/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6391000]

How did Garland become Chaos? Did the Fiends turn him into Chaos when they pulled him back in time? Was he already Chaos when you fight him the first time? Did he create the Fiends? I don't really get how this time-loop works. Was it just lost in translation or is the Japanese version just as confusing?

[Anonymous No.6391017]

https://www.ffcompendium.com/h/ff1story.shtml

[Anonymous No.6391142]

>>6391017
I read all of that and it made close to zero sense

[Anonymous No.6391168]

Is 8-bit Theater worth reading?

[Anonymous No.6391238]

>>6391000
I think some versions imply that it had to do with his hatred interacting with either the dark crystal or the elemental crystals.
> Was he already Chaos when you fight him the first time?
By that point the time loop was going, so yes.
>Did he create the Fiends?
Yes.
It's a bit tricky, but the general gist is:
>Garland kidnaps Sarah
>The warriors of light kill him
>Garland gets sent to the past and becomes Chaos
>Creates the Four Fiends
>The Light Warriors arrive
>Chaos kills them
>Fiends promptly wreak havoc over the course of thousands of years
>All the while, Chaos slowly loses his powers and memory, eventually returning back to Garland
>Goes to Cornelia and becomes top knight
>Princess Sarah rebuff his love for her
>Garland kidnaps Sarah
The loop gets broken either when the Warriors of Light kill Chaos at the end of the game or when Garland kills the warriors at the beginning of the game.

[Anonymous No.6391384]

It's a time travel story with barely any exposition. Just make up your own lore if you don't feel like reading.

[Anonymous No.6391441]

>>6391238
But who built Warmech?

[Anonymous No.6391449]

>>6391441
I dunno. Tiamat?

[Anonymous No.6391485]

>>6391441
The ancient people who lived on the flying fortress.
If you want to go in that direction, I'm pretty sure Dissidia supports that possibility, but I do not want to discuss Dissidia.

[Anonymous No.6391601]

>>6391441
The lefeinish made pretty much all the robots and the sky castle. They also made airships.

[Anonymous No.6391645]

>>6391238
Who sent Garland back?

[Anonymous No.6391648]

>>6391238
how did garland get turned into chados?

[Anonymous No.6391669]

>>6391645
>>6391648
See, the tricky aspect is that it somewhat depends on what you read/see: I believe Garland himself claims that the fiends sent him back (though I may be misremembering, it's been ages since I saw his speech) while the endings for most versions of the game say that the crystals did it due to Garland's hatred.
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/wsc/a/ff.htm
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/c/ffo.htm
The Wonderswan ending is the one most ports go with.

[Anonymous No.6391869]

I think it's nothing short of a miracle that Final Fantasy was popular at all given what a complete nonsensical pile of garbage FF1 has for a story on top of its massive assortment of bugs and glitches.

[Anonymous No.6391897]

>>6391869
Only bugs were spells that didn't work, int and luck being broken, and magic not scaling.

[Anonymous No.6391929]

>>6391441
The people who had lived along with the Lefenish in and around the desert. Mirage tower is the remains of a city that used to be there before they blew themselves to shit. If you wanna go based on the lore from FFT, the Ronka Empire, also, >>6391485...space station.

[Princess Sevenleaf !IT2uZpX.Ic No.6391957]

>>6391897
Critical hits are also bugged. Every weapon has a specific crit rate assigned to it, but the game doesn't use it, instead crit rates are based on the weapon's location in ROM.

Some swords are supposed to deal greater damage to specific types of monster (like the Dragon Sword, Were Sword, etc.) but they don't.

HEL2 has the same effect as HEL3 when used in battle, but not when used on the field.

Houses are supposed to restore your party's HP and magic points and then save the game (essentially acting as a portable inn), but instead it saves the game and then restores your party's HP and magic points. Meaning if you reload your save, your party won't be healed. Oof, big blunder Square.

[Anonymous No.6391960]

>>6391441
japs

[Anonymous No.6391994]

>>6391168
Yes.

Thumbnails are too small to read, I don't know if I'm posting a good one. I select at random.

[Anonymous No.6392014]

>>6391897
INT was never 'broken'. In the games that FF1 was emulating INT affected only the amount of spells you can learn, this is handled simply by your level in FF1 for simplification, making INT more or less for flavour as tying spell learing to the stat would be functionally no different. But it still represents what it is supposed to: the amount of spells a mage can memorise.

[Anonymous No.6392064]

>>6391957
>Houses are supposed to restore your party's HP and magic points and then save the game (essentially acting as a portable inn), but instead it saves the game and then restores your party's HP and magic points. Meaning if you reload your save, your party won't be healed. Oof, big blunder Square.
No, it restores your HP, then saves, then restores MP. And this is exactly what it says it will do in the text within the game, so I don't know why people call it a glitch. It goes like this:

>Use House
>"HP restored! Save game and restore magic points? A - Yes / B - No"

It does exactly those things in exactly that order. You can't restore your magic without saving and the save won't actually save the magic restoration since it happens first just like the text says it will. I think the real reason this happens is that the developers seemed to think that magic was super powerful and looked for ways to limit its use. If you read the manual you're given the impression that magic is perceived as OP as fuck, but ironically all the excessive limitations make it kind of shit compared to martial class physical attacks.

[Anonymous No.6392164]

the real question is did any of the other FFs actually happen or are they all apart of chaos' imagination

[Anonymous No.6392668]

>>6391960
based

[Anonymous No.6392669]

>>6392164
They're all different stories from what I understand. They can't all be Chaos's imagination.

[Anonymous No.6392692]

>>6391929
The FFT Ronka aren't part of the story, are they? They're just mentioned in the discoveries, iirc and I think I do. The game where the Ronka are a strong part of the story is FFV.

[Anonymous No.6392819]

>>6392164
>>6392669
>Final Fantasy I-II releases
>every other game in the FF franchise was all a dream

[Anonymous No.6392905]

>itt nobody talked to the lefein warriors who got turned into bats

Here's what I understand happened in the original NES version:
>OG timeline
>Lefein are a mighty hi-tech civilization
>four fiends appear and wreck the shit out of it
>Lefein send their five best warriors and kill the fiends
>despite winning, their infrastructure is fucked and they abandon their sky palace
>two thousand years later technology regressed but everything is peaceful
>now that bitch-ass knight Garland wants ransom from the king and kidnaps his daughter
>gets his ass slain by four warriors instead

But then
>fiends have a dark crystal ball in their palace that can peer into the future
>they see themselves getting beat up by the Lefein warriors
>they also see this evil dude Garland's corpse laying next to their orb in the distant future
>they decide to alter fate and combine their powers to pull Garland into the past and revive him
>put all their energy into him to make him strong as shit and turn him into their leader Chaos
>Chaos beats the snot out of the five warriors and curses them into bats to further humiliate them
>but he is still too weak to annahilate the robot army and warmechs who are still under Lefein control
>so he comes up with a plan
>Chaos knows the Lefein regressed in the future, making them sitting ducks
>so he sends the four fiends forward into the future to wreak havoc without resistance while he lays low
>the fiends don't just destroy the earth, they harvest elemental energy and channel it back to the temple of fiends
>each time the fiends pull a dead Garland from another timeline, the energy harvested in the current timeline gets send back too and added onto the energy already harvested in the other timelines
>making Chaos stronger each time the cycle repeats until he's strong enough to singlehandedly crush the entirety of Lefein at its peak
>the four light warriors then come in to break the cycles by murdering the fuck out of chaos

[Anonymous No.6393112]

>>6392164
it's all part of st. elsewhere

[Princess Sevenleaf !IT2uZpX.Ic No.6393405]

>>6393112
omg

>original translation of FF1 calls crystals "orbs"
>cover art looks like a snowglobe

[Anonymous No.6393441]

>>6391238
Epic fantasy lore (real epic fantasy) is so comfy.

[Anonymous No.6394185]

>>6392905
bump

[Anonymous No.6394641]

>>6392692
Its a name thrown out in Tactics. The some of it bases itselfsrlf on the old story build of a once great civ falling and the present looking back on it w/o the lens of hubris.

[Anonymous No.6397095]

>>6392819
But there is no connection between 1 and 2.

[Anonymous No.6397185]

>>6391238
That anon, I'd make an addendum after looking into it a bit more.
>Was he already Chaos when you fight him the first time?
Odds are actually no. Having looked at the endings for each version and the wiki, it seems like it goes
>Garland dies
>Garland's hatred interacts with the crystals
>The crystals create the fiends
>The fiends send Garland back in time
>Garland becomes Chaos
>Garland sends the fiends forward in time
But that's probably not totally it either because that would mean there are two versions of the fiends, unless them already existing thanks to Chaos prevents the crystals from creating them (either that or the fiends messing with the crystals prevents them from creating the fiends in the first place).
Basically, the time loop is wack.
>>6392905
The main issue with this is that Garland/Chaos doesn't want to break the loop because it's essentially a convoluted way of making himself immortal.

[Anonymous No.6397305]

>>6397185
>But that's probably not totally it either because that would mean there are two versions of the fiends
But there actually ARE two versions of the fiends in the game. The ones you fight in the present to light the crystals and the ones you fight in the past before facing Chaos.

[Anonymous No.6397350]

>>6391000
Garland is sephirot written by Nomura.

[Anonymous No.6397418]

>>6397305
Yeah, but I assumed that those were the newly created (or recreated, as it were) fiends before Chaos shot them into the future. The original fiends are implied to have been created when the crystals got infected with Garland's hatred.

[Anonymous No.6397716]

>>6397418
The ones in the past are more powerful than the ones you fight in the present, so I assume it's the newly-created ones that get spread into the present on each loop while Chaos and the originals in the past continue to gain power.

[Anonymous No.6397857]

Has anyone played this game in the original Japanese? I imagine it's far clearer without the translation getting in the way.

[Anonymous No.6397884]

>>6397857
The story being so convoluted and complex is what made final fantasy so popular in japan.

[Anonymous No.6398774]

>>6397884
Why do japs love convoluted and over-explained shit so much?

[Anonymous No.6399450]

>>6391000
>Garland's anger and hatred flows backwards through time via the Dark Crystal at the point of his death
>This awakens the Four Fiends, who use him as an anchor to the future.
>The Fiends bestow Garland with immortality if he promises to send them forward in time past their own deaths to ruin the world.
>Garland uses his powers to create the Dark Crystal to begin with
>Everytime Garland dies, the Fiends ruin the earth, or the Warriors of Light die, that pain and suffering gets funnelled back in time, turning Garland into Chaos.
>Choas keeps his end of the bargin by sending the fiends forwards in time to moments when they can cause maximum suffering
>When you first fight Garland, Chaos is already watching and waiting to start the loop. The Loop is Garland's death and the Light Warriors dying at Chaos' hands before he facilitaes his soul coming through time.
>When you're fighting the Fiends at the end of the game, you're fighting their original incarnations: dread beings from long ago.They have to be sent forwards in time because the Warriors always kill them if they make it that far (that's why the Temple is in Shambles in the present)
>You kill the fiends and Chaos before he can pull Garland's soul back; ending the loop.

[Anonymous No.6399509]

it's crazy when you think about the fact that FF1 had the Lit spell, which is short for Lightning, who is the main character of FF13

makes you wonder just how far in advance Square had the FF storylines plotted out

[Anonymous No.6399535]

>>6399509
>the Lit spell, which is short for Lightning

[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.6399915]

>>6399509
Anon, I...

[Anonymous No.6399958]

>>6392014
It wasn't emulating anything. You're right that it wasn't called for anything, it was a flavour stat so that mages have a stat they specialize in. It was pretty common, in many games stats were there for flavour or were "used" in a way to make them not completely cosmetic, but overall pointless. In BoF1 Wisdom decreased magic damage when defending and affected some spell hit rates by 12.5%, overall a useless stat but important for game feel.

[Anonymous No.6399985]

>>6391000
If there is a game that deserves expansion and a proper remake it's the original FF, it's very stock fantasy/dnd, but I think that gives it an edge in a fantasy scene where everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel... well that and a recognizable name, also if it was good it'd help FFs floundering image, its gone from the top series to a well-selling but disappointing series, not unlike something like Fast and Furious.

[Anonymous No.6400352]

>>6399958
>In BoF1 Wisdom decreased magic damage when defending and affected some spell hit rates by 12.5%, overall a useless stat but important for game feel.
How is that useless? It has actual functions within the game and a character defending with low wisdom is functionally different from a character defending with high wisdom. In FF1, Int does LITERALLY NOTHING.

[Anonymous No.6400459]

>>6399985
In terms of expansion, Dissidia expands on I's story, but most of the stuff there is only used in crossovers (and it's also kinda complex), usually being Garland and the Warrior of Light's portrayals.

[Anonymous No.6400795]

>>6399985
Im so worried about la familia senpai....

[Anonymous No.6401250]

>>6398774
Presents an illusion of depth. Many such cases.

[Anonymous No.6401984]

>>6400352
It is useless, those effects are negligible. Reduction from 37.5% to 25.0% is not a big deal and it only comes into play if the players Wisdom is higher than the attacker, and the Defend magic damage reduction is about on the same scale, and in BoF there is never a need to defend against anything. Those effects are there to justify the stats existence outside of being purely cosmetic, rather than having a real noticeable effect on gameplay.

>>6400459
Dissidia is, well, dissidia. I mean a proper remake in the real sense, not a graphical overhaul like the PSX/GBA/PSP versions are, but something in the same vein as the FF7R is to FF7, going into more depth about the world and the storyline. They could use all of the worldbuilding from Dissidia to give the world more depth.
Imagine a mechanically more rounded experience with the vancian magic system, with character building options to make the 6 classes more specialized or broad as you wish to play them, with more backstory and worldbuilding, it would make the very first Final Fantasy feel today like it felt back in 1987.
It would also be a great way to get new people in to the old style of RPGs, rather than running away from it. Dragon Quest does it and DQXI was a huge success.

[Anonymous No.6402001]

>>6401984
this is artwork for FF3 if i am not mistaken

[Anonymous No.6402020]

>>6402001
ff1

[Anonymous No.6402035]

>>6401984
I haven't played Dissidia but from what I've seen it seems like it and a more old fashioned dnd type atmosphere are near mutually exclusive. A Dragon's Dogma clone would probably be better for modern sensibilities trying to capture the sort of feeling the first game had.

[Anonymous No.6402051]

>Garland claims he'll knock you down
>gets knocked down himself

have square's writers always been so poetic

[Anonymous No.6402054]

>>6402035
Dissidia is a fighting game but it had some worldbuilding for the original.

[Anonymous No.6402075]

>>6402051
Based Exdeath

[Anonymous No.6402082]

>>6402051
>>6402075
>Turns himself into a splinter
>Reappears to fight a turtle
>Boasts to the turtle that there won't be any pizza in the afterlife
Very based Exdeath.

[Anonymous No.6402169]

>>6399509
Blew my mind

[Anonymous No.6402259]

>>6401984
>Those effects are there to justify the stats existence outside of being purely cosmetic, rather than having a real noticeable effect on gameplay.
Okay sure, but in FF1 the INT stat is literally used in ZERO calculations for ANYTHING.

[Anonymous No.6402326]

>>6401984
>Imagine a mechanically more rounded experience with the vancian magic system, with character building options to make the 6 classes more specialized or broad as you wish to play them,
You're asking too much of Modern Square. You'll get WoL and maybe Sarah. Maybe Matoya too if they're feeling bold.
>>6402001
Nah, FF3 Sara looks different from FFI Sarah. That artwork is the basis for her usual appearance in spinoffs.

[Anonymous No.6402368]

>>6402051
I kid you not, he turns himself into a splinter
He's called Splinter Exdeath
Funniest shit I've ever seen

[Anonymous No.6402390]

>>6402326
I meant more inline with the six classes having skill trees and such. Maybe having Black Mage that specializes in mid-level spells or a red mage with elemental sabers. They could keep the turn based battles but the enemies are in "9x9 grid" and the allies are on two rows, even that would give so much different possibilities for characters skills to be more based on positioning.

[Anonymous No.6403278]

>>6399509
Dude, the animation for lit is a line of lightning.
Lightning can only go in a straight line in FF13.
Deep lore man.

[Anonymous No.6403327]

>>6403278

[Anonymous No.6403329]

>>6402390
>They could keep the turn based battles but the enemies are in "9x9 grid" and the allies are on two rows, even that would give so much different possibilities for characters skills to be more based on positioning.
Try Live-A-Live or Radiant Historia.

[Anonymous No.6403362]

>>6403329
I have.

[Anonymous No.6403413]

>>6399509
Lit is also the past tense of light. Like what you did to your lighter before you smoked some dank kush

[Anonymous No.6403593]

>>6402390
I was moreso taking a crack at you thinking they'd have the 6 classes rather than taking the opportunity to decisively make it so that WoL was the only Warrior of Light.
Besides, SE doesn't seem to be into turn-based right now (or at least, the part that handles FF).

[Anonymous No.6403849]

>>6391168
Yes.

[Anonymous No.6403885]

>>6402368
>Exdeath
Isnt Exdeath is actually Evil tree?

[Anonymous No.6403907]

>>6391897
>Only

[Anonymous No.6404024]

>>6403593
Fair enough, I could see them forcing WoL in to the party. Yeah, that's kind of my point as well, the teams working on FF at SE seem to have this idea that they have to chase trends no matter how badly it fits with FF as a series. XV was a mess, and they didn't even finish it, and XIII for all its faults was a decent enough game if left at a single installment. One would hope they'd see a reason to take a step back and look at what the series roots are and what worked. Thus a new full scale FF1, not even an AAA-release but something on the scale of BravelyDefault2.

If they really did make it it'd probably be about WoL being a broody teenager wielding an AK47 and the game would be a linear beat 'em up with a Sepiroth-like bishounen as a final boss right before you were supposed to beat Astos.

[Anonymous No.6406078]

This game need remake more than FF7