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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6439351 No.6439351 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

The music is amazing; the art design is incredible -- why so do many people hate this game? I can't relate.

>> No.6439362

Lacklustre combat system, story not as good as the predecessor, way too many playable characters.

>> No.6439373

>way too many playable characters.

I stopped playing because of this, whats the point of playing characters that dont interact with the story in any meaningful way

>> No.6439375

Chrono Cross should have been a remake of Radical Dreamers, which has a better plot and better character design besides.

>> No.6439419

Story is the sort of pseudo pretentious deep that reads of a hack writer, when it isn't busy slapping you with an environmental message so overt that even Captain Planet would blush.

>> No.6439428

You bring up artistic elements. The graphics, music and plot arent very controversial. At most, the plot is a little controversial because of what it does with CT's characters. But that's not a lot of controversy. Its fanboy nitpicking and opinions at best.

Most of the controversy comes from the game playing like shit (combat specifically), having horrendous balancing issues, being broken out of the box, doing level and stat gains ass backwards for no functional reason and being baby's first JRPG in terms of general challenge level.

They could have crammed the artistic elements into functional and basic JRPG gameplay and people would have adored it.

Dont believe me? Imagine Chrono Trigger with FFVIII's gameplay. Sucks right? Now imagine CC with CTs gameplay. Pretty awesome concept? Yep...

>> No.6439438
File: 1.25 MB, 1694x1003, ctdtps.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Never rereleased
>Chrono Trigger gets acknowledged from time to time except for this game

You cannot deny that developing this game MUST have had cause some kind of internal drama at Square.
You dont just hire the visionaries behind Dragonball, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and suddenly say youre not bringing them back for a sequel in favour of this...game.
And to go ahead and just murder them so coldy in the story in favour of Kidd and Serge is a bit backhanded too.
I thought it would have been a faithful remake of Radical Dreamers (>>6439375) after finally playing it years later but I was wrong.

I dont think its just controversial with the fans of the CT series. Anyone observant enough could definitely tell something went very wrong behind the scenes.

>> No.6439457

- combat system broke. not really a unique thing in JRPGS, but the fact that each character's turn is actually like 4 turns just amplifies the problems.
- 40ish characters, none of which have any central connection to the plot except for serge/kid
- extremely few unique abilities, so characters are mostly exchangeable
- plot dump in the last quarter of the game after a sidequest-filled first 3 quarters.
- plot is way over-engineered - time travel is inherently full of plot holes and doesn't make sense and they tried to explain everything and it doesn't work.
- all your favorite characters from CT died
- great game if you're a furry though i guess

>> No.6439460

This question has been asked and answered many times before.
The game isn't bad at all, it's just not Chrono Trigger 2 like fans were expecting.

Not only that but Square did a 180 turn with the game's general direction and went from a simple, kid-friendly, easy game to some hardcore shit with advanced combat mechanics and a convoluted plot.

Square did another 180 turn with the cast of characters and instead of a few characters with an interesting background like in CT, they introduced a bazillion of new characters with a barebone back story and little to no link to the plot.

It's a pretty good game with fantastic music and art direction but it feels completely detached from Chrono Trigger.

>> No.6439465

based dalton
hail to the king

>> No.6439948

I agree there was definitely a lot of tension during development of both games, and Chrono trigger was Miracle to get finished.

But come on with this:
>To go ahead and just murder them so coldly in the story in favour of Kidd and Serge
Serge is DEAD!
You spend a huge portion of the game exploring a world where everyone treats you like a ghost because you've been dead for 10 years. Yes, that was the Universe B version of Serge, but the same thing is true for Crono and all the others. That's the whole theme of the game: "Your universe might suck, but if you don't pull through and keep fighting the good universes will get destroyed too." You see whole races of people get wiped out, but then you go to the other universe and they're just fine.

Yeah, the Chronopolis you go to in the game fucking sucks. It's the one Lavos deliberately chose to pull it in order to revive himself, of course he's going to pull it from a shitty future where Rob gets shafted.

>> No.6439979

>>way too many playable characters.
Who fucking cares? You don't have to use or recruit the party members you don't care about. Yes some of them don't contribute much to the main plot but characters like Karsh and Nikki still get character development, arguably more than literally any character in Chrono Trigger. This by far the worst complaint anyone has against this game.
>Ohhhh nooo there's so many characters, this is somehow ruining the experience for meeee!
For fuck's sake...

>> No.6439983

It's a good game, just a fucking terrible sequel.

>> No.6439986

The main problem that we all know is that the main story and events of the game are completely incomprehensible and seem completely random to the vast majority of players. It takes headcannon the length of a light novel for people to explain wtf happened and try to convince themselves and others why it is good. The story, events and characters in the game are for more people not understandable and not enjoyable. They completely failed at connecting with an audience.

>> No.6439991

We get, Chrono Cross is the only RPG you ever played.

>> No.6440006

I actually like the Combat system, though I can understand why people prefer Triggers. To explain why I actually think it's a good system I'll highlight some of it's strong points.

Elements are all useful to have based on the fact that everything has an innate color and therefore everything has an exploitable weakness, on top of this, the game also encourages the player to strategically decide when to use elements and what kinds to use because it functions more like single use cards per battle. You have an interesting deck building mechanic for elements, and since you can only use an element once per battle, it stops the player from being able to spam spells. On top of this, you also have to build up the tiers of magic you can actually use in battle via attack your enemies. So this means the player must always use a mix of physical and magic attacks during battle.
On top of this, there's the color field mechanic which is great because it makes you pay attention to what color the elements that not only you are using but your enemies, this makes it so the player can try to work for having the field be all one color or against the enemy having the field be all one color.
There are a few other mechanics but I feel like all of the battle system compliments each other very nicely and comes out in what would be an engaging, fun, and simple system. The only problem is that the game, aside from a few bosses, is too easy to really pay attention to any of these mechanics.

>> No.6440008

I've played tons of RPGs, Chrono Cross isn't even my favorite JRPG, that would be Parasite Eve. I just hate when people parrot such a stupid criticism about Chrono Cross.

>> No.6440018

It's a clusterfuck of a game, but I still find it funny how people know from the very beginning Serge is Dead in one world and a Alive in another, but then they think that there's only one Crono, and he's dead, even though you fight a guy who looks just like Crono and has all of Cronos attacks, and named his fucking daughter after Leene's bell.

They may have never remade Chrono Cross, but every remake of Chrono trigger has taken extra steps to fucking try to make that concept a bit clearer, to the point where the DS game has that extra ending with Magus and Magus talking with each other before one of them fights lavos alone and becomes Guile.

>> No.6440020

are you ESL or just retarded?

>> No.6440025

It effectively undermines everything Chrono Trigger accomplished, shits on the endings of the original as well as kills off basically every character but Schala, Dalton and Magus (technically), and turns into an absolute convoluted mess that requires multiple large plot dumps in the endgame to make sense of it all. For all of its qualities, as a JRPG it's alright if too full of itself, but as a sequel it's absolutely nothing of what any Trigger fan wanted and practically seems to spite them in the process. The worst part of it all is that while it was going to be the same world and universe and all the whole time, it wasn't even meant to be a direct sequel to Trigger, but Squaresoft pushed for it, and we got the middle finger.

If you enjoy it, hey, that's your thing, but it's controversial as a sequel rather than by itself.

>> No.6440027

Has anyone beaten this game? Felt like an eternity to slog through

>> No.6440035

Really? I thought that game wasn't that long, the only part where it felt really slow was when the game basically said
>lmao go fight the dragons on a bunch of islands you've been to

>> No.6440058

The problem is it feels like quantity over quality. Very few characters have any relevance to the plot once they're recruited and basically, once they are recruited, if they were relevant, then their story is basically over. Every character is basically like Magus on CT. He is irrelevant to the plot after the Ocean Palace and it doesn't matter whether you kill him, ignore him, or recruit him.

>> No.6440062

I think that's not really a Chrono Cross problem, more like a PS1 problem. After beating FFV I wanted to play Chrono Cross but the difference in overal pacing is really big, mostly because walking feels much slower and a lot more time is spent animating battles. In its defense, it probably has less frequent battles.

>> No.6440083


>> No.6440142
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That's my jam

>> No.6440146

I'm sorry you were born deaf.

>> No.6440196
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Personally I prefer the Boss Battle theme

>> No.6440205
File: 51 KB, 310x650, Zoah.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm fine with it honestly, there's a ton of JRPGs with a small amount of party members but they end up contributing little to the story or are very interesting. Chrono Cross throws all that to the wind and basically lets you pick the coolest looking dudes and roll with it. No sappy nonsense

>> No.6440232

It wasn't Chrono Trigger 2
People expected Chrono Trigger 3D. More time travel! Combos! Epic battles! And we got Cross

>> No.6440253

Those are the same thing, anon

>> No.6440263

The answer is your own post: you didn't talk about gameplay or story. The first is non-existent, the 2nd one is terrible.

>> No.6440278

This is one of maybe 4 games where I label its defenders: "Contrarians". There's no good faith argument about this game being good. No way to possibly spin it. No way for me to walk in your moccasins. Bad as a sequel. Bad as a spinoff. Bad as a stand alone game.
Like Frued says, "Sometimes a franchise killer is just a franchise killer".

>> No.6440279

It's not controversial, it's just not very good

Just listen to the OST on youtube or something and you'll have experienced everything worthwhile about the game

>> No.6440582

killed the chrono franchise,
no new game in the series in almost 20 years!
remember chrono break!
this crap killet it, and there's people that still defend this crap lol ;')

>> No.6440587

Bad story, bad gameplay, bad characters, good graphics, good music.
Pretty much the opposite of Chrono Trigger aesthetically, so shouldn't have been connected to it. If you call yourself a sequel, you must be a sequel. When I want a shitty faux-esoteric late 90s JRPG, I buy a shitty 90s faux-esoteric JRPG, not a supposed Chrono Trigger sequel.

>> No.6440594

It's not this.

>> No.6440617

Just posting to remind everyone that Chrono Cross isn't canon.

>> No.6440624

>It's not a 3d remake of the first game
Yes? And?...

>> No.6440626

People hate Chrono Cross and that's why.

>> No.6440631

That's a shame. I love Chrono Cross. Sucks that they couldn't enjoy it.

>> No.6440634

It's a pity, yes.

>> No.6440636

Masato Kato is a horrid fucking hack. He is very bad at everything he's ever tried to do. I think that explains everything. The more control he has, the worse the resulting game.

>> No.6440642

The game should have been called "Legend Of Eternal Dragons" or some shit and then it coul've rested in peace. It did not need the negative attention of people with good taste.

>> No.6440920

People took it as a sequel to CT, but they never meant it to be one.

>> No.6441146


Because people were expecting Chrono Trigger 2. Instead we got new characters set in a new land with very vague, cryptic references to the first game. Also the fact that Crono, Marle, and Lucca (the same people who killed Lavos) were killed off screen before the game even began by random Porre troops was pretty lame.

>> No.6441167
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but how did he manage to wrestle absolute control over the franchise? how come Square gave him the full reigns? Atleast during Radical Dreamers, they didnt soley write the entire plot. They had several peope helping out with it and it resulted in a really engaging visual novel.

Chrono Cross suffered in story because Kato was the only one who wrote it, as far as I know.

You would think he would at least hire Toriyama and the rest of them if he wanted to have a go at it. Even Square could benefit by at least keeping in contact with the old order.
I just wonder why they let him act like such a fucking stuckup asshole. Outside of the story, CC itself even feels like an unfinished prototype. And I got a lot of bad vibes from the whole game before even arriving at the plot dump towards the end.
All of the visuals, while really beautiful, have a really cold feeling behind them. Its kind of hard to describe why.

>> No.6442728

It harmed people's childhood beloved characters and showed them the harsh reality of the world.

>> No.6442746

because it has the "chrono" word on it.
I like it, is incredible flawed but is short and fun enough.

>> No.6443404

It's stupid because a huge chunk of the characters feel undeveloped as a result. Like there are very few dual and triple tecs as a result. I don't even think all of them have their third ability or whatever it was.
Interesting idea but questionable execution. Also the game is LOADED with plot dumps all over the place.

>> No.6443410

I somehow beat it with a hardmode hack. It made the combat more fun at least.

>> No.6443904

Possibly because it was the sequel to one of the most acclaimed jrpgs ever made, and it killed off the main characters from that game and made them into sad child ghost NPCs.

>> No.6443912

style over substance

>> No.6443916

Chrono Trigger is a sacred cow, that's all. That and people don't like the large number of playable characters, but personally I always considered that more of a gameplay variety thing than a story thing.

>> No.6443926

>Like there are very few dual and triple tecs as a result.
Fixing this would've provided a reason to seek out different characters for unique party compositions, and would've made the game substantially better. I love the game, but I never liked the element system. It's way too shallow and inconsequential.

>> No.6443972

Based on what I've heard, making Trigger was so stressful no one wanted to step up to the plate and assume control to get Cross out the door (this was before every fucking corporation was run via committee). This left a power vacuum which Kato stepped in to fill.

>> No.6444184


Retard opinions. Combat system is light years ahead of most jrpgs of the era.

>> No.6444198
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CC did nothing wrong, and is and aways will be one of the best RPGS of ALL eras, contrarians and people that can't taste art plague this board so their opinions simply doesn't matter.

Game starts with an opening that can still give me goosegumps. Never saw a montage in a game that could affect me that much.

>> No.6444201

I wouldn't go that far. I felt it was serviceable but worse than Trigger.

>> No.6444205

It is a nice bimbo of a game. Really pretty, but dumb as shit and only gets dumber when it tries to talk smart.

>> No.6444206


>> No.6444241

>Combat system is light years ahead of most jrpgs of the era.
Not really. It's confusing at first and while the whole element thing is an interesting idea, in practice it's usually too much of a pain to bother without outside of a couple of fights. (You know which one I mean, a certain holy user) Like why bother with the summons when most of the time it's just not worth it?

>> No.6444264

>way too many playable characters
Not really. Suikoden has way more playable characters and is a better game.

>> No.6444278

>why bother with the summons
Because they do a shit ton of damage against bosses, and against normal enemies you need the shit they drop when killed by a summon.

>> No.6444294

The combat system is meaningless. All you have to do is attack1, attack1, attack3, repeat

throughout the entire game minus one boss

I know
>press attack on win
is a jrpg meme but in this case of CC it's actually more true than in any others

>> No.6444296

>but how did he manage to wrestle absolute control over the franchise?
The franchise was dead.

>> No.6444297

>All you have to do is attack1, attack1, attack3, repeat
>not doing attack3, attack3, high level element.

>> No.6444486
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>> No.6444698

What am I looking at here

>> No.6444891
File: 161 KB, 800x272, Arni.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The setting, art, music and atmosphere are 10/10 and still haven't been topped.
That being said, the story and gameplay are pretty lackluster despite some neat ideas. I'd say that makes it objectively a worse game than Trigger, but I still prefer it.
As soon as I hear any of the field themes or see art of the towns I'm instantly transported back to my first time playing the game.

>> No.6445070

despite the amazing music i couldnt get into it. the 3d graphics are an eyesore. plebstation sucks hard for 3d games.

>> No.6445153

The absloute state of /vr/. Thats why you can't take opinions seriously about rpg on this board. Please consider to sacrifice yourself to coronachan

>> No.6445156

Cringe and weakpilled DYEL?

Based stronggainspilled

>> No.6445157

Gay frog

>> No.6445162

Why do you talk like an asshole?

>> No.6445173

Weak tie-in with the original game. This angered fans that wanted a true sequel. Should've been it's own thing with no connection to the original.

>> No.6445193

>This angered fans that wanted a true sequel.
I never wanted a sequel, period. Chrono Trigger just felt fine as a one-and-done story.

>> No.6445194
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*Blocks your path*

>> No.6445248
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Except for a few story elements is has fuck-all to do with its predecessor. Made by a completely different team, on different hardware. I think if it had a different name it might have a better reputation.

>> No.6445268
File: 479 KB, 700x700, Razzly.(Chrono.Cross).full.428188.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Trigger = Rick & Morty
Cross = Princess Tutu

>> No.6445320

i like it for its ambition, but even i have to admit it's quite the clusterfuck in its execution.
as much as i dislike the original CT, i have to admit that, at the very least, the game flows beginning to end fairly naturally. not so with CC

>> No.6445347

Apparently Masato Kato felt differently. Which is fine: Radical Dreamers was enough. We didn't need this clusterfuck too.

>> No.6445361

Chrono et al were not 'murdered' per se. As per the story of both games, when you alter history, you alter time, creating other 'worlds.' In CC's world, they're dead, yes. The bigger error Square (or Squeenix, idk) made was trying to reconcile the two by retconning CC plot points into CT when the were in agreement already by sheer fact that CC took place in a separate timeline. They didn't need to add the fall of Guardia, the invasion of Porre etc into CT to do that. Doing so fucked CT for the worse, not that I liked CT much to begin with.

What about >>6445320? Is that reasonable or contrarian, IYO?

>> No.6445370

dumb frogposter

>> No.6445372

to be fair, all the characters don't really add much gameplay variety since they all play pretty much identically to one another

>> No.6445540

I really like Cross but not how it trampled all over the happily-ever-after for the Trigger characters. My personal head cannon for Cross is that it was a hiccup in the universe caused by the time traveling in Trigger and Cross fixes it to the point that Cross never happened.

>> No.6445712

>Now imagine CC with CTs gameplay. Pretty awesome concept? Yep...

Sooo overly easy and with a shallow, convoluted, and cluttered story? Sounds not so great.

>> No.6445720


Dude was right though. Chrono Cross has a strong soundtrack and SOME good graphics (menus, friendly characters, and enemies generally look ugly, which is a pretty big deal). And it kinda sucked in most other respects. Suikoden did a much better job than that.

>> No.6445745

>Who fucking cares? You don't have to use or recruit the party members you don't care about.

They are noise. They add extra crap that shouldn't be there. Those characters deserve zero dialogue, but they all talk. Some of them talk a lot. Some of them talk especially annoyingly-CHA. Most of them come with at least brief cutscenes dedicated to them. Some of them have whimsical and lengthy quests attached to them. It's all just noise and it distracts. The game would be better if it presented a few main characters (Serge Kid Harle etc.) and made everybody else mechanics-only characters. You'd recruit them and see their faces and names and maybe a one-line blurb of description for each one... and nothing else. They'd fight for you but always under the command of the main important characters who would always be present (albeit maybe only in the background) to participate in story-driving cutscenes.

Alternatively - the developers could have made every character interesting and likable. But that would probably have been too hard because there are so many of them. The minimal approach would have been much more practical. But either way would be fine. Make them good characters or make them mere hints at good characters that your imagination can fill in. It's so simple. Making them weak characters whose shallowness you can't look past weakens the setting and pointlessly eats up time. You take away crap like that to make your art better. That's how it works.

>> No.6445823

Suikoden 2 is 100% better than cross.

>> No.6445839

or alternatively the game just focused on making all these extra characters temporary for whatever arc and thing you go through, because once you're done with everyone but the handful of mains, they are never relevant again besides random dialogue tangentially tossed in at specific points depending on who's in the third slot. it says a lot how pointlessly bad and excessive the large number of recruitable party members are.

>> No.6445997

A lot of the Trigger connections would have been easier for the fans to accept if they said Cross took place in the new 2300 AD. Guardia falling, Masamune being lost loses the sting because you can just assume it's the long march of time that did them in. You can say Lucca retired to the future as an old lady to explain why a fire mage who defeated a cosmic itialian managed to burn to death.
But was anyone expecting the old characters to come up at all? Nobody expects that from any other Square series.

>> No.6446006
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Agreed, there were way too many characters that honestly contributed nothing to the story.
and a ton of others don't add shit to the story.

Honestly there should have been a centralized cast of a few characters that should have grew as the story progressed.
>serge, kid
for obvious reasons
He's tied to the plot involved the dragoons, his father, his brother, and Masamune. Make him the descendant of the previous game's Glennand have him trying to restore Guardia to it's former glory
Actually make him Magus as originally
Cut the bullshit altogether and make her Lucca going under another alias in order to figure out the inner workings of the Acacia Dragoons and acquire the the secrets of the Fort Dragonia.

Another world's Fargo was a major player in the story and have him involved in reuniting humans and demis
>Draggy/pip/neofeo/or starky

Ties to the dragon gods, Lucca, or starky one should be sufficient.

Kinda seems shitty to lose a party member like that, maybe she has a change of heart near the end.

Everyone else would have been fine as NPCs making the world richer for side missions.

>> No.6446041

>Lacklustre combat system
Turnbase, same as any.
>story not as good as the predecessor
I liked is way more, trigger was so boring I never finished it. Always stopped shortly after "break the crystal" or something like that. Loved how mysterious Cross was.
>way too many playable characters
Variety is a good thing.

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

>> No.6446050


>A lot of the Trigger connections would have been easier for the fans to accept if they said Cross took place in the new 2300 AD.

Agreed, 20 years was stretch for almost everything being forgotten so easily. I really doubt Guardia would have fallen that easily too. Truth be told I would have enjoyed a futuristic sequel like this.
>But was anyone expecting the old characters to come up at all? Nobody expects that from any other Square series.

Before the merge
>cloud appeared in FF tactics, and chocobo racing along with that one fighting game
>Same Gilgamesh from 5 appeared in 8
>Pretty sure that Mog from 6 is the one in chocobo dungeon
After the merge
>FF X-2
>Montblonc in XII
>xii revenant wings
>World of FF

>but square-now Torneko Taloon and Morrie make a couple of guest appearances in other dragon quests.

>Ultros, Omega, Gilgamesh and Typhoon appeared in XIII arena

>> No.6446053

>you can only use your techs and elements from the grid once per battle besides a very specific ability for refreshing them, and you have to work up the stamina to be able to use them in the first place
>enemies spam whatever they want until the cows come home

>> No.6446059

What's wrong with the battle system? Not trying to troll or something. The thing is I'm not a jRPG fan but Chrono series seemed fun and engaging when I tried it so I completed both chapters. CC's color system and absence of random battles felt really good.

>> No.6446394

The best worst example of a nothing character is Janice, who joins the party for no reason other than to join the party, has no relevant other NPCs that acknowledge her at all, and her final tech is just 'oh you'd have to think to swap her to the party's lead and talk to this random weird thing late enough in the game at this unmarked location at your map"

>> No.6446482
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>Noooo! You can't just have recruitable party members just for fun because they don't contribute to the main plot!

They don't have to, they're optional funny looking colorful characters that make me smile and I'll bring them along to see they're weird speech pattern variants.

>> No.6446693

My only complaint is not making Magus explicitly part of the story since it was HIS fucking quest to save his god damn sister and he doesn't even do it.

>> No.6446815

yeash, I thought it was Turnip or Irenes.
Neither did jack shit in the story.
>to this random weird thing late enough in the game at this unmarked location at your map"

I don't get why they changed Gaspar changing spekkio is w/e as he is always changing forms. That was supposed to be the end of time.
because it actually took away from developing centralized characters, Guile was originally going to be magus, but that was done away with because there were so many characters.

>> No.6446825

I'll grant you Turnip, but the game at least makes a joke about him being pointless. Irenes has some vague connections to Marbules and interacts with other characters.

>> No.6446859

The music and graphics were nice but everything else was barebones as fuck. Only a handful of characters had any development or plot relevance, the rest may as well have been random NPCs, and the battle system is as exciting as watching paint dry.

>> No.6446905

I mean that would have just been fine as a background NPC that gave some extra dialogue to Fargo

>> No.6447165 [DELETED] 
File: 49 KB, 340x500, ct-tata.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

let me put it for you this way.
What if in chrono trigger, instead more about frog, his past and vendetta against Magus, we recrutied Toma, Tata and Fioana and had no build up to magus whatsoever, the improtance of the masamune is staved off and we just had to sneak into Magus castle just because.

That would suck right?

>> No.6447181
File: 288 KB, 1275x2100, arf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


let me put it for you this way.
What if in chrono trigger, instead more about frog, his past and vendetta against Magus, we recrutied Toma, Tata and Fioana and had no build up to magus whatsoever, the improtance of the masamune is staved off and we just had to sneak into Magus castle just because.
That would suck right?
He was going to be included, but there were time constraints and it
was cut, hence why having having so many characters was bullshit.

It was corrected in the DS chrono trigger though
I think that was kinda implied with the ending.

>> No.6447186

No experience system, it's less of an RPG and more of an adventure game with combat and a magic system

>> No.6447194

>Only a handful of characters had any development or plot relevance
How many party members do jrpgs usually have? Oh a handful? Okay then.

>> No.6447195

That's actually one of the things I really liked about it. JRPGs tend to be very linear in character progression anyway, Cross cuts out the middle man and now the power of your party is tied to how many stars you have, stars which are obtained from bosses and continue to increase even into NG+. What this does is completely remove any incentive to grind, however it doesn't make fighting battle pointless since there are incremental stat boosts obtained from battles(which would be akin to leveling up but it's more a bonus, you never have to rely on it) and the potential to gain elements and materials.

Basically it does what FF8 does, another JRPG where actually trying to fight everything isn't necessary, except way better.

>> No.6447419

Exactly. Less is more.

>> No.6447541

>"Legend Of Eternal Dragons"
That's a lame title. What about these: "Records of Fate", "Frozen Flame", "Remember That Day", "El Nido".

>> No.6447630

A Record of Forty-five Assholes and Time's Enmity or A Record of FATE for short.

>> No.6447836
File: 35 KB, 399x294, 13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Only a handful of characters had any development or plot relevance

Despite having about 3x more characters, the Suikoden series is better in this regard because most of them have their relevance and even if not developed as characters they all have their uses and justification as army members or adding castle facilities. A war is usually a large scale event that allows for the common alignment of such diverse characters.
Of course the 108 stars of destiny is the whole point of the game so it's expected to have a better structure, and even then a few characters feel like they're throwaways.
In a game like Cross, focused mostly on a plot thread with a few core characters, it's a bit more difficult to justify the bloated roster.

tl;dr Cross large roster could work but in a (apparently) larger scale conflict

>> No.6448479

Is Kato autistic? I can't imagine people cared all that much what happened to princess Shala.

>> No.6448574

Based ZOAH poster. Let's purge this board of suikoshills and the like

>> No.6448583

By revelance he means a meaningless one liner. Suikoden was ok, suikoshit 2 was only good in the first voyage witht eh gypsies, after that it was a downhill trip to shitville. Xenogear tier of garbage game.

>> No.6448592

I think he's just terribly lonely, like most Japanese men. Schala is his waifu.

>> No.6448616

It was literally the only unresolved plot point they had left. It pretty much had to be about her.

>> No.6448649

>Cross fixes it to the point that Cross never happened.
that's literally what happens, by saving schala none of the events of CC happened and Kid/Schala gets to have a normal life with Lucca.

>> No.6449081
File: 29 KB, 479x359, CronoTrosser.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


This is a huge factor in Cross's reception and legacy, and not particularly uncommon in gaming. Zelda 2, Castlevania 2, Majora's Mask and Metroid Prime are all (or were) controversial games for the same reason Cross is: It's a sequel to a massive hit that is in no way the successor (in terms of gameplay) to that hit which came before it. Regardless of the actual quality of product it lends to (which obviously varies widely), the massive differentiation from the source material in itself is going to be a handicap to positive popular (though perhaps not critical) reception. Also take into account Trigger's special status: not only is it a classic, it's one of those high-charm JRPGs like Grandia or Skies of Arcadia that seems to emotionally touch and connect with people in such a way that it earns a special place in their hearts until they die (ie "Soul"). This naturally compounds the aforementioned effects of such differentiation in a sequel, a great deal.

If anyone tries to tell you they don't like Chrono Cross, well...they probably don't like Chrono Cross and that's totally understandable, it's certainly far from perfect. On the other hand, if they try to tell you it's an objectively bad game, they either don't know what a "bad game" is, or they're being blinded by their over-the-top sentimentality for Trigger.

>> No.6449093
File: 62 KB, 1024x768, Metroid-Prime-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Thanks for reminding me of Echoes. It taught me a valuable lesson about overhyping myself for a game. Prime 1 was so goddamn good, how could Echoes not be a masterpiece?
It wasn't a bad game, but nowhere as amazing as the previous entry.

>> No.6449117

>not liking Suikoden 2
Be careful with that edge. You'll hurt yourself.

>> No.6449137

Skies of Arcadia is absolutely horrible. I bought it when it was released back in the day and regretted my purchase day-of. It's just... bad. Babby's first jRPG.

>> No.6449258

What did the Japanese audience think of Cross?

>> No.6449295

This never fucking bothered me or the billions and billions and billions of people who played Pokemon.

Like it's a videogame. Part of the videogame is the gameplay. And it was fun to recruite a large amount of characters for me because their minor stories like Skeley and his grandma, character, or designs and attacks/animations/ etc....literally the same as Pokemon and monster collecting games for me. I like Digimon and SMT a lot too.

>> No.6449303

Then why did everyone like Final Fantasy 7 so much if this was really an issus

>> No.6449316

It reminds me of Wind Waker too but Inguess you were just listing retro games. Final Fantasy 8 as well.

>> No.6449324

>I lack the empathy and social understanding to conceive of the possibility a writer cares about a cliffhanger in a story he wrote, surey the writer is the autistic one and not me

>> No.6449325

Yeah but none of them are an ayylmaos with agiant Japanese robot so fuck you

>> No.6449336

>the billions and billions and billions of people who played Pokemon.
lmao this is such a fucking shit comparison

>> No.6449361

Youre right but they DID give it a different name. It's called Chrono CROSS not Chrono Trigger 2. It should've been called Radical Dreamers but if people werent stupid and overly hyped they wouldn't have had to. Naming it Chrono Cross perfectly conveys how it's not going to be 100% like the original and different

>> No.6449373

I never realized how intelligent and how much I understood art until I started playing divisive games and realized I had the correct opinion on every single one of them. And that the only reason people hate them is because theyre fucking stupid absolute brainlets.

>> No.6449380

Tell me how comparing your party members in two turn bases role playing games is a shit comparison.

They're literally all just party members.

Peoppe who only care about the story go read a fucking book let me capture cute monsters.

>> No.6449394

Well I can tell you that you have a fat ego. Not sure how smart you are though.

>> No.6449405
File: 94 KB, 493x410, 1570433682587.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

No I dont. I'm a dumbass. But I'm still smarter than most people. That's what makes everyone such giant fucking morons.

>> No.6449437

Because those are the only two good things about it.

Masato Kato was the only returning bigwig from Trigger and that asshole hated the fact the previous game about time travel had time travel in it. Doesn't bode well for the game he was in charge of, now does it?

Fans of CT hate this game because Cross takes a rotten green shit on the themes and messages of its predecessor, retcons or outright lies about events of the first game, kills off the entire cast of CT while it's at it (even Johnny. Johny!!! WTF is wrong with you?!) all the while doing a stupid song and dance about how much humanity fucking sucks and you the player are forced to be complicit in it from the start where you have no choice but to go around murdering lizards to make a goddamn necklace out of their scales (fuck the rest of the corpses I guess?) The dwarves blaming humans on ruining their home as they all load into some murder tanks and kill another race for *their* land was especially hollow and odious in trying to force it's goddamn themes.

Fans of good gameplay/game structure hate Cross because while the color grid and Xenogears like combat isn't terrible, there are 40 something fucking characters in this game. And your party only has 3 spots. You can only add 2 to the party since Serge or Lynx always take the first slot and THAT'S IT. Only three of the PCs can even steal items (one is a plot centric character, one is an optional character and one is thankfully mandatory) so in order to get the best gear fuck you, you only have one real slot for a party member of your choice.

There are too many fucking characters. CT had 7 and a bajillion combo moves and triple techs to spice up the gameplay. You have to specifically turn down the best character in the game to get a fucking triple tech later on. Not to mention even if you try to view CC's plot as a stand alone, that many characters completely wrecks any attachment when none of them have last weight to the story.

>> No.6449448

You could have just done a light novel or a short story with a CT collectors addition, Kato. You didn't need to hijack a Final Fantasy prototype and tape Radical Dreamers onto it.

>> No.6449568

Another important thing we should point out is that all of those games you compared Cross to have long since had more traditional sequels made. People tend to be more forgiving of a sequel going off the rails if a more familiar game comes along. Thing is, Cross was the end. We never got a Chrono 3.

>> No.6449582
File: 155 KB, 730x524, Gymnothorax_flavimarginatus_by_Jaroslaw_Barski.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

A cosmic italian?

>> No.6449645

You know I once heard a rumor he did some uncredited work on Final Fantasy 8's storyline too? I mean, it's probable Nintendo's Uncle-tier nonsense, but wouldn't that just be the biggest shit in your lasagna if it were true?

>> No.6449738

>he did some uncredited work on Final Fantasy 8's storyline too
Would explain why FF8 is a huge shit show

>> No.6449760

Pip reminds me of so much wrong with the game
>can fucking glitch out his element grid growth if the player doesn't evolve him at the perfect time
>designers noted that the only concept they had for him was "he could crawl into a small space or something" during the game
>doesn't even do that much
>only does this for a single magic for one of his three final forms that you might not even get anyway

>> No.6450903
File: 83 KB, 287x445, Kid RD vs CC.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Chrono trigger was based
Radical dreamers was based
Chrono cross was based

And Kid is my waifu.
That's all.

>> No.6451216

Chrono Cross wasnt a sequel. It was a side story / gaiden.

>> No.6451401

>the whole point of the story is about how Balthasar pulled a keikaku dori across time and space to save Schala which is the one unresolved plot point of trigger.
It's a sequel anon. Even if you might not like it. Some sequels shit on the spirit of the original and it's best to ignore but they are sequels.
chrono cross is a good sequel btw, even thematically

>> No.6451442

*Uses red elemental attack*

>> No.6451754

Again. It's not. Masato Kato was in charge of Cross and he hates Trigger, and seemed to really take out some aggression on CT's themes and ideas, threw retcon after retcon at the plot if not outright lying about shit that happened in CT, and killed CT's cast. It was apparently more fucking important to have 40 some odd characters,half of whom had no bearing on the plot *whatsoever* than to remember to actually/officially include Magus in the story about rescuing his damn sister.

That's not the basis of a faithful sequel by any stretch, nor is it really made in good faith, either. It's downright spiteful.

>> No.6451770
File: 246 KB, 512x448, in turn love and hate were born, only time will see how it will end.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Masato was in charge of Cross and hate trigger
[citation needed]

What is true however, is that Kato came up with the Zeal scenario and he's the one who wrote it You know? The one thing that elevates trigger from a happy-simple time travel adventure to something bigger and really memorable.

What are the themes of trigger? Beyond "U CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE"?

The theme is that one being always strive to dominate another for its survival
Reptiles vs Humans
Zeal vs Earthbounds
Humans vs Mystics
Robots vs Humans
Lavos vs the entire fucking planet

And guess what? It's said in the final battle of trigger that Lavos secretely directed the course of human evolution. The themes of cross were always in trigger. The dreamstone is even a prototype for the frozen flame if you remember that one NPC in Zeal.
CC is much bleaker but it ends on a hopeful note, like trigger. Remember Schala's speech at the end. It's literally that

>> No.6451780

Note that I also agree with you.
Too many characters and Magus should have been in the game.

But I cannot accept people lying and say that Chrono Cross is thematically different from trigger. It only is if you ignore Zeal, and Zeal dominates the game

>> No.6451785

>Masato Kato was in charge of Cross and he hates Trigger
I wouldn't go quite that far, but it's obvious that he got swept up in the general bad vibes Trigger began emitting at some point in its development process. You'll notice he seems pretty tightly walled-off to his own section of the story: 12,000 BC and related characters, no more input required, thank you! At one point if I remember correctly a piece of Trigger he implicitly wrote low-key retcons Horii's "grandfather paradox" involving Marle at the beginning of the game. I think from that alone you can glean some turf-warring was taking place.

>> No.6451790

To me, Schala simply died in the Ocean Palace, in the tradition of the pure maiden who sacrifices herself for the heroes' victory. She does nothing to warrant any further relevance afterwards, and claims otherwise is the result of retcons.

And the part of the ending with Magus means nothing to me since he never actually responds to Marle's single-sentence assumption that he's going back to look for her.

>> No.6451812

Can you say more? I'm genuinely interested in trigger/cross genesis...
Are you implying he fought for the full reign of the story or tried to make it his "thing" ?
But zeal seems forshadowed pretty early in the game

>> No.6451817

Magus wouldn't let his big sis die like that though?
The entire point of his bowing down to Ozzie and co was so he could kill lavos/save schala in the first place, no?

>> No.6451827

He wasn't ever expecting to get a second chance to save her. The best he could do at the time was kill Lavos to make her sacrifice not be in vain.

>> No.6451878


The themes you outline feel hollow when comparing CT to CC, especially with the further focus of Man v. Nature theme in Cross. The most egregious example is the dwarves screaming that it's the humans fault *they're* driving around in murder tanks killing the fairies for their homeland that I can think of. Also, I will NOT back away from saying Cross lies and retcons so much shit it feels disrespectful to the original plot and not simply doing a bleaker take on the main theme of the future being able to be changed.

>Masamune is a cursed bloodthirsty weapon responsible for numerous NPC deaths and turmoil when in the first game the spirits of the sword literally fuse into a big giant monster to keep the sword from being missused.

>Dalton. Goddamn fucking Dalton despite having no explanation for it is able to time travel without the Epoch or a gate to modern day Porre, turn it into a military powerhouse and steamroll Guardia and kill Crono and Marle or at least write them out of the story for good.

>The Dragons/Reptites/whatever you want to call them. They act like such fucking Pariahs in Cross and the narrative *barely* implies anything but them being victims of evolution and Lavos' effects on the planet when they were goddamn tyrants that treated the enviorment just as shittily as humans. Yeah they pull a "Ah HA! Gotcha Monkey!!!" near the end and they have to be stopped, but through the end game it just felt so annoying the way they still bemoaned their fate after being beaten when the Reptiles depicted in CT were practically the Skeksis from Dark Crystal.

At least to me it really felt like the overall narrative was trying to force me to feel sorry for them. Maybe it was a botched attempt to paint the picture with more gray moral situations and not make it so stark compared to Evil Dinosaurs living in Volcano Castles as shown in CT, but it still bugged me with its presentation.

>> No.6452380

because players project themselves onto Cloud who suffers from autism and has multiple bitches thirsting for his cock

>> No.6452786
File: 2.17 MB, 3960x1612, Chrono Cross wall of exposition.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Sooo overly easy and with a shallow, convoluted, and cluttered story?
But, that's what you got? But you love Cross, supposedly. Why?

>> No.6452826
File: 7 KB, 250x153, Timeshatter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Absolutely a true and important point I didn't consider in my post. Oftentimes the third game (or whichever comes directly after the black sheep) is a return to form and hailed by fans as the greatest in the series; Link to the Past and Curse of Dracula being easier examples. Could easily see this changing perceptions of a game like Cross from "bastard son bullshit" to "misunderstood black sheep" in the minds of those to whom such a thing is important.

I could imagine that if Chrono Break had come out, been a return to the Trigger formula and hands-down the JRPG of the generation, a lot of people who hold against Cross this idea that it "ruined the Chrono name" would probably chill the fuck out.

>> No.6452849

>>Masamune is a cursed bloodthirsty weapon responsible for numerous NPC deaths and turmoil when in the first game the spirits of the sword literally fuse into a big giant monster to keep the sword from being missused.
Those spirits are still there. You literally see them when Surge does his limit break with the purified Masamune.

>> No.6452860



>It is getting to the point where RPG games are beginning to resemble each other way too much. Do you think it is getting harder to be innovative when developing a game for this genre? What steps do you take to ensure that you're not just rehashing the same thing over and over?

>To say the least, the titles we've worked on have been innovative, and I would like to continue this trend for our future projects. When creating a series, one method is to carry over a basic system, improving upon it as the series progresses, but our stance has been to create a completely new and different world from the ground up, and to restructure the former style.

>Therefore, Chrono Cross is not a sequel to Chrono Trigger. Had it been, it would have been called "Chrono Trigger 2." Our main objective for Chrono Cross was to share a little bit of the Chrono Trigger worldview, while creating a completely different game as a means of providing new entertainment to the player. This is mainly due to the transition in platform generation from the SNES to the PS. The method I mentioned above, about improving upon a basic system, has inefficiencies, in that it's impossible to maximize the console's performance as the console continues to make improvements in leaps and bounds. Although essentially an RPG, at its core, it is a computer game, and I believe that games should be expressed with a close connection to the console's performance. Therefore, in regards to game development, our goal has always been to "express the game utilizing the maximum performance of the console at that time." I strongly believe that anything created in this way will continue to be innovative.

>> No.6452873
File: 14 KB, 255x244, 1573993634589.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

there's really no reason to actually play chrono cross when you can just listen to the OST on youtube

>> No.6452882

>storyline is literally about time travel
>"little room for a sequel"

Huh? You just pull a "and then a portal opened and future Chrono came out and said that someone has changed the future and young Chrono has to save it!" cliche

>> No.6452889

Apparently Chrono Break was recycled into Final Fantasy Dimensions II, IE we were sparred from a shitty nu-Chrono game that would have been low budget trash.

>> No.6452896

>Are you implying he fought for the full reign of the story or tried to make it his "thing" ?
Yes, but only because he had already been brought in to help crystallize the narrative of a game that was being especially difficult in that regard (later both Horii and Sakaguchi would admit *everything* about that game became "especially difficult" at one point or another). He was, in his own mind, seizing the story reigns from people so caught up in their own struggles with both one another and the game design process itself that they had been left flying in the wind: and the entire team was on a 3-horse chariot headed straight for a seaside cliff! Was he acting shitty? Yes, I suppose he was. Did he have prior reasons? Yes, without him the story would have suffered greatly and might have been the Achilles' Heel that got the entire goddamned game slaughtered by the like of Tales of Phantasia.
>Can you say more? I'm genuinely interested in trigger/cross genesis...
Not much more, no: personality conflicts resulting in a near-complete derail of a developing game is something most Japanese devs are understandably mum about. I don't even feel those broad, sweeping NDAs they get to sign are really even all that necessary most of the time- this a culture that really is public conflict averse. Nonetheless, the few tidbits that have come across the cultural void and through the mouths of fan translators are revealing.

>> No.6452897

>"the music is amazing"
>that one lackluster cacophony of a battle theme
>no boss theme what's so ever for most of the game

It's okay if you like shit but don't pretend it isn't shit.

>> No.6452932
File: 59 KB, 800x508, chromo and marbles.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Animate an even happier ending for the ps1 version.
>Proceed to animate everyone getting slaughtered.

>> No.6452952

Some tidbits:

1. Masato Kato was not part of the initial Chrono team.
2. Scraps of Squaresoft's other near-abortive disaster, Secret of Mana, were recycled into Chrono Trigger.
3. To this day some team members will not give interviews if the subject matter is Chrono Trigger.
4. To this day, some members of the original team will not return to work on further sequels, no matter what is offered to them. It has been indicated this is one of several "blockers" preventing Squeenix from taking the plunge on a new entry.
5. Up until mere weeks before release-to-manufacturing, they did not know if they could get the "seamless combat" mechanic to function reliably enough to keep it.
6. Sakaguchi has gone on-record as saying that if he had known how difficult it would be to do, he would *not* have gone ahead and done Chrono Trigger anyway.
7. Sakaguchi feels their goals were "damn arrogant".
8. Apparently, a conundrum that nearly fractured the entire dev team was a convincing answer to the question "Can we create the greatest JRPG of all time? If so, how will we know it?".
9. At one point, even Toriyama got pulled into the general fray.
10. Mitsuda nearly killed himself trying to produce the music. Literally SHITTING BLOOD for Chrono Trigger.
11. Horii and Sakaguchi fought just as hard as any of the others. The difference is, eventually they were able to bury the hatchet.
12. Radical Dreamers almost didn't have enough remaining guaranteed staff to be greenlit. Everyone working on Trigger required extensive downtime (for the Japanese) before being fit to continue working.

And so on. Quite a bit of info may be found at a Chrono Trigger fansite known as the Chrono Compendium, if it's still around.

>> No.6452954

>Apparently Chrono Break was recycled into Final Fantasy Dimensions II, IE we were sparred from a shitty nu-Chrono game that would have been low budget trash.
I figured. People really should be careful what they wish for with the Squeenix monkey paw, you know?

>> No.6453194
File: 1.45 MB, 1515x800, 20235787_p0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>no boss theme
don't lie anon


>> No.6453636

Thanks for the info anon.
The irony is that... in the end... Chrono trigger is effectively one of the best RPGs of all times. Hardcore RPG fans might find it "cliche" and "too simple", but it's because it's the ultimate RPG experience, if you need to play a single japanese rpg console game, it's this one. It encapsulates everything.

>> No.6453710

Yeah but I don't buy the "they went to sleep for a couple centuries" business,

>> No.6453868
File: 496 KB, 1800x1148, chrono cross beta.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I loved Chrono cross' story when I was 16 but most of its charm comes from the fact you're trying to understand what the fuck is going on.
It's sad because, once you finally get the whole picture (after reading the compendium, just to be sure) you realize that it's pretty dull and it was a bad case of overcomplexification for something that didn't really need it.

It's a shame because there are excellent ideas in chrono cross that aren't used anywhere else, or rarely


>It's a scifi/time travel story that takes place in a tropical archipelago... How cool is that?
>Said archipelago is terraformed and controlled by a supercomputer FROM THE FUTURE
>You got 2 universes, one in which you're dead and you've got to unravel that mystery
>You get a flashforward of the future of "you" killing your soon-to-be best friend/love interest and that's a great twist once you understand why
>Harle then asks you if you're really Serge, like your soul switched body... or you didn't simply exchange memories. That's a powerful philosophical questionment
>The dead sea... Just the dea sea

All of that is awesome but falls flat when you learn that it's all thanks to a single man who calculated everything so these events would happen in that precise order, all to save Schala... A character that hasn't been mentionned at all during the game.
70% of the plot is told at the very end, and 70% of the plot isn't good. It ruins the mystery the game carefully created before.

Chrono cross would have been MUCH better if it was just about Serge and his identity crisis and how the chrono trigger heroes by saving the world, created unforeseen consequences. Sure it's not nice to hear that our heroes fucked up but that would have made CC on par with CT, in a different fashion.
CT's story is competently told. CC's is not

>Remove 30 useless characters and flesh out those who matters
>Remove the dragon fetch quest. Because of it, Kato realized he didn't have enough time to finish the story

>> No.6453897
File: 12 KB, 800x627, lol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

TL;DR : Chrono cross is Kingdom hearts-tier.
Masato kato and Nomura both have great ideas (Nomura came up with the FFVII plot) but they need to work with other people

Pic related was all the doing of Balthasar and 90% of it happens offscreen. The worst being the fact that Serge is really dead and Kid time-travelled to save him. If you miss that single line of infodump it's over for you because the "new" Kid doesn't even remember, and the FMV flashback is too cryptic.

>> No.6453906

Ff7 is the product of 5-6 plots haphazardly stitched together, so it’s odd you use it as some high watermark

>> No.6453925

It doesn't matter how it came to be. What matters is the end result.
The good ideas of FFVII come from Nomura (before he began retconning the fuck out of it). The plot seems obscure because the european translation is really subpar... Otherwise it's a complex story that is fairly easy to understand for what it is and make good use of its unreliable narrator.
The game even make good use of its medium (unlike CC) because if you want more lore you need to explore the world and discover things yourself through sidequests. Meanwhile CC infodumps everything in your face at the end.

I love CC but sometimes, creators really need an editor to help them or say "Bro, stop. That's retarded. Start over"

>> No.6453975
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>> No.6453981
File: 85 KB, 580x411, wherewasmagil.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.6453986

It’s not a good story, it’s unfocused and haphazard and it’s a miracle that people can even begin to follow it. FF7’s plot is very amateurish

>> No.6453995

I think it might on you (and the translation) and not the actual plot, friend.
Unlike chrono cross you don't need to read articles to explain what the fuck is going on. It's even fairly easy to summarize. Because yes, the point is that CC's story is trash in its execution despite having good ideas. I merely mentionned FFVII because it has good ideas too, despite those good ideas coming from the KH director.

>> No.6454000

>apologizing for ff7
We get it, you’re a simp

>> No.6454006
File: 266 KB, 640x480, 49e49a1e239cd67e932d276b44784486c39f074b3525c224dc6630f047b3e33e.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>spouting a buzzword completely unrelated to video games.
Thanks for outing yourself as a retard. No wonder you find FFVII "difficult to follow"

>> No.6454017

>arguing in poor faith
You just can’t admit to yourself that you let nostalgia color your opinion of the game, the reality is that it’s messy and uneven, the tone shifts fairly arbitrarily and plotholes are excused with this “unreliable narrator” gimmick that you seem to find brilliant.

>> No.6454019
File: 344 KB, 711x400, chrono cross explained.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>arguing in poor faith
Stopped reading here. You didn't even adress my argument, you just said "simp". Stop projecting. The thread is not about FFVII anyway.
Both games are labyrinthique stories, but unlike CC, you can understand FFVII if you *PAY ATTENTION*. You can't understand CC even if you do, because the entire plot is told by 3 NPCs at the end, and you realize it's not a good plot.

>> No.6454020

Kid's tummy looks nice and ticklish yumm

>> No.6454021

>stopped reading here
>posts long reply
>still thinks I care what you think about CC
You seem to be having trouble gathering your thoughts

>> No.6454024

Alright on a serious note, is the game really piss easy?

>> No.6454025

I don't give a fuck about your hateboner for FFVII bro. I know /vr/ is full of autists, but it's a chrono cross thread.

Good post and based.

>> No.6454026

Like I played ff6 and never had a problem till the end, is it like ff6 tier easy

>> No.6454028

You literally cannot die. So yes.
You can even flee from the bosses.

>> No.6454034

FFVI is super difficult compared to Chrono Cross.
That's how easy Chrono Cross is.

>> No.6454035

Which is why I stand by the decision that CT should never have had any sequels or spin-offs. It's just one of those games that is best kept as a one-and-done deal due to all the ambition involved in development.

>> No.6454036

I like the game I just won’t apologize for its fanfic tier storyline that you’re bending over backwards to defend
>talking dogs
>an entire disc of playing “chase me” with the villain
>continuity constantly being revised
>exposition that was left on cutting room floor reintroduced as “Easter egg” content
>Cid is largely pointless as a character

>> No.6454041

Thanks man, nothing like a good midriff yeah?
Now answer me dis >>6454024

>> No.6454046

I already did anon. I am >>6454028

>> No.6454049

Fuck man, I wanted to play this and enjoy it bexause the soundtrack is dope, do you think there is a possibility for me to like anything about it??
I just want another jrpg to play after ff7):"
Any reccs? (was gonna play crisis core I know it isn't retro but w.e)

>> No.6454053

>psp game

>> No.6454058

Oh come on man just help a nigga out instead of snitching

>> No.6454061

It’s too late anon, I’ve already fat fingered the mod alarm button

>> No.6454062

that's not very based

>> No.6454064

It’s based on your insubordination actually

>> No.6454065

Chrono cross is mostly about the ambiance and the mystery plot. The gameplay is comfy but if it's not a game... GAME.
What did you like about FFVII? Depending on your answer I'll recommand you a JRPG. You played Chrono trigger, right?

>> No.6454068

I liked how zany and incomplete, and, dare I say, arbitrary ff7s plot felt and I want to relive that experience

>> No.6454073
File: 611 KB, 600x338, 1590102044401.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I like the simple battle system where characters don't feel too over powered, it's not hard fights but you feel challenged. Most importantly it's the SOUNDTRACKs that get me, the plot should be okay but not too important

>> No.6454079

This made me laugh, because it sounds sarcastic is it sarcasm

>> No.6454081

Why not at all anon, I just have eclectic tastes

>> No.6454083


>> No.6454086

Fair. Let's calm down. I was too violent.
But you need to understand why I "defend" it in the first place. Re-read my initial post. I compared it to "Chrono cross" and I said "the good ideas of FFVII" (that came from Nomura)
FFVII has a lot of problems, the ones you mentionned being them.
However, the good ideas: all the sci-fi plot, the clonage and the ancients... come from Nomura, and they're easy to understand compared to Cross because they're organically integrated to the plot and gameplay.
Btw, the retcons like crisis core & co don't count

But given your new posts >>6454068
you sound hurt for whatever reason I don't understand. FFVII isn't even part of my "childhood", I played it in 2012, the same year I played XG and CC;

>> No.6454092

I see... Maybe you will like GRANDIA then. It's on the playstation and it seems to fit what you want. Especially about the gameplay and soundtrack

>> No.6454101

>main character has the same name as me

>> No.6454103

Those posts sound hurt to you? They’re so politely rendered. You seem a little on the sensitive side anon, I didn’t mean to get under your skin.

>> No.6454107

Sarcasm often hides butthurt, but if you're not then it's good. We shouldn't get angry about video games. They're for fun.
You have a good day anon

>> No.6454110
File: 53 KB, 612x380, 1FB83E19-0BAA-4A37-B490-B117140E0A3D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Okay anon, you have a good one too.

>> No.6454254

...You know what? While I'm the guy who insists that the game lies/retcons/etc from earlier, I can respect/buy this attitude and I certainly agree with you about the excitement factor making or breaking Cross.

And yeah... everything in CT was all but undone because of a single character who caused all of this, it just feels so fucking spiteful and disrespectful--even if the game technically adheres to many of CT's themes-- to what came before. And Magus wasn't even the culprit!

It honestly kinda reminds me of the transition of Nightmare on Elm St. #3 to #4; the latter had a really interesting angle with kids getting super powers in their dreams as a *very* desperate attempt to not be killed by Freddy; some of them survive but not without great cost/casualty and they earn the ending they got... only for all of them to be massacred in the first half hour of the sequel followed by the plot to focus on the worst goddamn Mary Sue of the franchise/Final Girls in general and to make matters worse, she lived through two movies. Yeah Part 4 has some astoundingly good "kills" and wasn't bad by itself, but it still totally shits on what came before it, which can piss off anybody who enjoyed the Dream Warriors as a concept.

>> No.6454283
File: 160 KB, 594x918, chrono.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yep. You got it.
That's why I will never replay Chrono cross.
I loved playing it. I was even taking notes from NPCs and making theories to understand how the dead sea came to be... and when I learned *in game* chronopolis was from 2300 I was mindblown and even more eager to learn the rest.
The game peaked at the dead sea and when you fought FATE in Chronopolis.

But now? Heh. I know I will find it dull. Not that it erases all the other qualities the game had, but the journey made the game

>And Magus wasn't even the culprit!
You know what? I would have forgiven all of that omniscient mastermind bullshit if it was Magus, yeah.

>> No.6454294
File: 14 KB, 512x444, Radical_Dreamers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Also Radical Dreamers is a gem and every chrono fan should play it at least once. Preferrably at night in a single go.
It has the good qualities of Chrono cross in a 3hrs visual novel/dungeon crawler

>> No.6454330
File: 1.58 MB, 1808x1114, chrono_cross.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. So many cool plot points like those you listed and save points being used by FATE to control people but once you get to the meat of it everything falls apart.
Still, I think the music, art and general atmosphere more than make up for it. Even the bloated cast is a positive if you thing of it more as a collect-em-all mechanic.

Thanks for reminding me I still need to play this. If it really is only that long, maybe I'll marathon it tonight. Should be comfy.

>> No.6454365
File: 549 KB, 750x750, RD.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>that spoiler
I found that twist to be pretty meta without being obnoxious... Especially when it's foreshadowed since Arni village. Really good stuff;

Also yeah, RD is short, but it depends if you're the kind of people with good orientation skill and/or if you're used to play retro games and you try everything every option you stumble upon.

Like all chrono games, it has multiple endings once you finish it once, bust instead of just being "endings" some are brand new scenarios. It's pretty cool

>> No.6454381

three words: Chrono Trigger Shitters

>> No.6454467

What did he mean by this

>> No.6454893

I'm not that anon but I understood the plot of CC...

>> No.6454904

You will love Chrono Cross. Play Xenogeaes too. And fucking unironically Kingdom Hearts.

>> No.6455049
File: 63 KB, 1020x544, sunken ocean palace.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I meant that it's impossible to understand the plot of CC without reading the infodump at Opassa beach at the end. 70% of the plot is there.

The game plays like a puzzle where you have to use your brain to collect the pieces... but then you realize it was impossible to guess anyway:
For example

Kid goes back in time to save Serge from drowning because she's working with Balthasar... thus creating "Home world"
It's THE MOST important info concerning Serge and It's never mentionned or hinted prior Oppasa beach. The only moment where it's foreshadowed, is this scene, but you cannot understand it at all when you first see. There is no further hint. And if you happen to button mash the NPC text, then you're dead/

Here's something: CC would have been much better if it had used the NG+ and its multiple endings to deliver crucial pieces of informations, one at a time.
Not only it would have told a story in a way only video games can, but it would have also been more memorable + sparking fan discussions for years

>> No.6455108

The music is overrated
The art design is kind of a mess
50+ playable characters with no personality
It kills the beloved Chrono Trigger cast
Masato Kato fanfiction
It has no business bearing the Chrono name

>> No.6455110

>You cannot deny that developing this game MUST have had cause some kind of internal drama at Square.
It did.
Gooch wanted to make a sequel but he was denied. Probably by Wada who wanted to milk Final Faggotry instead(and did).

>> No.6455113

Except not really because that doesn't explain Radical Dreamers which came out a year after CT.

>> No.6455120

>Chrono Trigger just felt fine as a one-and-done story.
Now this is a fucking lie and you know it.
Lavos bit being alive at the end was a hint at a sequel. It was obvious they left things open for a sequel.
That's why Sakaguchi wanted to make Chrono Trigger a series and make Chrono Trigger 2 with the same team.

Ultimately Wada sabotaged Chrono by putting Kato in charge so that he could milk Final Fantasy for all it's worth.

>> No.6455126

>The music is overrated
I didn't even need to read the rest of your post to know you were a chrono triggered fag

>It kills the beloved Chrono Trigger cast

>> No.6455138

>Lavos bit being alive at the end was a hint at a sequel.
Which Lavos bit?
>It was obvious they left things open for a sequel.
Like many things, however it's still true that CT works perfectly as stand alone. The only real unresolved thread being Schala... Which is why Kato made RD/CC
Honestly, even if Cross is a mess, I prefer its ambition to a potential "chrono trigger 2 : Lavos strikes back" that only children wants.
I hope Square won't release a 3D remake, the game is already perfect.

>> No.6455141

>Now imagine CC with CTs gameplay. Pretty awesome concept? Yep...
CC wouldn't be awesome with any gameplay system.

Now a CT2 with a more real-time system...that would be badass. I know for a fact they wanted to let you move around in battle but they couldn't implement it(among other ambitious features that were cut).
Imagine a CT2 with a battle system that is kinda similar like Live-A-Live but more involved and with the double/triple tech system. That would be awesome.

Replaying CT kinda sucks from a gameplay standpoint because it's so basic. When you first play CT it's not a problem at all but in replays it's kinda boring.

Also I'm sure Luminaire wasn't meant to be a braindead full-screen tech initially. The reason I think so is because of the tutorial inside the game which describes techs and area of effect using Chrono's Luminaire animation.

>> No.6455148

>The graphics, music and plot arent very controversial.
Except they actually are for fans of Chrono Trigger.
Cross fucked up a lot of the lore.
The art was actually a huge sticking point with nips sending mail to Kato saying "This is not Chrono".
You don't just go from Akira Toriyama to somebody else.

In the first place Chrono Trigger was an RPG set on an Akira Toriyama world. That's what Sakaguchi himself said.

>> No.6455161

They could take Cross's idea of smaller moves and a stamina bar to have things like repositioning and light attacks for one turn, saving up power for a big technique on your next turn. There could be an emphasis on positioning enemies so they line up just right for those fancier techs, maybe lighter attacks goad them into swarming one character while the rest of the party moves around behind them to hit the exposed weak spot.

>> No.6455169

>Masato Kato was in charge of Cross and he hates Trigger
I have a theory that he hates Trigger because Magus getting killed by Frog is actually canon in Trigger until he retcons it in his fanfiction sequels.
Even if you spare Magus when you go do Frog's sidequest Cyrus's grave says "Here lies Cyrus he was avenged by his friend Glenn" or something like that.

People all think Magus being spared is canon to Trigger but I dunno...I feel like this has always been assumption from fans basing it on Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross and maybe not what the Dream Team intended.

>> No.6455174

Masato Kato, Honne and Mitsuda are as much responsible of the success of Chrono trigger than Akira toriyama, Hoori, and Sakaguchi
Trigger fanboys don't seem to realize that without these guys CT would have been a very simple and forgettable RPG except for Toriyama's chara design.

Imagine Chrono trigger, then remove Zeal and the lore around it that stretches across all time
Then remove the OST and make it sound like final fantasy (10 tracks or so were composed by Uematsu)

A lot of people who liked trigger also liked cross (this is why the chrono compendium exist) because two of the major selling points of trigger are in cross (the dead sea/chronopolis hold the same function as ZEAL, and the music speaks for itself) even if some other things aren't (like Toriyama)

>> No.6455175

>little room for a sequel
Except for Lavos literally surviving at the end.

>> No.6455179

>5. Up until mere weeks before release-to-manufacturing, they did not know if they could get the "seamless combat" mechanic to function reliably enough to keep it.
>6. Sakaguchi has gone on-record as saying that if he had known how difficult it would be to do, he would *not* have gone ahead and done Chrono Trigger anyway.
>7. Sakaguchi feels their goals were "damn arrogant".
>8. Apparently, a conundrum that nearly fractured the entire dev team was a convincing answer to the question "Can we create the greatest JRPG of all time? If so, how will we know it?".
>9. At one point, even Toriyama got pulled into the general fray.
Citation needed for all of these.
Sounds like you made some of these up.

>> No.6455180
File: 94 KB, 800x600, 13333577.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Speaking about canon in a game about how your choices influences the future

You can also finish the game without Crono. Which one is canon then? And where did Masato Kato ever imply that he hated Trigger or something?

>The dream team
See >>6455174
Masato Kato is part of the real dream team. The rest is just advertising. Toriyama is the only one who actually put effort beyond sketching the rough outlines of the project

>> No.6455184

>Lavos surviving
[citation fucking needed]
Are you a DS player by chance? I wouldn't be surprised you took Square Enix retcon for the reality

>> No.6455185

I dislike Kato but I wouldn't go that far.
If Kato's bullshit is reigned in he can produce some wonderful stories.
You can't say the same about Nomura(or Nojima or Toriyama(the Lightning fag)). There's not a single Nomura game out there with a good story.
Should have stuck to designing monsters.

>> No.6455192

... That's literally what I said anon. Lol.
Kato was really good in chrono trigger. He elevated the story and inserted a much-needed complexity and nuance in it

As for Toriyama and Nojima... Toriyama wrote Bahamut lagoon, a game whose famous "ntr" twist shocked players to this day and Nojima wrote some poignant FFVI scenes
But it seems that these two were held-back by the system limitations of their times. As soon as they had the chance to make pseudo 3D anime, they seized the occasion. A shame.

>> No.6455197

I still think Nomura is a good *idea guy* though. FFVII could have been handled better but the characters he designed and wrote back then aren't bad at all. Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Barret are compelling and interesting. The bad translation and FFVII-compilation retcons don't help them, but they're good lads.

>> No.6455212

>Which Lavos bit?
The left one. Did you even play it?
When you kill Lavos' final form and the screen fades to white you see the left Lavos bit still alive.

>Like many things, however it's still true that CT works perfectly as stand alone.
If Lavos didn't survive sure.
The fact that Lavos survives means that the quest is incomplete so-to-speak.

Also in general there's a lot of lore and details that are left unanswered.
Chrono Trigger's world was filled with possibilities and of course Gooch saw that.

>> No.6455218

>Masato Kato, Honne and Mitsuda are as much responsible of the success of Chrono trigger than Akira toriyama, Hoori, and Sakaguchi
Hahahahahhahahha imagine believing this.
Get bent.

>> No.6455228

>Which one is canon then?
According to Takashi Tokita at least the canon ending is the Chrono and Marle Balloon Ending.
But he never specified anything about Magus.

I just find it frustrating how it's unanimously agreed that Magus not getting killed is canon when the game literally implies otherwise in Frog's sidequest.
Now it could be that it was a graphical bug or whatever but this isn't actually clear nor was it ever clarified by any of the devs.

>> No.6455230

>When you kill Lavos' final form and the screen fades to white you see the left Lavos bit still alive.

You know that you can actually kill every single piece of Lavos before destroying it, right?
Example here :

Or even here when the guy killed the left bit before killing it

I can't believe you thought that a graphical glitch was a hint at a sequel lmao

>> No.6455232
File: 71 KB, 640x480, 1_v8I0cthmjFmmEM9T7dg2IA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's hard for me to admit the problems the plot had with this game. The first time I played it, all the the individual moments left a lasting impression on me very similar to the way Trigger had. Back in the day, being a extremely big fan of Chrono Trigger and for the first time discovering Cross being totally unaware there was even a sequel to one of my all time favorite games, I actually loved the game finish to end. I was legitimately surprised to see how many fans disliked it on online forums.
Maybe the overarching story isn't really that well put together, most of the plot is conveyed through a ridiculous info dump that reads like total nonsense nearing the end of the game. But it really made it up with all those moments for me, like the part where you're transported to another world and your on the cliff where your parallel self is dead and memorialized starring out into the evening sun across the sea, or the campfire scene, or the time you infiltrate viper manor, or the Dead Sea. I could go on but there's just a lot of individual moments that really felt like they had time to breathe and let me sink into the world of Chrono Cross. I replayed this game recently and... The magic, be it probably nostalgia was still there, though it did kinda reveal the problems with the story structure. I didn't mind the boat load of characters until I found out Magus' involvement in the story was cut because there were so many characters.

>> No.6455240
File: 18 KB, 335x250, magus_vs_frog_by_kasienda_d70g9o5-250t.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

If I wanted DBZ with time travel I could just re-read the manga. CT without Zeal or Mitsuda's music isn't CT. Deal with it.

I think the point is that, beyond the balloon ending, it's up to your choice. Freedom.
I think Frog would have spared Magus because Toriyama likes the idea of redemption. Goku always try to redeem his enemies and onyl kill them when it's only necessary. I think Frog would be the same.

>> No.6455242

I'm >>6453868
and it's exactly that.
A game less than the sum of its parts. But those parts were extremely well-done. Excellent and unique, even.

>> No.6455247
File: 37 KB, 684x547, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I've only ever played the SNES version. The DS version I've only seen in Let's Plays.

When you beat Lavos when the screen fades to white you can see the shadow of the left pod(called Lavos Bit) basically breathing.

>> No.6455250

>Toriyama wrote Bahamut lagoon
Yeah and it was godawful.
One of the most infamous RPGs in Japan ever.

>> No.6455254

Well my bad. I had totally forgotten that. Weird.

Good job anons. Still, I wouldn't call that "sequel bait" but rather; "let's keep things open just in case"

>> No.6455259

It's only godawful if you self-inserted too hard as the hero and named the heroine after your crush.

But you don't have to.Only a certain kind of people like to scream after Yoyo

>> No.6455268

Chrono without Toriyama is not Chrono.
It's hilarious how you're trying to attach Mitsuda's name to Kato too.
I agree that without Kato, Chrono Trigger wouldn't have been the same. But it's clear that Toriyama, Horii and Sakaguchi were the biggest players in Chrono Trigger because the game has their principles in it above anyone else.

One of the most defining features of Chrono Trigger which was the Double/Triple combination tech system came directly from Horii for example.
And of course you cannot downplay Takashi Motherfucking Tokita whose game Live-A-Live was essentially a proto-Chrono Trigger. You can see his influence throughout.

>> No.6455276

Nah Gooch has said that he wanted to make a sequel and make Chrono Trigger a series. He even fought to make it a series but was turned down.

The team behind Chrono Trigger were legends and very shrewd. They knew what they were doing. There was no move that was miscalculated.

>> No.6455285

>I think Frog would have spared Magus because Toriyama likes the idea of redemption.
I don't know about that. Toriyama didn't exactly write the story and Toriyama is inconsistent himself.
Goku used to kill villains like nobody's business when he was a kid for example.

>> No.6455294

Nah, the story in general is very retarded.
The main character is a literal asshole who sends assassins to kill other people he doesn't like.
Yoyo is actually a slut that slept with everybody.
Shit is just retarded.

>> No.6455301

I think what you can gather from this is that Chrono Trigger is what is is from equal parts of literally everyone involved. That's why it's so fucking great. Everyone put their best ideas and passion into something that became a masterpiece.

>> No.6455304

>Graphical Glitch
[citation needed]

>> No.6455305
File: 534 KB, 1086x358, same feeling.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>It's hilarious how you're trying to attach Mitsuda's name to Kato too.
I'm not trying anything. They've worked together on all the three chrono games (RD is canon to the CT universe) and CT has been praised for its plot and music as much as its gameplay.

I didn't want to say that the original "dream team" was useless. Horii also came up with the time travel plot after all, among what you said. There are also a lot of names we don't mention a lot that were essential like Takashi Tokita (Live-A-Live is awesome)
I just meant that, there is a particular "mood" that feels "Chrono" and that this anon describe perfectly >>6455232
And that feel is the combinaison of Mitsuda's music + Kato writing. (The sealed door theme + the last dialogue of the Nu when you're gonna grab the Epoch is this)

Chrono Cross is very flawed, but it has this "chrono feel", even without Toriyama. This is why you have people who love both games. They're linked by this "feeling" even if the surface elements and gameplay are very different

>> No.6455310

canon to the CC universe*

This. It's the definitive JRPG, especially for people who don't like JRPGs. Recommand it to your friends.

>> No.6455319

>DS version
Now post a video with the SNES version where Lavos doesn't appear in the end.
I'll wait.

>> No.6455324

>Goku used to kill villains like nobody's business when he was a kid for example.
I like to think it's because he was immature, or it's a weird story convention. Where mooks lives don't matter but huge genocidal vilains have a chance at redemption (like Star wars)
Anyway, maybe it's best we don't have all the answers...

>> No.6455330

Wasn't that assassin thing optional? Since you could chose your dialogue choices and stuff like that?
Maybe my memory fails me then. I trust you anon.

>> No.6455336

Don't bother anons. I fucked up. I answered here : >>6455254

Gooch is Sakaguchi? Why was he turned down? Wasn't he the most important man at Squaresoft atm?

>> No.6455359

I wouldn't say equal parts from everyone.
It's clear that the major players were the dream trio of Toriyama-Horii-Sakaguchi.
Then I'd put Takashi Tokita
And then I'd put Mitsuda, Kato etc.

And Kato literally was against the Time Travel aspect at the beginning.

Speak for yourself about the "mood".
To me Chrono Cross felt very different from Trigger.
Mitsuda's style of music in particular is quite different in Cross. It's a lot more downbeat and depressive compared to Trigger which was a more balanced soundtrack.
>The sealed door theme
That was Nobou Uematsu who composed that theme you pleb.

>> No.6455369
File: 38 KB, 540x507, 1513945162610.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>That was Nobou Uematsu who composed that theme you pleb.
>it's true
>me rn

I think I got confused because "frozen flame" is a subtle remix of sealed door

Anyway, I'd like some infos to your claims if anything. Like Kato being against the time travel. It's interesting

>> No.6455371

IIRC, Guile was originally meant to be Magus in disguise but was dropped because they feared players would stick to using a team of *only* Serge, Kid (aka Schala), and Guile (aka Magus) instead of exploring all the other cool characters.

You can even see the resemblance between Guile and Magus, too. I do wish they’d left him in tho but like given him amnesia or something idk.

>> No.6455373

>Wasn't he the most important man at Squaresoft atm?
He was the vice-president at the time I believe.
He had influence for sure but he was not the head honcho.

We don't know exactly the reason. It might be that they didn't want to work with Enix that much or the most plausible explanation would be that they wanted to focus on milking Final Fantasy.

Don't know for sure but he has stated that he wanted Chrono Trigger to be a series and that he fought for it but was ultimately turned down.

>> No.6455374

>frozen flame
I meant the dead sea theme.
My brain doesn't work well today. And yeah I know my screenshot is chronopolis, before you mention it

>> No.6455383
File: 1.52 MB, 1250x850, 7ef41a7d8f6cad93ea031c40fcd7ec19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Comfy question :
Where would you live in the Chrono universe. And which era?

>> No.6455385
File: 252 KB, 750x700, comfy chrono.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.6455395

I absolutely love the large cast, and having to do multiple playthrus to collect them all.

Only wish New Game+ let you keep the Masamune, and their level 7 techs.

>> No.6455398

>I like to think it's because he was immature, or it's a weird story convention.
No it's because Toriyama doesn't really give a shit about the story that much. He just likes writing fun stuff that kids can enjoy.
He's literally stated that he tries to forget much of the stuff he writes in purpose before when writing new stuff so that he doesn't have to wreck his mind too hard.

I mean Goku kills General Black and King Piccolo and stuff. He also doesn't think much of killing Raditz his own brother.
The only time he's spared somebody has been Freeza when he attempted to spare him and he spared Piccolo partly because the Dragon Balls and Kami would disappear if Piccolo died.
He convinced Krillin to spare Vegeta because he wanted to fight him again.

This is why you have stupid shit like Goku giving senzu beans to Cell and stuff.
DB's forte was never the story in its entirety.

>> No.6455421


>> No.6455434

Then they're the ones who were wrong for thinking any continuation was ever needed.

>> No.6455439


>> No.6455469

Though this is a tangent, that's a little out of context. Goku fought a crapdillion Red Ribbon army guys most of whom were reprehensible killers prone to taking hostages/threatening to kill innocent/sidelined people DURING their fight with him, which tends to really piss Goku off (See: Nappa.) This includes Tao Pie Pie, but in that case all Goku did was kick a bomb *back* at him so it was in part his own doing he got exploded and cyborged. And Demon King Piccolo literally announced he was going to start a lottery to determine which random city he'd blow the fuck up every May 9th, orchestrated Krillin's death, and in general was a gigantic douchebag during any of their fights.

>> No.6455475

>Like Kato being against the time travel. It's interesting
>"How did the production of the Super Nintendo version progress?"

>"At the very start the entire production staff of 50 or 60 people were gathered together in a large meeting room and each gave their opinions on what kind of game we wanted to make. Thinking about it now, it was a pretty messed up way to go about things. (laughs)"

>"Ever since I was a boy I’ve liked Sci-Fi, and within that really loved time travel and time patrolling kinds of stories. The person who initially suggested we do a time travel piece was actually someone from outside of the project, and I objected to it at the time. Because I liked time travel stories so much, I knew that dealing with this subject in a game carried an unusually high danger of becoming a boring, unappealing work. However, my opposition to going with time travel was in the minority, and furthermore, the person who became the de-facto scenario head wasn’t the person who had originally suggested it, but me. What the heck was that all about?"

>> No.6455486

Yeah like you wouldn't play a Chrono Trigger 2 by the Dream Team in their prime.
Give me a break, anon.

>> No.6455492

Thanks anon. Didn't know that. Still he doesn't seem like he hate the concept of "time travel" but didn't want to do because he thought it could suck.
Given that he became scenario head writer we can conclude he did a good job. CT is carefully planned and foreshadowed throughout.

>> No.6455493

Dude. Freeza literally killed Krillin and Goku swore to take revenge and in the end he tries to forgive Freeza.
Don't try to overthink Toriyama. If you've ever read any Toriyama interview you'd know just what kind of character Toriyama is.

>> No.6455497

Just because something worked once doesn't mean something will work again. The selling point of CT is exploring the history of the entire planet and see how everything is connected. What do you want to do for a CT2? Lavos comes back and they need to travel to its planet? Or exploring antiquity/middle age/future? It's Crimson echoes tier

>> No.6455504

The version of 1999 where Lavos was stopped

>> No.6455507

It was great because he was reigned in a lot though.
Everything he did had to be passed to Sakaguchi and Horii(and others like Kitase probably) for approval.

Also obviously he didn't write everything. A lot of the stuff he wrote was him rewriting the stuff other people wrote to ensure continuity(which was then passed on to Horii and Gooch for further examination).
He only really wrote the 12000BC section from scratch.

>> No.6455524
File: 11 KB, 253x214, PepeFrog-e1504629699944.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>there are no rebalance mods that makes all the characters useful, tune down Serge/Glenn, and makes combat actually a challenge

>> No.6455525

>Just because something worked once doesn't mean something will work again.
Never said that but if Chrono Trigger 2 came out you would have bought it.
Don't tell me that you didn't dream even a little bit of a real sequel when you first played it.

>Lavos comes back
Well Lavos did technically survive.
The sequel could have maybe even had different characters like Chrono/Marle/Lucca's descendants hundreds or thousands of years into the future dealing with Lavos for example. That's just an idea, kinda like the Breath of Fire approach.
Who knows what they would do. I only know that it'd be a high chance that it would turn out into a great game.
Sakaguchi said that he wanted to perfect the feeling of "making you want to dance" that Toiyama's worlds give you.

>> No.6455542

Is there a mod that makes chrono trigger harder/more challenging?

Once you know the bosses' strategies, it's piss easy

>> No.6455586

Play underleveled until you get the wallet and then use the wallet to never gain experience from the on.
There's some rebalance mods but I'm not sure how good they are.

Problem with Chrono Trigger is that the gameplay just doesn't feel engaging on a 2nd playthrough because you've figured out everything and a turned-based system can only be so engaging.
I wish you could move around and stuff in battle. They even wanted to do it back then but weren't able to.

>> No.6455615

Sakaguchi nearly bankrupted Square with the extremely shitty and expensive movie Spirits Within why does everyone think Sakaguchi is jesus

>> No.6455634

He is a good idea guy and he saved squaresoft
I don't think he's all that good, all the great FF titles and chrono trigger are collaborative works and the ones he directed are nothing to write home about.

Maybe that's why Squaresoft was all about.
People uniting their powers to make excellent games instead of stand-alone geniuses.
After all, everytime a guy at squaresoft wanted to do his pet project it failed... Sometimes brillantly, but it failed
Spirit within

>> No.6455706

>Is there a mod that makes chrono trigger harder/more challenging?
I haven't tried out Chrono Trigger +, but I heard it makes the game more of a challenge while tossing in additional content

>> No.6455752

You're not getting citations for something I typed up off-the-cuff based on shit I read once over a decade ago on websites that may not exist anymore. I pointed you in the general direction of where I got *most* (90%) of my info- Chrono Compendium, and if it turns out to be false then I'm sorry. My guess would be either faulty memory or a fan translator taking too many liberties, because half this shit is originally from Jap magazine interviews.

>> No.6456004
File: 94 KB, 320x240, yourfault.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

If you're autistic like me and you like reading HUGE articles about retro games, you might want to read this one


It describes in great lenght why the game is both kind-of-magnificent, and a faillure at the same time

>> No.6456178

... and shitty everything else. I remember being distinctly disappointed that battles were no longer in the exploration field anymore, and the rarity of double/triple techs. Also what's up with the stupid limited spell use system. I hate actually playing this stupid game, and its 2deep plot and 50 two dimensional characters. The music's amazing, true, but the shittiest track plays the most often.

>> No.6456203

>getting filtered by Gale
It's always funny

>> No.6456218

Termina Eating Squid Pasta and drinking Dragon's Glory

>> No.6456224

Dangerous levels of based
I wanna take Kid on a date there

>> No.6456240

1000 AD
I'd just fight and sing all day with Gato then use my silver points to get the bitches.

>> No.6456270

Squid GUT pasta, faggot. Get it right or pay the price.
>Camp Anawanna!
>We hold you in our hearts!

>> No.6456283

My only complaint is the story goes into straight fan fiction territory near the end with all the time crash and dinopolis b.s.

>> No.6456307

Part of me wishes we could have a retelling of the Chrono games that would better tie the stories together; make Trigger better set up the events of Cross while giving Cross a stronger connection to Trigger. Cross had such a large cast I think it was a missed opportunity that we couldn't have the first game's cast join Serge.
On the other hand, Square is Square, and I'm terrified they'd somehow completely fuck it all up if they tried doing this.

>> No.6456313

Chrono trigger doesn't need to change anything.
It's Cross, and I love that game. Cross shits the bed at the end.

Also yes, given modern square it's better to leave Chrono in the past and fan's hearts. I haven't played FFVII remake but I heard they added time travel bullshit in it

>> No.6456317

You know, I'll honestly give it to you, but I wasn't enjoying my time with it anyway. I kept playing it til it "gets good", but it didn't, and the first time I was challenged I realized I wasn't enjoying the game enough to 'git gud'. This was many years ago, though. I imagine I can play it smarter now, but who cares really?

>> No.6456323

It's fine honestly. And I get people not liking the battle theme. It's a joke because unlike most music that are written in 4/4, it uses a 7/8 or something like that signature move. Something that is usually found in jazz or progressive rock.

You're allowed to not enjoy a game. There are even people who don't like Chrono trigger

>> No.6456324

it uses a 7/8 tempo or something like that as its musical signature*
BRO. It's just too late and my brain can't keep up

>> No.6456335

>There are even people who don't like Chrono trigger
I'm one of them. I don't particularly like Cross, either, though. Both are very 'press A to win' sorts of games, which I dislike. Furthermore, Trigger disappointed me as a kid. I find it ironic that a game all about time travel can be so fucking linear. Cross, too. I appreciate Cross' ambition, but fuck me if the execution of it didn't try it's damnedest (and succeeded, 2bh) to ruin the game at every turn.

>> No.6456765

But Lavos did strike back in Cross.

>> No.6457051

Play the game and form your own opinion you braindead NPC. I'm not convinced you ever played anything else you're talking about now.

There was time travel in the first fucking game in the series.

And you're in a thread about how the most beloved RPG has time travel. Time travel isnt bad. Everyone fucking loves time travel. Everyone loves terminator back to the future Chrono Trigger and Zelda.

>> No.6457243

I fucking detest Chrono Trigger and I think OOT is one of the worst things to ever happen to anything, ever. Never watched Terminator, just T2. Didn't care for it.

>> No.6457406
File: 20 KB, 381x290, DZ-O8v_V4AAKz8R[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.6457434

It's not about hating time travel. It's about adding time travel in a game whose storyline is already complicated. Time travel is the favorite tool of hack authors because they can justify anything with it, as we can see in Chrono Cross.

>Everyone loves time travel
>no I don't
>You're just a contrarian
Kinda pathetic.

>> No.6457565

>play for half an hour last night
>get killed by a skeleton
>have to start over
I was able to open the save menu but it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe it's an issue with the snes9x 2002 core.

>> No.6457578

>Dying in Radical dreamers
Bro how did you do it?

I recommand using save states btw, I dont trust these emulators, frankly.

>> No.6457590
File: 23 KB, 589x319, 64cbc2a9459e303bb63154f38babab6c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The game doesn't have a plot. You meander between two different alternate universes for a bit. The you go to Chronopolis and then a giant flying island from an alternate dimension shows up and then you travel to yet another alternate dimension to kill Lavos because he's only half dead.

>> No.6457591

Yeah I didn't think it was possible.
I tried to attack the skeleton, it bit my hand, then Magil blew up it's head and it said I was dead.

>> No.6457593

>tfw Magil killed you because he doesn't want you to date the reincarnation of his sister
Yep. I think Magus is a total chad

>> No.6457616

I don't hate popular things just because they're popular. I give popular things a fair try. Sometimes, I like popular things. Sometimes, I dislike popular things. This is called 'personal preference' or 'taste.'
I explained why I didn't like CT here >>6456335
I've explained several times that I think Zelda started to go to shit at aLttP and went to complete shit with every entry into the series thereafter, going into elder god shit tier when Nintendo tried to retcon an official timeline (woulda been better if each game was a stand-alone in its own pocket universe version of Hyrule).
I disliked T2 because I just did, idfky. I'm not really an action movie kinda person.

>> No.6457625

>going into elder god shit tier when Nintendo tried to retcon an official timeline (woulda been better if each game was a stand-alone in its own pocket universe version of Hyrule).

This is Tom Preston-tier, not gonna lie. Who cares about the official timeline and the lore of Hyrule seriously.

>> No.6457630

Squid Gut is still made of Squid. So a Squid pasta for two please.

>> No.6457657

Tom Who-ston?

>> No.6457670
File: 384 KB, 744x1073, tom preston.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

A well-known comic artist on 4chan who hates modern Zelda because Nintendo changed Link's hair color and "retconned" the Mario universe when he once lived in brooklyn etc.
Who cares, honestly?

>> No.6457671

>Who cares about the official timeline and the lore of Hyrule seriously.
I do. But I don't happen to share his opinion.

>> No.6457674

>A well-known comic artist on 4chan who hates modern Zelda because Nintendo changed Link's hair color and "retconned" the Mario universe when he once lived in brooklyn etc.
>Who cares, honestly?
Never heard of him. How well-known could he possibly be?

>> No.6457681

He is on par with Chris-chan. It's good for you if you don't know about internet lolcows. I didn't imply it was a source of pride.

I'm the opposite. I actually share his opinion: the timeline is pretty stupid (especially when they keep making "first episodes" (OOT, MC, SW)) but the "timeline" doesn't matter because it's not what make a Zelda game good or not.
I'm just surprised he's judging Zelda, as a series, on this basis.

>> No.6457689

>He is on par with Chris-chan.
Chris is a genius performance artist and we are all dancing to his tune

Dobson on the other hand seems to be sincerely Dobson as a person

>> No.6457693

It's bullshit, but I believe it

>> No.6457756

Oh, I remember seeing that. He was serious? Dear me, that's awful. I remove my gripe about the Zelda time-line retconning. All other complaints, however, still stand.

>> No.6457762

The irony is that we wouldn't even have a Zelda timeline issue if it wasn't for Wind Waker ruining everything.

>> No.6457780

Well, my complaints about Zelda are less about the timeline and more about linearity. The original, and to a lesser extent Z2, allowed for open exploration. LttP put an end to that. First, go to the castle, then the eastern palace then the desert palace then the tower then the castle tower then the palace of darkness AND NOW you can start exploring a little, but still not too much. The GB titles made it even worse.
I just wanna bomb some dodongos. Fuck your story time and doing shit in order.

>> No.6457817

Have you played Breath of the wild?

>> No.6457828

>he tries to forgive Freeza
As of now Goku holds no grudges with Frieza anymore, he even allows him to rebuild his empire and sees him as a rival to battle if appears, i know Super is retarded

>> No.6457847

I had forgotten how kino the opening is :


>> No.6457892
File: 131 KB, 400x348, 95-radicaldreamers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Just beat it. I really don't know how I managed to die the first time.
Overall it was worth playing as a fan of Cross. Gameplay was kinda repetitive but the music was nice and it managed to have more characterization than the entirety of Cross.

>> No.6457915

I have not. Is good?

>> No.6457920

Breath of the Wild and Oracle of Seasons are the Zelda games for you friend. Breath completely throws linearity out the window, and Seasons is pretty much a better Zelda 1.

>> No.6457982

seasons is pretty fucking linear, brosephine bronaparte

>> No.6457992

It's exactly what you want: Zelda 1 on a modern hardware.
You can kill the final boss in the first hour if you want, but the meat of the game is exploring the map and adventuring

>> No.6457997

Cool anon. I'm glad you liked it. And yeah, it's pretty much a softcore Kid dating-sim so if you like her you're gonna love RD, otherwise, not so much.

>> No.6458131

Shut the fuck up faggote this is a retro board.

>> No.6458136

What was justified with time travel in cross.

Where did they even fucking time travel...?

>> No.6458139

I'm from the future and retro now means every game released before the democratization of VR in 2030

>> No.6458152
File: 233 KB, 640x480, 1508092971922.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Where did they even fucking time travel...?
This nigga... did you even pay attention to the game's story line?

Get ready for a ride

The entire plot exist because a guy Time crashed an entire city from 2030 AD directly into 12 000 BC... he also calculated that the planet (who has a consciousness) who counter balance it, by time/dimension travelling a city from a timeline where dinosaur are the ruling species... The same guy then timetravelled again to 1020.A.D where he met Kid, who timetravelled to save Serge from drowning, creating a timeline where he is alive (Home world)... that same serge, then time travelled and saved Kid from being killed by Lynx at the orphanage, creating an enternal timeloop of Kid/serge saving themselves until the dimensions are finally merged at the end

I'm not making this up. See also :this picture >>6453897

>> No.6458162

From 2300AD*

Also for FFVII, the game being about ecology, clonage and identity crisis was enough... Pouring some "meta" time travel gimmick about making sure the remake doesn't deviate from the original is not good nor clever. It's hack writing, it's KH-tier. It's Nomura shitting on FFVII again once more

>> No.6458741

The entire plot happens because the time traveling super tech city doesn't have a backup generator in the event of a thunderstorm.

>> No.6458758


>> No.6459269
File: 501 KB, 500x800, Chrono.Cross.full.539600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

How would you fix chrono cross story? Given that you can work with the assets already present in the game

This means that
-The action must stay in El Nido and you cannot create new locations
-You cannot bring back old characters, except Magus, but only because Magil is here.

Go crazy. How do you do it?

>> No.6459510

The most obvious would be to flesh out the last part of the game which was rushed for time and probably money.

>> No.6459525

No mate I asked where did WE time travel? Everything you posted happened in the past that was just an origin. Imean besides that 1 time to Kid's orphanage I cant think of anything.

>> No.6459539

Sometimes I feel like I am an alien. I fucking loved most Kingdom Hearts. Especially DDD, and Kingdom Hearts 3. I liked Chrono Cross more than Trigger, Final Fantasy 8 more than 7 and I loves the FF7R ending.

But these games all sold a shitton and the only complaints I see are just things I've seen parroted over and over and over again. I swear most people just get their opinions from youtubers and paste it into comments because they cant think for themselves.KH tier isnt an arguement. It's barely an opinion because it doesnt even mean anything.

>> No.6459541

>I loved KH3
what's wrong with you, it's barely a 15 hour game

>> No.6459553

You're just moving the goalpost now. Your initial question was
>What was justified with time travel in cross.

The answer : Absolutely fucking everything was justified with that, and the worse offender is that it doesn't even happen in the game.
That's why it's hack writing. That's what hack writers do. Their story is shit save for a few "plot twists" like "X character is actually Y" and they will justify with
clonage/time travel/reincarnation/some-sort of pseudoscience.
Read the VNs written by that hack called Kotaro Uchikoshi, you're gonna laugh your ass-off. He uses it absolutely *everywhere*

>> No.6459559

Cut out a huge section of the cast to allow more double and triple tecs and rewrite the story to have less obnoxious info dumps.

>> No.6459561

It's fine if you love WTF plots that are written under crack. I love Chrono Cross. It feels like I'm taking a big fat dump on it, but I love it.
It's just that... loving something doesn't mean it's good everywhere.

The story of chrono cross isn't good.. What is good is *how* this story is presented throughout the game, the exploration of the dead sea/chronopolis is awesome and what they represent too.
But the plot? The story? Nope it's bad. It's not clever. Do you find Bioshock infinite clever? No you don't, it's the same.

>> No.6459661

No I'm not. This was my exact quote.

>>Where did they even fucking time travel...?

They = the party.

You literally typed something I didn't say go fuck yourself.

>> No.6459673

Your exact quote was >>6458136

"What was justified with time travel in cross.

Where did they even fucking time travel...?"

I just didn't paste everything. Keep moving the goalposts all you want, you BTFO'd yourself

>> No.6459675
File: 389 KB, 1284x980, 1545597599595.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

CCfags retconning their own posts like CC retcons CT lmao

>> No.6459678

>Except not really because that doesn't explain Radical Dreamers which came out a year after CT.
It absolutely does: Sakaguchi and Horii were barely involved with RD.

>> No.6459737

I remember it taking like 30 minutes to defeat the most any boss, particularly the dwarves’ tank, but that’s because it was suck at babbies first jrpg

>> No.6459903

the different options in cc always felt good and added layers of replay value for me, i feel like people hate extra characters because theyre tied to those options instead of the "too many characters" meme, i can imagine a completionist dropping the game immediately for that

>> No.6459941

I'd just cut out all ties to the Chrono series and its overarching plot and make the game completely its own thing. Most people who enjoy CC far prefer the comfy tropical island adventure of its first half to the dimension hopping time travel fuckery of its second half, so let the former side be the entire game. I'd write a completely original backstory and mythos for the Draconians, the Dragon God, the Frozen Flame, Lynx, and Harle. I'd rename Porre to something else and make their presence as a world power far more sensible. I'd make the Radical Dreamers an actual group you meet in the story and write a plot that ties them, Kid, and Lynx together. Maybe their leader finds kid after she runs away from her burnt-down orphanage or something. Kid would also have a completely different backstory - one that still ties her to Lynx and gives the latter reason to pursue her, without any of the Schala reincarnation bullshit.

>> No.6459987

What about the dead sea/Chronopolis?

Those two areas are fucking awesome you can change their backstories as well.
I think the whole deal about FATE terraforming El Nido needs to be kept

I'd play your Chrono cross

>> No.6460138

>What about the dead sea/Chronopolis?
I don't think a place like that would fit a story without time travel or dimension hopping. Chrono Cross's world substitutes geographic scale for chronological scale. It justifies having wildly different locales being in close proximity to one another by having them come from multiple timelines and dimensions which have interacted on multiple occasions in Chrono Cross's batshit clusterfuck of a story. I wouldn't want any of that nonsense in my proposed Chrono Cross. I want it to have more geographic scale and a story that's less convoluted and obtuse.

That being said, I do think stuff like the Dragonians and FATE should be kept in some regard. Maybe some of their aspects can serve as ideas for two advanced ancient civilizations that fought each other for control of the world through possession of the Frozen Flame. One of them created the six elemental dragons and the other side created some facsimiles of FATE and Chronopolis. Their last and most deadly war reduced both civilizations to small tribes of people living in remote corners of the world.

I think it would be neat if Kid was the last survivor of my version of the Dragonians. The rest of her tribe would be wiped out during not-Porre's conquests and she would be taken to some orphanage by a not-Porrean soldier or something. Meanwhile, Lynx - who should probably look more like his Radical Dreamers design - would be a descendant of my version of the Chronopolis civilization and be looking for Kid to try and use her inherited powers or some shit to find and utilize the Frozen Flame.

I know this is all cringey fan fiction bullshit, but these are just some ideas I came up with.

>> No.6460458

I'm going to fuck your mother so hard it will retcon you out of existence.

>> No.6460464

I'm sorry I dont really care I just want to see how long I can keep this thread going because I know it annoys Chrono Shitter fans.

>> No.6460469


>> No.6460475

I mean the thread seems mostly reasonable but sure, I guess.

>> No.6461583


>> No.6462189

I noticed two things in the game that are entirely unexplained to me. I've looked it up and can't find any references to the two things anywhere online.
Thing one: when you're in Guldove and Mel walks in with the cat, the cat has a Lynx shadow overlaid on it. Said cat is not referenced, noticed or even shown again after this scene.
Thing two: in the Dead Sea, where you encounter the dragoons frozen in time, there's one dragoon wearing red and what looks like a blue ribbon. Looks kinda like that little girl character from FF9. Can't remember her name, something-ko, but you know who I mean. Right side of the screen, lower-center. Who tf is that s'posed to be? Do I need screen caps to show you what I'm talking about or have any of you noticed this shit, too?

>> No.6462209

>Do I need screen caps to show you what I'm talking about
I'd like to, please. I know a lot about CC and I missed those details

>> No.6462217
File: 365 KB, 800x480, Screenshot_2019-08-31-11-35-32.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Here's one. I've got a few others. Gimme a sec. I'm having problems with posting pics for some reason.

>> No.6462223

Who thought it was a good idea to have a game with tons of characters but only allow three party members at a time?

>> No.6462227

Masato Kato is trying to prevent you from revealing the truth

>> No.6462234

The hell? I don't remember this at all

>> No.6462235
File: 319 KB, 540x602, Druckmann JUST.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It really subverted my expectations

>> No.6462237
File: 362 KB, 800x480, Screenshot_2019-08-31-11-38-46.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Second one. There's a third, if the goshdarn thing'll post.

>> No.6462248
File: 365 KB, 800x480, Screenshot_2019-08-31-11-36-13.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well waddaya know! Got it. Now for the one with the mystery character.

>> No.6462260
File: 420 KB, 800x480, Screenshot_2019-09-08-12-53-01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

This third in >>6462248 shows the shadow turning into the cat. The next scene has Mel running in, grabbing the cat and running away with it. I don't have a screen cap of that, tho. Anyway, here's the character.

>> No.6462270

I just realised it's supposed to be Zoah, isn't it? Hurrdurr, I'm dumb. Still, the cat's a mystery, ain't it?

>> No.6462317

Yeah it's ZOAH
But Nice catch for the cat. I guess it was going to be a plot point about Lynx sending minions to spy on you

>> No.6462426

Mebbe, but I'd like some WoG on this. Masato Kato needs to tell us wtf the cat is. Someone who can read/write Nipponaise needs to ask him directly. He prolly has a Twitter account, so one o' y'all find it and ask the mofo.

>> No.6462614
File: 27 KB, 320x224, Serge_as_Lynx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I forgot to mention it but Chrono Cross is one of the few games that also has the guts to completely toy with the established identity of the player character, or Serge. You body swap with the villain that's been opposing you, and you're probably thinking this can't last that long... But no, you become at least via appearance Lynx and the game stays that way for quite some time. To top it all off, when you WERE Serge, you were transported to a dimension where everyone thinks Serge is dead and no one believes you to be that Serge and when you can finally get back to the world that acknowledges Serge as a living person you have that sense of familiarity completely robbed from you by the game forcing you to be Lynx. Which makes the scene where Serge finally reclaims his own self all the more rewarding.

>> No.6462628

Don't forget that "Serge" is supposed to be "you", I mean, he has all this backstory and a childhood friend and all... But if he is silent, it's so that you can project onto him, give him a name and everything... The ending of the game makes it very clear by directly talking to "you", the player.
That's honestly pretty cool... And now that I think about it, it makes Harle's teasing even more meaningful :

Harle tells you that you aren't Serge, that you are Lynx, merely believing that he is Serge... that there was no "soul" exchanging bodies, merely a swap of memories.
Give then fact, that you, as a player, literally inherent Lynx, that you pour your memories of having played as Serge onto him... well. The rest is up to you

>> No.6462652
File: 37 KB, 600x585, weebey.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Harle tells you that you aren't Serge, that you are Lynx, merely believing that he is Serge... that there was no "soul" exchanging bodies, merely a swap of memories.
>that you, as a player, literally inherent Lynx, that you pour your memories of having played as Serge onto him... well. The rest is up to you
I honestly forgot about that but you're right.

>> No.6462749

The gameplay makes it very clear... And I find that part of the "twist" the most brillant.
The FMV of Serge getting mindfucked plays... Then the scene returns to the game... It's silent... You don't know what the fuck happened, and you still think you're serge so you move towards Lynx...
And then, instead, Lynx move towards the back of the room instead
The music plays back, a dark tune.

10/10, everything was conveyed through the player alone.

>> No.6463181
File: 274 KB, 640x1440, fear of a black cat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


It's revealed at the very beginning that Serge used to have a deathly fear of cats, trauma induced when he was attacked by a panther demon at age 7 or 8. That fear along with the memory of the panther attack subsided as he grew older and eventually forgotten, until the confrontation of Lynx at the mansion. The scene with the cat is supposed to show that his memories of that traumatic event are beginning to stir in him, causing hallucinations. Much later, he hazily dreams about the panther aboard the pirate ship.

I suppose lazily using the same shadow cat model for that scene obscures a bit what is supposed to be happening.

>> No.6463187

Thanks for the clarification.
The beginning of Cross is great, giving crucial bits of info through NPCs in an organic way

>> No.6463195

Does Sergiepoo flich when the cat comes in at that scene or nah? Cuz if he doesn't, well... there goes your headcannon theory.

>> No.6463197

>Does he flich
Does he flinch^^

>> No.6463229

He backs away. Korcha then calls him out on it, saying it was just a cat.

starts at 06:48

>> No.6463253

Fuck off Poshul

>> No.6463270

My mystery (>>6462217 >>6462248 >>6462237) has been solved! Danke, freunde.

>> No.6463278

Why ith Anoniepoo being tho mean to I? All me do ith use my pretty miracle power X to thave the day!

>> No.6463282

I love you Poshul

>> No.6463295

I actually love Poshul. When I was a kid, I had a stuffed animal, a pink/orange (idk wtf to call the colour... it was pink-ish orange) dog. It's from a kid's show from childhood. Italian. Can't remember what it was called.
Anyway, Poshul looks like that character, so there's always been a tinge of nostalgia to her for me.

>> No.6463337
File: 71 KB, 1280x720, bG1WkLfCsBI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not that y'all care, but I looked it up. It was called Bim Bum Bam and the character's name was Uan. Since he's pretty much synonymous with the 80s for us, looks like he was used in an Italian commercial for Stranger Things last year. Here he is about to crush a Coke can with his mind a la Eleven.

>> No.6464523

It's fun to know.

>> No.6464545

>Chrono Cross is one of the few games that also has the guts to completely toy with the established identity of the player character
And in FFVII the main character dies before the game even begins and you play as a weirdo loser with schizophrenia who steals his persona. Good ideas both. On paper.
And none of that makes any of the games' scripts any good. Fancy that.

>> No.6464550

Serge is my name and all of my friends kept accusing me of naming the fucking protagonist after myself, which was profoundly haram in the post-FFVII era. They just wouldn't believe me when I said that was the default name. And we didn't know that Google was a thing yet, so we couldn't even check until I found a PS magazine with a Chrono Cross article. It was such an uphill battle for me, but they just said, whatever.

>> No.6464557

>The beginning of Cross is great, giving crucial bits of info through NPCs in an organic way
...just like in every JRPG ever, the original Dragon Quest included.

>> No.6464565

Let's fix Chrono Cross.

I'll start. Increase the party limit to 4-5 characters

>> No.6464573

2. Hire a real game designer.
3. Hire a real writer.

>> No.6464607

The main character IS the weirdo loser with schizophrenia though, not Zack. He ended becoming a far greater hero than Zack ever was anyway, and it does make the script good.

>> No.6464612

Actually give time for Masato Kato to finish the story instead of rushing the game out the door, he actually had some really brilliant ideas, like how the game explored more the ramifications of what happens to the future that could've been when the future is changed. I genuinely like the somber tone he had which juxtaposed the idealistic bright art style the game had, also give Magus' role back into the story.

>> No.6464653

4. Kys

>> No.6464658

Everyone who does matter is fleshed out though. It does have a lot of extra characters who add little/nothing to the narrative who don't detract from anything at all, it's such a bizarre non-complaint about the game that keeps getting repeated.

>> No.6464660

Include tickle scenes

>> No.6464684

It's too bad Kato fucked up by making the entire thing the plot of an omniscient mastermind.
But maybe he did that because he couldn't finish the story and he had to think of an easy way out. Who knows...

The only characters who matter are

The dragoons? They flesh out chrono cross: the world, but not chrono cross: the story. It's not a non-complain, because it's also not a T-RPG. You can only add two of all these characters in your team because Serge cannot be replaced.

And, you probably want to add Kid/Harle because they're the most important characters to the plot, otherwise you end up travelling with people who follow Serge... just because. And it's exactly what happens during the chronopolis event. I had Norris and Karsh in my team. And hile they're fleshed out, they have no reason to care about this futuristic city from the future, or even saving Harle.

>> No.6464686 [SPOILER] 
File: 550 KB, 850x1172, 1590410712589.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

5. more lewds

>> No.6464689

Let's not forget about the Alien that you recruit as a joke, and then he ends up being super important because without him you cannot fly to Terra Tower. It's just bizarre.
In Shining force you can have 30+ characters but almost all of them with join you in battle and even if they don't, all of them have a legit reason to join your party (except for Yogurt or that monk... But they're the minority, unlike CC)

>> No.6464698

This. I'd much rather see Lucca as a frail old granny just chilling in the future than having her unceremoniously killed off camera.

>> No.6464841

Remove Belthasar's and all his keikaku 4D chess fuckery, but keep the time crash in some form so we can still have the ludo dead sea and chronopolis sections.
Have the game focus more on the issue of identity between the parallel worlds and Serge/Lynx like it does in the first half.
Add in Magil and do something to fix the Schala/Kid bullshit. I really don't even know how to fix this without removing it, but doing that would render Magil's presence moot so idk.
Either remove all references to Dinopolis and Terra Tower or give them some ounce of development on screen. For how important this is to the plot, iirc they are never actually seen once in the entire game outside of the dragons.
Aside from that, it's alright. I'd say Chrono Cross is more about the journey than the destination, because it has a lot of cool moments and ideas like FATE that fall apart in the end.

>> No.6464853

Based post.
It's 100% true

>> No.6465112


Like I said earlier in the the

>> No.6465160

Harle should've joined or left you depending on your answer to that famous question on the Zelbess and a sort of affection system.

"If you could, would you save me, or the world?"
I replied "I don't know..." and she said she knew I would said that.
Apparently, if you choose Harle instead of the world she doesn't believe you. It's heartbreaking

>> No.6465882
File: 1.43 MB, 2109x2100, 90389.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Can't justify a roster that doesn't include Glenn, sorry. As the up-and-coming dragoon who realizes something's rotten in Nido, he's your knowledgeable Acacia insider with an axe to grind and an ideal to live up to. And the perfect voice of reason who would pair well with Kid's smarmy attitude.

Personally, I think it would have made more sense if he was the one to lead the team into the manor, instead of waiting until the it was breached to have a crisis of duty and wanting to investigate.

>> No.6465894
File: 2.26 MB, 370x250, xstrike.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

also, dat double tech

>> No.6466180

No ties to Trigger beyond vauge references to "a terrible creature that threatened the world was defeated by a band of legendary heroes"

>> No.6466261

Can anyone else confirm this cause it's been like 20 years since I played this game but I remember on a new game+ file if you have Serge equipped with the spectra swallow when the Lynx bodyswap happens that you get a rainbow colored scythe for the battle that happens?
Also It's great that if you win that battle Kid just gets up, slowly walks up to you and gives you a little poke and you lose anyways

>> No.6466314
File: 163 KB, 700x385, COME ON AND SLAM AND WELCOME TO THE JAM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

it does !

>> No.6466337
File: 2.07 MB, 1995x1450, Best Magic Cave(1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Does the Dream Devourer ending on the DS retcon Chrono Cross?
Magus in that fight wipes his memory and ends up as Guile but in the True ending of CT, he doesnt. Almost makes me wonder if Radical Dreamers is now the intended followup to Trigger, since Magus remembers the old team.

>> No.6466745

Well, I've got a better question: would you play a graphical, honest-to-goodness walking around version of Radical Dreamers?

>> No.6466763

Fuck yeah I would, but it doesnt mean you dont answer my post when you do it.

>> No.6466821

The addition of the DS version are kinda shitty. Yes, it retcons Chrono cross a bit.
RD is a better sequel of CT anyway. Magus finally finds out about his sis, he finds closure and Kid & Serge end up together = The end.

Also >>6466745

>> No.6467146

The game didn't treat Chrono trigger as something sacred, this makes people mad

>> No.6467939
File: 60 KB, 450x262, chrono01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I think some of the facts are not that obscure:

>It was about 4 years ago that Sakaguchi, Horii, and Toriyama started talking about making an RPG together. At that time, it was more of an offhand, casual thing, like “hey, wouldn’t it be great if we could all work together on something?”

> In fact, almost no one from the Secret of Mana development worked on Chrono Trigger.

Somethings look exagerated. It would be nice to have a tread dedicated to the development of this game.

>> No.6467968

I'm sorry. I didn't know how to answer your question as I've never gotten that far in the DS version. Once I found Fetchquest Falls, I NOPEd the fuck out.
Best I can do is say that IMPO, both RD and CC are direct sequels to CT in much the same way that both Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment are direct sequels to Persona: different timelines. CC is the result of that ending you described. RD is the result of some other ending I don't know about. Does that make sense?

>> No.6467970

How would that even work? There are no towns or money etc in RD. It'd be an awfully short 'walking around' game.

>> No.6467991

Glenn being the guy who gets you into the manor, especially after the way he was introduced into the story would make a fuck of a lot more sense, really, just like if Magus himself was responsible for undoing all this shit instead of Belthasar.

I've just always been bothered by the fact to recruit Glenn, who is by all accounts the best buddy to have in the big battles, you have to not only leave Kid for dead by admitting you don't know what to do --when faced with finding a non-existent cure for her poison-- and furthermore if you get Glenn, you cannot save Razzuli who is more than likely eaten by a fucking monster offscreen because of the plot divergence.

I literally cannot think of any other divergent recruitment where picking one character leads to someone else up and dying. But then again the dwarves and fairies subplot of this game felt the most fucked up, poorly thought out and hollow ringing segment trying to prop up the narrative's man v. nature themes.

>> No.6468000

>tfw you never got Glenn because Kid is your waifu and you can't let her die, even for a moment or spend the game without her.

>> No.6468025

>I can't relate

me neither...i loved it

>> No.6468574

>Does the Dream Devourer ending on the DS retcon Chrono Cross?

Huh? How? If anything it sets up Magus = Guile better. Also there doesn't seem to be an intended outcome. Without Home and Another everything would be fucked.

>> No.6468746

It retcons Chrono Cross being the default sequel to Trigger because it now relies on Magus erasing his memory to become Guile to create that timeline.
Radical Dreamers timeline doesn't. Magil in that game is the same Magus we know from Trigger since he never altered his memories. He even reminisces briefly about the old team halfway in the game, wheres Guile doesn't at all.

Those circumstances were muddied until the DS Port came into existence, where it managed to very loosely tie Cross into existence, and it can be interpreted that the events of Cross now only exist because of the Dream Devourer ending.

>> No.6469931


>> No.6470246

the game's script dump reveals a line that suggests Glenn was originally recruit-able in the save Kid route:
>Kid: Glenn, what was it you were sayin' earlier? Somethin' 'bout goin' to see an old man on a small island to the east...
>Glenn: First, head north and then east by boat. There is a small island there. A retired dragoon named Radius lives on that island.

Context: On either route, after returning to Termina w/ or w/o Kid, you'd try to leave via the town's entrance only to have Glenn stop you. You talk for a bit and afterwards he suggests visiting the Hideaway and leaves. At this point you'd return to the docks and ask Korcha/Macha to borrow the boat. If Kid's with you she'd ask Serge about what Glenn said earlier in order to point the player in the right direction, but these unused lines suggest Glenn would be right there to ask directly. He only shows up at this point in the 'no Kid' route asking to borrow the boat and is where you can recruit him.

Sounds like it was possible to already have him in your party, possibly recruited at the entrance or even earlier.

>> No.6471228

>Person shits on the FF7 story but doesn't actually understand it and makes an ass of himself
Imagine my shock.

>> No.6471231

Because only a complete pussy starved beta would choose saving a girl over the world. Serge is a muscular chad with four different girls lusting after him so he's definitely not that.

>> No.6473362

Which four would they be? Leena. Kid. Harle. Who's the other one?

>> No.6473395

Cross is a great game. Its biggest problem is that it didn't get its sequel to save crono and marle and kill Dalton. Other questions like what happened to the frozen flame or what cursed the masamune.

Also people that complain about cross's character don't remember that the characters in trigger weren't that complex either.

>> No.6473731

Lisa. There's even an ending where Serge settles down with her

>> No.6473902

The thing that’s most telling about why I dislike Chrono Cross is it’s battle theme. Fantastic soundtrack. Yet you’re stuck listening to that awful callback from Radical Dreamers. It’s overshadows all of the good and you’re always reminded of how bad it is. Now, apply that to other aspects and areas of the game from its narrative, art direction, pacing, storyline, scope... every aspect of Chrono Cross for how good it is has similar sticking points that severely drag it down rather than building it up in the gestalt sense of being greater than the sun of its parts. It will always be a collection of parts. That said i regularly listen to select tracks from its OST.

>> No.6474286

I'm honestly baffled by how many people have a problem with Gale, it's not that bad. I do wish there were more battle themes like "Dragon God" though

>> No.6474287

Ooooh. I forgot about her and about that ending. Lisa is best waifu. Shame her dad is worst party member.

>> No.6476409

FATE battle music best battle music.

>> No.6476753
File: 778 KB, 1800x1320, 8V9SZk9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Is it true that violin samples weren't used much in PS1 game music back then because the hardware was horrible at making them sound authentic until Mitsuda asked one the studio's sound programmers to find a way to make it work for his CC soundtrack? And that same programmer got it working the very next day with little overhead?

I thought I remembered reading an excerpt or article about this factoid online but for years was unable to find it again. Also not sure if true about the violin thing, though I have no examples of other PS1 games that had 'em in the ost.

>> No.6476779

>it's such a bizarre non-complaint about the game that keeps getting repeated.

I noticed that for some games you will see people repeat something sd nauseam like this. It makes me feel like they only think this because other people keep repeating it and not because they actually thought it themselves. At least for some people.

It's all just them trying justify their belief thst 'Its not Chrono Trigget so its bad.'

It's also a videogame. I never understood how people criticize a story or characters on a videogame literally no game has ever come close to real literature.

>> No.6477190

>never understood how people criticize a story or characters on a videogame literally no game has ever come close to real literature.

Not when said video game has clear pretentious to streer the medium towards something more than mere entertainment. Criticizing the story in Zelda is silly... Not in a 32-bits JRPG with philosophical undertones (the game even quotes Nietzsche)
Also, if the people complain about the characters... It might be because it's a legitimate complain. It's not a T-RPG or even Pokemon.

By refusing to acknowledge the game's blatant pitfalls you're not doing it a service... Because Chrono Cross has a lot of good points, but the bad ones, are bad.

>> No.6477342

Except those flaws are just a matter of taste and not objective flaws I unironically love the 45 character thing

>> No.6477347

>no game has ever come close to real literature.
I always hear this a lot but it generally comes from people who probably don't read very much literature. Not everything that's written is super profound either, I'd say that when discussing the whole of science fiction and fantasy stories written, there are obviously some famous science fiction and fantasy books that are probably better written than Chrono Cross, but Chrono Cross isn't without merit, the story and set up is genuinely interesting on the onset and if it were book form, I'd probably consider it worth a read. Not every game is going to be like that of course but this impossibly high standard for what should and shouldn't be considered "real" literature is quite ridiculous.

>> No.6477351

I really dont wanna play it now lol. is it that bad?

>> No.6477357

You should play it and decide how it is for yourself instead forming your opinion from some random post on the internet.

>> No.6477390

reminds me of getter robo DESU

>> No.6477398

A lot of extra useless characters are objective flaws when the point of your game is to tell a deep, reflexive story about the greediness of mankind, the complexity and dangerosity of time travel and what it means to be "you", as an individual. Because it muddies the waters. Magus literally couldn't be in the game because they added garbage like skelly or Poshul who add nothing to the plot or the themes of the game.

It's not even well implemented since you can only add 2 characters in battle. Just because you like something doesn't mean is good.
Likewise, just because you hate something doesn't mean it's bad. I wrote these posts btw
So it's not like I hate Chrono Cross. I love that game

>> No.6477413

Play Radical Dreamers first. Then play Chrono Cross. I cannot emphasize this enough.

>> No.6477481

Cool subjective opinion.

>> No.6477507
File: 842 KB, 540x960, Chrono Emblem.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>40+ characters
>can only have two in your active party minus Serge/Lynx

would the game have benefited more if it were developed as a sim-RPG hybrid? That way you can have massive parties about 10 or more, taking on the Acacia Dragoons in skirmishes and making headway only for the Porre army to come in and get involved...

>> No.6478082

>cool *objective* opinion

>> No.6478154

extremely based. thanks for the reminder to not judge games before playing.

>> No.6478159

where can I play radical dreamers? I thoght it was impossible because of the satalite service it was based on going down.

>> No.6478178

Roms exist.

>> No.6478187

is it an snes rom? and is it in english?

>> No.6478226

I swear this games composer was inspired by Kansas.

>> No.6478265

There's a fully translated Radical Dreamers rom for the satellaview, I remember it being included in the pack that included every SNES/Famicon rom on the internet archive, but you can also download it on dedicated rom hosting sites, and there's one that's already be fan translated into english

>> No.6478409

I'm not sure, but the samples in Cross are exceptionally great for a PS1 title outside of the electric guitar which is meh.
Just compare the stringed instrument portions of

It's night and day.

>> No.6478559

Yes and yes. I have it.

>> No.6479006

Even party switching mid battle wouldve improved it a lot.

But I'm weird I liked the 45 characters and I got really attached the the characters I chose regardless of the lack of story.

Imagine a dating sim chrono cross lol

>> No.6479253

>Imagine a dating sim chrono cross lol
I fucking wish....
Kid... Harle........................................

>> No.6479261

Is it me... Or this is better than the chrono cross version?
It feels sadder, somehow

>> No.6479448

Has there ever been another game that performed well enough, but still killed its series?

>> No.6479645

I know what you me. To me both versions are great in their own way, and this song no matter which version I hear makes me feel emotions..

>> No.6480540

Demon's Crest killed the Gargoyle's Quest series.
Point Blank 2 killed the series of Namco sports games with RPG modes.
Super Adventure Island 3 (? or was it 2?) killed the Adventure Island series.
Monster World IV killed the Monster World/Wonder Boy series (remakes don't count).
Whichever one was the last Contra game, it killed the Contra series. Was it Hard Corps? Or one of the SNES ones?
Robbit Mon Dieu killed the Jumping Flash series.
There're prolly several more 'zamples, but those're the ones which came immediately to mind.

>> No.6480546

>Whichever one was the last Contra game, it killed the Contra series. Was it Hard Corps? Or one of the SNES ones?
It was Contra 4 for DS.

>> No.6480547

Remove Contra from that list. There were several more additions to the series beyond the 4th gen. 5th, 6th and even 7th gen had entries. Maybe current gen, too, but idfk.

>> No.6480553

Rogue Corps came out just before Christmas 2019, homie.

>> No.6480891

Kid is too hot, so you are left with a single character slot for ONE of the hundreds of fucking characters that join. It makes me feel anxious.

>> No.6481882

I just used Starky because I love giant robots

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