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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 35 KB, 800x426, 800px-SNES-SFAM-Cartridges.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618184 No.618184 [Reply] [Original]

Question for tech savy /vr/ people.
How long until my/your/our physical collections are worthless?

Save batteries on SNES are already notoriously hitting their end of lifecycle and (can be) a bitch to replace, let alone if you value keeping your save, there's no way to recover it. How long will data stored on SNES/GENS/NES catridges last? What about early physical discs (3D0, NeoGeo, Sega CD?) what about PS1/DC era (some say indefinite)?
I'm legitimately curious how long the "VR" lifespan is and how long a market can exist in a "physical form", and if there is even such a thing as "repair" after a certain point, namely for cartridges if anything.

>> No.618218

Oh man, is there a life expectancy on N64 carts? I never gave it much thought. Do they burn out?

>> No.618275

>>618218
Yes, all physical data has a lifespan.

>> No.618279

Is there a way to transfer the saves to an HDD? I know you can transfer saves to and from ROMcarts, but is there any way of transferring the actual cartridge data?

>> No.618281

>>618279
I was figuring of asking this very question, but I think the answer is
>no
at least "affordable" wise.

>> No.618285

>>618184
>a bitch to replace
I replace batteries in less than 3 minutes

>> No.618293

Carts will last longer than discs, if kept well. Save abtteries however - they die, but are technically replacable

>> No.618294

>>618184

They'll last more than you will.

Batteries aren't a problem, you can replace then easilly. For comparison, if you go to ebay you can still find old radios from 1920 working, and those weren't even using integrated circuits, they used shitty old valves!

>> No.618302

>>618285
Literally takes little to no time at all. You could do your entire 100+ game collection in a weekend easy if you were focused.

>> No.618303

I have been thinking about this for a while, and even considered doing a thread about it. Thanks for doing it for me, OP.

What will happen sometime in the future?
Eventually, only cartridges will remain, and as OP said, you'll lose your save states every 10-20 years. So what awaits our hobby? Emulation? Flash carts?

>> No.618314

>>618302

I honestly solder a battery holder to my games, so I just pop the old one out and insert a new fully charged one. Most games I don't even care about losing my save data, I can play through them again anyway, I only care about lengthy RPGs, but for those I can backup my save data with the proper tools.

>> No.618323

ITT: ignorance

Factory pressed, ie. not burnt, CDs will last well over 100 years.

Cartridges don't fucking "decay", I guess there's a theoretical limit to how many times you can write to the SRAM, so eventually it will stop storing saves even with a fresh battery, but that's probably around something like 100'000 saves.

>> No.618326

>>618303
The way I see it, speaking about emulation, in the future obviously even a cheap computer/laptop will be able to run anything up to GC/Wii. Heck, by then I bet android tablets will be pretty powerful enough to be modded into "consoles", they're already walking up there.

>> No.618334
File: 454 KB, 1280x1065, Retrode2-iso2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618334

>if you value keeping your save, there's no way to recover it

You could always backup your saves with a retrode to your computer.

>> No.618338

>>618323

Tell that to Laserdisc collectors (lol, yeah I know)

>> No.618352

>>618338
This might surprise you but, Laserdiscs are, in fact, not CDs.

>> No.618353

Unless your some sort of disgusting goon who manages to get shit inside the cart, there is no way to damage a cart other than the connectors corroding or the battery dying. Both are easy repairs.

>> No.618356

>>618352

Next thing you're going to tell me Dreamcast games aren't CDs.

>> No.618363
File: 40 KB, 170x155, reaction.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618363

>>618334
Elaborate.

>> No.618370

>>618356
You're pretty ignorant if you think laserdiscs are anything like CDs just because they are the same shape.

>> No.618367

>>618356
ps2 games aren't cds either. In fact, neither are xbox 360 or ps3 games.Couldn't tell you about dreamcast.

>> No.618373

>>618356
No shit, my point was that Laserdisc was an immature technology and they used shit materials and fabs.

>> No.618379

>>618363

>plug cartridge into retrode
>cartridge becomes usb stick you can connect to computer
>you can now copy your save and rom from the cart onto your computer

this allows you to swap saves between carts. If you don't own a retrode and a flash cart for each of your systems I really feel for you.

>> No.618385

>>618379
WHERE GET

>> No.618391
File: 29 KB, 133x123, r u srs m8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618391

>>618367
>CD stands for Compact Disc
I forgot disc-systems played games off of a non-Newtonian fluid being pumped through a tube from the controller.

Oh no wait they play Compact Discs

>> No.618395

From my brief reading a while back, its the early "discovision" laserdiscs from the 70s that were poorly made and already losing data. Not laserdisc in general.

>> No.618407

>>618391
DVDs will not play on a CD player or CD-ROM. They aren't CDs. Bluray is even more different.

>> No.618414

>>618385
http://www.stoneagegamer.com/retrode-en.html

>> No.618416

>>618407
tfw I forgot about DVDs
fuckin' /vr/.

>> No.618418

>>618385
http://www.stoneagegamer.com/retrode-en.html

>> No.618413
File: 86 KB, 500x378, 1367389516682.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618413

>>618395

>there were laserdiscs in the 70s

What?

>> No.618424
File: 14 KB, 500x375, 1354389311I came to laugh at you500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618424

>>618391
Really? Dvds =/= CDs.

>> No.618425

>>618385

First google result....just look it up...

>> No.618429

>>618367
Dreamcast game called their discs GD-Rom

>> No.618431 [SPOILER] 
File: 77 KB, 640x480, ohgod.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618431

>>618424
I know stop ok I'm sorry

>> No.618438

>>618323
Factory pressed CDs still corrode, numbnuts. UV light accelerates the process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

The best thing you can do is mod all of your systems and rip all of your games.

Emulation will be the only way to play games in the future, because THEY WON'T MAKE CDRs FOREVER! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

>> No.618447

>>618414
>$89.99

>> No.618448

>>618413
Launched in 1978, so yes.

>> No.618454

>>618438
>Emulation will be the only way to play games in the future

You know there's hard drives for ps2 games, and a flash card for the PS1's serial port right? Pretty much every cart based system has a flash cart too so...yeah, you're wrong. As long as the systems don't die (and with maintenance they shouldn't) then we're good for decades.

>> No.618467

>Not just collecting games for collecting sake and playing your games on emulators

What da fuck?

>> No.618462

>>618438
>Factory pressed CDs still corrode, numbnuts.
Yes, over a century
>UV light accelerates the process.
Who keeps their CDs in direct sunlight?

>> No.618476

>>618448

why did they wait like 15 years to release them to the public then? I don't remember seeing laserdisc players until the mid 90s.

>> No.618472

>>618467
>buying playable games
>not playing them

???

>> No.618478

>>618467
>not collecting, playing games on retro hardware, having retro collections on modern consoles, and emulating.

>> No.618482

>>618472

>Buying action figures new in box
>Not opening them and playing with them

???

>> No.618489

>>618476
They just never caught on in the Americas, assuming that's where you live. The first time I ever saw one was in 2nd grade, we watched some educational film on it. I thought it was some kind of weird CD-vinyl record hybrid. Never saw another one until years later.

>> No.618494

>>618476
And the only person I've ever met who has a laserdisc player is my best friend's stepfather, but that's an anecdote.

I can definitely say that they were out there. Arcade games like Dragon's Lair (1982) ran on laserdiscs.

>> No.618495

>>618476
My grandma's had a laserdisc machine in her house for as long as I can remember. Probably from the mid-80s if not earlier.

>> No.618498

>>618489

yeah, usa. We had them at rental stores for a brief period at least.

>> No.618528

>>618462
Fluorescent lights give off a shitload of UV light, and in case you've been living in the cave that is apparently your mother's basement for the past decade, everyone has been transitioning over to fluorescent bulbs, if only to cut down their electric bill. So of course power companies have raised their rates to compensate.

>>618489
Never mind the fact that you can buy a shitload of LD movies, shows, and events on ebay, as well as players. Shit, I have an LD player right next to me. All of my discs are fine for the moment.

>> No.618539

>>618528
You leave your CDs lying around?

Anyone who uses common sense to protect their discs from the most common method of destruction (scratches) has their discs outside of a case or player for all of 2 seconds at a time.

>> No.618584

>>618539
You're going to keep moving the goalposts back, aren't you? Hold up a jewel case. Now look at the top and bottom edges of it.

Oops, no paper to block light.

Now unless you're putting your games in black DVD cases, shit will fall apart eventually, even if it's just enough to start the aluminum layer to start corroding. The shade/diffuser on my desk lamp is literally crumbling since I started using fluorescent bulbs in it.

>> No.618603

>>618584
I'm a different poster, bro.

And my CDs are not stored in lighted areas, they don't receive any light of any kind except when I'm using them. Everything breaks eventually. I'll be too old to really care when it happens, though.

>> No.618606

>>618294
>>618323
>They'll last longer than you will/100 years
see this STATED but very little evidence in the game market. I'm in my mid 20s, so no, I dont think I'll be playing vidya at 120, lest we have some type of life expectancy-reversal tech come into play. However, double the time period (25, 30, 35 years from now, etc) these games HAVE been played, Cartridges DO have exposure to elements, and lord forbid not every game you bought was "factory sealed day 1 only played 2 minutes" and picked up at a flea market or yard sale. Sure, you can equate "common sense" and state most people dont touch the bottoms of the disc and only expose to playing, but games (imo) see more wear/tear and passing of hands/collectors than music cds.

>> No.618614
File: 139 KB, 500x378, hatethinking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
618614

>>618539

But if that transition phase is repeated 5,402,303 times the disc will rot, so you best not be moving your discs too much or else your great, great, great grandchildren won't be able to play them

>> No.620874

Mask ROM and Flash storage can last for centuries.

Optical discs are subject to bit rot after about 20-30 years, depending on the quality of the media.

>> No.620910 [DELETED] 
File: 3 KB, 224x158, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
620910

>>618467
>da

>> No.620942

>>618184
You take apart the cartridge, melt the solder on the battery, replace battery and re-solder. Like 5 minutes and not difficult at all.

>> No.620968

>>618614
I play my games 3 times. Once as a quick playthrough, twice to fully complete it and a 3rd time after a few years when i get nostalgia. I rarely remove the from the console when playing because I usually only play one game at a time per system. So I imagine my discs will never reach those statistics.

>> No.620982

>>618489
>I thought it was some kind of weird CD-vinyl record hybrid.
Nah, that was this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc

>> No.620994

Discs, aside from maybe Gamecube because they used cheaper discs than the average disc-based video game, will last atleast 500 years.

>> No.621016

No one knows how long discs will last. There is extremely diverse quality of manufacture and conditions of storage.

Carts are just a computer board that plugs into a console, they will outlast you.

>> No.621054
File: 10 KB, 280x139, I seriously hope you guys don't d'oh this.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
621054

Dumb question, please enlighten me with your knowledge /vr/: how long does flash (sd) memory last in good conditions?

>> No.621056

>>618367
>ps2 games aren't cds either.
PS2 blue discs are CDs.

>> No.622134

>>618418
>no NES capability

No sale.

>> No.622172

>>618314
>>620942
Is there a good way to do this? I attempted to resolder a new battery to the holders but no matter what I did I couldn't get it to stick. The batteries just resisted the solder and it'd come clean off after it solidified.

>> No.622215
File: 4 KB, 345x235, soldering heat sink.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
622215

>>622172

The solder didn't even stick for you because a battery is a huge thermal mass compared to a solder contact and most small irons aren't up to the task.

That said...

DO NOT SOLDER BATTERIES.

Direct heating to soldering temperatures ruins the battery and can cause it to vent or rupture. Battery tabs are spot welded to batteries, not soldered. Spot welds happen in an instant and don't heat up the battery to dangerous temperatures.

Unless you own an appropriate welder, you need to get a replacement battery that already has solder tabs attached. Desolder the old tabs from your game PCB and solder down a fresh tabbed battery. Optional but safer: Clip on a heat sink between the pad and battery to protect the battery from indirect heating if you can.

Alternatively you can remove the old tabbed battery and put in a holder. Then you can just pop the battery in to that.

>> No.622228

>>618606
Pins are replaceable, (E)EPROM failer or data corruption is rare.
Really, as long as the ROM is still intact the cart is salvageable.

>> No.622237

>>622172
Buy a coincell holder. They're pretty cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-CR2032-CR2025-Computer-Coin-Battery-Socket-Holder-/300562748027?pt=US_Single_Use_Batteries&hash=item45faef927b
Here's 10 for $2.80, or at 28c a piece. Cheap cheap.

>> No.622245

>>622215
>>622237
Thanks. Definitely a better solution than the temporary fix I have using tape

>> No.622354

Mask roms will last hundreds of years (most common cartridge type).
Eeproms or flash will last tens of years (IIRC at least one handheld console uses flash).
CDROMs and single layer DVDs will last hundreds of years.
Double layer DVDs might last tens of years depending on storage conditions and the quality of the glue.
CDRs and DVDRs will last ones of years to tens of years depending on quality.

>> No.622378

>>618279
yes there is a thing you put nes and snes carts into and it makes them into a rom over usb

>> No.622404
File: 27 KB, 250x309, mugabe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
622404

Clearly the only true solution is to copy down the source code for your games and savedata into an archival quality ledger, with each page individually laminated so the vidya will survive for millenia

>> No.622417

ITT : Paranoia

my human body will be dirt before my cartridges start to decay

>> No.622458
File: 68 KB, 800x542, stone tablets are back in disc form.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
622458

>>622354

Sup.

>> No.622483

>>622354
0/10

>> No.622583

>>622458
Rev'up those backups I say