/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6520267]

>Inferior 3D than the N64 and PC.
>Inferior 2D than the Saturn.
>Library is just shovelware.
>FMV
>slow loading times
Why do people like this console again?.

[Anonymous No.6520280]

Various factors.
Some people are just very impressionable by marketing and Sony is good at marketing.
And the big library, despite being full of shovelware, still has good games, maybe not more than the good games on the other systems, but they're there.
Also, for many people, this was their first console.

[Anonymous No.6520293]

>>6520267
It’s shit hardware but has good games. The best developers went for it because it had by far the largest market share. Not rocket science.

[Anonymous No.6520306]

>>6520267
Actually it had better 2D than the Saturn. The Saturn couldn’t even properly do transparencies in most games and suffered from slowdown in arcade ports. From a technical standpoint, you can think of the PS1 like an overclocked Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6520308]

>>6520267
>much cheaper than the PC, to get a Pentium pc back then you needed to spend like $1000
>easier to develop games for than the saturn and n64
>much cheaper games than the c64
>who cares about shovelware when all games can easily be pirated
>some games like gran turismo are fmv free and full of content, theh benefitted from the large capacity of CD

[Anonymous No.6520312]

>>6520293
>shit hardware
PS1 had the most efficient hardware of the 3. Who needs Z buffering when you can do geometry transformation easily.

[Anonymous No.6520317]

The amount of good games available was just incomparable. There was truly something for everyone. From what I can remember it was just fucking awesome. N64 was great too tho, the ps1 just had more games.

[Anonymous No.6520331]

All three consoles have soul and memorably great games. My personal favorite of the three is probably the N64, but that means nothing regarding this. Will the zoomer console war shitposting here ever end?

[Anonymous No.6520341]

Cool thread nintendildo.

[Anonymous No.6520345]

>>6520312
No z-buffer = visual glitches. Also less efficient wherever it's possible to do front -> back sorting. PS1 overdraws like a bitch.

[Anonymous No.6520349]

>>6520341
Kys australia-kun

[Anonymous No.6520350]

>>6520341
>australia-kun
>responsible for bernieposting and anti-nintendo shitposting
>actually defending the PS1
oh no... oh no no no no no. australia-kun confirmed for sonygger, after all? That'd be devastating for the Sony fans' reputation on this board.

[Anonymous No.6520356]

>>6520306
You can cherrypick the 2 or 3 games that have slowdown, but matter of fact still stands that Sega Saturn sill has better arcade ports than PS1.
Street Fighter Alpha 2: tons of cut frames on PS1, FMV intro cutscene with lots of artifacts.
Saturn version has way more animation frames, proper sprite-based intro cutscene, and it doesn't even uses the extra RAM cart.

[Anonymous No.6520360]

>>6520350
>calling the original Playstation "PS1"
zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.6520364]

>>6520360
True, it's just a bad habit.
PS, it is.

[Anonymous No.6520365]

>>6520267
>Inferior 3D
ps1 3d is aesthetic and stands up today. Nobody wants to recreate N64 3d graphics.

[Anonymous No.6520368]

>>6520267
>console war bait again
We are Idorts here, all consoles have their merits, stop peddling your trash

[Anonymous No.6520370]

>>6520365
>ps1 3d is aesthetic
go back.

[Anonymous No.6520371]

>>6520356
>tells others not to cherry pick
>cherry picks one shit example
Cope.

[Anonymous No.6520378]

>>6520350
Hi newfag.
>Toddler forgetting Australia shits on MGS hard with his /ogg/ threads

[Anonymous No.6520386]

>>6520350
>/v/edditor trying to bring his console wars to /vr/ with blatant falseflagging

[Anonymous No.6520390]

>>6520267
Best JRPGs of all time

[Anonymous No.6520392]

>>6520378
lol, true.
I guess he's just really one bitter old Amiga fanboy trying to instigate shit between sega/nintendo/sony fans.

[Anonymous No.6520395]

>>6520371
ok sonyboy.

[Anonymous No.6520396]

>>6520267
cheaper than a gaming PC at the time
introduced the normie to 3D games
easy access to pirated games later on
made trendy by marketing, normies suck that up

[Anonymous No.6520407]

>>6520395
Sorry about your objectively worse arcade ports (except for your cherry picked example) and inferior 2D graphics power.

[Anonymous No.6520410]

>>6520267
1) Better library of games & exclusives.
2) Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and Final Fantasy truly made the PS1 worth owning.
3) Cheaper than Saturn at the time.

[Anonymous No.6520415]

>>6520407
You're very, very alone with this opinion, sony fanboy.

[Anonymous No.6520417]

>>6520364
Underrated

[Anonymous No.6520426]

>>6520267
>Inferior 3D than the PC.
Not in the first years, only after 3dfx came out
>Inferior 2D than the Saturn.
Debatable
>Library is just shovelware.
Now that's just a lie
>FMV
Common on every platform except the shitty N64
>slow loading times
It's comparable to other consoles and even some PC CD games of the time

[Anonymous No.6520432]

>>6520415
Really? Because the shmup community would like a word with you, autistic Sega defender.

[Anonymous No.6520434]

>>6520396
>muh marketing
Low price was the biggest factor of ps1's success. Nobody wants to pay $70 for a bing bing wahoo garbage.

[Anonymous No.6520439]

>>6520432
The shmup community are typically anti-console and always vouch for the original arcade versions.
The rest of the video game community would like a word with you, autistic Sonygger.

[Anonymous No.6520442]

>>6520432
Radiant Silvergun was planned to get ported to PS, but the developers said the PS couldn't handle it.

[Anonymous No.6520443]

>>6520432
Saturn got better shmups than psx. Enjoy your laggy Darius Gaiden port tho sonyncel.

[Anonymous No.6520448]

>>6520434
This. I was on ps1 till ps3 came out. Then I finally got ps2.

[Anonymous No.6520449]

>>6520434
>Nobody wants to pay $70 for a bing bing wahoo garbage.
Millions of people would argue otherwise, /v/ sony warrior.

[Anonymous No.6520461]

>>6520267
>>6510817
Now make a thread for the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6520478]

>>6520434
>muh marketing
But that's it mostly. Sony poured previously unseen amounts of money into the PS marketing.

[Anonymous No.6520482]

>>6520478
Yeah, to promote good games mostly. It worked really well, the PS1 ended up with tons of great games and they're all really well known and ended up pushing the medium forward.

[Anonymous No.6520490]

>>6520449
>80 dollarydoos for bing bing wahoo, a rainbow colored gayme with plushy chatacters for 6 year old girls
>3 bucks for a pirated silent hill copy, greatest survival horror of all time
Gee, tough choice.

[Anonymous No.6520526]

>>6520490
Piracy is great, not gonna argue that, but you're aware you're acting like a 10 year old Mature Gamer, right?
Also Silent Hill wasn't available in 1996. By 1999, N64 jocks had all the sports and racing games they wanted.

[Anonymous No.6520527]

Can’t we all just get along?

[Anonymous No.6520532]

>>6520267
>Why do people like this console again?.
The games?

[Anonymous No.6520534]

>>6520410
In retrospect resident evil sucked before 4

[Anonymous No.6520541]

I forgot about r type delta
God tier game

[Anonymous No.6520568]

Is there a way to play the RPGs this system has but without loading time screens? Even on emulators they're very annoying.

[Anonymous No.6520573]

>>6520443
>laggy Darius Gaiden port
Citation needed.

[Anonymous No.6520581]

>>6520267
games, people used PSX to play videogames.

[Anonymous No.6520596]

>>6520573
Compared to the arcade version or Saturn port

[Anonymous No.6520602]

>>6520534
In retrospect your parents should've taken a long walk instead.

[Anonymous No.6520667]

>>6520443
>Saturn got better shmups than psx.
No. Einhänder. Raiden DX. Gradius Gaiden. R-Types. R-Type Delta. Zanac X Zanac
>Enjoy your laggy Darius Gaiden port tho sonyncel.
Bad game, typical Segautist cope.
Enjoy your inferior ports of good shmups like Raystorm, DonPachi, and In The Hunt.

[Anonymous No.6520673]

>>6520667
>Raystorm, DonPachi, and In The Hunt.
Good job naming the 3 ports that had slowdown on Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6520675]

Sony ruined gaming.

[Anonymous No.6520676]

>>6520667
>Einhänder
Typical square RPG fanboy naming this game first.
It has a good OST, but the actual game is not great for shmup standards, it's just a cute 2.5D novelty game.

[Anonymous No.6520692]

>>6520667
Still preferring the Saturn over PS1.
...and that controller sucked for 2D games.

[Anonymous No.6520693]

>>6520267
>Inferior 3D than the N64
correct, but at least most 3D PS1 games target 30 fps rather than 20 fps like the N64
>Inferior 2D than the Saturn.
correct, but still fully capable at 2D (support for multiple layers, lots of sprites, scaling, rotation, transparency, lots of on-screen colors), only real weakness was the lack of RAM for arcade games with large ROMs / animation frames (wouldn't be much of a problem if it had a RAM cart like the Saturn)

>>6520356
>you can cherrypick
>cherrypicks SFA2's FMV intro
SFA2 Gold / Dash has a sprite-based intro, it's almost like Capcom got lazy with the vanilla port

[Anonymous No.6520695]

>>6520675
Sony was always about movie games since the beginning.
Its because sony werent gamedevs first. I would much rather live in a world where it was still sega and nintendo. Sony lacks the charm and innovation of both

[Anonymous No.6520702]

>>6520267
Only poor "people" like/d the Playstation.

[Anonymous No.6520708]

>>6520306
>Actually it had better 2D than the Saturn

[Anonymous No.6520709]

>>6520676
>It has a good OST, but the actual game is not great for shmup standards, it's just a cute 2.5D novelty game.
Were you referring to NiGHTS?
>>6520673
More than you named so far.

[Anonymous No.6520715]

>>6520693
>correct, but at least most 3D PS1 games target 30 fps rather than 20 fps like the N64
wouldn't that make the ps1 better at 3D?

[Anonymous No.6520719]

>>6520267
Because Final Fantasy VII and Metal Gear are the bestest ever, apparently...

[Anonymous No.6520725]

>>6520715
No because he's talking bollocks.

[Anonymous No.6520731]

>>6520667
>no Battle Garegga
Into the trash the SoiStation goes.

[Anonymous No.6520736]

>>6520725
I can't think of an n64 game that doesn't have horrendous frame drops outside of the meme 60fps titles it has.

[Anonymous No.6520751]

>>6520667
Enjoy your inferior ports of Sexy Parodius, Soukyugurentai, Shienryu, Gunbird. Strikers 1945 and Thunder Force V, snoyboy

[Anonymous No.6520753]

>>6520751
Thunder Force V is supposed to be better on PS1. Saturn's got some unfortunate performance issues. PS1 is a locked 60.

[Anonymous No.6520770]

>>6520753
Not true, both versions perform similarly, whereas the PS1 is missing entire background layers and numerous visual effects.

[Anonymous No.6520771]

>>6520667
>Einhänder
Overrated and boring, Square should stick to making jarpigs.
>Raiden DX
Ok.
>Gradius Gaiden
Gradius dumbed down for shitplayers and is only liked because it's more stylish than 1-4.
>R-Types
Runs too fast, not an accurate port job.
>R-Type Delta
Series went to shit after II.
>Zanac X Zanac
Compile fucking blows, my dude.

>Darius Gaiden
>bad
Troll harder next time.

[Anonymous No.6520774]

>>6520770
I'll compare performance right now, prepare a comparison of visual effects.

[Anonymous No.6520796]

>>6520774
Don't even waste your time. You can see here in particular on Stage 2 both versions match each other frame for frame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTc_ec3ZaM

[Anonymous No.6520801]

>>6520796
Emulated comparisons are not genuine, Saturn has major frame drops on just stage 1, I'm playing it right now.

[Anonymous No.6520807]

>>6520715
no, most N64 games performed poorly because Nintendo was unwillingly to allow devs to use custom microcodes to avoid "graphical degradation"

Nintendo's motto was "graphics and effects over performance"

[Anonymous No.6520825]

>>6520801
Both versions have their slowdown. The PS1 version is NOT locked at 60 FPS lol

[Anonymous No.6520895]

>>6520709
>More than you named so far.
What, you want me to name the amount of 2D games that are better on Saturn than on PS1? I'm not your slave, go and google that shit. Have fun.

[Anonymous No.6520903]

>>6520693
>it's almost like Capcom got lazy with the vanilla port
That's usually a problem with Capcom, but still doesn't excuse the fact that PS1 can't retain as many frames as Saturn (and without the RAM cart).
Also I was talking about vanilla because that's what me and my friends had back in the day, I never knew about Gold until much later.

[Anonymous No.6520909]

>>6520825
Not him but it performs a lot better than the Saturn version. I'm not sure if it's locked at 60 all the time though, it's been a while since I played.
>>6520895
There are more on PS1. Google it.

[Anonymous No.6520917]

>>6520909
>more
Yeah, more shovelware.
But when you compare the 2D games that have versions on both systems, Saturn always ends up winning, with the exception of the 3 games you mentioned and maybe SOTN (I still think SOTN on Saturn is better because PS1 still has slowdowns, and transparency effects aren't even a real 2D effect anyway, more content is better)

[Anonymous No.6520927]

>>6520917
SotN has a ton of issues thanks to its poorly handled porting process. I don't think it's worth playing on Saturn unless someone really willing does the work to unfuck it. The Ps1 has numerous gorgeous and fun 2D games, hybrid games, and the biggest problem is not a lot of people know about them beyond the obvious ones like Mega Man X and Tomba.

[Anonymous No.6520947]

>>6520927
>unless someone really willing does the work to unfuck it.
Apparently someone already did. I still don't think there's a "ton" of issues, it has more slowndowns, but the PS1 already does too.
>Mega Man X and Tomba.
X4 is also (and better) on Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6520951]

>>6520267
>le shovelware maymay

The thing is; yes. There's a lot of shovelware. But everyone who's not a mindless consoomer retard has the ability to walk right by the shovelware and pick up the obviously good games instead.

And of course there's the fact that 90% of the shovelware is japan exclusive weird shit and most of the rest of it is sports and ports. Ports as shovelware arent an entirely bad thing. Doom on PS1 is shovelware, it's fun as fuck.

Also, Saturn had better 2D, but that was wasted almost entirely on shmups (a super niche genre outside japan) and ports (shovelware) of arcade games.

N64 had better 3D in that it had no jaggies and it didn't have that polygon flickering thing PS1 had. But its textures look like brightly colored, flat crap. N64 also has a library the equivalent of 15% the size of the PS1's. Additionally, if you look up the best selling games that gen, PS1 had 6 of the top ten best sellers, while N64 had 4. PS1 also has more million seller And N64 has a much higher volume of shovelware than PS1 in general. 3 out of every 5 N64 games is a port, a simple racing game or a bad licensed game. And then what? 15 good games? Out of 350 games total... What does 3D capability matter when you have so few games, so much shovelware and so few system sellers? (that were almost all sequels, BTW)

[Anonymous No.6520970]

>>6520825
>>6520796
Anyway, I spent the time comparing Stage 1 between TFV and TFVPS,
1. Saturn version looks better. Infinite planes are made use of to give the expansive sea a much cleaner look. It's distinctly "less flat" and far more dynamic looking.
2. Explosions on PS1 have a transparent fadeout not present on Saturn.
3. PS1 backgrounds in particular look very dull, TFV is a mixed bag visually as is but the PS1 version definitely looks early PS1 rather than mid-PS1 like it is.
4. Most importantly, the PS1 version does NOT drop below 60fps once during this first stage. I have not tested past this. The Saturn version has a tendency to drop frames hard during area transitions (above/below water in stage 1), during motion of 3D element and will slow down to a crawl at times which is very unfortunate.
5. They both have the awesome UI, PS1 emphasizes it a little more with command line read outs which is just sleek as hell.

If you want a better playing game, play the PS1 version. If you want a prettier one, Saturn version. I do not think the Saturn version is unplayable just that the frame drops it does get are extremely unfortunate because I don't even think the game is that intricate looking compared to other Saturn titles.

>>6520947
The SotN patch from the chinks is very minimal. I was reading conversations between Saturn devs and the problems with SotN are tremendous and it's clear the team did a very poor job of handling it.

[Anonymous No.6520973]

>>6520267
>Library is just shovelware
Could have just said you never had one. Not our fault you got gypped back then.

[Anonymous No.6520975]

>>6520917
>when you compare the 2D games that have versions on both systems, Saturn always ends up winning, with the exception of the 3 games you mentioned and maybe SOTN
Wow that's a lot of zoom. I just said the first three random games off the top of my head that came to mind and now you're claiming those are the only exceptions. No point in even arguing with you because you have such limited knowledge on the subject. Next you'll probably try to use some youtube videos of emulation or maybe link to some old innacurate gamespot forum post as "proof"
Now go back to playing on your mini console emulator boxes and leave analysis of real hardware to people who have been playing games longer than you've been alive.

[Anonymous No.6520982]

>>6520951
>ports (shovelware) of arcade games

fucking what?

[Anonymous No.6520994]

>>6520970
>I was reading conversations between Saturn devs and the problems with SotN are tremendous and it's clear the team did a very poor job of handling it.
What Saturn devs? Also, yeah I'm not saying the port isn't a clusterfuck, but precisely in spite of it being a clusterfuck, the fact it's still playable and has more content than the PS1 (including a much welcome running boots, much better than backdashing) goes to show you that despite devs not doing a proper job, Saturn is still capable of a lot. Now imagine if the Saturn port was handled by a proper team with enough experience, time and budget. The PS1 version would be laughed at.

[Anonymous No.6520996]

>>6520975
nice try history revisioning, sonytard, everyone knows Saturn has the better versions of most 2D games and there's little your sony-fueled seethe self can do about it.

[Anonymous No.6521045]

>>6520994
>What Saturn devs
A few from segaextreme. Some of the issues I've seen pointed out are poor placement of game data files being one of the major causes for the longer load times, poor handling of layers and priorities of graphics, terrible utilization of hardware, massive resource wasting, using the wrong hardware for suboptimal or the wrong task causing performance issues. It's basically a huge clean up job but it's a job that can be done.

[Anonymous No.6521093]

>>6520996
>everyone on a forum i went to said a thing so it must be true!
Holy shit these Sega tards are stupider than I thought.

[Anonymous No.6521105]

>>6521093
Nobody mentioned any forums, anon. Calm down.
Post your proof of PS1 getting better versions of Saturn game most of the times, and then we'll give the PS1 the mention of having better 2D than Saturn. Good luck!

[Anonymous No.6521134]

>>6521105
>i never owned the original hardware so i don't know and i want you to spoonfeed me
The only proof I need is that I randomly stated three games, and your response was
>w-well those are the only exceptions
That's so wrong that like I said it's not even worth engaging in conversation with a mongoloid who would think such a thing. Let us know if you want to take back your retarded statement and admit that you're just a clueless, seething, sad Sega fanboy. Toodles!

[Anonymous No.6521138]

wah wah wah stop liking the N64 and Saturn
don't point the deficiencies of the PS1.
MUH 6 GORILLION GAMES

[Anonymous No.6521150]

>>6521134
>randomly
right...
Good luck convincing the rest of the world that PS1 is better at 2D than Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6521180]

Despite the shovelware it still had more good games than the competition. Pains me to say that because I have a lot of issues with what Sony did to the industry.

[Anonymous No.6521218]

>>6520526
The only n64 racing games that are worth a shit are rush games.

[Anonymous No.6521219]

>>6521180
I'm not actually familiar with ps1 shovelware, even bad games like blasto are obviously not meant to be shovelware, they're just games with poor direction.

[Anonymous No.6521221]

>>6521218
ok

[Anonymous No.6521224]

>>6520267
A post this bad should be a permaban

[Anonymous No.6521229]

>>6521218
Hot deflect and mediocre taste.

[Anonymous No.6521243]

>>6521219
Toward the end of the console's life it started to be a thing. At the store I usually bought games from there was a huge bin of $5 Playstation games like you would see for DVDs at Wal-mart these days. I ended up with a lot of those because my dad was a cheap fuck. Some were gems, I remember a couple out of the lot that Take Two released at that price point that were actually pretty good. Most of it was trash.

[Anonymous No.6521265]

>>6521229
>hot deflect
Try to deflect 80 bucks for a game.

[Anonymous No.6521278]

>>6521265
>it's the same guy arguing about "da bucks" again
you're not even arguing video games anymore, you're venting your childhood's economic situation.

[Anonymous No.6521510]

>>6521180
What did sony do

[Anonymous No.6521526]

>>6520267
mgs
re2
sotn
ff7
xenogears
suikoden 2
ridge racer type 4
ace combat 3 jp
crash 2
spyro
twisted metal 2
ff tactics
kof98
einhander
tomb raider
kings field

yeah wow what a piece of shit no games, how did it ever catch on *eye rolls*

[Anonymous No.6521539]

>>6520267
The games. Spyro MGS and SOTN already justify liking it and that's an infinitesimal sample of the system's good games. Inb4 muh OOT, it's not a contest. Also the dualshock is still one of the greatest controllers of all time.

[Anonymous No.6521595]

>>6520280
You're like an anti-troll. I like you.

[Anonymous No.6521598]

>>6521265
I worked for it and got a game I still play fairly regularly 22 years later (MNSG64). Die late.

[Anonymous No.6521603]

>>6521093
It's a forum full of Saturn Homebrew devs that know what they're looking at when debugging it. If anyone without access to the original source code can figure out what the game is doing wrong, it's them. So far it boils down to the following:

-Extremely poor usage of VDP2. One whole layer is wasted for the text in the story textboxes. So whether the text is being drawn or not, that layer is reserved for text and can't be used for background graphics.

-VDP2 VRAM timings are actually wrong. As a result everything in VDP2's VRAM is offset in a way to compensate which ends up being wasteful. You can actually see this present itself as a bug in Emulators as the text in the text boxes isn't aligned correctly.

-Many background objects are instead being drawn as sprites by VDP1. On top of it, many of them are being drawn twice to try and do some crazy hack to fake transparencies that isn't even needed. And in many cases it actually prevents real transparencies from working correctly when they would work perfectly fine if things weren't drawn twice.

-Proper transparencies are only used in areas where they're 100% sure to be safe from bugs/errors. If VDP2 was used more correctly though this could have been avoided.

-The Disc is laid out poorly, however this can be ok if the correct CD-ROM driver is used and you set up your Directory table correctly at start up. Most fast loading Saturn games basically read the whole directory at start up and load it into RAM with information on exactly what spot on the disc it's at so it can quickly access it. SotN does at least seem to be doing this, however it seems they used SGL's library instead of the much more efficient one from SBL. SGL's driver for some reason is just stupidly slow, so as a result the game just takes a stupidly long time to load.

-FMVs are encoded very poorly in Truemotion. So poorly that even Cinepak can do a better job:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-7-IGOA0ws

[Anonymous No.6521624]

>>6520331
Not until mods do something about it. Shit like this is why I have half the board hidden.

[Anonymous No.6521647]

Because it's amazing. Seethe and cope.

[Anonymous No.6521654]

>>6520267
There are dozens of PS1 games I love and could replay forever. Even a single genre on PS1 could keep me content for a long time, be it SRPG, shmup, fighter, whatever.

I just can't say the same thing about any other 5th gen platform.

[Anonymous No.6521663]

>>6520267
>FMV
That was impressive back in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.6521689]

>>6520534
Resident Evil 4 sucks. The newer RE games suck. Which is why they keep pumping out remakes of the classics because everybody(except you) loves the original Resident Evil games.

[Anonymous No.6521716]

>>6521278
Weren't we talking about which one was the better console?? If we're talking about now I'd rather play both on an overclocked emulator than on the consoles so theres no point.

[Anonymous No.6521723]

>>6521219
Fuckibg Blasto. That game with a couple of control and enemy spawn tweaks would be a classic.

[Anonymous No.6521748]

Its generation was the downfall of videogames and its transformation into modern style over substance shit. /vr/ should be pre-1995 games and any kid who thinks their fucking Playstation or N64 is retro should go to /v/ with the rest of the modern gaming filth.

[Anonymous No.6521753]

>>6521748
This one of the most deranged opinions I've ever read on this board.

[Anonymous No.6521762]

>>6521753
Only because you're one of the fucking kids who believed their goddamn N64 and/or PS1 wasn't the transformation into the fucking non-gamer culture of the time where companies tried to get all the fucking kids more fascinated by LOLGRAPHICS and/or OMGSTORY and other bullshit than actual quality gameplay. With only a small number of exceptions, the N64 and PS1 library was full of goddamn horrible games, and I use the term "games" loosely for that crap. As soon as people started thinking fucking Mario 64 was good and that Metal Goddamn Gear Solid movie was in any way an actual game (not to mention The Interactive Boring Linear Experience Half-Life for PC, meaning it wasn't just consoles that went to shit), gaming was basically dead.

[Anonymous No.6521765]

>>6520267
It had more good games. Sorry pleb.

[Anonymous No.6521768]

>>6521762
I can practically see the spittle flying from your mouth as a vein bulges in your forehead, Anon. Get help.

[Anonymous No.6521771]

>>6521762
So what games do you like

[Anonymous No.6521785]

>>6521768
You're looking in a mirror.
>>6521771
Every single time. You rally against something and some fucking mad as hell little snot will say "WELL WHAT DO YOU LIKE" with the intention of shitting all over any fucking thing you can ever say regardless of its quality. No. Fuck you. I don't play your childish games.

[Anonymous No.6521806]

>>6521785
Nah man im just wondering what you like. Theres no ulterior motive

[Anonymous No.6521832]

[Anonymous No.6522002]

>>6520970
Playing PS1 Thunderforce V is like playing a bad emulator with half the graphics missing.

[Anonymous No.6522446]

>>6522002
No, but it is nice to have a 60fps version

[Anonymous No.6522826]

>>6521526
>ace combat 3 jp
>jp
what's the difference?

[Anonymous No.6522829]

>>6522826
The US version basically cut half the game. The Japanese version is fully translated now too.

[Anonymous No.6523024]

>>6520267
it has Crash Bandicoot bro

it has Crash Bandicoot

[Anonymous No.6523543]

>>6520267
it has Spyro the Dragon bro

it has Spyro the Dragon

[Anonymous No.6523689]

Even if 90% of the PS1 library was irredeemable shovelware, it would still have well over 250 games worth playing. Now apply that same 90% rule to the other 5th gen systems.

[Anonymous No.6523705]

>>6522446
You're making a mountain out of a molehill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ztCyMOZJQ

[Anonymous No.6523720]

>>6520350
>australia-kun
this guy has been rent free in your head for like 5 years now, he was shit posting for a couple of months, you crying about him for this long is fucking pathetic.

[Anonymous No.6523740]

>>6523720
Not him but you're probably australia-kun trying to deflect accusations. It's pretty obvious when he posts, a lot of the times he makes it obvious (sega-system, etc).
I imagine a lot of the times people accuse other random shitposters of being australia-kun, bound to happen, but the guy is still around.
Every board/certain threads have their own -kuns. It's something that's bound to happen with anonymous posting. Certain shitposters spam too much eventually other regulars start noticing them by the way they type or whatever other trademark traits they may have.
Personally, I don't even find australia-kun that bad because I see him more as a mentally ill person than as an actual asshole shitposter.

[Anonymous No.6523779]

>>6523740
>you're probably australia-kun
>I see him more as a mentally ill person
This is rich coming from a person with paranoid schizophrenia. You need to take a break from the internet.

[Anonymous No.6523782]

>>6520267
Very nice bait. PS1 library is legendary though.
To even compare it to N64 is not even worth my time

[Anonymous No.6523786]

>>6520306
The Playstation couldn't even handle Capcom's tag team fighters. Its sprite memory limits were that bad.

[Anonymous No.6523795]

>>6523779
>noo YOU are the mentally ill person.
Nah, noticing when some weird guy keeps spamming "sega system" stuff doesn't mean I'm like him.

[Anonymous No.6523909]

>>6520350
Is this australia-kun different to the /shmupg/ australia-kun?

[Anonymous No.6523942]

>>6523909
is the australian-kun from /shmupg/ the one who dislikes Super Castlevania Bros. IV?

[Anonymous No.6523983]

>>6523705
Not particularly. I've been completely unbiased, I like both and have stated their advantages clearly. You're looking for a fight but you already lost.

[Anonymous No.6523997]

>>6520267
>library is just shovelware
pero that's not the N64 tho

[Anonymous No.6524030]

Only non whites like the PS1.

[Anonymous No.6524051]

>>6523983
Nah, I just figured I'd post some actual footage from real hardware so people could see how it actually runs for themselves.

[Anonymous No.6524534]

Saturn is better at 2D
Incredible to see ps1 boys itt arguing otherwise

[Anonymous No.6524595]

>>6521526
you forgot ff8 and 9

[Anonymous No.6524637]

>>6520267
All I'm reading from this is PC always wins baby.

[Anonymous No.6524646]

>>6524534
It really depends on what you're talking about. The Saturn's 2D Strength isn't sprites, it's backgrounds from VDP2. Saturn gets those effectively for free so it then can save sprites for the important things that need to be sprites. PS1 doesn't have this, but it can flood the screen with sprites faster than the Saturn can simply because it's GPU is faster than VDP1. PS1 can also just due transparencies and color blending far better than the Saturn can.

So basically a 2D game that can fit the Saturn's strengths (2D Fighters, Arcade ports, things like Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Silhouette Mirage, etc.) are going to turn out better on the Saturn. However things that play to the PS1's strengths (Symphony of the Night) are going to turn out better on PS1 than they would on Saturn. Even if SotN was handled by a competent team, the transparencies that game does and the tons of sprites it draws at times would prove to be difficult if not impossible to replicate on Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6524676]

>>6520267
>>Inferior 3D than the N64
well you say that but nintendo basically overreacted to sony entering the industry and demanded exclusitivity. most companies gave nintendo the finger. square canceled FF7 on the n64 which didnt even look the same with a tgs set of screen shots and we got a different one on the ps .now while every one points that out it made sonys library a million times larger.

tekken 1-3 on the original ps. street fighter alpha /zero - 3 (not street fighter 3). mortalkombat 3 arcade perfect was shown off as a almost release title to be purchasable within the first 3 months of the system being released .you have to remember arcades used to be big and the ps rode that early. it also killed arcades.

it also had madden and nba series games.ea sports franchises all over it. fps were not as big back then but it had doom and i want to say quake.

[Anonymous No.6524692]

>>6521603
It's worth keeping in mind that 'just use VDP2 more' isn't that simple, otherwise everybody would always be doing it. The system's design was a massive pain to program for, particularly if you were porting a game rather than building or rebuilding it from the ground-up. The system's guts having more potential doesn't excuse the pain they are to work with.

[Anonymous No.6524695]

>>6524676
I don't see how any of that has anything to do with the fact that
>Inferior 3D than the N64

[Anonymous No.6524702]

>>6524646
Don't forget how the Saturn hamstrung itself by not supporting a resolution mode with the same width as the PS1's lowest, which 2D games tended to use. So even if a port was otherwise good, you had to pick if you were developing your 2D assets for the Saturn or the PS1 and if you picked the PS1, you had to make some serious compromises on Saturn to how good they'd be able to look.

[Anonymous No.6524705]

Are the PS1 Metal Slug ports considered to be any good? I've been playing a little of X and awful load times aside, I've been really enjoying it. Not a Neo Geo, but also not the nightmare of having a Neo Geo in 2020.

[Anonymous No.6524742]

>>6524705
You can skip Metal Slug 1, it stops to load data in the middle of the stages and has severe framecuts, the waterfall in the first stage is seizure-inducing, it has like 2 frames of animation.

Metal Slug X is ok.

[Anonymous No.6524780]

Saturn could barely handle transparencies. It had a few exclusives like Burning Rangers and Deep Fear but if you actually bother to play them (which no one here does) then you realize it's Reddit-tier meme shit. Anyone defending the Saturn on this board is just LARPing as a retarded neckbeard

[Anonymous No.6524812]

>>6524780
The only reason anyone pretends to give a FUCK about burning rangers is PSO. Burning rangers is at best an okay game.

The only reason to like the saturn is contrarianism. You're too cool for the dreamcast and genesis despite both having more games youd want to play in better technical quality

[Anonymous No.6524886]

>>6524780
Zwei, bulk slash, dragon force, rsg, rayearth, fighting vipers, necronomicon and many others are exclusive worth playing on the saturn. Seethe harder sonyboi, your system sucks and its only saving grace is 3rd party devs using fmvs to fool people into playing shit for casuals

[Anonymous No.6524925]

>>6520267
>Inferior 2D than the Saturn
*laughs in Parappa the Rapper*

[Anonymous No.6525320]

>>6524692
Yet they were able to figure out how to use the other layers just fine. They simply gimped themselves by keeping one layer reserved at all times for something as silly as Story Text that only shows up a handful of times in the game.

>>6524702
I agree not having a 256 pixel wide mode was dumb, but the reason you've brought up is equally dumb. Most 2D games didn't use that mode, they used all kinds of different modes. And this same issue was there in the previous generation between the SNES and Genesis. Yes Genesis did have a 256 pixel wide mode but most games that were made on the Genesis used the 320 pixel wide mode. That didn't stop them from getting ported to the SNES or SNES games getting ported to the Genesis and properly using the 320 pixel wide mode.

Dealing with that issue has the following solutions:
Pillarbox it (What Megaman X3 does)
Extend the viewable area (What the Gradius, Parodius, Salamander, etc. ports do)
Stretch everything (What Symphony of the Night does)

Of those extending the viewable area is the preferred solution by a long shot.

[Anonymous No.6525329]

>>6525320
You don't get to make the rules when you're the platform being ported to, anon. A lot of the Saturn's hardware decisions only really make sense under the assumption that the system will be a lead platform for games. You have no way of knowing while designing it of course, but that's why you don't make weird, annoying designs.
I'm not trying to say the Saturn was awful or that every bad port was Sega's fault, but these things are going to happen when your system makes it awkward to port things from what's by far the most popular platform. Not everybody's going to put in the extra work.

[Anonymous No.6525570]

>>6524925
To be fair, in the style of Parappa, games like Rakuga Kids on N64 look much better (way more animation frames, way more).
But you still couldn't compare it to Saturn stuff like Princess Crown.

[Anonymous No.6525834]

>>6525570
I haven't seen any 64 or Saturn game where the characters twist and bend as fluently as in Parappa. The characters themselves also don't look like heavily compressed garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JSmZFxdVPc

[Anonymous No.6525875]

>>6525834
Those effects are actually 3D, not 2D. It's just flat polygonal models with 2D textures.
Again not impressive and can't touch saturn 2D like princess crown

[Anonymous No.6525890]

>>6525875
but PS1 technically can't do 2D in the traditional sense. Instead they treat all "2D" stuff as flat 3D polygons which is what they're doing explicitly in Parappa

[Anonymous No.6525904]

>>6525875
I just watched gameplay of Princess Crown. Although impressive it's apples and oranges to Parappa and it's nothing that couldn't be done on PS1. Just fairly detailed sprites with an uncanny amount of animation frames.

[Anonymous No.6525919]

>>6520267
because the controller isn't flaming ass like the n64's, saturn's, and even the pc's before wasd-type setups were standard

plus while the 3d capabilities weren't technically as strong as the n64's, 3d games were often smoother and better-optimized than n64 games. the 20 fps standard the n64 isn't present in pretty much any 3d ps1 game. also the saturn being better at 2d is a total meme. there's no effective difference in 2d capability between the two

[Anonymous No.6525921]

>>6520267
also flat out much more developer support, easier-to-understand hardware for developers compared to n64 while still being progressive and not immediately dead in the water like the saturn was

[Anonymous No.6525926]

>>6525919
>3d capabilities weren't technically as strong as the n64's
Only on paper. In practice the PS1 has higher resolution assets, higher resolution games at higher framerates.

[Anonymous No.6525931]

>>6525926
z-buffer and floating point vectors give n64 an edge though

[Anonymous No.6525942]

>>6525904
>it's nothing that couldn't be done on PS1. Just fairly detailed sprites with an uncanny amount of animation frames.
Except that's the playstation's problem.

[Anonymous No.6526143]

>>6520267
>Blurry ass textures
>20 fps games
>A third of the games the ps1 got
>10 mb games
How can 64 faggots act smug for this piece of shit?

[Anonymous No.6526161]

>>6526143
>incorrect perspective
>warping textures
>couldn't draw large 3D spaces
>over 2/3 of its library is shovelware, among the most unplayable kind of shovelware consoles ever saw
>most of the space on the discs was spent on FMVS full of artifacts
How can PS faggots act smug for this piece of shit?

[Anonymous No.6526236]

>incorrect perspective
>couldn't do transparencies
>couldn't draw large 3D spaces
>over 2/3 of its library is in moonrunes
>most of the space on the discs was spent on FMVS full of artifacts
How can Saturn faggots act smug for this piece of shit?

[Anonymous No.6526278]

>>6526143
>>6526161
>>6526236
So it's settled, 5th gen is fucking worthless trash.

[Anonymous No.6526398]

>>6520702
Now my soon, you must choose:
Will you take
>the console
>the failed arcade cabinet
>the 15 games bing bing machine
Damn, that's hard

[Anonymous No.6526413]

>>6526398
Low effort console war, /v/-tier.
Enjoy the same games every PS fanboy regurgitates to death (all multiplats like tomb raider, mgs, ff7, etc) with awful loading times.

[Anonymous No.6526420]

>>6526143
>>6526161
>>6526236
>>6526278
Based I still like it tho

[Anonymous No.6526554]

>>6525329
It's not about making the rules though. It's simply pointing out that the 256 pixel wide mode isn't as big of an issue for the reason you're describing. In that scenario it can be easily worked around and not a whole lot of original 2D games of that generation actually were designed around that mode. It only really impacted ports from older hardware like the SNES, NES, SMS, MSX, older arcade hardware, etc. The only reason Symphony of the Night falls into this category is because they copied a good chunk of the assets from Rondo of Blood which was on the PC-Engine which was 256 pixels wide.

For porting SotN to the Saturn, the main issue is really that Konami gave it to a team of incompetent developers. They clearly had teams that knew the Saturn well and could use the hardware competently while working around the 256 Pixel Wide issue. See the ports of Gradius, Parodius, Salamander, etc. for examples.

[Anonymous No.6526558]

>>6525931
Doesnt matter when 90% of the games run like fucking shit.

[Anonymous No.6526636]

>>6526161
That leaves 1/3 of PS1 games worth playing, which is still more games than the entire N64 library.
>>6526236
>>over 2/3 of its library is in moonrunes
Only affects shitty jarpigs, the sidescrollers and shmups are completely unaffected

[Anonymous No.6526731]

i think at the end of the day it really does come down to the controller. the dualshock was such a stroke of genius that modern controllers STILL haven't effectively moved past it, aside from slightly re-arranging the buttons/sticks. this was helped all the more by how specifically batshit the n64 and saturn 3d controllers were

[Anonymous No.6526741]

The only people who like PS1 are poorfags whose mommy wouldn't buy them a real Nintendo console as a kid and they've carried their anger and resentment into adulthood, seemingly not realizing they can just buy and enjoy whatever they want at this point. No need to cling to the scraps you were tossed as a child.

[Anonymous No.6526742]

>>6526731
I vastly prefer n64. I dont like how either psx controller sits in my hand. The saturn is also dope

[Anonymous No.6526748]

>>6526742
that's just like your opinion, man. consumers at the time and now, as well as the industry at large disagree entirely

[Anonymous No.6526753]

>>6526741
>muh poorfags are why people don't enjoy slideshow framerates and garbage controllers for retarded babies
the ps1 was $100 more expensive than the n64 as well

[Anonymous No.6526756]

>>6526731
>another "THE N64 CONTROLLER IS SO CRAZY!!! HOW DO I HOLD IT???" post
Go make a youtube channel
>shitting on saturn controller
What? Way more modern consoles use the saturn design over duelshock(switch,xbone)
>thry just rearrange the duelshock
Oh no.... You dont honestly think microsoft was looking at the psx when they made xbox do you

[Anonymous No.6526758]

>>6526731
>shitting on 3d saturn controller
never held it confirmed

[Anonymous No.6526762]

>>6526756
the n64 works ok but it just objectively wasn't as innovative as the dualshock. and the saturn at best is abstractiely similar to an xbox or switch controller. notice how with those controllers you can actually reach the buttons properly, on top of not being a horrific circular shape. and yeah, i think xbox probably was looking at the actual successful console over the one that literally never had any relative success or effective innovation

[Anonymous No.6526767]

>>6526748
>>6526762
The xbox literally used a dreamcast controller during development for a while
Why are you dickriding sony so hard. You sound like someone who maybe saw a picture of these controllers

[Anonymous No.6526769]

at the end of the day, ps1 won the generation outright. you can personally prefer the n64 and saturn controller all you want but your taste doesn't reflect what actually happened. insisting over and over again that "n-no!! it was bad actually because i forced myself to like something else more!!!" doesn't change history

[Anonymous No.6526771]

>>6526762
>abstractly similar
Way more similar than a dualshock

[Anonymous No.6526773]

>>6526767
last time i checked the dreamcast wasn't the saturn, or ergonomically anything like its 3d controller. plus even the original xbox controller innovated quite a bit over the dreamcast's. it's just fundementally more similar to the dualshock, even by coincidence. which is all the more a testament to how ahead of its time it was

[Anonymous No.6526774]

>>6526769
The only people arguing like that are the sony people. Though.

[Anonymous No.6526778]

>>6526771
you can keep lying but it doesn't change history. a console that failed right out of the gate probably wasn't too influential in a competitive market, sorry to say

[Anonymous No.6526780]

>>6526774
op was arguing like that and so are you

[Anonymous No.6526789]

>>6526773
>last time i checked the dreamcast wasn't the saturn, or ergonomically anything like its 3d controller.
The original Dreamcast prototype controller is literally a Saturn 3D controller with a VMU slot hacked on.

[Anonymous No.6526791]

>>6526789
ok? do you have a dreamcast controller up your ass at this very moment? last time i checked dreamcast wasn't even a part of the conversation. why do you think they changed the controller from that prototype to begin with?

[Anonymous No.6526794]

>>6526731
dude what the fuck are you saying

[Anonymous No.6526797]

>>6526791
controllers dont exist in a vaccuum dog. the saturn3d controller directly influenced the dreamcast which we have on fucking record as being a big influence on the Xbox. I dont know why you're trying to paint the dualshock as some far reaching thing here

[Anonymous No.6526801]

>>6526762
>circular shape
Have you ever held a Saturn 3D controller and played games with it extensively? You make it sound like the Dragon Quest slime controller.

[Anonymous No.6526802]

>>6526794
>hurr mnm button colors means every controller with them was based off a dreamcast prototype
meanwhile, all the features the xbox controller had that were on the dualshock and notably not the saturn controller:
>two analog sticks
>analog triggers
>two layers of trigger buttons
>rumble
>analog stick buttons
pretty much every modern controller innovation right there. all started with the dualshock and all of which mysteriously missing from the glorious saturn controller. all bow down to dead-in-the-water mediocrity cause a guy on the internet made a misleading image from google image results

[Anonymous No.6526804]

>>6526801
i've used it. i prefer the dualshock. as did most others

[Anonymous No.6526805]

>>6526236
>>6526161
>>6526143
the more i study 5th gen the more i think it shouldn't be on /vr/
literally everything on 5th gen can be found better in 4th gen or before
only very few games across all consoles actually make use of the 3d in any impactful way. and even then i wouldnt call the games better, more just novel. they are incredibly janky with bad framerates

[Anonymous No.6526806]

>>6526802
>meanwhile, all the features the xbox controller had that were on the dualshock and notably not the saturn controller
>analog triggers
And that's where your wrong. The dualshock didn't get analog triggers until the PS3. The first controller with analog triggers was the Saturn 3D Controller.

Seriously the Original Xbox Controller is just the Dreamcast Controller with a second Analog Stick and a few more buttons.

[Anonymous No.6526808]

>>6526797
>I dont know why you're trying to paint the dualshock as some far reaching thing here
because its innovations stuck whilst the n64 and dreamcast's "innovations" were either chiseled off entirely a generation later or refined into something comparatively functional to the dualshock

[Anonymous No.6526809]

>>6526802
what? this is just video game history here. i have no dog in this race that ended over 20 years ago. the saturn3d had a huge impact on controller design

[Anonymous No.6526813]

>>6526808
*saturn's

[Anonymous No.6526814]

>>6526808
that just isnt true

[Anonymous No.6526815]

>>6526636
Nah, that leaves 1/3 of its library which most can be played on better platforms like N64 (yup, look up Rayman 2 and tell me it's better on PS), Dreamcast, PC, Xbox, etc, etc.
There's some OK quirky games on the PS but it's not really a console that has strong exclusives outside of a few jarpigs.

[Anonymous No.6526817]

>>6526806
>The dualshock didn't get analog triggers until the PS3.
leave it to saturnfags to make shit up. the dualshock 2 had analog EVERYTHING pretty much outside of the d-pad

[Anonymous No.6526819]

>>6526815
If you're going to play that card then we can throw out the majority of the N64's library leaving only a handful of first party titles.

[Anonymous No.6526821]

>>6526802
ok brother didnt know about your condition here i made it more clear hope you can see it

[Anonymous No.6526824]

>>6526819
I mean, do it if you want, just don't pretend the PS is any better.

[Anonymous No.6526827]

>>6526819
thats not true. n64 has some good third parties.
i dunno. n64 has higher highs and its games benefit that the devs could just assume the players had an analog stick from the get go. i think all of the 3d psx games control really bad. im not claiming all the n64 3d games are winners either but mario zelda rogue squadron controls feel way better

[Anonymous No.6526828]

>>6526821
so now are we gonna horrifically copypaste saturn buttons onto the dualshock so we can larp that sony copied sega too? this doesn't mean anything

[Anonymous No.6526832]

>>6526817
>Dualshock 2
The Saturn pad still predates that. And the the Dualshock 2 triggers are pressure sensitive, not really the same kind of design as the analog triggers on the Saturn and Dreamcast controllers that later were adopted by Microsoft and eventually Sony.

[Anonymous No.6526834]

>>6526828
if sony makes a statement that they copied sega we can but seeing that we literally know for a fact microsoft did then i think i can feel safe in my photoshop

[Anonymous No.6526838]

again, everything the xbox controller added beyong the saturn design was something the dualshock already had. that's my point. the dualshock was innovative and microsoft had to make use of those innovations cause they knew they would be the embarrasment of 6th gen if they copied the unsuccessful, uninnovative saturn controller as-is. even if the control stick and face buttons are on the same level, and also had that weird slant in the first design (weird they got rid of those with the redesign considering how glorious and perfect the saturn's controller was. almost like they were copying another thing the dualshock got right off the bat or something, along with making the controller generally more thin and holdable, another thing the saturn 3d controller fucked up.)

[Anonymous No.6526843]

>>6526827
I didn't say it didn't have decent third party games, I said we can throw away most of them if we're going to invalidate games based on if they showed up on another system.

>>6526838
The Xbox Controller is just the Dreamcast controller with a 2nd analog stick, 2 more face buttons, and a Back button. Yeah they're more modern style analog sticks, but the similarity is too obvious to ignore. They even copied the memory card in the top of the controller aspect.

[Anonymous No.6526845]

>never the company
>didn't care for hardware quality, most early model systems got faulty disc drives
>burned sega into the ground by forcing them to pay for royalties on the CD presses
>funded piracy, not because they cared about 3rd worlders, but because they wanted to gain as much households as they possibly could, even by unfaithful means
>sent Bernard Stolar as a trojan horse to destroy Sega of America internally
>bought independent studios only to tear them apart and force their skilled programmers to work on soulless corporate-approved projects instead of what they really wanted to do, similar to EA and Activision's modus operandi
>built an army of rejected normalfags who don't have the passion required to be dedicated to actual video game companies, who constantly mock anyone who doesn't own exclusively Sony products
>pushed for the moviefication of video games harder than anyone else for obvious reasons
>literally the reason Sega was kicked out of the console market, despite what "muh Sega of Japan" narratives want you to believe

[Anonymous No.6526848]

>>6526838
i really like how you keep trying to tilt the argument from a debate on history to dumb console war baiting from 20 years ago.
but uh. you keep ignoring that saturn 3d had all those features you are claiming are exclusive to duelshock and keep trying to pass off the resemblance to the xbox controller as circumstantial when we know 100% for a fact it is not circumstantial and was a direct influence and again microsoft even used a dreamcast controller for a while.

also the controller is not the behemoth you claim it is and its circular nature does not play into how you grip the controller the way you think it does

[Anonymous No.6526853]

>>6526848
3D pad is probably the most comfortable controller from that generation.

[Anonymous No.6526854]

>>6526802
dualshock has only gotten rounder and rounger and bulkier as time has gone in culminating in current ps5 dualsense. sounds like the ps7 will just be a sega saturn controller to me bro. also analog triggers was not exclusive to the dualshock

[Anonymous No.6526857]

>They even copied the memory card in the top of the controller aspect.
this is uh completely made up. the xbox didn't use memory cards period

i'm not saying that the xbox controller couldn't have been inspired by the saturn's. i'm just pointing out how pretty much all of the innovations microsoft made over that saturn design were all things the dualshock did first. i don't care if sony was an actual influence on microsoft's design choices, the point is the dualshock was innovative enough to where the adaptions the rest of the industry made with their controllers, intentional or no, are all very similar to what the dualshock started out with

hell the dualshock was so innovative even sony couldn't make it better. pressure-sensitive face buttons and weird center touch screens were failed experiments while the dualshock 1 can effortlessly play most modern games even just because of how well its stuck

[Anonymous No.6526860]

>>6526762
>reach
huh

[Anonymous No.6526863]

>>6526854
>dualshock has only gotten rounder and rounger and bulkier as time has gone
wow more blatant misrepresentations of reality from the mediocrity worshippers. the ds3 is teeny tiny compared to the ds1 and the ds4's added width only makes it feel less comfortable than its predecessors. let's hope sony doesn't take more lessons from sega

[Anonymous No.6526864]

>>6526860
don't you love holding your controller like a right-tilted steering wheel because of how incongruous and wonky the button layout is

[Anonymous No.6526870]

>>6526857
if xbox was trying to copy the dualshock they did a really shitty job. what playstation controller has ever had holes in it like that?

[Anonymous No.6526871]

>>6526857
>this is uh completely made up. the xbox didn't use memory cards period
Hey dumbass what's this and where does it go?

[Anonymous No.6526873]

>>6526870
honestly i forgot about that. what was that even supposed to be for?

[Anonymous No.6526874]

>>6526864
what the fuck does that even mean?

[Anonymous No.6526878]

>>6526871
why did a console that came with a hard drive have this. it's superficiality is blatant which illustrates my point well

[Anonymous No.6526882]

>>6526873
Memory cards and the Microphone. Hmm, what other controller did that...

[Anonymous No.6526884]

>>6526854
Not rounder and rounder and bulkier. Dualshock 1-3 were perfect and then PS4 fixed what wasn't broken.

[Anonymous No.6526889]

>>6526878
In case you ran out of space on the HDD, or if you wanted to take your save data to a friends house without lugging your entire Xbox? The 360 had them too or did you forget that?

[Anonymous No.6526890]

>>6526882
it's not even similar to the vmu cause >no screen. in fact its reminding me a lot more of the n64 controller's extra slot as far as its actual function goes. and like i said, is superficial anyway and not a mainstaying innovation so who cares?

[Anonymous No.6526891]

>>6526863
i dunno bro... if i were you id be sweatin... id be sweatin

[Anonymous No.6526893]

>>6526891
>look mom i put the google images result of an apple next to an orange so now i'm right

[Anonymous No.6526894]

>>6526890
as you can see from the concept art >>6526870 they really fucking wanted to put in a screen. the n64 shit didnt work like this. this is clear as day dreamcast inspiration and saturn inspiration by proxy

[Anonymous No.6526896]

>>6526890
>no screen
It's literally the same damn concept. It even has two slots in the exact same spot and the Microphone for online voice chat hooks into it the same exact way. Not to mention these ideas were originally planned for the Saturn 3D Controller as can be seen in it's patents that were filed before the N64 came out.

[Anonymous No.6526906]

>>6526893
he comin

[Anonymous No.6526907]

>>6526894
>>6526896
who cares? these aren't mainstaying innovations whilst my entire point was that the dualshock already came with innovations here to this day where the other 5th gen controller's "innovations" were failed, temporary experiments

[Anonymous No.6526910]

>>6526906
this is the most garishly un-dualshock like example yet

[Anonymous No.6526913]

>>6526907
The Analog triggers on the Saturn controller definitely stuck around seeing as it's that design that's currently being used on the current Xbox and Playstation controllers. Same with the Analog Stick and D-pad placement seeing as it's the same layout as the Xbox, Gamecube, and Switch controllers.

[Anonymous No.6526917]

>>6526910
wakey wakey

[Anonymous No.6526920]

>>6526913
it didn't even have a second analog stick (UNLIKE THE DUALSHOCK, STRANGE THAT) which all those listed controllers have. it's like saying the dualshock was directly inspired by the nes controller because the d-pad and buttons are sort of on the same level. the connection is so obviously forced and any direct inspiration microsoft took from them to begin with have been slowly chiseled away with successive controllers while the dualshock has stayed largely the same cause it never had to change

[Anonymous No.6526921]

>>6526917
this is the most garishly un-dualshock like example yet

[Anonymous No.6526927]

>>6526907
>temporary experiments
OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH..... NOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.6526928]

>>6526920
>it didn't even have a second analog stick
Sure, but the placement is still the same as what's on the Xbox. The Analog Stick is in the upper left and inline with the face buttons, with the D-Pad beneath it. If there was a 2nd Analog stick, it would be in the same spot as on the Xbox controller. Hence saying the Xbox Controller is the Dreamcast Controller with more face buttons and a 2nd Analog stick.
> it's like saying the dualshock was directly inspired by the nes controller
Now that would be incorrect. It's directly inspired by the SNES controller.

[Anonymous No.6526932]

>>6526927
i never said those were good ideas. in fact i just now criticized the ds4 cause its thoroughly worse than its predecessors. also lel the real pertinent examples there are from the n64 and dreamcast. funny, that

[Anonymous No.6526936]

>>6526932
>also lel the real pertinent examples there are from the n64 and dreamcast. funny, that
You can thank the Saturn 3D Controller for the analog triggers.

[Anonymous No.6526939]

>>6526936
and you can thank the dualshock for the much more important right analog stick. that thing that is pretty much essential for most 3d games. unlike the very situational, almost useless analog triggers

[Anonymous No.6526940]

>>6526932

[Anonymous No.6526947]

>>6526939
> unlike the very situational, almost useless analog triggers
I think Racing Games, Flight games, First Person Shooters, etc. all appreciate having those.

[Anonymous No.6526954]

>>6526939
i dont think i use my 2nd analog stick at all

[Anonymous No.6526956]

>>6520267
People like it because it has real games and not only Mario-tier games for fags

[Anonymous No.6526957]

>>6526939
Also if we want to go for innovation with Dual Analog sticks, what about the dual Mission Stick? That set up was available before Sony's Flight Stick for the PS1, and there's actually quite a few games that support it, including Panzer Dragoon.

[Anonymous No.6526961]

>>6526957
Sega's mission stick also used an extremely innovative analog sensor that wouldn't be prone to degradation.

[Anonymous No.6526962]

>>6526947
>Racing Games
most racing games still use face buttons for gas/break. more realistic, sim-like racing games that use analog triggers have mostly been on playstation consoles. funny, that
>Flight games
obscure, non-innovation driving genre
>First Person Shooters
what? how are analog triggers even helpful here?
>>6526954
because the controller you worship doesn't have one

[Anonymous No.6526963]

>>6526957
why are you sega saturn fanboys so insufferable? i cant believe you guys cope by shilling shit like nights rather than just emulating a psx or even a n64

[Anonymous No.6526967]

>>6526957
so some failed saturn games supported a horrifying dildo flight stick. who the fuck cares?

[Anonymous No.6526978]

>>6526956
n64 had some really good games but they're more enjoyable played with a dualshock

or just any other controller, to be fair

[Anonymous No.6526980]

>>6526978
Nah, try to play Sin and Punishment with a dualshock and cry at the shitty deadzones of the analog.

[Anonymous No.6526982]

>>6526956
>real games
>console famous for its FMV heavy games
Also, good job having Nintendo rent free living in your head, as Sonybros do.

[Anonymous No.6526984]

>>6526962
>most racing games still use face buttons for gas/break. more realistic, sim-like racing games that use analog triggers have mostly been on playstation consoles. funny, that
Most racing games on the Saturn that came out after the 3D Controller all have options for analog gas/break, as do just about all of them on Dreamcast and Xbox. Also one of the biggest complaints you can look up for Racers on the PS2 and later Wii U/Switch is the lack of proper analog triggers. Playing Gran Turismo 3 or 4 on a Dualshock 2 is a truly awful experience.
>obscure, non-innovation driving genre
Cope more.
>what? how are analog triggers even helpful here?
They feel more like a gun trigger and some games use them to control the rate of fire.
>>6526963
Why are Sony and N64 fanboys so insecure over a failed console?
>>6526967
>so some failed saturn games supported a horrifying dildo flight stick. who the fuck cares?
If it was so horrifying why did Sony copy it?

[Anonymous No.6526985]

>>6526980
any decent emulator lets you set deadzones yourself. 360 controller has atrocious deadzones by default

[Anonymous No.6526991]

>>6526984
>c-cope more!!!!!
it's the literal truth. your sudden insistence about is all the more proof as to how obscure and irrelevant it all is. nobody is talking about flight sticks and it doesn't matter if sony copied them. unlike you, i'm not just mindlessly worshipping a brand for the brand's sake

[Anonymous No.6526992]

>>6526939
Also while we're at it, we may as well point out the XE-1AP for the Sega Genesis.

[Anonymous No.6526995]

>>6526992
neat but i can't imagine why anything new about this would work well with genesis games

[Anonymous No.6526998]

>>6526991
> unlike you, i'm not just mindlessly worshipping a brand for the brand's sake
Yes you are, you're blindly ignoring innovations added to controllers from anyone but Sony. Sure having 2 Analog sticks is nice, but so is having Analog Triggers. And Sega's placement of the stick that Microsoft and Nintendo later adopted was far more comfortable than Sony's.
>>6526995
It was made for games like After Burner and Space Harrier.

[Anonymous No.6527008]

>>6526998
>you're blindly ignoring innovations added to controllers from anyone but Sony
nope. just been saying that the dualshock came pre-packaged with features that other controller designs eventually ended up adopting. i'm saying it was innovative because it was and still is
>Sure having 2 Analog sticks is nice, but so is having Analog Triggers
their usefulness isn't even comparable
>And Sega's placement of the stick that Microsoft and Nintendo later adopted was far more comfortable than Sony's.
you ever tried playing something like a platformer with the xbox's horrible, asymmetrical d-pad? very non-retro compatible preference you got there

[Anonymous No.6527015]

>>6526992
My brain can only barely parse how you'd even hold that thing.

[Anonymous No.6527027]

>>6520267
The shovelware games are actually good. I'd rather play a good third party game than a mediocre first party game.

[Anonymous No.6527030]

>>6527008
>nope. just been saying that the dualshock came pre-packaged with features that other controller designs eventually ended up adopting. i'm saying it was innovative because it was and still is
Again, the same can be said about Saturn and Dreamcast controllers.
>their usefulness isn't even comparable
Then why are they still being included in modern controllers and why did Sony abandon their shitty pressure sensitive trigger buttons for them? For the games that benefit from them they're very useful.
>you ever tried playing something like a platformer with the xbox's horrible, asymmetrical d-pad? very non-retro compatible preference you got there
It seems to work fine for me, just as the 3D Saturn controllers D-Pad is fine and comfortable to use. Just reposition your hand.

[Anonymous No.6527032]

>>6527027
shovelware is an adjective of quality. if its shovelware its by definition not good (see: kusoge) it doesnt just mean third party

[Anonymous No.6527040]

>>6526845
it's amazing how weebs come up with these mental gymnastics to deflect SoJ fucking things up

[Anonymous No.6527043]

>>6527040
SoJ may have dropped the ball with the Saturn's overall design, but they were at least able to pick up the pieces and make it a success in their region. Sega of America instead just threw a hissy fit and gave up leading to 2 and half years of no sales which set the Dreamcast up for failure.

[Anonymous No.6527045]

>>6527032
And yet, they were still fun to play. The fact that a game like fucking Pepsiman is still talked about shows what I mean.

[Anonymous No.6527046]

>>6527030
>For the games that benefit from them they're very useful.
and the right analog stick that comes with the dualshock 1 is much, much more useful in many, many more games. even games not made at all for the dualshock
>Just reposition your hand.
so you've sperged on and on about how innovative the saturn was for putting the analog stick on the same level as the face buttons but don't even care for the symmetry yourself. it was provably such a non innovative or relevant design choice that even you don't care

[Anonymous No.6527047]

>>6527032
1500 series is literally shovelware and there's some good shit in there.

[Anonymous No.6527053]

>>6527045
shovelware as we know it wasn't really a thing in the ps1 era. even shitty games were somewhat inventive because 5th gen was so wild west as far as acceptable game design went. this homogenous copypasting off trends you see in modern shovelware wasn't really a thing yet since there wasn't even a precedent to boringly copy off yet

[Anonymous No.6527054]

>>6527043
History there more or less repeated with Sony's handling of the Vita. Did pretty okay in Japan, absolutely destroyed in western markets by SCEA being mad that it didn't instantly outsell the 3DS with Call of Duty.

[Anonymous No.6527058]

>>6527045
>and yet they were still fun to play
no you dont understand. if they are fun to play then you are saying they are not shovelware. fun and shovelware do not coexist dude. i dont thin you realize what bottom of the barrel games shovelware is supposed to describe

[Anonymous No.6527060]

>>6527053
I just love the entirety of 5th gen because the departure from 2D to 3D means they were throwing anything at the wall to see what stuck. By the 6th gen you saw that strive for experimentation wear off a bit.

[Anonymous No.6527065]

>Rayman 1-2, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy 7-9, Dragon Quest 7, Gran Tourismo, Abe's Oddworld, ReVolt, Xenogears, Persona 1-2, Spyro, Chrono Cross, Soul Reaver, Parappa the Rapper, Silent Hill, Street Fighter Alpha, Tekken 3, Dino Crisis, Tony Hawk, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, Castlevania, Driver, Vagrant Story, etc....
Because it good good games.

[Anonymous No.6527069]

>>6527058
>fun and shovelware do not coexist dude
Shovelware is shovelware. The term does not denote the quality of a game. You can still play a shovelware game that might be seen as bad by most, but still find it fun for you.

[Anonymous No.6527073]

>>6527069
listen man stop harassing me

[Anonymous No.6527075]

>>6527046
>and the right analog stick that comes with the dualshock 1 is much, much more useful in many, many more games. even games not made at all for the dualshock
The right analog stick is mostly used as a camera reposition stick. It's used far less than the left stick or the face buttons. The only genre where it gets used heavily is First Person Shooters.
>so you've sperged on and on about how innovative the saturn was for putting the analog stick on the same level as the face buttons but don't even care for the symmetry yourself. it was provably such a non innovative or relevant design choice that even you don't care
The Analog Stick is in a much more comfortable spot though. So games that use it more are going to be more comfortable to play. That means 3D games benefit from it much more, which is why it's more comfortable with the Xbox, Gamecube, and Switch controllers. Most 3D games you're not going to be using the D-Pad much outside of menu navigation. You are going to be using the Analog stick a lot more for movement though. So the layout is optimized for this and makes it more comfortable to use for an extended period of time. The same cannot be said about the Dualshock layout.

[Anonymous No.6527110]

>>6527075
>The only genre where it gets used heavily is First Person Shooters.
or, yknow, every game with a camera. i.e. like every 3d game ever. do you play shit outside of the saturn?
>The Analog Stick is in a much more comfortable spot though muh comfort muh comfort muh comfort
just reposition your hand bro. i can't believe you're even comparing the like half-inch distance between the dualshock d-pad and left stick to the much more egregious spacing on the xbox controllers. if comfort is so fucking important to you then maybe the controller more actually suited for symmetrical play in retro titles would be more important to you. are you perhaps grasping at straws?

[Anonymous No.6527116]

>>6527065
>Rayman 2
>Soul Reaver
>Street Fighter Alpha
anon, you're not really playing the ps1 versions of these games, right?

[Anonymous No.6527118]

>>6527110
i just use a n64 controller for retro titles. it works for everything1-5th

[Anonymous No.6527137]

fuck the nintendo 64, ps1 has metal gear and crash bandicoot literally the best games from 5th gen, fuck mario fuck zelda

[Anonymous No.6527153]

>>6527110
>or, yknow, every game with a camera. i.e. like every 3d game ever. do you play shit outside of the saturn?
How often do you actually need to mess with the camera outside of 3D Platformers? Even then most of those have buttons that will realign the camera for you.
>just reposition your hand bro. i can't believe you're even comparing the like half-inch distance between the dualshock d-pad and left stick to the much more egregious spacing on the xbox controllers. if comfort is so fucking important to you then maybe the controller more actually suited for symmetrical play in retro titles would be more important to you. are you perhaps grasping at straws?
But if I'm going to play a 2D Retro Game I may as well just use the 2D Saturn controller then. Secondly if you have to use the triggers more often while using the analog sticks, which that's a rather uncomfortable stretch for your hands on the dualshock. The Saturn/Dreamcast/Gamecube/Xbox/Switch layout is much more comfortable. And the analog triggers and their position under the controller makes them more comfortable to reach when you realign your hand to use the D-Pad.

There's a reason why every other controller out there mirrors the Saturn3D/Dreamcast Stick and D-pad layout, it's more comfortable.

[Anonymous No.6527181]

>>6527137
Fuck metal gear, crash, mario and zelda.

The master race is playing Shinobi X and Dark Saviour.

[Anonymous No.6527704]

>>6527027
this, so much this, shovel ware are not the best ones, but some of them are REALLY interesting.

[Anonymous No.6527718]

>>6527137
MGS is alright but crash is a mediocre mario knockoff

[Anonymous No.6527815]

>>6527137
Based

[Anonymous No.6527840]

>>6520345

z buffer killed the n64s fillrate, and the most technically impressive games like indy and world driver championship turned it off in their custom microcode anyway for higher framerates and resolutions. so much for that advantage.

[Anonymous No.6527846]

Saturn versions of games are usually better

[Anonymous No.6528020]

>>6527153
>How often do you actually need to mess with the camera outside of 3D Platformers? Even then most of those have buttons that will realign the camera for you.
you literally just mentioned yourself another very popular genre a right stick is explicitly useful for and now you've gone and mentioned a complete other genre like that's the only one. i don't even have to argue anything
>But if I'm going to play a 2D Retro Game I may as well just use the 2D Saturn controller then
or you could use the dualshock which does both well at once but whatever
>if you have to use the triggers more often while using the analog sticks
you talk about how useless the right stick is (lmao) and yet you apparently constantly have your fingers on the not-very-useful back triggers for no reason like some kind of gaming crackhead. still i don't really know what you're talking about anyway. my hands never strained using the sticks and triggers, even as a kid.
>The Saturn/Dreamcast/Gamecube/Xbox/Switch layout is much more comfortable.
that's just like your very shitty, overly generalized opinion, man. the only one there that compares to the dualshock as far as general, non-finger straining comfort goes is the gamecube controller and i'm not even sure why you roped that one in here. definitely wasn't inspired by the saturn controller
>There's a reason why every other controller out there mirrors the Saturn3D/Dreamcast Stick and D-pad layout
because they happened to choose the xbox's design over the dualshock's. it's definitely not more comfortable for retro games. the xbox's d-pads especially are notoriously bad even disregarding their placement

[Anonymous No.6528023]

>>6520345
i think games like spyro use some kind of software trick to simulate z-buffer cause i never noticed polygons popping through in those games. so it's only even an advantage for n64 when the developer doesn't know how to work around it

[Anonymous No.6528572]

>>6527846
Yeah, outside of a hand-numbered cases, Saturn usually got the better versions of games, even 3D ones (for example, Tomb Raider actually looks better on Saturn)

[Anonymous No.6528631]

>>6520267
Massive abundance of good games.

[Anonymous No.6528683]

>>6528572
>Tomb Raider actually looks better on Saturn
But has much worse performance than PSX.

[Anonymous No.6528684]

>>6528631
>Massive abundance of good games.
This, minus the "good" part.

[Anonymous No.6528685]

>>6528684
I can't imagine being upset at a console from decades ago but I hope you get therapy or meds or something and find peace somehow anon

[Anonymous No.6528691]

>>6528685
You just described /vr/ console warriors as a whole, doesn't just describes PS1 criticism.

[Anonymous No.6528692]

>>6528691
Well, yeah, but I was replying to one specific guy because that's how posting works.

[Anonymous No.6529349]

What has better games. Saturn or Dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6529358]

>>6529349
Saturn, but I do like the Dreamcasts library. Saturn just has a larger selection and usually better games in the same genres. Although I like Soul Calibur more than Saturn's 3D fighters.

[Anonymous No.6529652]

>>6529358
i thought dreamcast got better arcade stuff

[Anonymous No.6529672]

>>6529652
>youtube told me something
Both consoles only had inferior arcade ports.

[Anonymous No.6529678]

>>6529672
>youtube
huh?
>inferior
huh? to what?

[Anonymous No.6529683]

>>6529678
>i don't even know what youtube is, i promise!
>muh console port isn't inferior to the arcade original

[Anonymous No.6529685]

>>6529683
uh, can i help you?

[Anonymous No.6529692]

>>6529685
>i've been on 4chan since 2005. I live for this shit. Encounter me. My feelings aren't hurt.
Go back cringeboy

[Anonymous No.6529695]

>>6529692
Haha I'm not even posting in this thread and you're accusing someone of being me. This is going to be fun.

[Anonymous No.6529697]

>>6529695
>Haha I'm cringe and I promise I'm not in this thread. This is going to be fun.

[Anonymous No.6529698]

>>6529695

[Anonymous No.6529702]

>>6529692
>>6529695
>>6529697
>>6529698
what

[Anonymous No.6529704]

>>6529698
Oh look another gay ass s*yjack for the md5 filter.

>>6529697
You can play this game as much as you like but there are no winners here anon. Only losers.

[Anonymous No.6529905]

I wonder why no one calls it psx anymore, at least on retro board. PS1 was that small remade psx and it was relased few years after original was relased. (If I recall corectly)

[Anonymous No.6529909]

>>6529905
"PSone"

[Anonymous No.6529910]

>>6529905
it was originally called PSX before they changed it to PS.
then they released the PSone model.
I think PS1 is the odd one out, although some publications called it that even before the PSone and the PS2.
there's also the actual PSX which is a PS2 model.

[Anonymous No.6530051]

>>6529905
That was the PSone.
I guess PSX spreads confusion with the development name of the PS1 and the (japan only) DVR/PS2 combo.
Everyone knows you're referring to the big old models when you use the term PS1.

[Anonymous No.6530395]

>>6528572
>Tomb Raider actually looks better on Saturn
Fucking cope and I say that as a Segafag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutzIK3DqZE

[Anonymous No.6530436]

>>6529905
back in 5th gen we just called it the playstation. nowadays you have to colloquially refer to it as ps1 so nobody gets it confused with the other four consoles called playstation

[Anonymous No.6530442]

>>6520267
>Inferior 3D than the N64 and PC.
if you like everything smeared with vaseline
nice bait btw

[Anonymous No.6530502]

>>6530442
vaseline or not, good framerate or not, the PS1 can't pull off something like this at all

[Anonymous No.6530534]

>>6520267
It because nintendo and sega fucked up relations with their third party support. Go read why ff7 never went to a nintendo platform for almost 20 years.

[Anonymous No.6530536]

>>6520345
Designing the game engine around a lack of z-buffering is possible (e.g. doom and quake). Designing it around a lack of subpixel precision or actual 3d-correct texturing is harder

[Anonymous No.6530537]

>>6530502
i don't know about you but that inconsistent framerate kinda sucks the impressiveness out of the spectacle. how is this in the n64's favor when it can't even actually render the scene properly? so many n64 games suffer from this and so little ps1 games do

[Anonymous No.6530539]

>>6530502
From the looks of it, the n64 can't pull it off either. That's unplayable. I'll take clean 3D grounded in pixel art techniques than games which run at superfx speeds and have visual styles which were done far better on dreamcast and newer consoles.

[Anonymous No.6530540]

>>6530502
also like any ff8 summon is more visually impressive than this, not to mention smoother

[Anonymous No.6530550]

>>6530537
>so many n64 games suffer from this and so little ps1 games do
Because you lack an understanding of 3D rendering. It doesn't require much processing power to render your typical PS1 game - which is usually something like two fighters in front of a 2D backdrop.

>>6530539
>That's unplayable
Mentally ill hyperbole.

>>6530540
>also like any ff8 summon is more visually impressive than this
The only thing those summons have going for them is a high polygon count on the models. There's no dynamic lighting, and they are all drawn in front of what are basically 2D skyboxes.

>not to mention smoother
Nope, the summons actually have a very low framerate, it's just a little harder to tell because the action isn't being controlled by the player. Pretty sure the battles in FF8 are capped at 15/20 FPS anyway, so any framedrops in those summons (and there are plenty) brings the rate down to ~10 FPS which is lower than Conker's 20 FPSish framerate.

[Anonymous No.6530557]

>>6525926
The ps1's graphics hardware is entirely 2D. It's completely unaware of depth, and lacks many features that the n64 had.

[Anonymous No.6530581]

>>6530550
kek so i don't understand 3d rendering because i made the truthful statement that ps1 games are often much smoother than n64 games? including collectathons like cbfd? nobody cares about your strawman version of ps1 graphics

[Anonymous No.6530587]

>>6530557
and as such the ps1 was much easier for developers to work with

[Anonymous No.6530591]

>>6530557
Don't bother, most of these Sonyroaches think that rendering simplistic "3D" scenes (or even just fucking sprite based games!) at mildly higher framerates is some kind of proof of technical superiority.

Let's put it this way. With a CD drive and a microcode that is designed to produce shit-tier PS1 style 3D, there is not a single PS1 game that wouldn't run 100% perfectly on the N64 (if not much much better).

But the other way around wouldn't work at all.

[Anonymous No.6530597]

>>6530591
the n64 is technically more advanced, but the ps1 is still a smoother experience the vast majority of the time so who cares?

[Anonymous No.6530598]

>>6529349
Dreamcast hands down.

[Anonymous No.6530606]

>>6530597
>the n64 is technically more advanced, but the ps1 is still a smoother experience the vast majority of the time so who cares?
Horses for courses my friend. If you wanted to do a proper immersive 3D experience you made an N64 game (because this was technically difficult, yes there were usually some framerate drops, but the game just wouldn't run properly on PS1 perhaps at any framerate).

If you didn't need to use the superior 3D hardware of the N64, then you made a PS1 game just because of the cheaper discs. Less technically ambitious games were usually easier to get their framerates under control. It's really as simple as that.

[Anonymous No.6530615]

>>6530606
~muh immersive experience~ is subjective and i dont know about you but there is nothing more immersion-breaking then constant frame drops so your gay opinion is moot anyway

[Anonymous No.6530629]

>>6529349
Need you even ask?

[Anonymous No.6530646]

>>6530587
That's not really why it was easier to develop for. N64 had other problems, and Ps1's graphics shortcomings caused their own issues as well if you were going for high quality.

[Anonymous No.6530681]

Sonyfag cope.

[Anonymous No.6530751]

>>6530550
>Because you lack an understanding of 3D rendering.
Funny that you say that when your typical playstation game had to waste a lot of polygons to subdivide the terrain and avoid the warping problem.
So playstation games not only are more stable performance wise but also have to push more polygons.

[Anonymous No.6530768]

>>6530436
even worse for Xbox. All of them are called Xbox colloquially so you have to say "original Xbox" to specify the one that's actually just Xbox.

[Anonymous No.6530821]

>>6530751
>had to waste a lot of polygons
If they had to "waste" a lot of polygons, that meant the 3D budget was lower elsewhere where it counted.

Polygon count isn't the be-all end-all. Smart 3D renderers (like the Dreamcast) don't waste their time drawing triangles which can't be seen. It's no consolidation prize to say "durrr my console can draw more polygons" when those extra triangles are worthless.

[Anonymous No.6530860]

>>6530821
what I tried to say is that even wasting polygons playstation games can hold a candle to n64 "superior" hardware and shit and with better framerates.

[Anonymous No.6530883]

>>6530860
nah bro what matters is being able to watch a cinematic slideshow over something smooth and responsive. all those extra polygons could be going to dynamic lights and other bullshit that doesn't make the gameplay any better

[Anonymous No.6530886]

>>6530768
and even even worse for xbox is that there's literally a newer xbox called the xbox 1 so you can't even use it to refer to the actual first xbox. it's a fucking mess

[Anonymous No.6531034]

>>6520267
It had good games, and the start up is one of the best for any console.

[Anonymous No.6531072]

>>6530681
Final Fantasy and Mega Man left for the superior console. Seethe.

>>6530502
N64 couldn't even put cutscenes for Spider-Man

[Anonymous No.6531156]

>>6531072
>Final Fantasy
Nothing of value was lost.
>Mega Man
N64 got a Megaman game, though.

>muh FMVs
Games are for playing, not watching, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.6531181]

>>6531156
>N64 got a Megaman game
worst version of a great game

[Anonymous No.6531207]

>>6530598
>>6530629
nah wrong

[Anonymous No.6531216]

>>6530860
You said it pretty clearly, but he's blatantly dancing around that and trying not to acknowledge that even the PS1 spending polygons mitigating texture warping managed to look more detailed than N64 games which did not have this concession to make. The N64 clearly did not have the polygon crunching power the PS1 did, that or maybe some other features like z-buffer and texture filtering were too intensive and wasted too many system resources.

[Anonymous No.6531228]

>>6531216
what are you even talking about? i have not played a single game that looked better on psx than n64

[Anonymous No.6531232]

>>6531228
You should play more PS1 instead of talking about it so much

[Anonymous No.6531252]

>>6531181
Eh, Mega Man 64 was a lazy port but at least Mega Man still has his legs.

[Anonymous No.6531258]

>>6531072
>Mega Man left for the superior console
Yeah, the Saturn. The only good Mega Man games on 5th gen (8 and X4) are better on Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6531269]

>>6531252
>spasticity vs astigmatism: the game
MM legends encompasses the 5th gen perfectly.

[Anonymous No.6531584]

>>6530646
yeah the n64 was a convoluted bottle necked piece of shit that nintendo fined you tens of thousands of dollars if you tried tweaking it the way you wanted to and was slower than advertised. The PS1 on the other hand was much more streamlined and had great developer support and libraries.

[Anonymous No.6531585]

>>6531232
i do. listen man the psx is a fine console but in terms of games on it LOOKING good? come on man

[Anonymous No.6531613]

>>6531584
And then sony fucked it up with PS2 and PS3 for devs heh.

[Anonymous No.6531619]

>>6531613
nah ps2 was based, ps3 was botched by novidya

[Anonymous No.6531635]

>>6531613
ps2 was so hard for devs to work with that it still has the most games of any console
>>6531619
ps3 was just a better 360 by 2009. you missed out on its boring exclusive but at least it wouldn't red ring on you in a year

[Anonymous No.6531637]

>>6531585
?

[Anonymous No.6531740]

>>6531637
I dunno.every psx game thats on both psx and n64 looks like a grungy mess in comparison to n64

[Anonymous No.6531973]

>>6531619
>>6531635

the ps2 is still one of the most insane console designs to work on that i've heard of. It's not bad per se, but convoluted as hell. It makes the n64 look pedestrian in comparison, although it didn't have the same kind of bottlenecks that limited the n64.

At least sony provided libraries to work with the VUs, which helped developers immensely, but those routines weren't specialized per game, so very few games got anywhere near to using it's full potential.

If you wanted to code VU assembly by hand, Sony recommended using excel to work out the timing by hand, they didn't provide any tools aside from an assembler.

[Anonymous No.6532286]

>>6531216
>the PS1 spending polygons mitigating texture warping managed to look more detailed than N64 games which did not have this concession to make. The N64 clearly did not have the polygon crunching power the PS1 did
Actually the PS1 has a fairly similar "visible" polygon count to the N64, if not actually somewhat lower. A good example is Rayman 2. Because the PS1 version has to tessellate so many polygons on the landscapes (which are still cut-down in detail from the N64 version) in order to prevent insane texture warping, they had to cut polygons from the character models to compensate (see pic). And Rayman 2 wasn't a bad port. Unlike MM64 which is a straight-port of the PS1 engine to N64 (even the fucking tessellation is still there despite not being needed!), Rayman 2 on PS1 had its own dedicated engine created just for the console.

And don't give me that "but what about those high-poly FF8 summon models". That's just called frontloading the polygon budget into one part of the picture, with bare backgrounds. N64 has its own equivalent with Neon Genesis Evangelion which also has high-poly character models (perhaps even more polygons than any of the FF8 summons) and the bare backgrounds.

What PS1 often has the advantage in is higher resolution textures, but not always. Later N64 games like Conker surpass PS1 there.

>z-buffer and texture filtering were too intensive and wasted too many system resources
Texture filtering is basically "free" on N64. Well, to be specific, bilinear filtering is completely free. Trilinear filtering is not free, but it works out to be free in practice. Because the N64 can trilinear faster than it can z-buffer, with z-buffer enabled (which was almost always) the console can do trilinear in the time it takes for memory to respond to the z-buffer stuff.

[Anonymous No.6532302]

>>6531973
>It makes the n64 look pedestrian in comparison
It has been stated by developers who worked on both N64 microcode and PS2 VU code that the former was much harder than the latter. Part of that is due to the tools that Sony provided, as you said.

>although it didn't have the same kind of bottlenecks that limited the n64
PS2 was bottlenecked differently than N64, it's probably best to describe it as "feature bottlenecked".

While the console had a lot of brute force power, the design made it nearly impossible to do certain things that should have been taken for granted. The VRAM is in practice too small to draw full 640x480 buffers, which is why most PS2 games render in interlaced 512x448 (lower resolution = more jaggies or blur). The implementation of mipmaps on the GS is basically broken (which is why distant textures tend to shimmer so violently on PS2), and the edge anti-aliasing feature which would have otherwise combated the jaggies from the lower resolution is virtually worthless since it requires full back->front sorting to work (no really).

Then of course there's the matter of that all "shader effects" have to be acomplished through manually set out multi-pass tricks instead of any actual GPU feature.

It was also commonly complained that the PS2's CPU was a little underpowered for the time, with too small cache, and the RAM is RDRAM like the N64, with high latency that isn't particularly CPU friendly. At least the PS2 doesn't have any bus contention issues like the N64 does.

[Anonymous No.6532319]

>>6520267
very affordable, easily modded and with an infinite library of games.

[Anonymous No.6532332]

>>6532302
>The VRAM is in practice too small to draw full 640x480 buffers
not true. many games do just that.
pic related is a screenshot taken from real hardware.
the ps2 has 4mb of vram and you can use it as you see fit, that's plenty to draw front and back buffer and z-buffer. 640x480 at 16bit each is 1.8mb aprox. total. so you have almost 2.2mb to fill with textures and if that's not enough the ps2 can also cache textures on system ram so you can upload new textures lightning fast.

[Anonymous No.6532339]

>>6532332
>at 16bit
Well, yeah that's one of the problems you see - taking down color depth to the level of a 5th gen console. While the jaggies are reduced from the higher resolution, you've then got banding on top of texture shimmering.

Lowering color depth is one of the ways certain PS2 games enabled a progressive scan mode.

>you can upload new textures lightning fast
Only as fast as main RAM, not as fast as VRAM. And the GS can't DMA main RAM. It has to go through the CPU.

[Anonymous No.6532341]

>>6532339
>And the GS can't DMA main RAM. It has to go through the CPU.
Well I'm going to correct this because it's a little bit misleading. The EE does have some dedicated DMA units that work independently of the MIPS core.

[Anonymous No.6532346]

Also just to add, the PS2 works best with triple buffering given the raw pixel fill of GS.

And a 16-bit z-buffer is pretty lousy in terms of accuracy. That's worse than the N64 which uses an 18-bit z-buffer.

Dreamcast uses the fucking equivalent of a 32-bit z-buffer.

[Anonymous No.6532347]

>>6532339
>taking down color depth to the level of a 5th gen console
just like the competition?
I believe the xbox is the only one that didn't had the majority of its library using 16bit color.

[Anonymous No.6532363]

>>6532339
>Only as fast as main RAM, not as fast as VRAM.
the ps2 was made with texture streaming in mind (that's why it has a measly 4mb of vram).
so lightning fast is lightning fast.

[Anonymous No.6532370]

>>6532347
>I believe the xbox is the only one that didn't had the majority of its library using 16bit color.
GameCube is 24-bit color normally, and 18-bit color whenever destination alpha is needed.

Dreamcast outputs to a 16-bit color framebuffer but all blending/destination alpha operations are completed at full 32-bit precision so it looks way, way better than 16-bit color normally does (arguably much better than the GameCube's 18-bit color mode).

[Anonymous No.6532371]

>>6532363
>so lightning fast is lightning fast.
A transfer between a slower pool of RAM (main RAM) and a faster pool of RAM (VRAM) will be always be at the speed of the slower RAM.

[Anonymous No.6532473]

>>6532370
>GameCube is 24-bit color normally
how does that even work? the cube only has 2mb for framebuffer and zbuffer. it doesn't fit.

>>6532371
fast enough to not matter.

[Anonymous No.6532490]

>>6532473
>how does that even work? the cube only has 2mb for framebuffer and zbuffer. it doesn't fit.
The GameCube has a system whereby it starts copying out buffers from eDRAM to main RAM once they are completed to make room for new buffers.

[Anonymous No.6532495]

>>6532473
>fast enough to not matter.
It does put a pretty hard speed limit on auxiliary textures though. Xbox has double the main memory bandwidth, yet at least it supports 6:1 texture compression, as does GameCube.

[Anonymous No.6532594]

>>6520267
I literally made my parents buy this so I could play Tomb Raiders, Quake 2, tekken 3 and Colin McRee Rally, beacuse PS1 was cheaper then PC back in the day

[Anonymous No.6532987]

>>6520267
I could talk about the variety of games, controller etc. but in terms of commercial success it was down to slick marketing. Up until that point consoles were a kid's toy. Sony convinced people that consoles were part of a cool adult lifestyle and cd technology helped with that. There was a sleek design to the ps1 that made it look like a piece of audio equipment rather than a toy.

[Anonymous No.6532997]

>>6532987
Sega did that before them. They were very smart to realize that it was the key to their success and copy them. Sony actually did a focus group with some teenage boys and none of them would admit to owning a Super Nintendo. They knew they were onto something then.

[Anonymous No.6533001]

>>6532997
>Sega did that before them.
not really. genesis was moreso marketed as the cool kid's console. i don't think sonic was pulling in many adults

[Anonymous No.6533004]

>>6520267
YARRRRRRRRRR

[Anonymous No.6533005]

>>6532987
>Up until that point consoles were a kid's toy
They still are to this day.
>Sony convinced people that consoles were part of a cool adult lifestyle and cd technology helped with that.
Sony was neither the first company to make kids believe they were grown ups for playing games, nor the first console who used CD technology.
>There was a sleek design to the ps1 that made it look like a piece of audio equipment rather than a toy.
The audiophile meme started in the 00s. PS1 still has a very friendly and kiddy design with buttons that are easily recognizable symbols like triangle or circle instead of letters.
I agree that Sony tried to copy Sega of America's "edgy mature" thing, but that's just the marketing.
All consoles had "mature" games and kiddy games. PS1 has in fact more actual kid's games like pic related. N64 and Saturn have less games, but at the same time they spare themselves from having actual kid shovelware like the PS1 has.

[Anonymous No.6533006]

>>6533001
There was a lot more going on than Sonic. From the design of the console itself, I mean look at the North American SNES with it's boxy shape and that faggy shade of purple. That's a huge part of why I told my dad I wanted a Genesis instead of a Super Nintendo. Then there's the kinds of titles they distributed. Heavy focus on sports titles. Mortal Kombat with blood. Night Trap shitty as it is started the panic over video game violence and is a big part of the reason they implemented a ratings system. Meanwhile Nintendo was demanding censorship. All the adults I encountered as a kid that played video games had a Sega. I even got a couple of them to give me games they didn't want. That's how I got Road Rash and the Beavis and Butthead game.

[Anonymous No.6533009]

>>6533001
>i don't think sonic was pulling in many adults
Neither was Crash.

[Anonymous No.6533010]

>>6533006
so you're saying you wanted a genesis as a kid because it made you feel cool compared to owning a snes? yeah, exactly. what does this have to do with roping in adults?

[Anonymous No.6533016]

>>6533010
Do you think adults wanted to buy something that looked like a child's toy? I knew exactly zero that did. Everyone I knew that had a SNES was another kid.

[Anonymous No.6533020]

>>6533009
ok? good thing the ps1 had plenty of other games for adults. whereas sonic 1 was meant to be the in-house system seller for sega

[Anonymous No.6533023]

>>6533006
>That's a huge part of why I told my dad I wanted a Genesis instead of a Super Nintendo
Really? I'm glad I never was like that, I would have missed on a lot of good games. I was an idort though, so I enjoyed both MD and SNES back then, best era of video games IMO.
I feel a lot of the things you mention are more historical than actually memorable. MK without blood ended when MKII came out and it had blood on SNES.
>All the adults I encountered as a kid that played video games had a Sega
Most adults back then played boring sim games on PC, but I remember my friend's older brother loved the SNES, he was 18 and we were like 8, but when I lended them my SNES, they loved it and ended up selling their MD to buy a SNES of their own.
I think there's a difference to be made between marketing, and the actual experience people had with the systems. In practice, both consoles had good games that could appeal to adults or older people. And if you wanted actual "mature" (porn) games, they were only on PC.

[Anonymous No.6533026]

>>6533016
i'm not saying that adults wanted the snes. i'm saying roping in adults wasn't sega's main marketing strategy. if they had their finger on the button in that regard then they would've taken their own advice and the saturn wouldn't have sold like ass

[Anonymous No.6533037]

>>6533020
I dunno, Crash was heavily shilled by Sony as their mascot.
I'm skeptical about your post though, I can't believe people are actually using the "Mature Gamer" argument unironically.
Shit works when you're 10 and you want to be a grown up, but when you're an actual grown up you don't give a shit about "mature" games or the ideology behind it, you enjoy good games independently of their art direction.

[Anonymous No.6533042]

>>6533005
>this random shovelwear is representative of the whole console
ps1 technically had more kiddy games because it was dominating the market and as such had much better developer support. whereas on n64 the only adult game you got was re2 and that was seriously about it

[Anonymous No.6533045]

>>6533023
My dad wasn't going to buy me both. If he was I would have owned both. I didn't hate the SNES it was more of a preference. No regrets in hindsight. I own both and I focus more on the SNES as an adult because of the games I missed. But I own a Super Famicom instead of the American SNES because I like the look a hell of a lot better. My cousin was spoiled as fuck and had both systems with a ton of carts. He also had Sega Channel which is mostly what I would play when I went to his house. The only SNES cart he had that I really cared about was Megaman X2. I was a bit jealous of that one.

[Anonymous No.6533050]

>>6533037
yeah no shit. we're talking about market strategies that worked on normies in the 90s, not necessarily what's right or wrong. and if it's an ultimately bad marketing strategy, why all the insistence that sega did it first like they need the credit?

[Anonymous No.6533052]

>>6533050
They did do it first though. I don't care if they get credit or not. They haven't sold a console in years so it doesn't matter anymore.

[Anonymous No.6533053]

>>6533042
>whereas on n64 the only adult game you got was re2 and that was seriously about it
I also mentioned the Saturn, stop thinking 5th gen is just n64 vs ps.
There's others M Rated games on N64 too, google it. But anyway I don't even consider "M Rated" to be actually "for adults". When I was 10 I cared more about M rated games than I do now. It's just a way to make kids feel empowered.

[Anonymous No.6533060]

>>6533050
You claimed that Sony started it though:
>Up until that point consoles were a kid's toy. Sony convinced people that consoles were part of a cool adult lifestyle and cd technology helped with that.
Sega already did it first. And in fact, if you google TV ads for the fucking Game Boy you will also find ads aimed at adults too.

[Anonymous No.6533063]

>>6533053
>saturn
>mature games
uhhh, there's virtual cop i guess? everything else i can think of was shit that was already on ps1 anyway.

[Anonymous No.6533071]

>>6533060
that's not me, and yeah, they had different strategies. if sega was really the brilliant purveyor of this adult marketing, why couldn't they make it work for the saturn when it worked so well for the ps1?

[Anonymous No.6533073]

>>6533063
Saturn had actual 18+ games in Japan.
And we know that the people consuming these were horny teenagers, anyway.

[Anonymous No.6533076]

>>6533073
>muh weebshit
yeah that's completely irrelevant to all these 5th gen western adults who apparently loved the saturn so much (lol)

[Anonymous No.6533078]

>>6533071
Rushed to the market, poor library of games, reputation with retailers and consumers tarnished by 32x. All kinds of stupid shit on their part.

[Anonymous No.6533081]

>>6533071
>why couldn't they make it work for the saturn when it worked so well for the ps1?
Want to know? Because Sega isn't a multinational multi-heading corporation that had millions of dollars to burn on marketing alone, plus they owned the CD factories that pressed the CDs.
Sega, on the other hand, was just a video game company who had to take risks in order to release a system.

[Anonymous No.6533082]

>>6533076
Most actual adults probably didn't even bother with actual "M rated" games anyway. Sports and racing titles aren't M-rated.
The kind of people who engaged with stuff like gory games were kids. I fucking absolutely loved Mortal Kombat when I was 10, nowadays I think it's goody as shit but back then I thought it was badass.

[Anonymous No.6533086]

>>6532286
>. A good example is Rayman 2
That's a bad example.
>don't post examples which prove me wrong
you're kind of a huge faggot fanboy.

[Anonymous No.6533091]

>>6533078
this is just from what i've seen but the actual saturn marketing in the west at least seemed significantly kiddier than the genesis'. lots of focus on colors and shit like nights into dreams etc
>>6533081
so sega is so awesome and inventive for apparently coming up with this adult marketing but then suddenly become incapable of marketing because competition exists? nigger please. the nes in 3rd gen was just as if not more dominant than the ps1 and sega still pulled through then. they just fucked up with the saturn. plain and simple

[Anonymous No.6533094]

>>6533082
ok. and those adults could play the better, more expansive, much better marketed sports and racing games on ps1 instead of the saturn or n64 they were given no incentive to buy

[Anonymous No.6533105]

>>6533091
>and sega still pulled through then
You're actually pitching NES vs MD? The MD came out in 1988 (1989 in USA, and 1990 in PAL regions), the SNES was just around the corner. And in japan, it wasn't even a competitor due to the PC Engine.
>they just fucked up with the saturn. plain and simple
It's more complicated than that. Yes, Sega was fucked when Sony entered the game. Unlike a rival like Nintendo (another video game company), Sony was an actual corporation monster who could (and did) use a LOT of money on marketing and had no issues tanking hardware sales loss.
Sony and eventually Microsoft entering the game were mean to replace both Sega and nintendo. It's sort of a miracle that Nintendo is still around making hardware.

[Anonymous No.6533110]

>>6533094
You just sound like a PS fanboy, there's nothing better or more expansive on PS games.
Better marketed? Yeah I'll give you that one. Sony's marketing team was good, but they better be, with the amount of budget they had at disposal.

[Anonymous No.6533117]

>>6533110
>You just sound like a PS fanboy, there's nothing better or more expansive on PS games.
nope. just stating facts. ps1 had a MUUUCH more expansive library then the saturn and you'd acknowledge that if you weren't such a saturn fanboy

[Anonymous No.6533126]

>>6533105
>had no issues tanking hardware sales loss.
you mean that thing that wasn't an issue for them at all then because they knew how to market their console properly and had the library to back it up? acting like the only difference between the ps1 and saturn was that sony was the bigger business is pure delusion

[Anonymous No.6533139]

>>6533126
>you mean that thing that wasn't an issue for them at all then because they knew how to market their console properly and had the library to back it up?
It's a symbiotic circle. Market your console, get it in as many households as possible, then the install base alone will attract developers. But it wasn't just that, Sony were smart with the PS1 because they were very flexible with devs and cheap too. Their intent with the PS1 wasn't to make profit, but to install the PS brand in the market, and they sure did.
>acting like the only difference between the ps1 and saturn was that sony was the bigger business is pure delusion
I never said that was the only difference. But if we're talking about marketing, then yeah Sony had much more money at their disposal compared to Sega to burn on ads.

[Anonymous No.6533142]

>>6533117
Oh, "expansive" as in quantity, ok.
But what makes you think they're "Better", though?

[Anonymous No.6533148]

>>6533142
what makes you think saturn games are better? do you think most people skipped out on it for a ps1 because they're dumb and ignorant and that's it? i have the entire market behind me. you just have your insignificant opinion

[Anonymous No.6533306]

Let's be real there is no 10/10 or above 7/10 PS1 game.

[Anonymous No.6533508]

>>6533306
saturnfags are incapable of fathoming what a 7/10 game even looks like

[Anonymous No.6533914]

>>6533005
this "ps1 has a teletubbies game" argument appears in every ps1 thread and I don't get it. starting to think it's one guy. yeah the ps1 had more baby games/shovelware than the other consoles, because it had literally four times the amount of games. it had more of EVERYTHING.

however it's not like this made the n64 exempt or anything:
> but at the same time they spare themselves from having actual kid shovelware like the PS1 has.
who the fuck told you that and why do you believe it? it still had baby games/shovelware like elmo, tigger, power rangers, even some exclusive crap like rugrats and tom and jerry

[Anonymous No.6533936]

>>6533914
I think "Teletubbies on PS1" is less of an argument and more like simply a reminder that PS1 wasn't all mature games, just as N64 isn't all FPS or racing, or how Saturn isn't just arcade ports.
All 3 systems had embarrassing shit, but PS1 more so.
Also from the games you listed, only Elmo is comparable to the teletubbies shovelware.

[Anonymous No.6533951]

>>6533936
who cares? for every teletubbies game there's a thousand better games not made for toddlers. this just seems like mental gymnastics to try to turn ps1's library into a negative from fanboys of objectively much kiddier consoles

[Anonymous No.6533957]

>>6533951
>thousands better games
lol
>kiddier consoles
All consoles are kiddy anon, sorry, you aren't a cool mature man like the playstation ads made you believe.

[Anonymous No.6533962]

>>6533957
so why is muh teletubbies shovelware even a negative if it doesn't matter and they're all kiddy anyway? this is just more mental gymnastics

[Anonymous No.6533967]

>>6533962
The conversation was about companies and their marketing attempts at making people believe they were "cooler" and "more adult". Some anon said Sony was the first to do it and he got corrected, then the convo continued.

[Anonymous No.6533971]

>>6533936
no it wasn't all mature games, but it definitely had more of them, because it had more of everything. including baby games. your options for horror on saturn or n64 were pathetically limited, for instance.

therefore, the PS1 WAS the system for certain mature games. it was also the sytem for baby games. one doesn't preclude the other, y'know?

[Anonymous No.6533973]

>>6533967
i said a true statement about ps1's marketing and then mental gymnast saturnfags pretended reality was wrong because one teletubbies game that sold 2 copies existed for it (its existence at all being a testament to ps1's dominance)

[Anonymous No.6533975]

>>6533971
Then the discussion about whether PS1 is more "mature" than N64 or Saturn is pointless.
Yes, PS1 has more quantity than the other 2, that's not what the debate is about.

[Anonymous No.6533980]

>>6533973
>true statement
Let's see:
>>6532987
>Up until that point consoles were a kid's toy. Sony convinced people that consoles were part of a cool adult lifestyle and cd technology helped with that.
You're aware you're wrong on both of your claims here, right? Actually you're also wrong about consoles being kid's toys "up until that point", they still are.

[Anonymous No.6533989]

>>6533980
why do you even think that's me? you know two people can say a true thing, especially when its so readily apparent. sony most definitely tried and succeeded in marketing the ps1 to adults in a way the n64 and saturn failed.

[Anonymous No.6533992]

>>6533975
...what? ps1 had mature games that the n64 and saturn didn't. can you read? do you think just going MUH TELETUBBIES is some kind of trump card?

[Anonymous No.6534000]

>>6533989
Sony just marketed the playstation up the ass. To adults, to kids, to retards. It isn't a specifically "adult" system and if you believe it is you fell for it.
>>6533992
You're just discussing quantity. The PS has more quantity in everything, mature games, kiddy games, shitty games.

[Anonymous No.6534020]

>>6534000
yeah i "fell for" all the mature games released for ps1 and not the other platforms. god damn it why do i keep falling for objective reality? why can't i live in saturncuck bozo land like you?

[Anonymous No.6534037]

>>6534020
you're soooo mature anon.
zombies!! waaagh!!

[Anonymous No.6534043]

>>6521526
I played suikoden 2 from all the memes on here. After 17 hours i decided it was fucking garbage.

[Anonymous No.6534056]

>>6534043
Well it is a jarpig, what'd you expect

[Anonymous No.6534059]

>>6534037
really it doesn't matter how superficial you think it is. the ps1 by all measure was a more "mature" console

[Anonymous No.6534062]

>>6534059
haah, ok anon, it was more mature, sure.

[Anonymous No.6534069]

>>6533975
there's nothing to fall for. they marketed their system as more mature because it had more mature options than competitors; 100% true.

does that mean the system itself was specifically for adults? no. it means they were more successful in attracting adults to their system, enabled by the quantity and variety of options.

[Anonymous No.6535040]

>>6532302
I've also heard that the n64's dsp is more difficult than the ps2's, but I never got the impression that it required nearly as much work just to get a polygon on-screen as the ps2.

[Anonymous No.6535048]

>>6528023
I was watching devs do a letsplay of it. They were talking about how there was a map that kept track of every single polygon or something. That might've been to fight the texture jittering, though.

[Anonymous No.6535061]

ITT: Snoyflakes seething.

[Anonymous No.6535065]

>>6535040
The actual command chain is easier on N64 yes.

[Anonymous No.6535073]

I am genuinely baffled by people still trying to stoke console war fires for the Saturn and PS1.

[Anonymous No.6535078]

>>6535048
ooo, link?

[Anonymous No.6535081]

>>6535061
this whole thread's existence is based on the inverse

[Anonymous No.6535086]

>>6520442
I literally wonder why this is the case. I don't really think of massive sprites looking back on the game, it didn't make much use crazy warpy 2D Saturn effects from what I recall, and the geometry was trivial by PS standards.

I think the real answer is the effort wouldn't have been worth it to them.

[Anonymous No.6535087]

>>6535081
>continues to seethe

[Anonymous No.6535092]

>>6535087
i had the best console of 5th gen. what is there to be mad about?

[Anonymous No.6535098]

>>6535092
The fact that you grew up and were confronted with the fact that you have zero taste.

[Anonymous No.6535109]

>>6520771
Wew. The autistic contrarianism on display here.

Einhander isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than it has any right to be considering the jarpig pedigree, and worth anyone's time.
>Gaiden dumbed down
Dumbed down for fucking who? The series has never attracted casual players, or made an attempt to, at any point. It wasn't even released outside of Japan. It's only dumbed down if you really cheese the power meter customization, lives, and continues and it's still pretty tough.
>Delta bad
No fucking comment.

[Anonymous No.6535121]

>>6535078
I can't find the exact video but it's been mentioned at least twice across some vids of the devs playing the games on youtube. One might've been in a Ratchet and Clank vid.

[Anonymous No.6535129]

>>6535098
taste these nuts saturncuck

[Anonymous No.6535132]

>>6535129
lol what's a Saturn? sounds like you are about to beat your cat.

[Anonymous No.6535397]

>>6520267
>shovelware
NOT all shovelware is bad.