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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6502012 No.6502012 [Reply] [Original]

what is the verdict on the mister? i'm on the fence to get one and it seems as good as analog's consoles for cheaper and with more systems.

>> No.6502078

inb4
>JUST EMULATE ON A PC
>WHO IS THIS FOR?
>OVERPRICED RASPBERRY PI FOR SUCKERS! unlike me ;) ;) :)
>software emulation vs hardware based emulation arguments
It's good and it provides extremely good value if you want to tinker with stuff like amiga and other old computers. Can easily output digital video up to 1440p and spit out analog video using a cheap adapter at the same time. It's a very flexable device and I love mine.

>> No.6502080

>>6502012
Gee MiSTer, I don't think it's worth it to pay for a glorified emulation box when I could just emulate on my PC instead.

>> No.6502095

you stacked up 3 raspberry pis impressive

>> No.6502104

>>6502078
>MiSTer bot detected
Gotcha.

>> No.6502145

>>6502012
call me back when accurate psx, saturn or n64 cores or even psp came up, on the meantime, i will use my gaming pc with retroarch cores and pump up the resolution to 16x ;')
is not worth it, mister is just for old garbage that have decent emulation or accurate replica on pc already, not worth anyone time!

>> No.6502163

>>6502145
>not worth anyone time!
Many such cases!

>> No.6502324

>>6502012
How is the X68000 core? That's close to putting me over the edge.

>> No.6502328

>>6502324
It's one of the cores that has been near non-functional for a while. I''m pretty sure it's in the middle of a total rewrite.

>> No.6502361

>>6502012
The verdict is that any time there's a thread about it every 12yo on the internet turns into an expert on FPGAs and emulation

>> No.6502371

>>6502361
>FPGA
Faggot Pedophilia Gay Activation?

>> No.6502581 [DELETED] 

>>6502012
I'm 12 and what is this

>> No.6502659

>>6502012
inaccurate

>> No.6502737

>>6502328
Bummer. Guess I'll keep waiting, then.

>> No.6502758

yet another entirely organic discussion about a useless piece of junk that costs 6x more than a pi and performs no better

inb4 lag lies

>> No.6503053

>>6502371
every time you post that joke it just keeps getting funnier!

>> No.6503226

>>6502758
>actually being this paranoid thinking that someone would go to the effort to write a bot that shills for a fpga development board and being factually wrong
Take your meds please

>> No.6503249

>>6502078
kys mr retard

>> No.6503254

>>6502012
It's damn good. You're at the mercy of the core makers, but most are really really good. They are stupidly easy to update.

Very low latency with wired usb controllers, like a single frame, I'm a lag whiner and this is the best lag wise I've ever used barring an original console on a crt.

>> No.6503260

>>6502145
Only zoomers care about those systems. This is a retro board retard.

>>6502758
>yet another entirely organic discussion about a useless piece of junk that costs 6x more than a pi and performs no better
Pi is fucking garbage you neandrathal faggot.

>> No.6503265

listen guys, the MisTER foundation and Altera-Intel were furious at me for not being able to convince the nigh-infinite market potential of neckbeards on /vr/ in the last thread. They aren't gonna pay me unless I can elevate you savages out of the dark ages, because their quarterly profits DEPEND on this.

but seriously, FPGAs >= software emulation, and there literally isn't an argument against this

>> No.6503270

>>6503265
>FPGAs >= software emulation, and there literally isn't an argument against this
Warning, you're risking the wrath of the run-ahead faggots

>> No.6503275

>>6503270
whats wrong with runahead?

>> No.6503287

>>6503270
ha, run-ahead is not true to original system design. "input lag" is the (positive) time difference between an inaccurate hardware implementation or software emulation and the original hardware spec. run-ahead is just a negative number. in other words, run-ahead is the same thing as input lag, but with opposite sign. you need that difference to be zero to be accurate

>> No.6503295

>>6503287
Luckily, accuracy was never my goal. Why would I want to be confined by the limitations of old hardware?

>> No.6503321

>>6503295
that's fine. but accuracy is some peoples goal. it's important for lots of reason; preservation and reproduction; the original software was designed around the original hardware; guaranteeing hacks and new software are compatible with original hardware; simplicity of implementation (as opposed to writing software-specific fixes); curiosity.

that being said, personally I think it would be cool to fix what might be a hardware bug in the SNES audio hardware that potentially discards 1/4 of all sound data.

tangentially related, some old hardware might be too complicated and different from modern to emulate properly at a playable rate. Saturn and N64 have/had a rough road, and the gen after still hadn't really become homogeneous yet. coming back to FPGAs that's really not a problem

>> No.6503356

>>6503321
Saturn emulation on mednafen and N64 emulation on parallels is excellent.

>> No.6503363

>>6503356
i'll have to check mednafen out again, it was still wonky last i used it. haven't heard of parallels, so need to check that out too. i haven't looked at the N64 scene in a while because i mostly just play the original hardware when friends are around

>> No.6503914

>>6503265
I was fired because I couldn't do it in my first attempt. They prefer using their PC's to emulate. DAMN YOU PC MASTER RACE!!!

>> No.6504258

>>6502012
Is this thing an expensive pi hat or something?

>> No.6504261

>>6503260
And so are fpgas you little faggot.

>> No.6504263

>>6504258
Yes

>> No.6504268

>>6503321
Accuracy is the goal? So why is the mister so fucked if its supposedly the exact same thing as your console internally on a chip logic level?

>> No.6504285

>>6504258
>>6504263
No. This has nothing to do with a Pi and works completely differently. The only similarity is it is a development board.

>> No.6504302

>>6504285
Ok, so how is it different/better than software emulation on a personal computer?

>> No.6504347

>>6504302
It's not.

>> No.6504350

Meme tier

>> No.6504375

>>6504302
On a PC or single board computer emulators are software programs created in programming languages like C++. They will either attempt low level emulation which attempts to replicate every minute way the real console’s components would interact, or high level emulation which only attempts to approximate the way the console as a whole works. Low level emulation is far more accurate but needs a much more powerful CPU to be fully accurate.

MISTer integrates the DE10 Nano development board, the most important part of which is the Altera Cyclone V field programmable gate array. FPGAs do not run any software and do not require an external CPU to perform any calculations. FPGAs are programmed in hardware description languages such as Verilog to utilise logic gates to accurately mimic the way data flows in a real circuit board (indeed FPGAs are mostly used in the electronics industry for prototyping circuit boards before mass production). A well programmed FPGA can theoretically identically replicate an entire console’s components on a low level in a way that software cannot. This requires a highly skilled developer and lots of reverse engineering of the original hardware.

>> No.6504391

>>6504375
>A well programmed FPGA can theoretically identically replicate an entire console’s components on a low level in a way that software cannot. This requires a highly skilled developer and lots of reverse engineering of the original hardware.
And do we have any of this currently? Or even in the foreseeable future for any piece of old console hardware?

>> No.6504397

>>6504375
Software can always do what hardware does with a faster core processor and a few more lines of code. That quirk in the original hardware is easily coded in, the only real advantage an FPGA has would be lower power consumption due to needing less horsepower. A 1:1 output of the original can be reproduced through many means FPGAs arent the only way and as it stands right now it seems a lot of the software emulators are more accurate at this point. This is just a meme box toy for electrical engineers

>> No.6504402

>>6504391
Kevtris’ Nintendo cores (available in the commercially released Analogue consoles) and furrtek’s Neo Geo core for MISTer are incredibly accurate, all of which involved a significant amount of reverse engineering and development hours.

>> No.6504406

>>6504402
And while I applaud the talent and effort that went into that, are they in any realistic way more accurate than software emulation as it currently stands?

>> No.6504414

>>6504397
While that's true, software emulators usually have another hurdle to contend with: the host operating system. There are lots of layers of services and abstraction layers that all input and output must go through, and that's where the latency comes from. It's theoretically possible to code your emulators to run on "bare metal" with direct low-level access to the hardware with no OS to get in the way, but no one does that because it's a massive amount of extra work.

>> No.6504445

>>6504406
I’d say Kevtris’ FPGA cores are on par with byuu’s work in software (bsnes/higan). Both are the pinnacle of accuracy in their respective medium, however both developers have a symbiotic relationship and have worked together (or at least pushed each other) to a certain extent in the quest for accurate emulation.

>>6504397
I think the other issue here is that you need a pretty expensive PC to get that degree of low level emulation accuracy. Not everyone is a PC gamer with a beefy computer on hand or willing to spend that kind of money purely for the most accurate emulation experience. The DE10 Nano in comparison is 150 bucks.

>> No.6504448

>>6504445
Bruh my pc is a decade old it's a second gen i7 and still runs bsnes like a dream

>> No.6504812

>>6504375
My PC can run Dreamcast games and I've had it since 2007.

>> No.6504857

>>6504268
lack of complete knowledge of console logic. emulators have the exact same limitation. eventually these chips will be fully reversed engineered, which will be a boon for both FPGA and emulator developers.

>> No.6504902

>>6504857
But dont we have the schematics to most retro consoles? I know the n64 just got leaked recently but dont we already know everything about NES and genesis? Especially the genesis since it's off the shelf parts

>> No.6504984

>>6504902
board schematics don't usually tell you what's inside large ICs where a lot of complexity is, like the GPU and maybe APU chips. Also, even if stock parts are used, sometimes things like commercial CPU cores get augmented with custom memory, math, and controller circuitry that's not publicly documented.

>> No.6505053

>>6502012
The wife loves it!

>> No.6505476

>>6505053
How does your wife's boyfriend feel about it, anon?

>> No.6506604

>>6505053
Stale meme. Let it rest.