/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6480093]

Would /vr/ like Final Fantasy II more if it weren't such a bug-infested mess? Beyond it being programmed like shit, I think it's still a decent game.

[Anonymous No.6480106]

It's a matter of perspective. On the absolute scale it's an OK game and you can get enjoyment from it. but there are so many retro jRPGs that are better than it that on a relative scale, it's shit.

[Anonymous No.6480110]

just make the magic system less grindy and evasion less overpowered
if my soul is 99 a new white spell shouldn't start at level 1, it's just tedious
I also shouldn't be able to solo the game with one character with 10-99% evasion, maybe some bosses should have regular attacks that ignore evasion

[Anonymous No.6480115]

Remakes exists (psx, psp, wonderswan, GBA)

[Anonymous No.6480123]

>>6480115
Yes, but this is about the original product.

[Anonymous No.6480127]

>>6480093
>>6480110

there's a bunch of dudes fixing this game up that's supposed to address a lot of the original's issues that the remakes didn't without also dumbing down the game

[Anonymous No.6480152]

>>6480093
I played the ps1 remake and thought it was alright, definitely a step down from FF1 imo. The leveling system was retarded and is unnecessarily grindy if you don't abuse it, and cheese-worthy is you do.

[Anonymous No.6480172]

>>6480127
this one, right? https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/69/

[Anonymous No.6480173]

>>6480127

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=29704
I'm assuming you're talking about this. Even if they do fix all the cheese strats and the game "works as intended", the system itself is completely broken. I've been playing their latest version and even if you can get past all the grind, or use their passive growth on the "enhanced" version, the game's just far too easy to break.

Early game is the only hurdle, and once you hit your stride, there's no real challenge to be had. The only challenging thing about the entire game is how willing you are to grind, and after that everything becomes so much tedium and even the final boss becomes a joke. FF1 for the NES at least made it seem like curb-stomping the final boss was from sheer force of will grinding your party to level 50 and overwhelming him. In FF2, it's the system that's inherently weighed against him. Evasion's so grossly overpowered that all you have to do is Sap/Osmose him for a turn or two while Blinking your party, and he can't do shit to you while you whittle him down or buff up to steamroll him.

[Anonymous No.6480272]

>>6480173
was it really that broken though?

[Anonymous No.6480538]

>>6480272

It's an ambitious in concept but poorly executed combat system on the whole.

[Anonymous No.6480584]

In honesty, I think that the bugginess is over exaggerated. My only problems with FF2 are the shitty dungeons.

[Anonymous No.6480601]

>>6480093
I would like it more if it had a fucking standard leveling system.

The system that they put in its place ends up being more grindy if you play legit or just boring if you give in to temptation and exploit it.

[Anonymous No.6480612]

I've never once played a game and thought; 'this would be better if Kawazu had designed the mechanics'.

[Anonymous No.6480619]

pretty wild we have two threads seething about final fantasy 2 at the same time

[Anonymous No.6480653]

Not really
It's honestly not that great. There wasn't an FF "formula" yet so they tried many derivative things that were abandoned in future installments. It's still a gnarly game if you fixed the bugs.

[Anonymous No.6480661]

>>6480584
It really isn't. The guys behind Restored have this extensive list of shit they already fixed, not counting the long list of stuff they're still working on:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17Zwv-mxKAWxJi1eqk2BUdmlRNvLbYGRZ/view?usp=sharing

[Anonymous No.6480665]

>>6480584
It really isn't. The guys behind Restored have this long-ass list of shit they already fixed, and that's not including the list of bugs they're still working on:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NqpdQgQaZDmEkw8TRVlVTYoiy6xS8SiU/view?usp=sharing

[Anonymous No.6480713]

>>6480601
idk I liked the level system. In principle. It was immensely frustrating to play but I appreciated the concept of unused skills weakening without practice, and the characters organically differentiating into a particular class based on how they played.

Super frustrating at times when your skills level down, but an intriguing spin on the concept and an experiment worth trying out.

[Anonymous No.6480770]

>>6480713
>in principle
Yes!
Which isn't worth a shit if it's not fun in practice. They should have either refined it more or give up on it after realizing how much it sucks in practice.

[Anonymous No.6480862]

Korean grindfest before Korean grindfests existed.

[Anonymous No.6480876]

>>6480093
I already like Final Fantasy 2.

[Anonymous No.6480880]

>>6480665
That looks like they fucked with a bunch of shit that didnt need fucked with

[Anonymous No.6480921]

>>6480880
Like?

[Anonymous No.6480925]

>>6480880
everything in that list with the exception of the toad change was without question a bug if you read their thorough discussions of and explanations of what the devs intended to do, but coded improperly for whatever reason. whether you think a bug "need fucked with" doesn't make it not a bug.

[Anonymous No.6480960]

>>6480925
Toad change is the most egregious of all. And the very first bug on the list was really unnecessary it was a bug but it didnt affect anything since the weapon was still flagged as unusable in battle.

[Anonymous No.6480972]

>>6480960
Toad change is the only one that's debatable, out of like, 30 fixes. The first one was changed because of some implications it had that caused weapons that weren't supposed to have use effects casting bizarre skills under certain circumstances. Regardless, it neither hurts nor harms anything you or I would notice in normal cases, so...

What you meant to say then, I'm guessing, is "looks like they fixed a lot of shit, but I don't think they should have touched Toad".

[Anonymous No.6480976]

>>6480972
Well I dont think they should have fucked with mini either. Those statuses are barely a detriment now

[Anonymous No.6480983]

>>6480976
they are though

you can't land attacks because they always miss, you can't cast spells because your magic menu is blocked, and you can't even cure the status unless you equipped the specific item that cures those specific statuses before battle on the character who is affected (because consumables in combat in ff2 were retarded)

the only thing you have going for you even with those changes is if you happen to have one of your two item slots that can equip things be something that casts a spell, which are limited in their use in this game, you can use that instead of being basically stunned or asleep, but still able to input useless commands.

[Anonymous No.6480991]

>>6480976
No, as it was, unless you already were prepared ahead of time, you're still fucked. The difference now is that if you did happen to be prepared for a Toad/Mini, you might still have a chance, but might still be fucked. The item system isn't as flexible as you might think.

[Anonymous No.6481013]

>>6480983
>>6480991

those statuses sounds even more miserable than in any other entry in the series

[Anonymous No.6481242]

>>6480653
That said FF2 established a large amount of ideas (especially monsters, several weapons, themes, and tropes) that persist in the series to this day. FF1 was basically a D&D knockoff but FF2 is where the series properly started and had its own identity.

Bombs, Adamantoise, Malboro, Flans, Ultima, Blood Sword, Gigas, Behemoth, Dragoons, Healing Staff, Yoichi's Bow, these recurring things all debuted in FF2

[Anonymous No.6481382]

>>6480106
fpbp

[Anonymous No.6481416]

>>6481242
Fair
Also Chocobos...

[Anonymous No.6481427]

>>6481416
and iron giants

[Anonymous No.6481503]

>>6481427
Fun fact: According to that project's thread, Iron Giants will run away from your party. Kind of funny considering it's supposed to be a boss in its own right, albeit a rare encounter.

[Anonymous No.6482820]

>>6481242
You forgot Coeurl

[Anonymous No.6482845]

>>6482820
Coeurl didn't originate in Final Fantasy, they're from a sci-fi work back in like the 40s

[Anonymous No.6482857]

>>6482845
Shit, TIL

[Anonymous No.6482952]

>>6480093
I mean
the SaGa series exists

[Anonymous No.6482983]

>>6482952
Therein lies the rub, anon. Does /vr/ praise SaGa on the concept, besides the other things that /vr/ finds appealing, while similarly bashing FF2's concept? Or is it simply that both are equally praised and denounced for their execution of these concepts?

[Anonymous No.6483496]

>>6480653
It's fine, but it does require you to know the mechanics of the game. It does have plenty of faults but overall it's a 7/10, definitely better than most console RPGs of its time, for the time it had a decent story and it was very experimental with the mechanics. Shame it was a rush job, I think with some more work it could've been a classic.

[Anonymous No.6483497]

>>6482983
SaGa games are too open for their own good, they're a chore to play unless you just resign yourself to not being able to experience half of the content.

[Anonymous No.6483610]

I'd like to talk about her outfit

[Anonymous No.6483663]

>>6483496
what the holy fuck is going on with her legs?

[Anonymous No.6483669]

>>6483497
>unless you just resign yourself to not being able to experience half of the content
How is that a problem? People also seem to have no problems with newer Persona games' calendar system despite that also pretty much making it impossible to do everything in one playthrough (unless you're following a guide). This openness of SaGa games is exactly why I like them: because they're so damn replayable. The only critique I have is that this non-linearity makes the games sometimes feel pretty aimless, as if all you're doing is side-quests with no real overarching story/plot (yet some games, like SF2, had a pretty interesting plot, imo. Although that's probably one of the most linear SaGa games out there). I managed to deal with that by simply thinking that all I am doing is preparing for the final boss.

[Anonymous No.6483689]

>>6483669
I think it helps that Saga games tend to be shorter than persona but I do agree that it's a real shame that for some reason people feel they only ever want to play a game once.