/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6529705]

Why did it tank so hard?

Better graphics than ps1 and n64

Better anti aliasing than ps2

Over a year head start on the next gen

[Anonymous No.6529713]

>>6529705
>>/vr/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=why+did+the+dreamcast+fail

[Anonymous No.6529729]

>burn all customer good will
>burn all relationships with retailers
>burn all relationships with 3rd party devs
>one of the most popular consumer electronics devices in history releases 10 months later
Sega was DOA by the time the Dreamcast was launched. The thing could have sucked your dick and it would've failed.

[Anonymous No.6529734]

>>6529729
sega games are really cool though

[Anonymous No.6529737]

>>6529734
They are, and the Dreamcast was a great console outside of its shit controller. But like I said, it didn't matter. Sega's business practices in the mid 90's tanked the company.

[Anonymous No.6529740]

>>6529737
i really have no idea how the 32x and cd even happened. i have no idea how they managed to fumble more often and recover worse than nintendo

[Anonymous No.6529746]

>>6529705
consumers chose to wait for the PS2 and Sega was selling the hardware at loss

if Sega had the money it probably would have sold like 15~20 million units LTD by the end of the generation, bad, but not that bad

[Anonymous No.6529750]

>>6529740
They did a lot of things right with the Dreamcast but they fucked it all up so badly in the Saturn days that it didn't matter. If Nintendo has lackluster sales on a console they can still fall back on shit like Mario and Zelda games. Might be a different story if Sega had applied that strategy during the Saturn's lifespan.

[Anonymous No.6529868]

>>6529734
to certain people, sure
sega held onto arcade style gameplay while everyone else was moving on to more complex forms

[Anonymous No.6529871]

>>6529750
if they completely focused on making good games for the saturn, maybe they would have stood a chance

[Anonymous No.6529903]

>>6529705
>embarrassingly shit-tier controller
>80% of the library is arcade trash or sidegrade ports nobody cared about
>exclusives that were barely acceptable at the time and aged like milk
The tiny handful of good ports it had weren't enough to save it.

[Anonymous No.6529908]

>>6529705
you already know you stupid faggot
just fucking make a dreamcast thread you don't have to even stealth one this is where they're supposed to be fuck's sake i hate you cunts

[Anonymous No.6529912]

>>6529903
>>embarrassingly shit-tier controller

This. I thought the N64 controller was bad until I tried this thing.

>>80% of the library is arcade trash or sidegrade ports nobody cared about

Yup. I'd say SEGA should have blocked lazy releases, but they probably needed all the games they could get. WWF Royal Rumble is maybe one of the worst examples, as it was a simple arcade to console port with no changes to factor in the fact that it's a console game now. (Like adding a bigger roster or a proper single player season mode) It's seriously one of the laziest games ever made and I hope it didn't cost $50 at release.

>>exclusives that were barely acceptable at the time and aged like milk

I played SA1 and SA2 on the Gamecube and thought they sucked, but some Sonicfag tried to convince me they were better on the DC - nope, still the same shitty games.

[Anonymous No.6529917]

>>6529705
everysingle videogame magazine in Europe, when they review a Dreamcast game they supposed in everysingle review that you ALREADY play it on psx or you already own a PSX.

That is the reason.

[Anonymous No.6529924]

>>6529917
Type that out again and properly this time, ESL

[Anonymous No.6529927]

>>6529903
the dualshock (1997) instantly obsoleted any subsequent controller that didn't have two analog sticks

[Anonymous No.6529934]

>>6529924
here you go;
>When every single video game magazine in Europe reviewed a Dreamcast game, they suggest that you've ALREADY played it on psx, or otherwise that you already own a PSX.
>That is the reason.

>>6529917
Hope i got that right.

[Anonymous No.6529935]

>>6529912
Jet Grind Radio was the only stand-out exclusive that really blew me away. I enjoyed Sonic Adventure at release, but coming back to it now, it feels mechanically broken and unplayable. Meanwhile I can jump right into SM64, and after ~30 minutes, everything clicks back into place and it's like I never stopped playing it. It's incredibly intuitive.
>>6529927
The thumb shredding stick, and herpes bumps on the face buttons certainly didn't help.

[Anonymous No.6530030]

>>6529705
>Better anti aliasing than ps2
I don’t think a single Dreamcast game uses anti-aliasing. The only form of AA supported by PowerVR2 is supersampling.

[Anonymous No.6530485]

>>6529903
very underage post.

[Anonymous No.6530495]

>>6529705
Mismanagement at Sega. Bernie Stolar is solely to blame.

[Anonymous No.6530498]

>>6529740
CD was OK and people could get over the 32x.

What really killed Sega was them killing the Saturn in 1997 by openly declaring that it "wasnt Segas future" and stopping new game releases soon after.
Imagine forking out $ on launch for the most expensive console in 1995 and then seeing Sega just kill 2 years later...

[Anonymous No.6530527]

>>6530498
SoA's bad will tactics really hurt everyone, Dreamcast was far from a US release at that point and the whole Japan gets things around a year earlier was still in full effect. Bernie fucked up bad. At that point it was clear the Saturn wasn't shaping up to be competitive in 3D space and instead of focusing on what it could do they just shut down which was a huge mistake.

Dreamcast itself was selling very well and was on track to perform solidly in the following generation. While obviously the goal never could be to topple the PS2 it should have been a goal to get the console in every home, right next to a PS2 like Microsoft had as their strategy.

[Anonymous No.6530538]

>>6530495
Stolar was severly moronic, true; his burning hatred for anything 2D animu killed the Saturn (and would ultimately cause Sega to leave hardware), but SoJ are definitely not blameless.

It was SoJ who idiotically throttled the Mega Drive by excessive deletion of board traces in the process of cost-optimization.
It was SoJ who was perfectly fine with a 4-hour continuous game time on the Game Gear when the GameBoy offered 12.
It was SoJ who didn't send a Sega CD over to the US (forcing SoA to build one from a breadboard PCB and a random CD-ROM), who sent the dev manuals a month after launch, and only in Japanese.
It was SoJ who refused to share its devtools with SoA, forcing SoA to come up with GEMS.
It was SoJ who kept insisting on launching a Genesis+, despite the Saturn being less than two years away.

[Anonymous No.6530559]

>>6530538
On the flipside, Kalinske's SoA was guilty of not exercising any form of quality control, accepting any random Genesis shovelware in the race to pad out its library.
It was also guilty of tunnel vision-ing on FMVs, despite discovering relatively early on that the gameplay experience of FMV games was mediocre with only a few exceptions.

[Anonymous No.6530580]

>ctrl+f piracy
>nothing
lol okay
don't accept any responsibility for what you did
very on brand

[Anonymous No.6530582]

>>6530538
>>6530559
Can we all agree that Sega killed Sega? Like seriously, the 80s were Nintendo’s decade but the 90s were handed to Sega on a silver platter and they managed to fuck up on almost every single step of the way.

[Anonymous No.6530607]

>>6529705
looks like poorly made euro trash

[Anonymous No.6530608]

>>6530580
Ah yes the piracy meme. The thing that everybody claims made PS1 a success but killed the Dreamcast. Funny how that works and isn't just hindsight bias!

[Anonymous No.6530625]

>>6530608
psx piracy was difficult compared to dreamcast piracy, the psx was a success due to marketing, a large library, and arriving at exactly the right time to harness an emerging market
if piracy made the psx successful, it would have been successful in eastern europe, which it wasn't
regardless, you seem personally offended by my statement, so i won't expect anything but an emotionally charged shitpost of a reply

[Anonymous No.6530626]

>>6529705
How many fucking times do we need this thread?
>strained consumer trust in Japan by killing the Saturn and a botched Japanese launch because NEC had a chip shortage
>massively in debt that they could only pay off by exiting the hardware business and relying on Isao Okawa's own money they inherited after his death
>frivolous spending on amusement parks
>money dumped into early development with 3DO variant they had to kill off because 3DO broke NDAs by blabbing to the press
>massive hype train from the PS2
>Nakiyama already planning on a hardware exit strategy by 1997
Dreamcast was basically a hail mary pass from across the other end of a field, and the odds were stacked against it from almost the beginning.
>>6529729
>burn all customer good will
In Japan, yes. Saturn was a moderate success there and when Sega announced they were killing it off due to its failure overseas, it just gave them a reason to wait for the PS2. In America there was hype for it, the only goodwill burnt off was for the Saturn and that was becuase of Stollar.
>retailer*
ftfy. The only retailer pissed at Sega was KB Toys. Walmart, Best Buy, and Toys R Us had no issue supporting Dreamcast.
>all relationships with EA
ftfy
>>6530495
Stollar fucked up the Saturn yes, but it was also Stollar who came up with the 9-9-99 marketing campaign and wanted the DC to retail at $200.
>>6530580
>MUH PIRACY
Fuck off with this refuted meme. By the time CD ROM piracy hit the DC Sega had already made forward the decision to exit the hardware business. Moreover, PS1 had piracy out the ass in many markets by 1999 and it did fuck all, and let's not even get into the land of pirated games for computers like the Amiga where most users' libraries consisted of cracked games. Literally not a single console has died from pirated games.

[Anonymous No.6530628]

>>6530626
butthurt thief

[Anonymous No.6530631]

>>6530625
>psx piracy was difficult compared to dreamcast piracy
Again, DC piracy with CDs didn't become a thing until Sega already made plans to leave the industry. For the first couple of years no one knew how pirate games or rip data from GD ROMS. And when it did become possible it's not like you could download dozens of games in a few minutes; many people were still confined to dial up modems and downloading a single game could take an entire afternoon, and even then the method of burning games wasn't perfected and not using the exact settings resulted in an unreadable disc.
t. anon who tried pirating DC games in 2001 and got blank discs because I was tech illiterate
>>6530628
revisionist zoomer, please kys.

[Anonymous No.6530634]

>>6530631
>downloading
>burning
>downloading
>burning
>blank discs
>zoomer
lmao
you would buy games at the market for 50c

[Anonymous No.6530639]

>>6530625
>if piracy made the psx successful, it would have been successful in eastern europe, which it wasn't
More like eastern europe was still a shithole post communism and engulfed in small wars, and people couldn't afford consoles with full priced games sold at a ridiculous markup, fucktard.

[Anonymous No.6530640]

>>6530634
>you would buy games at the market for 50c
Yeah because >>6530639

[Anonymous No.6530645]

>>6529729
>burn all relationships with 3rd party devs
This is not true. Capcom supported the console a lot. But I agree they needed EA and gta games in it.

[Anonymous No.6530647]

>>6530645
>gta games in it
Except GTA was still a niche franchise and even then they got a port of GTA2.

[Anonymous No.6530653]

>>6529871
There were good Saturn games, but a good chunk of the library was Japan only and never got localized.

[Anonymous No.6530682]

>>6530645
GTA3 was going to be on Dreamcast before Peter Moore said they were going to kill the console in early 2001.

>yfw in an alternate reality GTA3 saved the DC had Sega kept it alive a little longer

[Anonymous No.6530745]

>cable outlet at the bottom
unironically, what the fuck were they thinking

[Anonymous No.6530769]

[Anonymous No.6530772]

>>6530626
>wanted the DC to retail at $200
and that wasn't a good move in hindsight, Sega was losing money with every unit. cutting the price to $150 just a year later didn't help either

[Anonymous No.6530774]

>>6530769
But Stolar made the Dreamcast's launch in America awesome.

[Anonymous No.6530780]

>>6530626
>>MUH PIRACY
>Fuck off with this refuted meme.
Not anyone involved in this conversation so far, but piracy never seems to be the be-all-end-all killer, but it certainly doesn't help when it's particularly widespread.

Systems like the DC and PSP had piracy readily available in about a year's time. And in those cases, unlike PS1, it didn't require mod chips or other expensive hardware, and in the case of DC l, CD-Rs were relatively affordable in 2000.

So basically by the end of 2000 early 2001, Dreamcast sales and software volume are on a downward trend with the PS2 launch, and hard swings like the completive cost of the 2K sports games still can't compete against the Madden brand, and on top of that you have the looming threat of software piracy, which is highly visible because anyone with a Dreamcast can do it, even if they're dumb as rocks.

SEGA looks at that and it's just a money bleed, and you got to pull the plug.

If maybe one of those things hadn't been so rough, like the PS2 launch was only middling and their 2001 lineup just OK, and the 2K sports brand really took off, or there wasn't a highly publicised easy way to pirate that lost developer and publisher trust, Sega maybe would have stuck it out one more year, but still they would have failed with everything stacked against them.

[Anonymous No.6530793]

>>6530682
Interesting to think about an early version of gta 3 running on dreamcast. I wonder if we'll ever see anything from it, even an image.

[Anonymous No.6530810]

>>6530780
I don't know why everybody keeps making up these wild reasons why the Dreamcast failed when Sega's own research said it was the PS1 which killed it, not the PS2, piracy or anything else.

I think it must be some sort of refusal among gaming enthusiasts to believe that the unwashed masses would prefer a console with *much* worse graphics. The same happened again with the Wii.

[Anonymous No.6530815]

>>6530780
>Systems like the DC and PSP had piracy readily available in about a year's time. And in those cases, unlike PS1, it didn't require mod chips or other expensive hardware, and in the case of DC l, CD-Rs were relatively affordable in 2000.
>and on top of that you have the looming threat of software piracy, which is highly visible because anyone with a Dreamcast can do it
And like I pointed to here >>6530631 and >>6530626 piracy had barely any effect on the DC's success seeing as it didn't come around until the system was clearly a money sink Sega couldn't afford to support, and even then it wasn't like every single DC owner could as lots of people were confined to dial up modems and even if they had to burners and CDRs they was still a process to follow that could fuck up your discs if you didn't burn shit right. In the PSP's case, despite its widespread easy piracy, it was still moderate success. It only lagged behind the DS because for the first couple of years devs were treating it like a handheld PS2 and trying to cram games on it that weren't suited to it. Once devs started putting games on it that catered to its portable nature it began to pick up steam in the face of rampant piracy.

Piracy has never killed a system. Again, look at the Amiga, another system with widespread cracked games and that died from corporate incompetency

[Anonymous No.6530820]

>>6530810
>it was the PS1 which killed it, not the PS2
The PS2 hype killed it in the since it seemed like a better offer to wait for that instead of buying a Dreamcast. The install base from PS1 and back compat with PS2 didn't help either.

A general way of looking at it is that Sony in general killed the Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.6530823]

>>6530820
*sense

[Anonymous No.6530827]

>>6530820
>The PS2 hype killed it in the since it seemed like a better offer to wait for that instead of buying a Dreamcast
Again, that isn't what Sega's research revealed. Most people expected the PS2 to be expensive and out of their reach in the short term anyway.

But you are right about one thing. It wasn't the DVD playback that sold the PS2 early on, it was the BC with the PS1.

[Anonymous No.6530832]

>>6530745
It's much more ergonomic. How the fuck do you cretins hold your controllers where a bottom cord is an issue? Controllers are supposed to be held like this.

[Anonymous No.6530841]

>>6530745
Doesn't really matter, since you have a cable clip on the back, near the front end of the pad.

[Anonymous No.6530851]

>>6530827
I mean, it may be Sega's research, but also remember that it was Sega's retardation (both Japan and America) that led to their downfall.
>Most people expected the PS2 to be expensive and out of their reach in the short term anyway.
Yeah, I remember that brief period where PS2s were in short supply and being scalped for thousands on the second hand market. Coupled with its lackluster launch games it seemed like it would tank. But then the fall and holiday 2001 lineup of GTA III, MGS2, FFX, etc. began to roll out and it was obvious Sony had won.

[Anonymous No.6530943]

Sony dumped so much money into Shenmue that it fucked itself out of the hardware market when Shenmue turned out to not be very good.

[Anonymous No.6530948]

>>6530832
In my lap, with the top (and thus the cable on 99% of controllers with a cable) facing away from me. Do you hold it up in front of you like a steering wheel?

[Anonymous No.6530953]

>>6530943
>Sony dumped so much money into Shenmue

[Anonymous No.6530959]

>>6530953
Sega is so irrelevant, and I'm so retarded, that I forgot their name.

[Anonymous No.6530965]

>>6530948
>Do you hold it up in front of you like a steering wheel?
If I'm sitting on my couch, yes. If I'm sitting in my office chair, my elbows are on the armrest. If it isn't out in front of you, how the fuck do you see the buttons while you're playing a game?

[Anonymous No.6530976]

>>6530965
The buttons don't move, man. I already know where they are. Do you look at the controller instead of the screen?

[Anonymous No.6530982]

>>6529868
What do you mean complex forms? Arcade experiences and games are straight up better. What complex forms do yoj even mean

[Anonymous No.6530984]

>>6529705
People were able to pirate the games after the first week.

[Anonymous No.6530992]

>>6530982
I guess the same thing SegaLordX mentioned in his video about Sega's later years. Games with an overarching story, plot, more "cinematic" experiences, rather than emulating the "pop a coin in and start blasting; story? what's that" gameplay of arcade-style games.

[Anonymous No.6530993]

>>6530976
I look at both. Most people do this, don't even start on me with that elitist shit.

[Anonymous No.6530996]

>>6530992
Thats so lame. Look where focus on that shit has taken video games....

[Anonymous No.6531000]

>>6530993
>most people do this
No dude.

[Anonymous No.6531004]

>>6530993
I've been playing video games for literal decades, dude, I haven't needed to look at a controller to use it since I was about five years old. I'm pretty sure most people here are going to be the same way.

[Anonymous No.6531008]

>>6530582
> the 90s were handed to Sega on a silver platter and they managed to fuck up on almost every single step of the way.
Very sad, and very true. It's shocking how many single decisions on either SoA or SoJ's side might have had quite a different outcome regarding Sega's fate.

[Anonymous No.6531012]

>>6531000
>>6531004
Most people aren't speedrunners.

[Anonymous No.6531018]

>>6531012
What the fuck are you even saying

[Anonymous No.6531037]

>>6530984
>People were able to pirate the games after the first week.
Wrong.
>>6530992
>SegaLordX
How can anyone listen to that faggot.

[Anonymous No.6531054]

>>6531037
He says a lot of wrong things, like how SoJ could do no evil, and it was only SoA's fault, but he does have a handful valid points.

[Anonymous No.6531063]

>>6531054
Well I haven't watched his videos in years, but the first ones I saw a couple of years ago were aggravating because of how his oratory style oscillated from autistic 6th grader reading book report to 3rd rate AVGN.

[Anonymous No.6531213]

>>6531054
he's a damn fine reviewer and his videos are an absolute joy to watch.

[Anonymous No.6531214]

>>6531037
You don't have to; there's enough other content to catch your limited attention span

[Anonymous No.6531225]

>>6531214
what other content?

[Anonymous No.6531271]

The Sega Dreamcast had to sell 2 titles per console sold to break even. It couldn't do that. It tried too hard to be the second PS1 when it should have just been a Sega console.

[Anonymous No.6531286]

how did the saturn get so many games despite its short lifespan?

[Anonymous No.6531292]

>>6531286
Managed to cater towards arcade sensibilities and being a 2D powerhouse which were still popular in Japan, part of why it was a moderate success there but no where else.

[Anonymous No.6531295]

>>6529705
PS1 hands down won the previous generation, and had delivered the transition from 2d to 3D gaming that most, at the time, wanted to see.

That built up huge brand loyalty. PS1 gamers were looking to see what Sony would do next, and when it was an improved console AND a DVD player (new tech at the time, when we had all been using VCRs up till then), then there was little chance any PS1 gamer would go back to Sega.

Sega had become synonymous with bungled launches and unpopular consoles by that point, and it didn't have a Pokemon cash cow to keep it afloat. I really wanted to Dreamcast to succeed, but I wouldn't have bought one over a PS2.

[Anonymous No.6531297]

>>6531292
sounds like the saturn is way more worth owning than the dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6531302]

>>6531297
Considering how emulation for it is still a pain in the ass and lots of its best tiles have been ported nowhere else, it kind of is.

[Anonymous No.6531319]

>>6531302
dc emulation isnt that great either

[Anonymous No.6531361]

>>6531297
Yeah there aren't 300 buckerinos worth titles like panzer saga and silvergun on the dc

[Anonymous No.6531382]

>>6531286
thanks to being a moderate success in japan it got a fuckton of arcade ports (fighting, shmups), lots of jarpigs and lots of VNs ports from PCs. saturn has the largest library of officially released games out of all sega systems

[Anonymous No.6531392]

>>6531297
Depends, if you want 2D platformers and more/better shmups, you'd want Saturn. If you want more/better fighting games, racing games, JRPGs and 3D platformers, go with the DC.

[Anonymous No.6531393]

>>6530580
This is what computer devs and shitty corporate companies tell themselves. Is that you nakano? Those evil pirates are the only reason dreamcast has a legacy.

[Anonymous No.6531398]

>>6531392
>dc
ps2

[Anonymous No.6531402]

My favourite console ever.

[Anonymous No.6531403]

>>6530996
get your head out of your ass. the last of us 2 just dropped and its already being considered one of the greatest games ever.

[Anonymous No.6531409]

>>6531403
>the last of us 2 just dropped and its already being considered one of the greatest games ever by retards and soiboys with shit taste
Forgot to finish your post there anon.

[Anonymous No.6531413]

>>6531403
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.6531496]

>>6529729
they needed to delay the system until 2000, release it with a DVD drive and 64MB of RAM, and keep the Saturn on the market the whole time. The Saturn could've became a profitiable enterprise for Sega had they played their cards right. In reality, so could the 32x, had they just discontinued the original Genesis and went on with the Neptune as the base Genesis. But then again, could've went even better if they just would've designed the Saturn around Genesis and 32x compatibility to begin with- they totally could've had multiple platforms at the same time if they weren't fucking idiots about it. And doing all of this would've given them time to release the Saturn with better games in the US. Could've tried a little harder to court third parties like Square too.

[Anonymous No.6531515]

>>6531496
Thesaturn even had a cart slot. Just make it able to play 32x games from there. Support saturn until at least 1999. Put a dvd player in dreamcast.
Maybe even make it backwards compat with saturn discs

[Anonymous No.6531523]

>>6531515
All of this stuff would be less expensive than what sega went through in reality

[Anonymous No.6531539]

>>6531496
>>6531523
Wrong.

Adding components would've been even costlier and Sega would've probably not even released it. More over one of the reasons Saturn tanked was Sega was losing money on each unit sold because of all the internals that were outsourced.
>>6531515
Thing is Saturn did limp along in Japan during 1999, but they really should've at least made last in America that long. Probably would've if Stollar hadn't done the whole "not our future" bullshit in 1997.
>Maybe even make it backwards compat with saturn discs
Look at the internals of the Saturn and Dreamcast to see how retardedly impossible that would've been. The system would require putting in the frankensteined Saturn architecture and would've basically been at the original launch PS3 price if they tried that.

[Anonymous No.6531542]

>>6531037
>>6531054
>>6531214
>>6530992
>>6530996
Segalord is a cringelord who has the typical fanboy problem of "It make Saturn look bad? It bad. It make Saturn look good? It good.", regardless of the quality or facts.

[Anonymous No.6531608]

>>6531213
>>6531063
sega boomer is great to watch imo but yes he is definitely just as autistic as anyone here. He definitely lurks here, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.6531623]

>>6531539
consoles are always selling for a loss though, that's part of the industry. They needed to play things right at launch, honestly the goal from the beginning should've just been an enhanced Mega Drive with a built in Sega CD and two SH2s, instead of the Saturn being it's own platform. But Sega had to fuck things up.. I don't think they would had to "add" any components really though, desu. Dreamcast hardware was almost fine as it was, but Sega's whole shtick was they were the most cutting edge.. Idk, the Saturn could've still been successful and so could the Dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6531664]

>>6529705
>Better graphics than ps1 and n64
>6th Gen console has better graphics than 5th Gen consoles
This isn't something you should feel the need to celebrate

[Anonymous No.6531695]

>>6531664
Dreamcast would have been better if it came out in 1998 (in the west)

[Anonymous No.6531702]

>>6531695
>>6531664
Sorry, I meant, "more impressive"

[Anonymous No.6531717]

>>6530625
i don't think it's completely accurate to say "psx piracy was difficult compared to dreamcast piracy"
with psx games, you can borrow/hire a disc, put it in your cd-rom drive, make an image, burn it onto a cd-r, and do a swap trick to boot it on an unmodified console. this works for any model and any game
while with the dreamcast, you can borrow/hire a disc, put it in your dismantled cd-rom drive which has been tricked by a specially-made cd-r so you can actually read the whole gd-rom, dump the game, possibly have to remove or transcode music and videos to make the game smaller than a cd-r, do whatever is needed to make it a self-boot (assuming that exists yet), then burn it to a cd-r
i don't know what was available before self-boots, but they weren't a thing early on, some people think the dreamcast had no copy protection, because they can /now/ burn an image and have it just work, but those are specially-made self-booting rips, not straight unmodified discs
sure, you could have downloaded some games back in the day to avoid doing it yourself, but most people, including myself, had dialup, and downloading cd-sized images on dialup took fucking days

[Anonymous No.6531758]

>>6530943
>Sony dumped so much money into Shenmue that it fucked itself out of the hardware market when Shenmue turned out to not be very good.
Completely wrong on all counts.

[Anonymous No.6531761]

>>6531702
Doesn't really matter how you word it. A next-gen console having more impressive graphics is expected and the absolute minimum.

[Anonymous No.6531778]

>>6531623
>consoles are always selling for a loss though
There's a difference between selling at a loss and what Sega was doing, which was selling at a loss so great they could actually benefit from having less units manufactured and thus less retailers stocking less units of the hardware.
>honestly the goal from the beginning should've just been an enhanced Mega Drive with a built in Sega CD and two SH2s, instead of the Saturn being it's own platform.
So basically the already hodgepodge Saturn design with Mega Drive and Sega CD compatibility.
>I don't think they would had to "add" any components really though, desu.
If they wanted to Saturn back compat into the Dreamcast, yes they would.
>>6531542
He's also one of those pretentious Sega autists who thinks he's above enjoying or even acknowledging Sonic.

[Anonymous No.6531784]

>>6531717
Before self boots you would burn the utopia boot disc and run that first then swap with your burned game.

[Anonymous No.6531793]

>>6531784
that name sounds familiar, thanks for clarifying

[Anonymous No.6531803]

>>6529705
>Better graphics than ps1 and n64
How is this a selling point lmao

[Anonymous No.6531883]

>>6530625
The playstation was big in Brazil because of piracy.

[Anonymous No.6531915]

>>6531883
I think the piracy situation is a bit different in Brazil. It's not like people in the US never used mod chips but you couldn't just go to a retail shop and get one put in your console. It's like Asia tier there except during the 16 bit days people were probably too poor to own copiers which explains the countless pirate carts that came from Brazil.

[Anonymous No.6532005]

it came out a number of years after those two systems. of course the graphics were better

[Anonymous No.6532015]

>>6531778
Oh yeah, but that would've been silly. Dreamcast needed to be a clean slate.

[Anonymous No.6533443]

>>6531778
Ironically, had the beancounters not removed the extra connections from the board during cost-optimization, Sega could have had a sort of proto-Saturn as early as 1992.

[Anonymous No.6533459]

>>6529705
You don't understand how big of a deal the PS2 was. Play Station Motherfucking Two. The god damn sequel to the play station. You know how in every hyped franchise, the 2nd entry is often the most hyped during its time, because it's THE sequel. MK2, MGS2, Pokemon 2nd gen, Smash Bros Melee, you name it. This was that, but on steroids. Everyone else was doomed. Nintendo only stayed alive because it's Nintendo, and Xbox only survived because Microsoft had orders of magnitude more money than Sega.

[Anonymous No.6533468]

What's funny is that the Dreamcast has about as many games as the Gamecube. And the Gamecube has a lot of downgraded ports from the PS2 making up its catalog.

[Anonymous No.6533473]

>>6529912
>Sonicfag tried to convince me they were better on the DC
As a Sonic fan, I'll tell you that person was really dumb to say that. The Dreamcast have better lighting and arguably other better visuals, but the gameplay is about the same. If you thought they sucked on GameCube, you really didn't need to play them on Dreamcast cause they're basically the same game

[Anonymous No.6534468]

>>6529705
Sega was in debt when it came out. They decided to can it instead of continue making it. That really is the primary factor. It was a success.

[Anonymous No.6534472]

>>6529912
What's wrong with arcade games?

[Anonymous No.6534475]

>>6533468
>downgraded
>ports from ps2
??????

[Anonymous No.6534568]

>>6529705
I love Sega but boy they were too deep in shit to make Dreamcast their saving grace

[Anonymous No.6534668]

>>6534468
I remember they had a lawsuit against K-Mart at the time because they wouldn't pay them. They had all kinds of trouble and a successful console wasn't enough to fix it.

[Anonymous No.6534691]

>>6534468
>Sega was in debt when it came out.
No thanks to the Shiturn.

[Anonymous No.6534702]

>>6534691
saturn is better than dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6534715]

>>6534702
Better at sucking ass, yeah.

[Anonymous No.6534721]

>>6534715
it has better games and more of them

[Anonymous No.6534732]

If we ignore the optical drive limitations that make a Gamecube's media look spacious, could you fucking imagine late gen ports to this thing? Generally worse performance than a PS2, one analog stick, a gig to play with, the works. It would've been a disaster.

[Anonymous No.6534760]

>>6534732
500mb more? Wow that's so much! Spacious indeed.

[Anonymous No.6534768]

>>6534760
>Half a GD-ROM's capacity again

[Anonymous No.6534769]

>>6534721
Apparently not enough 'better games' to keep it from flopping in the west and having lukewarm reception at best even in its homeland.

I think you're just coping, Saturncuck.

[Anonymous No.6534772]

>>6534768
I know right that makes a huge difference when the competition has 4.7GB to work with.

[Anonymous No.6534774]

>>6534772
It absolutely does, but it's also beside the point. The GC already missed out on a lot of games thanks to that media limitation, I'm just interested in how the DC's greater limitations in various areas would've caused problems if it had lasted longer.

[Anonymous No.6534779]

>>6534774
No need to worry about that Sega had a plan. The kind of plan that could only come from Sega.

[Anonymous No.6534782]

>>6534774
>The GC already missed out on a lot of games thanks to that media limitation
Th GameCube didn’t miss out on a single game due to media size. Not one game.

[Anonymous No.6534795]

>>6534769
it really doesnt amtter how a console performs when we're talking retro anon. have you seen the saturn library? its fun. why isnt that all that matters? i dont live in 1996 i live in 2020
in retrospect in 2020 the saturn has more to offer than the dc

[Anonymous No.6534808]

>>6529705
>Over a year head start
There's your problem. The late 90s and early 2000s were a time of unparalleled progress for 3D games - in four years we went from FF7 and Ocarina of Time to Counter-Strike and GTA3. Every single year was another leap and bound in 3D tech. PS1 and N64 launched at the beginning of that, and PS2/GCN launched at the end. Dreamcast launched right in the middle, designing system architecture that, while impressive compared to the previous paradigm, was already outdated when it was released. It's not their fault they had to wait - Sega would have gone bankrupt if they didn't release something. But it meant that they were a half-step behind in a time where a "step" would be the equivalent of multiple modern console generations now.

[Anonymous No.6534812]

>>6534808
I think that's part of what makes the Dreamcast so curious. It's more like the system to trounce the PS1, N64 and Saturn than the one to compete with the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube. The PS2 alone outstripped it, it would've been wildly outclassed if it had tried to stick around in the market.

[Anonymous No.6534813]

>>6534808
>system architecture that, while impressive compared to the previous paradigm, was already outdated when it was released
The Dreamcast was released in 1998 and the PowerVR2 GPU is more powerful than the most powerful GPU combination available that year - the Voodoo 2 SLI.

[Anonymous No.6535004]

Is dreamcast emulation good yet

[Anonymous No.6535019]

>>6535004
I've used Redream on Android a bit, surprisingly silky on a snapdragon 855 playing Episode I Racer. Much smoother than emulating the N64 version, in fact. If it can manage that, I'd imagine support on PC is at least half decent.

[Anonymous No.6535072]

>>6535019
I hope its more sorted than project64. I was surprised at the issues they have despite the size of the library

[Anonymous No.6535085]

>>6534808
>while impressive compared to the previous paradigm, was already outdated when it was released.
No zoomie, the original Dural design using using 3DFX voodoo tech would've been outdated. Luckily Sega scrapped that.

[Anonymous No.6535102]

DC failed because of the controller, it's as simple as that. Having the GD-ROM as the format didn't help either.

[Anonymous No.6536556]

>>6529705
The same reason all the greats like Tesla died alone and pennyless. too ahead of their time for their own good.

[Anonymous No.6536560]

>>6529908

[Anonymous No.6536579]

>>6534721
lmao

[Anonymous No.6536582]

>>6534808
terrible argument. ff7 and ocarina are still played and revered to this day.

[Anonymous No.6536592]

Sega funded their own internet traffic. That was the biggest money drain of it all. They could have made a subdivision for ISP, or have made a collaboration deal with already existing ISP. But no, they just paid for the servers. They literally threw their money away that they didn't need to. It was not Shenmue, it wasn't piracy, it wasn't EA leaving them, but a colossally dumb series of business maldecisions instead.

[Anonymous No.6536653]

>>6536592
The entire history of Sega is a long string of colossally dumb business maldecisions.

[Anonymous !KEyCwN7BXE No.6537929]

[Deleted]

[Anonymous No.6537939]

>>6536592
They sold internet service through AT&T for Seganet in the US. I don't know how it worked in Europe or Japan. Hosting their own servers wasn't a terrible idea especially given the direction the industry moved in. They were just a few years too early. They mitigated it with the broadband adapter but as we know too little too late. MS did it right the first time around and everyone else played catch up.

[Anonymous No.6538327]

>>6531496
>so could the 32x, had they just discontinued the original Genesis and went on with the Neptune as the base Genesis
The 32x only existed in the first place because Sega of America wanted to keep the Genesis alive as long as possible since it was very profitable in the US. Sega of Japan and Sega of America fighting so much was a huge problem.

[Anonymous No.6538332]

>>6529927
The Dreamcast controller also had fewer buttons than the Saturn 3D controller, just awful.

[Anonymous No.6538348]

>>6530965
>how the fuck do you see the buttons
Is that you mom?

[Anonymous No.6538415]

>>6530832
>holding the controller out in front like an absolute sperg
it literally wasn't done for ergonomics anyway. the vmu meant there wasn't enough clearance at the top of the controller so they put it at the bottom

[Anonymous No.6538420]

>>6529705
Why did it tank? Because it’s NOT RETRO. >>>/v2k/ you stupid fucking zoombies

[Anonymous No.6538425]

>>6529705

there just wasnt any good games

[Anonymous No.6538445]

>>6538420
You are aware DC was released in 1998, right?

[Anonymous No.6538904]

>>6529705
Sega literally killed the system off intentionally. They ended production prematurely.
They had too many fuck ups in the past to continue in the console market. The dreamcast didn't even sell that badly, but it just didn't sell enough to make up for past mistakes

[Anonymous No.6538982]

>>6530832
>>6530948
Don't you hold it like this?

[Anonymous No.6539037]

>>6529705
PS2, that's really it. People like to blame the Saturn, but the Dreamcast had high adoption rates up until the PS2 was announced, at which point those adoption rates fell off a cliff. I know that the PS2 feels like an overstated answer, but it's the simple truth.

[Anonymous No.6539059]

>>6529740
CD is amazing addon because of scaler chip, they just went full retard on FMV dogshit instead making superior CD only games

[Anonymous !tvS0hUvAiY No.6539870]

reported and saged

[Anonymous No.6539883]

>>6529705
You left out some important considerations.
>one of the most insanely awful controllers known to man (VMU excepted)
>only games worth mentioning are first party

[Anonymous No.6539887]

>>6539883
It's really isn't that bad, other than the stupid cord placement. N64 controller is the worst by far.

[Anonymous No.6539897]

>>6539887
Noone is lionizing the N64 controller anon. That said the DC controller with its somehow-worse stick, cramped feel, sharp angles, and cheap shitty buttons is much worse.

[Anonymous No.6539985]

>>6529705
Even if Sega didn't fuck up like they did, the PS2 was simply more appealing.

[Anonymous No.6539993]

>>6531403
By the journos, that is. Fans don't seem to be happy.

[Anonymous No.6540009]

>company has financial problems
>looking for a killer app
>end up making the most expensive game at the time
>even if it was successful, they would still wouldn't recover their expenses

[Radiochan !154PCPFtWc No.6540142]

>>6538327
It was SOJ being afraid of the Jaguar. The Jaguar!

[Anonymous No.6540153]

>>6529705
Sega of America and Sega of Japan couldn't coordinate for shit. Killed the company.

[Anonymous No.6540201]

>just downloaded a dc emulator
>never played a sega console
These games are kind of ass guys. A lot of this stuff seems comparable or worse to stuff ive played on [redacted due to non retro] ,[redacted] and PSX. Hell id rather go back to the n64.

Are all sega consoles like thos? So far the only games ive enjoyed are shmups on the dreamcast. I also would like to play the lightgun stuff but dont have a way to set that up.

[Anonymous No.6540286]

>>6534475
GC disc capacity means many games had various assets compressed or cut from their release, better power be damned. And since every multi plat was tuned for PS2 first...

[Anonymous No.6540298]

>>6540009
What is a loss leader.
If Shenmue was a killer app, then you have another DC in another home. Then maybe they buy Hydro Thunder, or Crazy Taxi, because they had fun with it in the movie theater arcade. $40 mil is a bath, but a drop in the bucket compared to general console costs. Just look at the multiple billions that Sony and MS lost in PS3/360 before seeing profitability.

[Anonymous No.6541072]

>>6539887
>>6539883
I bought a Dreamcast last summer and playing it for the first time in my life, I had no issues with the controller. The N64 on the other hand still triggers the fuck out of me after using it for years.

[Anonymous No.6541150]

>>6529729
This plus Sony has better PR guys & more advertiser dollars. Sony PR lied to everyone and everyone listened, like good little goys.

[Anonymous No.6541160]

>>6540201
It's got some good arcade ports, Cannon Spike, Jojo, Castle Shikigami, Border Down, Dynamite Cop, POPN Music

[Anonymous No.6541169]

>>6541072
Dreamcast controller is a bastardization of this little beauty, the saturn 3D pad.

[Anonymous No.6541171]

>>6530580
>>6530625
lol piracy literally drove PS1 sales. it didn't take long for 4/5-wire modchips to appear on the market and they were easy to install, even with a radioshack soldering iron. after that, all you had to do was stop by blockbuster (or your favorite importer), rent what you want, copy and play. how do you think I played toukon retsuden? but hey, cool story bro.

[Anonymous No.6541172]

>>6541171
>just copy and play
CD-writers weren't common at that time you sperg

[Anonymous No.6541173]

The PS2 having a DVD player in it shot it up the charts.

[Anonymous No.6541182]

>>6541172
I had a psx as a kid and I must've had atleast 100 burnt games, cd burners were fairly common place. Piracy on psx was incredibly easy cuz you didn't even need to solder anything if you didnt want to, all you needed was a gameshark, a spring, and 1 real game

[Anonymous No.6541735]

Sega had taken out a lot of shit and the dreamcast expected me to get them out of the hole selling more than the playstation

[Anonymous No.6541736]

>>6529705
>Better anti aliasing than ps2
Such a system seller

[Anonymous No.6542293]

Wierd timing
Ps1 just happened to release some mega hits around the DC launch so people had to finish those games before moving onto the next gen. DC was killed to early, even the ps1 didn't get really popular until over 2 years after launch.

[Anonymous No.6542303]

>>6541172
By 97/98 they were. Think about the logistics of it. Even if cd burners were kind of expensive the discs were dirt cheap. As long as you knew a guy you could get burned games from him without having high speed internet or a burner.

[Anonymous No.6542309]

Two reasons:
Gamers got hooked on the style over substance bullshit that Sony and Nintendo were selling and the only big games for DC to drag that up was the fucking abysmal Sonic games. Therefore, when PS2 came out, DC had no chance because PS2 was filled with shallow, pretty, garbage games that the new generation of "gamers" loved.
Also, Sega fucked up big-time with mismanagement.
The DC was the last actual good console because except for that goddamn Sonic garbage, the library was fucking A+ tier compared to Sony and Nintendo's (and eventually Microsoft's) D- garbage.

[Anonymous No.6542315]

I think part of it had to be that it was another machine that delivered the arcade experience at home, problem was that arcades where dying back in those days.

[Anonymous No.6542317]

The answer is simple: Playstation 2.

[Anonymous No.6542320]

>>6529705
SoA existed

[Anonymous No.6542435]

>>6530538
>It was SoJ who refused to share its devtools with SoA, forcing SoA to come up with GEMS.

well that explains it, hence why 95% of US soil developed genesis titles sound like ass or have corny sound at best, and only the yurops escaped this since they were already familiar with their FM synth works on computers.

[Anonymous No.6542452]

>>6530815
>And like I pointed to here >>6530631 and >>6530626 piracy had barely any effect on the DC's success seeing as it didn't come around until the system was clearly a money sink Sega couldn't afford to support, and even then it wasn't like every single DC owner could or knew how to pirate stuff as lots of people were confined to dial up modems and even if they had the burners and CDRs, they was still a process to follow that could fuck up your discs if you didn't burn shit right. In the PSP's case, despite its widespread easy piracy, it was still moderate success. It only lagged behind the DS because for the first couple of years devs were treating it like a handheld PS2 and trying to cram games on it that really weren't suited to it. Once devs started putting games on it, that catered to its portable nature, it began to pick up steam in the face of rampant piracy.

Geez, had to sentence fix most of this, grammar nazi much or just shitphone poster?.

[Anonymous No.6542453]

>>6542309
>The DC was the last actual good console because except for that goddamn Sonic garbage, the library was fucking A+ tier compared to Sony and Nintendo's (and eventually Microsoft's) D- garbage.
It had too much weebshit trash. Xbox had fucking morrowind, mechassault, and the best ports of every multiplat games.

[Anonymous No.6542547]

>>6542293
1998 was peak 5th gen, who wanted to replace their system and have shitty launch titles when you had things like;
- spyro 1
- crash 3
- ocarina of time
- metal gear solid
- tekken 3
- resident evil 2
- panzer dragoon saga
- banjo-kazooie
etc that same year

[Anonymous No.6542556]

>>6542547
even in 1999 when the west got it, you'd still be better off in terms of available games by buying a playstation instead of a dreamcast
(i'd argue that you'd be better off with a playstation just in general, the dreamcast has some good games, but it can't compete with the playstation's selection)

[Anonymous No.6542565]

>>6542309
xbox is where all the sega games went

[Anonymous No.6543020]

>>6530538
>It was SoJ who idiotically throttled the Mega Drive by excessive deletion of board traces in the process of cost-optimization.
what does this mean?
>It was SoJ who kept insisting on launching a Genesis+, despite the Saturn being less than two years away.
honestly if anything I feel if SEGA were to only have done one of their two 32-Bit projects, it should have been the 32x as their only one, the Saturn was basically doomed no matter what while a 32x as SEGA's sole product in that area would have not only kept SEGA in the market it also would allow SEGA to focus their efforts on the Dreamcast and making it even better

[Anonymous No.6543041]

>>6535102
>>6536592
>>6539883
>>6542320
>when retards continue posting when answers have already been given
>>6543020
>honestly if anything I feel if SEGA were to only have done one of their two 32-Bit projects, it should have been the 32x as their only one,
No, a cancerous tumor that fell out of sync with the Genesis and barely capable of producing flat shaded polygons would've eaten even greater shit compared to the Playstation and N64. Sega should've scrapped 32X entirely.

And for the record: Sega of Japan were the ones who pitched the idea of a stop gap before the Saturn, all SoA did was design the 32X. It was the nexus of both divisions reaching peak retardation.
>the Saturn was basically doomed no matter what
No it wasn't. All Sega had to do was keep to the original launch dates of the Saturn in the US and Europe, and all SoJ had to do was lend SDKs to third parties so developers could navigate its fucked up architecture without jumping through hoops.
>>6542452
>grammar nazi much
You're the one who's correcting what I posted. Thanks anyway faggot.

[Anonymous No.6543074]

>>6543041
Sony still would have done the lower launch price which would have doomed the Saturn no matter what;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZL8V36tXK4

[Anonymous No.6543493]

>>6529705
>why did it tank so hard?
no planet harriers port
JRPG shortage (JRPGS push sales especially in japan)
didnt let sonic team go crazy enough
NO PANZER DRAGOON OF ANY KIND
how do you fuck up that bad? you make PDS and just do nothing on your next system?

DC has no standout genres on it. even saturn can be the shmup console

[Anonymous No.6543598]

>>6529705
is the DC even good for arcade stuff? people say yes but its library is so small i doubt anything good from arcades got there in a good state aside from fighters

[Anonymous No.6543603]

I almost bought a Dreamcast from Best Buy when they were $100, but the cashier convinced me to save my money and get a PS2 instead.

[Anonymous No.6543609]

>>6543493
>didnt let sonic team go crazy enough
Except there 3 Sonic games on it, plus Sonic Team made PSO and Samba de Amigo. They got plenty of mileage out of it in just 3 years.
>NO PANZER DRAGOON OF ANY KIND how do you fuck up that bad? you make PDS and just do nothing on your next system?
Team Andromeda was disbanded and Smilebit was busy working on JSR. Maybe if DC had lasted another it would've gotten a Panzer seqeul.
>>6543074
The $400 price was a minor issue considering you got a launch game with it. Not to mention the PS1 required the purchasing of a memory card. It was only a couple of years prior that 3DO launched at 700 dollars.
>Polygon
Unironically consider sucking a tailpipe.
>>6543603
There was a lot of shady of shit retailers were doing with PS2. EB Games gave a discount on launch PS2s for anyone who traded their Dreamcasts in for store credit.

[Anonymous No.6543613]

>>6543609
>There was a lot of shady of shit retailers were doing with PS2.

I don't think Best Buy told him to say anything. The cashier was a fellow gamer giving his opinion. I'm glad I took it. PS2 is my favorite console and has my favorite games.

[Anonymous No.6543618]

>>6529705
I always thought it looked really cool, but it didn't have much games so I went for the ps2

[Anonymous No.6543740]

Is there a list or something for must-play or at least decent DC games? It was my first console as a kid, but nobody sold any games for it and I was stuck with the demo disc and whatever trash I could find while going on day trips. Thanks to that I have a weird mixture of hate and nostalgia for it and I want to see what the thing actually has to offer.

[Anonymous No.6543818]

>>6543020
>what does this mean?
As one anon mentioned in another Sega thread earlier this month, the Genesis board layout is inefficient. The VDP (or integrated video/audio ASIC in Mod 2 boards) is connected neither to the expansion port, nor to the cartridge slot. This means it cannot directly use the extra memory in either the Sega CD or the expansion memory cartridge.
Given that, at the time, board construction was a not-insignificant percentage of BoM, I suspect somebody simply removed the traces between VDP and cartridge slot/expansion port during final cost-optimization pass over the board design, not realizing that it would permanently ruin the console's expansion potential.

>honestly if anything I feel if SEGA were to only have done one of their two 32-Bit projects, it should have been the 32x as their only one
Fuck, no. As anon here >>6543041 said, the 32x was a viciously retarded idea. The Genesis+ concept was originally propelled in no small part by the resentfulness of the SoJ sales department, who had often gotten openly berated by Nakayama for ending up 3rd, behind the PC-Engine (as opposed to the solid sales in the US). SoA initially wanted to shitcan it completely, but SoJ had greenlit initial development without informing them. In the end, SoJ and SoA decided to compromise on yet another add-on (despite the Sega CD not having performed too well, in part because of Genesis's aforementioned design flaws). Though I find it absolutely baffling that both SoJ and SoA got worried by the Jaguar.

[Anonymous No.6543850]

>>6530626
the saturn gained a moderate "system for coomers" fame, not as deep as home computers, but it was there. so much so that the japanese still think of the pc 98 and the saturn as "those coomer systems". the lesson is that coomers ruin everything. your bullshit about pr and chips doesn't make sense, especially when people want to play games and avoid your hentai shit, anon.

[Anonymous No.6543863]

>>6543603
>I almost bought a Dreamcast from Best Buy when they were $100, but the cashier convinced me to save my money and get a PS2 instead.
>>6543609
>There was a lot of shady of shit retailers were doing with PS2. EB Games gave a discount on launch PS2s for anyone who traded their Dreamcasts in for store credit.

Fucking this. There are loads of stories about how retailers would strongly prefer and push certain consoles to others, probably getting massive kickbacks in the process while pretending to offer friendly unbiased advice to the customers (who had no internet and were often moms at the time).

The PS2 was everywhere, you couldn't open a newspaper without some article talking about it. Sony must have simply paid for the propaganda. There was this kids show on tv where they played cartoons and stuff and I saw them talking about how the PS2 was really a full top of the range PC but in a small casing and costing a fraction of the price (it still cost over twice the price of the dreamcast). There was talk about how Saddam Hussein was stockpiling them to build nuclear weapons because they were the most powerful CPUs he could get his hands on. It was nuts.

So people bought into the hype and waited for it even though it cost multiple times the cost of the dreamcast while only being incrementally more powerful. Dreamcast had full, clean 3d at a high framerate - the hall marks of 6th gen, and could easily handle pretty much any game put on the other sixth gen consoles - even if of course it would have to be scaled down a bit in some cases.

When you think about it, Sony's over the top insane marketing may have been a special hit job on Sega's console line. They knew that if they could destroy the dreamcast out of sight then it would get rid of Sega forever. Who knows what sort of bottomless pit of marketing they threw at it.

The technical aspects of the dreamcast were a major success. It's the marketing and 3rd party games that weren't good enough.

[Anonymous No.6543872]

>>6543618
Nice and what u you got for launch on Ps2? A Racer aka ridge racer 5 and beat em up tekken tag. Almost the same as virtua fighter and Sega rally.

[Anonymous No.6543896]

>>6542435
GEMS had a huge advantage over the older way of composing, in that you didn't need to know the intricacies of programming. Previously, you had to literally write a soundtrack in code, line by line (including manually adding the instruments and their settings).
GEMS allowed a composer to use something like your bog-standard Korg keyboard and the visual user interface to convert raw input into code. The biggest issue with GEMS was that, either due to licensing issues, or just plain "whoopsie-daisy", its instrument library wasn't MIDI-standard compliant. Ex. hypothetically, A39 is the hi-hat in the MIDI standard library (have no idea whether it's true, only using it as example), while A39 in the GEMS library is a sizzle cymbal. End result is, when that particular piece is played through a consumer Genesis's YM2612 (or later integrated ASIC) it will sound completely different than what the composer heard (and usually worse).

[Anonymous No.6544023]

>>6541171
I guess it depends where, but that's true. I can remember people buying the PS1 because it was easy to find pirated games for it.
>>6541172
Not at release, but in 2-3 years they were. Still rather expensive but you either always had a friend that had one >>6542303, or convenient enough for someone who wanted to get into the business of selling pirated games.
>>6543740
Just on top of my head: obviously Shenmue, Soul Calibur, Grandia II, Skies of Arcadia, Dead or Alive 2, PowerStone 2, Gundam 0079, Berserk, Tech Romancer, Jet Set Radio, Rez, Crazy Taxi, Guily Gear X. Mind you, many are available on other platforms.

[Anonymous No.6544080]

>>6529705
Why? SOA

[Anonymous No.6544137]

>>6543896
>in that you didn't need to know the intricacies of programming.
Yea, it showed. Real programmers made much better music.

[Anonymous No.6544185]

>>6544137
Tell me you're joking?

[Anonymous No.6544253]

>>6544185
I guess you're not that familiar with Chip Tune.

[Anonymous No.6544372]

>>6544137
That wasn't my point. Thing is, there are several otherwise good composers who can't code to save their lives from a Somali pirate. GEMS helped them create music. It might have even been good music, had the instrument library not been whack.

[Anonymous No.6544402]

>>6543872
I bought it in 2004 so...

[Anonymous No.6544485]

>Never the console
>Never drew a dime
>Never had a good game period
>Never put anyone over
>Public/dev trust and buyrate already tanked by the Saturn shitshow
>Jannettied by PlayStation 2 almost immediately
>Buried 3dfx during development for no reason
>Needed propietary disc format to beat PS1/N64's storage capacity
>The system's Internet gimmick was cringe
>The system's Windows CE gimmick was cringe and was even targeted by Microsoft haters during the peak of Microsoft antitrust case
>The system's advertisements in Japan (directed by Yasushi Akimoto, the AKB48 guy) was cringe
>The system's Limp Bizkit tie-in in the US was cringe
>The memory card's Tamagotchi gimmick was cringe
>SoJ/SoA keeps politicking each other for no reason during the system's development and life
>An entire accessory got censored in the US for no reason
>The console's logo got censored in Europe because of muh trademark
>Drew so poorly in entirety of console's life that Sega had to leave the console business and sell themselves to pachinko money marks
>Spent the entirety of the system's lifetime buried by superior systems
>The biggest impact it had on the business was exposing the fall of Sega the company never recovered from until the Yakuza series happened.

[Anonymous No.6544503]

>>6544485
>>The console's logo got censored in Europe because of muh trademark
Oh no, they changed the logo from red to blue, that's definitely why the Dreamcast flopped!

[Anonymous No.6544574]

>>6544485
Us was ridiculous with gun stuff back then.
Also the 3dfx thing seems like a bonehead move. I mean yeah why the fuck are american conpanies incapable of keeping a secret? All these leaks even to modern day come from the american pipeline for some fucking dipshit reason. But torpedoing your console you really need to succeed over was a ridiculous emotional move.
Honestly sega seems to genuinely hate the West yet thats where a lot of their home console popularity was.

[Anonymous No.6544650]

>>6544485
oh boy another dumbass
>Buried 3dfx during development for no reason
3DFX broke NDAs when they were supposed to be under wraps. Also turned out to be a silver lining as Power VR provided better visuals in the end.
>Public/dev trust and buyrate already tanked by the Saturn shitshow
Again wrong see >>6530626
>An entire accessory got censored in the US for no reason
Because Columbine. Capom did the same thing with RE: Survivor. 3rd parties managed to get light guns out instead.
>cringe cringe cringe cringe cringe
Dilate and opinion discarded.
>>6544574
Again, 3DFX broke their NDA, and this wasn't back when "leaks" were a part of hyping new games and hardware. If something "leaked" it was genuinely something you didn't want out in the public.
>But torpedoing your console you really need to succeed over was a ridiculous emotional move. Honestly sega seems to genuinely hate the West yet thats where a lot of their home console popularity was.
More like they had already been in talks with NEC over using Power VR. Once 3DFX decided to be retarded, Sega ultimately realized it was just easier to work with NEC.

[Anonymous No.6544667]

does the DC even have games? doesnt it have a smaller library with the saturn? how does that even happen?
is a DC even worth owning

[Anonymous No.6544670]

>>6544667
Look up the game library yourself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dreamcast_games

[Anonymous No.6544692]

>>6544670
i dont really play fighters because i have no friends. seems like sega has nothing to offer me on their consoles?
im not sure how easy the region locking on dreamcast or saturn is to beat either

[Anonymous No.6544750]

>>6543818
honestly I'm not picturing a "32x as Sega's only 32 bit project" to actually have any meaningful success, just that it does just well enough to keep Sega in the market while they develop Project Neptune/Dreamcast into something that can properly compete with Nintendo and Sony

[Anonymous No.6544942]

>>6544750
>just that it does just well enough to keep Sega in the market
Except it didn't. It should've been cancelled for the same reason that Star Fox 2 was cancelled by Nintendo; it was trying force 8 year old 16 bit hardware to compete with new 32 bit hardware that successfully captured everyone's attention with 3D and it looked like shit.

[Anonymous No.6544954]

>>6544692
Also look into shmups library. The few exclusives there have extras that are not in any other version like Morrigan in Gunbird 2, the limiter shop in Mars Matrix, Arrange mode in Exellica.
The homebrew shmups range from complete trash like Last Hope to actually this isn't bad at all like Ghost Blade.

[Anonymous No.6544978]

>>6544942
exactly, just setting people up to be underwhelmed
"is this all sega can do with 32bit?"
32bit to the public just meant "next-gen", you don't want to attach that name to anything that isn't your best bet

[Anonymous No.6545304]

>>6544954
what about Last Hope: Pink Bullets

[Anonymous No.6545307]

>>6545304
It's literally just R-Type 2
Even the level designs are the same but worse.

[Anonymous No.6545310]

>>6529903
That's sound like Nintendo Switch to me

[Anonymous No.6547354]

>>6529705
The Jews killed Sega.

[Anonymous No.6547416]

Does the light gun work with American Dreamcasts? I know it was only released in Yurop and Japan.

[Anonymous No.6547419]

Not retro newfag

[Anonymous No.6547424]

>>6547419
>NoT rEtRo NeWfAg
Dreamcast was released in 1998 initially.

[Anonymous No.6547428]

>>6547424
>>6547419

[Anonymous No.6547429]

>>6547419
>>6547428
READ! >>1392415

[Anonymous No.6547431]

>>6547424
But it is part of 6th gen, which according to the rules is not allowed on this board:

https://4chan.org/rules#vr

[Anonymous No.6547437]

>>6547429
>>6547419

[Anonymous No.6547440]

>>6547437
Ok crackbaby

[Anonymous No.6547442]

>>6547440
>>6547431

[Anonymous No.6547454]

>>6547431
retard >>1392415

[Anonymous No.6547461]

Just a hint, trying to misrepresent the rules when they are clearly spelled out in the sticky qualifies as "trolling outside of /b/". Instead of giving these idiots a bunch of (You)s report them.

[Anonymous No.6547470]

>directly cite the rules
>this is considered trolling
Huh

[Anonymous No.6547479]

>>6547470
>With the release of the 8th generation of consoles, the Sega Dreamcast will now be considered "retro", though the remainder of the sixth generation (Xbox, PS2, GameCube) will not
That's the final word. You can try to pull any kind of flawed interpretation of the rules you want out of your ass but ultimately it doesn't matter. If you want to get banned go ahead and try to say DC isn't retro. Nobody is going to miss you. This board is better off without you.

[Anonymous No.6547484]

>>6547479
>final word on a hypocritical idiotic rule that has exceptions
Are you a trannyjanny or something

[Anonymous No.6547485]

>don't bother following the rules when it comes to racism, trolling, off-topic, etc
>but bother following the non-retro rule

[Anonymous No.6547486]

>>6547484
You're too pussy to say it. Go on anon, do it.

[Anonymous No.6547490]

>>6547486
Say what?

[Anonymous No.6547497]

>>6547490
>conveniently pretends to forget the topic of conversation and drifts off into a dumb tangent about trannies
How many bans have you evaded just this week? Next you're going to start up about Master System or PSX. But you're just pretending to be retarded right?

[Anonymous No.6547498]

>>6547497
Trannyjanny is just insulting the faggot jannies
Explain how one console is retro but other consoles from the same generation despite being 20 years old isn't

[Anonymous No.6547509]

>>6547498
I don't care. I just want you 6th Gen zoomers to fuck off. Post 6th Gen and get banned already so we don't have to listen to you whine about the rules anymore. Your posts are all hot steaming piles of shit. Find some reddit forum to make posts about tranny cock on if you're so obsessed with it you pimple faced knob polisher. If you can't remember 9/11 this board isn't for you. Kick and scream and throw little zoomie tantrums about your ps2 all you want. Waahhhh I'm old like you guys! Let me in your club you big mean trannys! Let me talk about that time my big brother let me play San Andreas for five minutes. It's not retro! Haha we can talk chu chu rocket and sonic adventure all we want but one post about your zoomer shit and you're gone. Zoomers not welcome. Eat shit.

[Anonymous No.6547510]

>>6547509
>oomerposting
Post discarded

[Anonymous No.6547516]

>>6547510
Discarded? Actually my post is going to stay up unlike any of your 6th Gen garbage. Dreamcast is retro though. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.6547519]

>>6547516
>oomerposting
Should be a permaban honestly
Besides you've yet to explain how one console is retro but other consoles from the same generation aren't

[Anonymous No.6547524]

>>6547519
Rules here say it's retro. On this board it's retro? Got a problem with it? Go make a reddit where you can play janny and enforce your own rules. Otherwise stay here and continue to get bullied.

[Anonymous No.6547530]

>>6547524
Rules also state no off topic and no racism, but I guarantee you don't care about those rules being broken

[Anonymous No.6547535]

STOP BULLYING ME YOU GUYS!!! You just love the jannies, the jannie tranny, haha that rhymes. I'm nostalgic too. Won't you please let me in your club house please? I'm such an old fag I played all those classics. I played Sonic Adventure and Crazy Taxi on my PS2. Please let me play with you please please? I don't have any friends.

[Anonymous No.6547539]

>>6547535
Schizophrenia in action
Although a /vr/ plays together thing isn't a bad idea

[Anonymous No.6547548]

SHUT UP YOU SCHIZO!!! I'm 19 now that means I'm a real man and I have real nostalgia for my 20 year old console. The PS2 is almost old enough to buy a beer. That means it's retro. Please mods won't you please change the rules so I can make 10 Ratchet and Clank threads? I have nobody to talk about my childhood with and I feel so nostalgic now that I'm getting older. I'm sick of seeing pictures of the SNES and Genesis. I've never even seen one of those consoles. Please please please change the rules already it's time!

[Anonymous No.6547550]

Is he ok?

[Anonymous No.6547557]

>>6547535
>>6547548
Holy kek.
Fuckin zoomers.

[Anonymous No.6547574]

>>6547557
>>6547535
>>6547548
Samefag

[Anonymous No.6547578]

>>6547574
Nah those were posted from different IP addresses. Newfag.

[Anonymous No.6547579]

>>6547578
>he thinks its hard to post with a new IP
It's the same person you tourist

[Anonymous No.6547582]

>>6547579
That's true but I don't get banned for being a dumb zoomer posting about 6th gen consoles so I don't really have any reason to hop around different IP addresses.

[Anonymous No.6547593]

>>6547431
Dreamcast is 5th gen, the Sega Shiturn died halfway through that gen and Dreamcast had to pick up its slack for the remainder.

[Anonymous No.6547594]

>>6547593
>he got filtered by the Satkino

[Anonymous No.6547618]

>>6547519
>It hurts my feelings so it should be banned

[Anonymous No.6547623]

>>6547618
>doesn't know where that iconic character is from
Go back normalfag

[Anonymous No.6547643]

>>6547618
Wojak posting goes against global rule number 6.

[Anonymous No.6547645]

>>6547643
Then report it and shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.6547676]

>>6529705
Can i use the dreamcast as a pc
Can it use 4chan or twitch?
Can i play my pc games on it using scummvm

[Anonymous No.6547692]

>>6547548
i'd laugh, but i'm a 30yo millenial and the ps2 was my childhood as well (well, teenage years anyway)
not complaining about the rules or anything, but i do look forward to ps2 being allowed

[Anonymous No.6547697]

>>6547692
>but i do look forward to ps2 being allowed
I want to talk about the PS2 as well, but not here because I also want to talk about older vidya.

[Anonymous No.6547698]

>>6547676
>Can i use the dreamcast as a pc
i know there's a port of NetBSD for it
>Can it use 4chan or twitch?
i don't know of any homebrew for that, and you won't be able to use any modern browsers on it (it only has 16M ram)
technically should be possible (well, i don't know if any twitch streams are low enough quality to be able to decode on a dreamcast, but you could setup a server to transcode the video for you), you'd have to write such a program yourself
>Can i play my pc games on it using scummvm
yes
https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6547707]

>>6547697
Yeah I'm 31 and I have a lot of fond memories of that time period. I'd rather not see the people that were 4 or 5 years old when I was 13-14 clog up the board with their 00s 3D baby games though. People are worried about Halo and GTA taking up the whole board. I'm worried about shit like Ratchet & Clank or Jak & Dexter. The kind of cancerous autists that would attract would be enough to drive me out of here. It's bad enough having an Australian My Little Pony loving furfag shitting up the board all day. I hate these retarded children with an undying passion.

[Anonymous No.6547720]

>>6547697
i wonder if it would be better to split 5th and 6th gen into it's own board

[Anonymous No.6547723]

>>6547707
Even as a kid back then i never got the appeal of ratchet or jak.

[Anonymous No.6547727]

>>6547698
Just add moreram to the dreamcastthen

[Anonymous No.6547729]

Dreamcast is allowed then PS2 is, however if PS2 isn't neither is Dreamcast
Simple as

[Anonymous No.6547731]

>>6547729
The rules state otherwise zoom zoom.

[Anonymous No.6547734]

>>6547707
I can't imagine giving a shit, it's just a bulletin board.

[Anonymous No.6547737]

>>6547727
i don't know of any mods for that, and i doubt even then that you could get it high enough to run a modern browser
i'd say you'd need about 256M at a bare minimum to use off-the-shelf software
you could reduce that a bit by use a swapfile over a network, but of course the less real ram you have, the slower it will be (technically you could just have the 16M and then a huge swapfile, but even posting on 4chan like that will probably not work, because shit will be so slow that you'll probably just keep timing out)

[Anonymous No.6547741]

>>6547727
>>6547737
-- oh, and the swapfile is assuming the dreamcast has an MMU (i didn't check), without an MMU virtual memory won't be possible

[Anonymous No.6547743]

>>6547720
Yeah that would be the best move to make.
5th gen has more in common with the 6th than with the 4th and PSX games were still officially released in the early 2000s. Plus, no more empty debates about the DC being retro or not.
That would bring back /vr/ to its former cruising speed and allow threads about niche subjects to stay alive.

[Anonymous No.6547747]

>>6547743
>er... i'll take the next one
>:(

[Anonymous No.6547756]

>>6547743
they also lasted long enough, and have enough games to be worthwhile as a whole board
going from ~1993 to ~2008, that's no smaller than gen3+4 (and gen1/2 is not really big enough to worry about)
it also stops the constant complaining about 5th and 6th gen
of course, people will complain about no 7th gen soon enough, but i consider those modern still, they can stay on /v/ for the foreseeable future

[Anonymous No.6547763]

>>6547737
>>6547741
Can't i use the dreamcast browser
Is it really that hard to add ram?

[Anonymous No.6547772]

>>6547763
Maybe with a proxy for https->http so you can actually load modern websites.

[Anonymous No.6547775]

>>6547763
>Can't i use the dreamcast browser
idk what that supports, but it's not even close to a modern browser, does it even support javascript at all?
you may be able to create your own web portal, reformatting the pages to suit the dreamcast browser, you certainly won't be able to browse 4chan/twitch out of the box
>Is it really that hard to add ram?
found a post about upgrading it to 32M ram
https://www.retrorgb.com/dreamcast-32mb-ram-upgrade.html
still not even close to what you'd need to run a modern browser under netbsd

[Anonymous No.6547781]

>>6547485
>following the rules when it comes to racism

[Anonymous No.6547783]

>>6547756
>they also lasted long enough, and have enough games to be worthwhile as a whole board
The PS1 and PS2 alone could carry an entire board. A split between 2D retro and 3D retro does seem like the best course of action. When 7th gen starts getting older and dumbfuck zoomers start whining about how shit like Gears of War and Uncharted are totally retro and need to be discussed on the 3D board then the 6th gen advocates will finally know how we felt back then.

[Anonymous No.6547784]

>>6547775
Man i hate the modern tech. When did it become acceptable to have such bloated sites and browsers

[Anonymous No.6547789]

>>6547784
even in 1999 16M for web browsing was very bare bones

[Anonymous No.6547794]

>>6547756
Agreed.
I filed a request for a new board dedicated to 5th and 6th gen a week ago. Every anon who is both into retro vidya and 5-6th gen should do the same.
https://www.4chan.org/feedback

[Anonymous No.6547808]

>>6547781
calling someone a nigger isn't racism

[Anonymous No.6547896]

>>6547731
>>6547729

[Anonymous No.6547916]

>>6529737
Best controller ever made, you mean? Worst is N64, or one of those old old phone controllers from 2nd gen.

[Anonymous No.6547925]

>>6547916
Hard to be the best controller ever made when it's a literal downgrade of an existing controller they already made.

[Anonymous No.6547931]

>>6547548
>implying people want to talk about post-2001 PS2 here
You seem to have a warped perspective about PS2 fans here.
Fuck everything starting with Kingdom Hearts, I just want a place not called Reddit where I can talk about SSX, Dark Cloud, Midnight Club 1, Gran Turismo 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, The Bouncer, Final Fantasy 10 and Twisted Metal Black. On /v/ and /vg/ those threads would go straight to page 10 with no replies unless I bitch about trannies or post porn.

[Anonymous No.6547940]

>>6547931
Then you and everyone else who wants to talk about 6th gen should migrate to 8kun. The exodus they had recently on their /v/ means there is no way in hell your threads are going to 404 any time soon.

[Anonymous No.6547950]

>>6547940
bitch please, they're 10x as slow as even this board

[Anonymous No.6547954]

>>6547916
>Worst is N64
>the only tendy controller not made for babby hands is bad
The fuck are you smoking?

[Anonymous No.6547972]

>>6547940
>muh cripple-kun
Holy shit just shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.6547997]

>>6547950
If you faggots migrate then that won't be a problem then will it?
>>6547972
Fantastic counter argument, you're a credit to whiny obnoxious zoomer babies everywhere. You have the perfect place to discuss 6th gen on 8kun so fuck off. Starting up all these threads begging for 6th gen every goddamn day and hijacking existing threads has done nothing but massively increase resentment and resistance towards the goal you want to achieve. You've exposed yourselves as a bunch of insufferable fuckwits and allowing 6th gen discussion will only invite more insufferable fuckwits.

[Anonymous No.6548002]

>>6530538
>his burning hatred for anything 2D animu killed the Saturn
I agree that more of those games should've been localized to at least try to find an audience, but even if they had localized everything I doubt it would have made much difference. The Saturn doesn't have a particularly good library. Even the Dreamcast's library is a little barren if you ignore the arcade ports.

[Anonymous No.6548041]

>>6548002
the dreamcast didn't last long enough, so it's hard to compare
it was on the market from practically 1999 to near the start of 2001, little more than 2 years... 2 years! that's like if the playstation was discontinued in 1997! before many of the best games came out for that system!
it could have been a lot better if they just kept it alive long enough

[Anonymous No.6548046]

You're right, OP. I make all my videogame purchasing decisions based on the quality of a console's anti aliasing.

[Anonymous No.6548076]

>>6529729
>The thing could have sucked your dick and it would've failed
It came pretty close ;)

[Anonymous No.6548093]

>>6547416
Non of the American games let you use it. Retarded I know

[Anonymous No.6548680]

>>6534779
What am I looking at here?

[Anonymous No.6548686]

>>6529729
Nonsense.

[Anonymous No.6548692]

>>6548680
https://segaretro.org/Dreamcast_DVD_Player

[Anonymous No.6548693]

>>6548686
Nice argument.

[Anonymous No.6549374]

>>6547954
Why the fuck would you make a controller with three handles and a stick in the center? It looks like alien technology.

[Anonymous No.6549393]

>>6549374
>>6549374
its actually pretty logical to be honest. its an obvious extension of the SNES controller in a world where you aren't 100% sure if analog control and 3d gaming will be more than a gimmick but you are also the ONLY major console manufacturer shipping a controller with analog by default
the n64 controller itself is perfectly comfortable to use . i feel like youtubers and zoomers(maybe?) keep meming shit like
>HOW DO I HOLD THIS?!??! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!?!?
but i cant think of an n64 game where the controller itself is the problem. controls can be a problem same as any other bad 5th gen game. nintendo provided a lot of options for developers in that controller design its pretty interesting. i think thats one of the reasons why 3D n64 games are easier to go back to than stuff on the psx. the psx 3d controls are rough

[Anonymous No.6549402]

>>6549393
Quality response. Though, I still love the DC controller. Not sure why it gets hate. The missing 2nd stick is my only issue. Otherwise, I love it.

[Anonymous No.6549441]

>>6549402
>analog stick with dots on it that get worn off
>roug

[Anonymous No.6549447]

>>6549402
the dc controller is nice. i prefer it to the playstation style controller.

[Anonymous No.6549452]

>>6549402
>analog stick with dots on it that get worn off, causing it to be slippery
>rough edged and stiff D-pad, when sega already had a perfect d-pad on the 6-button genesis and saturn controllers
>2 less buttons than their previous design, the NiGHTS pad

Its shit m8.

[Anonymous No.6549460]

>>6529705
They didn't have enough 3rd party support and weren't nearly as good at making games as Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.6549463]

why does bernie stolar look so nasty in every image?
>takes pride in the fact he fired over 300 people as soon as he got hired
>adamant hatred of japanese games while working on a Japanese culture
>fired before the dreamcast even launched in america
>'proud' of what 'he did' with the dreamcast
>less trustworthy appearance than a used car salesmen

[Anonymous No.6549468]

>>6549460
i disagree. sega games are fantastic and have heart and soul. nintendo is like supporting north korea

[Anonymous No.6549504]

Why are Dreamcast fans so delusional as to use its tile rasterization speed as the figure for opaque fillrate?

[Anonymous No.6549506]

I liked that most Dreamcast games ran at 60fps.

[Anonymous No.6549509]

>>6549463
Take a (((guess)))

[Anonymous No.6549510]

The controller looks wack.

[Anonymous No.6549521]

>>6549504
in english doc

[Anonymous No.6549524]

>>6549463

[Anonymous No.6549529]

>>6549460
Nintendo was fucking trash at making arcade-style games, hence why they turned into a consolecuck company after the mid '80s.

[Anonymous No.6549594]

Shit controller.
Wacky games with little mainstream appeal.
The other stuff was mostly PS1 ports.
Saturn owners felt burned.
PS1 owners were good and just waited.
N64 was just hitting its (small) stride.

It's a mystery.

[Anonymous No.6549604]

Sega should've just coasted on the genesis + addons until the Dreamcast was ready and said fuck making the Shiturn.

[Anonymous No.6549607]

>>6549594
The Dreamcast was better than the N64, it had the double amount of games.

[Anonymous No.6549616]

>>6549607
>it had the double amount of games
Doesn't matter if no one wanted to play them or were already on other platforms.

[Anonymous No.6549619]

>>6549452
>LCD screen memory card
>goldilocks size
>based handles that allow the controller to slide right into your hands, so that it's impossible to drop
>comfy button positioning
>cool color scheme/aesthetic

[Anonymous No.6549629]

>>6549616
The Dreamcast version of those games where usually the best versions, most of the time.

[Anonymous No.6549646]

>>6549629
And came out late and were not worth getting a system for.

[Anonymous No.6549672]

>>6549402
Second analog stick was the death of console gaming. Shortly after that consoles just became PCs with all of the shortcomings and none of the benefits.

[Anonymous No.6549713]

>>6549672
>Second analog stick was the death of console gaming.
>I only play FPS games.
Retard.

[Anonymous No.6549714]

>>6549672
Sony and Microsoft replacing Sega and Nintendo is what killed consoles.

[Anonymous No.6549968]

>>6548093
Damn. Are any of the third-party ones functional?

[Anonymous No.6549971]

>>6549629
Are you thinking of PC?

[Anonymous No.6550186]

>>6529705
Read a fucking history book you stupid millennial. Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.6550194]

>>6547916
I like the controller bro. Playing mvc2 was bliss with it.

[Anonymous No.6550343]

>>6550194
Based and redpilled.

[Anonymous No.6550478]

>>6549971
Many of them were ported on PC from the lower-detail PS1 version.

[Anonymous No.6550626]

>over a year head start on next gen
This is precisely it. Sega just released the thing too damn early. Online features weren't in too high demand when it came to late 5th gen but by the time the actual kick off of 6th gen rolled around it would have had such a leg up having a built in modem and free online. That would have hit PS2 and Xbox in weak spots they had. Also if they had taken the time to implement a DVD drive it would have done better. The Saturn was already capable of playing Video CDs so if they had followed through on that train of thought with DVDs the Dreamcast might have been seen as the ultimate multimedia device. It would have had music CDs, DVDs, video games and internet capabilities with the web browser discs plus online gaming. With that extra little push from just one feature and a little more time cooking, it could have kept Sega in the hardware race.

[Anonymous No.6550972]

>>6534782
GTA3 supposedly.

[Anonymous No.6550983]

>>6534782
well that's hard to verify
if a developer is targeting gamecube as well, they're going to make sure the game is small enough to fit on a mini-dvd
i'd like to see what they'd have to do to fit something like san andreas on the gamecube

[Anonymous No.6550995]

>>6547416
It doesn't work with most American games but there's also almost no reason to play the American versions of light gun games.
Get the PAL version of HOTD2 and the JP version of Confidential Mission. Virtua Cop 2 supports it even in the US.
I don't know what's different between the US and JP versions of Death Crimson OX but by most accounts that's not even worth playing.

[Anonymous No.6553897]

>>6550983
San Andreas would have fit on a mini dvd easy

[Anonymous No.6553903]

>>6553897
then how come there was no san andreas stories on psp?

[Anonymous No.6554298]

>>6529705
Floundered in Japan out of the gate due to lack of Saturn backward compatibility and supply chain issues

Lower attach rate than Saturn (in Japan)

Met sales targets in the US, but not anywhere else

New CEO wanted out of the hardware business because Sega lost money 3 years in a row and profit was everything to Sega (that's why they severely limited the supply of Saturns at the peak of demand early on)

What Sega should have done in the first place:

-never hired Bernie Stolar

-never tried to merge with Bandai (that forced Nakayama out)

-Waited until 2000 and released it with beefier specs (32 MB RAM, 16 MB VRAM, SH-4 350 MHz, PowerVR3 175 MHz)

What Sega could have done instead of killing the Dreamcast they did release:

-Turn it into a handheld. It has the same basic controls as PSP, perfect for a handheld.
--Handheld DC would have a detachable GD-ROM drive the size of a walkman and a mount to hold it on the back of the unit with space for your fingers between handheld and drive, allowing it to play all your DC games but still be truly portable.

Had Sega used 8 cm DVDs like Nintendo did for Gamecube, this option would have been even more viable.

[Anonymous No.6554305]

>>6529705
when was the last time systems like this got a commercial boost

[Anonymous No.6554306]

>>6553903
Because it wasn't worth making the GTA Stories games. They wasted their time and effort when they could have made more console games.

[Anonymous No.6554321]

>>6550626
>>over a year head start on next gen
>Also if they had taken the time to implement a DVD drive it would have done better.
Didn't help Xbox.
>The Saturn was already capable of playing Video CDs
Not without an extremely expensive add-on card.

Sega would have been better off with what they were doing, which was integrating the Dreamcast into a DVR (the PACE Box). Unfortunately they quit the hardware business before anything came of it, but I think they had a shot at success going that route. Imagine if every TIVO in America played Dreamcast games. They could have set a hardware standard like 3DO and Nuon tried to do, and Android did 15 years later. Dreamcast already had the large userbase 3DO/NUON never did, and the hardware became cheap enough by 2001 to integrate into a DVR without it being too expensive.

[Anonymous No.6556093]

>>6554298
>Waited until 2000
Only possible if they avoid hiring Stolar, avoid releasing the 32X (wasted resources, better used on more Saturn development), and somehow keep the Saturn alive until around 99 in the West.

>beefier specs (32 MB RAM, 16 MB VRAM, SH-4 350 MHz, PowerVR3 175 MHz)
The DC didn't need more VRAM. At 8 MB, it had the highest VRAM pool of all consoles (apart from the Xbox, which however used a unified memory arch, so not exactly a direct comparison). What it needed was faster VRAM, either by using some exotic variant, or by embedding it in the GPU (like the PS2 and GC).
And Nintendo didn't use actual miniDVDs; they used a disc that was very similar (though it held 1.5 GB instead of 1.4), but not identical, which allowed them to avoid paying royalties to the format owners (and make piracy more compicated due to the nonstandard format). Sega using outright miniDVDs would be the worst of both options: low capacity *and* having to pay royalties. Standard DVDs were the better option.

[Anonymous No.6557075]

GD-ROM was the best option, some PS2 games were in the CD-ROM format and many PS2 games on DVD format are not even 2GB in size.

Sega was selling the Dreamcast at loss, a DVD drive in 1998 would only make things worse.

[Anonymous No.6558719]

We all forget Dreamcast had the Microsoft CE Operating System. The Microsoft X-Box in a way carries the torch for what the Sega Consoles once competed as.

[Anonymous No.6558737]

>>6558719
>We all forget Dreamcast had the Microsoft CE Operating System.
as an option, it didn't actually run WinCE ootb, and only a handful of games used it (it was shipped on the disc of games that used it)
>The Microsoft X-Box in a way carries the torch for what the Sega Consoles once competed as.
this seems to be true, though, there is evidence to suggest the xbox is basically the dreamcast 2

[Anonymous No.6559042]

>>6530992
What is Shenmue, Ill bleed, Yakuza, and Sonic CD/Adventure?

[Anonymous No.6559395]

>>6559042
>Yakuza
>dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6560040]

>>6557075
its funny that they made GD ROM specifically to stop piracy but that didn't stop CD ROMs

[Anonymous No.6560058]

>>6560040
And they would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for that damn MIL-CD exploit.

[Anonymous No.6560763]

>>6529705
Why do people keep asking this question when the answers are well documented? Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.6562246]

>>6557075
This, dvd drives were like 500 bucks in 1998

[Anonymous No.6564317]

>>6562246
More like 700

[Anonymous No.6564347]

>>6529705
I read they made it too quickly so burning copyright infringed games was easier than it should have been. The first couple of years are 90 percent the profit an item like that will ever make. If it gets stolen fast then they go broke.

Really it's only stealing if it's stolen new with software like this.

[Anonymous No.6564351]

>>6547808
Not him but racism isn't even real.Race bait is, spam is, but not things like trolling nor racism. That's just warping things like a religious man would to call something evil.

[Anonymous No.6564357]

>>6564351
this implies that i give a shit whether someone says something racist or not, i don't, i consider it free speech like everything else
it should be ignored (if you disagree with it), not punished. everyone is entitled to an opinion, trying to restrict what kind of opinions people can express can only lead to worse things than racism

[Anonymous No.6564368]

>>6547808
Tell that to 90% of the people that get fired or kicked out of college for being caught saying it on video

[Anonymous No.6564371]

>>6547519
>zoomers as an insult should be banned
No, what zoomers did turning it into the [x]oomer meme is what's bad as newfaggots are bad and have always been bad.

Not him though. Shit like gba should blatantly be allowed at this point. hiro has the cash to make more than one board for it. He should just make a board for each gen. Why not? Having just two is retarded.

At least three are needed.

>70s through late 80s
>90s tier to 2002ish
>2005+ tier onward

That's how I'd do it if having too many boards is somehow going to make him not rich anymore, of which I doubt. Just cannibalize one of the shit board and the two can become the three. We have very shit places. Merge /b/, /r9k/, /bant/, and there's plenty of boards left, vacant spaces for the third section.

No?

Mixing dos tier with year 2000ish is what causes such dissonance here. To broad. Dreamcast being even allowed on top of this when the year is not the gen? It needed to be three. Proto tier, gba/snes tier, 3d tier.

[Anonymous No.6564373]

>>6564357
All freedom of speech guarantees is you can't be thrown in jail for saying what you want and that even doesnt exempt you from doing things like yelling fire in a movie theatre. Its also legal for your job to fire you or your school to kick you out for being a racist pos

[Anonymous No.6564374]

>>6564357
Freedom of speech is a giant meme created by pretentiously patriotic normalfaggots so they could feel superior to other times and or places that had supposedly lesser society's. It's not real. It cannot be. Humans would have to like one another to the point of culture shock not being a thing anymore, and that'd mean a single nation having killed the others while having no prison population of it's own.

It's not real.

[Anonymous No.6564385]

>>6564373
>>Its also legal for your job to fire you or your school to kick you out for being a racist pos
Actktually it's illegal to descriminate when hiring people over their personal beliefs. That's a two way street that normalfags pretend only goes in one direction. The sjw types love to demand tolerance while being intolerant to those with different opinions. It's ironic as hell.

Anyway, they fire over bad attitudes, as in behavior, demeanor, not your personal beliefs. That's illegal in places like the USA anyway. They bend the law when they fire for no real reason. The USA is falling apart though after all, why care about what smart laws were meant to do when they were obliterated by people that wanted to pretend to be nice while fearfully voting to ban freedom to trade it for safety? What a laugh it all is.

But yeah, not obeying faux outward behavior, not it's ethics deeply betrayed inside you, is the firing issue, not what you've believed. You could calmly bring it up and not be rude while factually talking about how x gene is different than another gene. They can't control casual conversations. Corporate policy tries to though.

They ban outward appearance, not personality nor persons. Dress code matters, uniform, but not who you really are. They don't ban you for being a racist 'piece of shit' they ban you for not fitting int, of which ironically is discrimination, and they ban the lack of such faux smile behavior in general and not just on racism. Identity politics is more spicy than that. You don't have the right to your identity no matter what a sjw would think we're headed towards.

[Anonymous No.6564390]

>>6562246
Sony made all the right choices at the right time with the PS2. I remember my friends comparing the two systems at a store kiosk and the thing that really sealed the deal was the backwards compatibility. We all owned a bunch of ps1 games already and knew of a bunch more we still wanted to play in the future. The DVD playback was a nice bonus.

some of us eventually got a dreamcast when they went on sale and it was a great system to have for college. Compact, 4 controller ports, lots of fighting and multiplayer games, wouldn't be too upset if it broke or got stolen

[Anonymous No.6564393]

>>6564371
I'd prefer to have boards split into PC- and console-specific. One board for DOS and pre-2005(-ish) PC games, one board for older consoles up to and including the PS1/N64/Saturn, one board for gen 6/7 consoles, one board for recent PC games, and one board for gen 8/9(soon) console titles.

[Anonymous No.6564975]

>>6564347
No, piracy meme already got debunked.

[Anonymous No.6565040]

>>6564347
even if burning games was easy from the very beginning, i doubt that would hurt it that much
look at the PSP, they fucked up real bad with that one, the original firmware didn't have code signing, and the system has an off-the-shelf flash memory card, it was absolutely trivial to pirate games on it, and even with all the updates it never got out of that status
but it was a commercial success anyway, the difference in people willing to do difficult or convenient piracy doesn't seem all that significant

[Anonymous No.6565050]

>>6565040
>>6564347
piracy literally drives console sales. i cant believe you think so little of people that you think the average person cant pirate

[Anonymous No.6565064]

>>6549713
t. consolecuck

[Anonymous No.6565065]

>>6529705
SEGA repeated the same mistake over and over again
>Launch console ahead of Nintendo and Sony
>Look everyone this is the best hardware out there
>6 months later, Sony and Nintendo's consoles come out, way, WAY, WAAAAAAAAAY ahead of the gimmicky shit SEGA did
>SEGA ded
Still a great console for fighters if you had any controller other than the original

[Anonymous No.6566553]

>>6530965
t. Boomer

[Anonymous No.6566575]

>>6529705
Pretty sure there was a civil war within Sega, where half of it wanted to keep pushing consoles and the other half wanted to go third party. Then the president died of old age and the third party fags won by default.

[Anonymous No.6566576]

>>6536556
I know right 1 stick was the future!!!

[Anonymous No.6566606]

>>6544485
Go back to /asp/

[Anonymous No.6566624]

>>6566576
You've got dual stick to thank for absolute garbage like Gears of War, Last of Us and the destruction of the FPS genre. Dual stick killed console gaming.

[Anonymous No.6568428]

>>6565050
People didn't like PSP Go and refused to buy PSP-3000s (before the hacks for them were found) for this reason.