/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6602415]

For me, it's Dragoon.

[Anonymous No.6602430]

i used to be all about Dragoon until I realized iI was actually Dark knight

[Anonymous No.6602436]

>>6602430
I was Dark Knight when I thought it was a badass suit of armor, but then the remakes confirmed that he's actually wearing a gimp suit.

[Anonymous No.6602442]

>>6602436
FF14 fixed the class

[Anonymous No.6602445]

>>6602430
I don't get what Cecil's armor is truly supposed to look like. The overworld sprite you can clearly see his face, the battle sprite looks like some helmet which covers his eyes and the menu portrait covers his whole face and has a "T" visor.

[Anonymous No.6602461]

>>6602445
I always took as as he rapidly changed his helmet

[Anonymous No.6602468]

Final Fantasy used to have great spritework in the 2D era... I wish they continued with it instead of these ugly 3D models in VI and beyond.

[Anonymous No.6602471]

>>6602442
damn thats pretty slick

[Anonymous No.6602585]

>>6602430
My last playthrough of FFIII, I was Dragoon/DK/White Mage/Knight for pretty much the entire time up until I got to the Earth Crystal and it was great.

I only really replaced Dragoon with Ninja and White Mage with Devout. DK duel wielding Ultima and Ragnarok is too good. Which is also great because I had to put dark swords on my ninja.

[Anonymous No.6602595]

>>6602415
I love using Double Dragoon Edgar and Mog in FFVI.

[Anonymous No.6602908]

>jump
>only does marginally more damage than if I'd just attacked normally
>also could have attacked almost two times in the time it takes to do one jump

I never understood what they were going for with this class. They spend half the battle out of battle and when they come back they don't usually contribute much more than if they'd just stayed. At least if they stay than can use items or help out in other ways. At least a white mage can cast like 10 different magics. Dragoon can do only one thing, and not very well. They should have given him a second skill or ability to help round him out.

[Anonymous No.6602939]

>>6602908
>I never understood what they were going for with this class.
Like everything else in the US released it probably got nerfed.

[Anonymous No.6603028]

>>6602939
Even in FF5 they're like the worst class too.

[Anonymous No.6603040]

RDM or gtfo

[Anonymous No.6603062]

>>6603040
suave AF

[Anonymous No.6603087]

For me, it's Blue Mage

[Anonymous No.6603103]

Which is the better dragoon?

[Anonymous No.6603136]

>>6602415
Why do they all stand like that?

[Anonymous No.6603167]

>>6603103
Just using a spear doesn't make you a dragoon, they were amateurs.

[Anonymous No.6603171]

>>6603167
Yes but the dragoon boots do.

And the dragon horn makes them multi-jump

[Anonymous No.6603173]

>>6603171
Why don’t you go multi jump on some dick you dragoon simp

[Anonymous No.6603175]

>>6602908
There's a certain tactical advantages to having one of the units off screen in that they can avoid AOE attacks entirely and you can worry less about having to heal them since they are rarely targeted.

[Anonymous No.6603181]

>>6603171
>can't jump without special boots
>have to sacrifice two relic slots to multi-jump

Rank amateurs. Dancers and machinists should leave the jumping to the real dragoons.

[Anonymous No.6603329]

I like Moogle.

[Anonymous No.6603464]

For me it's 99 Potions

[Anonymous No.6603803]

>>6603103
Dance = shit
Tools = not shit
Mog wins the boots

[Anonymous No.6603807]

>>6603803
Dance is only shit endgame

[Anonymous No.6604036]

>>6603136
The Chad Stride.

[Anonymous No.6604131]

Nothing compares to this.
Gets stronger and more broken with every entry.

[Anonymous No.6604134]

>>6603062
nobody will get it

[Anonymous No.6604142]

Layers bro

[Anonymous No.6604210]

>>6604131
Who was the weakest monk in the series? Was it Sabin?

[Anonymous No.6604419]

>>6604210
Sabin gets a bit gimped because you have to do input chains on top of reaching certain levels per ability. Besides that, he's pretty strong.
The others are pretty much powerhouses on their own, especially on III where you can hit multiple times.
In my opinion, there's so many great classes and abilities in V that the monk class gets overshadowed on it's own, but shines when you pair it with other abilities as a Freelancer or Mimic (Chakra + White Wind blue spell, Barehanded + Rapid Fire, Focus and mastering Thief class for the speed)

[Anonymous No.6604468]

>>6602442
FF14 can't fix anything.

[Anonymous No.6606340]

>only a single dragoon in the entire series ever rode a dragon
What did Square mean by this?

[Anonymous No.6607093]

>>6602415
Based

Also, anyone doing fourjobfiesta?
Which jobs are "popular"? Curious about the RegPopular command.

[Anonymous No.6607243]

>>6602468
VII was the only ugly one, the rest were amazing

[Anonymous No.6607251]

>>6607093
>he renames the characters

[Anonymous No.6607682]

>>6603062
isn't that emperyean?

[Anonymous No.6607772]

>>6602442
>Knight
>dude put on a leather trenchcoat
Even the Dark Knight designs from FFX are better than that.

[Anonymous No.6607795]

>>6607251
We knew one kid in our class who renamed the characters. I don't think this is really any big deal or anything, but he would actually refer to the characters by HIS names when the games were being talked about and then act like we should know who he was on about.

[Anonymous No.6607880]

I always related to Kain more than Cecil, too. I guess that goes with feeling like a side character in your own life.

[Anonymous No.6608126]

>>6607251
Yeah if you reply the game dussins of times, why not?

[Anonymous No.6608675]

>>6603087
Having just played 5 and 6, I don't see why people say blue magic was overpowered in 5 to the point they had to "tone it down" in 6. Quite a few of the spells were the same and even in 5 it wasn't godly, though if you had a guide and knew exactly how to get certain ones early you would have definitely had an easier time. I think on a blind first play most people would miss those though.

[Anonymous No.6608790]

>>6608675
>I think on a blind first play most people would miss those though.
Yeah that's true.
That becomes very apparent when you watch blind playthroughs of ff5. Saw one player reach Walse tower with a dead weight blue mage. Painful, but it's what I want to see.

[Anonymous No.6608856]

>>6607251
As a kid it's all in good fun.
You name the MC after you, your sister names the female protag after her...and hours later those two characters start fucking.

[Anonymous No.6608957]

>>6608856
>brothers buddy brings his ps1 and ff9 because he wants my brother to play the game and a group of us watch him play
>brother names zidane after himself, me after vivi, steiner after one of their hyuge friends, garnet after our sister, eiko after our other sister

[Anonymous No.6609217]

>>6604210
Yang > Tifa > Sabin > Power Gap > Amarant > Zell

Yang is the highest rank martial artist from a country of martial artists. He's about as top tier as you're going to get. Tifa is the star pupil of Master Zangan, who boasts hundreds of students across the world. Sabin is the star pupil of Master Duncan who apparently only ever had like two students and is not well known.

Amarant is a bounty hunter that just happens to use unarmed techniques. Zell is a teenage mercenary who also just happens to fight unarmed. Neither have a listed school or discipline. Amarant hedges Zell out because he's the more experienced.

[Anonymous No.6609228]

>>6609217
Sabin suplexed a train tho

[Anonymous No.6609229]

>>6609228
A ghost train. Literally has no mass. It's like suplexing a breeze.

[Anonymous No.6609243]

>>6609217
I might rank Tifa higher for your lore reasons, since Tifas martial art training comes from a master of a more globalized world, while Yang is a master of a much smaller one.

I think you could also rank them based on their relative power in their own game, and their relative power mechanically to eachother.

Since ff7 and ff8 abuse multiple attacks Zell and Tifa would speed ahead in the latter metric.
For the former, their relative power within their games then how they're used in common playthroughs, their potential, their usage in speedruns becomes more important, I think Sabin would be higher up there and Yang would fall down.

[Anonymous No.6609250]

>>6609229
>the weight of the spirit world is nothing
shiggy

[Anonymous No.6609253]

>>6609228
Not in my game he didn't.

*phoenix down*

[Anonymous No.6609660]

>>6609217
>Zell at the bottom
>Zell below Amarant
My man punched a train so hard everyone on board thought it was an earthquake. That's CANON. Amarant is a huge bitch who fails at everything.

[Anonymous No.6609692]

>>6602442
FFXI did it better

[Anonymous No.6609701]

>>6609217
Yang is easily the weakest. He's never good at any point during FF4.

[Anonymous No.6609717]

>>6607251
>Play the retro FFs growing up, always name the MC after myself and the love interest after my girlfriend growing up.
>Name all the other characters after various other friends.

>Almost a decade and a half later, load up my old save.
>GF has long left me, friends that I've graduated with have moved off.
>Absolutely no named character is someone I talk to on a regular basis anymore.
>Just feel intense sadness from my old saves, stop naming characters at all anymore because it's less crushing when loading my saves later.
>Except for SMT1 because it fits to a tee on how we all developed.

[Anonymous No.6609747]

>>6609229
He literally held up an entire mansion so Celes could save some dumb ass baby.

[Anonymous No.6609860]

If you were to reimagine the FF5 system, what would you change?
I'd mostly look into the weapons.
I like how different axes, knives, swords are, but they're not working as they intended, because that would've been too overpowered.

Like whips, bows, knives all should get bonuses from agility and strength, but only the chicken knife works properly in that damage calculation, instead only the first byte from the agility gets counted.

Here's briefly how they and some others work:
>Swords
M = (Level*Strength)/128 + 2
>Axes
M = (Level*Strength)/128 + 2
Defense = (Defense/4)
>Whips
M = (Level*Strength)/128 + (Level*Agility)/128 + 2
Long Range
>Bows
M = (Level*Strength)/128 + (Level*Agility)/128 + 2
Evade/2
Long Range
uses two hands
>Knives
M = (Level*Strength)/128 + (Level*Agility)/128 + 2
Evade/2

I think I'd change the str/agi part of the formula this way:
>Whips
M = (Level*Strength)/128 + (Level*Agility)/256 + 2
>Bows
M = (Level*Strength)/256 + (Level*Agility)/128 + 2
Evade/2
>Knives
If Agility > Strength, M = (Strength*Level)/256 + (Agility*Level)/128 + 2
Otherwise, M = (Strength*Level)/128 + (Agility*Level)/256 + 2

the knife one is the suggested fix in the stats/algorithms faq

[Anonymous No.6610076]

>>6609229
It had enough mass to stand on it and enough to pull like 10 cars also with lots of mass of their own.

[Anonymous No.6610120]

>>6609860
I don't know what all that math means, but I never liked how the magic jobs leveled up. Level 1 lets you use the first row of three magics. Level 2 lets you use up to the second row, level 3 is third row, etc. But if you just become that class you can use them all right from the get go. I didn't like how there wasn't anything cool to look forward to other than getting to use just three more spells each time.

I think it should have gone more like, level 1 lets you use the first two rows, level two of the class you get a different equipable ability (something unique to that class, different for each mage), then level 3 lets you use rows 3 and 4, level 4 is another ability, and then level 5 you can just learn the rest.

[Anonymous No.6610248]

>>6603807
So are tools, really.

[Anonymous No.6610301]

>>6609217
>Zell last
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEjtJ-Tfsw

[Anonymous No.6610309]

>>6610120
>I don't know what all that math means,
A=Attack
D=Defense
M=Multiplier
The damage formula is (A-D)*M.

Different weapons and attacks use different multipliers.
Level is usually part of the M formula, while the stats multiplied by the level tend to change.

So a level 99 Butz with 51 Strength has an "M" of 41 when attacking with Swords, Axes, Spears, Katanas, because "M = (Level*Strength)/128 + 2"
That multiplier with a weapon like the Brave Blade(150 Attack) gives him a damage of 6150 against a 0 defense enemy..
Excalibur(110)=4510
A Broad Sword(15 attack) =615 damage,

A Butz with lvl 99, 51 strenghth and 40 agility, would have an "M" of 72 while using the "correct" formula for knives.
Currently only the Chicken Knife uses that original formula.

>lvl 99, 51 strength, 40 agility
>chicken knife(127 Attack) deals 9144 damage
>Brave Blade(150 Attack) deals 6150 damage

[Anonymous No.6610527]

>>6602430
Only after playing FFIV recently did I realize how little time you get to play as dark knight Cecil.

Thank fuck you can at least get the Darkness skill back in the 3D remake.

[Anonymous No.6610678]

>>6602415
Which Saint Seiya game is this from?

[Anonymous No.6612345]

>>6609217
how the fuck Yang is better than Sabin in anything ?

[Anonymous No.6612430]

>>6609217
Since there seems to be some difficulty understanding my rankings, let me expound.

Do the mechanics of FF6 beat FF4? Sure. Blitz kicks the shit out of Kick any day of the week. Amarant's Flair is better than both. Zell's spammable Limit Breaks trumps everyone else on the list. Sabin lifted a ghost train, Tifa suplexed a ghost boat, Zell ran around the entire world in 2 seconds. But this wasn't a critique of which game has the highest power levels based on their mechanics or the cinematic fluff of their attacks, it was a comparison of who the best martial artist is.

Yang is the highest martial artist in his entire world. Both Sabin and Tifa have people better than them, but are formally trained by martial arts masters. Amarant and Zell are just mercenaries that happen to fight unarmed. Hence: Yang > Tifa > Sabin > Amarant > Zell

[Anonymous No.6612465]

>>6612345
Yang became a king. Sabin was a pussy bitch who ran away from being a king and abandoned his duty.

[Anonymous No.6612476]

>>6612430
>Yang is the highest martial artist in his entire world.
This isn't as good of an argument as you think it is, since different worlds have different levels of martial artists.
Yang is from a relatively primitive time, in an insular kingdom, while Tifa is from a global society. The martial artists of the FF7 world ought to be better than the martial artists of the ff4 world, since there are more people and more people doing them and traveling and testing those skills further. Just like martial arts today are better than those from 500 years ago.

[Anonymous No.6612504]

Yang is definitely better than Tifa. Tifa is some ex tour guide cowgirl that works at a bar full time. She does some martial arts in the same way people in the 90s did Tae-Bo.

Yang grew up in a society built around martial arts. He lived it, he breathed it, from the time he was born. Everyone in his kingdom competed to be the best and he achieved it. He was the grand master of kung fu in Fabul, and he did it full time, it was his life.

[Anonymous No.6612629]

>>6612476
Being from a primitive world doesn't mean that their martial arts is worse or better. You can't compare them. For all we know, the greatest grand masters in Wutai are apprentice level in Fabul. Maybe grand masters in Fabul wouldn't rate street fighter level in Balamb. That's not knowable. What IS knowable is how they stack up in their own universes.

[Anonymous No.6612698]

>>6612629
Yes it does.
We know this from the real world, more information, more training leads to better results. Yang is just a master of a traditional martial art, while Tifa and Zell are exposed to more tested methods.
>What IS knowable is how they stack up in their own universes.
Then Yang is even worse off because of weak he is compared to the other party members, and how strong the other martial artists are.

[Anonymous No.6613045]

>>6612698
You can't compare to the real world. Ancient knowledge has been lost to time. We can't possibly know in full detail what all the old masters knew. Their techniques get passed down through the generations, but may be watered down versions today of what they originally taught.

[Anonymous No.6613247]

Everyone's stats at level 50.

YANG
>HP: 4447
>MP: 0
>STR: 65
>SPD: 27
>STA: 56
>INT: 2
>SPI: 3

TIFA
>HP: 3333-3468
>MP: 398-423
>STR: 65-72
>DEX: 50-57
>VIT: 60-67
>MAG: 60-67
>SPI: 63-70

ZELL
>HP: 2212
>MP: N/A
>STR: 32
>SPD: 28
>STA/VIT: 25
>MAG: 29
>SPI: 20

SABIN
>HP: 3737
>MP: 580
>STR: 47
>SPD: 37
>STA: 39
>MAG: 28
>MDE: 21

AMARANT
>HP: 3498
>MP: 186
>STR: 41
>SPD: 27
>STA: N/A
>MAG: 32
>SPI: 24


Tifa has the overall best stats across the board and Zell is universally the weakest. But outside them Yang is the physically strongest and healthiest, Amarant, Zell and Sabin are all about equal in terms of casting magic, and for some reason Sabin has the beefiest MP. In terms of who's the best martial artist, I'd say mechanically, it goes:

Tifa > [Power Gap] > Yang > [Power Gap] > Sabin > Amarant > Zell

Sabin's HP, DEX and STR hedge out Amarant's slightly better casting stats, and Zell is just trash.

[Anonymous No.6613301]

>>6613247
Yes, but only one of them can break 9999 damage.

[Anonymous No.6613308]

>>6613247
Again, refer to >>6610301
Also
>Zell weakest
*Laughs in junctioning*

[Anonymous No.6613317]

>>6613308
>Zell with two people backing him up and spamming items on him is strong if the enemy never attacks him because he only has 1hp!
Who is that not true of?

[Anonymous No.6613324]

>>6613317
He only needs one limit break and it's over.

[Anonymous No.6613337]

>>6613324
Isn't that true of almost all of them? Except, Zell needs to be in critical HP (same with Sabin). Tifa and Amarant can limit break from full HP. And again, this is all immaterial. We're arguing which game has stronger mechanics now, not which is the strongest character. Lorewise Zell is the weakest, statwise he's the weakest. And honestly, even game mechanicwise, Tifa beats him 100 out of 100 times because Materia shits all over GFs.

>Sneak Attack + Knights of the Round
>Final Attack + Master Revive
>etc.