/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6219330]

I recently happened upon the Metal Max series. Very rarely see anyone talking about it. I'm interested in getting into these titles and I'd like to know the best way to play the first two /vr/ titles since there are two versions of 1 and three versions of 2. What's your experience with these games?

[Anonymous No.6219345]

I played Returns and Reloaded though there are some people who prefer the Famicom version of 1.
For 2 the GBA port appears to be universally loathed like so many GBA ports. Reloaded obviously changed a lot of stuff like adding different classes and a subclass system.

[Anonymous No.6219438]

>>6219330
I've played Metal Saga, kinda neat. In the first battle I used a special attack which costs money, I was like -$800 in debt and couldn't buy any items

[Anonymous No.6219508]

>>6219330
It probably doesn't get much attention here because only two games in the series ever had an English release and neither are retro.

[Anonymous No.6219540]

>>6219330
Great series. MM1 is probably the greatest JRPG of its generation, and MM2 is more of the same. Returns is a complete waste of time though.

[Anonymous No.6219563]

I have some rudimentary knowledge of japanese, enough to read yotsuba with some heavy external aid

should I venture the untranslated titles?

[Anonymous No.6219572]

>>6219563
You can at least try.
Just stay away from METAL SAGA ~鋼の季節~.

[Anonymous No.6219575]

>>6219540
I'm playing Returns right now. Why am I wasting my time?

[Anonymous No.6219610]

>>6219563
Yotsubato is touted a beginner-friendly title, but it's actually relatively hard. So don't feel too bad that you need aid.

I mean, if I put its difficulty on a scale of 1 to 5, I'd say it's a 3. There are easier manga around for learners.

(I've been lurking on some Japanese-learning q&a places and questions about Yotsubato come up quite often. For good reason.)

[Anonymous No.6219618]

>>6219575
dunno what he's smoking but for what I played of it twas fun

[Anonymous No.6219954]

>>6219610
Did you ever play the Famicom version for comparison?
I looked up some old posts on that subject.
>>/vr/thread/S4980069#p4987210

>>6219610
I always assumed Yotsubato was picked as a site tradition.

[Anonymous No.6220230]

>>6219575
Because you could be playing MM1 instead.

[Anonymous No.6220264]

>>6220230
On NES though? W. H. Y?

[Anonymous No.6221214]

>>6219575
You're not. Returns and the originam NES MM have both pros and cons.
>>6220264
Better damage formula, more open-world and overall harder enemies. There are several weapons that work differently, iirc.

[Anonymous No.6221883]

>>6221214
List of changes:
https://metalmaniax.com/index.php?MMR%2F%B9%B6%CE%AC%2FMM1%A4%C8%A4%CE%B9%B6%CE%AC%B0%E3%A4%A4
A major thing is the removal of smoke screens in Returns.
Returns also features more variety in tank designs. On the FC most were German WW2 tanks whereas Returns has Abrams, futuristic models and rentals based on Sherman or Gepard.

[Anonymous No.6223131]

>>6221883
Good stuff. Ultimately, both versions are worth a playthrough.

[Anonymous No.6223359]

>>6219330
Personally I prefer the Famicom version of 1, but there are a lot of players who prefer Returns. My biggest issues with Returns are the key cards, the large random damage range, and removal of some details from the original. Advantages of Returns are a higher degree of tank customization and more weapons with unique effects, but the game isn't difficult enough for these to be meaningful in my opinion. Returns obviously looks better, but you can't see as far around your character in dungeons due to the larger tile size, and the new soundtrack arrangements are a mixed bag.

Between the SFC and GBA versions of 2, only SFC is worth playing. The GBA version was so broken upon release that they had to recall the cartridges and release an updated version, which is still full of bugs. Ignoring the risk of game freezes and stats rolling over to zero, there are some nonsense changes like removal of items from the original. The GBA version adds two new outlaws, but they're only worth checking out for enthusiasts who have already played other versions of 2. SFC 2 is a great game, but is a little lacking in polish compared to MM1. It expands on a lot of the ideas and systems from 1, and has a more fleshed out world and backstory, but there are some balancing issues in the late game.

The DS remake (2R) adds so much that it's not really comparable to the original. It basically takes Metal Max 3's game system (with a bunch of improvements) and applies it to MM2's world while adding a ton of new quests and outlaws. It's my favourite in the series.

[Anonymous No.6223385]

>>6223359
>key cards
I understand they are a hindrance if you want to play the game multiple times since the original philosophy called for passwords that only needed to be learned once, but for a first time player they shouldn't make much of a difference.

[Anonymous No.6223397]

>>6223385
I don't agree. To unlock the door to the tank in Ghost Base you need the key card found in the hospital on the other side of the world map. On a first playthrough you can easily make your way through that dungeon only to discover you wasted your time because you either didn't pick up the card or put it in storage, the latter being likely since you have limited item capacity and there's never any sense of when key cards will actually be needed until you get there. There may have been other examples like Ghost Base, but I can't remember.

[Anonymous No.6223530]

>>6223397
You get clear hints that the card is from the base and given the treasure that you get from it it's a fair to make it somewhat harder to get. You're not going to come out empty handed in any situation.

[Anonymous No.6225221]

OP here. Thanks for all of the fantastic responses. I'll definitely be trying out both versions of 1, and my 日本語 reading level is decent enough that I will try my hand at 2R (as well as 3 and 4 after).

[Anonymous No.6225475]

>>6225221
Godspeed OP. Hopefully, you'll enjoy the games.

[Anonymous No.6225478]

>>6225221
Be sure to give us updates on your play.
Having someone providing fresh content is vital to keeping the discussion alive. Personally I find it interesting reading back on my own posts from two years ago.

>(as well as 3 and 4 after)
Try Metal Saga: Sajin no Kusari for the PS2 as well. It's part of the series in all but the name and unlike Hagane no Kisetsu it's a fun game.

[Anonymous No.6226442]

>>6225478
>Try Metal Saga: Sajin no Kusari for the PS2 as well.
Seconding this, just make sure you play it after 1 and 2. There are a ton of references you won't understand otherwise.

[Anonymous No.6226684]

>>6219330
>Very rarely see anyone talking about it.
I've only ever seen them talked about in SaGa threads.

[Anonymous No.6226710]

>>6219330
The SNES one is in English, so you play that, since it's just a better version of the NES game.

Also, people talk about it here and there. I played it, but didn't care for it much because it has zero story, so there's no motivation there to keep me playing. You're a dude who wants to fuck shit up with tanks, that's the plot, so then you just go do whatever until you come home and decide you're done.

[Anonymous No.6226763]

>>6219330
Metal Max Returns is one of my favorite JRPGs on the SNES. One of the main reasons I started learning Japanese was so I could play the rest of the series. Going to give 2 Reloaded a shot soonish (I tried it when I was a total beginner and got blown out, still forced my way in a bit and had some fun but at the level I am now I won't need a dictionary as much).
I love how open the games are, while still never leaving you completely clueless as to where to go.

[Anonymous No.6226860]

>>6226710
>it has zero story
That's not true. Metal Max games have story, but it's not shoved down your throat with cutscenes, exposition, or character drama. MM2 touches on a wide variety on topics including revenge, environmentalism, the moral dilemmas of scientists developing technology with unethical applications, and the nature of the self in a world where AI can mimic human consciousness. It does this by showing rather than telling, and letting the player draw their own conclusions.

[Anonymous No.6226905]

>>6226710
>it has zero story, so there's no motivation there to keep me playing
It has a world to explore, bounties to catch and things to be tried out.
It's a better motivation than the flimsy plot in MM2 or MS1.
It's perfect for people who just want to fuck shit up with tanks and do what they want instead of feeling forced to finish the game just for some ending sequence.

[Anonymous No.6227254]

Are enemy designs for the classics any less silly than what is in Saga?

[Anonymous No.6227284]

>>6227254
They are practically the same.
Saga did a good job transferring them to 3D.

[Anonymous No.6227312]

>>6227284
Oh well. That was my one gripe with the series. Not gamebreaking but I kinda wish it had slightly less funky designs at times.

Still fun to have a tank game like this tho.

[Anonymous No.6227468]

>>6226710
>Complete Ignorance: The Post

[Anonymous No.6227932]

Bump. /vr/ is too damn fast now.

[Anonymous No.6227987]

Have any of the retro games been translated besides Returns?

[Anonymous No.6227996]

>>6227987
Nope. The only MM games available in English are Returns, Saga, and Xeno.

[Anonymous No.6228007]

>>6227987
>>6227996
The Famicom version of MM1 also has an English translation now.

[Anonymous No.6228012]

>>6228007
Oh, my bad. Shame most people on this board can't physically handle playing NES JRPGs (m-m-muh encounter rates muh graphics muh simple battles muhmuhmuh STORYLINE).

[Anonymous No.6228027]

>>6228007

Cool, I'll try it out

[Anonymous No.6228094]

Are they ever going to remake Saga or 3?
This year they are going to release Xeno Reborn.

[Anonymous No.6228126]

>>6228012
>>6225478
>>6228007
OP here. I don't have a tremendous amount of time to play for the rest of the week, but you'll be happy to know that I loaded the Famicom MM onto my NES mini last night for about 30 minutes and instantly fell in love. I'll update as long as the thread survives.

>Metal Saga
I will put this on the list. I wasn't so sure about going off track from the numbered titles but everything I hear about this one is pretty positive. Thanks for the rec.

[Anonymous No.6228146]

You're making me want to launch up Saga again. But I never even got around to get far enough to get out of the starting buggy in it.

[Anonymous No.6228160]

>>6228126
Be sure to search for hidden items.
You can get a mine detector and later a metal detector that can scan the area for hidden stuff like tanks and weapons.