/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.671675]

Repost from another thread because the discussion there was getting off-topic:

I kind of like the sentiment I read earlier of one disgruntled fellow, so I might rephrase it here:

Why is it called Metroidvania?

This implies that those large exploration Castlevania games are similar in design to Metroid games, which is not necessarily true. While both use large areas, Metroid always designs those areas with more purpose, rather than as essentially jumbled hallways with enemies inside. You might also say that both games do gradual character upgrades with new powerups and abilities, but strong differences exist there too. In Metroid the only means of upgrading and getting stronger is to explore and seek them out. Sometimes you will find bosses must be defeated, but in the end you are rewarded for your exploration. In those castlevania games, those upgrades are for the most part obtained through grinding and farming, whether they be levels, soul/weapon drops, etc. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does not speed the message of Metroid.

Instead of calling them 'Metroidvania', why not call them something more accurate? La-Mulana is somewhat similar and is called an Action/Exploration game. Why not apply the same label for castlevania games like Symphony of the Night and Aria of Sorrow? It certainly is a more accurate description.

Keep in mind that I love both types of CV game and intend no attack on those games. I merely wish to point this out and suggest a different title to describe this type of Castlevania game.

This post led to a discussion in which some brought up the need for reclassifying these types of games in general (and some other games and series) with new genre description. Call it semantics, but it seems a worthy topic of discussion and so I've made a new thread in which to discuss it.

Continue on gents.

[Anonymous No.671713]

>Instead of calling them 'Metroidvania', why not call them something more accurate?

Why?

[sage No.671707]

You straight up ruined another thread for this BS. This is the next "filter vs non-filter" scandal. Calling it.

[Anonymous No.671714]

Why are Metroid fans such fucking pedantics?

[Anonymous No.671717]

>>671675
Action/Exploration, eh? You mean like Tomb Raider?

That's the problem. Metroidvania at least brings up the right image, even if it's technically inaccurate or whatever.

Might as well argue over what constitutes an RPG.

[Anonymous No.671718]

I also support Action/Exploration. The only problem I see is it doesn't denote the RPG elements of the Castlevanias that fall within it.

>>671681
>Too often I see people simply having to call games 'Zelda clones' or 'Zelda-like' but never a real genre. It seems we might want to discuss this.
I also think Zelda clones are in need of a better term. I think action/adventure fits them nicely, though it typically doesn't denote the puzzle-solving aspects. And, really, there are relatively few games that really play like Zelda. There's Okami, Landstalker, Alundra, Beyond Oasis, and Beyond Good & Evil, but they're by no means the majority of the greater action/adventure genre.

>>671713
Because it's inaccurate.

[Anonymous No.671724]

>>671717
Call it a 2D exploration platformer. Problem solved.

[Anonymous No.671721]

inb4 turbonerd op gets butthurt and starting claiming it was all a troll

[Anonymous No.671725]

>>671718
Ok, fair enough.

In all seriousness, who cares? Why should you, I, or anyone else care?

[Anonymous No.671729]

>>671724
Oh, like Mario. Or Popful Mail.

[Anonymous No.671730]

>>671718
The RPG elements aren't even present that much in the genre and don't need special mention or consideration. Even when they are present they are often extremely minor.

[Anonymous No.671734]

>>671725
>Yeah, it's wrong, but who cares? Why try and choose something better?
Because we can do better.

[Anonymous No.671736]

>>671729
>Mario
>exploration
Stop it.

[Anonymous No.671737]

>>671729
Well, if you want to look at it that way, there are castlevanias that are nothing like metroid or sotn either.

[Anonymous No.671742]

>>671736
He's right though. There is exploration in mario. Then again, every game has exploration in some degree.

[Anonymous No.671739]

>>671736
Pipes.

[Anonymous No.671741]

>>671734
Doing better implies that something was wrong to begin with.

Convince me that this line of reasoning isn't simply semantic bullshit and even needs to be hashed out in the first place.

[Anonymous No.671745]

I thought you didn't post on here, Egoraptor.

[Anonymous No.671754]

>>671741
There are 28 main Castlevania games. Only 7 of them play similarly to Metroid. 75% of all Castlevania games released to not fit the "Metroidvania" descriptor. Hence the "vania" should be removed, and the genre should either be called "Metroidlike", or a new term should be invented.

[sage No.671758]

>>671741

Because, you stupid piece of shit, Castlevania isn't like metroid. Most of the fucking games are action platformers are best. So why should we use this outdated, awkward, and misleading term then? Oh, what, you got some shit in your mouth and can't speak now? That's what I thought you fucking moron. Try thinking about the ramifications of calling it "metroidvania" before spouting out your BS. We NEED to clarify this genre. Simple as that. Accept it so we can move on to picking a more apt genre name like Action/Adventure/RPG Exploration.

[Anonymous No.671770]

>>671721
>671721
no need, mate. It's not a troll, I just saw someone else ask the question and decided to ask it as well. Then the thread it was asked in went to shit, and from other's posts I realized that I had fucked up and opened a can of worms in some poor OP's thread. Thus I decided to take it to a new thread where this could be discussed as on-topic, and to (as of a moment ago) apologize to the OP for ruining his thread.

Again, I am sorry for opening that can of worms, I didn't realize it would explode like it did. However, it was good impetus to start this thread and hopefully avoid this kind of conflict leaking into other topics.

[Anonymous No.671771]

>>671758
Whoa, there. Problems at home? We can't help you, man.

[Anonymous No.671767]

>>671754

The "Metroidvania" descriptor has been around for a long while, and everyone knows what you mean when you use it.

While your statistics might be correct, I'm still not convinced this is enough to warrant changing an old term that hasn't caused any issues thus far.

[Anonymous No.671773]

I know exactly what you mean OP. It's just like with the term RPG.

>not all JRPGs are made in Japan
>not all WRPGs are made in the west
>not all RPGs have numerical stats
>not all RPGs have you playing a role
>yet everyone always seem to know what I am talking about when I use those terms.
Except people with mental disabilities

[Anonymous No.671775]

>>671758
Do you even troll?

[Anonymous No.671774]

>>671739
PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPES

[Anonymous No.671783]

>>671773

das it mane

[Anonymous No.671787]

Metroid Prime is an FPS

[Anonymous No.671792]

>>671742
I would say that Mario is not AS much of an exploration game, because while there is some exploration to it, it is not at the core of the game like it is inside of Metroid games.

This is mostly directed at games like SMB1. Games like Mario 64 are definitely more of exploration games than those 2D Marios.

For that point, perhaps Mario is another game that at times fits the 'Adventure' genre idea brought up earlier. Perhaps even Mario is best described as an Adventure-Platformer, or Platforming Adventure?

[Anonymous No.671794]

>>671767
The issue is that Castlevania has now abandoned that style of play and undergone a series reboot. Moving forward, if someone who is only familiar with the Lords of Shadow games (or the NES games or PS2 hack and slashes, even) sees "Metroidvania" and hasn't played a Metroid, he's going to purchase games that use the descriptor expecting a wildly different genre than what it is. As we move forward, this term is only going to cause confusion and it should be abandoned.

It's been used for a long while because for a long while, Castlevania games used a similar style of progression as Metroid games. Those days are over, and a new term needs to be made.

[Anonymous No.671796]

>>671758

[Anonymous No.671805]

>>671773
>not all JRPGs are made in Japan
False.

>not all WRPGS are made in the west
False.

>not all RPGs have numerical stats
True.

>not all RPGs have you playing a role
False.

JRPG as a genre descriptor is another term I absolutely cannot stand. It's a regional descriptor, it says absolutely nothing about gameplay.

[Anonymous No.671806]

>>671758
damn man, chill out. We won't get anywhere in this discussion if you just freak out on people.

[Anonymous No.671815]

>>671773
Let's save that mess for another thread, shall we? It's way muddier than 'metroidvania' could ever be.

[Anonymous No.671814]

>>671794
>As we move forward, this term is only going to cause confusion and it should be abandoned.

This is speculation at best.

Let's say it's true, though. 100%. Wouldn't the best course just be to let it ride out and have a new and arguably more accurate term occur naturally?

[Anonymous No.671818]

>>671792
>Perhaps even Mario is best described as an Adventure-Platformer, or Platforming Adventure?
I highly disagree. While there is some degree of exploration in the 3D Mario titles, most of it stems from completing a specific objective. The goal is to collect a certain object, and you must complete a very specific objective to be rewarded for it. Levels are broken up into multiple objectives that you choose from a screen prior to entering, and though some can be done out of order, it's essentially just providing a different set of obstacles for the same area.

It's not really comparable to a proper action/adventure or a game like Metroid where exploration is the main focus. It's more a symptom of being able to maneuver in three-dimensional space.

[Anonymous No.671827]

>>671805

You forgot the last one though.

>yet everyone always understands what is meant with those terms
>except people with mental disabilities
true.

Were you dropped on your head as a child or did your social retardation slowly set in due to a sheltered childhood?

[Anonymous No.671824]

>this thread

Can you guys keep this stupid aspie bullshit to /v/?

[Anonymous No.671829]

>>671815
The JRPG and WRPG distinction is clear as day, actually. It's either made in Japan or it's made in the West.

[Anonymous No.671834]

>>671824

But then the OP couldn't be a leet leegon le troll lulz.

[Anonymous No.671842]

>>671827
When did you stop raping your father?

[Anonymous No.671845]

>>671824

It's just spillover from /v/. We get too easily trolled being such a slow board. Just report and move on, this thread will be gone in minutes.

If there is one thing I'm thankful for on /vr/ it's moderation. Of course a slow board is so much easier to moderate.

[Anonymous No.671847]

>>671834

Yeah, he'd just be a typical /v/tard

[Anonymous No.671859]

>>671814
I don't feel that such a laissez-faire attitude is accurate. After all, the development of metroidvania occurred not online an internet joke's development, and now that this thread is up it seems to show that it was a poor development overall. If anything a concerted effort here would allow a more appropriate outcome than simply letting it develop on its own.

[Anonymous No.671858]

>>671847

Sad how the /v/tards still can't deal with the fact that people walked away from "muh /v/ culture" when /vr/ was created.

"How dare you not like our sad hateboner circlejerk bullshit?"

OP is a prime example. Gotta come here to continue the drama. Can't let anyone escape.

[Anonymous No.671861]

>>671845
>>671847
>I equate anything I don't like to think about with trolling
>I equate anyone who brings up anything I don't like to think about with /v/
>Thinking is hard, why can't you just accept this inaccurate term and stop thinking!

God forbid someone bring up legitimate facts and reasons as to why such a term is inaccurate and want to discuss its merit amongst peers.

You fucking anti-intellectual, willfully ignorant assholes are the real problem here.

[Anonymous No.671869]

>>671818
Perhaps so, I was thinking that being able to sequence-break was an aspect of the exploration, but really this doesn't 'reward' you in any way, or at least the game doesn't seem designed to reward you for it. A fair point made, I agree.

[Anonymous No.671872]

Have any of you played a game called The Divide: Enemies Within? Was it any good?

I remember reading about it in EGM before it (or Symphony of the Night, for that matter) came out, but never played it. It was described as a 3D take on Metroid.

[Anonymous No.671874]

>>671814
One doesn't adopt an entirely new term and change the way he thinks about an entire genre "naturally". If left untended, "Metroidvania" will just continue into oblivion and not hold a single ounce of accuracy at all. People need to be shown why it's inaccurate and why they should stop using it.

[Anonymous No.671876]

>>671861

The only thing anti-intellectual is some arrogant prick who thinks he has any business contesting a term used to describe certain types of games for ages, which the majority has no probelm understanding.

[Anonymous No.671882]

>>671861

Hey, OP. Step away from the computer, take a deep breath, and look at what menial bullshit has got you so worked up. You're complaining about a colloquialism on an imageboard. Go outside or something. If you still feel this upset, I recommend talking to a doctor because this mentality is unhealthy, and you could have serious problems.

[Anonymous No.671883]

>>671771
>>671775

Oh, what, because I use harsh language I'm a fucking troll? Get over it you troglodytes. Honestly, if you think "metroidvania" is still a valid term in this day and age then I would suggest YOU are trolls. As a species, we evolve all the fucking time. Remember back to ancient man in the late 1800's. How they didn't even understand what a TV was. We evolved the need for TV and as such, we need to evolved the need to abandon the "metroidvania" term. Castlevania is essentially dead and at this point but, regardless, it'd be better if it clarified the God of War genre. Like, Hack-and-Slashvanias. Do you see what I'm saying now? Metroidvania is over. At least call it metroid-like or Action/Adventure/RPG Exploration like I suggested before.

[Anonymous No.671891]

>>671675

Except you're wrong, many upgrades are obtained by grabbing them from certain places/after defeating certain bosses, and I don't even know what you're on about with the corridor thing.

[Anonymous No.671886]

>>671876
>The only thing anti-intellectual is analyzing and scrutinizing a term that has long been in use and realizing that it is outdated and inaccurate
I don't think you understand words, Anon.

[Anonymous No.671892]

>>671874

>guys! stop calling it indie rock!
>not all of these bands are even independent!

[Anonymous No.671893]

I totally agree with you, dude. Metroid and Castlevania both have exploration and a large map, but are completely different in terms of design.

[Anonymous No.671897]

>>671883

Sure kid. You are the next step in the evolution of our species.

Congrats. I see a bright future ahead of us.

[Anonymous No.671902]

>>671858
OP here, what's with all the hate? I just wanted to ask a simple question that seemed intriguing to me. I'm not going around telling people that they're wrong and trying to get people mad, I just want to talk about this, and apparently so do other people because this thread is pretty active right now (well, minus the people just saying that I'm /v/ cancer).

I'm only here because I wanted to have a simple, calm discussion with my fellow gaming fans about something interesting to me in video games. If you think that I am in the wrong for that, then by all means, feel free to believe that because that's your right. But please don't continue to do nothing but post hateful comments and blunt character attacks, because by doing so you are bumping and cultivating the same kind of broken posting behavior that has already destroyed /v/.

[Anonymous No.671901]

>>671882
>I don't think about this or care about this this much
>Therefore, anyone who thinks about it or cares about it more than me is abnormal and has some sort of mental defect!
More anti-intellectual drivel. I have given you facts as to why the Castlevania series is not representative of the same type of gameplay as Metroid, and thus why the term Metroidvania makes no sense. You're the one choosing to be ignorant to it for no reason other than it has been in use for a certain amount of time.

[Anonymous No.671904]

>>671902
damn, meant to sage that. My apologies for my poor form.

[Anonymous No.671913]

ITT: trolls trolling trolls.

Feels like home again.

[Anonymous No.671908]

>>671861

But you haven't bought up any legitimate facts or reasons. You've offered personal opinions and some rather skewed future scenarios, nothing more.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that most people don't have an issue with this term, and most people simply don't think it should be changed.

People who don't see the value in your issue aren't anti-intellectual, and using the term makes you look like a pseudo-intellectual hipster douchebag.

You're like that dude with the Macbook at Starbucks making sure everyone can see you "working" on "important" shit in public.

Don't be that guy.

[Anonymous No.671909]

>>671892
Actually, that's true as well. Indie rock says jack shit about how a band sounds.

[Anonymous No.671917]

>>671902

Amen brother. I'm sick of all of these children coming in and disagreeing with us. We should be calmly discussing only why we're right instead of reason why we're wrong.

[Anonymous No.671918]

>>671901

Could you be more of an underage troll if you tried?

Show over folks, abandon ship, let this baby sink to the depths.

[Anonymous No.671924]

>>671908
I have brought up the fact that the vast majority of the Castlevania series does not play similarly to Metroid.

I have brought up the fact that the Castlevania series has since abandoned this type of play and has been rebooted in the Lords of Shadow line.

Neither of these are a matter of opinion. They are absolute fact and cannot be refuted.

[Anonymous No.671928]

>>671901
>>>/v/

This board is about videogames.

[Anonymous No.671929]

>>671859
>>671861
>>671874
>>671876
>>671883
>>671897
>>671901
>>671902

samefag

just making this clear

carry on

[Anonymous No.671932]

>>671924

But no one calls those games Metroidvanias. What does that have to do with anything?

[Anonymous No.671936]

>>671924

The part you're missing is that the "vania" in "metroidvania" does not refer to the castlevania series as a whole. It simply referes to those games which share incredibly similarity to metroid. This is where your argument is flawed.

[Anonymous No.671940]

>>671924

I don't remember anyone contesting those facts.

What I do remember are people asking why a term that has caused no issues or confusion necessitates a change? I also recall a lot of "why?" getting thrown around.

You didn't miss these, did you?

[Anonymous No.671942]

>>671929

I'm only 3 of those. Don't know how you can be so short-sighted honestly.

[Anonymous No.671953]

>>671929

[Anonymous No.671948]

>>671918
>LEL OMG IF I SAY YOU ARE A TROLL ENOUGH THEN YOU WILL BECOME A TROLL IF I IGNORE YOU HARD ENOUGH IT'S LIKE YOU AREN'T SAYING ANYTHING IF I SAY YOU DON'T HAVE A POINT HARD ENOUGH THEN IT'S LIKE I DON'T HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE POINTS YOU MAKE IF I BE AN IGNORANT FUCKING ASSHOLE AS NARROW-MINDED AND STUBBORN AS I POSSIBLY CAN BE YOU WILL BE MAGICALLY WRONG AND I WON'T HAVE TO CONSIDER A FUCKING WORD YOU SAY AND YOU WILL BE THE "TROLL" I WANT YOU TO BE SO DESPERATELY YOU TROLL! TROLL! XDDDDDDDDD
I haven't been this legitimately mad in so fucking long. Jesus fucking Christ man, what goddamn black, shit-filled hole do you people spawn from, and how the hell can I plug it up?

[Anonymous No.671957]

Well, since exploration is pretty much the basis for these games, let's use that as a base. Are newer Metroidvanias still labyrinthian in their construction? I haven't played Cave Story or anything newer.

How about Labyrinthians? Or Explorathons, due to their constant and lengthy quest for finding new items to further the game? Something like that.

[Anonymous No.671958]

>>671948
>and how the hell can I plug it up?

I can help you with at least this much.

Stop coming to /vr/. Problem solved.

[Anonymous No.671960]

>>671845
>slow board
That's not it. Every board has buttons to push but /vr/ takes the bait every fucking time. No matter how dumb, short, or obvious a shitpost is, it'll get replies. It's unbelievable.

[Anonymous No.671961]

>>671953
Paint is hard.

[Anonymous No.671968]

>>671936
That's wrong though. Gaming journalism at large uses the term to describe any game that plays like Metroid. The "vania" is inaccurate when applying it to these games. I can provide you examples if necessary.

>>671940
I gave you the why, moving forward the "vania" part of the term will do nothing but cause confusion, because the name Castlevania isn't associated with that type of gameplay anymore.

[Anonymous No.671975]

>>671968
Except that the "vania" isn't moving forward. That's one of the key problems I have with your position.

[Anonymous No.671980]

Linking this thread to /sp/ really riled things up didn't it OP.

[Anonymous No.671985]

>>671961
Not him.

[OP No.671982]

>>671929
OP here, I guess I need a tripcode now to demonstrate that I am OP, but here's a picture from my computer. I guess I'm not all of them, but more like the pieces of bread to a sandwich.

Also gotta say, I'm really disappointed by this thread. I expected much better behavior from all of the folks involved, but it looks like people just want to yell at each other instead of actually discuss things reasonably. I had hoped you would do better on this /vr/, but it's not too late, so please, for the sake of this thread and this board's quality in general, stop being unreasonable or just generally uncooperative, and try to do this properly.

[Anonymous No.671989]

>>671961

See>>671982

The amount of fucking retardation,

[Anonymous No.671991]

>>671975
>the "vania" isn't moving forward
There hasn't been a Castlevania that fits the term since Order of Ecclesia, yet gaming sites at large are still applying it to tons of new games. Like I said, I can link you to examples if you want.

[Anonymous No.671993]

Names are names dude. You think RPG or Moba are any good? Just roll with it. It's culture.

[Anonymous No.671994]

>>671968
my post
>The part you're missing is that the "vania" in "metroidvania" does not refer to the castlevania series as a whole. It simply referes to those games which share incredibly similarity to metroid.

your reply
>That's wrong though. Gaming journalism at large uses the term to describe any game that plays like Metroid. The "vania" is inaccurate when applying it to these games. I can provide you examples if necessary.

You just made a non-sensical reply. I also doubt you could give me an example of when the term "metroidvania" was used to describe a game that is similar to metroid and SotN but with the author's intent to imply that the "vania" portion of "metroidvania" refers to castlevania games that aren't like SotN.

That was hard to type but that is what you replied to me with. "vania" only refers to castlevania games like SotN. The end.

[OP !gy.7yNYTkw No.671995]

>>671982
My bad, I fucked up. I don't remember the last time I had to make a tripcode for anything.