Dirty Cheating Robots

[Anonymous No.6371440]

Retro video games cheat their asses off when it comes to things like input reading, resource advantages, superior vision, and other handicaps.

Anything the player cannot directly observe, it's usually better to assume the CPU is manipulating it in its favor in some way, shape, or form. Almost every single video game AI cheats in some capacity.

Does anyone here know of any examples of a game notorious for input reading, like Mortal Kombat, having its source code decompiled?

I would feel massively vindicated to know whether some more popular games games use a pre-determined percent chance of a CPU selectively ignoring a read input it's read, or if they're doing everything they can to perfectly counter whatever you do with the conclusion that they're still susceptible to cheesy tactics that would make them trivial if they didn't cheat hardcore.

Pic unrelated.

[Anonymous No.6371470]

>>6371440
No shit Sherlock, this is widely known and why. Computers especially old ones can't compete with human strategy. The only way to make them at least somewhat challenging is to give the AI advantages like input reading and not charging moves.

At least you didn't post that Jade webm again but fuck your complaining is juvenile.

[Anonymous No.6371486]

>>6371470
If you'd read my post you would see my question was whether popular games had been decompiled because I'm curious of their exact methods, fuck nugget. I'm not bitching.

Writing an intro to my post to set the stage so everyone can follow the conversation is just good communication.

[Anonymous No.6371503]

>>6371486
You're right I stopped reading mid way and am now more thankful for it.

[Anonymous No.6371504]

>>6371503
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.6371516]

>>6371504
Lol no.

Incidentally though, they always read inputs, it's just how the computer plays. It's not sitting there watching the screen, it's looking at the inputs the player is doing and reacting to those. All AI in video games works like that. The algorithm is how often it will block or counter and how aggressive ot is over all.

[Anonymous No.6371518]

>>6371516
I literally said all of that in the OP and was asking for examples.

[Anonymous No.6371526]

>>6371518
Every single video game where you play against an AI opponent.

[Anonymous No.6371531]

>>6371526
>Does anyone here know of any examples of a game notorious for input reading, like Mortal Kombat, having its source code decompiled?

Your claim:

>The algorithm is how often it will block or counter and how aggressive ot is over all.

So what kind of RNG factors into this decision?

If high punch, high block, unless RNG value is less than 200, then continue last input for 1 sec?

It's obviously demonstrable that every fighting game reads inputs, and the vast majority of beat 'em ups.

These algorithms you're talking about are what I want to see taken apart.

[Anonymous No.6371634]

>>6371531
>If high punch, high block, unless RNG value is less than 200, then continue last input for 1 sec?

Yeah, along those lines. I remember old MK on console would mostly just walk towards you on easy for the first few rounds and barely even attack unless you did first. Why you'd care about the algorithms that go into boring fighting game AI I don't know but you'll probably have to do the digging yourself. As obsessive as fighter fans can be, the computer is really just there for basic practice so it's unlikely anyone has bothered dissecting it that much. It's really a 2 player genre, no one really cares about the single player.

[Anonymous No.6371704]

>>6371503
This post made me lol irl.

[Anonymous No.6371713]

Who's that character between Tsubasa and Seiya?

[Anonymous No.6371941]

>>6371634
More curiosity than anything else. The only console title I know for sure has been decompiled is Super Mario 64, and there's not much interesting about the enemy AI in that game.

I'll see what The Cutting Room Floor and the Video Game Preservation Foundation. Maybe they'll have something.

[Anonymous No.6371968]

>>6371503
>>6371704

Farm your fucking Reddit karma with le epic out-of-place "comebacks" somewhere else, faggots.

[Anonymous No.6372019]

>>6371941
I'd suggest learning to do it yourself. If any have been they would just be the few most popular. From the sounds of it you'd like to be able to compare a bunch of different games to see what varies. Someone's gotta do it though!

[Anonymous No.6372076]

>>6371440
>use a pre-determined percent chance of a CPU selectively ignoring a read input it's read
That's a big cope a lot of people had but I don't think there's any example of a game doing this. Even kaizo hacks and the like don't.

[Anonymous No.6372097]

>>6371941
But everyone is curious why YOU are curious about AI that is not only bad, but considering insignificant by everyone down to the people that make it.

It takes a lot of effort from a person who has learned about programming to do this, and the thing you are asking has no interest for people like that.

If you learned anything at all about this subject yourself and weren't just reading what other people wrote about it, you would realize how boring what you're asking actually is.

[Anonymous No.6372231]

>>6372097
It's not boring to everyone. I like reading about interesting shit pertaining to how a game was coded, including the infamous half A press video even if that guy has some serious autism. OP, I'd go looking at the source code itself instead of looking here for social media tier faggots to talk about it. There's a list of games with source code available on wikipedia, as well as a list of games that have reverse engineered engines that may prove useful (like the non-leaked pokemon games and sm64). There's also some interesting stuff out there for aspiring devs learning to program AI for games, and that content might provide some interesting examples and anecdotes. There was also an AI improvement romhack for Mario Kart 64 recently that had some interesting info about the game in the readme.

[Anonymous No.6372238]

>>6372019
Yeah, probably. Found this project on Github, mite b cool.
>https://github.com/fonic/wcdctool

>>6372076
I feel that, but there are definitely times when you're playing through the Street Fighter Alpha series or 3rd Strike when I've absolutely noticed the same tactics randomly working and the AI apparently just randomly idling.

>>6372231
My nigga. I'll check that MK project out for sure, capping your post for future reference too.

>>6372097
>He doesn't read about different families of sound cards in his spare time
>He doesn't appreciate the variety in YM-series chips, and their omnipresence across platforms as diverse as AdLib, Sega Genesis, PC-98, and MSX platforms for FM synthesis
>He doesn't appreciate the number of voices these various MIDI modules and FM synthesizers have
>He doesn't appreciate the advent of PCM, or the demands and clever workarounds developers used to implement it on limited hardware
>He doesn't know of or appreciate graphics modes. Scrolling, scaling, and skewing means nothing to him.
>Color palletes and horizontal sprite limits mean nothing to him.
>Graphics cards, chips, and APIs hold no meaning.
>Three major processors running asynchronously in harmony on the Saturn doesn't get his rocks off.
>EGA, CGA, and VGA all blend together.

Get on my fucking level, faggot. I enjoy retro computing and retro video game as a hobby beyond just playing games, and in case you haven't noticed, there are a fuckton of other people out there who love diving into these subjects.

Just because you lack any sort of fucking attention span doesn't mean others do. Calling AI research boring is almost as much of a joke as you.

[Anonymous No.6372278]

>>6372231
That Wikipedia page was such an obvious thing to search for, thank you again for mentioning it.

For anyone who may be interested:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games_with_available_source_code

I found that the source code for Mortal Kombat Trilogy on Nintendo 64 had been leaked! On /vr/, no less!

CTRL+F for "magnet" in this archive of the thread, all other links in it are dead:
>>>/vr/thread/5117527?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=5009e48d61992b0207520ae901fa67ed139ef5c0-1587876095-0-AQoQoiTGuvbRN7PpCNHpiQ32hih0KWPyjB0Ff9cJDgzCwnRLcQzfJjrGCrfBfCyWb3LPX3DBvnXJOU__FmEd4r55Z8h0Wp4miDEDgemafwD97_U6Ktk5EDWpntzl5VR8DYQGd3XW72zV0OVcTxpdsM90MKDodN4kfEHR8EyAOYXX0_dw8bFwZeot8kROVQaO9r1qG75qsUVHN57WBM2Op0ZWlu4-399_DnVhzmwr1IpPAzGA8NesNlNxbEiKyFGdelIhOj1Uz1p0S3o0b8m6tjdX911HJQmYjZHKOkm-xDzR

The torrent he links has got like 28 seeders, was fantastically quick downloading. Now it's time to make an ass out of myself trying to make heads or tails of what I'm reading.

[Anonymous No.6372462]

>>6372097
Who pissed in your pot?

[Anonymous No.6372525]

Posting entirely to let OP know he's cool and that I think this is an interesting topic too. Post your findings if you make any.

[Anonymous No.6372553]

In Yugioh Forbidden Memories the harder AI opponents near the end can just pull any card from their deck they want on their turn, bastards

[Anonymous No.6372569]

>>6371713
Ricardo Silva

[Anonymous No.6372583]

>>6372278
why not just post the magnet link?
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:311d64fe0f98fd6efba9e5c012c11f14be235457

[Anonymous No.6372705]

>>6372583
Wasn't sure if it'd get the thread or my post deleted.

>>6372553
I remember hearing about that and it'd piss me off if it weren't so easy to rush enemies (presupposing they don't have Millenium Shield or Labyrinth Wall).

>>6372525
Thanks m8. I wouldn't count on anything, but what little I may end up getting from it I'll share my notes for.

If you're interested in more general behaviors and quirks, there are a few vids on YouTube for Mortal Kombat in particular.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkEMT4RXa5E

[Anonymous No.6372735]

>>6372525
I'm checking out MKDRONE.C. You can find this in the torrent under...

>MortalKombat3SourceCodeDump/RC2/CODE/MK30709

It's 3736 lines with all the formatting. Seeing lots of instructions to fetch the difference in x coordinates between the AI (referred to as a "drone") and the player character.

Will skim and report back.

[Anonymous No.6372793]

>>6372705
>Wasn't sure if it'd get the thread or my post deleted.
honestly i didn't even bother to check what the link was for, i posted that to show that you don't need to copy the entire magnet link address for it to work
in fact, some clients (such as transmission) will accept a btih hash alone (just the "311...457" part)
the only things the rest of the link add are the name (will be retrieved from other peers) and the tracker(s) (you can use DHT to find peers instead), any healthy public torrent will work just fine with just the hash

[Anonymous No.6372819]

>>6371440
Yes fighting games were notorious for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUAgEUunsI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkEMT4RXa5E

[Anonymous No.6372927]

>>6371968
Seething

[Anonymous No.6372934]

>>6372097
If you can't be autistic about any and all aspects of retro games here then where can you? If you don't like the topic of the thread just fuck off back to the catalog

[Anonymous No.6373246]

>>6371440
Computers would read your inputs. Do moves not even players can do.

Skip inputs and directly do moves. Throws would seem out of nowhere.

There's also rubber banding where cars would teleport ahead of you.

[Anonymous No.6375012]

>>6373246
rubber banding makes sense, even with heavy rubber banding, the game still rewards consistency over just best average time
yes, you can game it by sucking at the beginning, then blowing past them at the last second, but it's no fun when you do it on purpose

[Anonymous No.6375980]

Aren't RTS's AIs infamous for cheating resources?

[Anonymous No.6376116]

>>6375980
I had this impression more in campaign scenarios. Other than that, the AI in RTS games feel like it would be simpler to design than other genres. Just define build orders, and set some micromanagement patterns for the computer player to follow, i.e, what to build/train first, min/max number of worker units, min/max number of attacking units, attack groups composition etc

[Anonymous No.6376275]

>>6372927
>mommy i learned new word from my friends on four chan slash vee!!