SHMUPS

[Anonymous No.6414019]

I want to try some classic shmups, preferably vertical scrolling and with levels (not just scoring autism). Where should I start?

[Anonymous No.6414053]

Mushihimesama

[Anonymous No.6414057]

>>6414053
Not retro.

[Anonymous No.6414065]

Aero Fighters/Sonic Wings series

[Anonymous No.6414073]

>>6414019
Raiden 1, arcade. Thats when SHOOTERS began to get good. Its also lower speed and easy to manage.

[Anonymous No.6414082]

>>6414057
Galaga, then. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.6414160]

something by psikyo, depends if you want a single game to play for months (gunbird 2 and dragon blaze), or something you just want to breeze through to get a feel for the genre (strikers 1945, samurai aces, gunbird 1). they're being released on steam weekly at the moment, so check them out there for the easiest way to get into them as a new player. they have plenty of difficulties to choose from as well as online leaderboards, and only cost $10 each.

[Anonymous No.6414336]

>>6414160
>breezing through Stikers 1945
oh shit I'm even worse than I thought

[Anonymous No.6414413]

>>6414336
I didn't find strikers to be particularly difficult, although I did play it after already beating a few other psikyo shmups so I was used to the gameplay. I think the traditional style psikyo shooters without close range burst/melee attacks are much more manageable since you don't need to play as aggressively or risk being point blank instakilled. dragon blaze is my favorite but there's a lot for a new player to learn so it can feel a bit overwhelming.

[Anonymous No.6414450]

Can't go wrong with Compile's Aleste series:
Aleste
Aleste 2
Super Aleste (Space Megaforce)
Musha Aleste (Musha)
Robo Aleste

Compile were gods of vertical shmups.

[Anonymous No.6414517]

Override pc engine

[Anonymous No.6414545]

>>6414160
I'm highly biased towards Strikers 1945 myself.

[Anonymous No.6414546]

>>6414019
T Y R I AN
Y
R
I
A
N 2 0 0 0

[Anonymous No.6414560]

>>6414545
strikers 1945 has a cool ending sequence. the men in black/alien bosses were pretty funny

[Anonymous No.6414646]

>>6414450
don't forgive pic related

[Anonymous No.6414649]

>>6414646
>forgive
forget, fucking phone

[Anonymous No.6414769]

RayForce is the only classic vert you'll need

[Anonymous No.6414817]

Why not play Batsugun?
Survival is fun and simple

[Anonymous No.6415482]

>>6414649
I've never even met your phone, why do you want me to forget it.
>>6414817
Batsugun is a good entry game

[Anonymous No.6415503]

How come hardcore SHMUP fans hate SHMUPS that use health bars? I see it all the time online, if a game uses anything but a one hit kill life system it's thrown into the trash.

[Anonymous No.6415505]

>>6415503
because it's almost always a shitty crutch by devs who can't into level design

[Anonymous No.6415513]

>>6415503
Because most games that use health bars are poorly designed pieces of garbage made by developers who don't know how shmups are made or played. Nobody's going to complain about heath bars in Guwange or Deathsmiles because they're well designed.

[Anonymous No.6415517]

>>6415503
If a shmup has a decent power-up system, it shouldn't need health bars.

[Anonymous No.6415520]

>>6415503
It's usually a sign that a game is poorly balanced.

[Anonymous No.6415742]

>>6414817
Just played it. I like the weapon level up system

[Anonymous No.6415878]

>shmup
>with health bars

[Anonymous No.6415902]

>>6415513
So like UN Squadron?

[Anonymous No.6415918]

Dragon Spirit is one of my favorite vintage STGs, the PCE version in particular although the NES version is fine too. Arcade version actually feels more dated than the console releases so I don't enjoy it as much

It has a health system, it has ground targets, and you have to avoid powerups that might make your loadout functionally "worse." But if you're not autistic and these things don't bother you then you're in for a fun time. It's also got a sequel which I haven't gotten around to playing yet but I've heard good things.

[Anonymous No.6415924]

>>6414057
you could have suggested something, then. but instead you decided to be a dick.

kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.6415932]

If you want to go even more vintage, Galaga 88 is fucking fun and really addictive because it captures that feeling that the game is fair and you're the one making stupid mistakes so you have intrinsic motivation to keep retrying.

Anyone who says otherwise hasn't honestly played it.

[Anonymous No.6415946]

>>6415918
have you tried the better sequel called Dragon Saber?

>>6415932
sick cover, why did games in the 80s / early 90s have such cool covers?

[Anonymous No.6415989]

So I'll get a shmup, die over and over on stage 3, eventually go a day without playing it, then forget it exists and repeat the cycle months to years later. How do I break the cycle?

[Anonymous No.6415994]

>>6415989
Play more often I guess. Although sometimes I mysteriously get better if I stop playing a game for a few weeks.

>>6415932
I like that and the not-retro Space Invaders games.

[Anonymous No.6415995]

>>6415989
Just lie on the internet that you "1¢ all seven hoops" or some shit, like we all do.

[Anonymous No.6416018]

>>6415946
>have you tried the better sequel called Dragon Saber?

The last sentence of my post will answer that for you.

[Anonymous No.6416192]

Blazy Lazy hahaha

[Anonymous No.6416213]

>>6415989
Simply stop being an impatient fag who's too easily discouraged by failure it's that easy. Or try a different playstyle like focusing on one stage at a time in practice mode/with savestates until you can confidently clear it, then move on to the next stage.

[Anonymous No.6416287]

>>6416213
I don't consciously give up, I just forget to play and then have no reason to come back. Never seen a practice mode and savestates are cheats.

[Anonymous No.6416308]

>>6416287
Non-cheaters never prosper, anon

[Anonymous No.6416320]

>>6416287
Ooooh I see the problem now, you're retarded

[Anonymous No.6416405]

>>6415918
The PCE/TG16 chiptunes are great. Better than the arcade. Link related, Area1 @ 1:06

https://youtu.be/KOb3guEiRew

[Anonymous No.6416806]

>>6414019
PSX:
Zanac X Zanac
Xevoius 3D/G

Gamecube:
Star Soldier (3d remake of nes game)

PC:
Demon Star
OpenTyrian

[Anonymous No.6416813]

>>6416806
DOS:
Overkill
Raptor

[Anonymous No.6417921]

I grew up with the SNES but I didnt really play anything outside the main games. Mario/Dong/Zelda/etc. Any good shmups on that system?

[Anonymous No.6417946]

>>6417921
Space Megaforce/Super Aleste is the best one on the SNES, hands-down.

U.N. Squadron / Area 88
Aero Fighters
Raiden Trad
Axelay
R-Type III
I still enjoy Gradius III despite the complaints about slowdown.

On Super Famicom, I'd recommend
Macross Scrambled Valkyrie
Spriggan Powered
Pop'n Twinbee
Parodius da!
Marchen Adventure Cotton 100%

[Anonymous No.6417964]

>>6416287
practice mode is the game itself, your death marks the end of "practice mode"

[Anonymous No.6418137]

What's a good tension spring for your stick with shmups? 4lb or 2?
Should I get an oversized actuator for my jlf?

[Anonymous No.6418157]

Does anyone else suck at horizontal shooters on average? Trying to dodge bullets + enemies while in such cramped corridors with collision always gets me.

>>6415932
I still think all of original Space Invaders, Galaxian, and Galaga are fun, though there is a period of adjustment for each.

[Anonymous No.6418226]

>>6418157
I've noticed I do way better at horizontal shooters on a smaller monitor. I was playing Gradius II on a small 9" Sony Trinitron and was breezing through the game because I could take in the entire screen and my focus wasn't drawn to any one thing like it would be on a larger display.

[Anonymous No.6418278]

is level 3 the filter level for these types of games? I can 1cc up until level 3 and then everything goes to hell, I lose all three lives within like 2 minutes

[Anonymous No.6418292]

>>6418278
for me it's 4

4 IS death, after all

[Anonymous No.6418310]

>>6418278
The first 2 levels are made easy so that even if you're shit you'll get a guaranteed minimum of fun per coin, level 3 is often when the games become serious.

[Anonymous No.6418337]

>>6417946
Dont forget about Darius Twin and Darius Force (Super Nova).

For super famicom i also recommend King of Demons (english name).

Nice list.

[Anonymous No.6418354]

>ctrl+f "radiant"
radiant silvergun you casuals

[Anonymous No.6418389]

>>6414073
>Raiden 1, arcade.
I remember playing this in the arcade. God it was so good. The sound effects made the game, I think. Plus the fact you eventually reached weapon upgrade levels that just killed everything on screen instantly. But the sound effects...good stuff.

[Anonymous No.6418392]

>>6414649
Kek, I was gonna ask if it was that bad that they had to be forgiven for making it.

[Anonymous No.6418394]

>>6414545
F-f-female QT Zero pilot! I-I cannot handle this!

[Anonymous No.6418428]

>>6418337
Majyūō/King of Demons isn't a shmup, its an action platformer with an emphasis on boss battles like Alien Soldier.

[Anonymous No.6418431]

Why not have a session of Sengoku Blade?

[Anonymous No.6418446]

>>6418431
cause to heck with suicide bullets

[Anonymous No.6418537]

>>6418446
I was about to buy this on Switch. It has suicide bullets?

[Anonymous No.6418550]

>>6418537
Only second loop

[Anonymous No.6418615]

>>6417946
I'll check these out. "Super Megaforce" damn top tier bad western title.

[Anonymous No.6418682]

>>6415924
Get the fuck out, zoomy.

[Anonymous No.6418694]

>>6418389
>>6414073
Raiden 1 is great. Starts off a bit slow but really picks up in the later stages and second loop.

If you like the first game you should try Raiden 2 or DX, similar mechanics but improved graphics, explosions and sound. And no graphical glitches. But I think the items are more randomized, which can be annoying...

[Anonymous No.6418727]

>>6418537
The switch ports are laggy. You may not enjoy them. The people what test these things say you're talking 4 frames of lag minimum on a Switch, and these ports go to 7. More if you use USB, add TV lag if you are using a TV... etc.

[Anonymous No.6418814]

>>6415503
Some games use a health system that is functionally identical to lives. You get hit, you lose a set chunk of health. You die, you're out of a credit. Extra lives are replaced with healing kits that restore one chunk. It's basically the same thing, except you don't temporarily despawn on death.

[Anonymous No.6418821]

>>6418157
your focus with most yoko shmups shouldn't be to dodge bullets. they're about knowing in advance where the safezones are and when to move to different parts of the screen. a lot of the time you can use wall collision to your advantage and hug certain spots to block enemy fire.

[Anonymous No.6418826]

>>6418537
it's coming out on steam soon, buy it there instead. gunbird came out today and it's on sale, get that in the meantime. I first played tengai on switch and thought I sucked, but there's a pretty noticeable input delay. as soon as I moved to playing on mame I could breeze through patterns that previously felt like random chance. steam ports don't have the same issue and they come with online leaderboards.

[Anonymous No.6420050]

Why do shmup threads always die?

[Anonymous No.6420171]

>>6420050
Shmups are boring.

Go play JRPG's.

[Anonymous No.6420194]

>>6420050
Shmups are trash

[Anonymous No.6420196]

>>6420050
I love Shmups, I just was playing some Blazing Star, but they are a difficult genre to discuss because so much about them is based on the nuances of how they play, but that's also their strength as well, it's a very "pure" genre of video games.

[Anonymous No.6420215]

>>6420050
because low testosterone

[Anonymous No.6420220]

>>6418278
when you say level 3, do you mean stage 3 or the third difficulty level in arcade games?

[Anonymous No.6420232]

Anything similar to ketsui: death label?

[Anonymous No.6420303]

Is Life Force really one of the easiest shmups? I'm always out of lives by the end of the fire stage.

Hate to say it but anything easier?

[Anonymous No.6420319]

>>6420215
then why so many tranny players in the shumps community?

[Anonymous No.6420347]

>>6418431
Sell me on Psikyo. Why should I play their shmups instead of Cave?

[Anonymous No.6420351]

>>6420319
Currently one in the west, one in japan. Not that many thankfully.

[Anonymous No.6420373]

>>6420347
You just posted two very big reasons, anon.

[Anonymous No.6420379]

>>6420347
psikyo is the perfect balance between memorisation and reaction. their games feel way more fast and tense to play than cave IMO, and I find them more fun to play for both survival and score. Dragon blaze is better than any cave shooter.

[Anonymous No.6420409]

>>6414019
>shmups
You mean SHOOTERS you fecking feggit.

[Anonymous No.6420516]

>>6420303
the fire stage is the easiest ever, even in the arcade version

just hang back

[Anonymous No.6420554]

>>6418727
The Switch ports broke my heart

[Anonymous No.6420568]

>>6420319
I wouldnt be surprised if trannies are higher test than most of you fags

[Anonymous No.6420572]

>>6420379
Psikyo is shit. All their shmups with the exception of Zero Gunner 2 are shitty, imbalanced pieces of crap.

>>6414019
>Dodonpachi
>Battle Garegga
>Layer Section (aka Galactic Attack)
>Mushihimesama Futari

[Anonymous No.6420578]

>>6420303
Its not but you shouldnt be dying in the fire stage either, the blueball boss is the main source of challenge in that game. Thunder Force 3 and Batsugun Special are both easier, Gradius 1 and Rebirth are easier too.

[Anonymous No.6420584]

>>6420572
How are they imbalanced or shitty? Explain

[Anonymous No.6420598]

>>6420584
>hit boxes are too big
>enemy spawning is haphazard and has poor flow
>power up marooning
>half their games are the same game with reskins

They're shit.

[Anonymous No.6420609]

>>6420598
Too big for what? You can consistently dodge everything the games throw at you and the games rarely require pure hitbox dodging like Cave games, you can generally rely on visuals. Enemy spawns have fantastic flow the fuck are you talking about, examples? Gotta be honest, you just sound retarded.

[Anonymous No.6420632]

>>6420598
Power ups stay onscreen for a while for a specific reason, anon. Did you actually play them or just credit feed once before dropping? In most psikyo games your fourth shot level is only temporary, so you keep a power up on screen and grab it once your shot level drops. You're not supposed to immediately chase it to the top of the screen.

[Anonymous No.6420636]

>>6420609
>doesn't understand hit boxes can be programmed to be different sizes
>thinks opinion on flow of enemies is fact
>calls other people retarded

I'm not replaying a bunch of shit, bottom tier shooters to prove my point to some autist keyboard warrior. Play Candy Cope on your smartphone pleb, it's more at your level.

[Anonymous No.6420652]

>>6420636
Ah so it's not that you sound retarded, it's that you ARE retarded and can't substantiate anything you say. Yes hitboxes can be programmed to be different sizes, and Psikyo consistently choose bigger hitboxes to emphasize strict routing and memorization, should they make them smaller to please some Caveshitter who can't adapt? Not to mention games like Garegga and Rayforce have bigger hitboxes than any Psikyos. And I don't think it's my opinion is fact I just think you're a clueless dipshit who got filtered, which is why I asked for examples or at least some actual substance other than "flow BAD"

[Anonymous No.6420669]

>>6420632
Yup, and in their later games with perma power ups, the movement of items is very straightforward and a non-issue.

[Anonymous No.6420723]

Why play Psikyo when you could play Raiden IV, which does everything Psikyo did but far better?

[Anonymous No.6420731]

>>6420723
the raiden series plays like a worse toaplan shmup, it's not really anything like psikyo

[Anonymous No.6420736]

>>6420723
>bullet wobble
>shit bullet visibility
>snoozefest loop 1
>stages are mostly tap dodging

[Anonymous No.6420740]

>>6420723
no anime waifus, therefore it's shit

[Anonymous No.6420839]

>>6420598
>>hit boxes are too big
Do you want no hit box at all?

>>enemy spawning is haphazard and has poor flow
they have very precise level design and enemy placement, it has to be specially for the second loops, nothing is haphazard.

>>half their games are the same game with reskins
even sequels like Gunbird 2 feel like good progress and change compared to Gunbird 1. And if you compare Sengoku Blade to Dragon Blaze you'll see big differences in play style.

[Anonymous No.6420856]

>>6420839
This. I'm part of the minority that prefers Gunbird 1, and 2 feels completely different. I always have more fun with earlier Psikyo shooters with more traditional gameplay and temporary level 4 shots instead of the hyper aggressive point blank melee play of Dragon Blaze. If there's too much of a focus on charge attacks and attacks other than shooting it stops feeling like a shmup to me.

[Anonymous No.6420926]

>>6420740

golden rule of the modern age

[Anonymous No.6420972]

what's your favorite stage in any shmup, ever?

[Anonymous No.6421000]

>>6420972
first stage of darius ii for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBtv_zq7Qss

[Anonymous No.6421006]

>>6421000
lol wut

>>6420347
Better question is why should I play Cave instead of Psikyo and classic dadshits?

[Anonymous No.6421067]

>>6421006
>Better question is why should I play Cave instead of Psikyo and classic dadshits?

More depth to their scoring systems, more variety in game styles and themes, more innovative gameplay mechanics, inventive bullet patterns, more dynamic gameplay, better sound, better visuals, better explosions.

[Anonymous No.6421210]

>>6421067
>More depth to their scoring systems
Doesn't matter when the scoring is usually junk like enemy chaining.
>more variety in game styles and themes
Not really, nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to shmups.
>more innovative gameplay mechanics
That's bs.
>inventive bullet patterns
If weaving through slow and garish patterns is your thing, sure.
>more dynamic gameplay,
Still spewing bs, huh.
>better sound,
Cave sound quality is terrible, though.
>better visuals
Maybe before they started using pre-rendered garbage...
>better explosions.
Getting pretty desperate to pad out your Cave propaganda now.

I'll admit, your love for the taste of Ikeda's penis is impressive.

[Anonymous No.6421245]

>>6421210
There is nothing wrong with enemy chaining and you certainly haven't provided an argument. It lets games link different encounters together into a coherent whole. But also let's step outside of your delusional bubble and look at the actual scoring systems of some of their games :

DDP series - enemy chaining, eventually mixed with hyper management
ESP.Ra.De - combo of timed kills, small chains and cancels
Dangun Feveron - item collecting and Caravan Shooter style quick killing
Guwange - Bullet cancelling and stalling, real time control of 2 game objects, shot type switching depending on enemy type, other techniques like spirit flux for coin generation
Progear - Bullet cancels and management of different item types
Ketsui - Similar to progear but based around point blanking for chips, with some chaining mixed in and empty locking
Espgaluda - Point blanking/quick killing for gems leading to slow-mo cancel chaining
Mushihimesama - A mix of point blanking and switching between autofire frequencies for counter building
Futari - Constant shot type switching based on the color of the counter and point blanking

Also, "nothing out of the ordinary"? Can you name a single classic vertical shmup like Guwange?

[Anonymous No.6421253]

>>6421210
Also most of your post is leftist-esque smug dismissal with no counter-arguments or examples provided. Extremely weak.

[Anonymous No.6421328]

>>6421245
and after all of that is said, if you're going for a high score, it all just boils down to executing a very specific predetermined route, whether you're playing Ketsui, Espgaluda 2 or DDP....at high levels of play it doesn't matter whether you're phase changing in Galuda2 or alternating shot-types in DDP, it's all just routing, dodging and shooting, and the small details get lost in translation.

[Anonymous No.6421341]

>not a single mention of the world's greatest shmup
F I L T E R E D

[Anonymous No.6421354]

>>6421341
>world's greatest shmup
you mean Gunbird 2?

[Anonymous No.6421371]

>>6421328
>Yeahhh brooo it's just pushing buttons at the right times lmao all games are the same when u think about it

I know you kinda got backed into a corner after saying something retarded, but how far up your ass did you have to reach to pull out this """argument"""? Not only can this reductive crap be applied to anything, but it's just plain false since not only do different scoring systems make for different kinds of gameplay, but players have clear preferences, sometimes even dislike a game because of its scoring.

[Anonymous No.6421373]

>>6421354
my coombrain is making me ask: is this one of those erotic japanese games or is that sprite just one-off happenstance

[Anonymous No.6421394]

>>6421373
The latter, pretty sure the nipples are edited in too

[Anonymous No.6421408]

>>6421394
literally nothing makes my dick harder than video game sprites. i have no fucking clue why. maybe the precision in pixel art animation lends itself really well to good jiggle physics

[Anonymous No.6421414]

>>6421394
>>6421373
it's the uncensored dreamcast version

[Anonymous No.6421452]

>>6421371
> but it's just plain false since not only do different scoring systems make for different kinds of gameplay
>Not only can this reductive crap be applied to anything, but it's just plain false since not only do different scoring systems
Those scoring mechanics are illusions of variety, just like Cave bullet-patterns create the illusion of extra difficulty. When you cut through the fat they all end up feeling very samey. There are exceptions like Dangun because of the speed, Guwange because of the movement, but even those things normalize after hundreds of hours of play and it all reduces to performing your route.

>but players have clear preferences, sometimes even dislike a game because of its scoring.
and some players have preferences against Cave style games, so your previous posts are pointless

[Anonymous No.6421495]

>>6421452
Really, you're doubling down on this retarded shit?

>Those scoring mechanics are illusions of variety

No, they are *are* variety. They create different playstyles, different kinds of routing, different kinds of dodging, different learning curves, different levels of risk, reward, punishment, frustration, enjoyment. Every element of gameplay is changed by how scoring works. Dangun and Guwange aren't exceptions, they are the norm. Dangun's speed affects gameplay, just as how Mushihimesama Futari's gem color changes affect gameplay, just as how Ketsui's empty locking or chip balancing affects gameplay. And the bullet patterns don't create an illusion of difficulty they ADD difficulty. What creates the illusion of difficulty is the mismatched sprites and hitboxes. Even after hundreds upon hundreds of hours, some games will be more execution heavy than others, some games will be more frustrating/punishing affecting restarts, some will become boring, some will stay exciting, some will require fun kinetic motions, others will feel stiff and unenjoyable, some will be random and unpredictable, some will be static and robot-like. Lastly, even if I concede to your retarded reductive logic, it will apply to all games and we'd be back to square one where all of the points I made apply. Think about it, if eventually all shmups are the same and what CAVE offers is illusions, you'd still want to play CAVE because until you reach that hypothetical point of sameyness they would be more exciting due to said illusion. You are very unintelligent, anon, I sure hope not all "dadshit" players are like you.

>and some players have preferences against Cave style games, so your previous posts are pointless

Meaningless response. Someone asked why anybody would want to play CAVE games - reasons were given. Your tastes are irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.6421513]

>>6421495
>hey create different playstyles, different kinds of routing, different kinds of dodging, different learning curves, different levels of risk, reward, punishment, frustration, enjoyment.
That's true for all different shmups, just having different enemy spawns and patterns creates different routing, different dodging, risks and rewards. Punishment can come from power-up losses, check points, few extends and all sorts of things. Different games are different....what's your point?

>Meaningless response. Someone asked why anybody would want to play CAVE games - reasons were given. Your tastes are irrelevant.
Only reason someone would play Cave is because they like the style Cave offers, which is a matter of preference, like picking vanillla over chocolate. The fact that you made those big long arguments about why Vanilla is so good or better than Chocolate is hilarious.

[Anonymous No.6421531]

>>6421513
>That's true for all different shmups, just having different enemy spawns and patterns creates different routing, different dodging, risks and rewards

CAVE games also have all of that and additional layers coming from complex scoring layers, along with some very unique mechanics you will not get in any traditional shmup. What is your point? Do you even have one or are you desperately trying to locate an argument that would make what you said any less retarded?

>Only reason someone would play Cave is because they like the style Cave offers

Yes, a style of shmup with a lot of additional complexity and depth coming from the inventive scoring systems, varied mechanics and interesting layered bullet patterns. You hiding behind relativistic "it's all subjective bro who cares" is just pathetic. If you don't like or don't care about everything mentioned then fine have your tastes, but what you are trying to do is deny that those elements exist through absurd mental gymnastics where you reduce vastly different mechanics into a simplified "it's all just button presses in the end bro".

[Anonymous No.6421559]

>>6421531
>What is your point? Do you even have one or are you desperately trying to locate an argument that would make what you said any less retarded?
I already stated it. There are differences between Cave shmups, like there are differences between classic shmups, whether someone enjoys those differences is another matter.


>Yes, a style of shmup with a lot of additional complexity and depth coming from the inventive scoring systems, varied mechanics and interesting layered bullet patterns.
My reductionist point was that at high-level play, all decent shmups converge in terms of scoring depth and difficulty. Getting a world-class score in Sengoku Blade or Rayforce will be as hard as anything from Cave.

> but what you are trying to do is deny that those elements exist through absurd mental gymnastics
I never denied those differences exist on some level, but the question was why should they appeal to someone over classic style shmups? as >>6421006 asked...
It's probably a rhetorical question, since it's just a matter of taste.

>You hiding behind relativistic "it's all subjective bro who cares" is just pathetic
It's appropriately relativist in this case. Not everything has an objective standard.
You listed a bunch of differences, okay, but then you acted as if they somehow made Cave games better, not okay. Just like bullet-cancels in Futari Ultra don't make it better than cyborg collecting in Dangun Feveron, it's just a difference.

[Anonymous No.6421589]

>>6421559
>My reductionist point was that at high-level play
>Getting a world-class score in Sengoku Blade or Rayforce will be as hard as anything from Cave.

Proof? Show your scores in either, or direct evidence for this. Then explain why Jaimers quickly got the Batsugun Special and Out Zone counterstops while struggling with DDP for years only to get a decent score if it's "all the same bro"? No. Games have different levels of scoring depth and difficulty no matter your level, which are dictated by their design and mechanics, some games are simply not as deep or difficult as others. I thought this is obvious, but guess people like you exist.

>but the question was why should they appeal to someone over classic style shmups?

That's up to them to decide, I listed their appealing features, you (or whoever else I was talking to) didn't simply say that none of those features matter, but denied that they exist. Now you're forced to backtrack, either out of your own arguments or because he dug a hole for you.

[Anonymous No.6421649]

>>6421589
>Then explain why Jaimers quickly got the Batsugun Special and Out Zone counterstops
because those games are easier to survive, and they have a hard limit, the counterstop? Their ceiling is capped low because of that, so they aren't good examples to use.
Jaimers played Rayforce for score for years and managed to get 8million, which is very respectable, but way below the world-record of 9.5 million. Likewise Ben shinobi, another great player, has been playing rayforce for years and managed to get 8.3 million, still nowhere near the WR.
Same applies for the Psikyo games, the best western players are really far off world-class scores, even guys like Zil and BOS fall way behind, because pushing classic games and psikyo games for score is just as challenging as caveshit.

>That's up to them to decide, I listed their appealing features, you (or whoever else I was talking to) didn't simply say that none of those features matter
Obviously different games have differences, apples and oranges. But you implied or even stated that they make Cave games better, as if it was objective truth lol. It's not.

[Anonymous No.6421679]

post your setups

[Anonymous No.6421686]

>>6421679
nice

[Anonymous No.6421689]

>>6421649
Alright, so it seems that you dragged me down to your levels of idiocy and muddied the entire conversation. Let's go through the points.

I said that Cave games have more complex, varied and deeper scoring systems. At first you said it's just enemy chaining and that it's shit, first is false, the second you didn't even bother justifying, because you can't. Then as a deflection you said it doesn't matter because "in the end it's all the same bro", which again is false.

You're now attempting to substantiate that idiotic statement by saying what, that the hypothetical skill ceiling is the same? First off this isn't true, and you know this isn't true which is why you have to exclude games from your list for arbitrary reasons like counter-stops (though there's more, like just the simple mechanics of something like Hyper Duel). What's the point of this? A skill ceiling being close doesn't matter as much as the actual mechanics and systems that make up that skill ceiling. A game can have a high skill ceiling because it loops forever, despite being shallow garbage with an unenjoyable scoring system.

Also :
>Jaimers played Rayforce for score for years and managed to get 8million
Proof that he played it for years or showed comparable levels of commitment to DDP? For all I know he played it for a few months and never even glanced at it again, like many other games he got decent scores in.

[Anonymous No.6421709]

>>6421689
>I said that Cave games have more complex, varied and deeper scoring systems. At first you said it's just enemy chaining and that it's shit, first is false, the second you didn't even bother justifying, because you can't.
That wasn't me, no problem.


>You're now attempting to substantiate that idiotic statement by saying what, that the hypothetical skill ceiling is the same? First off this isn't true, and you know this isn't true which is why you have to exclude games from your list for arbitrary reasons
Those are excluded for valid reasons because they have hard caps on their scoring and just aren't that difficult overall. I did mention Rayforce and Psikyo games, which don't have counterstops and can be just as hard and deep as getting high scores in Cave, yet you ignored those, wonder why.

> A skill ceiling being close doesn't matter as much as the actual mechanics and systems that make up that skill ceiling. A game can have a high skill ceiling because it loops forever, despite being shallow garbage with an unenjoyable scoring system.
I wouldn't consider that a real skill ceiling but a patience test. I gave examples of decent non-cave games that loop no more than twice, so stop trying to find cherries to pick.

If you look at a game like Gunbird 2 it has very simple scoring, kill everything, just no-miss, no-bomb it and collect the coins, but doing a NMNB is extremely difficult for 2 loops, and collecting coins also has the element of chaining pickups, so you have to do a very hard survival dance while also routing and timing pickups very carefully. The best western players are around ~50% or 60% of the WR....how can you say Cave is harder or more complex?

[Anonymous No.6421749]

>>6421709
You're not understanding the difference between difficulty and depth, Gunbird 2 might be as difficult but it's not as deep thanks to its very simple coin chaining. There's not a whole lot of nuance there, you pick up a coin or you don't, there aren't that many conflicting variables, small optimizations and routing possibilities besides not messing up. A Psikyo game with more depth would be Dragon Blaze because instead of individual flashing coins and chaining it uses a more free-form system where you generate coins with your dragon shot, meaning that while there are some obvious lucrative points, most enemies are potential sources of extra coins, and because of how the stages are laid out you have to figure out which enemies to d-shot and which coins to pick up, because you can't d-shot everything and pick up every coin. Think of rhythm games, they have next to no depth, but can get very difficult. The two simply aren't the same.

[Anonymous No.6421768]

>>6421749
>You're not understanding the difference between difficulty and depth, Gunbird 2 might be as difficult
The depth you speak of just boils down to memorizing and executing a stricter route with better timings.
I don't see what's so deep about DDP scoring for example. It just asks the player to perform a precise route, with very little margin of error, and alternate your shots accordingly, conserve your bombs and don't die....how is that so much more complex than a Gunbird2 world-class run?

I understand Cave scoring seems complex at the start, but once you get the hang of it, it's just another thing to memorize and practice.

It's not like the DDP player is doing calculus in his head while playing, while the GB2 player is reciting his ABCs really slowly.

[Anonymous No.6421792]

>>6421768
DDP scoring isn't very deep, it's more about raw challenge but at its core it works similarly to Gunbird 2, though there are some interesting little optimization quirks and later games added more nuance to it. It is much deeper than most old-school games though since it has the basic elements of not dying, not bombing and killing everything with chaining on top. Ketsui and Guwange would be better examples of scoring depth. You don't run math calculations as you play, it's something that happens across many runs and evolves slowly over time, but it's still important. It's not that CAVE scoring seems complex, it's almost quantifiably more complex. There are more working parts, all of them are interdependent. Obviously if you just stick to one route without improving it then none of this will apply, but that's not how it's done - even the best players evolve and discover things over time. It's not just "I'll try to perform this without failing", the routes become more risky and creative, just watch some races

[Anonymous No.6421815]

>>6421792
Explain what's so complex about Ketsui scoring?
What's complex about Guwange? it's DDP chaining but with game-long chains and more time to raise the counter...it's not complex or deep, it just asks the player to perform a very strict route with stricter shot timings, while dealing with rng boss milks, aka it's a matter of memo difficulty and mechanical execution. Just like psikyo or classic shmups.

>but that's not how it's done - even the best players evolve and discover things over time. It's not just "I'll try to perform this without failing", the routes become more risky and creative, just watch some races
How does that not apply to the games I mentioned?

[Anonymous No.6421829]

>>6421815
>it's DDP chaining but with game-long chains and more time to raise the counter
No it's not, do you even know anything about the fucking game? You saw chaining and went hurrr DDP when it's in fact completely different. The chaining is fluff to keep you moving, the bulk of the scoring system is about generating coins through switching between shot types according to situation so you want to switch between normal shot for popcorn at a certain amount of meter and kill bigger enemies with shiki because cancels give you more points, between that you need to cancel every bullet you can for more coins which involves delaying kills, stalling bullets with your shiki, "smearing" the shiki to catch bullets with its aura and using the autofire + tapping technique to get further milks off tougher enemies (since tapping manual shot with autofire active generates extra coins), boss milking itself is a mix of said tapping, and getting cancels while dodging dense patterns. There's a shit ton you can optimize and learn across every run because there's a lot of conflicting mechanics. Ketsui's in the same boat but desu I can't be arsed spoonfeeding it to you, how about you play the game? Worthless time wasting retard

[Anonymous No.6421837]

>>6421829
>changing shot types
yes, and? In DDP you need to laser big stuff and change shot types too.

>The chaining is fluff to keep you moving,
That's true, just like the bullet-canceling and alternating shot types, standard stuff. Don't know why you think it's so complicated.
You want to cancel more bullets, and you want to use the right shot type for the right enemy....wow.

>Don't know Ketsui
then don't mention it. You just point blank shit to collect [5] coins, elock and alternate shot types appopriately. Again boils down to routing, alternating shots and dodging, all this "cave scoring depth" is just fluff, as you said.

[Anonymous No.6421838]

>>6421815
Also one more thing, even the skull meter which keeps the chain going is vastly deeper than the chains you see in DDP - you get extra coins from kills and autofire tapping when it's flashing gold, it drops quickly and will frequently drop even when you're quickly repositioning your character or dodging. It can be filled up in several different ways like kills, shiki damage, bullet stalling and special scenery destruction (like the barrels that pop up once you walk over them, having a similar function to Psikyo coins where they get you to move, but without the timing) and you're not going to just be using one, it's up to you to figure out how to best fill up your skull meter and you'll be alternating between the different methods depending on the part of the game you're at and situation.

[Anonymous No.6421847]

>>6421838
>bullet floating is now a complex mechanic
Ok i'm out

[Anonymous No.6421848]

>>6421837
It's not fluff, it has significant gameplay effects you absolute mong.
> You just point blank shit to collect [5] coins, elock and alternate shot types appopriately.
Yeah? Can you explain to me, without googling, how the two multipliers work and then tell me some rules of thumb as to when you should be focusing on chip hoarding and when you should be cashing out? Do you even know? Have you tried it? Ketsui's scoring system's depth comes from the balance of these multipliers not really from the basic mechanics, any retard can get some 5 chips and then use focus shot for a small chain, but that will net you garbage scores in the long run.

[Anonymous No.6421849]

>>6421847
Mechanics on their own aren't complex the way they combine and interact is complex, you utter fucking dipshit. Hopefully you'll stay true to your word, don't waste anyone's time again

[Anonymous No.6421872]

>>6420740

based.

[Anonymous No.6421889]

>>6414019
The biggest truthpill of all is to play the shmups you find interesting, not the ones some idiotic forum says are the best
If you play the ones based on nothing but reputation you'll get burnt out

[Anonymous No.6421897]

>>6414336
>replying to larpers

[Anonymous No.6421902]

>>6415503
What is this meme of capitalising shmup?

[Anonymous No.6421907]

>>6420050
Niche genre that on /vr/ has been infested with /vg/ discord shitposters. They think there's a war with JRPGs and FF VII made men into feminine weak willed people or some other mentally ill nonsense. They confirmed don't even play, but ruin these threads

[Anonymous No.6421915]

>>6420740
>>6420926
/vr/ knows nothing about anime and even less about STGs

[Anonymous No.6421916]

>>6421253
Except it's right wing faggots that literally don't care about evidence
Look how many of them actually think soi lowers testosterone

[Anonymous No.6421934]

>>6420347
Don't buy those new Psikyo anthologies for Switch. They're cash grabs

[Anonymous No.6421947]

>>6421907
I'd rather play FF7R than Caveshit, and I am.

[Anonymous No.6421954]

>>6421916
>right wing faggots
faggots is a right wing term
>onions estrogens
diet science is shit, can't blame them, since there's evidence for almost any position when talking about foods

let's look at how many left wing fags think men can turn into women if they have a good enough disguise, think women have the right to kill their babies, and get duped by pleb commie propaganda on TV daily

[Anonymous No.6422089]

What are some great entry-level shmups? So far I've played:

Guardian Legend
R-Type (with savestates)
R-Type 2 (had it on the Amiga as a really young kid, I only reached the first boss a couple times and never beat him)
Sine Mora (I had fun with it, but I understand schmup fans don't like it?)
Ikaruga (playing GameCube port now, managed to beat 3rd boss so far)

Also interested in Radiant Silvergun and R-Type Final.

[Anonymous No.6422129]

>>6422089
see >>6414817

[Anonymous No.6422225]

aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.6422241]

>>6422089
how about r type without save states?

[Anonymous No.6422260]

>>6422089
Hishouzame, Vimana, Batsugun Special, Batrider (beginner course), Sorcer Striker, Kingdom Grandprix, Deathsmiles, Mushihimesama/Futari Original, Espgaluda, Donpachi, Sengoku Ace, Metal Black, Gekirindan, Area 88, Last Resort, Gradius 1, Gradius 2, Life Force, Xexex, Gradius Gaiden, Darius Gaiden, G-Darius, Under Defeat, Border Down, Strania, Sengoku Ace, Gunbird 1, Mystic Riders.

[Anonymous No.6422275]

Isn't it a little to post all these recommendations without citations? I don't want to waste my time with games that don't have an official endorsement from one or more top players.

[Anonymous No.6422287]

>>6422275
/vr/ is for namedropping anything else is /vg/ tier

[Anonymous No.6422289]

>>6422089
gunbird 1 is the best for beginners. get it on steam, it's currently on sale, and you can start at difficulty 1 and climb up gradually.

[Anonymous No.6422304]

getting new players into shmups is easy
keeping vets is hard

[Anonymous No.6422309]

>>6422304
Can't be that hard considering that most of the vets are still around since the mid to late 2000's

[Anonymous No.6422313]

>>6422304
transitioning past beginner level is the hardest part. most people drop out as soon as they hit their first big wall, or they game hop and never improve

[Anonymous No.6422318]

>>6422309
name a dozen

[Anonymous No.6422378]

>>6422318
Really nigger? Go dig through the forums and yt vids yourself if you're interested, obvious examples would be people like Plasmo, Zaarock, IcarusFW, Aquas, Gaymers & Emuser. People like Gus, Iconoclast, Chum and others have been playing for more or less 10 years aswell

[Anonymous No.6422615]

>>6421686
>>6421679
wtf is this

[Anonymous No.6422649]

playing on anything bigger is cheating and ez mode

[Anonymous No.6422696]

>>6422649
playing on an arcade machine is obviously cheating, it's only a legit run if you play on a seiko black and white wristwatch

[Anonymous No.6423037]

>>6420578
What should I be playing the game with? I'm just using the PS4 D-Pad now. I'm playing the Arcade Archives version. Is it normal to do well with regular ass controllers?

[Anonymous No.6423053]

>>6423037
ps4 dpad is fine. as long as you have a responsive and comfortable dpad you have everything you need. I don't like the ps4 dpad personallly but it's not going to be the deciding factor in how well you play. People used to get top scores with the 360 dpad 10-15 years ago when the xbox arcade was the place to go for arcade ports.

[Anonymous No.6423060]

>>6423037
Whatever you are most comfortable with, all controllers have their unique pros and cons but there are great stick, pad and keyboard players so it's a matter of preference. Unless you are particularly bad at using a gamepad it's not your controller but your lack of skill and experience. Just try to identify what kills you and your mistakes and work on them, it's all about practice and self analysis. Use savestates to practice and experiment punishment free if you can. In Life Force, the bottom left area of the fire level is one giant safe spot

[Anonymous No.6423127]

[Anonymous No.6423685]

I just had an idea. Have any of you done a "multi-game 1cc" before? Like a challenge where you clear multiple games in a series with one credit each, and if you fail you start over. There's a large community which does hitless marathons of the souls series, and it's not the exact same concept, but it could be fun.

[Anonymous No.6423880]

>>6416287
In that case get diagnosed and medicated for your undiagnosed and unmedicated ADHD (or ADD if not hyperactive).

[Anonymous No.6423894]

>DoDonPachi
>Esp.Ra.De
>Guwange
>Armed Police Batrider
>Battle Bakraid
>Battle Garegga
Are these the undisputed retro champs of the genre?

[Anonymous No.6423981]

>>6423894
branch out your tastes, frogposter

[Anonymous No.6423983]

>>6414019
Rayforce/Layer Section and Galaxian

[Anonymous No.6423986]

>>6423894
Lol wut

[Anonymous No.6423993]

>>6420652
I hate that tiny hitbox shit. I wish they'd have made most of those old games with hitboxes that conformed either exactly or close to the size of the ship

[Anonymous No.6423998]

>>6423894
>tranmaku
>good

[Anonymous No.6424172]

>>6414019
>ctrl f
>no mars matrix
yup, time to leave /vr/ for another 2 years

[Anonymous No.6424189]

>>6424172
I've actually played Mars Matrix recently, but it was the Dreamcast version, is there any differences that are notable between that one and the original arcade release?

[Anonymous No.6424198]

>>6424189
the base scores were changed for whatever reason. Other than that not that i know.

[Anonymous No.6424206]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIgFDSzrfk

[Anonymous No.6424209]

Look at this Ran

[Anonymous No.6424316]

>>6424189
the dreamcast port runs faster than arcade so some sections become a bit harder

[Anonymous No.6424478]

>>6424198
>for some reason
this was because the arcade version you could counterstop (999999999990 score), so they tweaked values to prevent a counterstop in the port.

Has a really kick-ass arrange mode called "Elite Mode" as well.

>>6424316
this is also the case with Giga Wing, another CPS2 shmup. Just come prepared for some shieldin'.

[Anonymous No.6424608]

>>6423993
Why? The games are all about bullet density, smaller hitboxes allow for more bullets and tighter dodges, so why not shrink them. Plus, the fuck difference does it make, it takes barely any time to figure and get a feel for your ship's hitbox, no matter the size. The only time hitboxes cause issues are when they're off-center or change size based on your movement, THAT'S retarded.

[Anonymous No.6424804]

>>6423993
Smaller hitboxes are made for tight bullet patterns, so you can micro-dodge when needed. Big hitboxes are made for macro style patterns. Totally different shit, your complaint makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.6424910]

chotto matte kudasai!!

[Anonymous No.6424917]

say what you will about Steam but it definitely pumped some popularity and juice back into shmups

[Anonymous No.6424951]

>>6424917
>say what you will about Steam but it definitely pumped some popularity and juice back into shmups
are the psikyo games actual ports or did they just rebrand MAME?

[Anonymous No.6425229]

>>6420050
/vr/ shmup threads are shit because talking about the good ones is met with
>>6414057

[Anonymous No.6425247]

>>6423880
My ADD is diagnosed but amphetamines cause more problems than they solve. I get by with good habits.

[Anonymous No.6425260]

>>6424316
Oh, I guess I can blame it on the Dreamcast that this game is kicking my ass left and right.

>>6424478
>Has a really kick-ass arrange mode called "Elite Mode" as well.
I think I remember playing this and what was different was the enemies that appeared on screen? Or something like that? I remember there's also a mode where you can buy permanent power ups making the game more like the Sega Saturn version of Radiant Silvergun

[Anonymous No.6425278]

>>6424951
>are the psikyo games actual ports or did they just rebrand MAME?
What do you mean by "actual ports" though? None of these games are actual ports. In other words, the original company didn't dig up the source code (that they probably don't even still have) for an ancient game and then rework and rebuild it for x86 processors. They're all some sort of emulator.

[Anonymous No.6425296]

>>6417946
Super Aleste is so fucking underrated it blows my mind. Great gameplay, ambientation and THAT OST

[Anonymous No.6425346]

Anyone else get pretty intense Tetris Effect when they play these games? Whenever I’m done playing one I see bullets every time I close my eyes and get a bit of a headache. I don’t think it’s a particularly bad thing but it’s still pretty odd

[Anonymous No.6425480]

[Anonymous No.6425491]

Oh yes, I got Flame Zapper Kotsujin working, on anex86 aka pc-98 emulator, finally.
If anyone is interested I got the emulator (2 files) here: https://www.zophar.net/pc98/anex86.html

And followed the instructions here, under the "anex86" part,
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6549.0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AmXEI_DILs
Such great gameplay, graphics and music, wow! Literally a ***hidden gem***

[Anonymous No.6425541]

>>6425491
Neat, will try.

[Anonymous No.6425573]

>>6425491
Anex is a trash emu, though. Install neko project 2.

[Anonymous No.6425602]

>>6425573
I tried the two Neko cores on Retroarch and they were slow and choppy.

anex86 is working fine so far...

[Anonymous No.6425759]

>>6420232
Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou on PS2 has a death label boss rush mode. But it's fucking nuts.

[Anonymous No.6425916]

post your favorite shmup stage theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3NmPvac9YY

[Anonymous No.6426092]

>>6425916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrzbyVvdxfY
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14QbWWMPBcg

[Anonymous No.6426121]

>>6425916
>>6426092
wew

[Anonymous No.6426140]

Fire shark is one of my favorite 16 bit shooters, but I never see anybody talking about it. Its easy once you get all the power ups, but still pretty fun.

[Anonymous No.6427081]

>>6426140
The game is great, try the arcade jap 1P version.
It's quite the challenge.

[Anonymous No.6427234]

>>6414646
One of the songs of that game is in Tyrian

[Anonymous No.6427302]

>>6425916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7u25A2toDY

[Anonymous No.6427320]

>>6425916
Music to shoot space dragons to
https://youtu.be/uP6kzetqhmE

[Anonymous No.6427352]

銀河婦警伝説サファイア (Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire) Music- Game Over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFhbwJWIUig

It's only 30seconds but it's good

[Anonymous No.6427423]

>shmup thread on /vr/
>mods haven't deleted it yet

[Anonymous No.6427548]

>>6425296
Most of the levels are fucking beautiful as well, and the powerups are easily identifyable after the first

[Anonymous No.6427587]

>>6427423
hopefully the anti-shmup jarpig jannies got killed by covid19

[Anonymous No.6427624]

>>6427587
Literal schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.6428545]

Thoughts on R Type Delta and Final?

[Anonymous No.6428550]

>>6428545
Delta is one of the best r types.

[Anonymous No.6428552]

>>6428545
Delta's painfully sluggish, overlong and kinda ugly but the stage designs aren't bad. Probably much better if you play with an overclocked cpu in an emulator

[Anonymous No.6429276]

>>6427081
I didn't even realize there was an arcade version. I need the check that out,

[Anonymous No.6429320]

>>6428545
Delta is a 5/10, Final is a 2/10.

Stick to Arcade when it comes to R-Type. II is the magnum opus. Leo is cool but not really an R-Type.

[Anonymous No.6429321]

Been playing Cho Ren Sha 68k and made it to Stage 2-0 but died. Would this be considered a 1cc since I made it past 1-6 and technically started the loop? :thonking:

[Anonymous No.6429326]

>>6429320
What makes Final so bad comparatively?

[Anonymous No.6429757]

What do I play after Sonic Wings Special

[Anonymous No.6429790]

>>6429321
What's 2-0 in CRS, the first stage or what? If you went to stage 1 of loop 2 then yeah it's counts as a first loop 1cc.

[Anonymous No.6429830]

>>6429757
You man up to Psikyo and forget about Video System's trash.

[Anonymous No.6430021]

>>6429320
Leo has great music and it's a relaxing change of pace for a pretty intense series. The world could use more spinoffs like it.

[Anonymous No.6430061]

>>6421341
I wish I would have bought this before the hype train jacked the price up. It's good but it shouldn't be that high. Seriously.

[Anonymous No.6430073]

>>6423127
Hidden or unknown gem for sure but I'm not sure how most traditional shmup would take that one. Probably negativly even though it's made by one one of the best shmup devs of that era. Hyper Duel is another little known release by Tecnosoft that fits the bill better but even more expensive.

[Anonymous No.6430632]

>>6430061
>I wish I would have bought this before the hype train jacked the price up. It's good but it shouldn't be that high. Seriously.
Story of my life bro. Especially for I am a zoomer.

Alas, just play the original version on Mame.

[Anonymous No.6430703]

>>6429321
Dont talk to me about 1cc until you at least beat this bad boy

[Anonymous No.6431018]

>>6429326
He's a shitposting non-player, they're both great games

[Anonymous No.6431532]

>>6430061
My Disc Replay had a clearly counterfeit one of these. Even the Genesis shell was wrong. Still wanted the $50.

[Anonymous No.6431705]

https://youtu.be/lHJJ0Q9xaa8

[Anonymous No.6431883]

Why is this allowed?

[Anonymous No.6432228]

>>6431018
>non-player
Well yeah, you'd have to be retarded to actually wanna play the piece of shit that is R-Type Final.

[Anonymous No.6432491]

>>6429320
man, Delta only average? Insanity.
Delta fixes the series' biggest problem, the 'sluggish' speed of the ship on death. Adding in manual speed makes the game feel far better.

It is a slow-paced game but I think it's slow-pace done right. As you note, it's because the stage designs are pretty good. Stage 5/6 are some of the best.

I kinda like R-Type Final casually but man it's a clunker. Talk about 'sluggish' stages. With like 1-checkpoint per stage sometimes; it's just too much.

[Anonymous No.6432586]

>>6431883
I assume you're referring to the way in which you died? I dunno if this specific situation is that bad, but Garegga hitboxes are most definitely way too big

[Anonymous No.6432870]

>>6418694
Did they ever figure out how to emu DX?

[Anonymous No.6432889]

>>6415503
I don't know. Super E.D.F uses a health bar and it's pretty good.
Phalanx also does and it's decent as well.
Axelay effectively does and it's probably one of the best on the SNES.

[Anonymous No.6432924]

>>6423880
Never take life advice from 4chan.

[Anonymous No.6432930]

>>6420050
Because you get like 30% in, you take a hit, and you just can't get back up to 100%.

[Anonymous No.6432941]

>>6432889
Don't forget steel empire.

[Anonymous No.6432950]

>>6432941
but that game sucks

[Anonymous No.6433063]

>>6432950
And zero wing doesn't have a health bar, so it must be good.

[Anonymous No.6433191]

I'm ripping Cave no Uta Black Label if anyone's interested. Gonna be a while, my disc reader is old and each CD has some 30 minute megamix.
https://vgmdb.net/album/18856

[Anonymous No.6433463]

>>6432228
Non-player hush

[Anonymous No.6433490]

>>6433463
I bet I've 1cc'd more R-Type games than you.

[Anonymous No.6433527]

>your vulcan shot colour is the same as the enemy's bullets

Why was this allowed?

[Anonymous No.6433834]

>>6421354
>>6421414
>Uncensored Dreamcast version

Does such a thing exist?

[Anonymous No.6434016]

>>6431705
My man

[Anonymous No.6434037]

>>6433527
because enemy bullets have different shapes and size, they are coming AT you, so the overlap with your spread shot is minimal. More importantly you should be avoiding bullets, not dodging them, specially since it's all macro dodging aimed bullets from very telegraphed angles. Learning enemy positions and their shooting behavior is the key, this isn't your grandma's slow ass danmaku.

[Anonymous No.6434052]

>>6414517
what are the top shmups for pc engine including cd titles?

[Anonymous No.6434053]

>>6434052
all the konami ports

[Anonymous No.6434395]

What are some nice atmospheric rainy day shmups?

[Anonymous No.6434414]

>>6434395
it would have to be garegga

[Anonymous No.6434456]

I can't believe ikaruga isn't getting more love here. If you are into anime chicks, my favorite top down shooter of all time is sentimental shooting. You have to run it in emulation so there is a guy who makes a modern version on steam called deep space waifu. There are a few versions. There is another one called waifu uncovered that feels more like a cross between the old 1941 games and aerofighters, but you shoot girls clothes off.

[Anonymous No.6434658]

If I play pic related in strictly "shmup" mode by entering the "tlg" password, am I missing out on much?

[Anonymous No.6435545]

>>6434658
woops I meant "tgl" password