/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6763253]

>more than half the library was either 5th-gen ports or ported to 5th-gen systems with little change in gameplay
What was its problem? Why was it trying so hard to be a PS1.5?

[Anonymous No.6763261]

>>6763253
Didn't have DVD playback and jumped the gun.

[Anonymous No.6763326]

>>6763253
You see a similar trait with early Genesis games (89-91). It launched when multi-platform games still targeted NES and home computers so it got a few "enhanced" ports of games that are very much 3rd-gen (i.e. Battletoads, Bart vs. the Space Mutants) before the 16 and eventually 32-bit sides of the competition heated up.
Dreamcast launched into a market where the PS1 was the choice console. It started to compete against PS2 with games like Dead or Alive 2 but it got cut early on.
I still wonder if it would have been able to pull off GTA III or Vice City.

[Anonymous No.6763330]

>>6763326
>I still wonder if it would have been able to pull off GTA III or Vice City
Probably not. Shenmue was handled in 3 disks, I really doubt GTA III or Vice City, let alone San Andreas, would fare well on that

[Anonymous No.6763340]

>>6763330
The DC was about as strong as the PS2, it probably could’ve done GTA3 on 2 discs

[Anonymous No.6763341]

>>6763330
Even keeping GTA III on one GD-ROM would be a challenge. It would require a lot of optimization and creative compression techniques.

[Anonymous No.6763363]

>>6763340
>The DC was about as strong as the PS2
Indeed it was. But GD-ROM wasn't going to help much as >>6763341 pointed out. So we would be looking at downgraded ports at best. Unless Sega couls create another disc format that the Dreamcast could read as GD ROM but supported more memory

[Anonymous No.6763372]

>>6763340
Not with that gimped storage format, pitiful color saturation, low poly counts and a fifth of the floating points, it wasn't.

[Anonymous No.6763376]

>>6763363
Looking online at the size of GTA3 around 1 GB from what I can tell, it could probably be done on 2 discs I would think with the change when you head to the other island. Maybe 3 at most but it could’ve been done

[Anonymous No.6763383]

According to this GTA 3 may actually have been a dreamcast exclusive had it stayed around. How the world could’ve changed

[Anonymous No.6763385]

>>6763376
We're talking about GTA 3 only. So even if it worked, San Andread would eventually hit the scene and make Dreamcast obsolete nonetheless. I don't really see a way out of this. GD-ROM was stupid

[Anonymous No.6763386]

>>6763340
No it wasn't. Though it often looks crisper through VGA than PS2's component, which cleans up quite poorly.

[Anonymous No.6763393]

>>6763385
Dreamcast would’ve been discontinued around 2004 I would assume. It probably could’ve ran VC too but yeah SA may have been too much, the PS2 struggled with it, hell even xbox has to work with it and the xbox was a monster

[Anonymous No.6763401]

>>6763386
No the power levels were comparable, but nobody ever really got a chance to max out the DC, while sony was able to max out the PS2 with GT4 and God of War 2

[Anonymous No.6763403]

6th gen power levels for anyone curious

DC<PS2<<GC<<<<Xbox

When accounting for power by generation standards, the xbox may be the most powerful console ever, that thing was retardedly powerful

[Anonymous No.6763409]

>>6763403
GC was held back by those retarded miniDVDs so while GC multiplats had crisper textures than the PS2 versions, they were often missing other things like lighting effects or had worse draw distances.

[Anonymous No.6763415]

It was simply doomed from start, wasn't it?
>>6763403
That motherfucker was so bad it still doesn't have good emulation, a total beast

[Anonymous No.6763416]

>>6763403
I love the original Xbox. It feels like an alternate universe PS2, which in a way, it was.

[Anonymous No.6763418]

>>6763416
It’s by far their best console imo and was when microsoft actually tried to have unique exclusive games and put some effort towards making them.

[Anonymous No.6763420]

>>6763415
Don't forget the PS2 has 6x more FLOPS

[Anonymous No.6763423]

>>6763409
When programmed right the GC had some stellar looking games, especially REmake, 0 and RE4, none of which are Nintendo games ironically. LoZ TP probably could’ve been done on PS2

[Anonymous No.6763431]

>xbox had a 733 MHz processor
Jesus Fuck

[Anonymous No.6763434]

>>6763420
God, Dreamcast is the doomer console or what?

[Anonymous No.6763482]

>>6763253
Because SEGA loves playing second fiddle in the console game. Always have, and never will again

[Anonymous No.6763503]

>>6763330
PC versions of those games takes less space than Shenmue I or II on Dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6763507]

>>6763409
GCN was more easy to program for, which resulted in generally better looking multiplats/ports. PS2 is theoretically more powerful, but devs could never really make full use of it. That was its biggest problem. It's nice to have good hardware, but when you can't really tap into it fully, what good is that?

[Anonymous No.6763540]

>>6763403
nah, the Xbox is second, the most powerful by far is the Neo-Geo
it is was so powerful relative to the competition that most simply dont bother grouping it with the rest of the 4th gen
The Xbox is still a beast though, thats true

[Anonymous No.6763543]

>>6763431
You do know that’s not the best metric when comparing anything, right?

[Anonymous No.6763564]

>>6763416
I feel like it was almost continuing the legacy of Sega. There were so many odd ball and unique games.

Man I love the PSX and Xbox libraries when they were new brands trying to establish themselves so much more than the PS2 and 360 libraries. That quirky uniqueness before standardization takes hold cant be matched.

[Anonymous No.6763567]

>>6763564
Steel battalion, that alone makes the xbox worth owning

[Anonymous No.6763715]

>>6763326
the ps2 is far more powerful than the dreamcast, but it's not very easy to make full use of it
the dreamcast may have at best been able to run some of the most basic ps2 games, but anything that really pushes the ps2 is totally out of the scope of the dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6763718]

>>6763415
this makes it look quite similar
but it totally obscures the fact the ps2's main cpu contains two vector units which boosts it's floating point power by a huge amount, the ps2's cpu totally destroys the dreamcast's with those included

[Anonymous No.6764770]

>>6763715
what gaem

[Anonymous No.6764778]

Sony and Microsoft ruined gaming.

[Anonymous No.6765592]

>>6763403
>When accounting for power by generation standards, the xbox may be the most powerful console ever, that thing was retardedly powerful
Yeah, that's a no. Xbox had shaders, but beyond that it wasn't that much more powerful than GCN.

[Anonanon No.6765606]

>>6763253
What first wave of a new console ISN'T just an enhanced version of the previous gen?

[Anonymous No.6765721]

>>6763253
Reminder that PSdouble ports of Dreamchad games have jaggies and are therefore inferior.

[Anonymous No.6765746]

>>6763253
Capcom wouldn't be Capcom they even ported it back to the ps1

[Anonymous No.6766031]

>>6765721
>plays Shenmue
What the fuck bros?!?!? I thought you said the dreamcast had no jaggies and better textures than the gaystation jew!!!!!1!!1!!!

[Anonymous No.6766473]

>>6764770
"Black"

[Anonymous No.6766564]

>>6763253
It died and came back as the Xbox.
Shares the same face button layout.
Two memory card slots in the controller.
Ran Microsoft code (Dreamcast was Windows CE compatible).
Most Dreamcast IPs went straight to Xbox (Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue, JSRF, etc.)
There was talk about making Xbox backward compatible with Dreamcast discs.

So the Dreamcast lives on as the Xbox line.
In fact, if you look back at how the PSX was supposed to be the next Nintendo, and how it's library was more of a continuation of the SNES library that the N64 (which went it's own weird direction), it's easy to see how the SNES vs Genesis war continues to this day under different company names.

[Anonymous No.6766989]

>>6766564
...holy shit that actually broke my balls

[Anonymous No.6767001]

>>6763503
PC versions don't need padding to enable seamless loading as they have HDDs

[Anonymous No.6767046]

>>6763415
>It was simply doomed from start, wasn't it?
Not really, it was really good at compressing textures and used tile-based deferred renderering, this allowed it to punch above its weight.

I mean, it's weaker than the PS2, but the difference is nowhere near Wii vs PS360 or Switch vs PS4 / XONE.

[Anonymous No.6767127]

>>6763503
Do I need a Steam Account to obtain the PC version of Shenmue 1 & 2?

[Anonymous No.6767203]

>>6763363
>Indeed it was
are you fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.6767216]

>>6767203
Yeah

[Anonymous No.6767479]

DC and PS2 aren't as close as people think, DC was a very strong hardware for 1998/1999 standards, but the PS2 was a powerhouse for a 2000 hardware. PS2 can actually keep up or even outclass the GC (2001 hardware) depending on what each hardware need to perform.

DC also has a polygon limit, if you wish you can make a PS2 game push like 8 million polygons or more (at the cost of other effects), but no matter what optimization you do on the DC (i.e. you can reduce the framerate, lightning effects, particle effects, texture quality, etc), it won't go past the 3 million (or so) mark because it's a per scene hard limit.

[Anonymous No.6767504]

>>6767479
It's often understated how far ahead of the curve the PS2 was. It was an interesting time where 3D hardware wasn't designed with a check list, but a vision instead. Often to address problems or shortcomings of the previous generation in obscure ways. The PS2 for example has an absurd fillrate. Things like transparencies and alpha effects which today still tank performance on modern GPUs and systems were basically free on the PS2. There's even a little known render farm based on the PS2 graphics technology called the GSCube. I think during the demo of it they were having it render toy story in real time 1080p60. I think this is where the toy story ps2 graphics rumor came from.

[Anonymous No.6767529]

>>6763253
>What was its problem? Why was it trying so hard to be a PS1.5?
Fifth gen 3d was often dodgy and could be improved massively by a little stronger specs. The PS2 also did this for a lot of fifth gen games.

There was no problem with all the fifth gen ports, that's what make it a decent console today. It was easy to do fifth gen ports on dreamcast, it didn't use up resources from doing new sixth gen games.

>>6767479
>>6767504
Sonycel garbage nonsense. PS2 was better than dreamcast, but not by much. There was a bigger gap between ps2 and xbox/gamecube than there was between dreamcast and ps2.

[Anonymous No.6767536]

>>6767529
Why are nincels trying this "attach -cel to everything" approach? It just doesn't work for them. They need better material.

[Anonymous No.6767547]

It came out pretty early, so a good many of the games on it followed 5th gen design philosophies and such, it literally lived at a time when people weren't fully ready to make 6th gen games.

[Anonymous No.6767579]

>>6767529
>The PS2 also did this for a lot of fifth gen games.
source? Most 5th-gen games weren't ported to the PS2 because of the PS1 BC. At the beginning though, some 6th-gen games still came out on both with the PS1 version being a gimped port for those who couldn't afford a PS2.
>There was no problem with all the fifth gen ports, that's what make it a decent console today.
It kinda robs the console of its own identity. Aside from some of the first party stuff it's pretty much the arcade/PS1/Windows port system.

[Anonymous No.6767591]

>>6767579
>It kinda robs the console of its own identity. Aside from some of the first party stuff it's pretty much the arcade/PS1/Windows port system.
Did you really just claim that having more great games, often the best version of the games, "robs the console of its own identity"?

By that logic if you took all the fifth gen ports out it'd be a better console because it'd have "its own identity". I can't get my head around how dumb that is or how tf anyone could even think that.

[Anonymous No.6767596]

>>6763253
The deamcast came out in Japan in 1998, but really the "next gen" of consoles didn't really begin till the PS2 came out in late 2001.
In many ways the DC is like gen 5.5. Way stronger then gen 5 consoles but much weaker then gen 6. In an awkward place just like the 3DO.
Still though, the DC is far the best "mid gen" console by a large margin.

[Anonymous No.6767646]

>>6767591
>Did you really just claim that having more great games, often the best version of the games, "robs the console of its own identity"?
Yes, because it does. These games were originally made for other platforms. Most PS2, Xbox and Gamecube games were made specifically FOR those systems, giving them their own unique identity. They created something new, not just enhancing what was already out. In comparison Dreamcast had very few original titles that were never ported to or from older platforms.
>I can't get my head around how dumb that is or how tf anyone could even think that.
It's called not being a memecast-simping segay on HRT.

[Anonymous No.6768919]

>>6767591
>Did you really just claim that having more great games, often the best version of the games, "robs the console of its own identity"?
>By that logic if you took all the fifth gen ports out it'd be a better console because it'd have "its own identity". I can't get my head around how dumb that is or how tf anyone could even think that.

[Anonymous No.6768929]

>>6767479
Dreamcast has infinitely better video quality than PS2. Playstation 2 is in a league all its own when it comes to shitty video output.

[Anonymous No.6768961]

>>6763403
Xbox phat was kino. I wish i could fix my disc drive

[Anonymous No.6768996]

>>6768929
Potential output quality =/= graphics.
On an SD CRT with the composite cables that came with each system, the PS2 blows the Dreamcast out of the water graphically.
It's like comparing a 13-year-old's painting of Van Gogh's Starry Night to the actual Starry Night. Being able to see the 15-year-old's drawing in a higher resolution doesn't make it better.

[Anonymous No.6769003]

If the Dreamcast survived long enough to get SoulCalibur II, who would the guest character be? Vyse? Gilius from Golden Axe? Someone from Phantasy Star?

[Anonymous No.6769039]

>>6768996
Not even composite can save you from the PS2 jaggies.

[Anonymous No.6769045]

>>6769039
>muh jaggies
Dreamcast has them too. Case in point: Shenmue.

[Anonymous No.6769047]

>>6769045
Playstation 2 has the most jaggy and shaky image out of all consoles to exist. Significantly worse than PS1 and Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.6769075]

>>6768929
Video quality output has nothing to do with actual in-game graphics, Sword of Sodan running on a Mega Drive with a RGB connection will look razor sharp in comparison to Legend of Mana running on a PlayStation with composite, yet we know which one is the stronger hardware and which game looks better.

[Anonymous No.6769098]

>>6769075
I'm not talking about that kind of video output. I mean the graphics in terms of anti aliasing and interlacing. Obviously PS2 can handle more polygons and shit but the graphics are all presented worse.

[Anonymous No.6769107]

@6769047
Shaky? Select launch titles, yes.
>significantly worse than PS1
pic very much related

[Anonymous No.6769113]

>>6769107
PS1 is mostly 240p, low res and aliased but less so than PS2.

[Anonymous No.6769129]

>>6769098
PS2 is ever so slightly jaggier and that's about it. And jaggies are an extremely minor graphical flaw that's either a meme or something only HRT-guzzling non-gamers care about. In any other graphical metric it destroys the dreamcast. Yes, that includes texture quality.

[Anonymous No.6769137]

>>6769129
>or something only HRT-guzzling non-gamers care about.
At this point you're looking like a toddler who just learned what HRT is

[Anonymous No.6769146]

>>6769137
I don't know the specifics of HRT as I'm not a tranny. I assume it's a kind of drink.

[Anonymous No.6769148]

>>6769146
>I don't know the specifics of HRT as I'm not a tranny
Really weird that you feel the need to specify that, anon... you wouldn't be projecting would you?

[Anonymous No.6769151]

>>6769129
>PS2 is ever so slightly jaggier and that's about it
Even end of generation titles like God of War 2 are jaggy as hell. It's a problem that is endemic to the console. The only other option some games give you is blurring the whole screen so hard the N64 would blush.
>And jaggies are an extremely minor graphical flaw that's either a meme or something only HRT-guzzling non-gamers care about.
Mega cope.

[Anonymous No.6769161]

>>6763423
REmake looks that good because they still used prerendered backgrounds so they could focus on character polygon count.

[Anonymous No.6769167]

@6769039
@6768929
>oh no! The edge of that polygon isn't a perfect straight line! It's unplayable ugly dogshit!

[Anonymous No.6769170]

>>6769098
PlayStation 2's AA was buggy and the hardware wasn't very good at progressive scan, but that's pretty much it. In terms of polygons/sec, lighting / translucency effects, particle effects, physics and math calculation in general, it's better than the Dreamcast by a good margin.

Even at texturing it's a good match, Dreamcast has very good texture compression capabilities, but one thing people don't know is the fact the PlayStation 2 doesn't necessarily uses its 4MB VRAM for textures (like the Dreamcast does with its 8MB VRAM), it can use its main RAM (32MB) for the job and transfer each texture from main memory to the video memory.

[Anonymous No.6769184]

>>6769170
>PlayStation 2's AA was buggy and the hardware wasn't very good at progressive scan
Yeah the image looks jaggy and shaky as hell like I said.
>>6769167
>so butthurt he goes full passive aggressive and doesn't even reply
>posts a -jak
Cry harder you sad pathetic creature.

[Anonymous No.6769186]

>>6769151
Lighting is more important than whether or not the edge of a polygon is a more or less straight line. In this area the PS2 steamrolls the memecast. Case in point: DOA2. The Dreamcast version has a more vibrant color palette and cleaner textures but almost no shading.

[Anonymous No.6769189]

>>6769167
>comes to discuss console hardware
>proven wrong
>"noooo how dare you talk shit about my consolerino, you are basedjak"

[Anonymous No.6769192]

@6769184
>>so butthurt he goes full passive aggressive and doesn't even reply
It's called not giving you a (You), fagtard.

[Anonymous No.6769195]

>>6769186
Have we reached a point where Sony fanboys are really going to pretend for even a second that the PS2 port of DOA2 was better?
>>6769192
That'll show em. You go girl.

[Anonymous No.6769205]

>>6769184
>Yeah the image looks jaggy and shaky as hell like I said.
It really doesn't outside a few games like early Namco offerings like Ridge Racer V and Tekken Tag.

[Anonymous No.6769214]

>>6769205
Even late generation games like GoW2 are still jaggy as hell. The picture quality of PS2 never looks as good as Dreamcast in VGA.

[Anonymous No.6769227]

>>6769003
Joe Musashi or one of the 3 main heroes from Golden Axe (Ax, Tyris and Gilius).

[Anonymous No.6769240]

>>6769214
Nobody's arguing the Dreamcast has superior alternative output options, but refer to the following to see why that's irrelevant: >>6769075
>>6768996

[Anonymous No.6769242]

>>6769240
It isn't irrelevant. The Playstation 2 looks worse in terms of image quality. Composite or not it looks jaggy and worse than Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.6769243]

>>6769205
Armored Core 2 is the only shaky looking one. The menus are physically painful to look at.
Ironically RR5 and TTT are some of the best-looking launch titles with the least visual issues.

[Anonymous No.6769250]

>>6769242
refer to>>6769167
@6769195
Thank you may I have another

[Anonymous No.6769259]

>>6769250
Nice excuses and strawmanning.

[Anonymous No.6769275]

@6769195
https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/04/06/dead-or-alive-2-ps2-vs-dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6769284]

@6769259
Thank you may I have another

[Anonymous No.6769289]

>>6769275
>says that anons are complaining too much about jaggies
>article complains about jaggies right away
Welldone, you are retarded. Also:
>taking journalists seriously
>ever

[Anonymous No.6769292]

>>6769275
>linking to braindead gaming journalists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2T4yokJUbs

[Anonymous No.6769305]

@6769289
>missing the forest for the trees
Also
>>taking journalists seriously
It's literally their job to decide if the majority of people would like a certain game. Why wouldn't I?

[Anonymous No.6769313]

>>6769305
>It's literally their job to decide if the majority of people would like a certain game. Why wouldn't I?

[Anonymous No.6769324]

>>6769305
The PS2 version looks like shit in comparison. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.6769334]

>>6769242
Yea sure,silent hill 2 and 3 looks so bad fuck the ps2 and hail dreamcast because muh aliasing.

[Anonymous No.6769337]

>>6763403
>talking about the xbox on /vr/
oooohhh jannnnnyyys

[Anonymous No.6769345]

>>6769292
The PS2 version still looks better. The Dreamcast version has no post-processing and the characters look extremely plasticky from the lack of shading. It doesn't even look like a finished product.
And the funniest thing is the PS2 version they used in the video is the one that was rushed out for the JAPANESE launch. That's the one regarded as bad.
Compare DOA2 on Dreamcast to DOA2 Hardcore (the one we actually got in the States) and there's really no contest.

[Anonymous No.6769351]

>>6769345
>Compare DOA2 on Dreamcast to DOA2 Hardcore (the one we actually got in the States) and there's really no contest.
Yeah the Dreamcast looks way better.

[Anonymous No.6769431]

>>6763403
This is objectively wrong. GC was easily the best, followed by Xbox, DC and then PS2. PS2 looks strong on paper, but incredibly brain dead design decisions make it inferior to even the Dreamcast
Sad.

[Anonymous No.6769449]

>>6769324
That video is captured incorrectly on the PS2 side. It shows 2 fields per frame, which is not how an interlaced signal is seen on a period CRT. The deinterlacers in capture devices and LCD s always make a mess of things.
Now the PS2 image would still be "jaggier" due to the lower effective resolution and it would bob slightly with static images, but it definitely wouldn't have that extreme smeary ghosting.

[Anonymous No.6769462]

>>6769351
This is your brain on segayism and HRT.
Truly a lethal combo.

[Anonymous No.6769562]

>>6769431
Lmao what.
Compare any of the best looking ps2 games and dreamcast games.
The dreamcast just inst any match for the ps2.
It could have never pulled off silent hill 3 or mgs3 (not 2 of both series they are just the best ones)

[Anonymous No.6769581]

>>6769167
I know you think you’re cool, withholding all those (You)s, but it just makes you look like a schizo, no one can see who your are responding to. Thanks for the jak tho.

[Anonymous No.6769614]

@6769581
How much seethe can one symbol make?

[Anonymous No.6769637]

>>6769313
>>It's literally their job to decide if the majority of people would like a certain game. Why wouldn't I?

[Anonymous No.6769935]

>>6769581
>>6769189
>>6769184
>jak
Here comes another

[Anonymous No.6769937]

>>6769935
Not retro. Now get out of my board you dirty normie reddit nigger cock sucker tranny

[Anonymous No.6772349]

DOA2 Hardcore is better than the memecast version, if you disagree please feel free to eat my ass.

[Anonymous No.6774129]

Is DoA2 (DC or PS2) still worth playing or the Ultimate version makes them obsolete?

[Anonymous No.6774259]

@6769937
Nice try asga-kun, but the PS2 is now officially retro. Check the sticky :)

[Anonymous No.6774270]

>>6774129
The ultimate version is soulless, PS2 is the best version that still looks soulful.

[Anonymous No.6774296]

>>6769337
>less than 24 hours later