[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games

View post   
File: 20 KB, 320x289, 70718.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6730609 No.6730609 [Reply] [Original]

It's nice to be able to finally put this debate to rest. Not that there was any question for people who understand genres, there has still been confusion for some reason.

Here though finally we have official proof right from the horse's mouth. Hoping to find the original Link's Awakening or even LttP for download on the switch, they weren't there but I did notice something about how they categorize the remake.

>> No.6730618
File: 1.71 MB, 2851x2625, 20200817_015841~3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6730618

>>6730609
The remake is pretty much a direct port aside from the graphics and is a classic Zelda game. There you have it, categorized by Nintendo themselves not as an RPG, but as what it is an Action / Adventure game.

Thank you, good night.

>> No.6730625

....yeah? Isn't this obvious to everyone?

>> No.6730650

Who fucking cares what genre it is

>> No.6730673

>>6730625
You'd think so.

>>6730650
Some people vehemently want it to be an RPG. Pretty funny.

>> No.6730674

>>6730609
This has been known for literal decades and the question spread so fucking long even then it caught miyamotos attention in multiple interviews. To sum it up. He doesn't believe it to be an RPG just action/adventure with some RPG like elements. He goes as far as to say that the mindset of an RPG player who thinks of multiple options may benefit with battles vs straight to the point one type sword swing everything. This is why the hammer can also be used against the helmsaur king when originally it wasn't going to.

>> No.6730679

>>6730625
Yes. OP is autistic and didn't realize the "Zelda is an RPG" troll is a troll.

>> No.6730680

It's fun :)

>> No.6730704

>>6730609
Any game without turn-based combat is not an RPG. I don't care what anyone says to the contrary on that point. If you start counting games without turn-based combat then the label loses all meaning. It's not supposed to literally mean "any games where you play a role" because then all games would be RPGs. It's only called "RPG" because the genre is the video game adaptation of turn-based tabletop dice rolling RPGs.

>> No.6730707

>>6730704
Delete this

>> No.6730726

>>6730704
So Tales of Destiny, Elder Scrolls, Valkyrie Profile, FF12 etc aren't RPGs?

>> No.6730740

>>6730704
>kingdom hearts is not an RPG
An RPG is anything where the central character goes off into the world completing quests while gaining power or abilities.

>> No.6730746

>>6730740
That's every adventure game in existence. Not a good definition.

>> No.6730759

>>6730746
Adventure games are games with an interactive narrative where the gameplay emerges from the merging of puzzles and story.

>> No.6730762

>>6730740
This >>6730746 that defines adventure games much more than rpgs. It's part of why Zelda is the quintessential Action Adventure

>> No.6730769
File: 25 KB, 320x336, herosjourney.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6730769

>>6730740
That's called the monomyth. It's not specific to RPGs.

>> No.6730772

>>6730762
Action adventure != adventure

Zelda does not become more powerful from encountering the world so it's not an rpg.

>> No.6730775

>>6730769
That's not the monomyth at all though.

>> No.6730780

>>6730772
(Zelda isn't an rpg as main character doesn't become more powerful. This reads like Zelda doesn't become more powerful when I mean link doesn't )

>> No.6730784

>>6730772
Well exactly Action Adventure takes notes from different genres to make a new one.

>> No.6730785

>>6730772
>Zelda does not become more powerful from encountering the world so it's not an rpg.
Princess Zelda? She's not a playable character.
Link on the other hand definitely gets more powerful from encountering the world. He gains +1 to his health bar size after each dungeon boss is defeated. It's definitely not an RPG though. No turn-based combat.

>> No.6730789

>>6730775
It is. You described a genetic adventure, not an RPG.

>> No.6730790

>>6730785
The health mechanic is totally different. Crash Bandicoot also gains abilities in a similar fashion.
These don't come independent of the quests though, just from interacting with the world, which means they're not rpgs.

>> No.6730791

>>6730789
Now that's a decent Freudian slip

>> No.6730792

>>6730775
>>6730789
*generic
Although now I'm wondering what a genetic adventure would look like.

>> No.6730795

>>6730789
Nothing on that monomyth thing mentions gaining power and abilities from interacting with the world, which is what defines an rpg.
The monomyth is something completely different.

>> No.6730796

>>6730785
Turn based isn't why it's not an rpg, its the lack of experience by killing enemies that levels you up incrementally and the stat elements taken from table top rpgs. That's why they're called rpgs in the first place.

>> No.6730798

It's considered RPG in Japan, and adventure in the west.

>> No.6730804

>>6730795
>Nothing on that monomyth thing mentions gaining power and abilities from interacting with the world
No, it does. "Challenges" lead to "Transformation." That's really the heart of monomyth.

>> No.6730805

>>6730796
>That's why they're called rpgs in the first place.
I thought they were called RPGs because you assumed the role of a fictional character while playing them, not because of exp points.

>> No.6730806

>>6730795
You also gain powers and abilities from interacting with the world in Metroid.

>> No.6730809

>>6730704
I think any game with XP and build options is an RPG. Diablo is clearly an ARPG. Borderlands is an FPS/RPG hybrid. Mass Effect probably qualifies too. As would Strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem.

>> No.6730812

>>6730805
Well you thought wrong. It's because the genre started as computer versions of D&D and the like.

>> No.6730817

>>6730796
It's the turn-based combat part that's specific to tabletop games giving RPGs their genre name. Any random non-RPG video game can have experience based power increases and most adventure video games have stats like health bars or magic power. No non-RPG games have turn-based combat.

>> No.6730820

>>6730812
I mean RPGs in general, not just video game ones.

>> No.6730823

>>6730805
See:
>>6730704
>It's not supposed to literally mean "any games where you play a role" because then all games would be RPGs.

>> No.6730828

>>6730806
false

>> No.6730841

>>6730820
Hmm in that case sort of yes, but its the exp, stats, equipment and combat etc based around that that makes it a game instead of group storytelling. So when computer versions were made it's what they tried to simulate.

>>6730817
Civilization has turn based combat. Chess has turn based combat.

>> No.6730845

>>6730828
Of course you do. You explore and find power ups, kill enemies for energy.

>> No.6730848

>>6730704
This. If you say RPG most everyone is going to imagine selecting an attack out of a menu and then watching it happen.

>> No.6730856

>>6730841
>equipment
Zelda has this. Also has looting from enemies to buy more equipment/items.

>> No.6730858

>>6730845
>find power ups
Not interacting with the world

>> No.6730883
File: 110 KB, 381x261, civ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6730883

>>6730841
>Civilization has turn based combat.
It's OK to call the games in that series strategy/RPG.
>Chess has turn based combat.
Chess is an ancient RPG. You even have pawns evolving into better pokemon if they travel enough squares to reach the edge, and you have character classes like knights who can jump attack and bishops are basically magicians.

>> No.6730885

its an action RPG.
idk why people think turn-based RPGs are the only ones that exist

>> No.6730910

>>6730885
Because otherwise you make the definition too broad. If someone says they want me to check out this new RPG they like and I see it has no turn-based combat then I will conclude this someone is a dishonest weasel.

>> No.6730997

>>6730883
Chess is a strategy game.

>> No.6731027

There are so many varieties and edge cases, it's really hard to make a consistent definition that properly includes what should be included and excludes what should be excluded. Maybe the heart of an RPG is the player character (or characters) increasing different stats (plural) via experience (as opposed to items) regardless of whether there are experience points in the game. This excludes Zelda games other than Zelda II but includes atypical RPGs like Vagrant Story.

>> No.6731548

>>6730883
>It's OK to call the games in that series strategy/RPG.
>Chess is an RPG

You're retarded. Turn based isn't what makes something an rpg lol.

>> No.6731552

>people still think genres are real

>> No.6731575

>>6730883
The fact that I can't tell whether this is satire worries me.

>> No.6731576
File: 87 KB, 619x712, zeldarpg3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6731576

>>6730910
People already had an answer for you back in 1992.

>> No.6731579

>>6731576
Is this the "20 whole animes" of video games?

>> No.6731581

>>6730609
>>6730618
Nintendo knows Zelda is a Metroidvania, but that genre isn’t corporate-sounding enough.

>> No.6731589

>>6730673
>Some people vehemently want it to be an RPG.
And some don't even more vehemently, to the point of creating threads about it and taking snapshots of a fucking monitor.

>> No.6731590

>>6730805
That’s every game except Tetris

>> No.6731595

>>6731581
>Metroidvania
the fuck

>> No.6731604

>>6731576
Lol no.

>> No.6731610

>>6731589
The difference is that it's clearly not an RPG. He posted that because one of the main arguments the rpg people had was that Nintendo said it was an RPG.

>> No.6731640
File: 660 KB, 1440x1913, nintendo_fun_club_002_sum_87_001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6731640

>advanced role playing
right from the horse's mouth from Nintendo.

>> No.6731662
File: 634 KB, 1080x1920, Screenshot_2019-06-11-09-40-41.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6731662

>>6731640
That's from back when Nintendo didn't understand genres and didn't even recognize Action Adventure as a separate genre. Up until a couple of years ago they lumped all sorts of games under the RPG heading. Similarly they didn't recognize fighting games as it's own genre so for a long time Street Fighter was just listed as an action game. They finally joined the rest of the world.

>> No.6731712
File: 858 KB, 1645x2200, Electronic Gaming Monthly Issue 106 May 1998 page 001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6731712

>>6731662
What about everyone who wasn't Nintendo?

>> No.6731753

>>6731712
Also mistaken. It happens.

>> No.6731772

>>6731753
Maybe it's you who is wrong.

>> No.6731798

>>6731590
>That’s every game except Tetris
Exactly. "It's an RPG" fags want everything to be called an RPG. It's absolutely disgusting. Especially since you know they must know what they're doing is lying, yet they persist anyway because of some sick impulse to subvert and destroy language.

>> No.6731819

RPG is the worse label for video game genre. Simple basic it is a flawed definition, and everyone has their own definition. First rpg pnp was for wargamming, then it became a dungeon crawler, then the faggots thought it's storytelling and decided that rpg has to be about storytelling and so on. Which is why you have retarded people saying Wizardry and Ultima(the best examples of what is crpg) not being rpg because it's not like Fallout 1.

>> No.6731820

>>6731581
Zelda came out before Metroid so shouldn't Metroid be called a Zelda-like? Also Koji Igarashi said that TLoZ was the inspiration for SoTN, not Super Metroid like everyone likes to believe

>> No.6731852

>>6731772
I am not. It's clear cut and simple when you understand genres and what defines them.

>> No.6731864

>>6731819
>everyone has their own definition
I refuse to believe anyone doesn't think of selecting attacks out of a menu and watching them happen when the topic of RPG comes up. The idea of real time action RPGs is retarded.

>> No.6731868

>>6731864
>The idea of real time action RPGs is retarded.
Yet, baldur's gate, which is real time, is one of the most remembered crpg.

>> No.6731870

>>6731864
That's probably because you think Civilization is an RPG lol

>> No.6731878

>>6731868
Shhhhh you'll break his tiny brain.

>> No.6731879

>>6731868
Don't forget Y's and Dragon Slayer, Falcom classics of the RPG genre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq9-xp8yc80

>> No.6731961

>>6731820
>Koji Igarashi said that TLoZ was the inspiration for SoTN, not Super Metroid like everyone likes to believe
>map graphics ripped straight from Super Metroid
>SOTN literally has a fucking shinespark
I don't believe him.

>> No.6731979

>>6731798
I think a big factor is that what we would call an "adventure game" was once termed a "role playing game" by developers themselves because you have to assume the role of some character in a fantasy world for it to be a proper adventure or something. This is entirely divorced from what the term RPG now means to basically everyone.

>>6731864
That's what I think of first, but if you gain experience, levels, and/or stats, regardless of whether it's turned based, it's also an RPG in my eyes. Are Vagrant Story and Ys not RPGs?

>>6731961
If interviews and Q&A's have taught me anything, it's that most developers are full of shit.

>> No.6731987

>>6731961
It's very common in Japan to not want to talk about influences due to how the culture is. At least he acknowledged it at all, often when asked if a certain game was an influence even when it's plainly obvious it is the developer will claim to have never played or heard of it.

>> No.6731991

>>6731979
>I think a big factor is that what we would call an "adventure game" was once termed a "role playing game" by developers themselves because you have to assume the role

Only really in Japan. Adventure games were well established in the west and are all about that.

>> No.6731995

>>6731991
Western "adventure" games are nothing like Zelda though.

>> No.6732001

>>6731610
If Nintendo contradicts itself, how can you trust them on this?

>> No.6732010

>>6731995
That's because they're Action-Adventure not straight Adventure.

>>6732001
Because Nintendo resists change even knowing they were wrong. It took a while, but that they finally categorized it correctly is good.

It's the same with Street Fighter. It's not like anyone needed Nintendo's validation that fighting games are their own genre, but now that they're on board with the rest of the world it clears up possible confusion.

>> No.6732036

>>6732010
Some intern maintaining Nintendo of America's website put Zelda in category A instead of category B and the world had to change their opinion on what makes an RPG.

The next time Nintendo redesign their website, Zelda will be categorized as "RPG" and you autists will refuse to accept their Holy word this time.

>> No.6732051

>>6731979
>This is entirely divorced from what the term RPG now means to basically everyone.
Yes. That's the problem here. Anons trying to define RPG based on what they think the description means rather than recognizing it as a label associated with something a lot more specific that nobody without context would ever be able to infer from the description "role playing game" on its own.

>> No.6732059

Out of curiosity, are 3D games like Skyrim and the newer Fallouts RPGs to you guys ?

>> No.6732064

>>6732036
Any way you slice it understanding the various genres Zelda os a classically Action Adventure series and always has been. Then and now there will be people who don't understand genre definitions well and that's inevitable. Nintendo finally getting it will help though.

If for some reason you think Zelda is an RPG series as opposed to Action/Adventure I am sorry for you but the onus is on you to learn.

>> No.6732068

RPG Maker doesn't support non-turn fights unless you mod it in yourself. Because non-turn isn't really RPG to be honest with you families.

>> No.6732072
File: 35 KB, 539x446, zeldarpg2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6732072

>> No.6732083

>>6732068
>rpg maker is the marker
Ohh god lol

>> No.6732102
File: 20 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6732102

>>6732083
That's the formula most everyone thinks of when you say "RPG." Deal with it.

>> No.6732121

>>6732064
There is no solid definition of what an RPG is. It's like wanting to define music genres. Some music checks most of the marks of their given genre except one and some autist will argue that it can't be considered of this genre because it lacks a certain aspect, despite having all the other ones.

A video game genre is a vague description of what a video game is. If I didn't know Zelda and someone described it as an RPG or an action RPG, I would get the point and once I would have played it, that description would seem accurate enough.

>> No.6732124

>>6730609
"RPGs" without turn based combat are a lot like "vegetarian meat."

>> No.6732137

>>6732124
Fucking delicious and better?

>> No.6732153

>>6732124
you guys exist?
you're like those extremist amish people who don't bathe to be closer to god, except that your god is the RPG genre or something

>> No.6732532

>>6732068
I hope you're just baiting and not actually that stupid.

>> No.6733048

It's pretty abvious Zelda is an Action Adventure (not Action / Adventure)

Just like Secret of Mana, Soul Blazer, Terranigma and many others