The Plutonia Experiment

[Anonymous No.6327908]

FUCK THIS SHIT

I've played the shit out of Doom 1 and 2. Love em. Had Final Doom when it came out, but i was young and couldn't beat them without codes. Now I've tried playing it in the past decade beating them in Ultra-Violence.

I loved TNT Evilution. It felt like a natural progression of Doom 2. Bigger, harder, but had the same theme to it and the levels look like they could have been made by the original team. I thought it was a lot of fun, hard and pretty fair. You could get through the levels without knowing what is coming up and be fine if you're good and careful. Could never beat the end boss though..Then I tried playing Plutonia on Ultra Violence.

Wow. Not only are the levels a brown muddled mess, it's nothing but a bunch of gotcha traps so far. I'm now on stage 13, the Crypt. It was hard as fuck, and every stage you have to know where the gotcha moments are or you're dead. I was doing pretty good not cheating by saving during levels, but I gave that up with Hunted. Saved after every Arch-vile I killed.

So yeah. I don't see why so many people like Plutonia over TNT. Sure it's a hell of a lot harder, but not in a fun way. TNT was hard because the levels were fun, tricky and mazelike with puzzles and then there were just a ton of enemies. Plutonia is nothing but Arch-Viles popping up behind you all the time, or Chaingunner traps all around you. It's getting tiring after the 3rd stage. Does it ever get better?

[Anonymous No.6327913]

>>6327908
And on top of that, TNT Evilution has that dope soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wTfAp1JUdI

[Anonymous No.6327982]

>>6327913
word

[Anonymous No.6327994]

>>6327908
>muh brown
Get color-filtered, fag.

[Anonymous No.6327995]

>>6327908
Surprised it took you that long. I got up to like level 3 before deciding me and the game weren't going to get along.

[Anonymous No.6328013]

>>6327995
I died so many times. After I memorized the level it wasn't as bad, but you couldn't mess up one bit or you have to start over. Get tiring.

[Anonymous No.6328021]

>>6327908
I find Plutonia really fun. TNT is boring.

[Anonymous No.6328137]

>>6328021
how so?

[Anonymous No.6328138]

>>6327908
Wrong on all points.

[Anonymous No.6328153]

>>6328138

Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.6328252]

You just have bad taste. We don't have to prove you anything.

[Anonymous No.6328254]

>>6328137
TNT has some good maps, but it also has some that long overstay their welcome. And most of them felt no harder than Doom 2 itself, which is already pretty easy, so it just makes for an uninteresting experience for me.
Plutonia was a welcome change of pace, on the other hand.

[Anonymous No.6328263]

>>6327908
So you got frustrated because Plutonia is too difficult and you hate it because you're not good enough. Nothing new. I've seen the same story hundreds of times in 4chan and Doomworld. I used to hate it when I was new to Doom, too. Plutonia is a noob destroyer.
How I know you're new to Doom?

>"TNT was hard"

[Anonymous No.6328367]

>>6327908
What's your favourite TNT map? Also agreed fuck Plutonia and fuck the Casali faggot brothers.

[Anonymous No.6328386]

>>6328153
I'm not obliged to argue with you. Noting your wrongness is sufficient for me.

There are no so-called 'gotcha' traps that you should not be able to predict. And if you can't deal with them, maybe your skill level is not high enough.
Archvile behind you and chaingunners around you are basic Doom II features. If you get 'gotcha'ed by them more than once then you should not be playing.

[Anonymous No.6328402]

>>6327908
>I'm not good enough to play on the big boy levels
>it's the levels' fault for being too hard!

[Anonymous No.6328436]

>>6328386
Not to mention Hunted is pretty fucking lenient when it comes to arch-vile traps. No resurrection fodder and easily broken sight lines.

[Anonymous No.6328452]

Go back to your containment general.

[Anonymous No.6328473]

>>6327908
It was made to be hard. If you can't handle it, play on a setting easier than Ultra-Violence. It's amazingly crafted dickishness.

[Anonymous No.6328503]

It's meant to be super hard and unfair - whether you think that's "bad design" or not is wholly subjective. If you're not having fun then just don't play it mang.

[Anonymous No.6328758]

>>6327908
>it's nothing but a bunch of gotcha traps so far
this isn't even true, there are some really evil traps but mostly it's standard stuff, just with more monsters and more clever spawn locations. Not to mention, TNT has plenty of gotcha traps and unpredictable design too.
If the game is too hard for you, don't play on UV. I'm not even saying that to talk shit, I genuinely don't get why you'd play on a difficulty you can't handle, which is clear when 1 archvile engagements drive you to savescumming.

I can't fucking stand TNT. I've been trying to replay through it and I feel fucking exhausted around map20. The constant chaingunner sniping, the mazes designed to make you run around in circles until you find the right thing to press/shoot and very boring encounters with no thought put into them
It has some great levels but you could easily cut half of the wad and nothing of value would be lost. The best thing about it is the soundtrack easily

[Anonymous No.6328847]

>>6327908
I remember in the main Doom thread here on /vg/ a while back someone flaunted about how they beat Plutonia on UV with Pistol Start and No Mid-Level Saving. I thought this was pretty nuts so I decided to do it myself for fun.

Plutonia was a blast to play through and it felt really good when I finally beat a certain map. I would say that the hardest maps in my challenge playthrough were MAP07: Caughtyard & MAP27: Anti-Christ.

[Anonymous No.6329125]

Plutonia is Le archvile meme iwad
Has more archies than zombiemen

[Anonymous No.6329194]

>>6327908
If Plutonia is too hard for you on Ultra-Violence, you should play it on Hurt Me Plenty.

Doom 1 and Doom 2 are not very hard on Ultra-Violence, which gives some people the mistaken impression that this is as hard as Doom is ever meant to be, but this reasoning is flawed, Plutonia is explicitly designed to be a serious step up in challenge to the original game, for the exact reason that the base game is easy, but even so it still has properly implemented difficulty levels, even for Hey, Not Too Rough.

You shouldn't feel ashamed about lowering the difficulty level, it exists for a reason.

>>6327913
TNT has a sick soundtrack, agree. If you want new tunes for Plutonia, there is the Plutonia Music Pack.

>>6328254
I'm huge TNT apologist, but you're correct in that there's some maps which are too long, a few are even just really bad, and Plutonia is overall much more consistent in comparison, you don't have the same dipping trend in level quality towards the last third.

[Anonymous No.6329218]

>>6328436
Hunted isn't even really hard, the entire map is a labyrinth, thus full of corners, so you have a million opportunities to play Peekaboo with the super shotgun.
The only increase in stakes is when you're dealing with two Viles at once, but usually they're crowding the same corner, so it's just a matter of him waiting his turn to get his repeated two scoops of lead shot, because the paths are 9 times out of 10 too narrow to let more than one through.

Still, I love the gimmick of Hunted.

>>6328452
Bitch.

>>6328503
It's not even unfair.

[Anonymous No.6329252]

>>6328452
>containment general
You mean one of the few places where actual civil discussion takes place in this shithole of a website?

[Anonymous No.6329269]

>>6328263
>How I know you're new to Doom?
>"TNT was hard"
And you apparently don't know that fast monsters is a thing, because TNT is just as difficult as Plutonia if you activate it.

[Anonymous No.6329386]

>>6329269
OP didn't say anything about fast monsters you dickwit.

[Anonymous No.6329460]

>>6328367
I really like the Administration Center, that one cargo area level, and the odd shaped star base level thats in the middle of the map. too many to name actually

[Anonymous No.6329464]

>>6328758
>saving after killing a miniboss
>savescumming
Would be different if OP was F6/F9'ing because he lost a fraction of HP though.

[Anonymous No.6329496]

>>6329460
>Administration Center and Storage Facility
Patrician taste.

[Anonymous No.6329543]

>>6329496

I actually meant Shipping/Respawning instead of Storage Facility, but I do like that too.

Looking at some of the maps in doomwiki to job my memory I also really like...

>Wormhole
>Hangar
>Open Season
>Prison
>Crater
>Nukage Processing
>Steel Works
>Dead Zone

Hell too many to count. I remember Pharaoh being maybe the best puzzle map in Doom. Great level.

[Anonymous No.6329893]

Dario's Doomworld interview says it all. Swallow your pride.

[Anonymous No.6329947]

>You could get through the levels without knowing what is coming up and be fine if you're good and careful.
This leads to a lower bar for encounter design. There's only so much that can be done before something becomes too complicated for a player to fully process and solve on the first bounce. Once you open the door to allowing the player to get overwhelmed on their first try, more interestingly intricate setups can be done because the player won't be expected to figure it all out in one go.

MAP07 is a good example: the start is such a clusterfuck because you're instantly under fire from a floor full of mancubuses, a chaingunner overlooking you, and enemies shooting from the ramparts. I am certain nobody survived that their first time or even first few times, but it's also an outstandingly tense and exciting game of quickly reacting and dealing with immediate threats while trying to take whatever limited cover you can. The map is called "Caughtyard" for a reason - you're caught and have your back to the wall with the only way out being through, and it's become an iconic map because of its elegant intensity.

Just think about it like an arcade game. You won't beat it perfectly your first time, but the more you learn it, the deeper the game becomes.

[Anonymous No.6329952]

>>6329947
>This leads to a lower bar for encounter design. There's only so much that can be done before something becomes too complicated for a player to fully process and solve on the first bounce. Once you open the door to allowing the player to get overwhelmed on their first try, more interestingly intricate setups can be done because the player won't be expected to figure it all out in one go.

Yeah I agree, it's just not how I like to play Doom. I liked how I could play through all of Doom 1 and 2 carefully, and pretty much make it through without dying. That's impossible for Plutonia on the Ultra Violence difficulty. So that's my complaint. I appreciate the new difficulty, but I still like TNT's flow better.

[Anonymous No.6329958]

>>6329947
>MAP07 is a good example: the start is such a clusterfuck because you're instantly under fire from a floor full of mancubuses, a chaingunner overlooking you, and enemies shooting from the ramparts. I am certain nobody survived that their first time or even first few times, but it's also an outstandingly tense and exciting game of quickly reacting and dealing with immediate threats while trying to take whatever limited cover you can. The map is called "Caughtyard" for a reason - you're caught and have your back to the wall with the only way out being through, and it's become an iconic map because of its elegant intensity.
>Just think about it like an arcade game. You won't beat it perfectly your first time, but the more you learn it, the deeper the game becomes.

Yeah. That was one of the better levels I beat so far. Took me over an hour to finally beat it in one go. You're right, it's like an arcade where you play it over and over again until you beat it, which i'm not used to in Doom games to this point. Thankfully the level and the gameplay is so good redoing it a bunch is still fun.

[Anonymous No.6330094]

>>6329952
>I liked how I could play through all of Doom 1 and 2 carefully, and pretty much make it through without dying. That's impossible for Plutonia on the Ultra Violence difficulty.
I honestly really love how Plutonia forces you to run and gun like it's Contra except you can't jump. It puts hair on your chest.

[Anonymous No.6330186]

>>6327908
Git gud.

[Anonymous No.6330881]

>>6327908
how the fuck are there people in 2020 who think plutonia is too hard? have you not played fanmade megawad ever? they're all harder and bigger than plutonia, including plutonia 2 and plutonia revisited.

and how the hell can you love doom 2 when 2/3rds of its levels are boring rushed schlock?

[Anonymous No.6331464]

>>6330881
>when 2/3rds of its levels are boring rushed schlock?
That's simply not correct. Also Plutonia is heavily based on original Doom and Doom 2 maps.

[Anonymous No.6331598]

How can a Doom game be hard when you save anytime you want, unless you play no saves with Pistol start.

I did Plutonia UV with pistol start every map. You get used to it.

[Anonymous No.6331808]

>>6331598
Of course saves make it easy if you abuse them, that goes for nearly any game that lets you save.

[Anonymous No.6332027]

>>6329252
4chan started as a forum where fun is allowed, not to have """"""""civil discussion""""""", maybe you should go back to Doomworld where you belong, you back seat moderating virtue signaling faggot.

[Anonymous No.6332170]

>>6332027
>fun is allowed
too bad most of the fun is buried under mounds of shitposting, wich is what this webside has devolved into since the first time you reddit types stumbled here, kys.

[Anonymous No.6332192]

>>6328452
They need their own board already. It's getting so absurdly obnoxious.

[Anonymous No.6332196]

>>6332170
Oh the projection of the dumbworlder nigger, always complaining about a little shitposting as opposed to constant spam and CP posting of the old days (spam is still present however). No matter how much you screech, I am not going to suck your cock, period. Maybe Doomworld would.

[Anonymous No.6332198]

>>6332170
>gets called a backseat moderating virtue signaling faggot
>replies like a backseat moderating virtue signaling faggot

[Anonymous No.6332993]

>walk into a room
>wall opens up revealing 4 chaingunners 2 cacodemons and a revenant
>wall behind you opens up revealing 2 chaingunners and a baron
>archvile teleports in right on top of you
the plutonia experience

[Anonymous No.6333045]

>>6329269
Plutonia would still be a lot harder than TNT if it also has fast monsters enabled.

[Anonymous No.6333057]

Plutonia was designed from the ground up for Expert players who mastered Doom 2 on UV to the point of no longer finding it challenging anymore and want something much harder.

[Anonymous No.6333076]

>>6327908
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMcb1Bmbv_8

[Anonymous No.6333079]

>>6327908
I don't mind the difficulty, but I'm not really a fan of the "brown basement" level themes.
"Onslaught", "Neurosphere", "Tombstone" etc. The levels are very very conceptual, rather than being more specific Base, Shipping Depot etc found in Evilution. I can't really place the theme here or there. There's literally a level called Bunker. Kinda takes me out of it.

[Anonymous No.6333158]

>>6332993
>Take out chaingunners.
>Cacodemons: trivial.
>Baron: trivial.
>Avoid revenant rockets.
>Shoot arch vile.

Normals cannot solve even the most basic doom problems.

[Anonymous No.6333186]

invisible bridges are indefensible map design

[Anonymous No.6333220]

>>6333186
Why do people get so triggered by Plutonia map02's bridge? Is it the Carnival Night Barrel of Doom?

[Anonymous No.6333221]

>>6333220
you have no reason to believe its there
literally a leap of faith

[Anonymous No.6333289]

>>6327908
I hate to be condescending anon, but honestly just turn the difficulty down. I haven't gotten to Plutonia yet, frankly it intimidates me, but if you are going to complain about it being a hellish nightmare of difficulty while playing on UV, then as Dario, the creator of Plutonia pointed out, you shouldn't really complain.

While I'm here, how do Master Levels of Doom 2 come up in terms of difficulty when compared to TNT and Plutonia?

[Anonymous No.6333314]

>>6333289
>Master Levels of Doom 2
A lot of the levels start off with you being shot in the face so its about the same as plutonia

[Anonymous No.6333323]

>>6333221
>what are those lines of torches for?

[Anonymous No.6333356]

>>6333221
>very obvious computer terminal in an otherwise rocky canon
>shoot it
>pillars rise to signify a bridge

[Anonymous No.6333440]

How the hell do I trouble shoot this shit?

I started this wad with Doombuilder ages ago and can't remember how i had it set up.

[Anonymous No.6333454]

>>6333440
Could be that your file paths are outdated.

[Anonymous No.6333456]

> I was doing pretty good not cheating by saving during levels,

Fuck. Saving mid level is considered cheating?

[Anonymous No.6333560]

>>6333456
Not in the slightest. It's just another level of self imposed challenge you can add on top of pistol start, fast monsters or nightmare.

[Anonymous No.6333563]

>>6333221
then how did everyone find it, including myself?

[Anonymous No.6333597]

>>6333356
>canon
fuck, meant canyon

[Anonymous No.6333678]

>>6333456
The manual says to save often. I enjoy the arcade-like tension of having to get everything right in one go so I choose not to, but there's nothing wrong with saving if you find that way too tedious. I basically run a level like a 1cc where I'll save if I'm going through a level the first time, and then go for a no save after.

[Anonymous No.6333768]

>>6333456
mid level saving is fine if you limit yourself to 1-2 per level, IMO.

[Anonymous No.6333971]

>>6329464
>one (1) archvile
>miniboss
ok

[Anonymous No.6334198]

>>6333220
I like to think of the invisible bridge as a test to see if the player actually knows about the mechanics of doom

If their first thought is "wtf do I do?", then they''re probably not ready for Plutonia.

[Anonymous No.6334647]

>>6333560
>>6333678
>>6333768

Ok good, I want to play it right but there's no way im redoing plutonia levels from the start everytime i die, fuck that

[Anonymous No.6334664]

>>6333440
>>6333454
How do I fix that?

[Anonymous No.6334679]

>>6334664
Set up new file paths in the options menu.

[Anonymous No.6334719]

>>6334679
Is there a way to see what resources a WAD requires?

[Anonymous No.6335056]

>>6332192
This is our board, we own you, faggot.

>>6333220
The invisible bridge in Well Of Souls isn't particularly well telegraphed, but you're stuck on that ledge and you would obviously have no other option but to ponder if there's any way to get past the chasm, so logic dictates that you would probably shoot that computer terminal in that window to see if something happens.

It should probably have been textured as a switch instead of as a normal texture, to make it more obvious, but even so you would have to be some kind of absolute idiot to be completely stumped by that part and unable to progress.

>>6333221
>you have no reason to believe its there
At first glance, maybe, but you'd think you would try different things to see if something happens, shootable switches aren't new to Final Doom.

[Anonymous No.6335061]

>>6334719
Yeah, reading the included readme.

>>6333289
Master Levels are really boring, they offer some challenge, but aren't really fun to play.

>>6333323
That's another level.

[Anonymous No.6335064]

>>6333456
Only if you abuse it.

[Anonymous No.6335228]

>walk into a room
>six chaingunners and an spider mastermind teleport in all around you
how do you not instantly get turned into swiss cheese

[Anonymous No.6335252]

>>6335228
I don't recall any teleport traps with spiderminds.

[Anonymous No.6335265]

>>6334198
I beat Plutonia UV pistol start saveless, and I didn't know what the fuck to do at the bridge. I straight no clipped past it first thinking it was a bug, then looked at the doomwiki and saw what was up, said "Jesus Christ," and beat the map again normally.

[Anonymous No.6335275]

>>6335252
just ran into one in map 05

[Anonymous No.6335287]

>>6335275
Oooh, right, that one. Squeeze between one of the pillars for a second of breathing and to break the line of sight of a bunch of the chaingunners I guess, then make your next move.

[Anonymous No.6335292]

>>6335287
it wasnt that hard after i realized i could just run out of the room and slowly peak out and fire rockets and plasma in there until everything was dead

[Anonymous No.6335313]

OP here. I'm now at Odyssey of Noises. The difficulty took a huge dip after The Omen. Less BS traps, and way more ammo and health, more open spaces. Needless to say I like these levels more because they are more interesting to explore. The difficulty peaked in the last few stages, but The Sewers might be the most laughable level I've encountered so far. Didn't die once. So much ammo and health. There were a few tense moments with lots of enemies, but when you have 600 ammo for the plasma rifle, and a few 100 packs left in the level it make it pretty easy.

Now I remember that I did beat TNT on UV, but it was Plutonia where I couldn't beat the last level on UV. I tried so many times and gave up. We will see how I do this time.

[Anonymous No.6335412]

>>6335265
I really don't understand how its missable, unless you completely blanked on the fact that shootable switches are a thing. Even if a literal switch texture wasn't used, the out of place computer terminal behind a window should've still been a clue.

[Anonymous No.6335415]

>>6335313
Sewers always felt like a TNT reject, to me.

[Anonymous No.6335419]

>>6335415

Yeah. I really like the layout of it, but it's just too easy besides the parts that throw a bunch of enemies at you at once.

[Anonymous No.6335428]

>>6335292
Taking cover is actually a pretty valid strategy in classic Doom, I think a lot of people get the wrong picture in their head when hearing "taking cover", and imagine less interesting modern shooters where you press a button and your player character gets suctioned onto a piece of wall or a crate, and are in a "taking cover mode", and classic shooters like Doom aren't about boring mechanics like that, so they think they shouldn't ever do it.
For Doom, the use of cover kind of just means briefly putting some level geometry between you and a lot of incoming hurt, and occasionally a repeated dance of stepping in and out of cover putting out shots (the slow fire rate of the shots can be timed efficiently for this maneuver).

Plutonia won't always let you do stuff like that comfortably though (which is part of the challenge), so don't get too reliant on it, you'll still need a lot of mobility.

>>6335313
I'm glad that you actually persevered and pushed through.

>>6335415
A lot of people think it's one of the weaker maps. Dario and Milo worked themselves to the bone making Plutonia in four months, non-stop building, testing, and rebuilding. The quality probably suffered a little bit here and there, but overall I think they did an excellent job.

[Anonymous No.6335454]

>>6335412
Computer terminals always register as decoration to me unless it looks like the mapper put in effort to have it look like a usable computer, in which case I press use on it because it's probably hiding a secret. I would never piece together terminal texture as a shootable switch, and the raised posts with nothing else made me think there is another part of the puzzle that makes the bridge itself raise.

[Anonymous No.6335526]

>>6335428
>I'm glad that you actually persevered and pushed through.

Thanks. And I actually beat the last map in a few tries. Only 2 hits to kill the last boss? The Cyberdemon was a chump. I just ran to the side where there is a path down to the lava and just spammed the BFG.

[Anonymous No.6335535]

For Plutonia, the difficulty Hurt Me Plenty is hard enough that it's still fun without giving me gray hairs. This is just me coming from beating DOOMs I, II, and TNT on that setting, and Wolf3D and SoD before that.

The gotcha!s are more stressful than annoying, but that's fine. Once I can beat this fucker I will return to the original on Ultra Violence. Part of what makes these so much fun is that they can be played anyway you want.

[Anonymous No.6335567]

OP here. So since I've beaten all of Doom 1, Doom 2 and now Final Doom on Ultra Violence, and rated each episode, what do you guys think of Doom 2 Master Levels, and No Rest of the Living? They are both up to play now on my Doom Classic Complete that I've been playing.

Rankings...

Doom
>Knee-Deep in the Dead
5.7

>The Shores of Hell
6.3

>Inferno
8.1

>They Flesh Consumed
6.7

Doom II
7.2

Final Doom
>TNT Evolution
8.2

>Plutonia Experiment
6.7

[Anonymous No.6335685]

>>6335567
No Rest of the Living is alright, some fairly memorable maps. Master Levels are very meh.

[Anonymous No.6335698]

>>6335567
It was so long ago since I played No Rest For The Living that I don't remember what it was like, but a lot of people seem to hold it in very high regard.

[Anonymous No.6335734]

>>6335567
I'm surprised you liked KDITD the least. It's often the favourite for most people.

[Anonymous No.6337285]

Has anyone completed Get 2 It on UV? It's the only level in Plutonia that I haven't beat on UV.

I watched Big Mac Davis playthrough it and it seemed insane even if I did save throughout it. Is there multiple ways to beat it or is there really only one way to go through it?

[Anonymous No.6337484]

>>6332027
imageboard, mom. It's an imageboard.

[Anonymous No.6338234]

>>6337285

And I just beat it. Was hard, and I did use safe states, a lot, but wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Still had lots of ammo and megaspheres left over.

[Anonymous No.6338626]

>>6327908

[Anonymous No.6338670]

>>6337285
Easily. Although I did spam save.
>tons of monsters
>also
>tons of weapons and health
It really just cancels out the perceived difficulty

[Anonymous No.6338703]

>>6337285
I've beaten all of Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Master Levels, TNT, and Plutonia on UV without using saves in the levels.

[Anonymous No.6339001]

>>6327908
git gud

[Anonymous No.6339205]

>>6339001
He did eventually, see: >>6335313

[Anonymous No.6339378]

>>6337484
every imageboard is a forum.

[Anonymous No.6339380]

>>6339378
Only in the broadest sense of the term, not in the traditional internet forum sense.
I mean, I guess you could buy a pass, make an account and wield a tripcode... if you were a total faggot fuckup.

[Anonymous No.6339391]

>>6339380
>Only in the broadest sense of the term
glad you agree with me.
every imageboard is a forum.

[Anonymous No.6339457]

>>6328452
>>6332192
moot created /vr/ so people wouldn't have to browse /v/ to talk about Doom. THIS IS THE DOOM BOARD NEWFAGS MCFUCKINDEALWITHIT!

[Anonymous No.6339479]

>>6327908
git gud

[Anonymous No.6339486]

>>6339457
Source: your ass.

[Anonymous No.6339491]

>>6339486
This isn't wikipedia bitch gtfo my board before I rape your tight butthole like the chaingunner rapes ur mom every night motherfucking fuckhead/.

[Anonymous No.6339658]

>>6339491
this isn't a mental asylum for schizophrenics either, it is all in your head anon; take your meds.

[Anonymous No.6340263]

>>6335567
Those are some weirdly specific numbers. What makes Knee Deep a 5.7 instead of a 5.6 or 5.8?

Knee Deep is obviously a classic, but it's really hard for me to look at it objectively now because it's just so easy. I always get bored at Shores, and I respect the weirdness of Inferno. Thy Flesh has my absolute favorite map of Doom 1, E4M2, and M1, M6, and M9 are cool too. It's the only episode that really stands out to me with truly memorable maps, so that's always going to be my favorite.

I can't remember the last time I actually beat Doom 2, and I basically never feel a desire to replay it. I've never gotten far in TNT and I've never played any of the Master Levels, so I guess it's not fair for me to talk shit. No Rest is surprisingly good and actually manages to make the cyberdemon a meaningful boss again. Plutonia is far and away the best of the best.

[Anonymous No.6340296]

>>6340263
>Thy Flesh has my absolute favorite map of Doom 1, E4M2, and M1, M6, and M9
Seems someone likes John Romero.

[Anonymous No.6340324]

>>6340263
>Those are some weirdly specific numbers. What makes Knee Deep a 5.7 instead of a 5.6 or 5.8?

I decided to rate all the doom maps when I got this Classic Doom Complete. I rated them each 1-5 on difficulty and 1-5 on my personal liking of the map. So with this ranking maps I like the most for whatever reason, like the design, how much fun it's to play, how memorable and unique it is etc. Maps that are hard (for the respective episode) and I like get the highest combined score of 10. So i then averaged the results and that's why you get those specific numbers.

>>6340263
>Thy Flesh has my absolute favorite map of Doom 1, E4M2, and M1, M6

Nice. Those three are my favorites too, and i rated them 10s.

[Anonymous No.6340334]

>>6327908
>>>>>6339764

[Anonymous No.6340669]

>>6327908
Dont you like hard games? You're lazy.

[Anonymous No.6340686]

>>6340296
Not intentionally, but I guess that's how it ended up; I did really like Sigil a lot too. Doom is at its best for me when it's sort of a "combat puzzlebox": a tough level and monster layout that has to be solved, rather than just endured like a dungeon crawl, and M2/M6 fit those definitions almost exactly.

[Anonymous No.6340690]

>>6340669
He did actually finish it though.

[Anonymous No.6341750]

>>6337285
Yeah, pretty sure I used multiple quicksaves but I have beat it a couple of times. Honestly wouldn't have a patience to do any slaughtermap in a single try, though I respect the skills of those who do.

[Anonymous No.6341952]

>>6328452
Based.

[Anonymous No.6343064]

back then 10 years ago or so I played only one map of TNT Evilution because it was so much fun. I think it was The Mill and everyone hated that map. I loved how many secret areas it had and had a blast with the Arch-Vile fight.

[Anonymous No.6343070]

>>6343064
I love that map myself, very atmospheric and fun to explore. It's worth playing through the entire set, there's some levels which are kind of plain and mediocre, and a few which are actually terrible, but most I think are decent or even pretty good.

Give it a go with Crispy Doom if you haven't touched Doom in years.

[Anonymous No.6344065]

>>6343064
Yeah I never quite understood the hate for Mill. Its one of my favourites from TNT.

[Anonymous No.6344069]

>>6344065
Can we just talk about the more fun maps in TNT? Human BBQ, Open Season, Dead Zone, Heck, etc.

[Anonymous No.6344080]

>>6327908
Plutonia experiment gets a lot better when you get the mindset of every room and button being a trap and expecting every room to be filled with hitscanners and revenants.

[Anonymous No.6344115]

>>6344069
>Human BBQ

I always hated that map for some reason.

[Anonymous No.6344181]

>>6344069
Heck is really neat. Sorta like a proto-plutonia map, with its combat design, and the various references to iwad maps.

[Anonymous No.6344198]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVyMsAja5z8

[Anonymous No.6344212]

>>6344065
It's a total pacekiller if you're playing multiplayer. You're blasting away for short, controlled snippets of destruction, and then you're thrown into a warehouse which is fun for neither co op, nor DM.
I guess it could be fun in SP if you're just kickin it with a six pack but idk to hell with that map, lol

[Anonymous No.6344254]

>>6344212
I don't think any map in TNT is good for DM.
Whats so bad about coop in Mill?

[Anonymous No.6344257]

>>6344254
I disagree about the DM, but as far as MAP18 the synergy (or lack thereof) is terrible. Way too much empty space. Especially with 2 players only. The puzzles and layout just stink.

[Anonymous No.6344364]

>>6344212
>>6344257
What maps in TNT are good for DM?

[Anonymous No.6344823]

>TNT is bad because Youtube celeb said so

>Human BBQ
>Power Control
>Hanger
>Stronghold
>Nukage Processing
>Central Processing
>Mount Pain aka Casual Pain
>River Styx

These are superior than orginal Doom's Chapter 2 and 3.

[Anonymous No.6345103]

>>6344823
>>TNT is bad because Youtube celeb said so
TNT has ALWAYS had a mixed reception. Even was listed among the top 10 most infamous wads in the "10 years of Doom retrospective" Doomworld made 17 years ago.

[Anonymous No.6345164]

>>6345103
It was listed due to the controversy of TeamTNT postponing an originally free wad to sell it as part of final doom, not due to the quality of the wad itself

[Anonymous No.6345197]

>>6344181
IKR, even has that starting teleport pad thing. I believe that was Milo's map.

>>6344823
You're a disingenuous revisionist faggot, perhaps one of the worst kinds on this board. TNT has NEVER been universally loved by the playerbase, if you go back 20 years in time, before you were born, you can find plenty of people in places such as Doomworld arguing that it isn't good, if you want something readily on /vr/, go look at the archives, you'll find thousands of posts calling it bad or shitty, dating back to the board's beginning, let alone before Civvie said it was boring.

I like TNT a lot, and I'll take any opportunity to defend it for its legitimate good sides, but fact is that it has some pretty bad sides too, and its style and formula very much doesn't appeal to all people. It was made by various different people with different levels of skill, and it really shows.

>>6345103
>>6345164
Correct, the commercial licensing was the big controversy in its day. Nonetheless, TNT was never as acclaimed as Plutonia.

[Anonymous No.6345443]

>>6344823
Tryhard, the post.

[Anonymous No.6345792]

I love Plutonia's aesthetic. It's basically Rambo Goes To Hell.
Wish it had a monster set dedicated to it so we could mix it with the Final Doomer weapon set and make a Plutonia TC.

[Anonymous No.6345820]

Also, i love how Plutonia basically lets you know from the get go that when you pick UV, you're playing with the big boys.
Honestly, if 4 revenants, 4 mancubi, 1 pain elemental, 2 arch-viles, and starting with a backpack, rocket launcher and both shotguns isn't a warning of what's to come, i don't know what it is.

[Anonymous No.6346104]

>>6345792
>It's basically Rambo Goes To Hell.
Hah, that's a great way of putting it.

>>6345820
>Also, i love how Plutonia basically lets you know from the get go that when you pick UV, you're playing with the big boys.
I know, right? It's great, it's what I really liked about E4M1 and E4M2, pulls no punches.

[Anonymous No.6346145]

>>6344364
Have you never played it or something? There's stinkers but it works about as well as Doom II. MAP16 even has its own Deathmatch-only area.

[Anonymous No.6346235]

>>6346145
>MAP16 even has its own Deathmatch-only area.
It does?

[Anonymous No.6346681]

>>6346145
>There's stinkers but it works about as well as Doom II
I only remember there being like two or three decent DM maps in all of Doom 2.

[Anonymous No.6346781]

>>6346145
>>6346235
Yeah I could not find one.

[Anonymous No.6346782]

>>6346235
He meant map26, but yeah it is pretty tight.
>>6346681
only map01 and map07, the rest is too big.

[Anonymous No.6346787]

>>6346782
Map26 doesn't either, though.

[Anonymous No.6346791]

>>6346787
yes it does, it is exactly this area https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRbywWO8Zl4

[Anonymous No.6346794]

>>6346791
Wait, really? That area looks so awful for DM.

[Anonymous No.6346798]

>>6346794
still better than the rest though.

[Anonymous No.6346803]

>>6346798
That isn't really saying much.

[Anonymous No.6346807]

>>6345164
Yes, but that didn't stop people from calling it bad.

[Anonymous No.6346861]

>>6346791
I never knew that.