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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6470167 No.6470167 [Reply] [Original]

What's the best way to play Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles for the first time? One of the other, or combined?

>> No.6470174

Sonic 3 Complete.

>> No.6470189
File: 9 KB, 293x224, sk-bginfo-storylineimg1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6470189

>>6470174
Fuck off.
Play them as originally released.
For Sonic & Knuckles, you can play it with the lock-on function if you want, but I'd recommend playing it without if it's the first time.
Sonic 3 content (for example, the final boss) is completely removed if you play with the lock-on. People back in 1994 played Sonic 3 before S&K was even released, so do that.
S&K doesn't get any content removed if you play with lock-on except for the title screen. So, to really see everything the games have to offer, play them separately.
For a second playthrough, do play with lock-on, and also try to go for all 14 emeralds.
If you really like them and want more, then go and check the "Complete" romhack which lets you customize your experience. But don't fall for the meme, Complete is a fan-made hack and is not faithful to how people experienced these games back in the day.

>> No.6470190

>>6470189
You know Sonic 3 Complete has options to restore all the stuff that gets changed when connected to S&K, right.

Way to go full autismo over nothing.

>> No.6470191

>>6470189
>Complete is a fan-made hack and is not faithful to how people experienced these games back in the day.
He didn't ask for the most 'faithful' experience though, you buttblasted retard.

>> No.6470194

>>6470191
>for the first time
>>6470190
Sure, it has the options, but if OP never played the original games, he will not know how the originals were.
Notice how I even recommended Complete as a 3rd playthrough. I just don't recommend it as a first time experience.

>> No.6470197

>>6470194
You could make the argument that it's even more 'faithful' than the originals, because it restores the original zone orders that would've made sense before the (((lock-on split))).

>> No.6470202

>>6470197
>because it restores the original zone orders
Not a factor, not how people played them in 1994.
It's fine as a curiosity for later playthroughs, just not for first time playthrough.
>(((lock-on split)))
Why did you even add the kike waves, you sperg?

>> No.6470206

>>6470202
Because it was done purely for profit.

>> No.6470215

>>6470206
Maybe, although developer interviews state that S&K was largely unfinished by the time Sonic 3 released. Most of the budget+devtime of Sonic 3 was spent on "Sonic 3D", which was going to feature the SVP chip. Had to be scrapped when they were told the chip couldn't be mass produced in time for the Sonic 3 schedule, so they had to work out a 2D game.
The lock-on functionality idea allowed them to make a 2nd game (S&K). It doesn't seem like all 14 stages of 3&K were completed at the time Sonic 3 released.

>> No.6470224

The games are meant to be connected, just play through them connected with whatever character selection you want. That's how it should be played.

>>6470189
This is a bad attitude, you may as well tell him to play Diablo 2 without expansion before playing with expansion.

>> No.6470227

>>6470224
Unlike Diablo, Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are 1 hour long games.
Also, if the intended way to play these games was always with the lock-on, then the Sonic Team wouldn't have removed content like Big Arm.
The games were meant to be enjoyed both as stand-alone releases, and with the lock-on functionality.
It's like saying Sonic 2's true intention is to be played as Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2.

>> No.6470236

>>6470227
>It's like saying Sonic 2's true intention is to be played as Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2.
That doesn't add anything substantial like seven new special stages, or the hyper forms of Sonic/Tails/Knuckles.

>> No.6470238

>>6470227
>Also, if the intended way to play these games was always with the lock-on
First of all, that doesn't matter. I played those games as a kid and I never gave one fuck what the developers wanted. That's not why either of these games exist.

Second of all, Sonic 3 and Knuckles was an absolute clusterfuck of a development cycle for multiple reasons and it's not clear what the real intention of either game actually was. Just play it like someone in 1994 would have wanted like a common sense player who gives a fuck about having fun.

Third of all,
>It's like saying Sonic 2's true intention is to be played as Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2.
Everyone knows this isn't true, including you. The Diablo 2 comparison is accurate and this is not.

>> No.6470242

>>6470236
>seven new special stages
They're not "new", you can still play the same ones in stand-alone S&K.
>or the hyper forms of Sonic/Tails/Knuckles.
I'd have a hard time considering these forms "substantial", but OK, I'll give you that. Still, not important for a first-time playthrough. I doubt OP will go and get all the emeralds on his first playthrough, anyway.

>> No.6470251

>>6470167
Sonic 3 A.I.R.

>> No.6470263

>>6470238
>I played those games as a kid and I never gave one fuck what the developers wanted
Your opinion is irrelevant though. Especially your opinion as a kid.
>Just play it like someone in 1994 would have
I do agree here, which is why I recommend OP to play Sonic 3 stand-alone first. I give him the option to play S&K with the lock-on if he wants to go through Sonic 3 again and see Knuckles' paths, but he'd also be missing the title screen for S&K.
>The Diablo 2 comparison is accurate and this is not.
The Diablo comparison is not accurate because the Sonic games are shorter arcade-style experiences.
My overall recommendation to experience both games would be as follows:
1) Play Sonic 3 stand-alone first.
2) Play Sonic & Knuckles stand alone first, and choose Knuckles. Doesn't matter if you get all the emeralds or not.
3) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles, with Sonic. Do get all the emeralds, and enjoy an amazing secret final boss, that makes up for the missing Big Arm boss fight.
4) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles, with Knuckles, to experience his own paths in S3. (Optional: get all emeralds to see Hyper Knuckles in the S&K portion)
5) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Tails, to experience Tails' exclusive paths, the few of them that there are. (Optional: get all emeralds to see Hyper Tails, actually Hyper Tails is more interesting than either Hyper Sonic or Hyper Knuckles due to the flickies mechanic)
6) Play Sonic 3 Complete if you want to experiment mixing things up to your liking.

>> No.6470270

>>6470263
>1) Play Sonic 3 stand-alone first.
>2) Play Sonic & Knuckles stand alone first, and choose Knuckles. Doesn't matter if you get all the emeralds or not.
>3) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles, with Sonic. Do get all the emeralds, and enjoy an amazing secret final boss, that makes up for the missing Big Arm boss fight.
You're a retarded casual faggot. Just because you didn't get all the emeralds in a single playthrough when you were nine doesn't mean that a grown man couldn't do it. Fucking kill yourself, you obnoxious shitposting retard, goddamn.

>> No.6470292

>>6470263
>Your opinion is irrelevant though. Especially your opinion as a kid.
My opinion is the gold standard because I was one of the millions of kids you played the game correctly when it came out, which was of course to dock the games if able.
>The Diablo comparison is not accurate because the Sonic games are shorter arcade-style experiences.
Autismal rambling. S3&K is the actual experience.

>> No.6470302

>>6470270
What are you talking about? Kids can grab the emeralds just fine, Sonic 3 has the easiest bonus stages in all of Sonic games.
In fact, I advice to not go for the emeralds on a first playthrough, it just halts the pacing of the game in a tedious way.
It's better to just enjoy the levels proper from start to finish. Then, on subsequent playthroughs, you can go for emerald hunting.
>Fucking kill yourself, you obnoxious shitposting retard, goddamn.
No need to be so upset, anon.
>>6470292
>played the game correctly when it came out
>which was of course to dock the games if able.
Try again. Sonic & Knuckles wasn't released when Sonic 3 came out. Nice LARP though.
>S3&K is the actual experience.
It's just a part of the experience. The optimal full experience is as I stated.

>> No.6470306

>>6470302
Oh, so now you're recommending people go OUT OF THEIR WAY TO NOT PLAY THE SPECIAL STAGES. You're a fucking trip. Get AIDS and then fall down a flight of stairs, neck-first.

>> No.6470309

>>6470306
>Oh, so now you're recommending people go OUT OF THEIR WAY TO NOT PLAY THE SPECIAL STAGES
No, I'm just recommending them to not go specifically for the emeralds if they don't feel like it, as it breaks the pacing of the game (the same happens with Sonic 2's special stages).
It's just a suggestion, not mandatory.
And stop being angry, we're only discussing video games.

>> No.6470320

>>6470309
I can get angry when a retard like you who doesn't even know what a paragraph is comes in and asserts his retardation like law. If this were real life, you would be shot at like the commie you are.

>> No.6470345

>>6470320
Please point out where is the flaw in any of my posts, then.
I'm literally answering OP in the best possible way.
What's the best way to play Sonic 3 and S&K for the first time? The correct answer is, as originally released. Anything other than that is wrong.

>> No.6470350

>>6470263
>>6470189
Thanks for the detailed replies. I guess I'm gonna play it this way.

>> No.6470353

>>6470345
I actually don't care about the content of your posts at this point. Learn how to use a paragraph, or I'm not responding to your plebeian ass again.

>> No.6470357

>>6470350
No problem OP, just genuinely trying to help. Pardon the kerfuffle with the other anons.

>> No.6470358

>>6470350
>me follow the person with the most words
Predictable.

>> No.6470363

>>6470263
>1) Play Sonic 3 stand-alone first.
>2) Play Sonic & Knuckles stand alone first, and choose Knuckles. Doesn't matter if you get all the emeralds or not.
>3) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles, with Sonic. Do get all the emeralds, and enjoy an amazing secret final boss, that makes up for the missing Big Arm boss fight.
>4) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles, with Knuckles, to experience his own paths in S3. (Optional: get all emeralds to see Hyper Knuckles in the S&K portion)
>5) Play Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Tails, to experience Tails' exclusive paths, the few of them that there are. (Optional: get all emeralds to see Hyper Tails, actually Hyper Tails is more interesting than either Hyper Sonic or Hyper Knuckles due to the flickies mechanic)
This is actually a pretty good guide.

>> No.6470370

>>6470363
More of this faggot's Discord buttbuddies.

>> No.6470374

>>6470370
The fuck are you talking about?

>> No.6470376

>>6470302
>Try again. Sonic & Knuckles wasn't released when Sonic 3 came out.
No shit, sherlock, and truthfully the game wasn't really complete until S&K came out.

>> No.6470393

>>6470376
So you think people just waited until S&K came out to play Sonic 3?

>> No.6470406

>>6470393

You think people waited until Lord of Destruction to play Diablo 2? Again you are proving the comparison.

You've made no point in favor of argument. There's no developer intention to consider in a simple platformer and really S3&K can be considered one game.

>> No.6470410

>>6470406
-Sonic games aren't long campaigns like Diablo
-Sonic 3 & Knuckles is missing content from both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles. It's a nice extra mode, though.

>> No.6470418

>>6470410
>-Sonic games aren't long campaigns like Diablo
You keep saying this and keeps meaning nothing. S3&K is one game and is the complete experience. Game length is not an attribute that matters in this consideration.
>-Sonic 3 & Knuckles is missing content from both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles. It's a nice extra mode, though.
S3 and S&K are both missing the complete game, which is S3&K.

>> No.6470421

>>6470418
>You keep saying this and keeps meaning nothing
It means that I'm not making OP waste 10+ hours with the original release. Playing through the original Sonic 3 takes less than an hour, and it includes exclusive content that is missing with the lock-on. Does the expansion in Diablo take off stuff that was in the original base game?
>S3 and S&K are both missing the complete game, which is S3&K.
Are you sure? Because I am pretty sure S3&K is missing content.

>> No.6470428

>>6470421
>It means that I'm not making OP waste 10+ hours with the original release
Again, this has no meaning, he literally just asked for the correct way to play the game. You're just supposed to direct him to the good version, which is S3&K.
>Are you sure? Because I am pretty sure S3&K is missing content.
Yes I am sure you can't play Knuckles in S3 or Tails in S&K, being as S3&K is the complete game and is how you should be playing the game.

>> No.6470429

>>6470428
>he literally just asked for the correct way to play the game
No, he asked for the best way to play both games _for the first time_
I don't get why are you even angry, I'm not telling him to not try the lock-on feature later on.
You're acting as if OP only has 1 chance to play the games at all.

>> No.6470436

>>6470429
>_for the first time_
S3&K, no question. The games are designed to be docked and this unlocks the most content and features. It's the real game.

I'm not angry, I am disagreeing with your autistic worldview that you need to play the games in certain "developer intention" sequences that aren't real and definitely wouldn't have even existed if S3 had had an untroubled development cycle.

Furthermore, I'm an authoritative source on the game in its day and one of the people that made the game a success by being one of the millions that played it, and the opinion is unanimous. If you can get your hands on both games then you get both of them, plug them in together, and then play complete experience. You are offering crude "but it's not what the developers intended!" arguments at best.

>> No.6470441
File: 7 KB, 320x224, sonic3_bigarm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6470441

>>6470436
3&K is a cool feature, but it's still missing content, namely the final boss of Sonic 3.
>I am disagreeing with your autistic worldview
What's autistic about recommending OP the most faithful way to enjoy the games? Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't use the lock-on later on.
>I'm an authoritative source on the game in its day and one of the people that made the game a success by being one of the millions that played it
Allow me to doubt your claim.

>> No.6470489

>>6470358
BTFO

>> No.6470560

Sonic 3 Complete is the best way IMO. It's S3&K with the original S3 enemy/hazard placements and music.
There's also Sonic 3 A.I.R. which is kinda like S3C but in widescreen with a constant 60fps.

>> No.6472030

>>6470441
>3&K is a cool feature, but it's still missing content, namely the final boss of Sonic 3.
That's why you play Complete, you incomprehensibly stupid nigger.

>> No.6473584

>>6470167
>for the first time?
Serperately, for sure. Revisit the game with lock on later.

>> No.6473771

>>6470167
Play Sonic 3 vanilla, then S3&K locked on. S&K vanilla is no different than S3&K except for no saving, no Tails, and a shorter Mushroom Hill Act 1, or else I would agree with this anon >>6470189

>> No.6474318

>>6472030
Or just play them as originally released. Complete shills are annoying

>> No.6474439

DS Sonic Collection, jk

>> No.6474448

>>6473771
>S&K vanilla is no different than S3&K except for no saving, no Tails, and a shorter Mushroom Hill Act 1
Yup there is basically no reason to play vanilla S&K if you have access to lock on both games unless for some reason you want to skip all the Sonic 3 levels.

>> No.6474452

>>6473771
Best compromise.

Also, I think S3&K will remember your completed saves from S3 alone and let you resume them at Mushroom Hill, so you won't have to redo the first half.