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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6285027 No.6285027 [Reply] [Original]

What happened between these two? Do they hate each other today?

And what was the identity of the leaker from Ion Storm Dallas who went by BitchX and was constantly slagging Daikatana and the way Romero ran things?

>> No.6285176

carmack doesnt give a flying fuck about anything, he even killed his cat cause it peed on his couch probably due neglegence

>> No.6285184

They don't work in the same fields anymore and have little reason to interact on a professional level

>> No.6285204

They've probably buried the hatchet over drama from two decades ago and have moved on.
Both have personal lives to deal with and Carmack has shifted his work to VR, so there's not much of a point in keeping in touch.

>> No.6285210

Romero was supposed to do this thing with me a while back and repeatedly flaked out to drive his car around or something instead. Cyberjohn presumably don't have time for that shit

>> No.6285215

Aren't they currently working on a game together?

>> No.6285220
File: 420 KB, 504x676, romero now.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6285220

What went wrong bros?

>> No.6285221

>tfw Romero didn't want to fire Hall until after Doom's release so that Hall could at least get some royalties, but Carmack forced him to

>> No.6285271

>>6285215
Yeah I was just thinking about that trailer from a few years ago. I wonder what happened with that.

>> No.6285480

>>6285220

He's gonna make our car his bitch.

>> No.6285482

>>6285176
BASED

>> No.6285486

>>6285215
>>6285271
What
Link pls

>> No.6285502

>>6285220
>What went wrong

Nothing, John is just honoring he late Father's wishes that if that "game development" stuff went nowhere he'd get a respectable job.
Look at that man, you know he cares about your car.

>> No.6285513

>Carmack never gave a fuck about video games and is busy programming AI and doing the odd review on twitter for whatever shitty carbon copy fantasy novel he just read
>Romero is a fag busy promoting his wife's mobile game that has been delayed repeatedly for 3 years and taking his wife's son to numetal concerts

>> No.6285518

Carmack is too busy finding ways to program a teleporter that lets him go to your place and personally choke you to death

>> No.6285539

>>6285176
What do you mean? He had his cat put to sleep or something because it was pissing on the furniture? Was it just old?

>> No.6285545

I wish Carmack would get into old consoles, I'd love to see him code something amazing in 3D for lets say.. the Sega Genesis.
Just a pet project, see what he can do with today's knowledge.

Probably not much though, maybe something slightly better than that Wolf3D port.

>> No.6285554

>>6285539
His family had a cat that was bothering him one day when he was home coding some shit so he took it to a shelter and had it put to sleep. It's why his mother refuses to talk to him to this day.

>> No.6285565

>>6285027
>And what was the identity of the leaker from Ion Storm Dallas who went by BitchX and was constantly slagging Daikatana and the way Romero ran things?
Wow, I remember this. During the shitstorm that was Ion Storm Dallas and the development of Daikatana, a blog popped up run by an anonymous user called BitchX, that would post insider dirt about how fucked up Daikatana was and how shitty Romero ran things, how they were spending money hand over fist and not actually getting work done, etc.

It caused quite a splash and was pretty hot for a bit there, with everyone including the early gaming press reading every new post and reporting on the rumors. Romero was furious.

I believe the general consensus is that BitchX was Stevie Case either alone or with help from one or two others. She was Romero's girlfriend and was working for Ion Storm Dallas around this time, though I think they broke up during this period as well.

That brought back alot of memories of the late 90s/early 2000s gaming scene online. Anyone know if the BitchX blog got archived?

>> No.6285570

>>6285554
What the actual fuck? Was that when he was younger?

>> No.6285575

>>6285570
He was in his 20's. Carmack is the definition of an autistic psychopath. He literally cares about nothing but coding/astrophysics/whatever he's focused on. Look up any interview of him and how he talks or his arrest record from when he was 14 when the cops described him as a "brain on legs with no empathy for other people."

>> No.6285576

>>6285220
Dudes still a multimillionaire, he collects that shit, its in a room in his house. (Classic gas station shit is super expensive)

>> No.6285579

>>6285221
Eh, he went on to make Rise of the Triad and did ok for himself.

>> No.6285581

>>6285204
Was there ever actually a showdown? An incident? A blowup, argument of fight between the two when he was asked to leave by Carmack?

The way the two gloss over it in the story now is "Well we had different creative visions bro and Romero didn't want to be there and we didn't want him there anymore so it was a win-win for everybody" but that reeks of revisionist history to me. Was it really so wholesome and clean a split at the time?

>> No.6285586

>>6285575
Lol. Is that from when he made thermite to steal an Apple II from his school? Apparently the thermite actually did start dissolving the glass but one of the other boys got impatient and just opened it and set off an alarm which is how they got caught.

What an asshole though. Is he married/have kids? I wonder what he did when they shit their diaper? I'm sure he had nannies for that.

>> No.6285593 [DELETED] 

>>6285027
One's a jew and the others not.

>> No.6285629

>>6285581
No. Read "Masters of Doom" chapter 12 or 13.

>> No.6285630

>>6285593
What? Which is a Jew?

>> No.6285773

>>6285581
No. Carmack's autism lead to an ultimatum: Either fire Romero or dissolve Id.

>> No.6285776

>>6285629
>>6285773
Just downloaded Masters of Doom from libgen and read those chapters. Damn, it sounds like Carmacks autism really hit superhuman levels during the development of Quake.

>> No.6285782

>>6285027
Why does Carmack look like the buff Chad in this and Romero like a sissy nerd who can't even lift his weapon?

>> No.6285783

That is one shitty looking axe

>> No.6285794

>>6285586
>Is that from when he made thermite to steal an Apple II from his school?
Yes.
>Is he married/have kids?
Yeah, he's got a couple of kids.

>> No.6285798 [DELETED] 

>>6285782
Superior Aryan genetics.

>> No.6285862

>>6285554
>It's why his mother refuses to talk to him to this day.
Post proof

>> No.6285987

>>6285782
Carmack just isn't human. He reportedly drinks a Diet Coke and eats an entire medium pizza literally everyday for lunch, and has almost all his life, and his body is still in terrific shape.

>> No.6285993 [DELETED] 

>>6285987
He's an Aryan übermensch

>> No.6286000

>>6285782
>>6285987
This and his sociopathic behavior have proven what I've been saying for years: he's a fucking alien.

>> No.6286005

>>6286000
He really got a lot less alien-like after maturing, getting a kid etc. He was a freak up until the early Q3 days or so by my estimate

>> No.6286013

>>6286005
>He really got a lot less alien-like after maturing, getting a kid etc. He
Yeah he has given interviews where he has said that getting older has given him a lot more perspective on how he did things in the early days and how there were things he would do differently now if he could go back.

>> No.6286021

I'd kill for another game with both Johns working together again. They do wonders but I guess Carmack is too busy being the benevolent architect of this simulation called Reality.

I guess we could always use Adrian, John's discount version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDQSOmwA20

>> No.6286034

>>6286021
Did they ever really say they were going to make another game together as >>6285215 and >>6285271 said or were they thinking of the Adrian Carmack/Romero project you linked? (Blackroom I think?)

>> No.6286039

>>6286021
Adrian is an artist, he doesn't code. Carmack was the engine guy that made id great and everyone including Adrian agreed that without Carmack everything would fall apart, hence they they went with his autistic overmanagement during the Quake development

>> No.6286052

>>6286013
I like that he kept his enthusiasm for and focus in his work and hobbies after even realizing the value of true teamwork and empathy.

>>6286021
Romero is an alright level designer, but he doesn't really have anything super unique to offer. He's also still really thirsty for attention.
Carmack by his lonesome honestly won't have that much of an impact on any single project either, engine development is much more distributed and incremental these days.

>> No.6286071

Surprisingly muscular forearms on Carmack.

>> No.6286079

>>6286052
True, but I would love to see them all work on some kind of retro old school style shooter as a kickstarter or something. I know Tom Hall has tried to get some kickstarters going and failed. I don't remember if Adrian Carmack and Romero's Blackroom thing was a kickstarter or not or if it succeeded, but a reunion of Adrian, Romero and Carmack for something like that would absolutely get funded.

I think Carmack lost his mind over VR and resides in the digital dimension though.

>> No.6286084

>>6286079
*Hall, Adrian, Romero and Carmack

Maybe even some of the classic level designers like McGee or Peterson

>> No.6286094

>>6286084
McGee would probably actually be up for it. He's sailing around on warm seas and doing pirate game dev jams atm.

>> No.6286104

>>6286094
It would be awesome and I could honestly see everyone being on board except for John Carmack

>> No.6286112

>>6286079
Sigil was sort of like that, albeit just from Romero and built within DOOM II. The general consensus on Romero's map making abilities in the current day were mixed among the hardcore DOOM fanbase if I recall correctly, though I enjoyed them.

>> No.6286187

>>6286104
You know what, the thing I'd really want is a bunch of not necessarily well known or even related level designers of the late 90's - early 2000's era working on a game inspired by those times.

>> No.6286263

>>6286000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_aliens
Oh shit

>> No.6286297

>>6285575
carmack's one of those science guys with a high IQ but has strange/contradicting opinions constantly

>> No.6286309

>>6286297
>but has strange/contradicting opinions constantly
This.
Reading Masters of Doom had my mind get frustrated with Carmack several times.
He seriously must be difficult to work with, dude changes his mind every fucking time, hell despite arguing gameplay was important, he dropped Quake's original gameplay in favor of "muh grafix" and to get the game out as soon as possible.

>> No.6286313
File: 344 KB, 3607x4043, grape.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6286313

>>6286297
As a regular /his/toid, it always astounds me how commonly this appears to pop up among history's geniuses.

>> No.6286335

>>6286309
I think that's consistent. He was direct and practical, which can translate to gameplay > other stuff as well as simple, now > complex, later. And again, he's not the same person he was during those times

>> No.6286695

>>6285782
That's because he IS a buff chad.

>> No.6286709

>>6285630
Not him but genetically neither of them. Carmack is Irish and Romero is Native American.

>> No.6286720

>>6286297
Perfect example being Doom 3
>once famously said that story in a game is like story in a porn movie: It's expected to be there, but its not that important
>Doom 3 frontloads the story on you HARD

>> No.6286729

>>6285220
heck u, I would be honored to have Romero pump my gas. No shame in it, even dave chappelle worked at a gas station after the fame

>> No.6286776

>>6285554
Man, that really sours my opinion on Carmack. I still love Doom and Quake and all, and call me a moralfag if you must, but that's just heartless.

>> No.6286794

>>6285554
>and had it put to sleep
Source? As far as I know most of the official information just mentions that he took Mitzi to a shelter, and that's it.

>> No.6287025

>Romero had the badboy rockstar attitude
>became fat and started painting his nails
>Carmack was a majorly awkward nerd with speech tics who once stayed up for 3 days living off of Diet Pepsi
>put Jace Hall into a chokehold and still looks in-shape today
hmm

>> No.6287059
File: 84 KB, 1024x834, 38c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6287059

>>6285027

>> No.6287104
File: 49 KB, 801x532, id team 1993.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6287104

>>6285782
Carmack doesn't look that buff, its just the camera angle and him lifting his sword making his arms look bigger. Romero's arms are just slightly smaller than Carmack in this pic. Also Romero didn't have a garbage physique when he was a bit younger as shown here, but he slacked off and got fat.

>> No.6287570

>>6286729
that cant be right...

>> No.6287586

>>6285027
they both came out as bi a few years ago and started visiting tranny bathhouses. are you this fucking desne?

>> No.6287593

>>6287586
source.

>> No.6287637

>>6286000
>what I've been saying for years
Top quality life detected

>> No.6287639

>>6286776
How are cats more important than coding? You have messed up priorities. They kill unwanted cats by the truckload every day.

>> No.6287645

>>6285565
didn't he dare Killcreek during this time, who later went on to pose in playboy?

>> No.6287648

>>6287645
That woman....when she was with Romero, she bleached her hair and did that tit enhancement, made look like an anime character. Not to mention, she went out with top players and devs like toilet paper.

Now, i think she's a lesbian or something, not sure.

>> No.6287668
File: 384 KB, 635x795, 580.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6287668

>>6286313
I was just thinking that. Maybe their intelligence means they constantly come up with internal counter arguments to their own views and opinions? That would explain some of the more baffling examples of this.

>> No.6287746

>>6287648
>lesbian

she married an average dude, had a baby or two and lost her looks.

>> No.6287765

>>6285482
>>6287639
If they killed edgelords like you by the truckload instead the world would be a better place.

>> No.6287768

>>6286720
>once famously said that story in a game is like story in a porn movie: It's expected to be there, but its not that important
lol this is literally only the mindset of shitty writers and lazy companies.

>> No.6287770

>>6285593
Tee hee you called someone jew ha ha like Cartman from South Park xDDD

>> No.6288492

>>6285027
Someone didn't read Masters of Doom. Romero preferred the PR side of things, making appearances and playing matches, and neglected development. Carmack, as a major stockholder and cofounder, gave him an ultimatum, but Romero was just spreading himself thin.

>> No.6288708

>>6287768
bro literally?

>> No.6288760

>>6287104
Wasn't John Carmack actually pretty muscular under his shirt?

>> No.6288779

>>6285027
Why is Carmack the only one looking into the camera, while Romero looks away disinterested?

>> No.6288786

>>6287025
>put Jace Hall in a chokehold
Lol what? I need more info on this

>> No.6288787

>>6287104
I mean Carmack doesn't look scrawny here either though, his arms look bigger than you'd expect a computer nerds to be and he seems to be in shape

>> No.6288793

>>6287645
Yeah, she also was most likely the BitchX Ion Storm leaker as well

>> No.6288796

>>6288787
Carmack is peak genetics, physically and mentally.

>> No.6288870

>>6287770
Epic post! Upvoted!

>> No.6289017

>Carmack alone = bland as fuck looking Quake 2/3/4 which might play well but have hardly any story.

>Romero alone = tons of story ideas and interesting map designs but fails to put it all together into a good game.

They needed each other.

>> No.6289063

>>6287639
Stop posting on /vr/ Carmack.

>> No.6289072

>>6286079
Who was the guy who left id over an issue of share ownership? Adrian Carmack? It's kinda sad, I can get leaving over creative differences like Hall or Romero, but it feels bad to see close associates fall out over greed.

>> No.6289075

>>6286084
>Peterson
Poor Sandy is stuck trying to keep Chaosium afloat.

>> No.6289091

>>6287768
Nah lots of open ended/sandbox type games don't need a plot and are even impeded by it. Those games should just have some background/setting stuff and let the player do their thing.

>> No.6289236

>>6289091
I don't know, The Witcher III had a pretty good plot.

>> No.6289240

>>6289072
>but it feels bad to see close associates fall out over greed.
Seems to be fairly common for businesses in the 80s and 90s.

>> No.6289292

>>6286720
wasn't carmack just coding by that time?
he certainly isn't credited for designing nor writing doom 3.

>> No.6289435

>>6285027
They don't hate each other, they were simply never friends. Carmack is a genius, but he's also a diagnosed sperg. He lacks the empathy necessary to have friends. That's why he works at facebook.

>> No.6289436

>>6289292
Well he still did a shitty job because the gunplay was absolutely putrid, imps spawned out of nowhere, and you couldn't see more than 4 enemies at the same time.

>> No.6289439

>>6285482
This weak-ass upvote shit has to die.

>> No.6289442

>>6288786
Jace Hall asked Carmack to perform a Judo choke on him. Carmack would die in a real fight though, he's a smaller manlet than Todd Howard.

>> No.6289460

>>6289435
>but he's also a diagnosed sperg
Source?

>> No.6289476

>>6289460
He has the symptoms but he has never stated being diagnosed as far as I can tell.

>> No.6289504

>>6289476
He also has the symptoms of sociopathy, but they tend to be more sophisticated than how Carmack normally acts.

>> No.6289512

Friendly reminder that Deus Ex is the only good game from Ion Storm and Romero didn't even work on it because he was busy jerking off with his shittastic Daikatana.

>> No.6289518

>>6289512
Romero's hubris caused Ion Storm to collapse into itself and split into two halves. And Daikatana was developed by the evil half.

>> No.6289524
File: 1.15 MB, 1280x960, 2327440-anox_2012_09_06_03_26_02_11[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6289524

>>6289512
Anachronox isn't bad

>> No.6289529

>>6287765
When pets get so old they become incontinent, they're put down. That's not edgy it's normal, people just like you and your family do the same thing.

>> No.6289787

>>6289529
No.

>> No.6289978

>>6285575
Imagine it turns out he's had this secret basement for years where he's been torturing people with bizarre machinery that he built and coded himself.

>> No.6290034

>>6287765
Ironically, this in itself is an edgy sentiment so I guess you'd be shot right along with me.

>> No.6290040

>>6287770
Don't cry

>> No.6290372

>>6289292
He just built the tech for it, yes, but he also had to sign off on what the creative team and dev team were doing with it.

>> No.6290376

>>6289529
Yeah but the cat Mitzi wasn't old and incontinent, she just annoyed Carmack so he dropped her off at an animal shelter (he didn't ask for it to be put down as the story may imply, he just dumped the cat off there and that's what they do with strays)

>> No.6290395

>The game has to be fun as you’re doing your actions, as you’re sitting there doing your ”bob and weave,” ”duck and attack” that’s what has to be fun-not the fact that you are progressing through a story to some end goal. That’s something that I’m making no excuses about, no slipping around saying ”Oh, there is a story” and all that. Yes, there is a little back-story, but that’s not the point. The point is that the game is fun to play. There’s value to be had in story-driven games-it’s another valid style. It’s not like we’re saying ”this is the only way to do games;” but one thing we absolutely are coming out and saying is that this is a valid way of doing games, and we are not apologizing for the lack of story.

Apologize.

>> No.6290407
File: 580 KB, 662x633, 78c.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6290407

>>6290395
Based Carmack

>> No.6290446

>>6289512
I didn't think Invisible War was BAD, it just was no longer an rpg.

>> No.6290448

>>6290395
Then why did you frontload Doom 3's shitty story on us, John?

>> No.6290453

>>6285220
daikatana flop hit him hard, so now he's working on a gas station. Sad!

>> No.6290456

>>6290446
I've always wanted to play it, played the shit out of Deus Ex when it came out but I never player nor even knew anyone who played Invisible War at the time. But I have always heard it is literally impossible to get running on modern systems. There is an OG Xbox release but it's not backwards compatible so I'd have to fucking buy an Xbox too

>> No.6290457

>>6290448
I remember Adam Sessler doing a review on Quake 3 saying something like "id realized that storytelling is not their strong suit."

>> No.6290458

>>6290448
>*bakes a good apple pie*
>the point of a pie is that it tastes good, and our apple pie tastes good
>i'm not saying blueberry pie can't taste good either, but i won't apologize that this apple pie doesn't have blueberries
>*goes on to bake a good blueberry pie*
>anon: wowwwwwwwwwwwwww why are there blueberries in this blueberry pie?
Based.

>> No.6290468

>>6290456
>But I have always heard it is literally impossible to get running on modern systems.
It's not, get the steam release and the unofficial patch, it'll fix random shit like "the game crashes every loading screen because that's faster in doing level transitions than trying to load" and adds proper widescreen support.

>> No.6290471

>>6290458
No the issue is the blueberries in that blueberry pie are terrible. The problem with Doom 3's story is the story was shit and the beginning of the game forces you to pay attention to it.

>> No.6290479

>>6290468
Oh, cool. I guess I can find a torrent for that then.

>> No.6290483

>>6290471
>the issue is the blueberries in that blueberry pie are terrible
It has an 87% critic score on metacritic, and an 88% audience score on steam, so the vast majority of people enjoyed it. Maybe the pie just wasn't for you, that's perfectly fine.
>the story was shit and the beginning of the game forces you to pay attention to it
I very much liked walking around the station for the few minutes the game asks of you, and seeing the facility in a functional state, right before everything goes to hell. I also enjoyed picking up and listening to each and every audiolog, it was very SS2, and for me, that's a good thing.

>> No.6290484
File: 202 KB, 365x363, problems.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6290484

>>6290456
I hope you'll forgive my ranting, but among the games made after the original IW is better-written but HR is more fun to play. Invisible War brings up more worthy philosophical subjects than HR. HR is too obsessed with cyborgs and making it a parallel to things happening RIGHT NOW even though the point of the original DX is "these are problems we'll have down the line if current trends continue" because it was forward-thinking. IW isn't a fun game. It's no longer an RPG, universal ammo was just a bad idea considering it's not like ammo took up inventory space in DX anyway, and an absolutely terrible inventory system. It existed to show off their new ragdoll physics which are amazing.

IW was a smarter game than HR. IW dealt with the ideas of how democracy evolves in a society increasingly more focused on utopian visions, human intolerance towards the other, capitalism going out of control, DX's themes on transhumanism and the centralization of power, the technological singularity, and the role of religion in an society that becomes more and more technology-focused. What was HR about? Cyborgs. Cyborgs, cyborgs, cyborgs. Also gun control and abortion, through the lens of cyborgs. Yeah the themes of corporate influence and media control of the conversation are there but they're a backseat to cyborgs. To quote Ross Scott on this, if you removed any one of the themes from the first 2 games, you'll still have a story. If you remove cyborgs from HR, there is no story. Without that all you have is a guy flying around on your company jet and shooting up security guards. And again to quote Ross Scott, having a single central theme is not a bad thing as long as you know what you're doing, but the problem with HR is it never brings up a convincing argument as to why augmentation is a bad thing. They use sweeping generalities all the time, like how it's "the next stage of human evolution" and "naturals don't stand a chance" but don't give you much of a reason WHY.

>> No.6290495

>>6290456
Pick it up on GOG for 97¢ https://www.gog.com/game/deus_ex_invisible_war grab the patch https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Deus_Ex:_Invisible_War#Essential_improvements and it runs just fine on win10.

>> No.6290518

>>6289017
Literally everyone at ID realized this.
McGee realized this
Sandy Peterson realized this
Adrian realized this
Kevin realized this
Even Paul Steed that didn't even know Romero and trashed talked him at first fucking realized this this which is why he got fired.

>> No.6290541

>>6290484
>They use sweeping generalities all the time, like how it's "the next stage of human evolution" and "naturals don't stand a chance" but don't give you much of a reason WHY
Why are performance enhancing drugs banned from competitive sports? Because everyone would need to use them for a level playing field. But wait, the quality of your genetics largely control how efficiently you're able to put on muscle, and how quickly you can recover. Since steroids bridge that gap, wouldn't it be even more 'fair' if everyone took them? Yes.

The same can be said for augments. How could anyone but the most gifted individuals compete with someone who's augmented, and what happens to normal humans when the augs can wildly surpass all natural human capabilities? It's the same thing we're facing right now with rapidly advancing automation tech, except in the DE universe, we're turning ourselves into the robots.

I replayed the director's cut edition about a year ago, and I'm positive those issues were mentioned.

>> No.6290553

>>6290541
The problem is unless you work in the military or construction, augmentations don't offer any real competitive advantage. 9/10 of the most common jobs in the US market are in the service industry. How does being a janitor or waiter benefit from having robotic limbs? It really doesn't. Keep in mind that the cool shit Adam has, 99% of augs don't get to have, even military augs. They were built only for special forces troops and no one else even knows they exist. Everyone else has a robot arm at best.

>> No.6290560

>>6290553
>How does being a janitor or waiter benefit from having robotic limbs?

You can clean shit off toilets and bring asshole customers their jalapeno poppers much quicker.

>> No.6290568

>>6290560
>You can clean shit off toilets quicker
Ok maybe
>and bring asshole customers their jalapeno poppers much quicker.
Getting it to the customer in a timely matter is entirely on the cook, not the server. And what people really want in a waiter is a good personality and the ability to correctly write down orders.

Hell even when prostitution comes up in the game, it explicitly says it doesn't make you better at sex, it just allows them to cater to people that have an aug fetish.

>> No.6290571

>>6290541
>>6290560
Here's the thing most people won't bring up: the vast majority of people won't willingly hack off their limbs for a 10% pay increase, and then after be reliant on a drug that you'll die of withdrawal if you don't take it for the rest of your life, thus augs will always be in an absolute minority unless you live in a country with lots of unexploded mines and thus a lot of people missing limbs. Steroids by comparison you just need to buy and inject, and while steroid withdrawal is bad, it's nowhere near that bad. This isn't nano-augs of JC's timeline we're talking about where the machinery is fused with your dna and thus is seamless.

>> No.6290582

>>6290553
>service industry/factory worker
Chromed legs with a waste reservoir allowing you to stand all day without taking bathroom breaks, chromed hands allowing you to work faster and more efficiently. If you're hiring a typist, are you going to hire the top of the line human with 99th (human) percentile WPM, or the one with the augged hands who can blow any human away? If you're Amazon hiring for your warehouse slave jobs, are you going to hire the guy that needs regular bathroom breaks, or the cyborg that can do it all better without rest?

>>6290571
>the vast majority of people won't willingly hack off their limbs for a 10% pay increase
Okay, and the same question arises when discussing automation, what do we do with these people when corporations refuse to hire them?
>and then after be reliant on a drug that you'll die of withdrawal if you don't take it for the rest of your life
Opioid crisis, etc.
>augs will always be in an absolute minority
Until the 'haves' out-compete the 'have-nots', and one side deals with the other. What do you think is going to happen when automation sweeps the service industry and there aren't any human jobs left for the bottom ~30% of the population?

>> No.6290589

Carmack went around and conived to convince Corporate that he was the only indespensible one because he was the Tech Wizzard. There are tons of people that can scribble out a map, or write a few notes of music, or draw a character design, but not Carmack. Carmack is a god.
Corporate bit the bait and the rest is history. Everyone else was expendable.

>> No.6290601

>>6290582
>Chromed legs with a waste reservoir allowing you to stand all day without taking bathroom breaks, chromed hands allowing you to work faster and more efficiently. If you're hiring a typist, are you going to hire the top of the line human with 99th (human) percentile WPM, or the one with the augged hands who can blow any human away? If you're Amazon hiring for your warehouse slave jobs, are you going to hire the guy that needs regular bathroom breaks, or the cyborg that can do it all better without rest?
I think you're vastly overestimating what civilian augs can do in HR. They're basically the robotic limbs we have now but with better weight capacity and more precise digit manipulation. Even then, it took Adam months to get used to using robot fingers without breaking everything, it's why he practiced with watch making. Of course you could chalk that up to him having superhuman strength above any other aug.
>Okay, and the same question arises when discussing automation, what do we do with these people when corporations refuse to hire them?
Because that won't happen for most fields in the end due to cost. Why pay for a robot when an immigrant is even cheaper? I should note in DX what caused the mass unemployment wasn't augs coming into existence, it was companies leaving for cheap overseas labor.
>What do you think is going to happen when automation sweeps the service industry and there aren't any human jobs left for the bottom ~30% of the population?
I don't think it'll actually happen. Either there'll be a neo-luddite revolution before it gets that bad, or much more likely when the industrial revolution happened and machines made indsutry much more efficient, we'll figure it out and create new jobs revolving around the new system.

>> No.6290606

>>6290582
>and there aren't any human jobs left for the bottom ~30% of the population?
No government would ever willingly let 30% of its population go into employment no matter how cozy they are with business simply because that's an easy way to get their head put on a pike. Literally, not figuratively. They would legislate the everliving hell out of business if it gets to that point and eventually the third world would be the only places that didn't, and why would the third would want them if they aren't hiring humans anyway?

>> No.6290665

>>6287765
>>6289529
>>6290376
carmack was right. 2D > asshole cats.

>> No.6290716

>Carmack : Story in a game is not that important.

Yes, yes it is John. I don't even remember ANYTHING from Quake 4 aside from the part where they cut your legs off.
The rest of the game was so fucking bland all I remember is running from room to room and pushing buttons to open access to other rooms with buttons in them!

>> No.6290984

>>6290716
Castlevania, Zelda and Mario would like to have a word with you.

>> No.6291020
File: 151 KB, 1020x681, 5dd4ffe941253c346e8b4569.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6291020

>>6290984
Three series with autistic amounts of lore?

>> No.6291130

>>6289524

It was very entertaining game with amazing soundtrack.

>> No.6291603

>>6285575
>Carmack is the definition of an autistic psychopath.
A sociopath. A sociopath is someone incapable of empathy. A psychopath would have killed the cat himself for enjoyment.

>> No.6291650

>>6289524
Based Tom Hall managing to produce something worthwhile even in midst of the shit show that was Ion Storm.

>> No.6291652

>>6291650
I take it the game was agreeable?

>> No.6291653

>>6291603
I might be a sociopath bros. Why can't I code revolutionary video games.

>> No.6291770

>>6285027
Right looks like he wants to be cornan the barborian, left looks like he wants to be slavia the slender but nimble amazon. Stop selling cameras to ugly fuckers with glasses :(

>> No.6291804

>>6289518
A dumb question.
Why is Daikatana considered bad, exactly? Not trying to be a contrarian, I just don't know. I've never played it. All I can hear from people is memetic "dude, just play it".
It the the weapons? AI sidekicks? Bugs?

>> No.6291881

>>6289518
That's not remotely true. Ion Storm Dallas was the company Romero founded. Romero then heard Warren Spector was about to sign a contract with EA, called Spector immediately and offered him a blank check to make his dream game, and voila Ion Storm Austin was founded. It was never a split, it was a positive outgrowth.

>> No.6291912

>>6285204
Carmack works in AI now and only acts as a consultant on Oculus

>> No.6291919

>>6291020
>Its often said that the heart of a game is its story, but that’s not the case. The story comes only after the core of the game system is completed. Then the characters come into focus and the world starts to manifest.
Miyamoto.

>> No.6291946

>>6285027
One was always smarter than the other, but they made a good duo back when.

>> No.6292017

>>6291881
This probably the most retarded post ITT thus far.

>> No.6292067

>>6291804
Mostly the hype and marketing at the time. The game being stuck in development hell for years with little to show for it when finally released. Romero's ego, since at the time he was considered a legit auteur, but had a "dude it's just a prank, bro" level sense of humour, which eventually came off as contempt for the audience (ex.: "John Romero is going to make you his bitch"). The game barely being able to run on any PCs at the time when launched; and the console ports were so confusing, most people quit before they could finish the first part of the game. Saving required a finite item, which was as bad of an idea as it sounds. And a number of other things I'm trying to remember.

But the shit it gets today is largely because of its notorious reputation, and how much of a failed project it was in the end.

>"dude, just play it, lmao"
Literally the worst answer you can give to "why is <game> bad?" questions.

>> No.6292092

>>6286776
Agree. I'm an unapologetic catfag. People who mistreat cats should be put in concentration camps.

>> No.6292143

>>6285575
He cares about stuff but doesn't talk about it. He seems interested in his kids, and he gives to charity a lot. He's just on a different wavelength.

One of the things he spent his Doom money on was to buy new bullet proof vests for the entire Dallas police department. Source: Masters of Doom

And the Mitzi thing was to take her to a shelter, not put down. She was getting old and he didn't feel like he could take care of her anymore in his crappy apartment. Source is also Masters of Doom.

>> No.6292149

>>6288760
Carmack works out. That's all it is, regular exercise.

>> No.6292154

>>6291653
Because you have to be sociopath AND smart to do it.

>> No.6292204

>>6287025
>hmm
*mmm...

>> No.6292302

>>6292154
Sociopaths arent smart. They are among the dumbest people you will encounter in life. The "high functioning sociopath" line from sherlock is hilarious. Carmack strikes me as slightly schizoztypal.

>> No.6292385

>>6290484
Based rant. Tell me, what is your opinion of Mankind Divided?

>> No.6292390

>>6290518
>Even Paul Steed that didn't even know Romero and trashed talked him at first fucking realized this this which is why he got fired.
More info on this?

>> No.6292408

>>6290589
>Carmack went around and conived to convince Corporate that he was the only indespensible one because he was the Tech Wizzard.
What Corporate? You mean to get rid of Romero. Didn't they own Id themselves?

>> No.6292497

>>6292302
Some sociopaths are intelligent people. Sociopathy is largely a disorder that affects empathetic traits in a person. Intelligence has almost nothing to do with it, and is purely correlational at best.

>> No.6292519 [DELETED] 

>>6292497
Sociopathy is far more complex than just lack of empathy. Some of them even snap back and fourth between the states. I stand by what i said, if you suppress your emtions, you will suppress part of your intelligence, creativity and instincts.

>> No.6292524

Sociopathy is far more complex than just lack of empathy. Some of them even snap back and fourth between the states. I stand by what i said, if you suppress your emotions, you will suppress part of your intelligence, creativity and instincts.

>> No.6292532

>>6292524
Emotions and intelligence are two different things, and different processes on the brain - sometimes with little-to-nothing to do with each other.

Also, suppressing emotions implies that it's being done deliberately, when some people are just generally like that from the get-go.

>> No.6292548

>>6292532
If an individual suppresses their emotions from an early age on, they will not develop a wholistic intelligence. Nor will any intelectual maturity take place. And what you see with real world sociopaths is, they dabble in pseudo intellectual behaviour. Which is not always easy to see through at first. They simply fake intellect. Pay attention, look past their act. Its quite shocking. Carmack might just be an awkward super nerd with schizotypal tendencies.

>> No.6292569

>>6292548
>If an individual suppresses their emotions from an early age on, they will not develop a wholistic intelligence.
You're describing two different things here (and in this case: completely different). Suppression of emotions lead to a number of effects, but intelligence is rarely one of them. Because, again, that's a different process altogether. And in fact, people who have suppressed emotions (whether deliberately or not) often wind up excelling in intellectual areas, because the energy required for their emotional processes wound up being rerouted to other areas. Emotions and intelligence are two different things on the brain that *should* coalesce, but many times don't.

>They simply fake intellect.
You can't fake intelligence or intellect if you don't have them.

>> No.6292573

>>6292532
>some people are just generally like that from the get-go.
Thats psychopathy, which is an entirely different animal.

>> No.6292574

>>6292569
dude, make your homework...

"Noun. pseudointellectual (plural pseudointellectuals) A person who claims proficiency in scholarly or artistic activities while lacking in-depth knowledge or critical understanding. A person who pretends to be of greater intelligence than he or she in fact is."

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pseudointellectual

>> No.6292607

>>6292569
What a pseud. The idea that intelligence and emotions are completely separate is considered entirely archaic by today's standards. Most people diagnosed with sociopathy have below average IQ. What you are describing happens in some rare cases, which makes them more notorious.

>You can't fake intelligence or intellect if you don't have them.
What is a dilettante?

>> No.6292610

>>6292569
Besides, when you meet a stranger in real life. And you have to estimate their level of inelligence. You will not judge them on how well they can manipulate complex objects in a special environment. You will go by their wholistic intelligence. Which includes their emotional intelligence. By that being said, even if you would find a sociopath which rivals the cold hard logic of a psychopath, they still could not be called overly intelligent in the common sense. Logic has limits.

>> No.6292619
File: 77 KB, 1024x1024, KY-colonel_boxB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6292619

>>6292607
>Most people diagnosed with sociopathy have below average IQ.
Someone give this man a cigar.

>> No.6292662

>>6287104
cool guys at the beach

>> No.6292710

>>6288793
really? why? bitchX was a popular IRC client for linux (or ubuntu or some shit)

>> No.6292763

>>6292408
ID had suits back in the 90s.

>> No.6292807

>>6292607
> Most people diagnosed with sociopathy have below average IQ
HMMMMM, I don't know about that one. I've known more than a few actual sociopaths (several were convicted and are serving time as we speak) and they generally are above average intelligence at least. You have to be pretty crafty to manipulate everyone without getting found out. One could argue most sociopaths don't have very good long term surviveability simply because of the odds they wont be able to get away with their bullshit forever.

>> No.6292809

>>6285987
>a ***Diet*** Coke
>an entire serving of vegetables and the rest of the food pyramid save fruits
>is healthy
and you're surprised?

>> No.6292848

>>6292067
>but had a "dude it's just a prank, bro" level sense of humour, which eventually came off as contempt for the audience (ex.: "John Romero is going to make you his bitch")
That advert was not John Romero's idea and he detested it.

>> No.6292850

>>6292548
retard

>> No.6292857

>>6292574
>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pseudointellectual
That's simply claiming to be intellectual. Faking it, i.e.: acting it, cannot be done if you don't have said intellect.

>>6292607
>two different human functions aren't different nor separate
Hmmm...
>What is a dilettante?
A different topic altogether.

>>6292610
>Besides, when you meet a stranger in real life. And you have to estimate their level of inelligence. You will not judge them on how well they can manipulate complex objects in a special environment. You will go by their wholistic intelligence.
That's more a thing with you, not them.
>Which includes their emotional intelligence.
Which is also something else.

>> No.6292860

>>6285782
Carmack trained in judo when he was a teenager

>> No.6292864

>>6286776

Don't be retarded enough to believe stupid rumors you read on 4chan. I love cats WAY more than I love Doom but I'm not gonna hate some stranger because of an unsourced forum post.

>> No.6292887

>>6292807
Anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me one bit, since it's authenticity is extremely doubtful.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4720052/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118547-real-life-psychopaths-actually-have-below-average-intelligence/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-else/201612/are-psychopaths-really-smarter-the-rest-us

>>6292857
>two different human functions aren't different nor separate
Just because they're different it doesn't mean they don't work off each other. The biggest genius in history held (for the most part) very humanitarian views.

>> No.6292915

>>6290458
>>6290483
>food analogy
>cites metacritic scores
We've got a live one

>> No.6292968

>>6292887
>Just because they're different it doesn't mean they don't work off each other.
They *do* work off each other (sometimes), but they're still their own independent processes set to follow their own agendas that can (sometimes) be called upon by the other to work towards a similar goal. But that's not always case - they're basically particularly performances tasked with a certain goals on what is ultimately the same machine, in order to (hopefully) work together towards whatever the machine needs; but they're still their own thing regardless. Because of this, you get many individuals are who sufficient in one area, but debilitated in another, while still not (necessarily) invalidating the other. This is among the reasons why you many savants and individuals on the autistic spectrum who are exceptionally talented in one area (or set of areas), but decidedly diminished in basic areas like empathy, common sense, emotionality, etc. Due to their processes simply being out-of-balanced, with resources pooled in favour of their intellects and talents, but taking away from other essential needs that your "normies" can do with gusto.

>> No.6292975

>>6292968
That is much more related with autism (as you said) or ocd than sociopathy or psychopathy though.

>> No.6293039

>>6285027
jesus how is this thread still alive

>> No.6293043

>>6293039
It's only been three days, I've seen threads last an entire year. Whether that's a good thing or not, I cannot say.

>> No.6293054

>>6292975
Sociopathy and psychopathy are still disorders where resources are being pooled in certain areas (often debilitating in some fashion) at the detriment of other areas that are often essential and basic for other people. Which is roughly how these disorders even bother coming to be in the first place.

>> No.6293072

>>6292763
Really? I didn't know that. Investors?

>> No.6293083

>>6292710
Everyone seems pretty sure it was Stevie Case, don't see who else it would have been.

Bitch X was actually the username of the leaker, they had a blog and were leaking internal dirty laundry and how fucked up Romero and Daikatana's development was going.

This article talks some about it:
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/end-game-6400940

I remember reading the site at that time and how everyone in the online fan community surrounding Ion Storm and Romero in general were talking about it. I can also remember going back years later and finding alot of her posts on the Wayback Machine. I will look around later and see if I can find an archived version of the page.

>> No.6293105

>>6285782
John Carmack along with Steve Albini (left) are probably most Chad sterotypical "nerdy" looking guys of all time.

>> No.6293119

>>6293105
Steve Albini really gives zero fucks. My favourite moment from him is when he called out Tyler the Creator and the rest of Odd Future for chimping out on an airport shuttle a few years back.

>> No.6293128

Carmack became redpilled, Romero supports tranny rights.

Put it together yourself.

>> No.6293136

>>6285215
>>6285271
you guys are so fucking stupid. adrian carmack is not john carmack. how do you guys not know this shit? fucking kill yourselves for real. Also he just dropped the cat off at the shelter. he didnt tell them to put it to sleep. you guys are like highschool tier with your retarded rumors and lack of knowledge. just end it. seriously.

>> No.6293137

>>6293128
> Carmack became redpilled
I would need some proofs my man

>> No.6293140
File: 24 KB, 500x334, dd7ec23774e0d919e7c1c148e9301748.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6293140

>>6293105
>>6293119
Fuck forgot the pic

>> No.6293142

>>6293119
Yeah I remember that, he basically called him and his friends out for acting like obnoxious niggers.

>> No.6293251

>>6293128
Carmack has never given a fuck about anything outside his work

>> No.6294098

But was id ever a group of friends? Everything about them was situational: they just used each other as long as it was possible and bearable.

id wasn't of that type of development teams that manage to create a kind of true friendship among themselves (e.g. Bullfrog/Lionhead or early Firaxis).

>> No.6294123

>>6293128
>>6293137
Here's Carmack's real political views.
https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/oh-john-carmack-no/61802/8

>TL;DR
Don't pay taxes goyim, just give all your shekels to god-emperor overlord zucc! Who needs social programs when you can coom to VR lolis?

>> No.6294509

>>6294123
Not really, he's saying that you can donate money to a project you are interested in and would like to see thrive, but shouldn't be obligated to. He's also completely correct in saying that the government invests a fuckton of money through taxation in faculties that produce very little results and are, in some ways, futile and regressive (i.e. Gender Studies, some pointless, self evident Psychology studies, all paid trips for movie and music researchers, celebration parties for government officials, etc)

>> No.6294539

>>6285782
Pretty sure that I heard a story once where Carmack was the only person in the office that knew how to use an axe to bust a door open. Carmack is more than what he seems.

>> No.6294693

>>6292809
Diet Coke is worse for you than classic Coke.

>> No.6294753

>>6294098
They did get close for a bit there, especially when they were all staying in the lake house in Georgia and staying up all night coding and playing D&D and shit. The famous D&D campaign that Carmack DM'd that produced the character Quake (an ultra powerful NPC in their game) happened during that time. Carmack said he thought Romero was the coolest guy he had ever met when they first met and started working together, especially since Romero had already been making and selling games. So it was situational but I would say there was some real bonds during those early days. I think that may have been why Tom Hall was hurt by them just not wanting his story ideas for Doom and leaving. Clearly as business went on it was less like the crazy carefree early days and much more, well business. So no bonds were strong enough to come between that in the end, clearly.

>> No.6294756

>>6294753
*Think that lake house may have been in Louisiana actually, whatever been forever since I read Masters of Doom

>> No.6294772

>>6294753
Btw Hall and Romero seem to be pretty fond of each other nowadays (all those fests and other events they take part in together) yet, at the same time, they don't share any projects.

>> No.6295117

>>6294509
>Not really, he's saying that you can donate money to a project you are interested in and would like to see thrive, but shouldn't be obligated to.
As if billionaires would donate more than 0.001% of their wealth for anything that doesn't bring them money. In that kind of world, enjoy being a low class underpaid wagecuck with no government subsidies and dying from untreated cancer accelerated by workload stress I guess.

>He's also completely correct in saying that the government invests a fuckton of money through taxation in faculties that produce very little results and are, in some ways, futile and regressive (i.e. Gender Studies, some pointless, self evident Psychology studies, all paid trips for movie and music researchers, celebration parties for government officials, etc)
No mentioning of bloated defense budget, company bailouts, and bank bailouts? Three things that literally caused the global recession? That's what happens when you give private companies too much freedom. They only care about short term profit instead of the long run. Irresponsible companies are the cause of inefficiencies in the US such as expensive and complicated healthcare, expensive student loan, housing bubble, mortgage crisis, and so on.

I think Carmack is an intelligent and talented programmer, but he needs to go outside more. He's absolutely braindead when it comes to politics. That or he has been brainwashed by zucc.

>> No.6295135

>>6295117
Ok. I still think it would be rad to coom inside my vr waifu.

>> No.6295173

>>6294772
I have noticed that, too. They do seem to be pretty good bros nowadays but then they still don't collaborate on any actual work together. Seems like a good fit, better than Romero and Adrian Carmack who tried to get a kickstarter off the ground.

He's got Hall's back though, Romero called out Tim Willits for claiming he created the idea for multiplayer online maps during Quakes development and claimed Romero and Carmack thought it was a dumb idea. Romero quickly pointed out that Doom fans had been making them for awhile already and the first commercially released multiplayer only maps were in Tom Hall's Rise of the Triad (and maybe Marathon on Mac). The story Tim told never happened, something Carmack also confirmed later.

>> No.6295176

>>6295173
*multiplayer only maps (i.e. Deathmatch maps)

>> No.6295179

>>6295173
What the fuck is Zucc? (((Zuckerberg)))?