>Sonic the Hedgehog has been bad longer than it's been good

[Anonymous No.6647391]

When and what made the series go so wrong?

[Anonymous No.6647394]

>>6647391
>should we make a good game?
>NAAAAAAAH RUSH THAT INCOMPLETE SHIT OUT IN TIME FOR CHRISTMAS THEN SELL THEM THE DLC PATCH LATER

[Anonymous No.6647472]

when someone decided that FAST was a viable 2d platformer mechanic

[Anonymous No.6647476]

It's always been a mixed bag, people just refuse to look outside the Genesis trilogy to see that.
>Master System
>Game Gear
>3D Blast
>Spinball
>R
>Arcade games

I don't give a shit though. I still like the Genesis games, the Adventure games, and most of the "Dark Age" games, it wasn't until 7th gen that I couldn't find anything enjoyable in the series anymore.

[Anonymous No.6647508]

>>6647394
Sonic 3 takes about as long to finish as Sonic 2 and Sonic 1. It did not feel incomplete, it's just the full game was *that* big. I don't think anyone at the time complained about this. Besides, if we got the full Sonic 3 to begin with we wouldn't have had the cool lock-on tech and been able to play as Knuckles in Sonic 2

[Anonymous No.6647514]

>>6647391
It's probably a lot of differentr issues: quality of the games getting lower, pandering to the worst possible fanbase, changing the iconic and timeless character designs into something less appealing, obssesing with speed and set pieces, changing the surreal colorful world of the first games into a generic Earth-like world, etc.

[Anonymous No.6647526]

>>6647472
It was a viable 2D platformer mechanic. The issue was that it wasn't a viable mechanic in 3D, and Sega failed to adapt.

[Anonymous No.6647527]

>>6647391
They struggled to create a solid footing with the series when console games were at the forefront of the transition to 3D.

[Anonymous No.6647532]

scotformers in general got hit hard in newer generations, only Mario (and more recently DK) have been able to survive

[Anonymous No.6647623]

>>6647526
Except it is viable, as the Sonic style stages in most 3D Sonic games work exceptionally well. It was just that the games didn’t consist solely of them.

[Anonymous No.6647628]

>>6647391
To be honest it was never more than okay as a whole.

[Anonymous No.6647639]

>>6647628
Epic contrarian take!

[Anonymous No.6647643]

>>6647639
>contrarian
I don't even think it's contrarian to say that desu. Sonic only has a handful of good games and most are garbage.

[Anonymous No.6647661]

>>6647391
Sonic Mania formed a circuit with Sonic Adventure 1, retroactively making Sonic good all the way up to recent times.

[Anonymous No.6647664]

>>6647391
this is so epic

[Anonymous No.6647896]

>>6647391
The bad games are not retro.

[Anonymous No.6647987]

>>6647896
That's a boldface lie

[Anonymous No.6648073]

>>6647896
sonic r, sonic adventure 1 and 2 are all considered retro, though

[Anonymous No.6648109]

Sonic R and Sonic Blast were travellers tales, who get let off the hook way too much for their destruction of brilliant game franchises.
It's kind of bizarre how enjoyable Sonic Mania was - sega really did lose any idea of what makes a game fun around the time of the dreamcast. Amateurs now do it better.

[Anonymous No.6648123]

It hasn't though. Sonic was only bad for a few years, your opinion is a meme and severely out of date.

[Anonymous No.6648219]

>>6647391
Sonic was already bad longer than it was good by the time Sonic Adventure 2 came out.

[Anonymous No.6648243]

Sonic was a byproduct of a very specific point in time. They needed a game that did something that Nintendo hadn't done, which was to go fast. They needed a character to star in that, a character to stick middle finger to Mario, that was Sonic. As a regular platformer, Sonic was never particularly good. It was fun as fuck to go fast, though. That was the gimmick. But giant level design to accommodate for speed isn't sustainable, and once they squeezed the gimmick, there wasn't anything to do with it anymore. Sonic shouldn't have been their flagship title moving on. I generally like Sonic, by the way, but that's just how it be.

[Anonymous No.6648267]

Sonic 3D Blast was the beginning of the end

[Anonymous No.6648321]

>>6647391
How i pity people who had to settle for a Genesis instead of a SNES. Even as an 8yo I did, whenever I hear them sounds lol
>beepbeepboopboopbrrrrrrrrrtdtdtdtdboop boop brrrrrr brrrraaapppppp
There's not ONE game in the entire Sonic franchise that can stand up to SMB2 (lost levels) gameplaywise.
Sonic has never been good, ever.

[Anonymous No.6648346]

>>6647514
>changing the surreal colorful world of the first games into a generic Earth-like world
It was always on modern day Earth. Shit like Sonic living on a post-apocalyptic fantasy world or on Doctor Seuss Planet was never what the series was meant to be.

>>6648123
>Sonic Forces was good

[Anonymous No.6648419]

>>6647526
It worked pretty well in 3D when they stuck to it. They just make bizarre design choices and add a bunch of weird gimmicks.

The Sonic Stages in Somic Adventure 1 and 2 are pretty fun. If the game was all those, it’d be fine.

[Anonymous No.6648529]

>>6647391
Trying to emulate the comics success by adding more and more side characters that only served to attract even more furfags.

[Anonymous No.6648574]

>>6648243
The Genesis Sonic games were literal arcade games for an overclocked 16-bit console and the games are still pretty good for what they are, physics-based platformers.

Even looking at pic-related you will know exactly what you will get and SonicTeam did handle the novelty pretty fell in the early entries of the franchise.

[Anonymous No.6648757]

>>6647391
>When
Sonic 2

[Anonymous No.6648795]

These threads generate nothing but drama.

Into the trash it goes.

[Anonymous No.6648829]

>>6648346
>It was always on modern day Earth. Shit like Sonic living on a post-apocalyptic fantasy world or on Doctor Seuss Planet was never what the series was meant to be.
It might have been modern Earth, but it didn't look like that at all. The stages looked like real places but with a surreal twist that made them interesting enough to make Sonic stand up against other platfformers. Then, it came the 3D Sonics with literal San Francisco, Mexico or Greece levels and the magic was complelety lost.

[Anonymous No.6648898]

>>6648829
>He thinks Sonic Lost World's floating donut worlds are good

[Anonymous No.6648908]

>>6648795
I'll take a million of these over one 6th gen zoom tantrum threads.

[Anonymous No.6649027]

>>6648757
trash take

[Anonymous No.6649079]

>>6647391
sega doesn't care.

[Anonymous No.6649143]

>>6648829
Sonic CD takes place on Little Planet though, which is a really fucky place, the mainline Genesis trilogy is relatively grounded in comparison. Rolling hills, deserts, icy mountains, volcanoes, casinos, airships, Robotnik's bases, etc. Sure they aren't real places like in the Adventure games but they aren't exactly completely abstract.

[Anonymous No.6649294]

What do you think the next game is going to be like for the anniversary anons?

Another Sonic Generation? Sonic Mania 2? Sonic adventure 1 remake? (kek, never ever)

[Anonymous No.6649337]

>>6647476
I dunno, I find Spinball to be pretty fun

[Anonymous No.6649463]

>>6649294
I really hope Sega takes a good long look at why Sonic Mania was so popular and well received vs everything they've made for the last 14 years.

And pulls their head out of their ass and finally pays the licensing jews so they can rerelease S3&K, especially in a definitive version like the S1/S2 mobile ports Christian Whitehead made.

[Anonymous No.6649485]

The burden of creating 3D environments for Sonic being so high that the developers either have to limit them or make a Sonic game without speed.

[Anonymous No.6649518]

>>6649143
>aren't real places like in the Adventure games

[Anonymous No.6649636]

>>6648574
Are Sega console in general just arcade style games that get shoehorned into console gaming experiences? Seems to be a theme for them. And I'm not just talking about ports of actual arcade games either.

[Anonymous No.6649649]

>>6649518
I think he meant Station Square and/or San Francisco.

[Anonymous No.6649689]

>>6649649
>Station Square
There were cities since Sonic 1. Speed Highway doesn't fit any less than Star Light Zone and Stardust Speedway Bad Future accounting for technology.

>San Francisco
You mean the level where Sonic gets chased by a giant truck.

Just admit you're sore that the Adventure games aren't like SatAM or other westshit or your fanfics.

[Anonymous No.6649713]

>>6647391
The problem is Sonic Team had no idea what to do with the series after 3&K, so for a while they just pumped out mediocre spin-offs. When 3D became more popularized they had a clearer idea on where the series should go. They unfortunately didn't learn much with the release of Adventure 2 and the rest from there is outside the boundaries of this board. It's insane how Adventure 1, the most experimental title in the mainline series, is still the best-executed and official 3D Sonic game, and they still couldn't improve on the formula after 20+ years.

[Anonymous No.6649889]

>>6647394
>>6647508
yeah, nobody actually felt like it was anything "incomplete". it always felt like two separate full games.

[Anonymous No.6649901]

>>6647391
bad 3d adaptations, rushed/incomplete/buggy/aborted devolpment. also putting extremely lame plot and voices into it instead of just "go fast, from A to B, break up the baddies."

[Anonymous No.6649923]

>>6649713
imagine thinking that sonic adventure 1 is a better functioning game than sonic adventure 2. also imagine thinking big the cat and froggy are good aspects of the game. take off the nostalgia goggles, anon. SA1 was "new and groundbreaking" sure, but it was pretty bad. SA2 has glaring flaws too, but its definitely better and more polished.

[Anonymous No.6649961]

The jump to 3D killed Sonic. Only the 2D games are good.

[Anonymous No.6649992]

>>6647391
Sanic in generic real-life environments (cars n shit).

[Anonymous No.6649993]

>>6648898
I always thought it was ambiguous why there were cities like Star Light Zone. I know it's another continuity but the Japanese OVA interpreted those city levels as abandoned, it's not just some Western e-celeb take.

[Anonymous No.6650016]

>>6649901
>extremely lame plot and voices

This

Don't try to make your jumpy runny fasty game some epic tale, if it works for Nintendo (Plot of new game: Mario and Peach stand in a field, Bowser shows up, nature takes its course and now you are in level 1 of Grass World - done, lunch) it works for you. Especailly the voices. Is there an actual example where full voice acting (not just YIPPIIIE and WAHOO ) has actually been done well for a platformer?

[Anonymous No.6650052]

>>6649923
I'll take those fishing levels over that bullshit Rouge level with a time limit any day.

[Anonymous No.6650084]

>>6649992
SatAM isn't canon.

>>6649993
>ambiguous
So headcanon. The cities are shown as live and colorful, not post-apocalyptic. And Eggman was always there with no one calling him a space alien so obviously the games were just on a cartoon Earth not random furry planet.

>Japanese OVA
You mean the one where Knuckles is just some treasure hunter and not a guardian. And it showed occupied cities occupying the country Sonic lived in anyway.

[Anonymous No.6650147]

>>6650084
We never saw other humans in those cities. We didn't know if animals or humans lived in them, if they were old or newly constructed (like how Eggman's factories were newly constructed). Frankly I would be surprised if humans lived on South Island because of what the Japanese instruction manual said about it:
> This is South Island, a treasure trove of jewels and historic relics. And it is also said that this is the island where the illusionary "Chaos Emeralds" lay dormant. Chaos Emeralds are a super substance that gives energy to all living things. Furthermore, they can also be used as nuclear weapons or high energy laser weapons by science and technology. However, no one knows how to obtain them. That is because South Island is an island that moves around and the Chaos Emeralds exist within the distortions created by the island.
> One day, crisis visited upon the island. Doctor Eggman and his gang got down on the island. "Hmph... I will obtain the Chaos Emeralds, even if I have to dig up this entire island for them." Doctor Eggman built a huge fortress in the corner of the island and started development.

[Anonymous No.6650242]

>>6649518
It's pretty obvious what I'm talking about. Yes, Sonic Adventure (which is a game I like a lot, btw) has a few weird levels, but pretty much all takes place in a HUB that is basically New York, with humans living there. That's a major departure from the Mega Drive Sonics where you couldn't see a single human, and the cities and backgrounds were much more abstratc and surreal, especially in Sonic 1. In that pic also we can see a pretty generic forest level (nothing like the early-CGI stylized places of the first Sonics) and a generic Egypt level, which was also pretty generic in Sonic & Knuckles, btw. As I said, I like the first Sonic Adventure, and I think is the one which reminds more of the spirit of the Mega Drive ones, but with the 3D games it's pretty obvious they changed radically the artstyle of the originals and went for more a realistic world.

[Anonymous No.6650264]

>>6650147
>We never saw other humans in those cities
We did however see Eggman. Meaning there were other humans in the world.

>We didn't know if animals or humans lived in them, if they were old or newly constructed (like how Eggman's factories were newly constructed).
Game Eggman's not a dictator outside of Forces. And the stage descriptions in places like the manuals don't mention him building cities.

Naka already said that humans lived in lands outside of where the Genesis Trilogy happened in anyway.

[Anonymous No.6650308]

>>6650242
>but pretty much all takes place in a HUB that is basically New York, with humans living there.
Repeat After Me: Eggman is a human and has been there since Day One.

>That's a major departure from the Mega Drive Sonics where you couldn't see a single human
Please tell us how Eggman can be a thing if there weren't other humans. Don't bring in non-canon shit like X.

>the cities and backgrounds were much more abstratc and surreal, especially in Sonic 1
Not really. You're just confusing the dated technology and your memories/memes with authorial intent. Speed Highway is just as wacky as Star Light Zone.

>As I said, I like the first Sonic Adventure, and I think is the one which reminds more of the spirit of the Mega Drive ones, but with the 3D games it's pretty obvious they changed radically the artstyle of the originals and went for more a realistic world.
When you will accept SatAM is not and never was what the series was meant to be when its fathers were still at Sega.

[Anonymous No.6650325]

>>6647391
3D.

[Anonymous No.6650343]

>>6650308
Star Light doesn't even look that unlike a city here.

[Anonymous No.6650349]

>>6650264
Yes, I just think that the fact that the Genesis trilogy was set on islands outside of the human inhabited world is a fundamentally different thing than the Adventure games. I disagree with the assertion that Star Light + Spring Yard + Scrap Brain = Station Square etc. Those zones were on a magical island that moved around. That doesn't mean the world was post-apocalyptic, but our Earth does not have floating islands in the sky or moving islands at sea. I don't know if you're the one who said it or not but I disagree with this :
> Shit like Sonic living on a post-apocalyptic fantasy world or on Doctor Seuss Planet was never what the series was meant to be.
That's just not the impression I ever got when you look at the zones and you look at the story in the Japanese manuals. Yes, Eggman is a human and there were presumably other humans on the planet, but that doesn't mean it's our Earth.

[Anonymous No.6650361]

>>6650308
>Please tell us how Eggman can be a thing if there weren't other humans. Don't bring in non-canon shit like X.
The same reason that a blue hedgehog is a thing. Where did Sonic come from? Did he evolve from normal hedgehogs? Are there lots and lots of Sonic-like hedgehogs? Who the fuck knows. It's a strange world.

[Anonymous No.6650470]

>>6650349
>That doesn't mean the world was post-apocalyptic, but our Earth does not have floating islands in the sky or moving islands at sea.
And our Earth doesn't have stuff in the Megaman games. They're still set in Earth with robotic versions of Japan etc.

>That's just not the impression I ever got when you look at the zones and you look at the story in the Japanese manuals. Yes, Eggman is a human and there were presumably other humans on the planet, but that doesn't mean it's our Earth.
Tails' bio in Sonic 2's manual talks about his favorites being Christmas and a British sports car (Lotus Seven). It's a cartoon Earth. It's like you all don't watch any old school cartoons.

[Anonymous No.6650506]

>>6650308
>Repeat After Me: Eggman is a human and has been there since Day One.
As far as humans go, Eggman doesn't look like one, he's just an egg-shaped character with weird features. I'd been playing Sonic since 1991 and never thought Robotnik was a normal human being but more like a Bonanza Bros. character. Yes, he might be human, but was designed particular and distinct way that made him look like a puppet.

>Please tell us how Eggman can be a thing if there weren't other humans. Don't bring in non-canon shit like X.
I don't know what are you talking about because I have never seen any Sonic cartoon or movies. I always thougth the cartoons looked bad and ruined the mystery of the original games. Also, in the MD Sonics we don't ever see a single human, and much less the realistic everyday people of the 3D Sonics.

>Not really. You're just confusing the dated technology and your memories/memes with authorial intent. Speed Highway is just as wacky as Star Light Zone.
Now you are just trolling. Even the very same developers admited being inspired by surreal late 80s CGI, and it's pretty obvious just looking the games. The early games are an evolution of the Bonanza Bros geometric style.
I don't care about what was the canon or Sonic Team's original lore because one thing I loved about the early games was that they looked very stylized and that the left a lot to your imagination thanks to the little information they gave to the player about the world.

[Anonymous No.6650530]

>>6650361
>The same reason that a blue hedgehog is a thing.
Might as well bring in Bugs Bunny being a Wabbit.

>Where did Sonic come from?
Christmas Island.

>Did he evolve from normal hedgehogs?
Maybe.

>Are there lots and lots of Sonic-like hedgehogs?
There's already Amy.

>Who the fuck knows. It's a strange world.
Nobody comments on Eggman as being an outsider for being human just as how nobody in Station Square comments on Amy or Tails as not in the norm for being furries.

[Anonymous No.6650567]

>>6650506
>As far as humans go, Eggman doesn't look like one, he's just an egg-shaped character with weird features.
He looks like a fatter version of a character from Miyazaki's Laputa: Castle in the Sky.

>Also, in the MD Sonics we don't ever see a single human, and much less the realistic everyday people of the 3D Sonics.
Eggman is a human. And we don't see societies filled with furries either.

>Now you are just trolling. Even the very same developers admited being inspired by surreal late 80s CGI, and it's pretty obvious just looking the games. The early games are an evolution of the Bonanza Bros geometric style.
They were also inspired by oldschool cartoons and animu like Miyazaki's stuff.

>I don't care about what was the canon or Sonic Team's original lore because one thing I loved about the early games was that they looked very stylized and that the left a lot to your imagination thanks to the little information they gave to the player about the world.
>it's against muh headcanon

[Anonymous No.6650583]

>>6650567
Without invoking canon or whatever I can still critique the Adventure games for having a boring take on humans in Sonic's world. Yes it was implicit there were other humans because of Eggman and when we finally see them...they're just normal people in a New York-like city, zzzz. They could have had any other take than that. The fact that Eggman was always building cities/factories/casinos on these ancient and mysterious islands made it seem like he was a colonist, continuing that environmental vs industrial theme (who did he intend to use these casinos??). The humans (via Eggman) was a bad guy hurting the natural world (represented by Sonic and animal friends). They could have had Eggman as some emissary from an evil human mainland or something. Instead...no he's just one guy, and the humans are normal. It's boring.

[Anonymous No.6650762]

>>6650583
> Yes it was implicit there were other humans because of Eggman and when we finally see them...they're just normal people in a New York-like city, zzzz.
Uh yeah? What else would they be in an urban environment?

>The fact that Eggman was always building cities/factories/casinos on these ancient and mysterious islands made it seem like he was a colonist, continuing that environmental vs industrial theme (who did he intend to use these casinos??).
It was never anti-technology/anti-human civilization. Tails was a tech wiz since Day One.l and Uekawa's design for a human Sonic used gadgets. Merely against tyranny and pollution.

>The humans (via Eggman) was a bad guy hurting the natural world (represented by Sonic and animal friends).
Sonic isn't Blue Cat Injun Avatar. Eggman does what he does since he's a manbaby who thinks machines are beautiful and doesn't realize the harm he's doing. Not from being a big mean human hurting the furries in the name of humanity. Stop trying to stick fantasy racism in Sonic.

>They could have had Eggman as some emissary from an evil human mainland or something.
He was always a terrorist. And why would a manchild like him take orders?

[Anonymous No.6650923]

>>6650762
>Eggman does what he does since he's a manbaby who thinks machines are beautiful and doesn't realize the harm he's doing. Not from being a big mean human hurting the furries in the name of humanity.
No.
Here is an interview with Naka
> Dr Robotnik is a slightly radical representation of all humanity and the impact humanity is having on nature. In 1991, it was a very sensitive subject to talk about the environment and while I had my viewpoint, I did not speak of it. With Sonic, I was given an opportunity to express my views in a different way and did so, showing Robotnik using pollution and creating machinery which desecrates the environment and it is down to Sonic to change his ways.”
>http://thisismyjoystick.com/feature/interview-yuji-naka/
There. Eggman is a representation of all of humanity. So given that he represents all of humanity, it's odd that when we meet them they're chill and Eggman is a lone terrorist.

[Anonymous No.6650932]

>>6650923
>No
>I dun care what official lore says

>There. Eggman is a representation of all of humanity.
Obviously not enough for Sonic and Co. to use human technology and listen to rock music.

>So given that he represents all of humanity, it's odd that when we meet them they're chill and Eggman is a lone terrorist.
Repeat After Me: Sonic isn't Captain Planet.

[Anonymous No.6650965]

We're at the point of ignoring what official lore says to stick with fanfiction of race wars.

[Anonymous No.6651003]

>>6650932
>Repeat After Me: Sonic isn't Captain Planet.
I'm sorry but when we have an interview with Yuji Naka saying the game has environmentalist themes where Sonic is fighting an industrialist that represents humanity, and each zone ends with Sonic freeing animals (or in SonicCD, freeing flowers), I don't find your argument convincing, your opinion is little more than the fanfiction you're arguing against.

[Anonymous No.6651023]

>>6651003
>I dun care about all the times Sonic and Co. use technology or are shown doing things like listending to rock music or racing in cars
Keep cherrypicking since you're a furfag who wants his race wars in Sonic. Naka also talked about Sonic and Co. vacationing in California and eating McDonalds.

[Anonymous No.6651036]

>>6649337
I guess it's good if you like pinball but i've never been too big on the whole "spinoff" thing in geenral, I hate when a platformer series decides to do something like racing or mini game compilations, I like platform games because they're platform games, y'know?

[Anonymous No.6651047]

>>6651023
I don't know why you're talking about race wars or some weirdness like that. The point is that Eggman represents industry and industry takes more than one person to participate in. That doesn't mean there aren't good humans, and we have examples of bad animals in Sonic after all (Nack/Fang). All I'm saying is is that Sonic Adventure dropped the environmentalist theme, turned Eggman into more of a terrorist, and the game wasn't really about the struggle between nature and human industrialism anymore.

[Anonymous No.6651092]

Eggman was President of Eggman Industries. It begs the question who he sold his stuff to. His construction of cities, factories, and casinos make sense if they're for humans to take part in, like there has to be at least some segment of the human population who accept him tearing down forests and enslaving animals to build that crap. It's odd how they spun him as a lone agent with 3D Sonic, that just wasn't the impression I ever got playing it. He's an evil egomaniacal asshole who is part of a broader problem of global industrialism. And then we meet humans in the Adventure games and it turns out he is despised by literally everyone and it's him vs the world.

[Anonymous No.6651098]

>>6651023
To be fair, the McDonalds thing was just pure shilling since they had a Happy Meal deal at the time.

[Anonymous No.6651120]

>>6651023
Technology isn't in and of itself bad. As you said, Tails is an inventory too and uses a plane. The problem is industrialism as a whole, the destruction of nature to build factories. Remember, the Good Future in Sonic CD is still technological, but it's eco-friendly.

[Anonymous No.6651138]

>>6651047
All that and you haven't addressed Sonic and Co. repeatedly using technology (see especially Tails the tech wiz) or enjoying stuff like rock music.

>All I'm saying is is that Sonic Adventure dropped the environmentalist theme
Not really. You just won't accept Sonic and Co. don't hate technology and human culture. Adventure even had a badnik with a bird in the core be one of the playable cast.

>turned Eggman into more of a terrorist, and the game wasn't really about the struggle between nature and human industrialism anymore
He was always a terrorist since he had no position of authority outside of Western interpretations. And you still haven't addressed every time Sonic and Co. are shown interacting with tech and urban environments in things like Sonic 2's manual and Man of the Year and Screensaver/Harmony's artwork and even OVA.

[Anonymous No.6651139]

>>6647391
It was never good.

[Anonymous No.6651164]

>>6651138
See:
>>6651120
This isn't about technology vs nature, it's about *industrialism* vs nature. I don't know why you're confused, perhaps you're illiterate, or spent way too much time online given your mention of bringing up your hatred of furfags into a conversation that isn't about any of that. PAY ATTENTION. I'm starting to think I'm wasting my time talking to you because you're a dummy. Here is what I've said:
>>6651003
>environmentalist themes where Sonic is fighting an industrialist that
>>6650583
>Eggman was always building cities/factories/casinos on these ancient and mysterious islands made it seem like he was a colonist, continuing that environmental vs industrial theme

[Anonymous No.6651221]

>>6651092
>SONIC CD scrapped art
Eggman is never shown with his own corporation outside of the Riders games (which are well into the Adventure Era). Even in CD, he conquered Little Planet (with the only signs of civilized life being humans going from that Wacky Workbench Past statue).

>He's an evil egomaniacal asshole who is part of a broader problem of global industrialism.
He doesn't care about pollution since he's a manbaby. He doesn't pollute or destroy for the sake of it like in Western interpretations.

>And then we meet humans in the Adventure games and it turns out he is despised by literally everyone and it's him vs the world.
That's how he's depicted in the Technical.Files and OVA and Man of the Year. Canon Eggman outside of Forces (designed to accomodate Western interpretations) isn't a dictator and is a manbaby. He serves no one and acts for no one.

>>6651120
And Stardust Speedway Good is a giant carnival. Not a forest.

[Anonymous No.6651239]

>>6651164
I'll just wait for you to show a character bio saying Eggman acts to kill furries in the name of humanity.

[Anonymous No.6651330]

>>6651221
We can speculate on Eggman's motivations forever and my opinion is ultimately just that: an opinion. As I said at the start, they could have gone with any sort of take on the human world in Sonic Adventure and I think the one they went with was boring. I can't be talked out of thinking it was boring. Classic Sonic games were all set on magical islands at sea, and the Adventure games were our first real look at the rest of the world in the games, and it was kinda dull. Yes sure there were still surreal levels but I'm talking about the humans themselves. Like really, in every game Eggman is building up industry, and their ultimate answer to why is "Because he's CrAzY" instead of "He's building them for people to live in", and I think the former is more boring than the latter. He could have been both crazy AND a part of a bigger problem.

>Canon Eggman outside of Forces (designed to accomodate Western interpretations) isn't a dictator and is a manbaby. He serves no one and acts for no one.
I dunno. His whole plot with Chaos and the Eclipse Canon in Adventure 1 and 2 was about becoming dictator. Essentially, the conflict in the early games was just as much Nature vs Industrialism as it was Sonic vs Eggman. But in the Adventure games onwards, it was sort of more Good Guys vs World Conqurer/Dictator/Terrorist. Eggman isn't bad in the Adventure-series onwards because he's an industrialist, but because he wants to take over the planet.

There isn't really anything to fight about here. I agree with your characterization of Eggman as a manbaby who loves tech and all that. I'm really just trying to say that Station Square etc. is kind of boring and they wasted an opportunity to show us a more interesting or imaginative human world. My imagination went wild playing those Classic games and then when I played Adventure I was like, "Oh."

[Anonymous No.6651353]

>>6651239
He could have done it for his own personal reasons but been part of broader problem. As Naka said:
>Dr Robotnik is a slightly radical representation of all humanity and the impact humanity is having on nature
Is that the impression you get in the Adventure games and onwards? Of course not!

[Anonymous No.6651549]

>>6651330
We can speculate on Eggman's motivations forever and my opinion is ultimately just that: an opinion.
Him being a manbaby who has no idea of the harm he's doing has been canon as late as Sonic Jam.

>As I said at the start, they could have gone with any sort of take on the human world in Sonic Adventure and I think the one they went with was boring.
It's what they intended. Nobody says you can't watch SatAM.

>Classic Sonic games were all set on magical islands at sea
They didn't have floating donuts.

>Like really, in every game Eggman is building up industry
Sonic 1's lore (manual, promotional manga) only associated Scrap Brain Zone with him and said nothing of him building the other urban/techy levels.

>and their ultimate answer to why is "Because he's CrAzY" instead of "He's building them for people to live in", and I think the former is more boring than the latter. He could have been both crazy AND a part of a bigger problem.
He's Team Rocket crossed with Dr. Wily. Not Hitler.

[Anonymous No.6651613]

>>6651330
>I dunno. His whole plot with Chaos and the Eclipse Canon in Adventure 1 and 2 was about becoming dictator.
He wasn't one.

>Essentially, the conflict in the early games was just as much Nature vs Industrialism as it was Sonic vs Eggman. But in the Adventure games onwards, it was sort of more Good Guys vs World Conqurer/Dictator/Terrorist.
Sonic was already a global hero back in ghe Genesis Era and Eggman was already a terrorist back then. Official art in Screensaver/Harmony showed the Sonic Crew hanging out in a modern day city with humans around. Said art came out in the Genesis Era with Ohshima himself working on them.

>Eggman isn't bad in the Adventure-series onwards because he's an industrialist, but because he wants to take over the planet.
He always tried to conquer Earth. And last I checked conquering Earth requires you to fight humans meaning Eggman a danger to other humans as well as furries.

,>There isn't really anything to fight about here. I agree with your characterization of Eggman as a manbaby who loves tech and all that. I'm really just trying to say that Station Square etc. is kind of boring and they wasted an opportunity to show us a more interesting or imaginative human world. My imagination went wild playing those Classic games and then when I played Adventure I was like, "Oh."
Just watch James Cameron's Blue Furfag Movie.

[Anonymous No.6651623]

>>6651613

[Anonymous No.6651636]

>>6651623

[Anonymous No.6651654]

>>6651549
>>6651613
> It's what they intended
Oh? This is what they intended:
> Dr Robotnik is a slightly radical representation of all humanity and the impact humanity is having on nature
>all humanity
>ALL HUMANITY

[Anonymous No.6651683]

>>6648073
Both Adventure games are 7/10s at worst

[Anonymous No.6651689]

>>6647391

Lost it's way at Sonic 3, which was a gritty looking game compared the previous ones, huge drop in quality I noticed as a kid. Dropped it like a hot potato and played the shit out of the original, Sonic 2 and Sonic CD

[Anonymous No.6651692]

>>6651549
>Nobody says you can't watch SatAM.
> Just watch James Cameron's Blue Furfag Movie
I don't like Western Sonic's take on the story. I don't like Avatar. I don't know why you're making so many assumptions about my taste, like I'm someone who wants a furry vs human fight or who demands a post-apocalyptic take like SatAM or whatever. I'm just saying from a worldbuilding perspective Sonic's world as described in the manuals and seem in the games seemed fantastical, and although the levels were still pretty cool in Adventure, the story itself with respect to humans (e.g the President in SA2) and everything about the humans was boring, and Sega obviously thought so since they dialed it back.

[Anonymous No.6651712]

>>6651689

Your tastes are shit.

[Anonymous No.6651728]

>>6651636
Does your citation of this screensaver artwork with respect to Sonic's canon mean that the Sega Saturn existed in-universe

[Anonymous No.6651731]

>>6651654
Meanwhile every single time they had Sonic interact with non-Eggman humans/sortahumans in urban environmments he's a hero to them (Man of the Year, Adventures, OVA) that at worst need to be framed for the humans to be hostile to him (Man of the Year, Adventure 2). OVA and Man of the Year came out back in the Genesis Era if you recall.

Also:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Original_Story
>But for the most part, Sonic is as quick witted as he is fast footed and this gives him an extraordinary combination of talents that keep him the idol of kids around the globe.
>The evil doctor seems to have an endless supply of fiendish plots to take over the world, but Sonic seems to always find a way to frustrate his plans and keep him at bay. This has given Sonic somewhat of a celebrity status with the local inhabitants and he is loved by all as much as Robotnik is hated by all.
Sonic is the one who's adored around the globe while Eggman has no global adoration whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.6651743]

>>6651728
Sure. No different than Looney Tunes making references to old timey celebrities. More importantly it like the JP commercials and TF reflect what the plan for how Sonic was envisioned as a world.

[Anonymous No.6651749]

>>6651683

Even R is not a bad game per se. It's mediocre.

[Anonymous No.6651774]

>>6651692,
>I'm just saying from a worldbuilding perspective Sonic's world as described in the manuals and seem in the games seemed fantastical
Not a furry planet.

>and although the levels were still pretty cool in Adventure, the story itself with respect to humans (e.g the President in SA2) and everything about the humans was boring, and Sega obviously thought so since they dialed it back.
Are we pretending Forces was good

[Anonymous No.6651776]

>>6651636
>>6651728

[Anonymous No.6652903]

>>6647391
Hey OP, Your favorite band has been bad longer than it's been good. Chances are this is true so who cares what sonics doing

[Swift S. Lawliet !!VIQsbxF6xwO No.6653284]

Honestly, Sonic the Hedgehog is one of those franchises that no matter how shit it gets, I will always love it and stick with it no matter what.
And at least the older ones will always be classics.
I will even like some of the shittier stuff either ironically or unironically.

It's just like Star Wars at this point.

[Anonymous No.6653437]

>>6651047
>All I'm saying is is that Sonic Adventure dropped the environmentalist theme, turned Eggman into more of a terrorist, and the game wasn't really about the struggle between nature and human industrialism anymore.
Anyone who says this and believes this either didn't pay attention in Adventure or know nothing about Sonic in general

[Anonymous No.6653460]

>>6651692
Doesn't half of Adventure take place on Angel Island? So because they included a few city stages that makes it super boring. I'm sorry but I don't see how Windy Valley, Emerald Coast, Red Mountain, Ice Cap and Twinkle Park are any different from what we got in 3D besides the color palette due to the fact they weren't restricted to 3D hardware

[Anonymous No.6653472]

>>6653460
I said
> although the levels were still pretty cool in Adventure, the story itself with respect to humans (e.g the President in SA2) and everything about the humans was boring
Everything with respect to the humans specifically. I have nothing against city levels, Speed Highway was cool. I have nothing against Adventure's aesthetic, it's as weird and fun as the classic games. My point is the humans themselves and the world they inhabit is sort of dull. We have one interesting human character and he is Eggman. It was a missed opportunity to flesh out Sonic's world, that's all. I find South Island, West Side Island, Angel Island and Little Planet interesting, and they all featured cities. I do not think Station Square is interesting.

[Anonymous No.6653476]

>>6653437
Sonic Adventure is not about industrialism vs environmentalism. It is more about imperialism. Pachacamac sought power to fight other tribes, and the world was destroyed because of that hunger for conquest. Likewise, Eggman wants to destroy Station Square and build a city of his own in his place, he is the same as Pachacamac, he wants to take over the world. It isn't about factories being bad anymore, really. Like yeah he still captures animals to put them into robots but the game is much more about the folly of seeking power.

[Anonymous No.6653480]

Sonic Adventure was definitely the point when Sonic began to really try and take place within a modern world.

Everything up to then was mostly fantastical/grounded in nature. You could say Casino Night Zone but just look at the difference between that and Casinopolis. You could make your ideas about how Casino Night Zone's background city could be home to people or modern society, but really all the level was was more fantasy with a casino flavor added to it. Compare to Casinopolis, which does have the fantasy element when it comes to the giant pinball boards, but the level takes place in what is a very grounded location, a casino you could easily see humans gambling in. The fantasy elements are through teleporters which take you away from the world of the grounded and into the realm of fantasy/abstraction. Adventure had Station Square, with a realistic train system, realistic humans, etc., but it felt like a larger part of an overall world. Overall you could say it was a happy middle ground between the fantasy nature setting of the classic games and a totally modern setting.

Adventure 2 does however go straight into that modern setting. Just take into account the two new major characters. Shadow was an experiment created in a secret scientific laboratory, then imprisoned underground on an island controlled by the army. Totally different vibe immediately, it's science fiction, but it's so much less "fantasy" and so much more "modern". Even the concept of "an army" seems entirely foreign to classic Sonic. It gets even more explicit with Rouge, who is the first character in the franchise that I would describe as having "a job". Rouge is a spy working for the President (of America, we're assuming) who enjoys robbing places of jewels. She has a profession. She isn't just an animal hanging out in a fantasy world whose character guides her actions, she's a woman who works for a government. Absolutely does not mesh with the world of, say, Sonic 3, whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.6653482]

>>6653480
Yeah. It's hard to imagine Sonic 3 taking place in the same world, as you said. I know it's silly to make retcons and all but really, what was GUN up to when the Death Egg went up into the air? If that was really a planet just like Earth, did they not have any sort of response to Eggman launching a space station twice? Did they just leave it to Sonic? I didn't get the impression playing Sonic 3 that this was like, a planet with 7 billion humans or whatever. It was a fantasy world. And then yes, SA2 is trying to show us that it is a world just like ours with a President who gets briefed on what is happening with the ARK and where Eggman makes demands to world governments.

[Anonymous No.6653487]

>>6653480
To me this really reminds me of Dragon Ball. At the beginning of Dragon Ball, we meet a bunch of characters who live in places like forests, deserts, mountains, or small villages. One of the characters has advanced technology, but it's a fantasy type of technology. There are anthropomorphic animals all over the place and one of the characters has a tail and can transform into a giant ape for no real explained reason. It definitely has a fantasy feel, and larger, industrialized cities with governmental systems, armies and police, etc. don't seem to exist.

Fast forward to giant metropolitan cities, characters watching television, an established government and army, and the introduction of science fiction elements such as time travel. That kid with a tail who could transform into a giant ape? Well, turns out he's an alien and that's why those things happened. It all becomes grounded in a sense of reality, where things can be explained concretely and fantastical things don't happen. Even the anthropomorphic animals almost completely fade into the background in favor of focus purely on human-like characters. The series completely shifts away from the fantasy elements to the point where it can sometimes be easy to forget it's supposed to be the same location throughout.

[Anonymous No.6653545]

>>6653476
Eggman's end goal is still to wipe out Station Square + Mystic Ruins to build Eggmanland on top of it, No different from what he was doing in the classic games though? All they did was just expand on what was already there. Pachacamac was teampling on nature in the same way Eggman was for the sake of expanding his land. At that point there really is no modern technology but they're still arguably similar especially when looking at Lost World which is definitely more "Ancient technology" I'd say that Adventure was more a subversion of the classics but if still maintained that feel.
>>6653482
GUN wasnt working for the President during Adventure 2 since they're a PMC that's ocassionally hired by the government. GUN only ever got involved in SA2 because their lab rat escaped their facility and they were trying to cover that up.

[Anonymous No.6653587]

>>6650349
The fact that Mystic Cave and Oil Ocean are the wrong way round is triggering my autism.

[Anonymous No.6653678]

Sonic Heroes

[Anonymous No.6654172]

>>6653678
is bad, yes, good example

[Anonymous No.6654351]

>>6647639
Sonic is only good for the retarded fanbase that enjoys seeing their screen scroll fast, gameplay wise it has close to no platforming and every attempt to add platforming stages is met with neutral/negative reception. UNLESS the music of the stage is good, then the platforming is also good somehow.

[Anonymous No.6654491]

>>6653480
>>6653482
>furfag fanfiction
Your opinion doesn't override canon.

>>6653487
>He didn't read the manga at all and is going off the shitty dubs
There were cities and other signs of an actual civilization since the tournament. And Goku considered he might not be human when fighting Piccolo.

[Anonymous No.6654869]

>>6654491
Canon is an evolving thing. According to canon, there is a human world and an animal world in Sonic, and Classic Sonic comes from a different dimension than Modern Sonic. Enjoy your canon.

[Anonymous No.6654945]

I'm going to say purely as a platformer, Sonic was never that good. What it had going for it was style, and a level of openness and exploration, that you didn't get in a lot of it's competitors. Exploring the levels to find the special stages, or being able to play as different characters, that changed up the gameplay in various ways was the real appeal to me as a kid.
I think the later games really dropped the ball on that. Everything feels more railroaded, you can't play as Knuckles or Tails in Sonic's levels, unlocking Super Sonic just gives you an extra boss fight, and is done through beating the story, rather than going off the beaten path to collect all of the emeralds. That whole sense of discovery and adventure is missing. Ironic, since the first 3D game was literally called Sonic Adventure.

[Anonymous No.6655042]

>>6654491
>canon
> Takashi Iizuka: We have two different worlds for Sonic games – one is human, and one is set on the non-human side. Sonic Colours is set on the non-human side.

[Anonymous No.6655241]

>>6654945
>you can't play as Knuckles or Tails in Sonic's levels
This kind of doesn't work since then you could just skip over most of the stages like Tails does as Knuckles due to the fact that designing stages for all 3 would take too long due to Sonic's lack of aerial maneuverability and then people would just complain anyway.

[Anonymous No.6655268]

>>6655241
It was cool though.

[Anonymous No.6655280]

>>6655268
So was running from the boulder in Lost world but people still complain about how shit like that railroads the player and how you can break the script.

[Anonymous No.6655291]

>>6655280
I barely played Lost World, so I don't know. I'm not strictly opposed to scripted sequences, and I actually do like Generations gameplay, but I don't want that to be the entire franchise.

[Anonymous No.6655305]

>>6655291
Neither do I. Most people who want the Adventure-style physics and gameplay don't want shit like automated loops to come back either

[Anonymous No.6655312]

>>6654869
>>6655042
>Two-Worlds
Just an in-universe excuse for pandering to Westfags like you who couldn't accept Sonic didn't live in My Little Pony Land. Two-Worlds is a method to segregate Sonic away from non-Eggman humans and put him in the meme version of the Genesis Era's setting (furry world filled with floating donuts).

>Classic
Pandering to Classiconlyfags.

Also:
>taking Iizuka's babble seriously when he can't even remember where Emerald Coast

[Anonymous No.6655317]

>>6655312
The fact Sonic owned a plane proves that there are more humans other than Eggman in the first place

[Anonymous No.6655338]

>>6655317
I thought Tails built the plane.

[Anonymous No.6655345]

>>6655338
No, Tails didn't build his own plane until Adventure. It's the whole point of his character arc.

[Anonymous No.6655385]

>>6655338
>Plane has Sonic's name on it

>>6655345
He was a tech wiz since Day One. But yes.

[Anonymous No.6655406]

>>6655385
Tails would put Sonic's name on a plane, though,

[Anonymous No.6655410]

>>6655312
>Just an in-universe excuse for pandering to Westfags like you who couldn't accept Sonic didn't live in My Little Pony Land. Two-Worlds is a method to segregate Sonic away from non-Eggman humans and put him in the meme version of the Genesis Era's setting (furry world filled with floating donuts).
Your opinion doesn't override canon.

[Anonymous No.6655451]

You can have humans in a Sonic game, without them looking like just generic GTA civilians, and completely clashing with the existing characters. Unleashed had some of the right ideas.

[Anonymous No.6655461]

>>6655406
How do you think Sonic got around before meeting Tails? Run on water?

>>6655410
>Iizuka was one of Sonic's makers
Might as well argue Emperor Palpatine is alive after falling off a cliff in a space station that exploded.

[Anonymous No.6655480]

>>6655461
If you're setting arbitrary definitions of what canon is or isn't based on who was involved you're really not talking canon, you're talking headcanon. If you're saying Sonic Adventure 2 counts but Sonic Colors doesn't, nice opinion, it's also out of your ass and literally just fanfic in your head.

[Anonymous No.6655486]

>>6647472
but it isnt, the pinball physics were the mechanic
its just that the marketing department had to meme the BLAST PROCESSING to compete with nintendo

[Anonymous No.6655493]

>>6655461
Who does he think he is? Jesus?

[Anonymous No.6655496]

>>6655451
They already had an artist to make them alongside a game to compare with.

[Anonymous No.6655503]

>>6655480
Go back to your Star Wars Sequels.

[Anonymous No.6655524]

>>6655503
Star Wars sequels fucking suck and Sonic Adventure 2's story fucking sucks, how's that for an opinion. GUN is a terrible addition to the Sonic universe, edgy moronic crap. Sure it's canon, and Sonic's canon is shit. It was good when you played he classic games and could use your imagination to fill in the gaps, and then Sega filled in the gaps and nearly everything they presented was bad.

[Anonymous No.6655532]

>>6655496

[Anonymous No.6655545]

>>6655524
>GUN is a terrible addition to the Sonic universe
It's an extension of Sonic's freespirit/anti-establishment characterization. Sonic has no respect for authority so he takes on his setting's supreme enforcers of law. It's frankly more suitable for the character than being in some furry military like in SatAM/Archie and Forces.

[Anonymous No.6655550]

>>6655312
>Adventure & Adventure 2 is consistent with Classic canon, it counts
>Modern Sonic breaks canon, is pandering and sucks
If you're a person who thinks both of these in the pic are consistent with each other and depict the same sort of world and the modern stuff is somehow counter to that uh consistent vision, I am glad my headcanon isn't the same as your headcanon.

[Anonymous No.6655559]

>>6655545
I agree in theory but not in practice. GUN could have been good if they made it seem more like part of Sonic's cartoon world. It is very strange that Eggman is a cartoon human and the other humans are not.

[Anonymous No.6655586]

>>6655532
A reminder that Yuji Uekawa saved this franchise.

[Anonymous No.6655597]

>>6655550
As long as you recognize Genesis Sonic was meant to be on a cartoon Earth and not some furry fantasy world.

>>6655559
I agree. Hence posting >>6655496 and >>6655532

[Anonymous No.6655610]

>Muh canon
There's never been a continuity. They threw anything they had at the wall and saw what stuck.

[Anonymous No.6656954]

>>6647508
Yeah, kids back then thought the lock-on thing was the hottest shit since we found out that celebrities have sex tapes.

[Anonymous No.6656982]

>>6647391
3D Blast was the death throws. Even though I thoroughly enjoy it, I can recognize it for what it is. The fact that it's the closest thing the Saturn got to a "new" Sonic game along with R is tragic.

Adventure was a good prototype but they screwed the pooch on everything after.

The Advance games were pieces of shit too wrapped up in gimmicks to bother with proper level design.

[Anonymous No.6657085]

>>6656982
I thought the first Advance game had potential. It was basically a classic game in terms of physics and all that. Thought 2 and 3 weren't very fun though.

[Anonymous No.6657170]

Here is my take: 2D Sonic is a momentum-based platformer where Sonic plays like a pinball with legs. He can roll up slopes and push off to go far, bounce around on flippers, and overall just use speed and momentum to navigate to different paths throughout each level.
This is NOT replicated in 3D Sonic's level design, not in Adventure, not in modern titles. The reason is because 2D Sonic benefits from the verticality of level design, and the camera just makes that sort of verticality impossible in 3D Sonic. In the absence of reaching alternate paths vertically, what can they do? In my opinion, it's to broaden where you can go on the same plane as Sonic, which is to say, open world. If you can't increase the momentum-based possibility space above and below you, the level design should accommodate multiple paths around you. No 3D Sonic game has done this.

[Anonymous No.6657183]

>>6655610
Nice bait.

[Anonymous No.6658307]

>>6647391
Sad but it's a true statement. Sonic has only been good for 10 years (1991-2001), then it went to shit. I don't know why people cling on to this series.

[Anonymous No.6658334]

>>6649689
Angel Island in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is nothing like the Angel Island in Sonic Adventure.

[Anonymous No.6658504]

>>6654491
>He didn't read the manga at all and is going off the shitty dubs
...What?
>There were cities and other signs of an actual civilization since the tournament.
Yes, and? I'm just saying that when Dragon Ball began it had a very different feel in that aspect. Even when it came time for the first tournament, it was a relatively lowkey event and we were still in that fantasy mode. You need only compare it to the last World Tournament, the Buu Saga one, where the event has become a huge televised event with mainstream celebrities and a shit ton more seats. That's a good example of how the world of Dragon Ball changed over time.
>And Goku considered he might not be human when fighting Piccolo.
Yeah, years and years into the manga's run when Toriyama had realized he wanted Goku to be an alien now

[Anonymous No.6658538]

>>6658504
I agree with your comparison between Sonic and Dragon Ball. The changes aren't necessarily obvious as they happened but eventually it just hits you and you're like, HUH, how is this the same world as before!? Like yeah, there are cities in 16-bit Sonic, oh we have some humans in Adventure now, oh we have a military in Adventure 2 now...oh Shadow is made with alien tech....

[Anonymous No.6658684]

>>6647394
Wrong. That was a great game 3D Blast was when it went wrong

[Anonymous No.6658691]

>>6658538
Yeah, my point was just that they both gradually moved on the sliding scale between "100% fantasy" and "100% realism" towards the realism side of the spectrum as their series went on. Or maybe 'realism' isn't quite the right term but I'm not entirely sure what else to call it.

[Anonymous No.6659029]

>>6655559
They should have had more ridiculous shit like the fuckhuge 18 wheeler instead of what we got in ShaTH

[Anonymous No.6659041]

>>6658334
Is it because angel island is no longer the name of the level but of the island?

[Anonymous No.6659759]

>imagine being a brainlet caring about lore of the fucking mascot platformer
>imagine being a developer pandering to brainlets caring about lore of the fucking mascot platformer
lmao
this franchise is a joke and if it was a horse, i'd just shoot it.

>>6649901
>>6650016
I second this.

>>6649636
Yes and that's one of the reason their consoles died.

[Anonymous No.6660076]

>>6659759
It's very funny to me that the outcome of Nintendo thinking "what if we gave our mascot platformer a plot" was SMRPG and Paper Mario, and the outcome of Sega asking that was...Sonic Adventure, and nearly every Sonic game afterwards. Yikes. Nintendo knew better than to saddle their main franchise with that crap.

[Anonymous No.6660181]

>>6658334
You need to go back.

>>6658504
>>6658538
>>6658691
>my headcanon is canon
Just go back to your My Littlr Pony/Undertale already.

[Anonymous No.6660191]

>>6660181
I don't think anyone is talking about headcanon. Just that Sonic 2 didn't give much impression in that self-contained experience that there was a secret government black ops group, or that the ultimate life form was created to stop an alien overlord. The overcomplication of the children's mascot game happened over time. It is sort of crazy to be worried about what is or isn't canon about Sonic the Hedgehog, you can say it is terrible and "but it's canon" is hardly a refutation.

[Anonymous No.6660192]

>>6660181
>>my headcanon is canon
What are you even talking about? It isn't even a headcanon that Sonic changed over time. You can observe this by actually playing any of the games. Do you have some kind of severe mental disability?

[Anonymous No.6660201]

>>6660181
>My Littlr Pony/Undertale
Less embarrassing than the plot of Sonic Adventure 2, where a talking black hedgehog fights for the memory of the girl with Space AIDS killed by the government.

[Anonymous No.6660212]

>>6660181
>Just go back to your My Littlr Pony/Undertale already.
Sonic fans are deluded thinking their games are somehow different from this

[Anonymous No.6660219]

>>6660192
Sonic was long meant to be a cross between a shonen animu and a Western cartoon ala Felix the Cat. And more importantly, Sonic was on a modern day Earth with all that implies as early as Sonic 2 which carried over into the mangas, commercials, and Man of the Year.

>>6660201
Found the ponyfag/undernigger. Go back to your porn.

[Anonymous No.6660231]

>>6660219
>Sonic was long meant to be a cross between a shonen animu and a Western cartoon ala Felix the Cat. And more importantly, Sonic was on a modern day Earth with all that implies as early as Sonic 2 which carried over into the mangas, commercials, and Man of the Year.
Good to know you didn't even bother reading my posts, or at least completely ignored their points. I'm just going to assume severe autism and move on.

[Anonymous No.6660285]

>>6660219
>Found the ponyfag/undernigger. Go back to your porn
I have some terrible news for you about the Sonic fandom's uh artistic output.

[Anonymous No.6660437]

>>6660231
>when you don't have a real argument

[Anonymous No.6660452]

>>6660437
I already made it and you ignored it. Am I really expected to regurgitate it all again so you can just ignore it again?

[Anonymous No.6663495]

>>6647391
The devs took the franchise in a shitty direction by following the "3D is the future of gaming" meme.

[Anonymous No.6663603]

>>6663495
you got to keep up with the Jones' man, a 2D Sonic post Mario 64 would have laughed off the face of the Earth, I don't even thing Sega back then could produce a 2D Sonic game on Saturn that could surpass Sonic CD in terms of scale or look better than SOTN and Grandia, Sonic just isn't built with that type of variety and set pieces in mind.

[Anonymous No.6663701]

sonic was never good

[Anonymous No.6663915]

What are /vr/s thoughts on the post-Adventure 2D games (mostly the Advance and Rush trilogies)? Are they worth a play?

[Anonymous No.6663926]

>>6651139
>>6663701
>>6647628
>>6648321
t. zoomers who get their opinions from faggot e-celebs

[Anonymous No.6663940]

>>6663915
Advance 1 is good. Advance 2 and 3 have large levels that feel very samey throughout, they no longer feel like "real" places but instead massive routes and obstacle courses superimposed on different backgrounds zone to zone, if you get what I mean. Like for example in S&K in Sandopolis Act 1 you feel like you're moving through a desert approaching a pyramid. In Sonic Advance 3 you're like....in the Sonic equivalent of Metal Gear VR missions, just massive constructs of obstacles that only incidentally have different backgrounds and tilesets from zone to zone. It makes it feel like a really boring slog.

[Anonymous No.6665121]

>>6660452
Just go back to whatever shit fanfics you read.

>>6663701
e celeb

[Anonymous No.6665374]

>>6663915
They are Forbidden To Discuss on /vr/, but I liked Advance 1, 2, 3 and Rush. Advance 3 was probably my favourite, but I love all the Advance games. In general they were all very worthy continuations of the series from the MD games and definitely worth playing if you want more of what the MD games did. They all have the staple 2D Sonic level design of having low paths and high paths, where the high paths are faster, more rewarding, less punishing, but harder to get to. I think the levels were designed quite well, even in 3. I also like 3 for throwing away the scoring system to focus purely on completion time. I think it streamlines the gameplay, because IMO Sonic games were always meant to be played focusing purely on time, not score.

Also, they all had fucking gorgeous sprites and amazing music (especially 3.)

Rush was also neat, and despite technically being the first boost game, I think the way Rush used boost added to the gameplay. Sonic games are about memorization (Yuji Naka basically said this in an interview about Sonic 1,) and Rush makes it possible to boost through the whole level, but boosting through the level is suicide if you aren't familiar with it. Being able to boost through levels is a nice reward for getting more familiar with them. I haven't played much of Rush Adventure yet, and I haven't played Colors DS or Generations 3DS at all.

Sonic 4 Episode 1 looks and feels fucking awful. I haven't been able to convince myself to play very much of it. Sonic 4 Episode 2 is a lot better and almost feels like an Advance game (no surprise, since it's also by Dimps.) Still, it's not as good as the Advance games and I haven't finished it yet either.

[Anonymous No.6665445]

>>6648346
>It was always on modern day Earth
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[Anonymous No.6665549]

>>6665445
Stick to the e-celebs and westshit.