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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6407764 No.6407764 [Reply] [Original]

What went right?
How do you even create a spin off game which is better than the fucking main series?

>> No.6407854
File: 149 KB, 250x354, Mariobrothers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6407854

Whoops wrong pic

>> No.6407907

>>6407764
Bump.

>> No.6408168

I know it's superficial but the crying Mario gimmick made me not want to play. been just sitting on my shelf for years. didn't care for the few enemy typed I saw for that matter

>> No.6408176

>>6408168
>gimmick
Are you serious? It's not a gimmick it's a fucking failure state punishment.
Every fucking Yoshi's Island thread, autists who can't handle more than a second of 16-bit syntheszied baby crying when their own shitty playing causes them to get hit.
It's good you dropped the game, you're such a fucking retard that you don't deserve to enjoy it. Kill yourself.

>> No.6408178

>>6407764
Nothing went right with this game. It's a terrible sequel. I would have preferred something similar to the original Super Mario World.

>> No.6408182

>>6408168
wow what a fat white girl

>> No.6408189

The egg throw is super satisfying and well implemented, great level design, tight controls, lots of replay value with the scoring system that rewards you both for thorough collecting and solid play, timeless artstyle and soundtrack

>> No.6408254

>>6408176
lol

>> No.6408257

>>6407764
Mario still didn't have bosses this good.

>> No.6408260

It wasn't a spin-off, it was literally Super Mario World 2

>> No.6408265

>>6408176
calm yourself you sensitive faggot

>> No.6408270

>>6408182
>projecting

>> No.6408321

>>6408168
Bait

>> No.6408340

>>6408189
>great level design
What's so good about it

>> No.6408528

>>6408260
The SMW2 subtitle was used only in the west, in Japan it's Super Mario: Yoshi's Island.
I personally like the SMW2 subtitle though, because Yoshi's Island (the actual island) is in SMW after all, so this game is like expanding on a region from another game, which I dig a lot. Also, even though the art style is totally different, Yoshi's Island still shares some stylistic similarities with SMW, the castles especially have a similar aesthetic, and sometimes they look like the Ghost Houses from SMW too, with the wooden structures.
But, it's really a spinoff, much like SML3: Wario Land

>> No.6408531

>>6408340
Not him, but levels in YI are all have smartly designed layouts, and have diversity, you've got more action-packed levels, puzzle-levels, maze-levels, etc.
I mean, it's the Mario Team we're talking about, doing their last late SNES game in 1995. You wouldn't expect less from them.

>> No.6408538

>>6408340
The game has a lot of variety, and it's almost all fun rather than frustrating. For a game with so many gimmicks, there are almost no levels where I go "ugh, this part" on replay. They get a ton out of the game's simple core mechanics.

>> No.6408548

>>6408270
you don't have to project very far to hit a white girl who is fat

>> No.6409032

>>6407764

One of the few games the Mario team wasn't on a strict deadline. Nintendo brass actually told them to take their time and make a GOTY.

>> No.6409049

>>6408176
Who hurt you?

>> No.6409060

>>6408531
It really feels like the last perfect game from them. They were at the top of their game and captured lightning in a bottle.

>> No.6409063

The gimmick in this game is not the crying baby Mario mechanic, but the Yoshi morph mechanic. It feels like the only reason it's in the game is to show off the add-on chip.

>> No.6409427

>>6409063
Was the extra chip even needed for these transformations? I think the chip was more used on the 3D stuff (like those polygonal-looking spinning wheels, or the awesome looking slime giant enemy that looks like actual slime, still one of the most unique graphics I've seen in games).
But the transformation stuff I think could be done without the chip not sure.
That said, I thought those were cool, I like all of them. The helicopter, the mole-tank, the car, the submarine, the train. They all have fun sections made for them.

>> No.6409443

>>6407764
I'm going to say 3 things:

1. The art style was incredible. I don't think any game had done something similar before? At the time it blew my mind not just HOW it looked, but how good it looked while doing that style.

2. Tight mechanics. the hold and release scheme (pro style, not the scrub double press option), the jump + foot shuffle, the tongue enemy swallow, all just tightly done and crisp on the controls. I would compare it to how tight SNES mariokart controls feel to n64 mariokart soupy/sloppy controls.

2. level design and variety were very good. Level design is good almost across the board, very very few "oh god this level" stages, and some interesting twists and turns along the way (skiing levels = badass, for instance). Various environments were well done, and there was enough variety to keep you going.

3. Replayability. Hangs along with the first two points, but also the collectibles/full 30 stars shit kept me replaying many levels over and over.

Bones #4: boss fights were pretty fun across the board, and the final fight one of my favorite final fights in any snes game.

>> No.6409519

I never understood the hatred of the crying. Just go get Baby Mario you faggot.

>> No.6409528

>>6409519
me neither, at the time of this game's release my younger brother was a year old, so I was used to it.

>> No.6409536

>>6409528
I'm an only child and I never understood it.

>> No.6409575

I quite like the baby bubble mechanic, so when I replayed Yoshi's Island recently I was disappointed when I only got hit twice in the entire game.

And I'm not like a yoshi's island expert or anything; this is the first time I'd played it in like 10 years.
So perhaps the fags who can't stand the crying don't like it because they see something of themselves in it? In that they are clearly poo poo diaper babies who should maybe go stack coloured blocks until they develop the motor skills to get good at a Mario game aimed at young children

>> No.6409807

"I don't like Yoshi's Island"
>autistic screeching heard from miles away

>> No.6409826
File: 204 KB, 277x359, mario.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6409826

>>6407764
That it piss off movie bob, because he through a game series that has a cast that's a troupe of actors has a cannon.

>> No.6409836

>>6409826
You have to have a high IQ to understand Mario canon.

>> No.6409843

>>6408168
Same here, shit game cause of that babby shit

>> No.6409853

>>6407764
masterpiece of snes era. especially great after playing the first one

>> No.6409859
File: 276 KB, 1200x500, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6409859

>Golden age Nintendo era
>Snes already mastered
>Last Mario on the console, no more chances to put cool 2d stuff in the future.
>3D consoles exist, you need to visually compete against them.

http://shmuplations.com/yoshi/

>> No.6409870

>>6409063
Definitely a gimmick. The only one that really worked is the helicopter.
And all the enemies roling and spinning around!

>>6409427
The SFX2 is mostly used for sprite rotations and scaling. All the transformations use rotations for animation. You could've animated that with extra sprites, but it wouldn't be this smooth.

>>6408528
And SMW is SMB4 in Japan.

>> No.6410363

>>6407764
Worst Mario sequel ever.

>> No.6410369

>>6410363
Correct, but it's a very good prequel.

>> No.6410376

>>6408168
There's a patch for this, for what it's worth

>> No.6410550

>>6409859
>>Last Mario on the console, no more chances to put cool 2d stuff in the future.

One of the top reasons it truly shines. I was kinda like Nintendo's farewell to Mario 2D platforming and an era in general.

>> No.6410712

>—In Yoshi’s Island the player controls Yoshi… but did you consider keeping Mario in the game as usual, and having Yoshi be able to get power-ups?

>Miyamoto: Well, a basic feature of the Mario games is that they’re easy to pick up and play, right? If we had two different control schemes—one for Mario, and another for Yoshi—it would quickly become too confusing.

>two different control schemes
>it would quickly become too confusing.


lol

>> No.6410719

>>6407764
>What went right?
Yoshi and Mario mostly went right.

>> No.6410757

>>6408168
don't get hit then

>> No.6410782

>>6410757
I bet Isai loves Yoshis Island.

>> No.6411039

This game has some of the best sound design out of any snes game. The baby crying just adds to it

>> No.6411084
File: 91 KB, 1280x720, Yoshi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6411084

>>6410782
based.

>> No.6411098

>>6410719
accurate

>> No.6411107
File: 16 KB, 320x240, secretmessage.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6411107

>>6407764
>How do you even create a spin off game which is better than the fucking main series?
by pouring your soul and heart into it

>> No.6411673

>>6409443
I agree with 99% of what you said except thinking Mario Kart SNES is tighter than N64 Mario kart. Maybe it's because I played a LOT of N64 Kart but it always felt super tight to me, maybe not as good as Double Dash but that's about it. Everything else you said is spot on. I replayed that game many times and still do just to play the fun levels like Touch Fuzzy get Dizzy and all of the boss fights.

>> No.6411837

>>6410369

Ill just say touché for him.

>> No.6412138

>>6411673
Thanks for the kind words, but I can't see how anyone could not notice how sloppy, soupy, and cumbersome the mario kart 64 controls are compared to the snes mario kart.

Snes mario kart is like driving a ferrari around a racetrack. n64 mario kart is like driving a 1982 buick station wagon with a big load of sand in the back. Just so sloppy and delayed. If you disagree, go grab toad and run some haunted house tracks from snes mario kart. Slap that bastard into a drifting corner and....goddamn. Tight as hell. Play that for awhile then go experience n64 mario kart. It's like driving a shopping cart in comparison

>> No.6412202

>>6411107
that fucking doggo is so cute

>> No.6412212

>>6412138
>like a ferrari
koopa player?

>> No.6412329

>>6407764
>How do you even create a spin off game which is better than the fucking main series?
By being possibly the most talented game director that we've ever seen.

>> No.6412331
File: 7 KB, 235x215, takashi tezuka.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6412331

>>6412329
Forgot pic

>> No.6412373

>>6409443
>The art style was incredible

Finally a fucking on /vr who appreciates it. I thought I was the only one reading the shitposts about it.

>> No.6412374

>>6407854
It's two-player and you actually fight the enemies all the time instead of just mostly avoiding them.

>> No.6412379

>>6412373
>finally
Pretty sure most people like it. The music is fantastic, too, too bad the sequels missed the point and turned all the music into baby-ish nursery music.

>> No.6412508

>>6412331
He's so underrated, and might honestly be the strongest designer at Nintendo. Why is he so infrequently mentioned? He seems to do most of the heavy lifting in a lot of projects.

>>6412379
Too bad Yoshis Island DS had one fucking song.

>> No.6412576
File: 201 KB, 1367x1258, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6412576

>>6412331
>Top down Mario never ever
Inb4 mariorpg.

>> No.6412864

>>6412576
>diagonally
We dodged a bullet there, isometric platformers suck, every single time. Shiggers had a good call there, as usual.

>> No.6413197

>>6412138
I guess to be fair I rarely played the SNES Mario Kart. After playing Mario Bros 3 constantly and then going back to Super Mario World on the SNES the controls feels all slippery and janky and then I get used to them after a few days and can make really tight jumps and then going back to Mario Bros 3 I die constantly. I can assume it's just me not being used to the physics when going between the games.

>>6412373
>The art style
Fucking beautiful game. Appreciated it as a kid and loved it more than Super Mario World. It was done correctly and makes the whole thing look like it's drawn with crayon. As a kid I always felt bad for the Yoshi that always had to fight the bosses (I think it was the purple or brown ones?). It felt like they weren't taking turns fairly to me.

>>6412508
>Yoshi Island DS
After the dissapointment of most sequels that made it to the DS (Except Chrono Trigger) I was expecting something much worse. It was still okay and playable but I never find myself wanting to go back and play the DS version whereas I constantly boot up my Yoshis Island cartridge to screw around.

>> No.6413209
File: 95 KB, 380x433, shiggy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6413209

>>6412508
>Why is he so infrequently mentioned?

>> No.6413217

>>6407854
I'm really itching to find out what "main series" you think the original Mario Bros. is a spin off of.

>> No.6413219

>>6408176
Based.

>> No.6413283

>>6413197
>Except Chrono Trigger
Chrono Trigger for the DS was pretty good. it's how I first experienced the game, and aside from getting to see it on a nice big CRT, the SNES version didn't really add anything for me.

>>6412373
I thought the art style for Yoshi's Island was almost universally liked nowadays, although I know a lot of people bitched about it on release.

>> No.6413291

>>6413217
Donkey kong

>> No.6413324

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVlTeIATBs

>> No.6413373

>>6408548
precious

>> No.6413954

>>6413283
>although I know a lot of people bitched about it on release.
Ive heard this and it always interested me, someone compared it to the initial reception of wind waker’s artstyle. Apparently a lot of criticism came from how childish it looked? Never thought about it til someone told me that but the earlier Mario games feel slightly more all-ages.

>> No.6414026

>>6412508
>>6412379
>Too bad Yoshis Island DS had one fucking song.
The soundtrac is YI weakest point too. It's simply not enough. DKC comes with a full blown album and YI gives you a couple of chiptunes. THey are good, but more variety would've brought the world alive.

>>6412576
Isn't that the latest game, Super Mario 3d World?

>> No.6414059

>>6413954
I personally always thought that the graphics were really well-done, and had an almost analog feel to them. Super Mario world feels a lot more flat and lifeless in comparison. But then I wasn't really paying attention to the banter at the time, personally did not even own a Super Nintendo until 1997 and didn't get Yoshi's Island until 1999. So well past the initial reception of the game.

I do, however, remember the shitshow over Wind Waker's art style. People would not shut up about how Nintendo was "100% a kiddie company" because the graphics were not "serious and dark enough for a mature gamer such as myself". They wanted Ocarina, and Nintendo gave them what they wanted with Twilight Princess. The funny thing is, Wind Waker has aged far better than either OoT or TP. It's smooth as butter and extremely responsive, and the visual style is both unique and timeless. It still looks good today, whereas no matter how you look at it, Ocarina feels dated. Wind Waker had a huge influence on the Breath of the Wild team, which borrowed extensively from WW.

>> No.6414417

The main problem with the game, which has been brought up in previous threads, is that there's only two 'ways' to play the game:
>non-100% absolute babby's first platformer
>100% throw your controller through a window collectathon
There's no in-between. It's like when you start up a playthrough of Sonic 2, and you kind of mentally say to yourself "Am I going to bother with emeralds, or not?" It massively changes how you play the game, but in this case, the game is too braindead fucking easy if you're not going for anything. It's poorly balanced.

>> No.6414428

>>6408176
>Are you serious? It's not a gimmick it's a fucking failure state punishment.
Fucking thank you. No game mechanic in the past 20 years has made me want to get gud better than that fucking crying baby did.

>> No.6414436

>>6407764
There have been lots of Mario games since YI to have great levels, great gameplay, great music, great all kinds of shit, but for some reason Nintendo has never been able to replicate the amazing visual style this game had. I honestly hate every Yoshi game more than the last. It's like Nintendo somehow forgot that the original looked amazing because it was simply well-crafted graphically and aesthetically, all they saw was "lol CRAYONS" so they had to make every subsequent Yoshi game look like some stupid gimmicky arts and crafts project instead of just looking nice.
Imagine if we got a well-made fully-fledged Yoshi platformer with Mario Sunshine graphics or something instead of "lol it's Yoshi but he's made of YARN SO ADORBZ!"

>> No.6414440
File: 110 KB, 600x860, boomerhauerx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6414440

>>6414417
>non-100% absolute babby's first platformer
I dunno man honestly I can breeze through games like SMW and MMX with my eyes closed but still find World 5 and 6 of Yoshi's Island a decent challenge.

>> No.6414442

>>6413217
t. moron

>> No.6414446

>>6414417
I don't think the game is that easy, and inversely, I don't think going for 100% is "throw your controller through a window", I also don't consider it collectathon. To get a 100% score, it's more important to not get hit, rather than to collect stuff. Granted, some levels have puzzle elements to grab some of the coins or the flowers, but I'm hesitant to call it a "collectathon", which I relate more to games that have collectables everywhere, and multiple kinds. In general, I don't really like the term "collectathon", it sounds extremely non-retro revisionism shit.
But going back to playing the game without caring about 100%, there's still a lot of tight platforming segments, tricky enemies, engaging boss fights, and also these insta-kill spikes in certain levels and castles.
I wouldn't call it Ninja Gaiden-levels of hard, but I dunno if I'd call it baby's first platformer either.
The times I've replayed the game, I don't bother to go for 100%, I just play it normally as I did when I was a kid, and then once I beat the game, I go back to complte the 100% in each level, in any order I feel like.

>> No.6414447

>>6407764
I never learned to enjoy the egg throwing mechanics, so Im not really a fan of SMW2.

>> No.6414507

>>6414446
>collect every coin in the level, goy, never know which one will a red one!
It's tedious padding in the form of collecting shit, i.e. a fucking collectathon.

>> No.6414550
File: 233 KB, 659x926, Caratula_Pokémon_Colosseum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6414550

>>6407764
Easy. GIving the entire control to another devs.

>> No.6414581

>>6414550
Not retro, but this is one of the quintessential examples.

>> No.6414582

>>6412379
My favorite song is the cave level.

>> No.6414958

>>6408168
Git gud

>> No.6414964

>>6408168
>been just sitting on my shelf for years.

Sell it and let someone else have this masterpiece.

>> No.6414976

>>6414507
>never know which one will a red one!
Jokes on you, if you pay attention, the red coins have a few dots of red pixels in them, you can recognize them if you pay attention. Otherwise, there's the "?" looking glass item you can use.
Regardless, collecting coins has been a thing in mario games since the beginning, maybe this was the first time that let you unlock something (well, not really, in SMB3 you get the white toad house if you collect a set amount of coins in certain levels, which give you the elusive anchor item), but that's really different from games that are often considered "collectathon" (again, shit term IMO), like Spyro or Banjo where levels are filled with all different kind of collectables every way you walk to.
>padding
As I said, I never felt that doing 100% was needed. It's an extra and an incentive to go back and complete levels once you beat the game. The extra levels are challenging and fun, but you don't need a 100% file to see the game's final boss and ending.
I think this neo-zoomer revisionist narrative of calling a platformer like Yoshi's Island a "collectathon" is getting a bit ridiculous. What game are you gong to revision next, is Pac-Man a collectathon?

>> No.6415087

>games with scoring systems are now "collectathons"
Delete this board.

>> No.6415140

Been replaying it for the first time in a long while. 2 worlds in.

100%ing never mattered to me at all. This time I’m trying to go for full completion. Sometimes it’s kinda nice to backtrack and explore every nook and cranny. World 2 has this underground mouse hole that’s really nonlinear, and the system was great there.

Going through a boss dungeon, there’s some doors which lock behind you and prevent back tracking and it sucks. I missed a single flower and couldnt walk back to the previous room. There’s no tell as to what doors you’ll be able to go back through. Just an annoyance.

So far I think the game is much better if you dgaf about scoring but I’m gonna see it to the end just to round out this childhood classic.

Im really impressed by how much identity each level has. I remembered just grassy generic platform plains but each level really is very unique, and fleshes out the world. Dkc2 is the only snes platformer I can think of that beats out YI when it comes to subtle storytelling via background and stage elements.

>> No.6415146

>>6415140
>Im really impressed by how much identity each level has.

I always found that you notice this even more as you begin a 100% run.

>> No.6415154

>>6415087
how do i do that

>> No.6415416

>>6408176
Absolute Reddit moment right there.

>> No.6416101

>>6415416
>DURRR REDDIT
Fuck off retard, complaining about baby Mario's crying in Yoshi's Island is the only thing "reddit" going on in this thread.

>> No.6416114

>>6415087
Post your high scores in YI, everybody

>> No.6416168

>>6407764
>What went right?
Nothing, anon. Nothing. This game is horseshit.

>> No.6416174

>>6416168
HAHAHAHA WHOA HE SAID IT GUYS, HE'S SO AGAINST THE GRAIN WOOO GO REBEL ANON! STICK IT TO THE MAN!

>> No.6417073

Wait, people sperg out over the crying baby? My god it's only for brief moments of you making a mistake. The noise kamek makes is way worse, especially when you're busy doing something and suddenly hear it, haha

>>6412212
yes, I switched off to either. I actually preferred koopa for some reason driving, but toad for the enemy set. Fuck luigi neverending star power, princess' stupid shrink thing was less painful.

Both are almost exactly the same for driving I think though I always seemed to have slightly better times with koopa

>>6412373
I'm surprised to hear that people don't didn't like the art? It was fuckin incredible when it first came out. I mean my roommates and I (dating myself here) were blown away by it but maybe I missed something that did it before.

>>6413197
SMW had good gameplay, great sound, but underwhelming graphics for sure when it was released.