/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6744648]

pixels or blur, /vr/?
https://www.strawpoll.me/20805844

[Anonymous No.6744698]

>>6744648
>another console war thread

[Anonymous No.6744706]

>>6744698
fpbp

[Anonymous No.6744809]

N64 games looked like shit
PS1 games were pixelated, but gave us some of the best looking games of the gen

[Anonymous No.6744810]

I retrospect, the blur was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.6744835]

>>6744648
>N64
shit games who cares.
>PS1
ePSXe with OpenGL enhancements and scanlines.

[Anonymous No.6744845]

>>6744809
PS1 games looked like shit
N64 games were blurred, but gave us some of the best looking games of the gen

[Anonymous No.6744851]

Without blur/AA you get tons of shimmering and dithering.

[Anonymous No.6744918]

Do we know what the views of the time were?

20 years later we can mostly say we prefer the crisp pixels. But in 96/97 did people like that the N64 didn't have shaking textures and wasn't super jaggy and pixelated?

Sure, it doesn't look great today but surely it was good at the time? Do we have any old forum posts or archived discussions or anything talking about it? I would assume that for early 3D the less jagged the better back then.

[Anonymous No.6744956]

>>6744918
I always thought the blur was apparent in retrospect after being accustomed to high res modern stuff. they were blurry but on a CRT i could still tell what i was looking at clearly when the texturework was good.

[Anonymous No.6745026]

>>6744918
>But in 96/97 did people like that the N64 didn't have shaking textures and wasn't super jaggy and pixelated?

[Anonymous No.6745049]

Blur, thanks.

[Anonymous No.6745187]

>>6744918
Liking pixelated visuals is very much a new age zoomerism from people who grew up with PSX.

[Anonymous No.6745193]

>>6744918
>Do we know what the views of the time were?
Yes, many of us were actually alive (and conscious) in 1996.
I had a PS1 first and I was more annoyed but its shaking textures and pixelated stuff, in comparison, the N64's blur seemed hi-tech.
But also you have to mind that we played N64 on CRT, not HD screens with stretched resolutions.

[Anonymous No.6745375]

>>6745187
>zoomerism
>from people who grew up with the psx
either you don't know how old the psx is, or you don't know how young zoomers are

[Anonymous No.6745389]

>>6745026
Kek, how could they possibly hope to fit Unreal onto N64 catridge. They couldn't port this game to PS1 for fuck's sake.

[Anonymous No.6745401]

>>6745389
autism

[Anonymous No.6745403]

>>6744918
>Do we know what the views of the time were?
I was a kid, but I was old enough to get a summer job right before the Dreamcast came out. Everyone I worked with knew how they felt about the PS1 and N64.

The answer is that N64 graphics were considered “cartoony.” I think that opinion comes from the lack of storage for textures, so N64 games were often flat-shaded or had very low detail.

So, you see, because all games looked blurry on CRTs of the 90s, it came down to how much detail could be loaded on the screen. The PS1 succeeded while the N64 failed.

[Anonymous No.6745408]

>>6744918
I had a PS1 and my brother an N64 (and we gamed on the family computer). Never did we really think about texture warp or blur as some big negative thing, even though neither was present on PC.
My friend circle was pretty much 50-50 split between PS1/N64 and neither of them complained either.

That said, as soon as the PS2 was released I could no longer play N64 without getting headaches.

[Anonymous No.6745609]

>>6745403
Total bullshit. N64 was "cartoony" cus PlayStation was marketed as the hip young adult system. And Nintendo was seen as cartoonish/childish with its Mario and Yoshi, Pokémon and Kirby games.

Exactly the same as why GameCube, Wii, switch is still called cartoony and childish.

[Anonymous No.6745616]

>>6745609
You're both right.

[Anonymous No.6745648]

>dude, I want my games to look like they were drawn in MS Paint. And wobble all over the screen like the game is about to fall apart
I will never understand people who laud PS grapihics. I mean, there were some games that got around the limitation, and ended up looking okay, but it was a pretty big hurdle.
And no, Vagrant Story doesn't look good.

[Anonymous No.6745662]

>>6745609
Which is kind of nonsense when you even peel back the layers a little bit. The Playsation had Spyro as a major icon, and the N64 had Goldeneye. Generally you want a console to have a good smattering of colourful and more realistic games, because that's variety.
But hey, who am I to argue with eight year olds in 1997?

[Anonymous No.6745664]

>>6745648
personally i don't really hate n64 graphics, in fact, i thought they looked pretty nice back when
it's only since learning about the systems' huge bottlenecks that makes me think it could have been so much better with just minor changes
the fact that people still are tossing up which has better graphics despite the n64 being ridiculously more powerful on paper just goes to show how bad those bottlenecks were

as for which is better? i don't think there is a winner, they're close enough that things overlap a lot, there are nice looking games on both sides, the real issue is that each system has unique games, so it makes no sense to pick one over the other, especially not now when you can just emulate them

[Anonymous No.6745673]

>>6745664
I would agree with that.

[Anonymous No.6745676]

>>6745648
frankly ray tracers looks better than every n64 game

[Anonymous No.6745691]

>>6745676
I don't know if that's a joke or not.

[Anonymous No.6745698]

>>6745691
name 1 n64 game with render to texture reflections

[Anonymous No.6745702]

>>6745662
The Normie view is the playStation is "cool" and "mature" and Nintendo is "childish"

It's been like this since the N64.

[Anonymous No.6745703]

>>6745698
It looks bad though.

[Anonymous No.6745706]

>>6745698
Name one N64 game with patented PlayStation texture wobble™

[Anonymous No.6745710]

>>6745703
Still can't name one game huh? What about one with time of day changes and shadow casting?

[Anonymous No.6745717]

>>6745710
You can have all of the meme features you like. It still looks bad.

[Anonymous No.6745718]

>>6745717
This but for N64 games and their janky filtering and blur on blur on blur rendering

[Anonymous No.6745726]

>>6745718
Soul

[Anonymous No.6745765]

N64 for 3d
Psx for 2d

[Anonymous No.6745767]

Fixed OP

[Anonymous No.6745768]

>>6744835
FF7 was the only top 20 game PS1 had

[Anonymous No.6745795]

>>6745609
Nope, it was the graphic style. First driven by technical limitations, and later by the “culture” of the platform.

You’re just not going to make an N64 horror game with characters that are gouraud-shaded polygons and/or 32x32 filtered sprites.

Yes, RE2 for N64 exists. Yes, it made serious compromises despite coming out years later. It’s an exception to the rule.

[Anonymous No.6745805]

>>6745767
Soul.

[Anonymous No.6745845]

>>6745795
You can definitely achieve some spooky things with the N64's particular aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.6745868]

>>6745698
It took me a moment to figure out what you were talking about. (First I had to remember that Ray Tracers was a game, thought you meant ray tracing... oops).
That doesn't look like render to texture, that looks like it's using the framebuffer as a texture. So instead of projecting a camera for each window and rendering the result it's taking the framebuffer results before certain details are rendered, and projecting that onto the windows. You can tell because only what you see on screen is reflected in the windows, and it's projected "through" the window such that when the car turns it's the wrong side of the framebuffer that's being used for the reflection.
It's a really cool hack, super fast, looks okay so long as you don't look too closely. The N64 could totally do that, in fact using the framebuffer as a texture was something the N64 did a lot of, much to the annoyance of emulator writers. But I can't think of any that used it for reflections.

[Anonymous No.6745881]

>>6745868
You're talking about the screen in Mario Kart, right?

[Anonymous No.6745886]

>>6745881
That's a good example. Other things like the jigsaw displays in banjo kazooie and the title screen wipe with the display breaking apart into jigsaw pieces.

[Anonymous No.6746159]

>>6745845
Would this be your first choice as a director?

[Anonymous No.6746178]

>>6745648
I never noticed texture and poly wobble in the 90s. I didn’t even know the PS1 had this issue until emulators began correcting it the last few years.

Acting like it’s some massive problem is extreme nonsense.

[Anonymous No.6746187]

>>6746178
And nobody knew the N64 was all that blurry when displayed on a 240p already blurry crt

[Anonymous No.6746369]

>>6744648
>only 29 votes
We really are a dead board, aren't we?

[Anonymous No.6746392]

>>6745662
It’s because of Nintendo’s limitations and demands they placed on third part developers

[Anonymous No.6746409]

The silent majority...turns out the n64 really IS unpopular. The vocal minority convinced me otherwise.

[Anonymous No.6746731]

>>6745795
>gouraud shading
awful stereotype based on and only based on Mario 64. I recall many more instances of gouraud shading on PS, namely FF7.

[Anonymous No.6746745]

>>6746409
>out of 30 people on the most vocally vehement sonyshills plucked from /v/
Yes, I too see the flaws of democracy.

[Anonymous No.6746749]

>>6746745
>anyone who disagrees with me is X
>Yes, I too see the flaws of democracy.
Same

[Anonymous No.6746818]

>>6745648
Vagrant Story looks awesome on an emulator with 8x internal resolution. You really have to see it to believe it. Looks like shit on real hardware.

[Anonymous No.6746826]

>>6745710
>What about one with time of day changes and shadow casting?
Ocarina of Time.

[Anonymous No.6746880]

>>6746818
Every old game does though

[Anonymous No.6746897]

>>6746880
Nah, Vagrant Story has really nice textures compared to other games, you just can't tell from the PS1's garbage rendering.

[Anonymous No.6746917]

>>6746187
I knew the textures were blurry and splotchy, but not that the overall image essentially had vaseline on it.

[Anonymous No.6746921]

>>6746731
90% of the graphics in FF7 were high-quality pre-renders, not flat shaded polygons. Anyway, Square stopped doing that immediately after FF7.

[Anonymous No.6746928]

>>6746897
This is endemic to all but the earliest PS1 titles. The PS1’s resolution was hiding tons of content that emulators reveal.

[Anonymous No.6747541]

>>6746921
And Clouds model? The iconic cloud? How did he look? How did ANYONE look that wasn't a pre-rendered image? Oh, right. A flat color

[Anonymous No.6747990]

>go to vote
>No N64 Pixels option

You're a fucking cunt, OP. You can disable the hardware blur with a switch, and you can disable the software blur with a gameshark, which also increases framerate. I do both. Fuck off

[Anonymous No.6748028]

>>6747990
Can you do this on emulators?

[Anonymous No.6748053]

>>6744809
God no. Games in the 5th gen were ugly as fuck, and I say that as someone who grew up with both 4th and 5th gen games.

SNES > Genesis >>>>>>>>> 5th gen consoles

[Anonymous No.6748074]

>>6745375
zoomers born in '96 constantly rave about 5th gen games. Same with zillennials born close to it. Most will talk shit about 4th gen games. Same rhetoric every time "duuuhhh there were only platformers on SNES snd Genesis. Nevermind all the shmups, beat 'em ups, the birth of fighting games, gallery shooters, racing games, etc."

[Anonymous No.6748159]

>>6748028
With retroarch and runahead you can reduce the lag so much you beat the game before you even start

[Anonymous No.6748186]

>>6747990
>and you can disable the software blur with a gameshark, which also increases framerate.
>disabling software blur increases framerate
I've never heard this before. Source?

[Anonymous No.6749043]

>>6747990
even if you could disable the texture filter, the textures are low resolution to begin with, there's no way to tweak the n64 to look as sharp as psx games

[Anonymous No.6749090]

>>6745768
>FF7 was the only top 20 game PS1 had
post muh sales figures.

[Anonymous No.6749101]

i thought ps1 but after thinking for a bit nintendo games looked better. I think the ps1 is a better console with better library but n64 games looked damn nice on CRTs

[Anonymous No.6749804]

>>6746187
> And nobody knew the N64 was all that blurry when displayed on a 240p already blurry crt
That is totally untrue, even on a 14inch crt N64 blur was plain as day, its absolutely hideous.

[Anonymous No.6749820]

>>6744648
>pixels or blur
blurels.
you know...blurry but still kinda blocky.