/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6483406]

>he cares about canon
ISHYGDDT. Caring about video game canon or video game plots in general is the highest order of cringe. It’s on the level of someone who’s seen every Marvel movie.

[Anonymous No.6483418]

Narrative-driven games are for dykes and homos.

[Anonymous No.6483426]

>>6483418
one of the best games i've ever played is NetHack, and the entire story is "your god wants the McGuffin, go get it!"

[Anonymous No.6483673]

Nice cope Zelda faggot

[Anonymous No.6483695]

>>6483406

Stories are important because they inspire and engage the critical thinking aspect of the brain, and provide gratification and emotional fulfillment.
Caring about their canon helps people solidify the narrative for their own critical appraisal and take-away morals. Why you mad

[Anonymous No.6483724]

>liking anything LOL GUISE

[Anonymous No.6483727]

>>6483406
There is no Downfall timeline, just games that were dropped from the storyline after Ocarina of Time rebooted it.

[Anonymous No.6483745]

>>6483406
all zelda games are isolated.

[Anonymous No.6483747]

The definition of cringe is "thing I don't like"

[Anonymous No.6483978]

>>6483695
Caring about the story of a game as a way to enjoy it further and motivate you to keep playing is different from autistically charting and connecting things that don't matter. The OP's pic about the Zelda "timeline" is an example of the latter. Nintendo doesn't give a shit about it so why should fans? If they really enjoy trying to make sense of that stuff then fine, but it's basically the video game version of squaring the circle.
Of course OP's post is total bait since he said even caring about plot is "cringe" which is obviously bullshit. It only makes sense to take it to a certain point before it becomes silly and meaningless.

[Anonymous No.6483998]

>>6483978
>Nintendo doesn't give a shit about it so why should fans?
but they do, this is misconception
the first three games are chonological, and OoT was a prequel

[Anonymous No.6484063]

>>6483695
>playing video games for the story
Just read a book. Gameplay is king followed by graphics, and sfx/ost. Plot/story can go fuck itself.

[Anonymous No.6484114]

>>6484063
what a cop out
'read a book'
write a story that is compelling enough to play the fucking dopamine matrix

[Anonymous No.6484139]

>>6483727
>developer who is SO fucking bad at Zelda 1 he dies against octoroks and gives up
>takes over Zelda franchise
>"dude what if there was a timeline where Link couldn't beat the final boss, all the bad--- I mean OLD games that I didn't make go there"

[Anonymous No.6484151]

>>6483978
Different, but still applicable to OP's bait, just clinching it early.

>>6484063
Sfx/Ost literally thrive off plot-induced emotional swells you silly goose. I don't think there are many people who PLAY a game FOR the story - you play it for the multimodal experience. If you play it FOR Gameplay, then anything above Pong is redundant.

It's interesting to see gameplayfags disparage story when ideally they shouldn't be mutually exclusive.. sounds like someone's favourite game has a shit plot! Oopsieeeee

[Anonymous No.6484218]

The "timeline" fuckery only happened thanks to the whole Wind Waker/Twilight Princess bullshit. Up until then -

Ocarina of Time (Prequel to LttP; What "actually" happened during the imprisoning war talked about in LttP's prologue)

I

Majora's Mask (direct sequel to OoT)

I

Link to the Past (Prequel to the NES games; set in the Golden Era talked about in Zelda 2)

I

Zelda 1 (the original)

I

Zelda 2 (direct sequel to the original)

Link's Awakening and the Oracle games were assumed to happen together and probably after LttP, but no one really gave that much of a shit, because we were more concerned about playing good games.

It's honestly BECAUSE of the new games fucking with what little timeline there was that I consider any talk about Zelda timelines as not-retro and therefore not-/vr/ discussion material.

[Anonymous No.6484312]

>>6484063
Story is good, the problem is when it interrupts gameplay/interaction. At that point you may as well just be reading a book or watching a film instead.

[Anonymous No.6484370]

Wind Waker can't even happen

[Anonymous No.6484383]

>>6484370
Maybe Link just got lost in Termina and couldn't figure out how to climb back out the mystical portal that served as the link between dimensions and that's why he never came back and they had to flood everything

[Anonymous No.6484418]

>>6483695
You're right, but the canon of zelda was quickly thrown together to shut fans up.

[Anonymous No.6484451]

>>6484383
That IS what happens in the Twilight Princess version of events. Except the Seven Sages kick his ass and seal him in the Twilight Realm instead of doing jackshit.

[Anonymous No.6485091]

>>6483406
I care about story when it belongs in the game like the metal gear series or zero escape. the zelda timeline is just an attempt to appease fans who think every single detail of a universe needs to be explained despite the fact that this ruins the fun of speculation.

A good example with the metal gear series is MGS4 which IMO explained too much because kojima wanted to make sure the fanbase would stop bothering him.

[Anonymous No.6485102]

>>6484418
>You're right, but the canon of zelda was quickly thrown together to shut fans up.
You mean the canon that was established when Adventure of Link was created to be a sequel to the first and only other game?

What?

[Anonymous No.6485308]

>>6484370
Yes, it can. In your pic instead of the past being changed ending the timeline, it continues, split off from the changed past. You even see this in the game itself with the party at Lon Lon Ranch after Link was sent back.

[Anonymous No.6485842]

>>6484418
>>6485102

So (assuming you're OP), this thread is specifically about the Zelda timeline, and not story in games at all? hmmm

[Anonymous No.6485885]

>>6483695
>Stories are important because they inspire and engage the critical thinking aspect of the brain, and provide gratification and emotional fulfillment.
>Caring about their canon helps people solidify the narrative for their own critical appraisal and take-away morals. Why you mad

[Anonymous No.6485983]

>>6485091
>fans who think every single detail of a universe needs to be explained despite the fact that this ruins the fun of speculation.

I hate this mentality so much. It's ruined pop culture

[Anonymous No.6486036]

>>6485885
Last time I checked, alt-right chincel zoomers loved games that had no story and were just pure ADHD action like nuDoom?

[Anonymous No.6487624]

>>6485308
that's not how I saw it
>Link saves Hyrule and gets warped back
>citizens throw the party as the sages get to the mountain
>camera does this weird warp effect before fading to white
>closing footage is all in the child timeline
obviously it's different now but at the time I thought the warp effect was meant to symbolize the timeline changing and being erased from existence

[Anonymous No.6487640]

>>6487624
the timeline shouldn't have split but I imagine it happened to give leeway to making the games really varied

[Anonymous No.6487669]

>>6483406
It depends and I have an unusual idea about canon anyway. I'll address both.

It depends because some series don't have a strong enough overarching tie to the others to be worth worrying about. Like Zelda. If you put SS first or if you put OoT first or you say LttP happens after MM...it changes nothing. Every Zelda game is the exact same. Sure WW changes the open field to water and things like that but placing how that water got there and why is irrelevant. You're still Link, you're still going to save Zelda in some form, you're still fighting some variation of Ganon (and Ganondorf isn't different enough to matter to the game you're playing). They aren't deep and it doesn't matter when you attempt to force them to be. Other series it can be somewhat important but only if understanding how multiple games tie together changes meaning. I honestly can't think of an example.

My view of canon is it's up to you. Whatever brings you enjoyment. And toss what doesn't. I used to love Star Wars. I just ignored midichlorians and assume Rogue One is an alternate story but Kyle Katarn still stole the Death Star plans. I don't care what Disney or even Lucas says. It's irrelevant. My enjoyment is all that matters.

[Anonymous No.6488085]

>>6487624
Well, without elaboration it's easy to interpret it that way, but why wouldn't the timeline be erased as soon as Link was sent back? It would be right at that moment that time would be changed and thus erase the timeline. No party should be able to take place the very moment Link gets sent back, if that was the sort of time travel rule the scenario writers were going with. I remember some debates on Zelda Universe insisting the party doesn't actually take place after Link gets sent back, to account for this, but I think it's clear that it does due to the developers choosing to show it after Zelda sending Link back in time.

[Anonymous No.6488093]

>>6483418
you don't get it, arcade games are for crusty boomers and idiots, intellectuals sit back and deeply ponder the true origins of Tingle

[Anonymous No.6488169]

>>6488085
if Link is the central component in which time is shown to split into branching paths then either it should cease to exist without him observing the future or there is an infinite amount of timelines that haven't been shown all occurring in a present moment

[Anonymous No.6488184]

>>6483406
Wow, just realized I don't give a fuck about Zelda.

[Anonymous No.6488201]

>Last time I checked, alt-right chincel zoomers loved games that had no story and were just pure ADHD action like nuDoom?

[Anonymous No.6488594]

>>6485091
>A good example with the metal gear series is MGS4 which IMO explained too much because kojima wanted to make sure the fanbase would stop bothering him.
metal gear fans have really bizarre double standards.

nanomachines, super robots, cyborg ninjas, the supernatural and zombies are A-OK but body doubles, parasites, matrix-styled cutscenes and zombies aren't.

[Anonymous No.6488940]

>>6488201
are deeplore sperglords really any better than retarded action fanboys who get bored by a single word of text? each extreme is bad

[Anonymous No.6489280]

>>6483406
The only people explicitly talking shit about canon are shippers and "muh headcanon" people.

[Anonymous No.6489291]

>>6485885
Actually, I'm a chad I swear

[Anonymous No.6489292]

>>6486036
Like old Doom, you mean. For better or worse, nuDoom actually has a story and lore.

[Anonymous No.6490827]

>>6484114
Conan the barbarian is

[Anonymous No.6490841]

>>6484114
>I can’t appreciate a game for being a game, I need some by-the-numbers plotline to get me to play it
maybe shmuppies were right

[Anonymous No.6490964]

The Zelda timeline was a fun thing to think about and theorize until Nintendo made the mistake of unveiling the official timeline.

The stupid "Link Wins/Link Loses" split always reeked of nintendo actively trying to find the dumbest possible thing no one would have thought of, just to make absolutely sure there was no chance anyone ever guessed the right timeline.

The old Child Timeline/Adult Timeline is an actual time paradox involving time travel that would make alternate realities in a way that makes perfect sense, and more importantly it's even alluded to in the game in the end cutscene. The Link Loses timeline is literally a what if scenario based off nothing in the game itself that doesn't even involve time travel, and turns over 1/4 of the entire franchise into what is essentially a fucking hypothetical for the sole sake of Nintendo stroking their ego to the overarching plot of baby's first adventure game.

Ocarina of Time doesn't even have a bad ending for fuck sake. It's like the implication here is that turning adult in OoT and then getting the game over screen anywhere is valid as an ending to the game. Where's the "Turn adult and Die" Speedrun category? According to Nintendo it's a valid ending. It's fucking stupid. If OoT can split the timeline just from the lone implication that the player potentially getting a game over screen is canon than shouldn't every other game split the timeline from the player getting a game over? Again, the Link Loses split doesn't involve any sort of time travel or alternate dimension fuckery, it's purely a hypothetical. So where's the timeline that splits at the Minish Cap because you can get a game over in that game against Vaati? Is that going to be the next game after BotW2 Electric Boogaloo?

I don't even care about the timeline (I'm sure writing an essay over it makes that statement convincing), Nintendo's timeline is just fucking profoundly stupid.

[Anonymous No.6491043]

>>6483406
>Link dying leads to the best games on the franchise
What did Nintendo mean by this?

[Anonymous No.6491065]

>>6483406
Is the Wrong Warp glitch also another timeline?

[Anonymous No.6491292]

I NIGGY SHIGGY PIGGY WIGGY NIGGLY DIGGY DOGGY DOO

[Anonymous No.6491323]

>>6491043
Aonuma thought he could put all the games he doesn't like in a big bin labeled "Failure" (timeline). Then he threw some toon Link shit on it later.

[Anonymous No.6491347]

>>6483406
Canon is fine when it's a bit more straight forward. This Zelda time line is full retard though. Why does every game have to be connected? It doesn't make sense. Compared to something like say, Ys, when it's the same dude it's nice to know the order of events.

[Anonymous No.6491350]

How I see it.

Original universe
>A Link to the Past
>Link's Awakening
>A Link Between Worlds
>Legend of Zelda
>Zelda II: Adventure of Link

Rebooted universe
>Skyward Sword
>Ocarina of Time
Post-OoT child split
>Majora's Mask
>Twilight Princess
Post-OoT adult split
>Wind Waker
>Phantom Hourglass
>Spirit Tracks

Four Swords universe
>Minish Cap
>Four Swords
>Four Swords Adventure

Self-contained games (can't be reasonably placed anywhere)
>Oracle of Seasons/Ages
>Triforce Heroes
>Breath of the Wild

[Anonymous No.6491367]

>>6488940
There's a huge difference in appreciate a narrative rich game like Planescape Torment or Morrowind for it's lore vs hamfisting the most retarded theories possible into Nintendo action platformers and colectathons. It's mindblowing that people actually get into heated arguments about some imagined overarching grand narrative in fucking Mario and Zelda.

[Anonymous No.6491398]

>>6491292
I shiggy diggy

[Anonymous No.6491764]

>>6488085
>why wouldn't the timeline be erased as soon as Link was sent back?
the Master Sword is the defining part of how the adult timeline gets to the way it is, so once it becomes 100% clear Link won't pull it then the future doesn't happen. That doesn't mean that timeline would disappear immediately as he's sent back, only once things had been made right in the past

[Anonymous No.6491775]

>>6490964
There are potential events that happen after any death of Link in any game, it's just that no game that exists is set after them. That said, there wasn't much they could do with the inconsistencies brought forth from OoT being the Imprisoning War, then TWW occupying that Adult Timeline spot once they decided to retcon that connection. There just wasn't a good spot for the classic games, they shot themselves in the foot when they made TWW's story.

[Anonymous No.6491782]

>>6491764
From the perspective of those in the future, Link making things right in the past is something that would have already happened, which should paradoxically erase that timeline right away.

[Anonymous No.6491786]

>>6491775
>OoT being the Imprisoning War
It's not the Imprisoning War, at least not in the story it ultimately became. Nothing in OoT lines up with ALttP except the involvement of Sages to seal Ganon away.

[Anonymous No.6491801]

>>6491782
making the past right doesn't happen the exact moment he's sent back

[Anonymous No.6491820]

>>6491786
Post-release developer interviews said that it was. I'm aware of the inconsistencies, but the intention can't be denied.

[Anonymous No.6491824]

>>6491801
It does from the perspective of those in the future. There's no logical reason for there to be any delay when it's an event chronologically that is far before that point in time.

[Anonymous No.6491828]

>>6491820
Found my source.
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/kiootcomments.html
>This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda.
>n the SNES edition game, the story "Long ago, there was a war called the Imprisoning War" was passed along. A name in the Imprisoning War era is the name of a Town later. They were like "pseudo-secrets." We wanted to throw these out through the entirety of the game. That thing from then is now this.

[Anonymous No.6491832]

>>6491820
They can say a lot of things to get the fans riled up, because they think it's a good thing to spark lore debates.

OoT is by all means a total reboot, like Star Fox 64 and F-Zero X were. The idea of the Imprisoning War was adapted and changed completely for OoT, among with many other elements from the previous games.

[Anonymous No.6491835]

>>6491832
I'm just going by what was intended by their own words. According to them, OoT was not a reboot, links to the other games and adapts ALttP's backstory, and thus that was factually the canon timeline before The Wind Waker released.

[Anonymous No.6491845]

>>6491835
Even before Wind Waker, I could tell that they didn't line up.
>No Knights of Hyrule
>Ganondorf only gets a piece of the Triforce and not the whole thing like ALttP states
>Zoras are completely different creatures

[Anonymous No.6491858]

>>6491845
>No Knights of Hyrule
Dead, Hyrule is underwater
>Ganondorf only gets a piece of the Triforce and not the whole thing like ALttP states
Link and Zelda lost their pieces after death, they awakened in their new incarnations
>Zoras are completely different creatures
While it doesn't make sense for fish to became birds, they did because Ganondorf polluted to sea and they had to leave

[Anonymous No.6491872]

>>6491858
I'm not talking about OoT compared to Wind Waker, but OoT to ALttP.

>While it doesn't make sense for fish to became birds, they did because Ganondorf polluted to sea and they had to leave
I mean how the Zoras go from evil fire-spitting Black Lagoon dwellers to anime-sexy fishmen. The only games that tried to explain it were the Oracles with "evil ones are a river species", but no game has ever used that again and I suspect that was solely Capcom's invention to justify recycling the LA Zoras while keeping the OoT ones.

[Anonymous No.6491880]

>>6491845
I agree, they didn't. I think that's why games like Four Swords Adventures later would attempt to adapt the Imprisoning War (an assumption based on removed text from an earlier story draft and the overt amount of ALttP similarities). Miyamoto famously "upended the tea table" for that game's development which is probably why the story changed.

[Anonymous No.6491885]

>>6491880
I dunno... Four Swords feels like a different beast altogether, like Capcom wanted to make their own Zelda canon but didn't want to stray too far from Nintendo's proven elements.

[Anonymous No.6491920]

>>6491885
Four Swords Adventures wasn't Capcom.

[Anonymous No.6491937]

>>6491880
Hyrule Warriors is canon and is the Imprisoning War.

[Anonymous No.6492039]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2DMiZ1e574
Just gonna link this here and ask for this thread's opinion.

[Anonymous No.6492040]

I don't even give a shit about Zelda's canon and I think it's become a detriment to the games, but you're trying a little too hard I think.

[Anonymous No.6492041]

>>6492039
Just gonna not watch that and call you a faggot.

[Anonymous No.6492646]

>>6492039
>Game theorists
Okay nintendo is dumb for making this time line but these faggots are worse for caring

[Anonymous No.6492675]

>ISHYGDDT
This an ancient tongue now.

[Anonymous No.6492731]

>>6492675
come on fhqwhgads

[Anonymous No.6492735]

>>6492731
I see you jockin' me.

[Anonymous No.6492736]

>>6492735
Trying to play, like you know me.

[Anonymous No.6492785]

>>6492736
>PTKFGS

[Anonymous No.6492831]

>>6492675
doesn't feel like that long ago when we were still typing it out in full

[Anonymous No.6492838]

>>6484218
This simply isn’t true. Timeline discourse has been a thing since Ocarina of Time. Sorry you’re too young to remember.

[Anonymous No.6492847]

>>6491350
The Oracle games were developed as prequels to Link’s Awakening

Triforce Heroes has direct references to A Link Between Worlds and explicitly stars the same Link

Breath of the Wild has the most nods to the Downfall Timeline

Why don’t people pay attention to the games they play?

[Anonymous No.6492860]

>>6492847
Fuck off. These games are practically self contained with little indication that they're connected unless they're direct sequels, the only timeline that is actually obvious about it's sense of progression is the one that goes into the Wind Waker.

>Explicityl stars the same Link
Once again, fuck off, they used the Wind Waker Model and made no references to ALBW.

I swear you Zelda lorefags have your heads so far up your own ass it's amazing you can even see the games that you claim to know so much about.

[Anonymous No.6493072]

>>6492847
>The Oracle games were developed as prequels to Link’s Awakening
And in doing so created too many plot-holes, so Nintendo moved them to after Link's Awakening.

[Anonymous No.6493103]

>>6491350
for me it's
>all the non-Toon Zelda games except SS and BOTW
original universe
>Toon games
toon universe
>SS and BOTW
bad writing universe

[Anonymous No.6493930]

The GOAT zeldas worth beating (if you didn't when you first got them):
1
2
3
Oot
Phantom Hourglass
Skyward Sword

Runner ups (worth playing and owning):
4
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess

Try it maybe:
Wind Waker
Spirit Tracks
BotW (not really zelda but good nonetheless)
Oracles (if you like minish cap's level of story bloat and link's awakening gameplay here are 2 romhacks)

Garbage:
Minish cap
Four Swords
Skyward Sword

In terms of order of play:
3, 1, 4, Oot, MM, TP, PH, SS, 2

[Anonymous No.6493962]

>heh caring about things is so cringe, it's way better to be ironic about everything

[Anonymous No.6493983]

>>6493072
Created literally one plothole, which is that in Oracles Link hadn't met Zelda even though LA+Oracles Link is clearly ALttP Link.

[Anonymous No.6494026]

>>6493962
No one's saying BE IRONIC or insincere but there's a line and this zelda timeline bullshit takes caring about a simple fairy tale to a whole unhealthy level.

[Anonymous No.6494042]

>>6494026
No it doesn't. If anything, the people that seethe so much about games following a chronological order and ignore both what the games say and the developers say are the mentally unhealthy ones. I've never seen so much seethe and denial about a series having a timeline aside from Zelda.

[Anonymous No.6494049]

>>6493983
He also doesn't know what the Triforce is, which would be impossible if he was ALttP Link as he HELD THE WHOLE FUCKING THING in the end. And Oracle Link can't be the same one in LA because the last Nightmare is specifically using the forms of bosses from ALttP to fight Link.

Nintendo officially moved the Oracles to after LA. I prefer to believe that Oracles are completely self-contained and unconnected to any other games.

[Anonymous No.6495878]

You care about it OP

[Anonymous No.6496031]

>>6495878
based spam-bump