/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6674846]

Love it or hate it, a CRT connected via composite is how game designers intended for their art to be displayed.

[Anonymous No.6674852]

What about PC game devs?

[Anonymous No.6674862]

Ewwwww. Rca is cheapo scart.

[Anonymous No.6674865]

SOUL

>>6674852
fuck off tranny

[Anonymous No.6674870]

>>6674846
Zoomer.

[Anonymous No.6674872]

>>6674865
no way fag

[Anonymous No.6674923]

>>6674846
No.

[Anonymous No.6674969]

>>6674852
VGA > DVI > HDMI.

[Anonymous No.6675009]

>>6674870
That wraps around past SOUL and straight into just plain shit

[Anonymous No.6675049]

>>6674846
Imagine being this butthurt that there are people enjoying superior RGB.

InB4 green text with pic of MLIG guy

[Anonymous No.6675371]

>By the 90s, RGB was normal everyday shit in Japan and Europe
>Americans think it's witchcraft

[Anonymous No.6675376]

is there any data to support this claim? or is it one of those soully feely things

[Anonymous No.6675383]

the designers intended for you to shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.6675454]

>>6675371
AMERICUNTS HAVE COMPONENT =RGB
YOU DUMB FUCK LOL!

[Anonymous No.6675468]

>>6675454
How many people had RGB-to-component transcoders in the '90s, or even knew it was possible?

[Anonymous No.6675482]

>>6675468
i purchased one in 2001

[Anonymous No.6675484]

>>6674846
stop calling video games art, artfag.

[Anonymous No.6675486]

I'll never understand why /vr/gins fixate on something as inane as the video cables used to hook up to the TV.

[Anonymous No.6675496]

Oh yeah, fucking beatiful.

[Anonymous No.6675517]

Why yes I do use RF and a consumer TV from the early 80s how could you know?

[Anonymous No.6675523]

>>6675486
Why wouldn't you want to hook up your console via the best possible method to reduce how much the cable crapifies it between the PPU generating the image and it getting to the TV display?

[Anonymous No.6675530]

>>6675383
I like you.

[Anonymous No.6675531]

>>6675482
Same but he specifically said 90s.

[Anonymous No.6675537]

>>6674846
You should spend less time coping on 4channel, and more time looking for an RGB-capable TV, muttboy

[Anonymous No.6675559]

>>6674969
That's funny, I don't have any of those ports on my PC.

[Anonymous No.6675565]

>>6675523
because the differences are so minuscule that you'd have to be some kind of super autist to have strong opinions about this.

[Anonymous No.6675645]

>>6675565
Maybe on the upper end of it like HDMI conversions/mememeisters/etc, but RF to composite is a huge difference, then S video is better and component is the best without spending an assload for minute upgrades. I'd say composite is the minimum you should run, but you should aim for S video as it doesn't cost much more to get cables for.

[Anonymous No.6675768]

>>6675645
Where can I get an S-Video cable for my Genesis?

[Anonymous No.6675789]

>>6674846
So why does almost every console allow scart (with RGB) than?

[Anonymous No.6675802]

>>6675768
https://console5.com/store/cxa1145-s-video-and-composite-video-mod-pcb.html
Requires soldering. Genesis does output RGB natively though, so if your TV has component inputs you should buy this instead.
https://www.retrorgb.com/genesisrgbcables.html

[Anonymous No.6675951]

>>6674846
aw shit here we go again

[Anonymous No.6676074]

>>6674846
Even the Dreamcast? Seriously?

[Anonymous No.6676089]

>>6675383
to expand a bit on my shitpost, the designers intended for you to play the damned game, not argue about the best way to hook the console to your TV 30 years later

[Anonymous No.6676101]

>>6675371
Most Japanese consoles in the 90s still used composite.

[Anonymous No.6676117]

>>6676101
SFC, Mega Drive and Master System support RGB out of the box.

The PC Engine and the Famicom were originally RF only.

[Anonymous No.6676123]

>>6676101
Everything supported composite, but the most popular 90s consoles (Super Famicom and Playstation) were commonly hooked up with the official RGB cables. RGB wasn't something obscure.

[Anonymous No.6676143]

>>6675454
Or just plain RGB. RGB monitors for computers began to appear on the market in the 80s. And yes, I do mean analog, 15kHz RGB. You might have needed to make your own cables for your consoles or mail-order them, but RGB was very much a thing in North America. Remember, SCART ≠ RGB.

[Anonymous No.6676163]

>>6676143
>Scart = RGB

Not always, some TVs and Monitors only supported composite via scart. You can get unofficial composite cables via scart for the PCE Engine.

I remember that Commodore Monitors supported RGB, back in the day.

[Anonymous No.6676165]

>>6676101
You mean people, consoles don't have a will of their own

[Anonymous No.6676171]

>>6676123
>RGB wasn't something obscure.
Maybe not in the Japanese or European market, but it definitely was in the North American market.

[Anonymous No.6676193]

>>6676163
You misread his post.

[Anonymous No.6676238]

>>6676193
No I didn't, I'm lonely and need attention. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.6676305]

>>6676171
Meant in Japan, yeah. (Was a reply to >>6676101)

[Anonymous No.6676396]

>>6674846
But the Famicom didn't even have composite.

[Anonymous No.6676476]

>>6674846
Only on some Mega Drive games, the pixels were actually made to blend with composite. I don't think any snes and other consoles games did that at all though.

[Anonymous No.6676481]

>>6675559
you're missing out on the 256 colors revolution then.

[Anonymous No.6676545]

>>6674846
The developers most likely worked with VGA monitors, and magazines typically used RGB for screenshots, even for the NES. The fact that SNES games get stretched horizontally on consumer CRTs is proof that you're wrong. Not saying 8:7 is superior, I prefer 4:3, but it still proves that you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.6676557]

>>6676545
That picture is wrong. On a CRT the ovals should have a ratio of 8:7.

[Anonymous No.6676574]

>>6676557
Do I need to photograph my SNES running Yoshi's Island on my PVM now? Because SNES games on CRT are stretched bruh.

[Anonymous No.6676619]

>>6676545
>The developers most likely worked with VGA monitors, and magazines typically used RGB for screenshots
Where and how something is made means nothing. Their end target was consumer televisions probably through a RF or composite connection because that's what 99.9% of their customers had. Most consoles didn't even offer any RGB options.

>The fact that SNES games get stretched horizontally on consumer CRTs is proof that you're wrong
I don't follow that logic. Nintendo and developers knew what the SNES would look like on a consumer TV. They wouldn't expect anybody to to be playing at 8:7.

[Anonymous No.6676629]

>>6676557
I want to apologize.

[Anonymous No.6676649]

>>6676545
>>6676557
>VGA monitors,
that don't make sense. the common ratios for VGA monitors were 4:3 as well. 640X480, 800X600, 1024X768, 1600X1200.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_aspect_ratio#4:3,_5:4_and_16:10

[Anonymous No.6676672]

>>6676574
>>6676629
You were right, they are stretched, just not by that much. Like I said, they should have a ratio of 8:7, because that's the pixel aspect ratio of the SNES. The overall aspect ratio of the entire 256x224 frame is therefore 256/224*8/7=64:49.

[Anonymous No.6676687]

>>6675371
We had those same rgb crt tv models but we just never had a proper connector to connect rgb to. They literally gave them to us with the port stripped out from the mother board or through a component in which transcoded the signal into rgb so the tv could read it. It wasn't until people got their hands on rgb-to-comp transcoders then we finally were able to access it. Or if you were smart you'd just solder a rgb port into the empty slot on the crt tv's motherboard.

[Anonymous No.6676701]

>>6674870
Extreme soul

[Anonymous No.6676708]

>>6676123
Revisionist history from someone who couldn’t be more removed from Japanese trends. Support doesn’t mean commonly used. They came packed with composite cables just like the west. Also, RGB was dropped from N64 because it was not a popular method of connection in Japan.

[Anonymous No.6676718]

>>6675802
There is a s-video adapter by micomsoft for megadrive

[Anonymous No.6676727]

>>6676718
It's 400 dollars, imagine paying 400 for S-video when RGB is cheaper.

[Anonymous No.6676765]

>>6676718
Genesis doesn't put out S video from the DIN port without modifications. You're getting something else converted into S video with that.

[Anonymous No.6676779]

>>6675049
Nice digital processing on that HD set my dear faggot

[Anonymous No.6676781]

>>6676718
I just looked it up and it's not worth it imo. It takes the rgb signal and down samples it to s-video or it can transfer the rgb signal via D-sub DB15 which no one uses anymore. I can't even remember the last time I've seen a monitor with db15. Just get some component cables senpai

[Anonymous No.6677025]

>not using composite through a retrotink with smoothing on an hdtv

[Anonymous No.6677030]

>>6676557

https://youtu.be/ssluTgfkdlg

[Anonymous No.6677078]

>>6675049
>>6675496

[Anonymous No.6677169]

>>6676629
I'm replying to my own post here, but I have a question for anyone knowledgeable about CRTs. Why isn't the picture stretch on my image? The circle isn't an oval, it's circular like in 8:7.

[Anonymous No.6677205]

>>6674846
I absolutely hate this meme. Outside of some exceptions, game designers and artists weren’t contemplating the properties of CRT displays, because that was the only medium available.

They generally made a picture in the simplest way available to them and put it in a box for you to buy.

[Anonymous No.6677363]

>>6675049
>rgb

[Anonymous No.6678127]

>>6676545
>The fact that SNES games get stretched horizontally on consumer CRTs is proof that you're wrong. Not saying 8:7 is superior, I prefer 4:3, but it still proves that you're wrong.
We settled this shit already.
SNES doesn't output 4:3 it outputs 4:3.1313
Yes there is a difference

[Anonymous No.6678163]

>>6678127
Not quite. It's 64:49.

[Anonymous No.6678230]

>>6678163
>It's 64:49
Including overscan yeah
WIthout overscan it's 4:3.1313

[Anonymous No.6678351]

>>6676396
Neither did the PC Engine, also the RF only NES 2 was released in 1993.

[Anonymous No.6678489]

>>6676779
What are you talking about? It's a softmodded wii hooked up to a Samsung CRT through RGB scart. There's nothing HD about it.

[Anonymous No.6678491]

>>6675049
>Modding your console to get an unintended experience

Faggot

[Anonymous No.6678493]

>>6675371
Dude latinamerican used composite like everyone around the world. Consumer tv's were the rule and also those cables came with the consoles. Shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.6678758]

>>6678491
>modding a console to play SNES roms for free
That's all it is. You do know the SNES can do RGB too, right?

[Anonymous No.6678765]

Composite looks fine on a consumer set. Not amazing, but not the mess it ends up on an LCD.

[Anonymous No.6678809]

>>6674846
not if you play arcade games

[Anonymous No.6678812]

>>6675496
looks like the time i tried to play psx on a 6" colour portable tv

[Anonymous No.6678928]

>>6674846
>>6674865
>>6675009
>>6676701
soul soulless soul soulless soul soul soul soulless soul soulless soulless soul soul

[Anonymous No.6678932]

>>6678765
do people really still play games like this? prince of persia was always boring.

[Anonymous No.6678954]

>>6674923
Yikes

[Anonymous No.6678976]

>>6678491
But it can display RGB out of the box???

[Anonymous No.6679000]

>>6678954
yikes cringe based soul soulless fuck off

[Anonymous No.6679657]

>>6678230
No, 64:49 is the ratio of the 256x224 active area. The pixel aspect ratio is 8:7. See:
https://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=Dot_clock_rates

[Anonymous No.6679824]

>>6678765
PoP was originally an apple game. meant to be played on PC monitors with big fat obvious pixels. pic is NOT THE WAY MEANT TO BE PLAYED!!!!

[Anonymous No.6679827]

>>6677205
SANIC transparencies are not exceptions. SANIC IS THE MAINSTREAM.

[Anonymous No.6680375]

>>6674846

[Anonymous No.6680381]

>>6680375

[Anonymous No.6680382]

>>6674846
>imagine walking during DON'T WALK

[Anonymous No.6680389]

>>6680382
Surprise, surprise! The best possible image quality was always desirable.

[Anonymous No.6680426]

>>6674846
When you put it into the pee hole it shocks you. Beware.

[Anonymous No.6680437]

>>6676545
Shitty image. This picture assumes the developers wanted a perfect circle and not an oval.

[Anonymous No.6680442]

>>6680382
I’m gonna boot up Batman on my RF Genesis just to see if I can read the don’t walk

[Anonymous No.6680447]

>SNES, TG16, PS1
RGB
>NES, Genesis, N64
Composite

I guess an argument could be made for best viewing PS1 in compositte due to all the dithering but I just love the raw dithered look of PS1 games with scanlines, looks so fucking good. But yeah, I find NES games too stark with raw input and composite adds a lot of detail, and the Genesis relies so much on dithering that I find I prefer composite there too

Not everything has to be black and white, do whatever you like best

[Anonymous No.6680448]

>>6680437
Nintendo is known to not giving a fuck about AR, for both NES and SNES.

[Anonymous No.6680457]

>>6680442

[Anonymous No.6680508]

>>6680447
Personally I'd swap PS1 and NES. The PS1's composite is pretty good, and there's a lot of dithering and prerendered backgrounds and such that benefit from a bit of added blur. But I can't stand the NES's composite, that sawtooth dot crawl is downright distracting. Even the NESRGB's encoded composite is a big improvement. For N64 it doesn't really matter, it looks about the same no matter what you use. I guess I'd go with RGB given the choice, if just for better color balance.

[Anonymous No.6680510]

>>6676619
>Most consoles didn't even offer any RGB options
are you really fucking serious?? Snes, Mega Drive, Master System, Saturn, PS1, Atari Jaguar, Gamecube, Wii, PS3, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, Dreamcast, CD-i, various MSXs. And all of these is right from the box, no mods

>>6680389
>
>>6678491
>>6678765
>>6676089
>>6675565
>>6675486

[Anonymous No.6680525]

>>6680510
Don't forgot the Neo Geo, a console where NOT playing in RGB goes against developer intent.

[Anonymous No.6680604]

>>6680508
>that sawtooth dot crawl is downright distracting
It's as much a part of the soul of NES graphics as are its characteristic palette and other limitations. If it wasn't for emulation distorting perceptions it would be seen as just another charming quirk of the system.

Fuck NESRGB and fuck videophile revisionism.

[Anonymous No.6680627]

>>6680604
Well, its soul is ugly. Fortunately that flaw can be fixed now, so its soul can be crisp and beautiful.

[Anonymous No.6681321]

>>6680604
>Soul
Opinion null and void.

[Anonymous No.6681586]

>>6674846

[Anonymous No.6681598]

>>6674846
Yeah okay, cope more

[Anonymous No.6681601]

>>6674846
based third worlder and his clone console in the years of 202X

[Anonymous No.6681607]

>>6681598
I don't think arcade games were every made with composite signals in mind, I'm pretty sure that was all RGB

[Anonymous No.6681608]

>>6681598

[Anonymous No.6681618]

why would i want my games to look bad? Are gamers nowadays so utterly retarded they think games looking worse makes them better?

[Anonymous No.6681643]

>>6681607
You are correct, but OP is trying to make a blanket statement by not specifying that.
Composite is only what the "developers intended" in a select few cases.
Most developers didn't care because they would have understood that the console they were developing for had multi-out of some sort, and knew that the player could be using any of the officially supported options.
Whatever handful developers didn't fall into either of those categories designed their games with RGB reference monitors, making RGB the closest thing to the developers' vision in those cases.

All this to say, RGB or equivalent (i.e. RGB transcoded to YPbPr, as in the two SF3S screens I posted above) is better looking in 99% of cases, and the statement "composite is the only correct way to enjoy retro games" is a whole lot closer to being objectively wrong than it is to being objectively right.

[Anonymous No.6681652]

>>6674846
RGB was always what people aimed for

[Anonymous No.6681696]

>>6681586

[Anonymous No.6682471]

>>6678765
I always hated composite dotcrawl
The day I finally got an s-video TV was a glorious day

[Anonymous No.6682478]

>>6680447
>N64
By the time I got an N64, I had an s-video TV, so I used that
>TG16
This is an interesting beast for this topic, since there were never any official PC Engine cables for anything besides RF and composite, but they did release that one all-in-one PC Engine monitor with an internal RGB connection, and the PC Engine expansion port does output RGB, but then they abandoned that with the Duo.
All of that leaves me wondering whether PC Engine developers were told to consider players might be using RGB.

[Anonymous No.6682814]

>>6674846
I don’t give a shit if game designers intended for you to scribble their artwork on dog shit from smoke signals. Love it or hate it, RGB is superior and looks BETTER than composite. This is a fact.

[Anonymous No.6682824]

>>6682814
Wrong

[Anonymous No.6683115]

>>6681618
Yes. Yes they are, Kent.

[Anonymous No.6683870]

>>6676074
the karaoke addon for the dreamcast only worked with composite. the hardware must've done some image processing, because the software works with any output.

[Anonymous No.6684295]

>>6681696
>>6681586
Left doesn't look like it's on a CRT.

[Anonymous No.6684576]

>>6674846

[Anonymous No.6684582]

>>6684295

the method i captured with messes with that.

[Anonymous No.6685490]

>>6674870
I usually play my Nes with one of those.

[Anonymous No.6686952]

>>6676708
this. what kind of stupid zoomer shit is this. even japanese home PCs that retailed for $100s had a discrete rf and composite ports

[Anonymous No.6686959]

>>6674846
How can one little cable make /vr/ seethe so much?

[Anonymous No.6687051]

>>6676708
>imagine going against your Nintendo overlord and not using svideo

[Anonymous No.6687289]

>>6686959
This all wouldn't be such a point if their beloved corporations (RCA in particular) didn't exclude the standard because of competition.

>>6681696
crt should look a bit worse than that

[Anonymous No.6687513]

>>6674870
Wanna know how I know you're LARPing? Pic related.

[Anonymous No.6687516]

>>6686959
>How can one little cable make /vr/ seethe so much?
REEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Anonymous No.6687584]

>>6680508
I play PSX with an RF cable because poorfag. For some reason, i needed a 50 buck PAL converter because my old TV didn't suppork the latest NTSC standard.

[Anonymous No.6687913]

>>6687051
i suppose i should also plug red into the left socket, and white into the right socket, too?