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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 49 KB, 512x288, kof 98 um.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6443486 No.6443486 [Reply] [Original]

It really sucks that if you want to play retro fighting game, that it is ALMOST a perfect experience.

The graphics are amazingly polished

The stages have an incredible level of detail to them

The sound design still sounds cutting edge

The OST is always amazing

And the cast of characters are all unique and novel, especially for the time.

But the fucking thing that ruins the experience completely... is that these games are meant to be played with other people. And if you don't have them, then guess what? You're stuck playing the shitty ass CPU. The shitty CPU which reads inputs, which ignores recovery frames on moves and allows itself to do combos that are literally impossible. The shitty CPU which doesn't reward actually learning mechanics or combos at all.

KoF 98 for example is one of the most beautiful fighting games, in terms of visuals, audio, and gameplay. But goddamn, what is the point in playing KoF 98 UM on my Dreamcast when I am just playing it by myself against a CPU that ranges from pathetically easy and not even attempting to fight back, to straight-up cheating?

When I was a kid, yeah, playing against the CPU was all I knew and all that I had so I didn't know how fucking bad it was. But while I can go back to literally any other retro game genre and still greatly enjoy it, fighting games are just ruined by the CPU.

Does anyone else feel this way? Like I already said, the polish and production values of retro fighting games is unparalleled. But I don't know how anyone who doesn't have friends to play them with can enjoy them.

The closest comparison I can think of is playing an early Mario Party game vs the CPU. Yeah when we were kids it was fine when you win every minigame and win the game by 10 Stars, but if you go back now and play against the CPU, it is mind-numbingly dull.

>> No.6443504

>>6443486
That sucks. My uni has regular game nights with Tekken 5 and some other games. Seriously considering buying an extra controller and bringing my Dreamcast for a change of pace and to get the lads into SoulCalibur

>> No.6443510

>>6443504
Your uni isn't shut down?

>> No.6443514

>>6443510
Of course it is, it's been about 2 months.

>> No.6443730

>>6443486
Yeah you know OP that does suck, I remember back in the day I really had to try and find local kids and practically had to force them to play fighting games with me on console, cause they all only wanted to play shooters or co op games or fucking Mario Potty

Sucked back then....it's pretty cool that these days a thing called Fightcade exists though, you can play online with other players for free! Slightly limited choice of games, but can't go wrong with multiple classic Capcom and SNK fighters to choose from that people actually play pretty much 24 7!!!!

>> No.6443773

>>6443486
>But the fucking thing that ruins the experience completely... is that these games are meant to be played with other people. And if you don't have them, then guess what? You're stuck playing the shitty ass CPU.
Get some friends faggot

>> No.6443781

>>6443486
Literally nothing is stopping you from playing against other people online using a emulator.

>> No.6443795

>>6443486
>The shitty CPU which reads inputs, which ignores recovery frames on moves and allows itself to do combos that are literally impossible.
That's what makes it challenging and different than fighting people, it's beatable, you just have to adapt to it's style.

>The shitty CPU which doesn't reward actually learning mechanics or combos at all.
Of course it does. There are people who play these games for score or speedrun and stomp the CPU.

>> No.6443835

>>6443486
KOF 98UM on ps/2 has a bunch of extra modes and challenges

>> No.6443852

>>6443730
I enjoy getting my ass handed to me by a Mexican in any SNK games on Fightcade

>> No.6443931

>>6443852
Yeah, Arcades are still very popular around here, the problem is that, contrary to Japan, they never evolved, so we're still playing Cadillacs and Dinosaurs and Waku Waku 7, just like back in the 90's.

>> No.6443956
File: 637 KB, 827x1169, 1589221875092.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6443956

If you have shitty internet and can't fightcade online then just play beat em ups, similar fighting experience but better balanced and dynamic for solo play.

>> No.6444863

>>6443773
And convince them to come over at a whim, to play a genre that requires practice, on a system they don't actually own, on a game that they have never played before, that grew up in the retro era like me but moved onto more modern games, and that doesn't care about the presentation and music and visuals and gameplay that makes old fighting games a real treat?

>> No.6444871

>>6443956
yeah streets of rage 4 is basically the logical conclusion of what playing a single-player fighting game should be.

a lot of combos and characters and difficulty settings that make sense and a CPU that was tailor made for humans to play against

>> No.6445848

>>6443486
This is a problem in modern fighting games as well. Yes online play exist in modern fighters but they are always filled with people that have been playing since day 1 that will kick your ass, ragequitters, and poor netcode.

So basically the solution is still just to get friends.

>> No.6445915

>>6443486
I completely agree. My friends and I used to play this game together all the time and if you would have asked me just a few years ago I'd have said it was the best fighting game ever. But then I started playing the CPU and it's literally a third as fun. In terms of gameplay i actually prefer the last two KOF installments over it, it's way more fun when played alone at least.

>> No.6445980
File: 86 KB, 1024x1005, 1555574068518.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6445980

I've been playing the cpu for years because I have no friends and my internet is beyond fucking shitty and now I'm too afraid to play against people if I could ever

>> No.6446445

>>6445915
Yeah, it's a shame that the older SNK fighting games are amazing in every aspect, except for the infamous SNK CPU which is just not fun to play against.

I'll give KoF XV a chance when it comes out. I hope it is good and at least has cross-platform play for a big community.

>> No.6446463
File: 46 KB, 300x300, sakurai.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6446463

Learn to dual-wield control and play against yourself.

>> No.6446619
File: 35 KB, 445x391, Terry and Mary.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6446619

>>6443486
Fightcade exists.

https://www.fightcade.com/

>> No.6446968

>>6446619
>dude just get raped by spics and chinks who have been playing these games for 20 years

>> No.6447494

>>6446968
Poor Little White Boy

>> No.6447546

>>6446968
Yes? What else do you want then? If you were playing on a real arcade you would probably get beaten outside the game too.

>> No.6447891

>>6447546

not him but the problem is playing people living in a favela that have complete trash internet

>> No.6447908

>>6447891
>>6446968
Esta salada puta

>> No.6447920

>>6446968
>>6447494
>>6447546
>>6447891
You all have points.
If you complain about not wanting to play against CPU and don't have IRL friends to play with, then at least there is the online option.
But yeah, of course online you will find tryhards who already have all the meta studied down and it might not even help you grow as a player because they're so relentless.
The best way to get good at a game is to play with someone who is on your same level, and then gradually get better, both of you. If you try to play against someone who will not even let you do any move the whole match, you won't learn much. At that point you're better off just watching combo videos, as it'd be the same thing.
There's also the problem of lag and emulators, it will never be as accurate as playing on real hardware.
My suggestion for this problem is... make new friends. There is really nothing better than playing next to someone on the same couch or room, and see their IRL reaction when you wipe their ass, but still be friendly at the end, not in a tryhard tourney enviroment (unless that's your thing and you're earning money, in which case it's OK, but not everyone wants to devote that much time to a single game).
If all else fail: >>6446463

>> No.6447937

>>6447891
In my experience, Americans and Indians are way worse to play against. Absolute garbage internet speed, dial-up tier in 2020. The amount of disconnections is unreal.

>> No.6447942

>>6447908

chingate tu madre maricon

>> No.6447952

>>6447937

that's interesting, they're ok for me its usually the Brazilians and literally anyone in south america where the whole time its constant stutter

>> No.6447964

>>6447952
>>6447937
Maybe the problem is the distance? BR playing another BR won't have issue. US playing another US won't have issue.
BR playing US will have latency.

>> No.6448012

I'm all for couch multiplayer, online play and tourneytardism can go choke on a big HIV positive nigger cock for all I care, I never liked that shit, never will. Last year I hanged out with a group of collectors, played some godawful 4 player Xena on N64, Power Stone, some Wii Sports. I had a wonderful time but still felt I was paying to hang out with somebody else's friends even though most of the people in there had only met each other for a few months.

Lately I've been looking up Tool Assisted Superplays/Showcases on youtube of old fighters, it's really awesome how you can break the video down and learn from the pros. Anyone can pull off a TAS, no reaction time or execution level required.
I also love hunting achievements in these old ports, last night I played ACA Neo Geo ports on Switch, they have very accessible achievements, leaderboards and interesting modes like 5 minute Caravan mode and built-in Universe Bios-like cheats. I'm not an ACA shill I swear I just really liked the simple little extra modes they've designed.
It's weird man, I still enjoy arcade games but things have undoubtedly changed. I have absolutely no interest in going back to my local scene, I'm not one to bully people for "growing up" but hanging out with the fighter scene would feel too much like a regression. You know what they say, "you can never go back home again" I feel like that phase of my life is over. But I still enjoy the games casually and am convinced I'll never grow out of them.

>> No.6448013

>>6447964
Could be I'm in Asia but the Americans and generally Europeans I don't have problems playing. It's tolerable

>> No.6448093

>>6448012
Are the ACA Neo Geo games any good? I heard they were shit ports with less content.

>> No.6448125

>>6448093
They're no ports. It's the same old Nebula based emulator DotEmu used except it has a fancy overlay that displays your username climbing the leaderboards in real time and caravan modes. They're nothing fantastic and definitely inferior to the actual ports on Playstation 2 it's just that they cleverly labeled the 1cc run as Score Attack modes and Original mode or whatever is pretty much a sandbox that lets you do whatever you want with the game.
I'm not an ACA shill, if you want you can easily replicate their achievements and caravan on any other emulator and not give them any money, that's no sweat off my back. I just thought it was clever.

>> No.6448156

A lot of Brazilians and other 3rd worlders are playing Neo Geo fighting games in Fightcade if that's what you're after OP.

>> No.6448182

>>6446968
mabye /vr/ could start a group for fighting game newfags and we could help each other get better? I suck at fighting games lol I just figured out what the 6 button input is on street fighter and how to do some special moves.

>> No.6448190

>>6448182
Most people are too socially anxious to do that.
I've tried to challenge some people here and on /vg/ (you know, the usual guys who trash talk everyone, claiming everyone is a scrub except them), but when I dropped my fightcade ID, they never showed up.

>> No.6448243

>>6448190
i bet most people on /vr/ arent even decent at games in general, it would be comfy to start a community as a suck too but what can you do.

>> No.6448247

>>6448243
Not just /vr/, but in general. People love to talk shit, but when you actuall confront them in a meaningful way, they remain silent.

>> No.6448954

>>6443504
Oh fuck yeah, I'm getting my uni into super turbo and 3rd strike, or at least that was the plan before the place shut down. There was already a guy there who played a ton of jojo on fightcade and he was all for it.

I'm not that good at fighting games but taught myself a lot of stuff from forum posts and going to the arcade, playing street fighter 2 and KOF 2000 on a shitty early pandoras box in my mid teens. Shit was great.

Too bad I was the only person who played on those machines so only really learned to practice against AI. Plus king of fighters games where really generous when you continued encouraging you to not get better as quickly but hey.

It also meant I had kind of a crisis when choosing a stick since I'd grew up with both american bat top with an octagonal gate and japanese ball top with a square gate.

Oh playing on any sort of arcade cabinet is just so much of a better experience even if its emulation compared to just playing it on a console. I don't regret those years at all, in fact, I kind of miss them.

>> No.6449149

Why does a genre that's so disgustingly autistic when getting good also require you to have friends to play meaningfully in the first place

>> No.6449595

>>6449149
You can pick up rhythm games if you want a genre that requires autism but no friends. Especially Beatmania (DDR can kinda go social or anti-social).

>> No.6449651

>>6449149
Honestly i think people are just bad at training modes. If you can program a nice enough set of recorded inputs and cycle through them you can make very efficient bots for practice. As for winning tourneys, I mean this not as trolling in any way, no one in real life gives a shit.

>> No.6449683

>>6449651
>Honestly i think people are just bad at training modes.
Fighting game training modes are just absolutely downright trash. They're made by and for longtime fighting game players who had 20+ years to learn on their own and in the arcades, and who are incapable of ever putting themselves in the shoes of a newby player. They either don't care or don't fully understand why new people struggle with them so much. So they either just tell you to walk forward and jump and call it a day and tell you to fuck off, or dump a five hour textbook exam onto your lap and pat themselves on the back for being so useful when you just want to play the fucking game and can barely understand their fgc autism dialect.
Fighting games use their AI for nothing useful already, I don't know why they don't just incorporate story modes into the story/arcade mode like platformer boss rush or whatever, where every fight forces you to learn one specific or two specific things about the game or a specific character in order to win.

>> No.6449723

>>6449683
Just record a macro, play it back, you're not supposed to drain player2's health just practice reaction. What's there not to get even niggers can do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kan9pdlfV-w

>> No.6449731 [DELETED] 

>>6449723
Fighting games are a NIGGER and chinky chinnky jappy nip genre and you're shaming your white blood for even thinking about them

>> No.6450053

>>6449731
kys

>> No.6450063

>>6450053
Spotted the shitskin

>> No.6450068

>>6446968
Most people on fightcade have no idea what they're doing. Go into the KoF and Jojos lobby and most people aren't even playing.

>> No.6450073

>>6449731
>>6450063
>he can't do a do
LOL

>> No.6450654

>>6449731
I'm white and they're my favorite genre. It's just a lot of racist hillbillies like you can't stand the thought of losing to brown people so you have tantrums like this. The weakness is funny.

>> No.6450660

>>6447920
>The best way to get good at a game is to play with someone who is on your same level, and then gradually get better, both of you.

That's actually one of the slowest and worst ways. The best is to play someone better and learn from how they're fighting.

>> No.6451043

>>6446968
This honestly is why I never get into these older games. As a complete noob it would be impossible to find other noobs. It's pointless to go against a 10 time EVO champ level player, might as well just stick to getting raped by the cheating AI.

>> No.6451475

>>6451043
Fighting good players is the best way to get good. Being coddled might soothe your ego more, but it's far slower. Just jump into the fray. They're not doing anything you can't do back. Fight and learn. That's the whole fun of the genre.

>> No.6451489

>>6451043
And P.S. it's not the same as fighting cheating AI, because that's reading your inputs, throwing random bullshit and doing things you actually can't do (like charge moves without charging) so it's completely different.

Get so you can execute all the moves/combos with your chosen characters with ease and then learn to actually fight. You do that by playing good players, not shitty ones.

>> No.6451627

>>6451475
Playing with similarly-skilled noobs in MOBAs is good.

Playing with similarly-skilled noobs in Battle Royales is good.

Playing with similarly-skilled noobs in sports games like FIFA or Madden is good.

Playing with similarly-skilled people in KoF 2002 or KoF 98 on fightcade is impossible as a new player, and you won't learn a single thing about the game or how to improve when you get raped every which way

Fighting games just do not have the playerbase to accommodate noobs and vets besides maybe the first few months for the biggest ones. Retro fighting games certainly do not have anything remotely resembling a good experience for new players.

Retards who say

>DUDE THE BEST WAY TO LEARN A GAME IS TO SPEND 30 HOURS ON THE WIKI AND GETTING NEAR-PERFECTED BY A LAGGY COLOMBIAN, YOU LEARN SO MUCH MORE BY NOT GETTING A SINGLE MOVE IN THAN IF YOU PLAYED FELLOW NOOBS

should be ignored. The FGC is a vicious self-fulfilling prophecy of 20 year veterans of the genre bitching that there is no fresh meat, while at the same time bitching if a fighting game isn't tailor-made for autistics like themselves in an attempt by the game developer to make it more accessible and have more people playing it

>> No.6451758
File: 691 KB, 320x200, budokan 1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451758

>>6451627
I'll grant, I've been a fan of these kinds of games since before it was even really a genre so maybe my perspective is skewed. But also 30 hours is a drop in the bucket for most people really into these games, so yeah it might just not suit your interests. People don't balk at spending 60 hours playing an RPG, so I don't see it as that different. If you want to get good it takes work and practice, but to people who like these games that's not a downside, it's the appeal.

So you practice till you think you're decent cause you can cheese some AI and then you go online and die in 15 seconds to some Brazilian. That's why I say over and over that fighting AI sucks. So instead of quitting, swallow your pride and go back in. Of course you're not going to win out of the gate. Next time try to last 20 seconds and get a hit in, next time maybe you get him to 1/3rd health. Eventually you start to figure his shit out, what he's doing and what you can do back and then you get one win in five and it's amazing. That's what makes these games great.

>> No.6451838
File: 20 KB, 265x374, The_King_of_Fighters_2002_arcade_flyer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451838

How do you rate this one by comparison? I used to play it and SVC chaos a lot.

>> No.6451963

>>6451838
A great game for beginners. Easy inputs and a tiny roster but some complex mechanics under it all. Super pretty to boot which helps.

>> No.6452705

>>6451838
worse much worse than 2002 UM

>> No.6453586

>>6452705
To be fair that's the case for almost every fighter.

>> No.6455213

>>6450660
I mean, if you manage to find someone who has patience and wants to teach you, that's obviously good, but most people you could find online aren't interested in teaching or having patience, they just want to either play someone else who is already good and knows the meta, or if they fight a noob, they want to wipe the floor with him, not even letting them do a single input while they perform infinites. Which is why I said at that point you're better off just watching combo videos.
Fighting someone on your same level is the most fun anyway, and ideally both of you will grow together, and keep improving and learning stuff from reading about the game's mechanics and meta, learning and memorizing combos, and try it with your friend.
Once you're good enough, you can start trying to play against online crazy people who have mastered the meta 10+ years ago, but for someone who is just starting, going to play some veteran is just not fun for either of them, and not useful.

>> No.6455295

>>6455213
>they want to wipe the floor with him, not even letting them do a single input while they perform infinites.

If you're talking about genuine infinite combos that the player has no ability to break out of then it's a bad game anyways. Otherwise I still maintain jumping into the fire is the best.

>> No.6455306

>>6455295
I respect your opinion, I just think a total noob would probably annoy an experienced player who already has all the meta down and has for years and years, as they'll see it as a waste of time to fight someone who doesn't know even basic meta stuff, and it'll be frustrating for the noob as well.
I advocate for something more medium-leveled, play with someone who is good, but still not a total expert. That way there could be feedback both ways.

>> No.6455612

>>6455306
Ohh yes and don't get me wrong, an experienced player isn't going to keep playing a noob until he starts learning unless they know each other and something similar. I'm not talking about just finding one person to teach, rather just fighting everyone.

Also by 'noob' and even given my distaste of training modes and single player, it's true there isn't much point going online if you don't have at least a fundamental grasp of the game. You can do the specials, some combos depending on the game etc and not struggle trying to pull them off. I'll grant that is a large barrier to new players, but hardly insurmountable.

If the player is at least at that level I really do feel fighting the best players they can as often as possible is the fastest way to gaining skill. What they're doing might seem impossible at first, but none of it is.

Yet another caveat is that's only if the player is actually interested in trying to get that good. Fighting games are wonderful in they're always fun if you have two people of similar skill levels regardless how good they are. So it depends what you want out of the game.

>> No.6456134

>>6455612
>Yet another caveat is that's only if the player is actually interested in trying to get that good. Fighting games are wonderful in they're always fun if you have two people of similar skill levels regardless how good they are. So it depends what you want out of the game.

I think the issue from the get-go in the OP is that fighting games look beautiful, sound beautiful, control beautiful, and the gameplay in theory is beautiful, but your options for retro ones are to either play against a CPU on a low difficulty which offers non-existent challenge, play the CPU on a high difficulty which offers an inhumanly unfair challenge, or go on fightcade and play series and genre veterans who have all the nuances down pat and aren't there to teach, let alone provide a somewhat reasonable learning experience for a novice player. Especially when that novice player gets into fighting games for everything other than gameplay (like the great graphics, soundtrack, responsive controls, and then gameplay which comes last)

>> No.6456268

>>6443486
Use Fightcade retard.

>> No.6456274

>>6443931
>Cadillacs and Dinosaurs and Waku Waku 7
Those are better than any new arcade games in Japan though.

>> No.6457348

>>6456268
how

>> No.6457461
File: 12 KB, 380x364, 1576099906659.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6457461

2002 UM > 98 UM > 98 > 2002

>> No.6457487

>>6456268
You kinda missed the point. Reread the OP again. tl;dr though he isn't bitching about the lack of friends as much as how shit the cpus are which make the overall experience awful and borderline if not outright make the game not worth playing.

>> No.6458234

>>6457461
98 > 98 UM > 02 UM > 02