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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6350073 No.6350073 [Reply] [Original]

Hey, /vr/. I'm really getting into the Touhou series, and I was wondering... what's the best way to play, how do I boost my skills, etc.?

So far, I've been trying to play on the easiest difficulties with no lives, bombs, or continues, and once I'm able to beat the game a few times, I'll move up to the next difficulty level and repeat.

I tried playing with bombs, but it just got to the point where my main survival strategy was to spam bombs every time there were too many bullets on the screen, and I felt like my skills were only improving in the sense that I was learning to use bombs more efficiently, even though I could get pretty far on higher difficulties.

Hoe feasible is it for average newfag to work his way up to playing with no lives/bombs/continues? Is that an achievable goal with a few hundreds hours of gameplay, or is it out of reach of all but the most autistic?

Also, general retro bullet hell thread. I don't really like shmups in general, but I'm falling in love with bullet hell games. any other recommendations?

>> No.6350098

Obvious picks, donpachi and dodonpachi

>> No.6350110

>>6350073
*to work his way up to playing THE HIGHEST DIFFICULTIES with no lives/bombs/continues

>>6350098
Are they really any good? they are the first thing I came across when I googled the subject, but somehow I got the idea into my head that because they're the trope codifier, they wouldn't be as polished/developed/fun as later bullet hell games, and so I should skip them until I'm ready to explore the history of the genre once my bullet hell neckbeard had grown out a little.
Plus, I didn't wanna have to install MAME just for that (don't have it on this computer). but I will if they're essential and worth playing.

>> No.6350115

>>6350110
they're not the first shmups, being among the first bullet hells isn't really that primitive.

For MAME - there's a shmupmame build somewhere on chans that has like hundreds of shmups, so you might as well install it.

>> No.6350137

>Is that an achievable goal with a few hundreds hours of gameplay
Game dependent. This is very achievable in easier ones like, say, Espgaluda (where it gives you extremely big score gains) while being damn near impossible in harder ones like Dodonpachi Daioujou since even the top players with thousands of hours put into the game can't do it. Generally speaking a few hundred hours is more than enough for a NMNB, you just have to avoid particularly brutal games.

>>6350110
STOP RIGHT THERE YOU FAG
Look at your screenshot, then look at Dodonpachi Daioujou and ask yourself which game LOOKS more primitive. This carries over to the mechanics, arcade games are much more polished with better stage/boss design, better mechanics and are just all around more fun. Not to mention they don't dump resources on you nearly as much as home/PC releases do with some exceptions like the original Dodonpachi. Touhou is particularly known for balancing its difficulty by dishing out extra bombs and lives like candy.

>> No.6350175
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6350175

>>6350073
>what's the best way to play, how do I boost my skills, etc.?

Mark's Guides:
How to Shmup Vol. 1: Thinking in 3 Dimensions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AA8GRDalc


How To Shmup Vol II, Boss Fights Like a Boss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS-gl9RNSzE

Aquas' Tips:
STG Weekly #69: How to Practice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWv_tMZ4Vjc


Prometheus' Shmup Bible: The Full Extent of the Jam
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=34497

>> No.6350184

>>6350073
I'd recommend Espgaluda it's not too hard and has a similar touhou feel.

>>6350110
>but somehow I got the idea into my head that because they're the trope codifier, they wouldn't be as

"Dodonpachi came out in arcades in 1997 and is the second game developed by Cave. Dodonpachi is the game that popularized the bullet hell shmup genre and is a very important game historically. Even though it was Cave's first attempt at a true bullet hell, they really did a very good job. The game is excellent." - Jaimers

Dodonpachi is top 3 shmup for many serious players. It's proven to be a timeless classic.

>> No.6350204

if you like touhou, you'd like the exceed series (specifically 2/3). 2 is basically a doujin ikaruga with more reactionary gameplay, and 3 is a straight touhou-like. both have fantastic music and are available for cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ8mYtZtGnQ

>> No.6350345

>>6350175
thank you anon!

>> No.6350642

>>6350345
no problem

>> No.6350758

>general
>>>/vg/

And take the Doom thread with you.

>> No.6352821

>>6350175
Nice, I'll check these out.

>> No.6352986

>>6350758
what a strange post

>> No.6354062
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6354062

stoic shmups > danmakrap

>> No.6354121

DingDongwatchi?

>> No.6354667

>>6354062
>Gradius
Stoic, until you lose all your power-ups and sanity along with them.

>> No.6355184
File: 25 KB, 400x400, gaydius.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6355184

>stoic shmups
>gradius
>dingdongwatchi

>> No.6355221

I want to into shmups but it seems to play them well you have to be a copy monkey

>> No.6355227

>>6355221
Anything that takes technical skill requires mimicking and copying.

>> No.6355234

>>6355227
But you're barely playing a game if you're just copying what someone else did

>> No.6355236

>>6355221
don't need it for touhou, that's what makes it better than other shmups.

>> No.6355249

I've dabbled in a bunch of games but can't decide what to take seriously between
>ESPGaluda 1 and or 2
>Dangun Feveron
>Soukyugurentai
>Blazing Star
>Dodonpachi and Daioujou
>Garegga, although I'm iffy on its weird systems

>> No.6355265

>>6355236
Good luck getting decent scores in those shitpiles without learning from better players

>> No.6355272

>>6355234
It dont work like that. You can try, sit down with a game and try to copy some high level routes without already being good at it, you wont get anywhere. Also I do hope youre talking about very high level scoring cause otherwise youre just making excuses since non competitive play doesnt require copying

>> No.6355274

>>6355234
Copying diminishes creativity not playability. You are still playing the game 100%; but if you copy 50% of a route it means your creativity is dimished by half.

A racecar driver might be given a pre-determined path by his coach, but he's still racing, driving, adapting and performing 100% of the activity.

If you want credit for creativity then copy less.

>> No.6355718

What are the best M2 games?

>> No.6355726

>>6355249
blazing star will take the least time if you're just going for survival. if you're going for boners it'll still be the least complex.

>> No.6355756

Is there an updated version of shmupmame with more games?

>> No.6355914

>>6350073
I'll tell you how to practice: you get savestates and build muscle memory for sections that require it. No savestates? Enjoy wasting 20 minutes of your time to get a single shot at figuring out the pattern. This actually makes the harder games flat out impossible to master. So, rule number 1: don't waste your time if the game is too shit to have the right practice tools. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise, they are either suffering from stockholm syndrome of having to play the game for 5 years with slow progress or are flat out malicious.

Don't play shmups though, it's a worthless and dead genre, and most people have moved on to speedrunning or fighting games where communities/developers emphasize structured practice and mastering frame based strategies. Shmups are a just something to stroke your epeen with; pick up a dadshit shmup and show off your reaction time/pattern recognition. Totally not recommended for playing blind as a learner who wants to get good.

>> No.6355936

>>6355914
What would you recommend for a skill based genre that's either 1v1 or single player that isn't fighters then?

>> No.6355937

>>6355936
Fangames. They usually contain bullet hell sections to train your peripheral vision if that's what you're into. Also, fangame makers are autistic enough to design with frame based tricks in mind, so things will generally be balanced, and they're easy to get into because all you need is a mechanical keyboard (correct controller is a big part of getting good at skill-based genres).

>> No.6355941

>>6355914
>savestates
just play games that have stage select. most good ports have them. if not, just replay. most shmups are roughly 30 minutes long, and it never hurts to get more practice with the earlier stages.

>> No.6355947

>>6355941
>stage select
Pfft, okay, kid. Already tried that in Mushi on harder difficulties. You NEED savestates not to waste your time. Simple as that. If you're playing something that's easy enough for stage select, you won't be getting good anyway.

>> No.6355958

how much save state practice were the jap dudes doing in the 90s and early 2000s at the arcades?
and they are still having fun decades later...

Americans and French go full-autist for a couple years and burn out and give up the genre entirely, then start talking shit on it.

>> No.6355967

>>6355947
Why would you want to have an equal level of experience on every level in the game though? You're best off learning the early levels more so you can flawlessly clear them every time. If you know the end sections as much as the early game you have a chance of ending your run way earlier instead of almost guaranteeing being able to make it to that section that gives you trouble. It's how the game was supposed to be played. Just play an hour a day, a few attempts, then sleep on it and your brain sorts that shit out by morning.

>> No.6355989

>>6355958
>how much save state practice were the jap dudes
Insects that grinded shmups at arcades had knowledge that carried over, fucktard. Exact opposite of a healthy skill acquisition in any given game from a genre you DON'T main like a grindmonkey insect.
>Americans and French go full-autist for a couple years and burn out and give up the genre entirely, then start talking shit on it.
Nice projection there.
>>6355967
>Why would you [practice efficiently]
Stopped reading there, shit for brains. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.6356002

>>6355989
cheating != practicing efficiently
you haven't legitimately earned your 1CC if you use save states, it's not the way the game was designed to be played

>> No.6356006

>>6356002
Here we go again. This is what I meant in my previous posts. Malicious morons or just too stupid to breathe. I'm out, but if you know what's good for you OP you won't take advice from /vr/ schmup schizos who are absolutely braindead fucktards.

>> No.6356013

>>6355989
>Insects that grinded shmups at arcades had knowledge that carried over, fucktard. Exact opposite of a healthy skill acquisition in any given game from a genre you DON'T main like a grindmonkey insect.

Gibberish.
Guys like you are mad at Japs and anyone who doesn't obey cookie cutter American way of playing!

>> No.6356015

>>6356013
>cookie cutter american way of playing
the fuck does this mean

>> No.6356041

>>6356015
WHITTU PIGGU GO HOME

>> No.6356148

WHY AM I GOOD AT HORIZONTAL BUT SHIT AT VERTICAL? WHY IS MY BRAIN LIKE THIS!?

>> No.6356149

>>6356148
just tilt your head bro

>> No.6356193

>>6355937
The fuck does that even mean? What fangames, you mean I wanna be the guy style bottom of the barrel trash?

>> No.6356210

>>6355967
>You're best off learning the early levels more so you can flawlessly clear them every time.
That's what inevitably happens as you do runs however early levels are usually low risk because at worst you just lose a few minutes and can easily restart, and often low reward because most games give the most points in the later levels. And you really don't want a great run going to waste if you make it far into a game

>> No.6356224

>>6355941
Why? Savestates are just stage select but more flexible. There's no reason what so ever to avoid them unless you intentionally want to make practice less convenient for yourself.

>> No.6356292

>>6356149
Oh shit that fixed it thx

>> No.6356297

>>6356148
In all seriousness, I play horizonal control tate mode without turning my tv because I can't into vertical.

>> No.6356310

>>6356193
>he doesn't know about doujins
oh you sweet sweet childrens

>> No.6356324

>>6356310
So instead of shmups you should play Cho Ren Sha and Crimzon Clover? Which doujins nigga, they aren't all fangames

>> No.6356350

>>6356324
I dunno , I don't play that trash. Only dingdongsnatchi

>> No.6356365

>>6356210
I don't know how most people do it, but usually I'll learn to score in the early levels alongside learning to survive specific sections of later levels. That way by the time I get a 1CC my score is already on the way to being acceptable and I don't need to then relearn the game from scratch from a scoring perspective.

>> No.6356420

Is MAME good for shmups?

>> No.6356441

>>6356420
Get shmupmame. It's more optimized.

>> No.6356445

>>6356441
Is there a version with newer games though?

>> No.6356482

>>6356420
Yes
>>6356441
Low latency mode makes shmupmame obsolete for the most part

>> No.6356486

shmupmame is great for many shmups.
for newer ones try shmuparch, as Mark advises.

>> No.6356497

>>6356486
No, shmuparch uses FB Neo which doesn't support most newer games. Standard MAME with lag reduction or GroovyMAME are how you play those games

>> No.6356512

>>6356486
thanks

>> No.6356908

>>6350110
>Are they really any good?
No, caveniggers are subhuman

>> No.6356964

>>6356908
yes all the big boys play cave
so it's intimidating

>> No.6357797

best memorizers? playing pulstar at the moment and I want more. I can only think of pulstar and irem shmups like r type/x multiply

>> No.6357951

>>6357797
Metal Black?
Xexex?

>> No.6357995

>>6356224
Touhou 15 pointdevice is the perfect example that savestates don't help you get better, just make the game more bearable

>> No.6357996

Favorite SHMUP OSTs?

>> No.6358008

>>6357996
eXceed 2
viewpoint
x multiply
cho ren sha

Quality of the games might be quite as consistent (only game of the four I really love is X Multiply), but the music is great.

>> No.6358012

>>6357996
Gradius V has the GOAT ost. Then Soldier Blade, then U.N. Squadron.

>> No.6358018

>>6358008
*might not be

>> No.6358023

>>6357995
Savestates do help you get better by letting you experiment punishment free. Nothing can make poohou more bearable desu

>> No.6358036

>>6358023
why would you want to play a game punishment free? the whole point of a 1CC is overcoming a challenge through hard work. skipping the fail state is less rewarding

>> No.6358042

I don't really get ESPGaluda 2
So I'm supposed to switch to purple bullet mode and get a massive score multiplier by destroying enemies that shit out bullets, but there's a cost for de-activating the mode
So am I supposed to be in purple bullet mode for most of the stage? It then turns to red bullet mode which I don't see the use of

>> No.6358051

>>6358036
Plenty of fail states when you're doing real runs. There's no point to having them while practicing/testing things out, not like there's a win state there either, you just try things and see what works, then keep them for the real deal.

>> No.6358063

>>6358042
Not sure about 2 but in 1 you want to enter Kakusei at certain points with the most enemies/bullets to build longer cancel combos and make the most of it, instead of constantly activating/deactivating it. Point blanking enemies gives more gems. When youre in red bullets mode you constantly get points so you can get some extra that way but it's generally undesirable, staying in it is far less profitable than using pink bullets kakusei well

>> No.6358070

>>6358042
>>6358063
I should clarify that 2 borrows most of those basic mechanics, but it introduces another mode that you get by holding down the kakusei button instead of tapping it which complicates things a lot

>> No.6359284

What's the design decision behind putting that energy timer in Outzone?

>> No.6359287

>>6358036
>Have to play for twenty minutes to get to boss who gives you trouble
>Die at boss
>Play for another twenty minutes just to reach your practice area

Gay

>> No.6359540

>>6359284
So you don't stay on the machine all day milking every checkpoint with respawning enemies