/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6375861]

>be dragon quest
>get away with using traditional jrpg mechanics
>be any other jrpg that tries the same thing
>get tons of criticism for not innovating

Why is DQ so special?

[Anonymous No.6375870]

>Why is DQ so special?
it's a mystery

[Anonymous No.6375874]

>>6375870
No way is Akira carrying the series on his own.

[Anonymous No.6375916]

>>6375861
You kidding me? DQ is constantly getting shit on for not being innovative.

[Anonymous No.6375919]

Dragon Quest is boring as fuck.

[Anonymous No.6375921]

>>6375861

>DQ11
>Plays like a 90's JRPG

Said just about every reviewer who touched it.

[Anonymous No.6375923]

>>6375861
>Dragon Quest is boring as fuck.

Back to your homework zoomer.

[Anonymous No.6375946]

Are there JRPGs that are actual games instead of visual novels with a combat system?

[Anonymous No.6375959]

>>6375946
You mean more open world type games made by japanese? Tons.

[Anonymous No.6375981]

>>6375861
Complex combat and dozens of repeating battles don't work together at all.
I would prefer complex combat with unique battles that are more like chess puzzles to DQ's little hp/damage gambling minigames, but if you're doing the DQ formula, you must either copy the whole thing or stay away from it. You can't borrow just some elements, because most of the really fucking suck on their own.

DQ works because (1) combat is too easy to be grating, (2) you never lose progress (there is no Game Over screen at all), and (3) the fiction makes you want that exp and gold, so the simple encounters become actually welcome. As you trek to the asshole boss whom you already want fucking dead, every shitty ghost killed makes you stronger, and it feels really good. You don't know whether you'll be strong enough, though, which creates suspense. You have the decision to either push on and attempt the boss right now and risk losing half your gold, or warping home half way through the dungeon, resting, deposition the money in the bank and trying again. Sublime shit, this.

[Anonymous No.6375983]

>>6375874
Horii, Sugiyama and Toriyama are all equally important. It really is a dream team of pop-culture superstars who really fucking know how to pull off the lighthearted adventure thing.

[Anonymous No.6375985]

>>6375981
>I would prefer complex combat with unique battles that are more like chess puzzles to DQ's little hp/damage gambling minigames
So like how Paper Mario did it, I assume.

>You have the decision to either push on and attempt the boss right now and risk losing half your gold, or warping home half way through the dungeon, resting, deposition the money in the bank and trying again.

It's good to see DQ at least kept some of its wizardry, old crpg traditions of losing stuff on death. Don't see that anymore in jrpgs in general, save for the Souls series.

[Anonymous No.6375989]

>>6375946
Every DQ game pre-VII is extremely focused on exploration and puzzles. Even the more story-centered DQV is still mostly travelling the world, finding shit, getting mosnters to join you, marrying chicks, training your kids, that kind of thing. DQ3 is an outright open world game. It has hidden linearity for a while (you are not told where to go, but only one way advances the story) and then opens up entirely.

[Anonymous No.6375997]

>>6375985
>So like how Paper Mario did it, I assume.
Paper mario is brilliant stuff, sure. Encounters repeat, but different attacks are different minigames, enemies come in different combinations which requires different strategies, and you learn to efficiently dispose of enemies and their timing and stuff only gradually, which makes repetition actually welcome. I still get tired after a while, but yeah, PM is one of the best examples of JRPG design. And there's platforming too. Both games are great.

[Anonymous No.6376002]

>>6375985
>It's good to see DQ at least kept some of its wizardry, old crpg traditions of losing stuff on death. Don't see that anymore in jrpgs in general, save for the Souls series.
Final Fantasy hits you with a Game Over. Strictly speaking, it's an even harsher punishment: you lose all progress after the last save and you can't save in dungeons either. But in reality this simply doesn't gel with repetitive combat and the concept of JRPG progression.

[Anonymous No.6376004]

>>6375997
What would make Paper Mario better? Less repeat battles and just keep emphasis on platforming and story? Isn't that what Super Paper Mario technically did? I know Paper Mario Thousand Year Door just took the unique battles even further, but was more repetitive.

[Anonymous No.6376005]

>>6376002
FF however not only heals you after every battle, but save points are very easy to come by, even since the days of FF7. The snes games were a little bit harsher with this.

[Anonymous No.6376012]

>>6376005
>FF however not only heals you after every battle
The first one that does this is 13.

[kuuhaku No.6376012,1]

>>6376005
that only happens in FFXIII,FFXIV and FFXV


draquest is a masterpiece that doesn't have an equal the closer game would be by enix studio called star ocean

[Anonymous No.6376015]

>>6376012
FF10 gets rid of all your ailments I believe after every battle, and you get automatic healed at save points, mostly due to the redundancy of no one using tents at them.

[Anonymous No.6376016]

>>6376004
Sometimes dungeons got kinda tedious, but it's not a systemic high level problem, I think. Just very specific design decisions that didn't quite pan out. Overstepping challenge and creating tedium is very easy, especially considering it's so subjective.

[Anonymous No.6376018]

>>6376016
You have to be careful not to do the Chrono Cross effect, where they got rid of exp grinding and instead made it so you leveled up after story points or beating bosses. To me, that felt more weird than just leveling naturally. I can't explain it.

[Anonymous No.6376030]

>>6376018
Chrono Cross seemed interesting at the time because I never played a Saga game and thought FFVII was the pinnacle of complexity, but, really, it was neither well-designed nor particularly inventive.

[Anonymous No.6376039]

>>6376002
>>6375985
In original Wizardry you can't continue from an earlier point, the game saves every step if you want it or not. If your party gets wiped out you have to retrieve the dead from the dungeon to revive them if you want to keep their progress.
DQ is more like Ultima in that regard where you got revived by Lord British after a party kill.

[Anonymous No.6376051]

>>6376039
Yeah, in Wizardry you're a sort of a manager for your party rather than a party member. They can all die and you can get a new party and explore anew or you can find the old members and drag them back to safety to revive.

[Anonymous No.6376797]

>>6375946
I mean, even something like FF7 has more gameplay than most Dragon Quest games

[Anonymous No.6376809]

>>6375861
>be any other jrpg that tries the same thing
>get tons of criticism for not innovating
This is a thing that happens? The most recent JRPGs with turn-based combat that I can remember are P5 (which still uses a bunch of the same mechanics as Nocturne) and Octotraveler. And I'm pretty sure they were both well-received. Hell, even the Pokémon drama has nothing to do with the combat mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6376814]

>>6376809
Anime and Nintendo gets a pass cause of their fanboys.

[Anonymous No.6376816]

>>6376814
Not that your argument isn't retarded anyway, but Pokémon didn't get a pass. The backlash was really big and it had nothing to do with the combat mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6378251]

>>6375861

What other people have said plus:

Tradition / Nostalgia - some people get tired of excessive needless complexity. Other JRPGs just have "too much" - inflated numbers with extraneous zeros, complicated mechanics that ultimately do nothing, byzantine house of card plot logic, class systems that try too fucking hard to be "unique", "this spiky hair lone wolf is different from other spiky hair lone wolf: characterizations, epilepsy visual animations to cover the lack of substance, etc.

DQ games are Comfy: The JRPG.

[Anonymous No.6378505]

>>6376015
Well this is /vr/, and the retro FFs don't do that.

[Anonymous No.6378520]

>>6375946
Sure.