/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6416939]

GOTTA GO SLOW M8
https://youtu.be/xXGAzruMkSg

[Anonymous No.6417049]

>>6416939
I like the music. The slower tempo is more atmospheric and classical.

[Anonymous No.6417158]

>>6417049
Imagine thinking like this palfaggot

[Anonymous No.6417168]

>>6417049
Look at this dude...

[Anonymous No.6417334]

Yeah. As a Bong it’s a cold, hard realisation that all those PAL games you held onto from childhood are now worthless, unplayable garbage. So you either mod your consoles or get NTSC/JP ones, buy EverDrives and leave all that slow shit behind. Or just emulate, if you prefer.

[Anonymous No.6417706]

[Anonymous No.6417815]

[Anonymous No.6418075]

>>6416939
Good god, so glad I didn't grow up in any of these shitty pal regions. For fucks sake that is awful.

[Anonymous No.6418287]

>>6417334
Lolwut? All early Mega Drive carts, including Sonic 1, were all built the same. They changed their region based upon what code they were given from the Mega Drive.

[Anonymous No.6418297]

>>6416939
It's like a bad emulator.

[Anonymous No.6418424]

How did you guys even stand it?

[Anonymous No.6418427]

>>6416939
Fuck I remember buying this on Wii's VC like what the fuck was Nintendo thinking back then? Why they didn't bother fixing the PAL versions?
I remember Super Mario Bros was slow as fuck as well

[Anonymous No.6418437]

>>6418424
Have you seen the average Amiga game? 50hz Sonic is still lightning fast compared to that.

[Anonymous No.6418892]

>>6418424
I didn't even realise it wasn't supposed to be like that until I saw this thread. How would you even have found out before YouTube?

[Anonymous No.6418894]

>>6417049

PAL Sky Sanctuary is very nostalgic for me (so slow and epic), too bad I can't find it in PAL tempo anywhere to listen.

[Anonymous No.6418947]

>>6416939
peak euro soul

[Anonymous No.6418950]

>>6418424
Didn't know any better. There was no Youtube back then.

[Anonymous No.6419594]

>>6418894
PAL Sky Sanctuary sounds the same as NTSC Sky Sanctuary my dude, only Sonic 1 had slower sound, 2 3 & K had slower gameplay but correct sound. You must be remembering wrong. Or had a weird copy or console or something.

[Anonymous No.6420654]

>>6418287
I wasn’t just talking about early MD games, I was just on about PAL shit in general. As yes, you’re right about that. Wasn’t it altered when the game cases got that blue bubble design change?

[Anonymous No.6420679]

>>6419594
>only Sonic 1 had slower sound, 2 3 & K had slower gameplay but correct sound
Are you sure about that? 1 was noticeably slower than the rest, I always just assumed it was early instalment weirdness

[Anonymous No.6420843]

>>6416939
I grew up with this shit so now the US/JP versions sound wrong to me, PAL region broke my brain.

[Anonymous No.6420849]

>>6416939

imagine getting really good at pal sonic. like, ridiculously good. all your friends are impressed with your sonic skill. then /that/ friend imports the japanese version and hands you the controller.

[Anonymous No.6421171]

>>6418287
Try loading a PAL rom onto an NTSC eprom and see what happens.

[Anonymous No.6421205]

>>6418424
As some anon here says, we didn't know any better. There was not any way to know it unless you travaled to a NTSC country and played the game there. I had the original PAL one in 1991 and enjoyed a lot. Never knew in my life that the game was slower that the NTSC versions until emulators came out in the late 90s.
To me, the game felt really fast even in PAL.

[Anonymous No.6421208]

>>6416939
>>6417334
man, i remember learning about this years years ago and its been mad long since ive actually watched footage but oh man, i actually cant even believe this really.

mainly the music. the gameplay doesn't look terribly horrible for the time (i guess?) but i think the music alone being so much slower combined with the residual effect of built up time lost due to the 50hz slowdown does make for a completely different game. it looks alot... calmer? like more of a slow paced platformer as opposed to something that competed even with smb on the nes. can someone explain to me why exactly the consoles had to run at 50hz? something to do with the electricity that was standardized in europe back then right? i still find this all very interesting.

pic unrel

[Anonymous No.6421291]

>>6420679
I find the actual gameplay speed a lot less noticeable than the music, so I do tend to feel that 2, 3 & k are faster. But they do run slower, and so do most PAL mega drive games, even when they have correct music.

[Anonymous No.6421306]

on the bright side, sonic 1's complete lack of optimisation made it run perfectly when you installed a 60hz switch in your mega drive

[Anonymous No.6421346]

Everything is slower in PAL land.

[Anonymous No.6421512]

>>6420654
The blue/red carts are when they started region locking the games in 1993. In 1992 they started partially optimising some PAL games which is why games like Alisia Dragoon and Rocket Knight Adventure have graphical glitches if you play them on a Genesis. I really wish there was a definitive list.

[Anonymous No.6421518]

>>6421512
i think rocket knight adventures forced to 60hz looks almost totally perfect, but alisia dragoon does have annoying flicker

[Anonymous No.6422727]

>>6421208
>can someone explain to me why exactly the consoles had to run at 50hz? something to do with the electricity that was standardized in europe back then right?
In the 1890s the biggest manufacturer of electrical goods in Europe was AEG and they picked 50hz for their products to operate at, their American affiliate General Electric also went with 50hz. By the 1920s most of Europe had adopted that frequency as the standard. However in America there was competition between GE and a company called Westinghouse Electric (which later became known as Viacom), they found that arc lamps (pic related) had a noticeable flicker at 50hz so adopted 60hz as their standard. Westinghouse products were more widely used than GE products so their frequency won out in America and was adopted as the standard for the country.

Japan is even stranger, they couldn't decide between the two and half the country uses 50hz and half uses 60hz and there are a series of massive power transformers running down the divide to change the frequency between the two grids (google 'Shin Shinano' for an example).

So basically, the reason electrical goods are region locked is an arbitrary choice made over 130 years ago and a product that barely has any uses in the modern day.

[Anonymous No.6424323]

>>6420679
He's full of shit. Every Sonic after 1 played at the correct speed on PAL. Sonic 2's music played slow, but the gameplay was correct.

[Anonymous No.6424738]

>>6424323
Sonic 2 definitely runs slower and has correct music. You can set an emulator to PAL and run Sonic 2, or find any video on YouTube of somebody playing Sonic 2 on a PAL console, or play it on a PAL console yourself to verify that. Why would the music be slow and the gameplay correct? That doesn't make sense considering music is far more noticeable than gameplay speed. Speeding up the music so it sounds correct on PAL is a satisfactory job in most cases and less likely to cause bugs than speeding up the game logic.

Older games have slow music and slow gameplay.

The majority of PAL mega drive games I've played have correct music and slow gameplay.

I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I assume there are some PAL games that have correct music and correct gameplay (not counting games that were developed for PAL in the first place).

I'm 99% certain there isn't a single game with slow music and correct gameplay. If devs were going to go out of their way to fix the gameplay, they'd fix the music too.

[Anonymous No.6424761]

>>6422727
This Anon knows stuff

[Anonymous No.6425785]

>>6416939
Slow Labyrinth Zone is the shit
>>6422727
Why exactly didn't they optimise games for PAL outright? Was it really just sheer ignorance?

[Anonymous No.6425809]

It's just Mario

[Anonymous No.6427659]

>>6424738
Yeah nah. I am not going to look at Youtube or run an emulator. I've grown up with PAL Mega Drives and Sonic 2. I now have a 60hz modded MD and a NTSC Sonic 2 rom to play on it. I can play the PAL and NTSC games on their respective consoles CRTs in the same room if I want. I am telling you with 100% certainty that the music is slower on the PAL version and the gameplay is sped up to compensate for 50hz. The why of it is unimportant to me, only that it is so.

[Anonymous No.6427743]

>>6425785
It improved over time. PAL Sonic 2 didn't run so slowly and PAL Sonic 3 ran at the correct speed.

Funnily enough it has happened in the reverse, the American Sega port of Shadow of the Beast runs way faster than it should have. The Japanese version came out later and was fixed up.

[Anonymous No.6428023]

>>6427659
You are 100% full of shit.

[Anonymous No.6428406]

>>6425785
>Why didn't they optimise
Because it took time and money for what was often, though not always, a smaller market for the platforms. Plus the theory was that in the pre-internet days as long as everybody's copy was the same in the given region, nobody would know or notice. Which was true for the most part. There's also the general technical difficulties about taking systems and software all geared around 240 lines 60 times a second and making them work seamlessly at 288 lines, 50 times. All sorts of weird shit changed, due to the more analog nature of hardware at the time. Stuff like being able to derive the frequency of the colour burst for free from clock speeds instead of needing an additional oscillator really bit them in the ass. While it'd take longer for the software side of things to get fixed, due to based retards still not divorcing game logic from the render thread, the hardware issue was at least fixed by the dawn of the 3D era. So a PAL PS1 or Saturn being fed an NTSC rom from a burnt CD will just werk for the most part.

[Anonymous No.6428419]

>>6418427
>I remember Super Mario Bros was slow as fuck as well

Actually, the PAL version of SMB1 is 10% faster than the Jap and US versions.

And is about 100% more fun because of it.

[Anonymous No.6428425]

>>6416939
>GOTTA GO ON A 100% RUN

[Anonymous No.6428440]

Playing at 25 frames when I could be getting 30 shits me way more than getting 30 frames when I should be getting 60.

[Anonymous No.6428451]

>>6418424
Bongs mostly played bootleg amiga/zx spectrum games that ran like shit so they couldn't tell anything was wrong with their consoles

[Anonymous No.6430774]

>>6428023
No u. You're the one making assumptions, 'it WOULD be slower, logically!', get fucked. I have the bloody games and the hardware and I have seen the changes with my own eyes and heard them with my ears more than once.

[Anonymous No.6430839]

>>6427659
As far as I can tell sonic2 does not have different versions for each region, the rom is the same. The game detects PAL or NTSC hardware and adjusts the playback speed as required. The game play speed is never adjusted.

It is not even possible to speed up the gameplay, you would have to adjust all the speed and physics constants which for many do not have sufficient precision to accommodate the change in speed. It would really fuck up the feel of the game.

[Anonymous No.6430840]

>>6427659
As far as I can tell sonic2 does not have different versions for each region, the rom is the same. The game detects PAL or NTSC hardware and adjusts the music speed as required. The game play speed is never adjusted.

It is not even possible to speed up the gameplay, you would have to adjust all the speed and physics constants which for many do not have sufficient precision to accommodate the change in speed. It would really fuck up the feel of the game.

[Anonymous No.6430869]

>>6416939
I didn't know Sonic 1 was on the Playstation Classic!

[Anonymous No.6430870]

The actual gameplay isn't even that bad but 5/6 speed pal music pisses me the fuck off

[Anonymous No.6430913]

I recall magazines making note of how the Game Gear version of Sonic ran faster (7% or 15%, or somesuch) than the Master System version.
When I later learned of the 50hz thing I realized it must have been because the Game Gear did not need to rely on the regional power standard and thus ran at full speed.

[Anonymous No.6430918]

There are occasions when the 50hz music is actually better, I reel. Here are some:

>Master System Sonic - Scrap Brain Zone
>Splatterhouse 2 - basically the whole thing. It gets a more sombre tone.
>Chakan the Forever Man - Stage Select theme

[Anonymous No.6430923]

>>6430913
The GG is still the original version of the game, and the best one, despite the smaller screen ratio. GG displays more colors and better sound than SMS.
Also, GG Sonic has "SEGA" splash screen (the the "seeegaaa" voice sample and all), but not the SMS.

[Anonymous No.6430926]

>>6430918
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9lI9_pth8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLhCABnzAD4

[Anonymous No.6430941]

[Anonymous No.6430942]

[Anonymous No.6430994]

[Anonymous No.6430996]

[Anonymous No.6431089]

>>6416939
Reminds me of Americlaps that say FFIX is too slow. I played that shit on PAL and never got Excalibur II until I got the PS4 version. I guess the small upside is I actually did that 1000 jump skipping shit.

[Anonymous No.6431212]

>>6417049
imagine unironically being a palcuck

[Anonymous No.6431254]

>>6430918
>Splatterhouse 2 - basically the whole thing. It gets a more sombre tone.
Completely agree with this. Having played the PAL version back in the day, It's the only PAL game that I find almost impossible to adapt to the faster music. The slower music just suits the game better for some reason.

[Anonymous No.6431278]

At least with PAL games, for those mental people who insist on p!saying in 16:9 it doesn't matter that much as the screen is stretched anyway.

[Anonymous No.6431558]

>>6428406
Fair enough, over here it was more about the C64 and Amiga anyway.

[Anonymous No.6431854]

>>6417049
that squashes 525i resolution must have squashed your mind as well.

[Anonymous No.6431864]

>>6416939
>when they pick up the speed boost shoes powerup which makes the music and game speed up, it actually makes the music normal NTSC speed

[Anonymous No.6433136]

>>6418424
I had the PC version of Sonic&Knuckles

[Anonymous No.6433170]

>>6421171
The roms are region free for a lot of genesis games. If you burn truxton to a cart and put it in a genesis you get truxton put it in a mega drive you get tatsujin. If you put your original tatsujin cart into a genesis it loads up as truxton. That's what anon is saying there are no "PAL" roms for a lot of early genesis games.

[Anonymous No.6433232]

>>6433170
Absolutely true, I remember when I was big into emulation and the roms labelled UJ or JUE would actually do this if I changed the region

[Anonymous No.6433483]

>>6433170
Truxton is supposed run better on a PAL machine apparently.

Even so e region free games, the timings aren't always correct.

[Anonymous No.6433510]

When you're a kid, you don't care about frame rate. You got a video game you just played it.
Perfect Dark can dip into the single digit FPS. When I was a kid I didn't care, I was just happy to play a shooting game.

[Anonymous No.6433671]

My entire Saturn, Mega CD, PS1, PS2 and Xbox collection is PAL. I'm fucked.

[Anonymous No.6433686]

Geez, this looks almost as slow as Sonic 3!

[Anonymous No.6434537]

>>6433510
>I had no standard as a kid

>thus all kids are the same

[Anonymous No.6434542]

>>6433671


PS2 and XBOX should be mostly unaffected. Only early PS2 games are an issue; but since during the same timeframe Sega forced all Dreamcast games to have a 60hz option, 50hz only PS2 games like Onimusha or Final Fantasy X were being shat on so the option eventually become a norm on all platforms.

Quite a few Saturn and PS1 games should be optimized as well, not to mention games were in PAL territory

[Anonymous No.6434559]

>>6416939
Vaporwave sonic romhack when?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lplnw87TDsk

[Anonymous No.6434774]

>>6433671
Saturn games are fine. They're either optimised or can be forced into 60hz anyway. Mega CD games are junk though.

[Anonymous No.6434849]

>>6416939
Europeans would get too triggered and angry if they saw something as fast and aggressive as Sonic and they'd probably start a new world war

[Anonymous No.6435457]

>>6434849
sick burn :)

[Anonymous No.6437231]

>>6422727
dude thanks so much to replying to my post! this was awesome to read about! so much history i had no idea. dude ur the man. i mean that thanks for this =]