/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6473175]

How do we uncuck Saturn emulation

[Anonymous No.6473178]

>>6473175
There are some systems you just can't emulate, it'd be easier to actually land on the moon. Saturn and DC are no-go's, forget about it, not gonna happen.

[Anonymous No.6473181]

>>6473175
It's getting better, you will be able to complete many games right now.

[Anonymous No.6473227]

>>6473175
Start by sending useful bug reports directly to the emulator developers instead of bitching about it here.

[Anonymous No.6473298]

>>6473178
dc is pretty good though. demul has 100 percent compatibility and redream is close behind

[Anonymous No.6473342]

Shut up! It works 100%! 100%!

(100% of the 3 games I know, but that's still 100%...)

[Anonymous No.6473363]

>>6473175
Beetle Saturn is pretty good.

[Anonymous No.6473403]

>>6473175
"How do we"

lo

[Anonymous No.6473414]

>>6473178
I'm sure for your malformed brain that's true.

[Anonymous No.6473440]

>>6473175
What am I looking at? I can't see anything in this shitty gif.
l2webm faggot

[ラジオちゃん !154PCPFtWc No.6473446]

>>6473178
Dreamcast emulation is better than Saturn at this point. Loads better.

[Anonymous No.6473451]

>>6473175
What actions are you personally taking to see this done?

[Anonymous No.6473461]

>>6473175
Learn to code, study the hardware documentation, create your own emulator?

[Anonymous No.6473538]

>>6473175
By having a mid-end processor and using beetle saturn/mednafen.

[Anonymous No.6473548]

>>6473538
Mednafen has some weird issues, it actually runs too fast.

[Anonymous No.6473551]

>>6473178
redream has been working just fine for me, even SSF is more reliable than people suggest
>>6473440
dragon force, an ogre battle clone

[Anonymous No.6473559]

[Anonymous No.6473563]

>>6473551
>ogre battle clone
You've never played Dragon Force or you've never played Ogre Battle.

[Anonymous No.6473567]

I love /vr/ threads like this. They alert me to all the posters here who have never once tried the RetroArch Saturn and/or Dreamcast cores. With all the FUD about RA that you guys swallow without a second thought, it's no wonder you think those consoles are impossible to emulate.

[Anonymous No.6473838]

>>6473538
>>6473559
Games?

[Anonymous No.6473839]

>>6473838
Albert Odyssey
Shining the Holy Ark

[Anonymous No.6473841]

>>6473548
Not really retard

[Anonymous No.6473851]

Saturn and Dreamcast are both great? What fucking year is this thread from?

[Anonymous No.6473868]

>>6473839
Thank you!

[Anonymous No.6474096]

>>6473175
SSF has been great for years, now it has built in cd emulation its usable again.

[Anonymous No.6474117]

>>6474096
It does? Which version? I've been using it to play Shining Force III for the past few months and I still had to use an external program.
What formats does it support?

[Anonymous No.6474125]

>>6474117
from memory i cant remember

https://twitter.com/fessx?lang=en

he seems to only post updates on his tweeter now

[Anonymous No.6474127]

>>6474125
Guess I'll just give it a try later then. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.6474131]

>>6474127
Or you could play the superior modern emulator and not some ancient black box piece of Japanse software with no documentation.

[Anonymous No.6474134]

>>6473567
kys emunigger

[Anonymous No.6474140]

>>6474131
Here's the thing, I started that run on Yabasanshiro, which had graphical issues and hanging audio a few hours into the game, then tried some others and ultimately SSF ended up working the best for it. Which is also where my saves are now. I sure as shit am not gonna deal with trying to convert saves again after that whole mess given that it works without any issues now.
Unless some other emu works without hassle now, and lets me up the internal resolution I see no reason to move on as long as SSF works.

[Anonymous No.6474143]

Mednafen's Saturn module is constantly being worked on and pretty much a large majority of games work.

[Anonymous No.6474160]

I haven't run into any issues using Mednafen or Beetle Saturn so far. Shit just works. People say input lag is high and it might be but hey, I'll take it.

[Anonymous No.6474179]

>>6473567
I have and it's straight up unplayable on my i5-3570. Standalone mednafen would be serviceable if not for the horrendous input-lag.

[Anonymous No.6474180]

Mednafen runs 2D saturn games perfectly pretty much. the 3d ones are the ones that lag and stuff, I think, no?

[Anonymous No.6474181]

>>6474180
I played X4 with mednafen and the input lag was unbearable. I had the same issue with Space Harrier.

[Anonymous No.6474215]

>>6473175
Beetle saturn runs near perfect
>>6473178
Redream is the best DC emulator right now

[Anonymous No.6474217]

>>6474160
maybe if you're running it on a POS

[Anonymous No.6474281]

>>6474181

I haven't tried X4, but I played guardian heroes just today and wasn't noticeable at all to me

[Anonymous No.6474284]

I have an AMD A10 -6790K APU with Radeon HD Graphics, 4Ghz, can I run saturn on mednafen?

[Anonymous No.6474308]

what seems to be the problem?

[Anonymous No.6474325]

>>6474284
try it, madnafen saturn is free

[Anonymous No.6474396]

>>6473841
It does, you must not know much about your favorite emulator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8YO0LUBwas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXUwCW8yTI

[Anonymous No.6474472]

>>6474396
>video of 1 game by a user with poorly configured hardware

Whoa retard, you really showed me.

[Anonymous No.6474482]

>>6474472
>>video of 1 game by a user with poorly configured hardware
He's a saturn dev, mednafen is pretty bad anon.

[Anonymous No.6474484]

>>6474482
Saturn has 1094 games. Surely there numerous examples if speed discrepancy is indeed the rule? The retarded "dev" you posted couldn't even capture his video properly.

[Anonymous No.6474497]

>>6474484
>Saturn has 1094 games
You can count? I'm impressed.
>Surely there numerous examples if speed discrepancy is indeed the rule
Surely there are
>The retarded "dev" you posted couldn't even capture his video properly
how?

[Anonymous No.6474521]

>>6474497
No need to get so passive aggressive sweety, I merely want to get to the bottom of actual accuracy of Beetle Saturn. If I fire up Sega Rally rn and compare its timer with my clock, will they be different after 1 minute or not?

[Anonymous No.6474553]

>>6474521
>will they be different after 1 minute or not?
Only one way to find out anon, you should be less evasive.

[Anonymous No.6474554]

buy a cheap saturn and modchip you uncircumsized philistine

[Anonymous No.6474563]

>>6474554
>cheap
>saturn
pick one

[Anonymous No.6474564]

>>6474553
Wait, you don't know? I thought you were an expert on Saturn emulation.
Well I just had to test that and... it didn't. Why would people on the internet talk about things they have absolutely no knowledge of?
So let me correct your post
>Mednafen has some weird issues, it actually runs too fast.
Is more of a "mednafen may run a tad too fast in 1 out of 1094 games if user haven't configured it properly". There, much more accurate.

[Anonymous No.6474598]

Just tried it. Beetle Saturn runs SFZ3 faster than shown in that first video that was allegedly recorded using real hardware. Just I dunno, report it to the dev? I'm sure it'll get fixed in time.

[Anonymous No.6474607]

>>6474396
This is the only game I've seen that runs too fast.

[Anonymous No.6474627]

>>6474564
>Well I just had to test that and... it didn't.
no proof, so you didn't
>if user haven't configured it properly
what isn't configured properly? He's a developer, he would want a stable, accurate environment.

[Anonymous No.6474638]

>>6474179
>i5-3570

SEVEN YEARS OLD

[Anonymous No.6474649]

>>6474627
>no proof, so you didn't
Test for yourself if you don't believe me.
>He's a developer
Apparently he's a developer that's not very good with computers.

[Anonymous No.6474718]

>>6474649
Tell him how to configure it properly then

[Anonymous No.6474721]

>>6474718
I'm not mednafen tech support. For as long as it works on my machine I am content.

[Anonymous No.6474760]

I've never had any issue with SSF. I also used to play N64 games with Project64 on an old Win98 setup and faced no problem at all.
"Muh accuracy" autists need to fuck off.

[Anonymous No.6474771]

i've completed a few games on mednafen and haven't had any issues
magic knight rayearth seems to have stuttering in the fmvs that doesn't occur on real hardware or on yabause, and i'm pretty sure die hard arcade still doesn't launch
also whoever said dc emulation is bad is a fucking retard, dc emulation has been fine for more than a decade at this point

[Anonymous No.6474916]

>>6474721
Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about

[Anonymous No.6474938]

>>6474916
I know exactly what I'm talking about, hence my bewilderment when I saw a man who doesn't know what he's talking about spouting blatant falsehoods. For what purpose, I wonder?

[Anonymous No.6475117]

I thought Retroarch Saturn emulation was good?
Haven't tried it myself. Is there something wrong with it?

[Anonymous No.6475123]

>>6475117
> Is there something wrong with it?
There is. It makes certain retards seethe like no tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.6475169]

>>6475117
If it's like standalone mednafen, then input lag. If it's not, then just beefy CPU requirements. I can run fucking RPCS3, but RA Mednafen is just too much.

[Anonymous No.6477007]

>>6474160
I seriously don't understand this meme about Mednafen Saturn input lag. I did some testing with Dead or Alive practice mode and there's probably 3-4 frames of lag at worst, it's almost imperceptible. Maybe it's because I'm using Gentoo with 1000hz USB polling, Wayland, a custom kernel optimised for desktop usage and etc etc

[Anonymous No.6477026]

once you're cucked you can't be "uncucked"

[Anonymous No.6477041]

>>6474096
You're fucked if you try to use a newer version on an older laptop, though. Shit apparently requires Vulkan now, and I have no idea what revision was the last one before that requirement.

[Anonymous No.6477047]

>>6474096
>finally get around to try it
>cue only
>some games work perfectly, others don't launch despite the cues looking the same formatting wise
I am starting to suspect this has the same issue with games that have mp3 files on the cue list as some other emulators had.
Anyone got a clue on that? Sega Rally and Panzer Dragoon in particular just refuse to launch and if they do it's without music.

[Anonymous No.6477053]

>>6477047
>mp3 files on the cue list

absolutely pleb tier

[Anonymous No.6477069]

>>6477053
That's cool Anon, but if I ask you really nicely, will you let me in on your secret technique to fix it?
For real though, I've not done this too often so I don't know.

[Anonymous No.6477076]

I guess people don't feel as much of a need to make good saturn emulators when a Japanese saturn is so cheap you can wipe your ass with them.

[Anonymous No.6477094]

>>6477069
convert the mp3 back to wav.

[Anonymous No.6477105]

>>6477094
Seems like an odd thing to do, but simple enough if that's it.

[Anonymous No.6477113]

>>6477069
There is no "fix". Those are just older, bad dumps of the game that used lossy compression techniques. You need to replace them with modern rips from redump or the like.

[Anonymous No.6477117]

What's wrong with Mednafen Saturn and SSF? There's even another new one called Kronos showing promise.
Just seems to me that no one is doing any research and still think Saturn emulation is fucked forever.

[Anonymous No.6477121]

>>6477117
SSF is still closed source Windows exclusive.

[Anonymous No.6477126]

>>6477113
Alright fair enough, given the wav thing didn't seem to work, I guess that just means looking for them again.

[Anonymous No.6477131]

>>6477126
Did you adjust the cue sheet accordingly?

[Anonymous No.6477134]

>>6477126
You don't have to dig.
>>>/vg/emugen

[Anonymous No.6477140]

>>6477131
I did. Admittedly via a program that's generating them automatically, but it looks no different from the usual.
Still giving me a cue sheet error, so I presume it's not that.

>>6477134
Yeah, I'm aware.

[Anonymous No.6477384]

>>6474179
>doesn't work on my 7 year old toaster
ok?

[Anonymous No.6477406]

So I just did tested this. In RetroArch Beetle Saturn has exactly 4 frames of input lag. I tested Radiant Silvergun, Taromaru and Shin Shinobi Den (Shinobi Legions). Sadly at least on my system the core seems to be completely incompatible to the runahead latency reduction feature but that might be due my hardware not being beefy enough. Any of you guys using this feature with no issues? My games run slowly and sound crackles as well when runahead is enabled.

[Anonymous No.6477459]

>>6477406
1 frame of run-ahead works fine for me but I don't know how to test whether it actually reduces the latency

[Anonymous No.6477463]

>>6477459
nevermind that I just tested frame by frame (p>k), it actually reduced delay from 4 frames to 3 frames
Nice!

[Anonymous No.6477486]

>>6473538
post your system specs

[Anonymous No.6477520]

>>6477406
>>6477463
4 frames is still very small, isn't it? I mean that's without counting display latencies like how fast it shows up on your monitor and how fast your inputs are read I guess but that doesn't sound bad at all.

[Anonymous No.6477521]

>>6477520
4 frames is 16.6ms*4 incurred delay
Albeit small in the overall pipeline (emulator>input>monitor) it's still preferable to reduce it when you have the option

[Anonymous No.6477524]

>>6477520
Yeah well, it's just more than with some of the other cores where next frame response is achieveable often achieveable - at least when emulation is paused and then advanced frame-by-frame. Who knows if it truely behaves that way when you unpause it. You'd have to get a high speed camera to check. There probably are videos out there where someone put in the work comparing stuff like this even to real hardware wiring up a button to two systems. I think the realest test would be filming to displays next to each other and just compare it that way.

In RetroArch I would think that generally you should set runahead frames on a per game basis. Not every game behaves the same and input lag isn't solely determined by the console. But the three games I tested all had 4 frames of lag in emulation.

[Anonymous No.6477530]

>>6477521
>4 frames is 16.6ms*4 incurred delay
Depends on the framerate the games run at, no? At 30 fps it's longer than at 60fps or am I making a mistake here? 4 frames lag isn't 4 fps lag. It's 4 frames out of a specific frameRATE. It 144 Hz it's not much at all.

[Anonymous No.6477535]

>>6477530
Internal FPS of the game does not matter. NTSC games always run at 60hz.

[Anonymous No.6477540]

>>6477535
Having a difficult time wrapping my head around that. I think noticed that when I was testing lag earlier in Panzer Dragoon and I would hit frameadvance the game would draw a new frame only ever other keystroke. And the lag was about double the keystrokes compared to the other 3 titles I tested - which I assume run at 60Hz? How does that fit with your post?

Maybe Panzer Dragoon is just weird though? It draws every frame twice maybe? But that, in my understanding, would mean that I am correct as more time will pass before an input shows feedback on the screen.

[Anonymous No.6477547]

>>6477540
Again, all NTSC games update 60 times per second. If the game itself cannot run at the target frame rate (like Panzer Dragon which runs at 20 fps internally), Saturn (or any other analog console) outputs 1 unique frame, followed by 2 duplicate frames in succession. This should not concern you, as retroarch runahead feature treats any frame output, be it unique or not, the same.

[Anonymous No.6477560]

>>6477547
Okay that makes more sense now to me. Decoupling it like. Thanks for clearing that up. So it still reduces input lag just the same... and why wouldn't it.

[Anonymous No.6477957]

>>6477486

[Anonymous No.6477961]

>>6473538
This her.
Also i have no idea what i'm doing, but holy shit the music is fucking amazing.

[Anonymous No.6478023]

>>6473298
>demul has 100 percent compatibility
with a shitload of input lag that's even worse than saturn.

[Anonymous No.6478812]

>>6477547
>(or any other analog console)
same for digital video output as well
with the exceptions of freesync and gsync, digital video has worked in the same way analog video did, just with digital signals (continuous stream of data with h/v blanking periods, continuous h/v sync rate)

only with freesync/gsync do you have the situation where a program (game) can update the display when it dictates (well, within the minimum and maximum rates of the monitor, outside of which frame repeating/dropping/stalling occurs as usual)

[Anonymous No.6479039]

>>6473175
I use Beetle Saturn, what's the problem with?

[Anonymous No.6479243]

>>6477961

Asuka 120% is that shit

[Anonymous No.6480431]

Where the h*ck do I get a bin and cue of english patched Sakura Taisen anyways? Retroarch doesn't seem to see it as an iso.

[Anonymous No.6480448]

>>6473298
>demul has 100 percent compatibility
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.6480451]

>>6477384
>>6474638
Not that guy, but
>what do you mean your 7 year-old hardware cant run 20+ year-old games? Maybe you should get a better system!
Doesn't sound like the state of emulators is worth a damn if 20+ year-old software eats everything but the newest tech alive.

[Anonymous No.6481051]

>>6480431
>>>/vg/emugen

[Anonymous No.6481276]

>>6473178
die hard arcade works like a charm, as does maken x. sounds like a you-problem anon

[Anonymous No.6481286]

>>6479039
3-4 frame input latency

[Anonymous No.6481287]

>>6473175
>>6473538
>>6473559
>emulates
>plays nothing but RPGs
It's a poor liberal faggot alright

[Anonymous No.6481308]

>>6473175
mednafen and redump rips you simpleton

[Anonymous No.6481361]

>>6480451
lets see you write a faster emulator that is just as accurate
early on computers weren't powerful enough to emulate basically anything truly accurately, and so emulators employed many short cuts, hardware accelleration, HLE techniques, dynamic recompilation, etc to try to speed the process up at the cost of limited compatibility and per-game hacks to make things just playable

modern emulators like bsnes instead are low-level emulators, simulating the system down to individual clock ticks, which is ridiculously expensive, but also extremely compatible, with no per-game hacks needed

[Anonymous No.6481679]

Anyone know where I can get a bin and cue for the english patched Sakura Taisen? Retroarch doesn't seem to see it as an iso.

[Anonymous No.6481778]

>>6473175
"WE" don't unless YOU learn to code, you useless waste of oxygen

[Anonymous No.6483375]

>>6481679
Anon, are you checked on CDRomance?

[Anonymous No.6483384]

>>6473342
Which games are you complaining about? Do you even know?

[Anonymous No.6483389]

>>6473440
here u go bro

[Anonymous No.6483392]

>>6473461
To create an emulator from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

[Anonymous No.6483395]

>>6474134
>make thread crying about emulators not being good enough
>get mad at people who use emulators
Schizophrenia is a treatable disease.

[Anonymous No.6483403]

>>6474143
>need a $3000 i9 processor to run 20 year old games
No, stop.

[Anonymous No.6483408]

>>6477406
You don't have the equipment to test 4 frames of input lag.

[Anonymous No.6483427]

>>6473175
Learn to code, you good-for-nothing

[Anonymous No.6483436]

>>6483408
You don't understand what you're talking about :^)

[Anonymous No.6483476]

What is OP talking about? I played through Panzer Dragoon Saga and Radiant Silvergun on SSF about 6-7 years ago. I had zero bugs or issues (other than a disc swap problem in PDS that I resolved in 10 minutes of Google searching -- you have to change a checkbox or the game crashes).

Overall very positive experiences. What's the problem with Saturn emulation?

[Anonymous No.6483486]

>>6483476
The problem is that the collectors of original hardware are deep into sunk cost fallacy and have to conjure strawmans to keep their sanity intact.

[Anonymous No.6483487]

>>6483476
Never had a problem with SSF either. People are probably just playing with worse emulators.

[Anonymous No.6483683]

>>6483436
No, you don't have the equipment to test 4 frames of input latency. Now you're avoiding the issue. Show me the methodology and benchmarks you used, you lying cocktard.

[Anonymous No.6484172]

>>6481679
You can patch it yourself if you'd just take a few minutes to read the included readme file...

[Anonymous No.6484183]

>>6483476
It's ok for common games, but when you go outside the big name games you run into problems. It's very much like what SNES emulation was years ago when all we had was ZSNES and SNES9x. Where you really start to notice issues is when you're doing any kind of hacking or homebrew. For example with Grandia this worked fine on all the major Saturn emulators:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAKUbJF5G6g

But on real hardware resulted in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBGBpn2cO1c

The reason? All the major emualtors are fudging their VDP2 implementations and a lot of the more subtle details like VRAM timings, what layers can be used while others are enabled, etc. are completely ignored.

[Anonymous No.6484253]

>>6483403
i've been playing panzer dragoon saga recently with a budget ryzen 3 2200g and it hasn't missed a frame

[Anonymous No.6485330]

>>6484183
Ah, see this is from the guy who didn't configure his emulator correctly. That's clearly the problem. He needs to learn how to configure it correctly.

[Anonymous No.6485347]

>>6473175
Buy a Saturn and play copies on it

[Anonymous No.6485368]

>>6483403
What? My old 2600k runs everything fullspeed.

[Anonymous No.6485373]

>>6483683
You clearly have no understanding of what input latency is and how easy it is to test on an emulator.

[Anonymous No.6485567]

>>6485373
This is a cop-out, you've posted no results whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.6486568]

>>6485330
That has nothing to do with emulator configuration. The emulators simply ignore VDP2's VRAM timings and the intricacies of what layers can be displayed when certain registers are set. The original Japanese version of Grandia didn't display any text during that sequence. In trying to add text to that part those issues were discovered. Fixing it required a lot of trial and error and wasted CD-Rs from testing on real hardware.

[Anonymous No.6486692]

>>6486568
>That has nothing to do with emulator configuration.
No, it's just that. Emulators are flawless. He clearly didn't configure the emulator correctly.

[Anonymous No.6486737]

>>6486692
Nah, it's just that the emulator devs can't make heads or tails of this document:

https://antime.kapsi.fi/sega/files/ST-058-R2-060194.pdf

[Anonymous No.6486745]

>>6474396
>playing sfz3 on saturn, not mame

Why?

[Anonymous No.6486747]

>>6486745
saturn version is superior to the arcade version

[Anonymous No.6486751]

>>6486745
To tickle your autism.

[Anonymous No.6486764]

>>6486745
More Characters, Better Dramatic Battle, and World Tour Mode.

[Anonymous No.6486782]

Still mad about redream going closed source, but at least the RA fags fixed a bunch of the issues reicast (now flycast) had a year later. Works good now with my favorite games.

[Anonymous No.6486795]

There are only a handful of games worth playing on Saturn and DC.

>Saturn
Silhouette Mirage
Radiant Silvergun

>DC
Shenmue 1
Shenmue 2

[Anonymous No.6486803]

>>6486692
There's also the guy developing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md8Ve7uB7A4

In testing his initial DSP code he was really excited because he saw a massive 10fps boost in performance when running in Mednafen. However on Real Hardware he saw little to no difference, in fact it ran worse. The reason? Mednafen doesn't emulate bus behavior accurately. So while in Mednafen he could easily send code and data back and forth to the DSP without problems, on real hardware he ran into bus contention issues that slowed it down.

He later was able to get it to to do some tasks and give a small 1-2fps boost, but it wasn't near the miracle that Mednafen initially showed.

[Anonymous No.6486812]

>>6486803
Wow, maybe he should develop for Mednafen since it's provably the superior platform here.

[Anonymous No.6486820]

>>6486795
Your opinions are retarded. I wish your parents had gone for a walk instead of fucking you into existence.

[Anonymous No.6486824]

>>6486812
Maybe he should reconsider his life choices.

[Anonymous No.6486920]

>>6481286
not with run-ahead mode

[Anonymous No.6486930]

>>6483476
>Panzer Dragoon Saga
>zero bugs or issues
fake news

[Anonymous No.6486942]

>>6486812
Yes, let's develop for an emulator that's inaccurate to the original hardware. That caused absolutely no problems with ZSNES...

[Anonymous No.6486952]

>>6473175
reminder that any console 5th gen and above will never be accurately emulated.

[Anonymous No.6486965]

>>6486952
except they all are already, just because you're not willing to look for good options doesn't mean they don't exist

[Anonymous No.6486968]

>>6486965
Except for the proof that's been given that Saturn Emulation isn't accurate.

[Anonymous No.6486969]

>>6486965
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Main_Page
notice how 0 consoles 5th gen or above have cycle accuracy.

[Anonymous No.6486973]

>>6486968
how is mednafen/beetle saturn not accurate? what evidence is there
>>6486969
fuck off with that bullshit, you're clutching at straws at this point

[Anonymous No.6486985]

>>6486952
>reminder that any console 5th gen and above will never be accurately emulated
*keks in PlayStation*

[Anonymous No.6486987]

>>6486973
-It runs too fast.
-It doesn't accurately emulate VDP2 (VRAM Timings, Register setting limits, Color Limits, etc.)
-It doesn't accurately emulate High-Res mode limits (Will let you use 15-bit RGB textures and Gouraud shading in high res mode which is a big no-no.)
-Doesn't emulate the DSP accurately
-Doesn't Emulate the CD-Block Accurately
-No MPEG Card Emulation
-Doesn't emulate Bus Contention accurately (Results in some games running faster than they should)

It's a lot of issues that causes problems for Homebrew Developers and people doing Rom Hacks and Translation Patches. It can also result in a few games bugging out, which is why there's a list of known bugs and compatibility issues:

https://forum.fobby.net/index.php?t=msg&th=1357

[Anonymous No.6487000]

>>6486987
typical, it's emugen autists that complain about non-issues to anyone that wants to play games

[Anonymous No.6487001]

>>6486985
GTE still isn't emulated accurately.

[Anonymous No.6487004]

>>6487000
I think things like Resident Evil crashing when you Rescue Jill/Chris is a pretty serious problem for people just wanting to play games.

[Anonymous No.6487013]

>>6486987
good thing ssf is still developed

[Anonymous No.6487023]

>>6487013
SSF isn't perfect either.

[Anonymous No.6487182]

>>6487004
Oh no one game doesn't work, better pack it up guys, can't play any Saturn games now

[Anonymous No.6487191]

>>6487004
Woah the EXCLUSIVE resident evil has an issue guys. The emu is shit and makes everything else unplayable

[Anonymous No.6487195]

>>6487013
What's SSF stand for again? Stolen Sega Factsheets?
Emulators pretty wonky all cheating considered.

[Anonymous No.6487208]

>>6487182
>>6487191

-Grandia also would crash at the change disc screens. They supposedly fixed it with an awful hack in the latest version, but I'm not sure how good said awful hack is.
-Fighters Megamix will crash if you let the intro play or try to skip it mid playback.
-Dragon Force II Crashes during FMV playback
-Magic Knight Rayearth has bad FMV Stuttering
-Rayman Hangs during the final boss
-Virtua Fighter and Remix will regularly vomit graphical garbage.
-Burning Rangers has text display problems
-Christmas NiGHTS displays garbage sprites from time to time
-Capcom games with art galleries will display garbage due to VDP2 VRAM timings not being accurately emulated.

That's just a few examples, but there's more in the list linked above, and again far from every game has been tested.

The general trend you should be noticing is issues with FMV playback and Sound (CD Block in accuracy), VDP2 garbage (VDP2 VRAM timings) and general crashes (Buses and CPU being inaccurate).

[Anonymous No.6487217]

>>6487208
I haven’t experienced any of that on those games but alright man. Just go buy a pseudo Saturn and fuck off

[Anonymous No.6487218]

>>6487208
>FMV issues
sounds accurate to the actual Saturn to me

[Anonymous No.6487231]

>>6487217
Piss and moan and move the goal posts all you want, it wont change the fact that Saturn emulation is far from accurate. You were wrong on this subject. Deal with it and move on.


>>6487218
The Saturn can handle FMV just fine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B5xdkzEHb4

[Anonymous No.6487239]

>>6487231
>far from accurate
give it up, you're acting as if it's completely unplayable and it's not, it's not even remotely near unplayable

[Anonymous No.6487279]

>>6487239
It is pretty bad if you're doing any kind of Programming for the thing. Which I assume you like those Patches and Translations that have been coming out lately right? Inaccurate emulation makes doing those significantly more difficult.

The point is, Saturn Emulation right now is about as accurate as ZSNES was back in ~2002. Yeah it's playable and works for the popular games, but it's far from accurate. You're the one that asked what was wrong with it, just because you don't like the answer doesn't change any of it.

[Anonymous No.6487342]

>>6487279
Now you’re bringing hacks and translations into the equation?
The reason there aren’t too many is because majority of Saturn games that need translating are gigantic text RPGs, most people don’t want to undertake all of that shit
Stop bullshitting your ass off

[Anonymous No.6487502]

>>6486930
>when i first tried to acquire panzer dragoon saga, my computer met some malware and blue-screened several times.

[Anonymous No.6487514]

>>6486920
Run ahead mode doesn't work well with beetle saturn.

[Anonymous No.6487526]

>>6487231
>>6487279
It works for almost the entire library and is quite accurate by any measure. It isn’t that I don’t like the answer it’s that you’re lying and listing old bugs and complaining about some turbo autist edge case stuff

[Anonymous No.6487618]

>>6487514
Yeah I suppose not, but the input lag is negligible anyway, just as it is with majority of digital inputs, unlike the PPSSPP emulator where it’s near half a second of delay

[Anonymous No.6487678]

>>6486987
I agree, but lets be real dropping 300+ on a saturn + ODE + rgb solution isn't worth it for the less than 5 games that aren't just arcade ports.
I wish SEGA would just come up with a proper emulation solution for saturn, dreamcast and their xbox games on modern consoles + pc. I'd buy panzer dragoon for full price.

[Anonymous No.6487684]

>>6487678
panzer dragoon already has a windows version

[Anonymous No.6487690]

>>6487678
You can literally already do that on Xbox one though, Orta is playable in 4K and includes the original game

[Anonymous No.6487693]

>>6487690
yes but you can't really install cfw on xbox past certain 360's.

[Anonymous No.6487696]

>>6487693
>I'd buy panzer dragoon for full price
So you didn’t mean this at all?

[Anonymous No.6487707]

>>6487696
I don't care about cfw specifically for piracy but I do like having my digital games backed up because they constantly get fucked with.
the re:birth games on Wiiware for example. You literally can't play them on real hardware now without cfw

[Anonymous No.6487721]

>>6487690
Isn't Xbox One emulation even worse than Saturn?

[Anonymous No.6487723]

>>6487707
You could just use an external HDD if you wanted to store your digital games, also games aren’t prevented from playing, they have no way to buy them through official channels

[Anonymous No.6487726]

>>6487721
I’m talking about the console and it’s backwards compatibility with the original Xbox

[Anonymous No.6487731]

>>6473567
love me some Xmen vs Streetfighter in Retroarch using Saturn beetle, runs great

[Anonymous No.6487745]

>>6473567
I agree but I think Redream is a better emulator for Dreamcast

[Anonymous No.6487793]

Is there a way to run pal games at 60hz with beetle saturn? Wanted to play keio but that was the problem I ran into a while back when I tried it

[Anonymous No.6487806]

>>6487618
It's not negligible. On saturn it's 3-4 frames, on PPSSPP it's 5-7 frames in OGL and 3-5 frames in DX11, on NES/SNES/MD emulators it's usually 1 frame of delay. So yeah, frame delay is an issue for saturn emulation.

[Anonymous No.6487827]

>>6487793
nothing in emulator, you'd have to find a hacked version of the game if there is even one
>>6487806
I don't know how you're playing it but I have nowhere near that much lag on saturn and the PPSSPP is straight up more like 15

[Anonymous No.6487830]

>>6487827
It's not a matter of how you're playing, input delay is inherent to the emulator and currently cannot be reduced.

[Anonymous No.6487834]

>>6487830
then you are straight up lying

[Anonymous No.6487837]

>>6487834
About what? All of what I've said can be easily measured.

[Anonymous No.6487847]

>>6487834
why do you care? if you don't notice it then you should be happy.

[Anonymous No.6487853]

>>6487847
because people making up issues that aren't there should be disputed, has he compared the frame loss to an actual Saturn or does he have proof?

[Anonymous No.6487857]

>>6487853
input lag in saturn emulation has been known for a long time, it's nothing new

[Anonymous No.6487859]

>>6473178
redream runs Skies of Arcadia silky smooth on a chink phone. time to upgrade that pentium iv to something worthwhile, old timer.

[Anonymous No.6487862]

>>6487853
you don't even understand what you're talking about, anon
consoles don't have "frame loss"
some games may have additional 1-2 frames of delay, but that is uncommon

[Anonymous No.6487872]

>>6487723
>they have no way to buy them through official channels
exactly
so if you need a new console or something you're SOL.
I got burned with this shit with Outrun online arcade on my PS3. My fatboi died and by the time I got a slim it was unavailable to download.
Same with afterburner climax and MGO. cfw let me have those games again and there's even private servers for MGO now too.
cfw isn't just about piracy. Same shit applies with older consoles and shit like translations on real hardware.
I don't like it when corporations tell me what I can and can't do with hardware that I own.

[Anonymous No.6487927]

>>6481286
>3-4 frame input latency
name on game thats an issue

[Anonymous No.6487976]

>>6487927
Don’t bother arguing, they don’t play games they just keep up with the “emulation scene”

[Anonymous No.6488051]

>>6487927
https://github.com/libretro/beetle-saturn-libretro/issues/36

[Anonymous No.6488057]

>>6487927
Issue? That would depend on the person and his input/output configuration. It can certainly be smaller, and that's the point.

[Anonymous No.6488631]

>>6473175
>How do we uncuck Saturn emulation
Maybe if some kids hack Sega like that kid hacked Nintendo and they leak proprietary hardware information like the verilog code.

[Anonymous No.6488659]

>>6488631
Yeah, right

[Anonymous No.6488662]

>>6488659
It's the only way.

[Anonymous No.6488676]

>>6488662
so nothings gonna happen lol

[Anonymous No.6488725]

>>6487342
>The reason there aren’t too many is because majority of Saturn games that need translating are gigantic text RPGs
I didn't say that was the reason they aren't happening, I said it makes it more difficult than it already is. If anything that scene is starting to explode at the moment. But the issue of inaccurate emulation is causing problems when testing hacks. There's a lot of intricacies with the Saturn that aren't accurately emulated which creates problems.

>>6487526
> It isn’t that I don’t like the answer it’s that you’re lying and listing old bugs
Yet the list is updated with each release and those bugs are still on it.

>and complaining about some turbo autist edge case stuff
And your arguments are the same as the casual SNES fanboy back in the days of ZSNES. Those edge cases do cause problems for quite a few games, otherwise there wouldn't be a list of bugs and compatibility issues. And when you're doing any kind of translations or romhacks it's a serious issue. People taking your "it's good enough" mindset is how we've ended up with Romhacks and Translations that will only work on archaic emulators, some of which wont even run on modern PCs.

You're free to enjoy using those emulators, but don't lie and say they're accurate when they're clearly not.

>>6487678
> dropping 300+ on a saturn
Try $50 tops.
>ODE
A $20 mod chip will do just fine.
>rgb solution
An $8 S-Video cable is more than adequate.

[Anonymous No.6488730]

>>6488725
>there wouldn't be a list of bugs and compatibility issues
So where is this list?

[Anonymous No.6488782]

>>6488730
On the dev forums:
https://forum.fobby.net/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=3&

There's a stickied thread for Saturn bugs. Some posts towards the end have new bugs that haven't been added to the list, and there's individual threads for other bugs as well.

[Anonymous No.6488862]

>>6488051
>using frontend frame advance feature to 'measure' input lag
People are really that much ignorant?

[Anonymous No.6488885]

>>6488782
>https://forum.fobby.net/index.php?t=msg&th=1357&start=0&
Wow that doesn't really seem like a huge list at all considering most of it is fixed and Saturn having over 1000 games in its library.

[Anonymous No.6488896]

>>6473175
Learn to code?

[Anonymous No.6489081]

>>6487502
He ran the .exe a cheeky cunt gave him.

[Anonymous No.6489109]

>>6489081
something tells me the guy didn't generate and compare checksums with known good dumps

[Anonymous No.6489180]

>>6488885
What makes you think the entire library has been tested? There's also bugs and issues that have been mentioned elsewhere that aren't on that list.

The point is, Saturn Emulation is about as accurate as ZSNES and Nesticle were. Yeah they run most of the popular games in the library in a playable state, but they're far from being accurate. Just because you're ok with this doesn't change the fact that the emulation is inaccurate.

[Anonymous No.6489189]

>>6489180
Stop exaggerating

[Anonymous No.6489198]

>>6489180
>The point is, Saturn Emulation is about as accurate as ZSNES and Nesticle were
Well, apparently this point is completely wrong.

[Anonymous No.6489207]

>>6489189
>Stop pointing out what's wrong with Saturn emulation! It's fine for the 20 games I want to play! Stop Exaggerating!
Imagine if people like Byuu did that years ago when people were telling them that ZSNES was fine.

>Well, apparently this point is completely wrong.
Then why can I run the same code in Mednafen and again on a real system and get radically different results?

[Anonymous No.6489221]

>>6489207
your thinking is very binary, that is well expected of someone who collects original hardware
handful of obscure games exhibiting minor issues do not render an emulator inaccurate

[Anonymous No.6489237]

>>6489207
>radically different results
Yeah, totally not exaggerating at all

[Anonymous No.6489242]

>>6489221
>handful of obscure games exhibiting minor issues do not render an emulator inaccurate
Not matching the original hardware 1:1 by definition is inaccurate emulation. In a lot of cases it's not minor but games completely hanging and crashing. It's a big problem for people doing translations, romhacks, and homebrew. If Saturn emulation was accurate this same build of Grandia shouldn't produce these two radically different results:

Mednafen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAKUbJF5G6g
Real Hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBGBpn2cO1c

That's not configurations or anything like that with Mednafen, that's Mednafen completely ignoring VDP2 VRAM timings, Bus Contention, and limits on what layers can be displayed when certain registers are enabled.

[Anonymous No.6489246]

>>6489242
> In a lot of cases it's not minor but games completely hanging and crashing
What cases? Please list the games that exhibit such behavior on Mednafen Saturn.

[Anonymous No.6489293]

>>6489246
-Resident Evil crashes when you try to Save Jill/Chris
-Dragon Force II will hang when you try to skip an FMV
-Rayman Hangs during the final boss
-Lunar Silver Star Story hangs when you talk to a certain NPC
-Darklight Conflict draws garbage text on the screen over a good chunk of the screen due to VDP2 VRAM timing not being accurate. At it's worst it can cover the screen with it.
-Capcom Generation 5 has background tearing issues due to again VDP2 inaccuracies.

Again, just go down this list:
https://forum.fobby.net/index.php?t=msg&th=1357&prevloaded=1&&start=0

Also see the above issue with Grandia and VDP2 VRAM timing inaccuracies.

[Anonymous No.6490187]

>>6489242
this is only a problem translating to an original saturn though
>>6489293
you are really stretching this accuracy thing and not that it doesn't work well

[Anonymous No.6490275]

>>6473175
Saturn emulation sucks

[Anonymous No.6490339]

>>6490187
not an argument

[Anonymous No.6490354]

>>6490339
>hey guys saturn emulation is terrible because it’s not 1:1 accuracy with a real Saturn
>actually most games play well and are improved in performance
>not an argument

[Anonymous No.6490381]

>>6490354
>actually most games play well and are improved in performance

But that's simply wrong you dishonest, lying rat.

[Anonymous No.6490413]

>>6490381
It’s simply not, why don’t you admit you’ve never used it and don’t have a system capable of using it

[Anonymous No.6490419]

>>6490413
You lying little rat

[Anonymous No.6490421]

>>6490413
>i9-9900K
>2 x RTX 2080
>64 GB DDR4 RAM
cope harder, emu poorfag :^)

[Anonymous No.6490427]

>>6490419
>>6490421
Then your issues have nothing to do with the emulator and is related to some personal vendetta, I suggest you fuck off and stop trying to start shit

[Anonymous No.6490454]

>>6490419
>>6490381
Wow the fact that there's excellent Saturn emulation really does put you under a lot of distress huh.

[Anonymous No.6490457]

>>6490427
By Allah, you are a liar and fraud! I'm done with you.

[Anonymous No.6490482]

>>6490457
works on my machine bro

[Anonymous No.6491541]

>>6473175
>How do we uncuck Saturn emulation
but why? we think the flaws give it SOUL.

[Anonymous No.6491548]

>>6481287
lol what

/pol/, go home, you're drunk.

[Anonymous No.6491597]

>>6474607
>>6474484
It's pretty well known in the saturn dev community that while certain emulators have gotten pretty good (especially mednafen), the timing of certain components in the system are not correctly emulated in any emulator. The documentation is incomplete and often incomprehensible about this level of detail
Most games probably don't rely on timing being perfect at least.

[Anonymous No.6492078]

>>6490187
>this is only a problem translating to an original saturn though
That's the point. None of the Saturn emulators are accurate in this regard. The Emulators will let you get away with doing something that's completely wrong and invalid on real hardware. As a result developers doing translations, hacks, etc. can end up spending tons of time and effort on something only to find out it was all a waste because it wont work on real hardware.

>you are really stretching this accuracy thing and not that it doesn't work well
No, you're just putting blinders on and trying to sweep it under the rug. It's fine if this level of accuracy is good enough for you. However, this level of accuracy is not accurate to the Original hardware and it is a problem for some games as well as developers working on Translations, Hacks, and Homebrew.

[Anonymous No.6492104]

>>6491597
>>6492078
Keep moving those goal posts

[Anonymous No.6492112]

>>6492104
I haven't been moving them. That's you guys. You went from
>Mednafen is accurate and perfect!
to
>Well it's good enough for me...

Your favorite emulator isn't perfect and is inaccurate. Cope with that fact.

[Anonymous No.6492140]

>>6492112
Not only are you moving those goal posts, you’re completely changing what was being said, keep digging

[Anonymous No.6492340]

>>6492140
What I described literally happened within these posts:
>>6486973
>How is it not Accurate? What evidence is there?
>>6486987
>List of inaccuracies provided.
>>6487000
>I-it's good enough for me!

[Anonymous No.6492612]

>>6473175
Emulation bad

[Anonymous No.6493985]

>>6473175
Uncuck yourself and play on real hardware.

[Anonymous No.6493990]

>>6493985
>>6492612
Emulation experience is better than real hardware.

[Anonymous No.6494019]

>>6493990
Sure buddy

[Anonymous No.6494034]

>>6494019
Works on my machine bro

[Anonymous No.6494038]

God, you motherfuckers are obnoxious.

[Anonymous No.6494040]

>>6494038
Sunk cost fallacy can drive some people insane.

[Anonymous No.6494045]

>>6494040
You're actually incapable of stopping, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.6494067]

>>6494045
Stopping what?

[Anonymous No.6494120]

>>6473175
Become an emu dev.

[Anonymous No.6495415]

How long till saturn and other 32bit emulation gets run ahead emulation?

[Anonymous No.6495421]

>>6495415
beetle saturn supports run ahead but saturn's ram size makes it nigh to impossible to run efficiently

[Anonymous No.6495429]

>>6495421
Really? I hope they figure it out because run ahead has made real hardware on CRTs obsolete for 16bit and back games. Really hoping for it to come to psp emulation.

[Anonymous No.6495435]

>>6495415
it's a lot more viable in 2D games, but as long as your CPU can handle 2 instances of an emulator