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/vr/ - Retro Games


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6432308 No.6432308 [Reply] [Original]

what was behind the push to threat all 2D as worthless as soon as the first 3D consoles came along? was it anxiety to demonstrate that vidya wasn't only for kiddies? how did the press and normies go from playing and loving 2D for decades to hate it once Ridge Racer was released for the PSX?

>> No.6432316

>>6432308
It was new.

Seriously, I can’t reiterate that enough. No one cared how bad it looked, as long as a 3rd axis was involved people ate that shit up.

>> No.6432327
File: 919 KB, 500x394, wonderpj2ss.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6432327

Yeah, basically it was the novelty.
I'll paste something I wrote for another thread:
4th gen consoles were already a matured stage of 2D gaming, which had already been exploited a lot during 3rd gen, and was finally peaked during 4th gen.
5th gen is what people wanted at the time. It's very hard to explain to someone who wasn't there at the time, but people were stuffed on 2D games - you know how right now 2D is very charming and everyone loves them? Well, around 1995 or 1996, people just took great 2D for granted, it wasn't nostalgic, because it was still present, and it wasn't impressive anymore, because it's what people have been playing for years and years. Sure, games like Marvel VS Capcom were great to see with all these fluid animations and big sprites, but the general attitude was like, OK, we're ready for the next new thing.
3D was still in its experimental stage and people were hyped beyond horizons for it. It turned out, while 3D was very exciting at the time, it didn't live up to our exaggerated and delusional expectations. Thinking that video games could look "like movies" was actually something that made your mind run wild, but then when we finally got that... yeah, we wanted to go back to the sweet 2D and its videogame-y feel.
5th gen was rustic and is now primitive, but I still think it has its place in video game history, and for what it's worth, even with its low resolutions, low polycount and limited performance, some game developers went the extra mile and really crafted some works that are still hard to surpass today. The benefit 5th gen had is that 3D game engines weren't as homogenized yet, and many developers crafted their games from scratch, which many times it resulted in unplayable garbage, but some times, some devs were able to deliver unique experiences that just can't be replicated with today's advanced tech, because it has to do with craftsmanship rather than on-paper tech.

>> No.6432378

>>6432308
It was a selling point sure but 2D wasn't hated. I was just a new feature. Not sure what magazine you pulled that from but from the language used it appears to be some idiot bong. Almost all early 5th gen 3D games on PSX had fmv, which was another selling point/new thing. Back then more people talked about how cool fmv was than 3D. The Saturn had some and the N64, lacking capacity had very little. The N64 was talked about negativly as the Switch is today for being underpowered.

>> No.6432386

>>6432308
Where's that pic from?
I remember this Nintendo Mexican magazine (Club Nintendo) where they stated that the True Crime games where better because the GTA franchise was stagnating and it was to violent, this was published in a review for TC: New York City less than a year after fucking GTA: San Andreas, like WTF?

>> No.6432390
File: 224 KB, 1280x720, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6432390

Things never change.

>> No.6432426

>>6432378
>The N64 was talked about negativly as the Switch is today for being underpowered.
Wut? The N64 was praised for its more powerful 3D than either 32-bit PS1 and Saturn.
It was criticized for lacking CD-ROM (and thus, FMVs), not for being underpowered. Even PC magazines at the time of the N64 release praised it, as it wasn't until late 1996 that PC got the first 3dfx voodoo graphic card.

>> No.6432475

I remember reading an interview to Philip Harrison in a spanish magazine around 1995 about the first batch of games for PS1 and the journalist saying to him that if having Parodius games released for the console wasn't a "step back". I liked polygons but that question made me angry even back then. Those kind of statements were not the norm but still I remember 2D games being somewhat ignored until late 90s games like Street Fighter 3, Marvel vs Capcom or Metal Slug started coming out and brought back a certain interest again.

>> No.6432503

>>6432308
>what was behind the push to threat all 2D as worthless as soon as the first 3D consoles came along?

Money. Mario 64 made a fortune and crushed the entier 2D market. Everyone wanted their Mario 64 Clone. Stupid Bastards. 2D went out of style way too soon. N64 was made for Quality 2D titles and it barely got anything.

>> No.6432509

>>6432308
At the time, it was novelty.
Nowadays, it's easier to do 3d than 2d because of the intensive and peculiar nature of sprite art.

Which sucks because I love 2d aesthetics compared to pseudo-2d where it's just a 3d model forced into a 2d plane.

>> No.6432618

>>6432308
my god, are you this same nigger on the "History/what if" thread who got blown the fuck out already?
see:
>>6430361
>>6430373
>>6430392
>>6430415

2D was outdated by mid-late 90s. That doesn't mean 2D is *bad* per se, it's just how it was. Imagine someone using cartridges in 6th/7th gen, for example.

>> No.6432708
File: 33 KB, 713x489, n64ad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6432708

>>6432378
>The N64 was talked about negativly as the Switch is today for being underpowered.
pic related is the n64 launch ad campaign.
Were you around at the time? Because that was not how it was.
("just a few years ago, this was cutting edge...2D... ), a few seconds in, below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZsDwdUqPw0

>> No.6432736

I remember in particular Game Players magazine had a large hateboner for 2D games once 3D came along, no matter how good the game actually was or how bad the 3D game was.

>> No.6432780

>>6432308
>that autistic nintendie who still genuinely believes this and now shitposts on /vr/

>> No.6432789

>>6432780
>nintendie
Hi /v/.
Also learn to read, OP is basically the contrary of believing it, and is calling out the reviewer from that mag scan.

>> No.6432845

>>6432378
>>6432386
The fact that "rubbish" is used guarantees it's British, 100%.

>> No.6432854

>>6432426
When games were released on N64 and PSX ,RE2 for example, guess which version was superior? Underpowered was a poor choice of words on my part. The N64 was held back by it's cart format. This is why Square and many other 3rd party devs abandoned it but /vr/ already knows this.

>> No.6432863

>>6432854
Alright, yeah the cart format was always criticized, especially back then when FMVs was a huge factor. Nowadays, people appreciate the lack of loading times, though.
As for RE2, I wouldn't say the PS1 version is superior. RE2 on N64 still looks great on a CRT, and has surround sound effects, still the only version of RE2 with it actually. I wouldn't choose the PS1 version over N64, it's like the most vanilla one.
Anyway, RE2 on N64 came out years after PS1, and then we got even better versions, such as Dreamcast.

>> No.6432874

>>6432708
Yes I was. I bought a Playstation on launch. I have no idea what you guys did in Bongland but the N64 was an afterthought here in the US. It was late to the party and aside from Mario it didn't have much to offer. Using carts was seen as backwards and outdated at the time.

>> No.6432887

>>6432874
Using carts was seen as outated, yes.
But you're being a revisionist zoomer if you think the N64 was an afterthought in the US, since N64 sold the most in USA.
>muh Mario
probably most people played Goldeneye, you'd remember if you were actually alive.
You bought a playstation at launch... yeah, a Playstation 3 maybe.

>> No.6432904

>>6432390
That’s actually impressive.

>> No.6432915

>>6432904
The reality is that it will be unfinished and buggy as a full game.

>>6432618
Capcom and a few other giants were still releasing big hits in 2D well into the early 2000's.

>> No.6432917

>>6432904
I wish I could be wowed by CGI again... I just keep seeing brown shit that tries to be realistic but my brain can still detect uncanny shit. I just want good, creative art direction, not realism.

>> No.6432956

>>6432789
Spotted the autistic nintendie

>> No.6432963

>>6432956
I'm way too old for console war shit actually, much less zoomer /v/ stuff.
If anything, I'm a colecofag

>> No.6432989

>>6432887
Almost every console sells better in the US. There's hundreds of millions of people here. I was 21 when the PSX launched. I didn't have much time to play it because of life situations. When my wife had our first kid in '96 I took time off and played RE1 which had recently released. I still have the long box RE and a dozen other long box games and the same console. Stop with the zoomer shit. I've been gaming for decades, faggot. My first console was a 2600, still have that too.

>> No.6432994

>>6432308
Sony, Microsoft and many Western game developers seen 3D games as an opportunity to steal the video game industry from Japan. So they all conspired together, with the help of Western media, to brainwash the Western consumer to believe that 3d was far superior to 2d, and that 2d games were outdated tech that should be discarded like that beat up black and white TV set in your grandma's attic.

Without 3D games, Sony, Microsoft and many Western game developers would not be in the video game business today.

>> No.6433020

>>6432989
>I was 21 when the PSX launched. I didn't have much time to play it because of life situations
Alright then I can see how you may have thought that if you were generally distanced from video games. N64 was definitely a huge deal, even though yes, carts were outdated, and people complained about the times when there wasn't any big game released for N64, while PS1 got a lot of new games every month, but that's still a far cry from being an after thought.
One of the reasons N64 was popular in USA was because N64 actually catered to older american arcade players, which is why Nintendo teamed up with companies like Midway and Williams. Of course the japanese nintendo stuff had appeal worldwide, but in USA, a lot of the hype for the N64 came from those western arcade developers.
I don't think the N64 (or Nintendo in general) are very popular in the UK. If anything, that's probably the least Nintendrone region in the world.

>> No.6433029

>>6432994
Even if you're shitposting, you're not entirely wrong.
Sony being a case of being a very schizophrenic company. It's Japanese, but many of its directives are westerners, not to mention the share holders.
I love vidya conspiracies. I still believe Bernie Stolar was a Microsoft agent sabotaging both Sony and Sega.

>> No.6433057

>>6433020
I wasn't that removed from gaming as I played video games when I had free time (little that it was) and gamed with the kids when they got older. I have boxes of magazines from the late 80's,90's and early 00's so I kept up with things before the web. It is a big country and perhaps it was a regional thing. I'll give you that.

>> No.6433140

>>6433029
>I still believe Bernie Stolar was a Microsoft agent sabotaging both Sony and Sega.
There's probably some truth to this conspiracy theory. After all, all of these corporate bigwigs are members of the "Big Club" (as George Carlin called it), and most members of the Big Club are in the US, and so is Microsoft. So MS is most likely the video game HQ of the Big Club, and Bernie being Jewish, meant that he was almost certainly in cahoots with their agenda, because "Jewish" is one of many masks they like to wear.

>> No.6433182

>>6432917
same, i think its peaked. We were on this journey, we kept getting wowed every 5 years by progress and now.... nothing. I feel nothing

>>6432863
I think Resi 2 came out on n64 in 1999, and on ps1 in 1998. So one year, not years.

>>6432874
>>6432378
>>6432989
i simply do not believe you are in your 40s and your first console was a 2600 if you continually use words like "bong". Nice LARP mate.. you are talking out of your ARSE, everybody knew n64 was the most powerful console in 5th gen.

>> No.6433279

>>6433182
>we kept getting wowed every 5 years by progress and now.... nothing. I feel nothing
I reached this point with the PS2 era. While everyone was raving about GTA III and similar games, I was playing Gradius V and Contra Shattered Soldier.

>> No.6433337

>>6432308
>nobody gives a flying fuck about some shitty early 3d castlevania these days whilst SotN helped start a new genre
Wow this snippet didnt stand the test of time now did it

>> No.6433428

>>6432308
Because everyone swallowed the hype and no one wanted to "look stupid", so they towed the line and fed into the hype. Also, those journalists are more interested in keeping their jobs and getting paid, so they go with the flow and hype whatever is on top at the moment. They were all, of course, wrong. 2D fucking rules and there is no reason it and 3D can't exist side by side, as was proven later by the libraries of all the systems.

>> No.6433435

>>6433337
To be fair, in recent years SOTN has been getting some flak for its lack of challenge and broken shit, while CV64 has been getting a little more recognition.
If you were there back in 1998/1999, neither SOTN or CV64 were really big games, people were too busy with stuff like MGS, OOT or FF7.
Neither SOTN was as celebrated as it is now, nor CV64 was as hated as it's now. Pretty sure both received their fair share of 7s and 8s in various magazine reviews.

>> No.6433474

>>6432863
If my choice for Resident Evil 2 was between PS1 or N64, I'd take the PS1 version. I'd prefer to have the FMVs not be at a slide show frame rate full of compression artifacts and the voices to not sound like they were recorded over a tin-can telephone.

And contrary to what DF Retro claims, there is a noticeable drop in sound quality for the music as well which you can hear in this Real Hardware video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfVshl9thxE

N64 is noticeably more muffled with hisses and pops.

>> No.6433479

>>6433474
That's fair, I just value the N64 version more for having unique features that not any other version has. Faster/minimal load times is also a plus.
I replayed RE2 N64 a few times in recent years, thanks to the randomizer and the new control scheme. For the PS1 I see no reason to go back to when I can play the same thing on better systems.

>> No.6433491

>>6433479
> Faster/minimal load times is also a plus.

If you're complaining about RE2's load times then you are grasping at straws to be honest. The game's loading is very well hidden and isn't really much of an issue. Modern games have worse load times.

>> No.6433497

>>6433491
Nah I'm not complaining, just saying that having faster load times is a plus, but it's not the only reason why I value N64 RE2 over PS1.
I don't have a problem with RE2 on PS1, it's just it doesn't offer anything unique to still care about it when there's better options.

>> No.6433503

>>6433491
RE2 takes longer to switch between camera angles on Playstation than N64, so there's that.

>> No.6433512

>>6433503
>Complaining about a less than half a second pause.

This is the definition of nitpicking.

>> No.6433515

>>6433512
Nobody is complaining anon, just pointing out advantages of the N64 version. Calm down.

>> No.6433520

>>6432378
It was the most powerful system at the time when it came out. Cartridge games were expensive as fuck to produce for publishers and to purchase as consumers. I remember quite a few games costing up to $100 compared to $50-60 or less on Playstation and Saturn. The biggest complaint against the N64 and Switch today is the fucking Nintendo tax.

>> No.6433539

>>6433515
The n64 can haz as mucho better version of gaemz have as it wants especially Capcom ones since this will be the only one

>> No.6433585

>>6433337
>new genre
Willyvanias?

>> No.6433590

>>6433585
Sometimes, very rarely, you're based auster.

>> No.6433610

>>6432316
>>6432327
The real trick to it being so new was that every mistake only made people more excited, especially the people working in the magazines who got to see everything.
(whoever wrote that OP article was being a punk, though)

Every mistake and every clunky control or messed up level design, got people thinking about how it actually could be done right.

Look at the Rugrats Playstation game for an example. Every stage is like an experiment in different controls and different graphic effects. and there are toys littered around the hub world for the same reason.

>> No.6433691

>>6432308
Babies have liked shiny new things since long before zoomers walk he earth

>> No.6433923

>>6433182
I wish I wasn't. I feel like shit more often than I like and this is what's waiting for all you faggots after passing 40. >words like "bong." You know where bong comes from so don't start that bullshit. It's funny, just like when call americans burgers. Think of it as a term of endearment.

>> No.6434031

>>6432378
>It was a selling point sure but 2D wasn't hated.

it was actively set on a shelf by a plurality of developers and pretty much every publication except the diehards at Gamefan mag. It definitely felt hated when 2-d games for home systems basically dried up. with the launch of PS1 and the snail pace of games for the Saturn.

>> No.6434060

>>6432327
>Well, around 1995 or 1996, people just took great 2D for granted, it wasn't nostalgic, because it was still present, and it wasn't impressive anymore, because it's what people have been playing for years and years.

I don't think it was that, but some perspective for younger people might be helpful. After the nexus of gaming technology shifted out of the arcades, it was in home PCs somewhere after 2006. Ever since, younger people would only know progress in somewhat linear progression of computing power. More polys, more & higher rez textures, more light fx, display rez, draw distance, framerates... most of that stuff just scaled up with computing power increases.

But home 2D consoles NEVER reached any kind of synergy with arcade 2D performance. The jump in cost to get that power in the home was just too great, as shown with the Neo Geo. An SNES couldn't faithfully reproduce an arcade game from 3 years older above 80% with very very few exceptions getting higher, but never hitting 100%. (SF2 and hyper fighting, or TMNT turtles in time came closest for example, mable Magic Sword or something as well.)

If anything, its that 2D gaming stagnated for a few years because the tech costs weren't coming down fast enough to scale up to the next level of 2D gaming. Meanwhile PCs and early 3D gaming in the west were developing tech in the other direction.

>>

>> No.6434061

>>6434060
>cont...

So here's an example of the disparity in 2D power. Take the Capcom CPS-1 for SF2, board launched in 1988. It had a 68000 CPU running at 10mhz, The Genesis had a 68000 too from the same family, but at something like 7mhz. The CPS-1 had 4000 onscreen colors, the SNES had 256. The CPS-1 handled 256 sprites a line, the SNES only 32. The CPS-1 had 192k Vram, Genesis and Snes had 64k.

Rom storage was still super expensive. Ram chips were still super expensive. So you had arcade systems that were still a generation and a half ahead of the newest 16-bit home consoles of the day. And the CPS-2 came out while the SNES was still in play, years before the n64 launch. So then, the newest home consoles were 2 generations behind in 2D power.

>> No.6434145

>>6432308
I just accept it now. The masses wanted 3D so it was going to come period. Would have been cool to see another 2D gen but screw it can't change what has already happened. Reminder that the fifth generation of consoles was a massive success mostly thanks to the Playstation's heavy emphasis on 3D and cinematics. Normies always wanted gaming to go in this direction. It was never about gameplay for them.

>> No.6434153

>>6432308
Free masons hate fun.

>> No.6434160

INNOVATION BAD

>> No.6434331

I think a lot of people that hated 2d the most were fps enthusiasts in waiting whether they realized it or not, and there were a lot of them judging by the success they had in the time since, among some other genres that only really work in 3d. There was also a sense that the scale of everything would only increase on top of improved fidelity, not many people at the time had a solid grasp of what the workload was going to look like when you actually have to fill a world with million poly models. 3d had a lot more of a lost in another world mystique to it, especially looking forward and not knowing exactly how things are going to look in the future. Now that it's here... eh.

>> No.6434337

>>6434331
The hype for 3-D was not deserved. It only got worse from 6th gen on. I'm glad I dropped out of the gaming scene near the end of 5th gen (which I never took seriously anyways).

>> No.6434408

>2D games: 360 degrees movement
>3D games 360*360 degrees movement
2D is gay and for little boys

>> No.6434480

>>6432308
>can't tell shills apart in magazines