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Let's have a nice shoot em up thread
Is Raiden Fighters really the first game with grazing? Are there any other early examples or "prototypes"?
>>6176284Am I just fucking bad or is Strikers 1945 II fuckin hard? I can get about two stages in without dying on normal. I do forget to use my bombs constantly though.
Why did the dadcore thread get deleted, it was comfy.
>>6176284i booted up gunbird 2 because i remember liking the game as a kid. jesus christ it's hard as fuck.
>>6176358It's not easy, Psikyo games require pretty strict routing you won't get far if you don't plan ahead and just try to wing it. Stage 3-4 are where the bullet speed and pattern density start ramping up, start playing more consciously.
>>6176386Hardest first loop 1cc in the entire Psikyo library, worth it though, awesome game. Tavia makes some patterns easier since her melee erases bullets
I don't hate Psikyo, but there is something off putting about the graphics of their games. They feel too smooth or something, I can't quite put my finger on it. Anyone else feel like this?
>>6176395They are pre rendered CGI with very dull colors and muddy textures, I think they are unappealing too. Music is mostly boring too, they really survive on the strength of their gameplay.
>>6176395>>6176395>Anyone else feel like this?No, they look fine to me.>>6176396>dull muddy colorsNot really, you sound very biased that's all. Which game(s) filtered you? You should give them another try.
>>6176475I love Psikyo games, just not their visuals or sound. Gunbird 2 is an exception, its more vibrant and cartoony, their non pre rendered and full 3D games look better too for different reasons
>>6176284Stop spamming the board with this nonsense. There's very little to discuss in this dead genre. You don't need more than one thread a month.
>>6176485Stay mad jarpig kun
>>6176485>half or more of the catalog is Final Fantasy threads? No problem here.>one shmup thread? REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
*kills shmup thread*
>>6176517Zoomakus were a mistake.
>>6176485I make a single thread about shmups, an arcade heavy genre in the RETRO board and it's spamming?
Is Shienryu any good? Never heard of it
Anybody playing ESP Ra De Psi? It's /vr/ but was Arcade only previously, is now on NS/PS4. Would recommend
>>6176363mods remove shmup threads all the time like this
>>6176485mad that after reporting this thread too it didn't get deleted yet?
STG and Super Megaforce all day erry day
>>6176710>Is Shienryu any good?NO.
What are you practising bros? I'm learning a 1cc in Blazing Star and playing Soukyugurentai for fun
>>6176750If anything should be deleted, it's that garbage doom thread.
>>6176726it's not on western eshop
>>6177117Will it eventually be on NA? I don't want to fuck with a jap account for one game, even one that's so hyped up
Darius is my favorite shmup series. I also like R-Type, Einhander and Thunder Force, but there's something about Darius.
>>6177060At least it's just 1 thread instead of the dozens of RPG ones eating up the board's space.
>>6177138The aesthetics are really cool to me. I like the weird techno sea life thing it has going on
>>6176389Yeah I'm slowly getting better but shits hard. I do really like the charge/magic attack mechanic psikyo games have. Shooting a big missile at the right time and killing a bosses drones feels really good
Just started playing pic related on xbox via the taito legends 2 anthology. Any tips? I have been keeping the grid weapons in front to soak up bullets but I feel like there is more to it than that. Its easy to feel like you are protected but then get sniped from the side. Whats the best ship to play? I really like the B2 but its slow and seems to have a bigger hitbox.Taito Legends 2 also has darius gaiden fyi.
>>6177138Do you like the new(ish) one? I like that it has Space Harrier in it, if you pay money
What's a good shump to get my first 1cc at, something not ball busting.
>>6177506Batsugun Special Version's first loopBest starting point into arcade shmups, will teach general skills for many stylesFun, good presentation tooPick ship B and remember that you get a 1 hit shield that doesn't stack every time the exp bar fills.
>>6176748trannyjanny gotta make more room for RPG threads after all
What are some shmups with unique mechanics? I tried X-Multiply on a whim the other day and thought it was really cool.
>>6176897He got btfo by its rank system. Or he's a shitter that doesn't like classic checkpoint shooters.
>>6177506Start with the Grads.
>>6177526Deathsmiles - R-Type like bullet blocking options that can be rotated in 360 directionsEspgaluda - slow-moMars Matrix - bullet reflectingIkaruga - polarity and color chaining systemGuwange - you control the main character and a spirit that slows down/cancels bullets at oncePsyvariar - you buzz bullets to get level ups and invincibility frames, flips the risk vs reward of shmups on its head and gets you to dive into big clusters of bulletsRevolver 360 - ship serves as a crosshair, can rotate the areaTheres way more
>>6177526Dogyuun: has a very fun speed module. Once you grab this power-up, you can hold a button to move extremely fast, whenever you want. It lasts forever until you die or decide to get the bomb module. You can do sick moves like leaving it, grab a bomb module, using a bomb and then re-grabbing the dash module. Also, the game has interesting weaponry: two of the possible shots are homing ones, but one prioritizes air enemies and the other ground enemies.Vasara 2: A shmup where the best option isn't to shoot most of the time, but rather charge a melee attack that destroys most bullets (except ones that are color coded) that you can use constantly.Shippu Mahou Daisakisen: A shmup/racing hybrid. To play it fully, you have to place well at the end of each stage. You go faster by being as much to the top of the screen as possible, and by not shooting but holding a button. So there's a balance between that and the safer, play from behind and shoot enemies approach that you'd naturally take.Zero Gunner 2: You can shoot in all directions by turning around, and the game takes advantage of this in its level design. It plays better than it sounds (you can hold any given shooting angle you want).
>>6177535>gay elvesThis just turns me on, how is it an insult
>>6177590>>6177571Thanks anons, I'll look into some of those.
>>6177520This is fun, thanks anon.
>>6177606Glad you enjoyed it, it's usually a successful recommendation to noobies. Easy but fun.The game also provides gradually higher level play if you decide to keep playing it after the first loop clear; you can clear up to 4 loops, which is a medium-level achievement and after that you can try getting the score as high as possible to the point it no longer increases, which is an advanced achievement.
tfw I'll never be a Japanese kid in the 90's with a Super-CD and a Sega Saturn I was stuck with SNES and the only shooter I had on it was Phalanx because my mom thought the cover was hilarious
Some of these were in arcades and or have better ports on newer consoles but most of them are unique to the TurboGrafx CD/PC Engine CD. Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder are my favorites. Great music.
>>6177526Spriggan Mk2, Radiant Silvergun, Brave Blade, Chaos Field: melee close-ranged weaponry.
how can anyone play daifukkatsu? I've 1cc'd daioujou first loop and am working on OG DDP but fuck daifukkatsu makes me feel like I'm gonna have a seizure, I can't fucking see anything. that 3d rendered style in shmups was a mistake, I can give mushihimesama a tentative pass on it because it's fun and comfy and I can actually see what's killing me l
>>6178078+ Gunbird 1 and 2
M2 needs to make a console port of this game. It's tragic that it's never been released outside of arcades.
>>6178196Possibly with a minimalist arrange that fixes excessive milking like the latest ESPRADE port.
>>6178196Never cared much for Raizing's jankshit, myself.
>>6176580Zoomer + Danmaku, aka underage fags who only play Cave or Cave-like (2hu, CCWI, etc.) shmups and shit on any other style of shmup, like that guy who was complaining about Tatsujin Ou in the dadcore thread.
Lads what are some shmups with weapons you can aim?
>>6178279One thing is to dislike a game for having some flaws, another is to shit on shmups that have stylistical differences to the particular style one prefers.>bomb doesn't make me totally invincible nor destroys all enemies on screen, therefore bad game!What a moron.>>6178313Hyper Duel comes to mind.
>>6178279>>6178323You are both simpletons. I don't dislike old school shmups (though in some aspects they are worse generally) or even Toaplan games, just Tatsujin Oh which is a very dull game. The bomb was just a minor example of jank, the bigger issues are things like the terrible pacing and length which funnily enough the other guy acknowledged though characterized differently.
>>6178313Cybattler, Gun.Smoke, Rolling Gunner
>>6178338The "terrible pacing" meme was already debunked, go play again and notice that those pauses you notice are just substages.Go play Vimana if you actually want to see a dull Toaplan game.The loop is a bit long but it isn't game breaking. The game doesn't repeat enemies from previous sections all the way to the end. It stays fresh.
>>6178352Where the fuck was it "debunked"? Saying that the levels are split into chunks with popcorns in between changes literally nothing because those sections are still there. Vimana is actual trash that's not even worth testing, Tatsujin Ou has redeeming qualities
>>6178360What's the issue with that approach? The game is very hard, if it didn't have any parts to breathe it'd become unreasonable. Other shmups simply let you pause for a bit between stages, here it's different, everything is connected and it goes for this instead.You'd notice this and thank the less intense parts if you actually played and tried to beat the game, it's actually great pacing. You can't just go all in 100% of the time when a game is meant to be played for as long as possible (see how stuff clicks? long loop, infinite game, pacing for that).Are you going to complain next about Gradius stage transitions for having popcorn spam?
>>6178379damn dad schooling the zoomie hard
>>6178243please explain how it's jankshit? You sound like a shitposting retard.
>>6178379I reject your assumption that players necessarily need breaks, this is the kind of shit that leads to cinematic pacing in modern games. Psikyo games are hard and they have next to no room to breathe, very short loops and are satisfying to play. Tatsujin Ou being hard in some sections doesn't make its length or filler-ridden pacing better, it makes it worse because you're going to replay these sections that you've not only mastered but that didn't even pose too much of a challenge to begin with a lot, and since there is no scoring depth, there's nothing to do there at all but wait until the screen scrolls. Shmups that let you pause between stages are much better because it gives you choice over how much you want to wait without harming the pacing at all, and these sections aren't as rare as you're implying either.
Who is shitposting who
>>6178397can't even reply to my post properly. Thanks for proving me right tard.
>>6178404? I'm not that guy you were arguing with, you're fucking delusional
>>6178395>I reject your assumption that players necessarily need breaksPoser detected, you can't just play at your 100% without a single brief pause for too long. See Gus, he pauses between each Futari Ultra stage, which are only a few minutes long.>this is the kind of shit that leads to cinematic pacing in modern gamesWhat a leap of logic eh>Psikyo games are hard and they have next to no room to breatheYes, they give you a pause after every stage, these are 2 minute chunks.>Tatsujin Ou being hard in some sections doesn't make its length or filler-ridden pacing better, it makes it worse because you're going to replay these sections that you've not only mastered but that didn't even pose too much of a challenge to begin with a lotPost yourself playing through the early parts blind with no problem.>no scoring depthLess important because the game is hard. Even something as early as the first boss needs a very particular and tense method to safely destroy for survival.>Shmups that let you pause between stages are much better because it gives you choice over how much you want to wait without harming the pacing at all, and these sections aren't as rare as you're implying either.This is fair and what you should have said from the beginning, instead of just shitting on the game. But those areas come as often as pauses usually come in shmups (2-3 minute chunks. It's up to preference, this gives Tatsujin Ou a more organic feeling, going between hard bits connected by relatively easier ones to calm your nerves, with the game getting harder and harder until it hits its peak at the last chunk of stage 4 with its boss -> the first chunk of stage 5, until the end. After this the game goes much more intense as a whole.
>>6176748It's fine as long as you guys don't chimp out and start posting stale bait meme garbage, you wanna talk about SHMUPs, talk about SHMUPS without being fucking idiots about it.
>>6178426If this were the case they'd remove posts, not the whole thread. Face it, there's an anti-shmup agenda around. As soon as there's activity there's a nuke.
The real shoot em up is going to your school
>>6178421>What a leap of logic ehIt's not, what you are proposing that players HAVE to take breaks and this must lead into level design, the exact same mentality that informs modern game design. If the intention was truly to give the player breaks then there are much better ways to go about it, as Cave has shown.>Post yourself playing through the early parts blind with no problem.Define early parts. I can casually float through waiting for certain enemies or bosses to show up in the first level. The game undoubtedly has very hard parts, their existence doesn't mean that the game overall is well paced though.>Less important because the game is hard.No, "hard" isn't monolithic, a game can be hard in countless ways. What scoring does is add variable diffculty to all parts of the game, what Tatsujin has is very brutal sudden spikes of difficulty and a bunch of down time in between. Scoring spreads out a game's difficulty more evenly instead of letting it oscillate between next to no difficulty and fast patterns that easily insta kill you.
>>6178432Some threads start off so badly that they're not worth salvaging. This one is fine. The shitposts have been trimmed.
>>6178449Players do need some breaks. Typically, arcade games give you some optional brief pauses. What Tatsujin Ou and some other hard arcades tried to accomplish was to have a game that never stopped while still being reasonable to the player. Optional pauses are neat but this offers some advantages, such as never really disconnecting from the game. Overall, I'm just trying to show you that the game is no worse off for choosing to do this.What's funny is that the game does have some flaws but they only show up once you really start playing so someone like you can only complain that the game doesn't copy everything from a particular mold of shmup.>as Cave has shownFucking fanboys, shmups with pauses between stages was done waaaaayyyy before Cave. You REALLY outed yourself here m8.Maybe you didn't notice but that "first level" is actually quite long, like 7 minutes. Some of the pauses come right before midbosses, which is normal (Cave does the same!). Others, between substages. I must insist, play the game again with an open mind after considering this.Let me explain the last part: what I mean is that if the game is hard for survival, there's less need to rely on complex scoring to have fun replaying the game. Take DonPachi, that game is a snoozefest for survival until stage 1-4, it relies completely on chaining to stay interesting. Tatsujin Ou doesn't have chaining but survival itself is harder so tension shows up early.You mentioned Psikyo earlier and they're a perfect example of this, the games are quite straightforward scoring-wise but manage to be fun due to challenging survival. Hence, them being hard makes them not need scoring depth as much.
>>6178395small breaks are structurally important though. you wouldn't listen to a song that is 100% climax all the time would you? (actually there's a time and place for that approach but I think it's inherently self-limiting, e.g. there's only so much depth one can communicate with harsh noise wall type music and whatever the shmup equivalent would be). they don't necessarily need to be silences (to extend the analogy) but dips in the intensity clears the palate for further increases.
>>6178474>Players do need some breaks. Players can take breaks on their own, a game's job is to just provide them with the means. Besides, if you believe this wouldn't you be against infinite loops on principle seeing as how the whole challenge is wearing down the player through endurance.A hard game doesn't need as much scoring depth yes, but that only applies when the game is consistently hard, when the pacing is good Psikyo games require strict routes, have frequent spawns and generally a lot going on at all times without giving you moments to rest, and they still have room for additional challenge from things like coin chaining despite this and randomized early stages for what it's worth. Tatsujin is best described as stop and start, it's either bursts of difficulty or stretches of nothing going on with little in between.But fine, I'll play it again with a fresh mind, if nothing else at least I'll get examples.
create a shmup thread on /jp/ where you can have a thread hopefully with out reddit memes and shitposting.
>>6178514But /jp/ is filled with normalfags
>>6178498I appreciate your effort but using different mediums as analogies like this doesn't really work.It's as simple as the fact that you need to cool down slightly after every few minutes of pure intensity to be able to perform consistently. The guy we're talking with is probably a noobie and doesn't understand these concepts very well yet.>>6178503Cool. But I must insist, Psikyo has pauses like that. If you compare TO chunks with Psikyo ones, you'll see that the length is similar. TO simply connects it all together with less intense sections. Consider those "spikes" the real stages, and the other things just transitions.Your infinite looping thing doesn't make sense, players need small breaks here and there, that has nothing to do with a game never ending.Just imagine a shmup that was 30 minutes of Futari Ultra boss patterns. It'd be overwhelming to the player. That's what I mean with breaks.
>>6178519uninterrupted 30 minutes of Futari Ultra boss patterns btw not even the pause you get in the real game when you go to a different phase of the boss. MAN THE GAME IS SUCH STOP AND GO, WHAT GIVES!
>>6178498Sort of, those kinds of minor dynamics are necessary and unavoidable but arcade games do change things. Those small relaxed segments do eventually turn into silence after so many repeated plays, and the games are played in short bursts. Because games are interactive, there is also the option to let the player create their own dynamics, either through end stage screen breaks, or through systems like scoring that let the player control intensity to some extent.
>>6178527lol goes to show the lengths that Cave fanboys will go to just to defend what they're used to at the expense of different shmups
>>6178530Let's be real for a moment, how new are you?
>>6178535Not at all, I know exactly how these games are played, it's why I generally prefer newer games with deeper scoring systems, single loops and tighter pacing. The thought of restarting a bunch of Tatsujin Ou runs in an actual arcade seems utterly miserable to me, save states are the only reason I'm willing to give it another shot.
>>6178539I see. Tatsujin Ou is actually relatively popular in Japanese centers, you can see some multilooping gods chilling with the game. I'm OK with you heavily preferring tighter shmups, just don't assume these are bad either.
>>6178547The original convo was about reasons why someone should play Mushihimesama 1.5 over Tatsujin Ou, so I named some, if you prefer it that's your business. Generally I don't like shitting on other shmups because you know who does that enough as is but an argument's an argument.
I got to the final boss in Mushihemesama Original twice on 1 credit today. It's only time I get the clear. Also fuck stage 3.
It's good don't get me wrong but why is my hitbox so big? also what the fuck is a garegga?
>>6178684Maybe this will help you.
>>6178684>garegga>big hitboxdanmakuck detected
Not even a hundred posts in yet and the /shmupg/ays have already reduced it to a smouldering shitposting ruin.
Sonic Wings Special is my favorite game in this genre. I love cast of characters, the nice palette, and the ship diversity. I also like that it is challenging but not insanely hard like some other shoot em ups I've tried. Based on that knowledge what other games do you guys think I'd like? I want to play more shmups. I know basically nothing about this genre.
>>6178687>detailed gameplay discussion>shitpostingyeah back to namedropping games until thread hits page 10>>6178690try Sonic Wings 3, it's also on the easier side and for obvious reasons it's close to that game in the elements that you like about it.
>>6178690P S I K Y O
>>6178692all of their games except for Sengoku Ace are ballbustingly hard so not the best recommendation for that anonmaybe he can play them with the easier modes found on console ports
>>6177138I hate Darius
>>6178530I actually really appreciate that response, player's ability to have a certain amount of control over the dynamics isn't something that occurred to me.
>>6178692>>6178691Thanks anons. >>6178696I don't mind a challenge if the presentation grips me and there's not really a risk to me leaving my comfort zone and at least trying these games on MAME. I played Sonic Wings Special on Vita so much I can get decently far on one credit but I have never 1 credit cleared or really attempted to I am a casual player in this genre.
Finally found the shoot em up i played all the time as a kid. Raptor: Call of the Shadows. Definitely installing and beating this tomorrow.
>>6178696True, Sengoku Ace and Gunbird 1 should be good though, or DC port of Gunbird 2
>>6178717Gunbird 1's second loop is nuts
>>6178726He can worry about second loops once he gets the experience, 1-ALL is a good milestone
>>6178692>literally cropped out the big beefy dude wearing nothing but a fundoshiwhy so insecure, anon?
>shump thread>everyone is steaming madnever change
>>6178387Their pre-Fagawa games have a terrible power-up system that carried over from the Compile days, and their Fagawa-era games have bullshit rank systems which make no-miss runs literally impossible, not to mention the extreme RNG which usually kills runs when you're trying to score.
>>6178648Mooshy Original is blind 1cc tier, step it up lad.
>>6178886Not if youre new or bad
>>6178692>no naked dolphin
>>6178872>hey guys im new to shmups give me some recs>standard lively 4chan discussion on danmaku vs traditional>people just saying "this is my favourite">dariuschads chiming in about their space fish>people giving legit advice on how to approach the genreNo you're right people are STEAMING
>>6178910>dolphinWhy would he be in Psikyo's games??
>>6178914Isn't there a dolphin in Sonic Wings?
>>6178916Thats not Psikyo, their games would never have music that good
>>6178886No one is inherently good at shmup, retard.
>>6178942Jaimers proves you wrong.
Are there any good PS2 shmups?
>>6178950Gradius V and Psyvariar
>>6178950Not really. The R-Type entry was terrible, Gradius was ruined by Trashure, and the Thunder Force entry was disappointing also.
>>6178948Why do you think in extremes? Jaimers has been playing shmups for a long time. Even he wasn't good at shmups when he started.
Thoughts on the M2 shmups? Are they good entry level stuff?
>>6178976They are very good for beginners. They have added easy modes.
>>6178976Default arcade difficulty is quite high but they have some kind of novice modes. Ketsui deathtiny mode is supposedly really good and beginner friendly
>>6178187You play DFK for a while and then get bulletwheeled. Every run ends the same, those motherfucking bulletwheels. I'm told practising them alone for a while helps.
>>6178313Biohazard Battle is my favourite for this, unless you're using the yellow frontfiring chain shot or the homing. Each ship has its own weapon loadouts - usually just a green, blue, red and yellow, with blue, red and yellow having variants - slow, powerful bombs or 8 way for blue, bouncy rings or homing for red, vulcan or chain laser for yellow. Green is always a spread which looks weak but is nicely useful as a shotgun at close range. Your weapon pod always aims opposite your last movement which I found tough as a kid, but moving back keeps your fire focused forward, and moving wavy lets you spray around if you need zako control. It's pretty perfect.
>>6178875>no-miss runs literally impossiblethis is fake>extreme RNG which usually kills runs when you're trying to score.however, this is legit
Is Battle Garegga not worth playing?
>>6178323>>6178345>>6179225Thanks for the suggestions, these look really cool. Gonna try em out
I like this thread. You're alright /vr/. I am the Sonic Wings fan, I did some research into Psikyo based on your recommendations and found out that the studio was founded by former Video System devs that worked on Sonic Wings. Definitely going to play their games now.
>>6179517Have fun anon, they are pretty hard
>>6179517They are very fun games just kinda hard to get into for noobies due to how hard they eventually get.
>>6179541>>6179545I will do my best.I'm sure I will have to credit feed hard to practice but if the games are fun I will definitely challenge myself by aiming for limited credit runs in the future. I think first loop describes the first playthrough before the difficulty spikes, right? That's what I will practice.
>>6179569Credit feeding isnt a good idea because the games have rank and get significantly easier if you die, save states are extremely effective though. Also first loop just means beating all the stages and final boss once, if you beat the games they loop and becomes much harder. If you 1cc that harder loop thats a 2-ALL
>>6179569Psikyo games repeat the same stages but (way) harder for the second round. However, difficulty increases quite a bit even during the first round. You'll need to memorize and execute well to clear even the first.to add to this >>6179581several Psikyo games even send you back to the start of the stage if you continue, particularly the Japanese versions.
>>6179581>the games have rank and get significantly easier if you dieThat I didn't know, but it definitely makes sense. I remember when I was practicing Sonic Wings dying and using a credit refilled your bombs and usually spawned in a max power up which felt like cheating but I was playing a console port on hardware so I couldn't save state. Thank you again for the advice. I will use save states instead of free play/infinite credits then.
>>6178956Why is Final so bad? Are you a fan of Rtype in general? Just curious. I bought it but havent dove into it yet.
>>6179593It's not just the power ups, the bullet patterns themselves get slower and less dense and bosses get less HP, in rare cases they change so much that they require different dodging strategies. Savestates keep it consistent and are a better tool for learning anyway
>>6179618Many don't know this, but Psikyo games have an intricate stage select mode you can access, which makes practicing with original hardware more doable.
Sengoku Blade is horizontal, I didn't know that. It seems fun though and I like the characters and visuals. Managed to beat the first two stages without dying playing as the large breasted girl so maybe there is hope for me yet. I died early on stage 3 and forgot to save state beforehand so I will restart but yeah I think I can do this with practice. Time to play, goodbye /vr/.
>>6179628Through service mode. Look it up>>6179641And that girl is one of the weaker characters. Have fun
>>6179287It's worth a 1cc, but I wouldn't seriously play it for score.
>>6178684anyone know the differences between version Types 1 and 2?
>>6179287>not worth playingwhat youtuber said that?
>>6179798>what youtuber said that?sick burn
>>6179796Type 2 casualizes the game by turning the bullets into bright orange balls like Batrider's.
>>6179806Does it not have any other differences? Because thats based af ngl
>>6179810There are more like not being able to change option formations, but each ship having a unique one instead.
>>6179789absolutely based and redpilled, 100% the truth that secondary posers don't want to hear
I love the way it move the character in Guwange and how it play(my only nitpick is the concentrate shoot), is there some Shoot em up/danmaku similar?
>>6179789who is that shmufag? and why should I care?
>>6179904it's a very unique game so no>>6179926don't worry about the person, but about the message
>>6179904You might like Giga Wang if you enjoy Goo Wang.
>>6179789What I love is when a noob mentions struggling with a part and a super player casually talks about how its not really that difficult.
>>6179954Noobs don't complain about legit hard parts because they don't reach those, they get filtered on the easy parts, that's why they are noobs and have the scrub mentality, always looking for an excuse and reason to drop a game. They complain for the sake of complaining and want others to agree with them, they rarely take strategic advice and get offended when it's offered because you are implicitly telling them to try harder, and they hate that.
>>6179983THE truthscrubs, back to elf
>>6179983> beginner has problems and asks for help> good players just casually talk about how its not difficult> beginner quits because instead of getting help they get shit on even though difficulty is relative and it IS difficult to them at their skill level> blame beginner and not super player who could have just offered some simple advice and helped the beginner get better and enjoy the genreYou guys are the exact reason people leave the genre.
>>6179983Sounds like bullshit desu, never seen anyone get offended at strategic advice
>>6180204>getting scared off by a little elitismThey weren't cut out for shumps anyways.
>>6180285yep, back to elf
So hold on, you can't at once complain about n00bs not asking for advice and sharing tips but at the same time shitting on them saying the parts are easy etc. when they ask for advice. At best they'll just stop asking and discussing the games and hit up farm strategy guides, at worst they'll pull a bitch move and quit the genre. You can't at once have elitism and patronizing attitudes but then turn around and complain about people not wanting to talk about shmups. If they're acting like a bitch after being met with normal advice then sure fuck em but I don't see that happening outside of a certain non-scrub German player
>>6180308>If they're acting like a bitch after being met with normal advicehint: this is what actually happens
>>6180317It only happens if a. the player is arrogant or when you're acting like a condescending cretin when giving that advice, the problem there is the condescension not the advice. I've been giving advice to noobs for years and have never run into this problem because I don't treat them like dribbling morons unless they're being hostile
>>6180285>elitismThis brings up a tertiary point. A lot of these elitist will put the shit out there that you need a PCB/CRT/Stick/ect to play. Some dont like sticks, cant afford pcbs, or dont have space for CRTs. Some make things out like you cant even play without this stuff. If you have 1 frame of lag too many you fliptables.gif. Some go so far as to act like a score isnt legit if it isnt done on a PCB. This puts a lot of newcomers off. The community should be pushing whatever means gets people playing. Are there better ways then some? Sure, but people can migrate to those better ways as they progress.
>>6180371PCB/hardware elitists are usually bitter collector shitters trying to justify their purchase, don't fall for their tricks. Input lag autists are based and redpilled
>>6179789This inspired me to stop being a casual in shmups.
>>6179267>this is fakepost your deathless clear then
What do you think is the best M2 game? I'm wanting to get either Dangun or Garegga
>>6178187I don't think its the 3D rendered style, it's the fuck load of visual effects on the screen. I felt the same way about Saidaioujou when it came out, but the games look has recently grown on me.
>>6179789>banana is now going through a quarter life crisislmao
>>6180614Garegga has a lot of QoL improvements that you can't get elsewhere. Dangun you can play just fine via MAME.
>>6178886if you didn't blind 1cc it yourself this is such a little bitch statement
>>6180627yeah you're right, the 3D rendered style is still not something I'm fond of looking at but I don't think it messes with my play too much, it's definitely the migraine inducing visual effects
>>6177693Sapphire and Download 2 are also really good.
HEY POOR PLAYER
>>6179789The people who actually play touhou games are much more firendly and help each other out. While on the Arcade side everyone just name drops games and bitches about old shmups, cave, anime girls. Arcade shmup players are the true secondaries.
>>6181048Alternate reality take
>>6177654Nothing is stopping you from buying a used Saturn and slapping a modchip in it, or you know just using MAME or MednafenDon't let your dreams be dreams anon
>>6180204I've seen it on shmup forums.>scrub 1: I've been playing this game for years and can't get past stage 2! It should be made easier!>scrub 2: wow are you me?! Finally someone said it! I barely make it past stage 1! This game is impossible!>actual player: what? First 3 stages shouldn't be that hard, have you tried X, Y, Z? It didn't taken me long to figure it out and I'm new. Don't do Y, it'll kill your run.>scrub 3: wow can't believe you're flexing and scaring off our players, typical elitism>scrub 1: big yikes, have YOU beaten those stages? >actual player: yes, try what I suggested.>scrub 2: hey that actually makes sense in theory, I do make mistake Y often...>scrub 1: nah I don't have the game anymore and I'll just stick to my original beliefs.>scrub 3: elitism is killing this genre!
>>6181048I tried touhou FDF and wanted to ask a question about it. I go to the touchy general on vg, 500 posts, maybe 5 were gameplay related, 495 were asking about waifu tiers and sharing ugly fan art and "cunny" pics.
>>6181094Important point you made here is the difference between a newbie and a scrub A newbie is just anyone who is newA scrub is someone who may not even be new, but who has a terrible anti-growth mindset
>>6181102>touchyTouhou, freaken auto correct
>>6181102What the hell were you expecting asking secondaries about games?
>>6176284So, aside from Sonic Wings on my SNES, I almost never played any shoot 'em ups and I want to get into it. Can you guys recommend me something not as hard and good to start? Prefereable arcade or 16-bit.
>>6181175Try Sonic Wings again, it's one of the easier vertical series. Sonic Wings Special for Saturn/PS1 is like a best of compilation with most of the cast playable and enemies and bosses from the first 3 games.
>>6181104People sometimes distinguish between the two that way, but in practice scrub is often just used for anybody who's bad at a game regardless of why.
are these shooters supposed to be played on stick?
>>6181198>are arcade games meant to be played with arcade equipment Hmmm
>>6181198I use a saturn model 2 controller personally. I own a jap arcade stick with arcade parts and all and prefer a good dpad for shooters. Arcade sticks are for fighting games.
I just want to 1-all R-Type before I give up shmups forever but dammit I just can't do it
>>6181271What's wrecking you? It's not a hard game to 1-ALL but very frustrating
>>6181271>give up shmups foreverWhy?
I wish for a 3-all X-Type. Of course only if it's on the model 2 consoles.
>>6180204>>6181094>>6181271>What's wrecking you? It's not a hard game to 1-ALL but very frustrating
>>6181363>What's wrecking you?Can that guy be any more clear that he's asking the R-Type guy for more specific advice?
>>6181363Stop getting offended on behalf of others
>>6181305to become a full-time jarpig of course
>>6181305>What's wrecking you?Right now the whiskey. More generally, the fact that I can't recover starting in Stage 6 or so. Also is there a trick to that trash compactor faggot, I usually need him to show his eye three times before I kill him...Really I can do every part of the game at least 50% of the time, just not the whole thing at once.>>6181324At the rate I'm going I'll probably die of old age before I can do R-Type 2>>6181363I mean I've had people on here flat-out tell me I'm a retard who's responsible for single-handedly ruining video games when I ask for help, not even mad
>>6181379who's this cute girl?
>>6181383>CutePlease raise your standards anon
>>6181379>be decent at Psikyo and Seibu games>decide to throw it all away by taking HRT, making you shit at games and resort to PokemonShame, desu.
>>6181382>Also is there a trick to that trash compactor faggotYes there is a safe spot right here just stay there and shoot charge shots. Almost all the bosses have safe spots, sometimes multiple and the entirety of stage 5 can be beaten by just staying in the top or bottom corner, forget which
>>6180293my favorite game company
>>6181421Looks like raizing
>>6181363See>>6179954I'm just saying, telling someone who is obviously facing something that is difficult to them that its not really that difficult isnt helping. Thats like a brain surgeon telling someone operating on a brain isnt really that difficult. It is unless you have developed the skill to do so through practice and education. Most responses like that usually just end in "get gud".
>>6181949>I'm just saying, telling someone who is obviously facing something that is difficult to them that its not really that difficult isnt helping.It helps me actually. Because it lets me know if I just suck, if I'm doing something wrong, or if that section is known to be very hard in itself maybe it has random elements or requires pixel-perfect execution. It lets me know if I'm blowing something out of proportion or if my complaint is legit. Lots of players give up games and give themselves mental blocks because their fellow scrubs just agree with them "oh yes omg it's so hard this section is impossible!!!"> Thats like a brain surgeon telling someone operating on a brain isnt really that difficult. It is unless you have developed the skill to do so through practice and education. Most responses like that usually just end in "get gudProblem is scrubs don't get to the brain surgery part, they are stuck at washing their hands and complaining about how difficult it is to put the gloves on.>git gutDude, that's a meme. Discussions don't just end there, experienced players might say that just to motivate you into asking more questions, to get more specific responses. Or if they see you have mental blocks and aren't willing to take advice they'll just say "git gud" as a form of fuck off and try harder. Some scrubs literally dont' want to hear that a section is DOABLE, they want yes-men to just agree that it's "BULLSHIT" so they can feel good about quitting the game, "its the game that's shit! not me!"etc
>>6181967>It helps me actually. Because it lets me know if I just suck, if I'm doing something wrong, or if that section is known to be very hard in itself maybe it has random elements or requires pixel-perfect execution. It lets me know if I'm blowing something out of proportion or if my complaint is legit.Exactly. Noob players need to know when a part is hard to them for now but not that hard actually, and just plain old hard. But of course they have to be insecure manginas that don't want to be humbled (which is the first step into getting better at these games: first recognize that it's not the game's fault, just that you suck).
>>6181967>>6181980Ok. Nevermind. Anyone in the scene long enough will see what im talking about. A genuine beginner mentions DDP being hard and some elitist, arrogant asshole says a DDP 2ALL isnt really that hard. A whiney bitch is a different story. Point is, just try to help those that want help and are willing to take advice. You cant bitch about people quiting while being major dicks to them at the same time.
>>6182072>and some elitist, arrogant asshole says a DDP 2ALL isnt really that hardthis is justified because there are clears that are notably harder such as DOJ WL 2ALL. DDP 2ALL is hard, not AS hard though.
>>6182084Wow. Are you just trolling?
>>6182115I'm not, DOJ WL is notably harder. Just ask any player that has tried or cleared both.On the famous Japanese difficulty wiki, DOJ WL is listed as 45 (the maximum rank there is), while DDP is listed as 39.
>>6182165>DOJ WL is notably harder.No shit, dumbass. But your saying if something is not the most difficult it cant be considered difficult by anyone. What a retard. I genuinely feel sorry for you.I still think your just shit posting. God I hope so.
>>6182192Yeah to a noob everything will be hard at first, but they must also be aware of the full spectrum of difficulty. In that spectrum, DDP 2ALL is hard, but still a ways off the hardest clears out there. And it's good that the new player is aware of this.This is not shitposting, I have no idea why you're acting so defensively. Notice how I did say that DDP 2ALL is still hard nonetheless, and the original quote was saying that it's "not that hard", which is objectively true when compared to other shmups.
>>6182192>>6182210clear example of experienced players having to walk on eggshells due to the noob being a mangina
>>6176284mods do your job
>>6182217based jarpig seething at seeing a shmup thread on page 1 instead of 10 RPGs
>>6182210No one is talking about comparing difficulty of the hardest games. The point was smug assholes being dicks by telling people DDP isnt really that hard and implying that a beginner just sucks because he cant clear one of the harder games in the genre. Then you chime in with "its not compared to THE HARDEST FUCKING GAME IN THE GENRE".
>>6182231>DDP isnt really that hardBecause it really isn't... We have to use the standard of all shmups, otherwise almost every shmup is hard to jarpigs that have never played a remotely hard game in their lives.Just like running for 5 minutes is hard for a fatass, that doesn't make it hard when compared to running competitions. It's easy, however the fatass is just terrible at running. It's hard for him, but not as a whole.I can tell that coping with this fact is hard for you though. Not everyone will cater to this relative difficulty bullshit just to make you feel better about sucking.
>>6182220lmao take ur drama trash to /vg/ where it belongs
>>6182254except mods literally remove shmup threads on /vr/ out of nowhere when they feel like it, just to impede growth or discussion
>>6182253But even on the standard of all shmups, DDP 2-ALL is on the higher end of the spectrum, right? Like on the wiki it's a 39 when the highest number is 45. It makes sense to say there are harder games and it's not really that hard in comparison to those games, but saying it's not challenging overall seems wrong.
>>6182258yep they just don't abuse it too much so that it becomes an issue that could be reported
>>6182260It makes sense because, even if the game IS hard, the gap between it and the hardest ones out there is notable.It's just like saying that a character is A tier instead of S tier. There's a gap, but it's still near the top.>but saying it's not challenging overall seems wrong.Not what was said, these are the expressions>not that hard>hard, but still a ways off the hardest clears out thereMaybe you read "not that hard" and you think people are calling it easy, but no, it's simply referring to the fact that it's more doable than other games out there.
>>6182276Yeah, that's fair then.
>>6182276this guy gets it, just like fighting game people will call an A tier "good, but not that good"
For survival DDP 2-ALL is one of the hardest shmups there is, very close to max.Only way you can argue DDP 2-ALL isn't hard, is if you add scoring achievements to the difficulty list. Because getting 700m in DDP would dwarf a simple 2-ALL for survival.
>>6182276Your autism is doing that thing again, fren.
>>6182276I was mostly responding to the exaggerated comparison of DDP 2-ALL with a fat guy running for 5 minutes, as if it's not really challenging in the grand scheme of things. There's harder clears out there, but not all that many.
For the record, experienced players will consider a game hard if it's around 30 on the list or higher. Then medium around the 20's, and easy (for an arcade shmup 1cc) below that.>>6182283Ask people that have played both and you'll see that they all agree on there being an undeniable jump between DDP and DOJ WL.But yes, DDP is firmly in the realm of hard. Anyone denying that is indeed trolling.>>6182292The quantity of harder clears matters less than the the jump in difficulty between the hardest and it.
>>6182292Yeah the comparison is exaggerated to make the analogy clearer.
>>6182303>>6182304Makes sense, got no problem with what you're saying then.
>>6182303shmups aren't hard because they are susceptible to memorization
>>6182323Wrong, some are hard because the execution requirements are tough even when you already know exactly what to do.Typical comment spewed by clueless people that have never tried to play the games.
>>6182323>playing music isn't hard because it's susceptible to memorizationthis is your brain on jarpigs
>>6182336>clueless people that have never tried to play the games
>>6182336>some are hard because the execution requirements are tough even when you already know exactly what to do. even metroid has some hard parts to do, but overall isn't hard because its the same thing every time
>>6182341>>playing music isn't hard because it's susceptible to memorizationcorrectmaking music is hard
>>6182353m8 if you think that Metroid games even come close to even some easy shmups relative to others, you're deluded as fuckExecution difficulty is a thing in shmups, this is why there's a phenomenon called run grinding: people that already know their route (i.e. exactly what they have to do to beat the game) but still have to attempt to beat the game dozens, hundreds of times before they can do it just because they need to practice all the hard parts.Execution challenge is exactly what makes shmups fun, you first learn how to beat the game, then try to replicate that in real time. The fun comes in the process of getting better at doing this, reaching further each time. Just like the fun of getting better at playing an instrument and songs.And more advanced players do this + scoring tricks to get more points.>>6182354post yourself playing this on guitar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oyhlad64-s
>>6182371>run grindingsounds more like endurance not hard>beat the game dozens, hundreds of times before they can do it just because they need to practice all the hard parts.so low-skill memorization routines. any man with normal vision can do.>post a guitar songWhy? There are 7 year old chinese kids that have memorized instruments and play them very well.
>>6182393Are there any single player games you'd call hard?
>>6182396Games that are not destroyed by memorization routines.
>>6182420Go, against the AI
>>6182393>sounds more like endurance not hardIt's not really endurance because there's no way to guarantee it'll ever happen (unlike grinding for experience points), you have to actually get good at executing. In fact, many give up because they can't seem to improve enough to clear.>beat the game dozens, hundreds of times before they can do it just because they need to practice all the hard parts.No, attempting to beat the game dozens or hundreds of times but still being unable to do it (say game over on stage 4 out of 5). I'm guessing this is mind boggling to you coming from shit like Metroid but it's real. If you don't believe me, pick up pretty much any shmup on MAME (for you, you'll have to replay even the easiest a bunch of times).
>>6182453This^^^^Memo is big but so is mechanical execution or dexterity also shmups have rng elements
what is the hardest retro shmup 1-all?
>>6182513Apparently, Argus. From what I've played, Tatsujin Ou or Same! Same! Same!.
>>6182596not even close m8 (though it's quite hard)
>>6182354The fuck do you think making music is, some divine secret art not available to mere mortals? It's all about learning patterns, seeing them in different contexts and then using those patterns to create your own music, its not intrinsically harder than learning to play an instrument.
>>6182443Thats more in the realm of humanly impossible mate since the best player got btfo. How about an action game?
>>6182453These niggas don't know that even the best players who played for thousands of hours struggle and die non-stop, some games just don't become easy, the higher end of shmups is full of examples of such games
>>6182680their little jarpig brains can't comprehend
>>6181949I said R-Type 1-ALL isn't hard because of the abundance of easy tricks that can get you past difficult parts like that safe spot, if someone's struggling either it's entirely down to mentality (they feel discouraged and frustrated because playing a game that forces restarts and guarantees no progress is new to them) or they are doing something wrong and need to re-examine their approach to learning the game. R-Type is very much a memory game, there are some sections that require precise movement and can't be cheesed in some way, but they are relatively few. Sometimes when people say a game is easy they mean that the problems the player is facing aren't going to last much or can be overcome with a change in their thinking.
>>6182707they are used to the concept of easy being that the game pretty much plays itself
>>6182717Yes, relative to that R-Type which requires conscious practice and effort does seem impossible but if you judge difficulty in such an absolute sense then it loses meaning, it HAS to be in the context of the genre or at the very least arcade games as a whole because they have a distinct gameplay style and a higher amount challenge on average.
>>6178648Well I did it today first try
>>6183168Same, I loaded up Dodonpachi DOJ for the first time and blind 1cced it.Fucking /shmupg/ faggots thinking their games are hard.No I'm not going to provide proof because it's just so easy, anyone can do it
>>618317I should have been more specific and said that I got the 1cc on my first attempt today after 7 hours of game time total.
>>6183171Mushi Original is a pretty easy game though m8
>>6183178Literally all shmups, as well as all videogames are easyI have the WR in about 20 games, after that I just stopped caring because it was so easy
>>6183184*hadI just broke your WRs this morning
>>6183185I just double broke no take backs your WR though
>>6183184Some shmups are easy, can be cleared after just a bit of practice or even blind. Mushi Original falls into this category (some practice).Sorry if this offended you because you weren't even able to do this before ragequitting the genre and going back to elf though. We shouldn't make fun of the disabled after all, and jarpigs are a fragile minority.
>>6183193>weren't ableBut I just broke every WR known to man? I would post proof but if the japs don't need to post proof I don't either
OK Mad Max
>namefag jarpig discord tranny dramait's all so tiresome
>>6183197What are you playing?
>>6183204Strikers 1945 2 Plus and MS XWhat are you playing?
>>6183206>Strikers 1945 2 PlusNice, a game that doesn't even exist, another one to add to the list of shit you pretended to have playedToo bad jarpig poser faggots like you can't be removed here
>>6183210Holy shit you retard you knew exactly what I meantNow what are you playing? You've yet to tell me
>>6183212You didn't tell me what you're really playing eitherhttps://streamable.com/opyav
>>6183216Except I did, yet more proof /vr/ just LARPs
>>6183221What's the hardest of the possible fourth bosses in Strikers Plus for you? Order them tier-list style and say why.
*crickets intensify*mmm... the smell of elf
>>6183231Haven't got up to there, getting filtered by stage 3
>>6183242based Mad Max filtered by stage 3 in every game even 1+ year laterit's time to drop elf m8 we've been telling you
>>6183253Still not sure what this namefag shit is, but you haven't posted anything you've played
>>6183258That game I linked, that's a recording I've uploadedYou playing dumb is always amusing, Mad Max
Play Psyvariar, buy Psyvariar, tell your friends, make Psyvariar 2 Delta a reality
>>6183271Informationpill me on Psyvariar
>>6183275Unique grazing based game where grazing fills up your exp meter which levels up your ship, giving you roughly a second of invincibility which you can use to graze even more bullets. You can often get huge level up chains where you use invincibility from one level up to quickly get another level up and dive into more bullets, with this it inverts the usual risk vs reward dynamic of shooters. But on top of that it changes the exp gain rates for boss fights and stages, so you will also have to do your fair share of dodging and enemy killing. The game has a lot of levels split into routes that you get access to based on your level, level ups also increase your shot damage and give you bombs which have a secondary use as a manual level up which gives you more options for scoring. The game can be one of the easiest shmups ever or reasonably hard depending on which route you earn by playing for score. It has a lot of boss milking but it's very fun, you are always juggling the exp bar to time it with dense patterns and reacting to the randomness which is all over the place. Great soundtrack, too.Medium Unit is the first game, it's the simplest one with the lowest skill ceiling only letting you graze bullets once, Revision is an updated re-release with new levels and mechanics, it lets you graze each bullet many times, and Delta from my understanding is a remix of Revision with different stage layouts and some boss changes but the same mechanics.
Is Dreamcast the ultimate home console for shooters?
Is the 360 version still the best way to play raiden fighters?
>JELLYBEEEANWhat did he mean by this?
>>6183431What happened to the other thread?
>>6183432What other thread?
>>6183436There was a thread with Raiden 2 and someone posted that image as well, but it got 404d
>>6183439mods just don't like shmup threads, they'll only leave a tiny space of their jarpig board to them
>>6183439No sense in having two threads talking about shoot em ups. This one is fine.
>>6183450But there's tons of JRPG and Castlevania threads up
>>6183439Maybe he deleted it himself after realizing this thread already existed.
>>6183439mods don't like shmups, they only let a tiny space for them on their jarpig board>>6183450OK trannyjanny
in dodonpachi, if i power up shots instead of lasers, does the laser still do more damage to bosses?
>>6183498yeslaser is better, pick that
>>6183515>>6183519getting mixed messages here
>>6183529advantages of shot type>more powerful shot, still less damage than laser>shot may cover more space, notable for ship C>shot powers down less when dyingadvantages of laser type>laser comes out more quickly>laser is wider>laser pierces through stuff>laser gives you a surrounding area that damages near your ship>you move faster while using your laser>laser powers down less when dyingyour choice
>Vapor Trail still not in my mailbox
I'm a relative shmup beginner and mushihimesama futanari's stage 3 is fucking my butt. I can get there with no bombs used or lives lost and then everything just goes to shit, I can only reach the midboss like 50% of the time. anyway thanks for reading my blog I'll keep save state practicing
>>6183535>Vapor Trail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyeZ2YgzE-Y
>>6183554My guess is you're playing too defensively and let the bugs corner you instead of getting closer to them and taking full advantage of the generous cancels. Being closer to enemies does more damage in nearly all shmups so for normal hp sponge enemies you want to hit the sweet spot of being close enough to do a lot of damage quickly but being far enough that you'll have time to react and dodge their patterns. Memorization hopes too obviously.
>>6183554>futari stage 3 is hardCorrect complaint. It is a wall for many new players. There are hidden bugs everywhere, there are lamps you need to cancel at the right time. The visibility is fucken shit in general. And the last section prior to the boss is very chaotic.And the stage 3 boss is one of the hardest in the game which will most likely require a planned bomb.Make a save state after the mid-boss and try to complete that part until you are comfortable. Watch some survival replays (ignore scoring replays that have insane rank increases and risky strats).
raiden 2 is legit hard, anyone who says otherwise should post their clear.
>>6183632For a new player it is fair to call it hard. It is a difficulty spike and harder than stage 4.
>>6177205Title sounds like another term for bug chaser
Why the fuck do I refuse to use bombs half the time.
>>6183642Panic bombs in the early stages are not aesthetic.
do retro danmakus like dondonpachi cause brain damage or do they attract those with pre-existing conditions?
>>6183746Why are you gossiping like a woman instead of playing or discussing shmups?
>>6183746queers need to be purged im tired of seeing fake girls trying to pretend they are real girls and getting mad and pissy when you ask them if they are a natural born girl and always giving that what does it matter response. it matters alot im not a queer you dumb faggot
>>6183746Where are they scores? More importantly, where are your scores?
Reminder it is one jarpig player who doesn't play shmups shitting up every single shmup thread with tranny talk. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the anti-hl autist either.
>>6183649All bombs are panic bombs. That's the whole point of the mechanic. Remind yourself that this is not some Cave trash.>>6183642It can't be a conscious decision. In most cases, when you need the bomb to survive, it's already late to press the button. Just like most things in sports, human reactions simply aren't fast enough. What our brain does to overcome its own speed limit is learn patterns and then react preemptively. It's literally the only way to physically react to stimuli faster than 100ms or so. In other words, making a conscious decision to shoot a bomb will almost never be possible. What you need to do is learn the game enough for your brain to predict dngerous situations and press the button preemptively. It does this and then rationalizes the reflex post-factum, congratulating itself on making the decision. Press pause and think carefully right after you've successfully used a bomb: it's obviously not a conscious decision in most cases.
>>6183750Im a plumber at work. On my way to see your mom, fix her pipes>>6182665plenty of retards can copy good music but have no chance at creating their own, too hard
>>6183765>All bombs are panic bombs. That's the whole point of the mechanic. Remind yourself that this is not some Cave trash.Intentional =/= Unintentional
>>6183770As I said, unless you're a scorewhore playing a danmaku kusoge, bombs exist as backup reflex lives in case you fuck up. It's basically a "recover from death" mechanic with limited charges.
>>6182354>>6182665>>6183767Clearly none of you are musicians. Playing music is in no way easier than composing. Interpretation is just as much of an artform as composition. That is why you know not just Bach and Beethoven but also Richter and Gould. Flat interpretation is on par with by-the-numbers composition in terms of difficulty and masterful interpretation is similarly on par with professional composition.
Redpill me on Garegga
>>6183789It's not unfun but aesthetics are boring as hell.
>>6183767>plenty of retards can copy good music but have no chance at creating their own, too hardThe fuck do you mean "have no chance", what do you think it's some kind of hidden secret anime technique that comes from an ancient bloodline of ninja warriors? They can't do it because they haven't trained to do it, obviously talent plays a role but it plays a role in everything, composition AND playing. And can be compensated for, you can approach songwriting analytically even if you don't have the sense for it. Furthermore, just because an individual is good at one thing but bad at another, that doesn't mean the thing they are good at it is easier than the thing they are bad at, it might just be a better fit for their particular talents or skills, or maybe they simply have more passion for it and put more time into it. Dumb cunt
>>6183794Dont try to reason with a retard obsesses with trannys
>>6183765>All bombs are panic bombs.Planned bombs aren't panic bombs
>>6183787creation is harder than repetition and imitation.you can train thousands of kids to be brilliant imitators. but not composers.kids can imitate very well but have zero chance of composing original pieces of timeless quality like Mozart or Chopin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUzC4eti1I
>>6183782>all bombs are panic bombs!>oh well except....Don't speak in incorrect absolutes, midwit.
>>6183805Creation is intelligent selective imitation, a tremendous amount of diligence, and a few incredibly lucky accidents. >>6183807>also bombs thrown from airplanes aren't panic bombs>also bob ombs aren't panicking>omg ur rooooooooonk
>>6183794Think of it like this, is it harder for an artist to repeat and play a great song he's already invented, or to create a different song, of similar high quality?Of course repetition is easier than innovation. only in a shmup thread is this confusing.>>6183813I don't know what your problem is and why you keep saying stupid shit.
>>6183819A better example is copying a good route versus creating the route. Shmup players aren't very bright so even that will cause argument.
>>6183819>is it harder for an artist to repeat and play a great song he's already invented, or to create a different song, of similar high quality?Extremely retarded point, I can make songs I am incapable of playing and will forever be incapable of playing in minutes and I can do it all day with no issues, and they won't even sound like incomprehensible atonal gibberish either. You should honestly consider suicide anon
>>6183823I mean, you could ask actual players what took them more effort, coming up with routes or actually executing them, or you could keep guessing like the dumb non-player you are
>>6183819>repetition is easier than innovationThat's a flat, overly simplistic view. With every repetition standards of quality and required complexity increase exponentially, so before long comes a point when repeating meaningfully is far harder than trying something entirely new.You evidently know nothing about the history of arts.
>>6183840No. Shmups are dead and buried, and you know it.
>>6183831>That's a flat, overly simplistic view.It's right though. >>6183830>I mean, you could ask actual players what took them more effort, coming up with routes or actually executing themObviously creating requires execution and repetition as well.You're not going to make a route without executing it over and over.Creation & execution > execution aloneEmbarrassing you're even debating this.
>>6183847>Obviously creating requires execution and repetition as well.No it doesn't you fucking dumb cunt LMAO, I just told you I can make music that I cannot perform, and will never be able to perform, people do it all the fucking time either on sheets or in DAW's you think a breakcore artist can just whip out a drumset and perfectly play the drum patterns they make? They're completely separate skills and cannot be reduced to some weird "execution present y/n" choice, this applies to games as well there are plenty of examples of people who can come up with good routes but can't execute them worth shit, the whole tool assisted category of runs is exactly this.
>>6183854> I just told you I can make music that I cannot performThis only proves that it might be easier for you to create than to perform. It's an anecdote. I can equally say I can recite a poem I don't understand. Therefore it's easier to repeat than to create.You're missing the point. When we talk about creation we include the process of execution as well. That's why a person who creates a route is doing something harder than someone who merely copies the route.That's why a musician who creates (and plays) his songs, a sculptor who sculpts a great statue is doing something harder than simply imitation and mimicry.You lost and no amount of name calling and atonal gibberish will save you.
>>6183847>>6183854You people obviously never composed music and probably never played it professionally either, so you really should stop yapping.Composition is a skill and, like all skills, it requires tremendous amounts of execution and repetition. That it's a different skill from performance doesn't somehow make it not a skill at all.
>>6183860>I can equally say I can recite a poem I don't understand. Therefore it's easier to repeat than to create.LOL you cock you just reiterated my point. I'm not claiming that one is easier than another, I judge them individually based on the specific thing being performed/created and appreciate both as impressive if they are hard enough. You on the other hand ARE making the claim that one is easier than the other, because you are a nincompoop.>When we talk about creation we include the process of execution as well.This is your gigantic cope after getting schooled, you don't even include it in this very post and it completely falls apart when applied to video games, the main topic of discussion once you look at tool assisted runs.
>>6183864You're misreading my posts anon, composition is ABSOLUTELY a skill, anyone saying otherwise is retarded, same as anyone who says that performing isn't a skill is retarded. Neither's intrinsically harder than the other, both can be developed separately though they do affect one another, and both can be insanely difficult and impressive.
>>6183868I always included execution within the process of creation. If you separate the two then you are comparing apples to oranges, which makes no sense.I said before that >>6183805>creation is harder than repetition and imitation.>you can train thousands of kids to be brilliant imitators. but not composers.And here >>6183819>Think of it like this, is it harder for an artist to repeat and play a great song he's already invented, or to create a different song, of similar high quality?Again. And again.You're missing the point. When we talk about creation we include the process of execution as well. That's why a person who creates a route is doing something harder than someone who merely copies the route.That's why a musician who creates (and plays) his songs, a sculptor who sculpts a great statue is doing something harder than simply imitation and mimicry.Cry more midwit.
>>6183871>That's why a person who creates a route is doing something harder than someone who merely copies the route.What about all those people who create routes but can't execute them??
>>618387299 times outta 100 creators are perform what they create in order to tweak it and edit it. The 1 off situation is an exception to the rule.Who the fuck makes routes they can't perform lol
>>6183871Your first post does not make the distinction at all you brainlet, your second post does but it's also very stupid. Let's drop the music comparison because at this point it's interchangeable and simply focus on games. Someone who comes up with a brand new route in an obscure shmup and executes it well is not necessarily better than someone who got a DOJ WR by copying replays, you would have to look at the difficulty of the routes and execution of the former and compare it with the latter, since skills aren't an on/off switch. Now, someone who comes up with brand new DOJ routes that are harder than current ones AND perfectly executes them will be better than the people that copy him and perfectly execute his routes, but that's completely fantasy and doesn't say anything meaningful.If I'm a midwit that makes you the absolute bottom of the barrel, completely incapable of even the most basic logical thinking. Must be why shmups filtered you so hard
>>6183854Now this is shitposting.
>>6183875Anyone who has ever made a TAS with new routes for starters. Most routes aren't the creation of any one player either they are the result of shared knowledge
>>6183878>Someone who comes up with a brand new route in an obscure shmup and executes it well is not necessarily better than someone who got a DOJ WR by copying replaysAnother unfair and janky comparison.First compare the same game, not different games.Second use the same standard.1. person A creates his own 3Billion DOJ route and gets 3billion.2. person B gets 3billion by copying the route.Which person did the harder thing? The innovator or the copy-cat? Obviously the innovator because he not only had to execute but also to create and modify an understand the game at a far deeper level than the copy-cat.
Any real tips for a DDP 1cc though? It was actually my first shmup years ago but I've never been able to finish it.
>>6183882>First compare the same game, not different games.No, because you are claiming one aspect of playing games is inherently easier or harder than another, if you say for example "innovation + perfect execution is harder than perfect execution alone" then yes you would be correct but it would also be a meaningless statement. And you know this, which is why you said some dumb indefensible shit like "playing music isn't hard because it's memorization". Now you are desperately trying to weasel out of that discussion and acting like you didn't say what you said
>>6183884Don't hoard bombs. What parts are you having trouble with?
>>6183887Stage 5 or 6. It's been awhile. I go back every now and then like "for real this time" but I bail on it after a few months.
>>6183896>Stage 5If all you want is a sloppy clear this is the right place to use bombs, always keep your finger on the trigger. Besides that, learn to stream bullets better. The key is creating good openings by a sudden quick movement when you're approaching the end of the screen, and taking advantage of openings when you see them, most of it is fundamentals and good bullet reading, but memorizing the location of bigger enemies will help a lot. The boss has a safe spot, you can use it to deal with his explosion spam but it requires pretty specific timing.>Stage 6No trick, it's just a matter of practice and memorizing the layout. It gets very chaotic and hard to see at times, learning the bee spawns helps a lot, being aggressive with the big mechs does too. Final boss is also a pure gitgud moment, but bombs help a lot, you want a couple for his final pattern at least.
>>6183909Thanks. I'll fire it up tonight.
How's ESPGaluda 1 and 2 emulation these days?
>>6183579>>6183584thanks dudes, I'll keep hammering at it but a little farther up the screen now. appreciate the commiseration
>>6184058I had strange hangups but otherwise seems fine. Was there a problem with them? Even 2 seems to have been playable for years.
So I'm looking for a schmup game I played back in like 2010. I played it on a random Japanese cap at an anime con. It was like anime ww2, scrolled left to right, and had one boss who had a puppet and when you defeated him the puppet looked at the explosion while the guy looked away. Can anyone help me with the name for this? I've been thinking about it forever.
>>6183765>All bombs are panic bombsWrong, you sometimes use bombs to get more score than you could otherwise.
>>6183765>>6183782>what are planned bombs to make survival easierI hate know-it-all posers
>>61840581 is perfectly fine. 2 doesn't have slowdown properly emulated.
>>6184058I know its outside of this board but if I play the PS2 version of Eapgaluda on a real PS2 am I getting the authentic experience?
>>6184365Who cares just play the superior arrange mode if youre going to play the ps2 ver
>>6184365ports of retro games on later systems are legal
>>6184365just play it on MAME
What's a shmupers right of passage? DDP 1ALL? Any 1ALL? 2ALL? Certain Score? What gets you initiated into the ShmupClub?
>>61844051ccing your favorite game and disregarding what other autists think is the best game
>>6184405>What gets you initiated into the ShmupClub?pretending to like the genre while never playing it, and kissing mod assI'm not trolling
>>6184409Yeah I'm not saying we need to tell people what to play im just asking if there was a common indicator of someone actually being a shmupper what would it be? I fine with a 1cc of any shmup you like. I just didnt know if there was a specific achievement that when you hear that someone has accomplished it you know they are for real and not a poseur.
>>6184471The indicator is regularly playing the gamesIf you do so you'll naturally improve and get some increasingly harder clears or scoresWe have a big issue with poseurs that never play the games though
>>6184489>We have a big issue with poseurs that never play the games thoughYeah we know. You screech about it constantly in these threads.
>>6184058why do you wanna play trannygaluda
>>6177571>Psyvariar - you buzz bullets to get level ups and invincibility frames, flips the risk vs reward of shmups on its head and gets you to dive into big clusters of bulletsSold, looking for it to play now
What's your dream game?Bullet deflect area, but use limitexperience points/level upshops for component upgradesrouteshidden missions, ie blow up all the tanks, kill all heavy units before they run away etc
What are the best Taito games?
>>6185163Space Invaders seriesDarius seriesRayForce/Storm/CrisisTokioFighting HawkMaster of WeaponGun FrontierMetal BlackGrid SeekerGekirindan
Damn Gun Frontier is kind of cool
>>6177571>Guwange - you control the main character and a spirit that slows down/cancels bullets at onceIs there any punishment for using the spirit, besides limited movement?I've used it as a wall to block boss bullets to some success
Is recca a good for a scrub clear?
FEEVERRRRRRCAN YOU FEEL IT INSIDE YOUR SOUL
>>6185282No you can use it freely at any point, though you often need the fast/vertical movement and wider shot to dodge patterns, move into place and have more coverage with your shot. Using it to block bullets is a very legit and useful strategy
>>6185294play literally anything as long as you enjoy itthis whole "SHOULD I START ON [EASY SHMUP] BEFORE GOING ONTO [HARD SHMUP]?" is soi as fuck
>>6184405DDP 1-ALL is a pretty good one, it's very beginner friendly but you'll have to work for it and learn most of the basics, you just want to get to a point where you feel comfortable with getting 1cc's as a beginner and move on from there
*ahem*TWINKLE STAR SPRITES IS HELLA FUCKIN EPICthank you
Same 1p is this week's game over at HEY's streamhttps://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv324187478
So I tried Giga Wing in Mame. Does this game normally have huge input delay or is it just Mame?
Been getting to the last boss and dying on Rayforce for about a year now. Those homing lazers and the green wave end me.
>>6185663do you have vsync enabled?
im fucking ass at these games i've got like 12 hours in ddp and i'm not even close to 1cc first loop. fuck this.
>>6185758go play air gallet, its better than any caveshit (and will blow your socks off).
>>618575812 hours isn't all that much actually. Keep at it and you'll get it eventually.
>>6185663enable low latency for latest MAME>>6185758As someone else has said, 12 hours isn't that much for shmups. It's a bit much for DDP 1-ALL but not if it's your first clear. Keep trying, eventually it'll be smoother.>>6185768Akuu Gallet blows your *ocks off
I'm thinking about organizing a bi-weekly or so score attack competition for this topic. I figure we could just do an easily emulatable caravan shmup, people post screens of their high scores, and I keep a running high score table somehow. I used to run tables for Star Wars Episode 1 Racer on /vr/, so I figure just running one shmup would be a lot easier. Would anyone one be interested?
>>6183640Imagine seeing a vidya game and only being able to think about disease ridden fag sex.
Fuck off to your shithole on /vg/, shumptards. This board doesn't need any more cancerous generals.
>>6185804Not me, shmups are too high commitment compared to racing. If it's best score for one single stage then that might be fun especially the harder later stages
>>6185810That tugfest broke up a while ago. Turns out fagmode neckbeard elitists can't really stand their own kind.
>>6185810Lol @ this impotent rage at people discussing games normally
>>6185814That's why I specified it being a caravan shmup. Doing a 3 or 5 minute game seems a lot easier to jump into than needing to learn and practice a full on 20-40 minute game.
>>6185810keep reporting, jarpigsdelicious seethe>>6185815shmupg couldn't keep going precisely because people like you hatespamming it couldn't be banned>>6185823SHMUP BAD
>one or 2 jarpig shitposters is all it took to take down /shmupg/lol, what a useless general
>>6185862when a general is small (naturally with such a genre) and those shitposters can't be checked then yeah it ruins things
>>6185837Mite b cool
shmupg so triggered they're reporting posts____topkek
fucking FINALLY /vr/ mods are removing the anti-shmup shitposters that enter every thread instead of removing shmup threads
>>6185758Its not a race, just focus on improving and having fun and the 1cc will come. 12 hours really isn't much, DDP was my third 1cc and it took me 25-30 hours. Look at the perseverance of this fuckin guy >>6185680
>>6185883Shumpers are the shitposters by making their shitty generals here and the janitor is a retard if he thinks it's better to have you here instead of /vg/.
>>6185884People are just too used to babby games inflating their ego, shmups humble you
>janiturd intensively babysitting the general and giving me temp blocks for telling the truththe absolute state. you must be a new hire because the other mods are nowhere near as kind to shumptards as you are.
>>6185913>the other mods are nowhere near as kind to shumptards as you are.How does it feel to be on the other side? We've endured the jarpig bias of mods for years. Enjoy, faggot. This isn't even pro-shmup, just normal moderation, but compared to anti-shmup bias it's too much for you, eh.
>>6185913NOOOOO WHY AREN'T MODS LETTING ME SHIT ON SHMUPS AND THEIR FANS WHILE REMOVING THEIR THREADS? WHY AM I GETTING REMOVED INSTEAD? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>6184947Have fun, it's a god-tier game. Great for all skill levels too because of the routes and level requirements
Do you consider autofire cheating?
>>6185941In some nitpicky technical sense yes, in any practical sense no. It does make the games easier, sometimes significantly so, but it's potentially dangerous at best, tiresome at worst and not that interesting of a skill to test to begin with.
>>6185941It is cheating but it's the most common form of play. Scoreboards still distinguish autofire ON or autofire OFF though for those who want to mash, since it's an undeniable advantage.
>>6185663I havent noticed huge lag. I play through retroarch though. I cant remember if I used run ahead or not but I dont remember it being too bad. >>6185804Sounds cool. I would just keep it short and maybe do it monthly to give everyone time to squeeze in quick runs. I dont want to take too much time away from what I'm focusing on to do it.>>6185758Keep trying. These games can take a whike sometimes. Depending on skill, difficulty, and time available, some people spend years on a game. Its worth it though. And DDP will teach you a lot if your new.
what a fucking beast.
shmups are the NTR of videogames and shmup fans are the MLP fans of videogames
>>6186440>>6186487Still shittin up shmup threads? Dont you have crossdressing Cloud screenshots to be discussing
>>6186160>>6186423>>6186440notice how every single time this thread is bumped and some jarpig sees it on page 1 he seethes and has to enter to shitpost (check time between these posts)fuckers can't see a single shmup thread without feeling insecure
Does Raiden II have better stage design than DX Expert?
>>6186587depends on whether you like how medals work in DX or not
first time for /vr/ when it comes to shmups:based mods
>>6186648>talk shit about /vr/ for years, say you don't want to post here because the board has an 'anti-skill' bias>your garbage general on /vg/ dies out>come back crawling to the board like a dog >BASED MODS, THEY'RE LETTING US HAVE OUR GARBAGE GENERALS HERE NOW
>>6186656they're doing their job instead of nuking us for once, (for the first time ever really) that's why there was hate for /vr/ (aside from having a population of really clueless people about arcade games sticking their nose just like you)seethe harder nintenjarpig
lol look at them cry that they can no longer shit up shmup threads and expect mod to remove the threads instead of them/vr/ has some shmup discussion now, please learn to deal with it, it shouldn't be too hard, I mean it's not like our tiny population is ever going to overtake your massive sea of RPGs
>>6186648sort of but not quite, he's also deleting anti-jarpig/tranny posts.
>>6186671>aside from having a population of really clueless people about arcade gamesLads,Gents,and Patricians of /vr/I pose to you, this:How do we revive the arcade, and arcade gaming, beyond fighting games?Why do Gacha games on mobile and fighting games survive the test of time while shoot em ups, brawlers, and rail shooters stay in the past? Did those genres already peak?
>>6186679It's OK he's not banning shmup fans, just removing that trace so that people focus on shmups, it's fair>>6186681Versus games have a wider appeal. I don't even know why you're bringing up gachas, they're completely unrelated, and they're relevant due to progression addiction obviously.The solution is to stop worrying, just enjoy all the games already available and have fun talking about them with the small but nonetheless alive scene.
>>6186671Yes, of course. It's just because of that now. It's totally not because you're a homeless nigger with nowhere else to go. I'd prefer if you stayed on your discord instead of polluting the board with your awful generals though.
>>6186681Forgot to add that the genres didn't necessarily peak, gaming just changed so single player experiences that aren't jarpig-like (long, easy, with story and progression) can no longer be sold except for very cheap prices which limits the genre to indie status, thus lower standards than decades ago. There are very few exceptions to this and it's just too hard to even bother to bank on pure arcade-style games for full price.That /vr/ just so happens to only like old games that fit to this new standard is (((pure coincidence))) of course.>>6186689bro shmupg has been dead for many months now, and only until a few days ago shmup threads were getting removed stillJust filter shmup threads and go back to elf ffs I think you can deal with a thread you dislike per board, as we do with most of your board lmaofucking loser
>>6186681gacha games are new though the fuck ya smokin m8
>>6186686>I don't even know why you're bringing up gachas, they're completely unrelated>token based gamesIdk anon, I would argue that gachas are THE modern arcade games, as painful and cancerous it felt to type that. PAD rightfully has arcade cabinets
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY IS THERE A SHMUP THREAD ON MY JARPIG BOARD
>>6186707Just because arcade places had gambling shit and slot machines you can't link arcade video games to fucking gachas lmaoGachas are more like a mobile, extreme version of cancerous RPG no-skill elements. They have absolutely nothing in common with skill-based arcade video games.
seething jarpigs btfo once againwatch them keep coming thoughlmao
imagine having most of your favourite shumps be danmaku
>>6186767all three of them are (MUCH) better at shmups than youstop crying and play shmups
>>6186767fucking retard, danmakuck is reserved for people that have only ever played bullet hells, like the average 2hufapper player. don't taint the word
>>6186742>They have absolutely nothing in common with skill-based arcade video games.Yes they doAzur Lane is literally a horizontal shmup
>>6186771>stop crying and play shmupsI can point out the farm's shit taste AND play shmups, tyvm.What, are you one of their groupies? rofl.>>6186772It also applies to people who spend the majority of their time playing bullet hell games and only rarely dabbling in dadcore games, not just those who either ignore or shit on dad games.
>>6186778so is Jets n Guns but it doesn't play like an arcade game
>>6186783>I can point out the farm's shit taste AND play shmups, tyvm.Post your scores.>It also applies to people who spend the majority of their time playing bullet hell games and only rarely dabbling in dadcore games, not just those who either ignore or shit on dad games.It doesn't apply to those three because they have strong dad clears, unlike you lmfaoRetards like you make those of us who prefer dad games all look like a bunch of nonplaying retards. Stop. Play and show them that you have superior tastes like that.
>>6186792this, become the next saucykobold instead of crying that some people who like all sorts of shmups and have clears in many styles have a preference for one that you dislike
>>6186792Lots of assumptions and madhoms in this post. I apologise for triggering you and your e-celeb idols. /sarcasm
>>61868040 assumptionshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUgDvU4udDInow post YOUR dad clears, mr. not-danmakuck. On this community you're assumed to not have any clear unless you actually show them
>>6186804You're making people that prefer dad games look like morons, that's what maddening, not insulting fucking Gaymers and iconofag. Blow it out of your ass faggot
the real jokers are those who openly vote games that they haven't even cleared, like blossom. shameless posers
Don't talk to me unless you've 1cc'd this game
garegga = dadmaku
anyone know what makes the co2 medals spawn in flame zapper kotsujin?
Give me a list of dadcore games to check out
>>6187018take a look at these 15 for MAME:Gradius 2Flying SharkR-TypeThunder Dragon 2Aero FightersSorcer Striker19XXGun FrontierDarius GaidenHyper DuelTruxtonMetal BlackDaiohRaidenXevious
>>6187018AKUU GALLET blows your *ocks off
>>6186767I have no issues with these lists. Looks like a nice mix of old and new. Are you just seething cause no 2hu? All you seem to do is seeth about players better than you.
>>6187205He's mad because nu-shmuppers don't appreciate his '80s dadshit.
>>6187214has mark 1cc'd truxton?
made it halfway through the 4th stage of ddp today. probably wasted a total of 10 bombs to deaths. i swear to god, every time i think "oh fuck i better just bomb" i press the button on the exact frame that i die.
>>6187229also what determines whether or not you get the extend on stage 3? sometimes it appears and sometimes it doesn't.
>>61872294needs routing for the big ships that appear mid way. Watch a replay.Stop trying to flail through it and bomb spamming. It needs no bombs except maybe before boss.
>>6187264Destroy all side turrets on the big ship before you trigger the middle compartment with the 1up.Learn the stage 4'boss glitch, freezing him is important.
>>6187269no, i'm not wasting bombs as in just spamming bosses to death, i'm saying i'm dying with 3 bombs, 5 bombs, etc in stock.>>6187272thanks.
>>6186767Imagine blossom posting.Seething about DDP and Ketsui.still
>>6187273Don't do the stage 4 boss glitch on your first 1cc.
>>6186767Those are good lists desu
>>6187272>Learn the stage 4'boss glitch, freezing him is important.Wtf why, it just complicates an otherwise pretty straightforward fight
>>6187276blossom likes cave, though
>>6187307i dont plan on it. i honestly find the bosses so far easier than the stages. sometimes i can clear stage 3 and 4 bosses with with no bombs (stage 4 usually takes one) but in the middle of stage 2 i sometimes blow one, same with 3 and 4 will eat a couple.
Finally got around to blazing star, its really fun. I like that it isn't super hard or anything. I like the spread and melee ship the most so far
Why is everyone playing on arcade sticks? Feels horrible.
>>6187447I use a saturn pad, feels good man
>tfw you scroll through 400 posts of autistic infighting only to find out no one has posted any download links to a shmup pack
>>6187553That's what you get for being a dumbass and not just looking up /shmupg/ in the archives
>>6187447Not everyone, Prometheus played on keyboard, Gus plays on gamepad, Jaimers played/plays on pad, and iirc Bananamatic was a pad player too but that might have changed.
>>6187447Advantage of stick is you can easily go to an arcade and play well without suckingGus said he can't get past stage 2 futari ultra at the arcades because he's not used to sticks
Did Perkeles get that Tengai 2-ALL yet?
>>6187572>played on keyboardthat's cheating
>>6187639Don't worry as keyboard players will never play good on real hardware.
>>6187639Nobody cares>muh transferable skill muh authenticityHe picked up a stick learned it and 2-ALL'd DDP live for Stunfest, clearly not that huge of a deal
>>6187641>it's another 'nobody cares but poster still replied anyways' episodedundundunANOTHO WUN BITEZ DA DUST
>>6187646Your response stinks bro and you should probably be euthanized. I'm describing the reality that people don't care that he's a keyboard player since they respect his scores regardless, not that I have no interest in discussing the topic
>>6187653>nobody care->Your response stinks bro and you should probably be euthanized!!!!!!!!calm your tits drama queen
>>6187661I'm perfectly calm dude, calmer than you are
>I'm perfectly calm dude, calmer than you are
post your gender, your shmup, and your score. NOW.
>>6187692scores are for attention whores
>>6187751scores are for actual players, spectators should remain silent.>>6187692male - gradius II - 500,000
>>6187692Male, Psyvariar Revision, 68m
scores literally dont matter if theyre not <= 1c
Well, seeing that there was at least a little bit of interest, let's give this 4chan Caravan a try. My plan for now is that I'll select a game and run it for two weeks. (These are caravan games designed for 2-5 minute runs, so 2 weeks seems like plenty for people to get a good amount of optimization without the game getting stale.) Anyone can submit their name, score, and proof in their post and I'll update the list.To get this show on the road, we'll start where Hudson themselves did when they got their show on the road: 1986's Star Soldier on the NES. We'll use a hacked version designed to add 2 and 5 minute modes, which you can get here: http://www.skrybe.net/stuff/Star%20Soldier%20Special%20Version%20(J).zipFor convenience's sake, format your entry to have the score first and then your name, like so:2 MINUTE42800 - Character OWe'll wrap this up on February 22. Good luck everyone!
>>6187774now this is basedsee you on the leaderboard, nerds
>>6187774Hey wait a minute, I posted a null sign, not an O. MOOOOOOT5 MINUTE85500 - Character OHere's where I reveal that I don't really play shmups, so my scores are going to be fucking pitiful. But all the easier for you to get to number 1 then, isn't it?
>>6186767now, that's a personality
the chad scorer vs the virgin 1sissy coper
>>61877742 MINUTE51100 - Character O
>>61877742 MINUTE121400 - Character O
>>6187774doesnt the wii have this gameIve played the wii version before
>>6187774>>6187836Wait, the Character O is supposed to be the name right?2 MINUTE121400 - Cave owns bitch
>>6187845Yeah, get your own name, dickheads.Pic related is my new high score on 5 minute.>CURRENT BOARDS:>5 MINUTE1. 121400 - Cave owns bitch2. 51100 - Character O>10 MINUTE1. 137900 - Character O
>>6187838This game has a ton of sequels and has been re-released a ton of times.
>>6187850Oh jesus, I'm an idiot.>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 121400 - Cave owns bitch2. 51100 - Character O>5 MINUTE1. 137900 - Character O
There's also apparently a 2006 doujin spiritual successor to Star Soldier that doubles down on the caravan with 14 different maps the player can run. I'm considering it as a future entry in the 4chan Caravan, but given that it's a japanese PC game from 06, it'd be a lot harder to get (or convince people to get) compared to a NES rom.
>>61877742 MINUTE136500 - Cave owns bitchThe stage transition length is absurd, it might be more lucrative to suicide
>>6187862>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 136500 - Cave owns bitch2. 51100 - Character O>5 MINUTE1. 137900 - Character O
What about autofire though? This game requires some pretty major mashing, should specify whether it's allowed or not.
>>6187869Autofire is allowed for this game.>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 136500 - Cave owns bitch2. 55300 - Character O>5 MINUTE1. 137900 - Character O
>>6187869Isnt select autofire?
>>6187871No unless I'm doing something wrong
2 MINUTE42700 - Feetsieshow are you guys getting 100k+ for 2 min
>>6187874The biggest score bonus (80k) is from destroying the face boss before the bits join together, it's pretty easy to do with autofire as long as you kill all the enemy waves before him quickly and make him appear in a space with lots of room to move
>>6187874Z tiles. Every Z tile you score in a row increases in value exponentially, so you really need to know where those tiles are and route to get them all.>>6187876Shit, I didn't know that.>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 136500 - Cave owns bitch2. 90000 - Character O3. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 137900 - Character OThis'll be it for me tonight. Feel free to keep updating the boards while I'm not here if more people keep laying down scores.
Also, if anyone's interested in inducing carpal tunnel, the Rapid Measurement Trial measures how well you mash. I don't think I'll keep a board for it unless people are interested, but I got 86 on the 10 sec trial.
2 minute - 344900 - shmupg gang
5 minute - 910400 - shmupg gang
What the fuck? How did you do that? >CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 344900 - shmupg gang2. 136500 - Cave owns bitch3. 90000 - Character O4. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang 2. 137900 - Character O
>>6187901Holy based>>61879132 MINUTE254800 - Cave owns bitchYou get another bonus for destroying the eyes at the same time which is also pretty easy to do, I guess the rest of his score is just getting all the Z's which I'm still working on
>>6187774Cool idea. >>6187882Got 88.
>>6176284Is there a reason why your ship doesn't always shoot the default bullets automatically all the time and have another button as a modifier instead?
>>6187882>>6187936I am very glad that autofire exists
>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 344900 - shmupg gang2. 254800 - Cave owns bitch3. 90000 - Character O4. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang 2. 137900 - Character OFuck, now I really am going to sleep.
>>6187913>What the fuck? How did you do that?i know this game since i was a 5yo, or so
2 MINUTE334400 - Cave owns bitchDone for today, good shmupping
>>6187798>Here's where I reveal that I don't really play shmups, so my scores are going to be fucking pitiful. But all the easier for you to get to number 1 then, isn't it?Hopefully this motivates you to play. I'm a bit busy right now but I'll give this game a chance, even though NES shmups are a bit of a downgrade to the MAME stuff I'm used to.
>>6186767imagine being a poser like youbet you picture yourself as a dadcore specialist but guess wat u suck at dadgames as much as u suck at danmakugit gud instead of crying over people's taste, cause right you're in blossom gang, not in saucy's crew, you fucking imposter
>>6187806You don't pick games to show off your "personality", you pick them based on quality. On top of that if you actually look past the first few spots there is a lot of variety on all of their lists.
>>6188001reminder that blossom's only arcade clear so far, according to him, is Batsugun Special's first loop
To all these nonplayers that like to go all DAD GOOD DANMAKU BAD, as someone who plays shmups and prefers dad:Cave being so popular to play is 100% justified. The games are more tailored made for high level play. Sure, Gradius games are fun, but optimizing an infinite game doesn't compare to a finite game. Some dad isn't infinite, but there's less to do. So naturally advanced players will gravitate towards games with a high density of stuff to do and optimize.Take iconoclast for instance, he likes to focus on a complex game to score, namely DOJ, but he also likes to clear some dad games here and there for a less intense but still fun experience. He prefers DOJ because the situation couldn't be flipped, focusing on simpler games would get old faster, and DOJ has a lot to give to the player. Hence why his top of the list has games like this and a bit later he includes some of his favorite dad. He also plays other arcade genres such as beat 'em ups similar to how he plays dad shmups.As for me, I prefer less commited survival play for my personal fun. I find dad games a bit better when it comes to this, but danmaku are nowhere near bad.Reserve this danmakuck rejection to people that only play danmakus, which are typically scrubs who only play easy ones here and there (because they don't want to memorize), or 2hufappers (those games suck for score, not even they like them for score).And finally, less crying and more playing, of course. Participate in that Star Soldier competition and prove your dad worth.
2 MINUTE344000 - NLM
>>6188019>Cave being so popular to play is 100% justified. The games are more tailored made for high level playThis is a fucken fed, don't believe him.
>>6188029Oh yeah? Tell me what game is more built for advanced players:>Raiden/Truxton: the games never end and what you do is limited to destroying everything and grabbing everything>Cave: finite game with very hard to optimize chainingBe serious, what game sounds better to you to focus on for months or years?I prefer dad because I don't focus on games for that long to begin with, but you'd be lying to yourself if you challenged this.
>>6188032Tell me why the best DDP player in the world stopped playing DDP and is now running Tatsujin Ou and Raiden 1 regularly?
>>6188035I don't know his case but maybe he got tired of DDP after a long time and wants something different. It can also be a case of wanting something more relaxing. Tatsujin Ou and Raiden are great games, but definitely more relaxing to play for score than DDP, even if their survival is challenging. They're much more lenient.In infinite games specially it's not the end of the world if you miss something because you can compensate by surviving a bit further. In DDP you have to be fucking perfect.
>>6188036>It can also be a case of wanting something more relaxing> They're much more lenient.Since when does more lenient scoring mean relaxing? In loop 3+ of raiden you can barely see the bullets they are coming so fast and if you die once it's much extremely hard to recover.>In infinite games specially it's not the end of the world if you miss something because you can compensate by surviving a bit further. > In DDP you have to be fucking perfect.A lot of them try to get 10million or 100million points the fastest, so you still have to play perfect to catch a WR, the longer you spread out the score the more likely you are to die in higher loops.
>>6188005Wait isnt blossom a mod in shmup discord? What does he play if hes only got 1 clear?
>>6188024Also for this run I suicided after the double eye bonus before the boss. I think you can get more points that way as the boss only gives 5000. I could definitely get a bit higher than this but its tough.
>>6188043>Since when does more lenient scoring mean relaxing?I'm guessing your experienced with these games is rather limited, but having no leeway at all ever requires 100% focus all the time. Hard survival is tight but it has its highs and lows.>In loop 3+ of raiden you can barely see the bullets they are coming so fast and if you die once it's much extremely hard to recover.The player isn't reacting anyway, and these people get super good at recovering.In DDP you have to play almost 1 hour of no miss no bomb, with a hard second loop, while meticulously chaining and getting everything. If you haven't tried yourself, just try both experiences. You'll see that pure survival is relatively more relaxing (while still engaging for expert players if they're hard enough like the games we're talking about). In the sense that the game is asking less from the player.I'm someone who has actually played TO and Raiden beyond the first loop but I find stuff like Cave scoring to be much too stressful to optimize in comparison, hence why I stick to dad survival.>A lot of them try to get 10million or 100million points the fastestDo they really time attack the "counterstop"? lmaoThe top multiloopers of say TO last for many hours at the game. The game's challenge peaks at loop 2. So they're beating loop 2 many times over. They've clearly mastered the game, hope you can see now what I mean by relatively relaxing experience.>>6188046He scores in some piss easy poojins. But Elixir's server is a place for secondaries (Elixir himself hasn't played shit for like 4+ years), so don't be surprised to find people like that in power.>>6188047Read what I said above, once you get good enough at the game it's actually quite chill. In my case, places like 1-4 are chill. For better, more experienced players, they achieve that with the second loop.https://streamable.com/axpgh
the seething at cave nonplayer virginthe honest dad player chad
>>6188051The original point was that Cave games are more built for advanced players because they have some unique scoring mechanics. It's true their scoring is unique but that doesn't make them better suited for advanced players, it makes them better suited for players who like alternative means of scoring, beyond very efficient survival-type play.>The player isn't reacting anyway, and these people get super good at recovering.Not really true, recovering will take very fast reaction time in higher loops, even if you practice check points, it will be hard to execute. Plus that's kind of irrelevant. A super-good DDP player can chill with DDP if his goal is below his personal best. If he can get 600mill as his best then going for 400mill isn't a big deal for him, and he'll feel quite relaxed just taking it easy.>Read what I said above, once you get good enough at the game it's actually quite chill.If you play casually with no goal in mind and you're not trying to get better, sure. Any game can eventually turn relaxing because you're not pushing yourself. But advanced players don't have that mentality. That's stagnation. >I'm someone who has actually played TO and Raiden beyond the first loop but I find stuff like Cave scoring to be much too stressful to optimize in comparison, hence why I stick to dad survival.Any well designed shmup can be stressful if you play with a goal in mind and the goal is beyond your previous personal best.The reason you might be so relaxed is because you don't actually push yourself or challenge yourself sufficiently, it's not any games fault, it's just how you play. You play it safe.
>>6188051>In DDP you have to play almost 1 hour of no miss no bomb, with a hard second loop, while meticulously chaining and getting everything. If you haven't tried yourself, just try both experiences. You'll see that pure survival is relatively more relaxingWell no shit pure survival is going to be more relaxing than scoring a game. Scoring requires much tighter routing and efficiency.Why are you comparing scoring in cave vs survival in classic shmups? That's not fair.Scoring in classic shmups requires more than simple survival, you'll have to conserve bombs, kill everything, pick up medals, maybe no-miss stages, and milk bosses, reveal secrets and maybe milk check points, and do all sorts of weird shit that increase your risk beyond just surviving a loop. Not to mention maybe playing for hours and hours on end which requires a ton of focus and endurance way above any Cave game.
>>6188072>uniqueNo, uniqueness isn't the point but rather density of things to do and optimize, which is what's appealing to an advanced player. The rest of your argument falls flat because it's based on this weird assumption that uniqueness was what was being discussed.Unless you've actually tried though you won't get what I'm saying I'm afraid.>Raiden recovery>reaction timesYeah we're dealing with a noobie here.>A super-good DDP player can chill with DDP if his goal is below his personal bestYou can't if you're attempting to improve. Meanwhile in Tatsujin Ou, getting a personal best would be to loop 2 for the fifth time instead of the fourth in a row. Don't you see the difference? Doing the same thing you already can another time is far more relaxing than getting better and better at the same, with all the diminishing returns.>If you play casually with no goal in mind and you're not trying to get better, sure. Any game can eventually turn relaxing because you're not pushing yourself. But advanced players don't have that mentality. That's stagnation.It was relaxing when going for 1 loop attempts and I had that stage already mastered but not the later two. You don't get this either? What's up with larpers like you?Before we continue, I'd appreciare if you posted your best score (game doesn't matter).>Any well designed shmup can be stressful if you play with a goal in mind and the goal is beyond your previous personal best.The reason you might be so relaxed is because you don't actually push yourself or challenge yourself sufficiently, it's not any games fault, it's just how you play. You play it safe.In these games eventually there's just nothing left to optimize. You can optimize the first stage of Raiden very easily. After that every reset of that stage is very low intensity, no matter how "hard" you push it. Such is not the case, or to a much lesser degree in Cave games. Just watch Gus play Futari Ultra.Play more, larp less.
>>6188075>>6188075>Why are you comparing scoring in cave vs survival in classic shmups? That's not fair.Because that was the discussion, that Cave games are better suited for advanced play.> you'll have to conserve bombs, kill everything, pick up medals, maybe no-miss stages, and milk bosses, reveal secrets and maybe milk check points, and do all sorts of weird shit that increase your risk beyond just surviving a loop.Later games have all that (except checkpoint milking), and much more on top of it. That's the point.Surviving for hours can be fun but it's still less intense on a moment-to-moment basis, which is again what was being said. Follow the conversation, please.
>>6188085>You can't if you're attempting to improve. Meanwhile in Tatsujin Ou, getting a personal best would be to loop 2 for the fifth time instead of the fourth in a row. Don't you see the difference?No, it would be getting to loop 2 with a better score than before, with more lives in stock, with more bombs, with less mistakes, with at tighter route. So that you could potentially get farther and farther. Going to loop 2 with no lives and no bombs in stock is very different than a no-miss run.Or if you are playing for maximum score it would be to get to a higher stage or higher loop with an even higher score. Even if the difficulty of the Tatsujin Ou caps eventually it doesn't matter because you can always play better and the game is sufficiently difficult to challenge even advanced players.>It was relaxing when going for 1 loop attempts and I had that stage already mastered but not the later two. You don't get this either? What's up with larpers like you?I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. We're talking about scoring for ADVANCED PLAYERS, not you trying to get a clear. Are you comparing 1CC Tatsujin Ou to getting a big score in DDP?? Why don't you compare getting 5million or 10million in Tatsujin Ou with getting a big score in DDP? How relaxing is that going to be for you?I already said world records measure when you attain 10million or 100million, if you get it at an earlier stage-loop you are better than the other guy. Your routing is better and you optimized your scoring better.
>>6188086>Because that was the discussion, that Cave games are better suited for advanced play.Sure if you ignore scoring and competition in older shmups then Cave is better suited for advanced players who like to compete. What a dumb argument.>Surviving for hours can be fun but it's still less intense on a moment-to-moment basis, which is again what was being said.Intensity is subjective to a player and his training and composure. It doesn't prove Cave is better suited for advanced players. It doesn't prove anything at all.
>>6188120Not him but why are you ignoring his comments about density of things to do and optimize and how newer games have (almost) everything the likes of Raiden have and more complexity on top of that? Those are the key to what's being discussed, you can play some newer games for hundreds of hours and still have little scoring gains that could be made in the very first stage. This isn't hard to grasp, you're just being unbelievably daft about it.
>>6188138>Not him but why are you ignoring his comments about density of things to do and optimize and how newer games have (almost) everything the likes of Raiden have and more complexity on top of that?Because 10lbs of feathers are just as heavy as 10lbs of rocks.Don't get fooled by his examples.Cave games have different styles of scoring, sure, but different doesn't mean automatically superior for an advanced player. It means better suited for players who like chaining, or like point blanking at the top of the screen, or like color puzzles, or like bullet cancels or whatever is involved. If two games reach the same level of difficulty then it doesn't matter if one makes you collect medals and milk bosses while the other makes you time bullet-cancel and point-blank a lot. The demand is the same, it's just expressed in different ways.
>>6188146Well no you're completely muddling the waters. For starters, do you agree that modern shmups have DEEPER SCORING than old school ones? That is, do you agree that they have a larger amount of potential states the score counter can be in based on player inputs? If you deny this then you are objectively wrong, if you accept this then most of what you are saying is meaningless and the discussion should rather be about you justifying why shallower games can be just as good for advanced play as deep games, not trying to portray the games as equally deep.
>>6188154Modern shmups create more scoring variables. But that doesn't automatically make them superior and better suited for advanced players than classic shmups. If a classic shmup is able to deliver similar difficulty but with lower variables it doesn't make it worse than one with more variables. It makes it more efficient and the experience less convoluted.Imagine a game like Garegga but with twice the scoring variables, does that mean it's better for score players? Maybe some would like it, maybe some would find it too obnoxious.
>>6188161>Modern shmups create more scoring variables.Yes, and what does this mean in practice? In practice it means that the games have more things for you to learn and optimize because the range of scores will vary much more. In practice it also means that if a scoring system is sufficiently deep, optimizing it will require pixel perfect precision, it might reach such frequency that it goes beyond human ability. You see how this is more engaging in the long run, no?>It makes it more efficient and the experience less convoluted.Convoluted is a different albeit related problem, a game can have a lot of variables but still be very intuitive. The reason a game being convoluted is bad has far less to do with how engaging it is to play at a high level and more to do with how enjoyable it is to learn and understand.
>>6187771the virgin scorervsthe chad 1cc collector
>>6188120>No, it would be getting to loop 2 with a better score than beforeThis is way easier in dad games where there's very few things to do. Use your brain. Compare stage 1 of Tatsujin Ou with stage 1 of Futari Ultra. Getting the most ouf of cancels is a mechanic there for very advanced players that want to push themselves all the time.>We're talking about scoring for ADVANCED PLAYERS, not you trying to get a clear.Getting a clear in dad is very close to optimizing the stage for score, while surviving a DDP stage is very very far away from getting the best score in it>>6188129reading comprehension: 0>>6188138He's just some clueless nonplayer. Hopefully after playing a bit he'll get all of this. I'm just sad that people that defend dad have to be like this so often, gives us dad fans a terrible image of drooling morons.
is the slowdown im getting sometimes in ddp intentional or is it mame fuckery
>>6188880The game is programmed that way, not an emulation/computer issue.In DDP it's not too bad and it helps you dodge. If it really annoys you, you can overclock MAME, but that's a really bad idea because it'd make the game super hard at points.
>>6188891okay, just wanted to make sure my gameplay was legitimate and not cheating by means of mame doing weird stuff.tried using the green ship for the first time. dont know if i actually like it or if it was just a nice change from blue + laser but it was kind of fun. still can't bomb for shit, some day i'll start pressing the button before i die instead of after.
>>6188897The easiest ship is Blue-Laser still. Learning to use reaction bombs is important, but also planning bomb usage.
Games that have shops?
>>6188972Several Capcom shmups, like Area 88.Or europoop.
>>6188972go play forgotten worlds
>they actually deleted the arcade threadfor what fucking purpose
>>6189360Not only that, they also area-banned Ricardo permanently https://imgur.com/a/xx3CgTP
>>6189360He intentionally stoked fake arguments and drama just to keep certain threads bumped. Shitposting. Samefagging.Wouldn't listen to reason that classic shmups are just as hard and scorable as danmakus>>6189278#>infinite looping games with tremendous difficulty>uhhh let's just look at stage 1You fail so hard youre making retarded analogies about tutorial stages. Proves how dishonest you are and won't compare games fairly. If the stages offer the same objective challenge then all those scoring tricks don't mean anything. We all know classic shmups offer similar difficulty as cave games.Show that on average danmakus are way way harder than classic shmups (no cherry picking or retards analogies). You can't. So you fail. Enjoy your ban faggot.
>>6189392Nice.>>6189365>>6189370He lives on vpns and shitposts non stop. Has mental problems and doesn't play anything ever. This thread should be deleted for the sake of our board.
I guess they deleted the other thread. Maybe I should just make the caravan its own thread?>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 344900 - shmupg gang3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch4. 259100 - jarpig5. 255200 - Character O6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 227500 - Ricardo3. 137900 - Character O>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
>>6189415I have two score there that are fake. Will add another soon.
Cave games are only hard because they have some retarded impossible secret boss at the end of the 2nd loop, the rest of a Cave game is far easier than a hard dad game.
Can't wait for the Cave haters to appear.
>>6189439cave sucks bitch
>>6189392What's funny is optimizing scoring stage 1 ddp or esgaluda is easier than optimizing scoring stage 1 same!Same!Same!That guy just repeats what he's heard, never scored any cave game.
>>6189360>>6189365>>6189370take the hint and go back to discord. nobody wants you subhumans here.
>>6189458Go back to discuck yourself, faggot.
>>6189452Thanks for not disappointing.
>>61894152 MINUTE333100 - jarpigI'll probably try 5 minutes now. A caravan thread would be cool, but it might get more attention as part of the general shmup threads.
>>6189494>but it might get more attention as part of the general shmup threads.Too bad they get removed from /vr/ frequently because they're associated with /vg/ crossposters.
>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 344900 - shmupg gang3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch4. 333100 - jarpig5. 255200 - Character O6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 227500 - Ricardo3. 137900 - Character O>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
took a break from ddp to try out esp ra de some. it's a really cool game, and i like playing as a human character more than i do a faceless ship, so i might drop and play this instead. it seems way the hell harder though.
Why there are lots of deleted post eventhough these posts on topic?
>>6183316what's wrong with mame?
>>6183554As far as I know the hard parts are when earthquakes happen. My strat was to kill these rolling bugs first then kill the middle sized ones.Also seem you're playing on mame, that's harder because no proper slowdowns.
>>6189648doesn't mame generally preserve intentional slowdown?
>>61895785 MINUTE372300 - jarpigI need to figure out where the Z tiles and other bonuses are in stage 2.
>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 344900 - shmupg gang3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch4. 333100 - jarpig5. 255200 - Character O6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 372300 - jarpig3. 227500 - Ricardo4. 137900 - Character O>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
>>6189627The mods here are out of control. They're JRPG players who moderate extra hard on shmup threads, they're namefags, and most importantly they moderate subjectively. Someone needs to create an alternative to this board. Nothing else would fix the problem.
once this thread had hit page 10 i think we should have a dedicated thread for the mini competition. more people would see it and would maybe join.
>>6189605hey me tooive been liking that and guwange
>>6189798this artificial opposition between JRPG people and shmup people is stupid. I'm pretty sure if not most than at least a lot of people here happily play both. they scratch different itches
>>6189819ive been meaning to give guwange another shot too, i remember really liking it back when i was big into shmups as a teen. i feel like its control system would be a bit much for me to handle nowadays though
>>6189823are you a danmaku who plays trannies?
>>6189838I hope it felt embarassing to write that
>>6189810That's what I was thinking. Coming from the outside, it also seems like shmup threads on here are really volatile, so it'd be a bummer to see it get deleted because of some incoherent simmering flame war that we've got nothing to do with.Boy is it depressing to keep restarting the same run because you're dying to easy shit.
>>6189823it's not artificial, rpgfags seethe at skill-based games and shmupfags seethe at rpgfags because they dominate this board and because mods always take their side.
>>6189863what kind of retard do you have to be to honestly think that people who like jrpgs actively and universally get peeved at the existence of skill based games outside of a loud and mentally ill minority?
>>6189863>rpgfags seethe at skill-based gamesWho? I've watched these threads and haven't seen any of that. You must have a serious case of Rent Free.
>>6189892You're talking to a guy who thinks /vr/ assassins are out to get him.
>>6189863>>6189892>>6189904shumptards get made fun of simply because they're obnoxious mentally ill autists with a false sense of superiority. if it was about "seething at skill-based games" people would do the same for fighting games and fps, yet they don't because the people that play those genres aren't nearly as autistic and obnoxious as shump players.
>>6189861>Boy is it depressing to keep restarting the same run because you're dying to easy shit.That's part of what makes shmups hard , boredom causes lack of focus , and so you die to easy avoidable attacks. Dealing with boredom is the greatest skill you develop as a hardcore shmup player.
>>6189920there is seething about the doom general though, and if there were an active fighting game community on /vr/ jarpigs would complain about that too.
>>6176284schmup is seriously one of the worst genres. It has it's place in history but it's on a rails shooter. It's not that fun dodging tiny bullets for hours on end.
>>6189926>there is seething about the doom general thoughbecause it's a general, not because it's a fps. >and if there were an active fighting game community on /vr/ jarpigs would complain about that too.nope, not a single complaint about it in this thread in contrast to the shump ones: >>6179952
>>6189929>It's not that fun dodging tiny bullets for hours on end.It's an addiction. Virtual achievement replaced tangible, authentic achievement and they are hooked. They compare getting good to mastering the piano and becoming a professional musician. But I don't see this in jrpg threads, they don't have delusions about their fake achievements. They know it's all only for fun and doesn't mean anything.
>>6189920>they're obnoxious mentally ill autists with a false sense of superiority.What are your shmup scores/clears then, if you think you're so much superior to the shmup autists you should be able to crush any shmup with ease, right?>yet they don't because the people that play those genres aren't nearly as autistic and obnoxiousI take it you've never stepped into /vg/'s fighting games general, eh.
>>6189945JRPGs dont replace achievement since they arent skill games, rather they replace experiences. Games like Persona are very explicit about this, they pander to friendless loners who want to emulate some kind of social circle or even romantic partners that they dont have. Shmup players dont compare their achievements to tangible ones they recognize that they are completely personal and have no greater value. You know why theres a lot of comparisons to things like music, sports and so on? Because many of us have those other hobbies and can recognize similarities in the learning process
>>6189959>I take it you've never stepped into /vg/'s fighting games general, eh.I have, those guys are hilarious and dont have fake genre wars and hateboners for jrpgs.>What are your shmup scores/clears then, if you think you're so much superior to the shmup autists you should be able to crush any shmup with ease, right?having a high score doesn't validate your spergy autism or make your genre better than another.>>6189970nice psychobabble Freud, now tell me why trannies love danmakus and pedophiles play touhou
>>6189823>this artificial opposition between JRPG people and shmup people is stupidit's not stupid, retro vidya poseurs latch on JRPG games because they're easiest to play (if they're not busy playing zelda/mario/metroid for 1000th time)
>>6189976What "spergy autism" are you talking about? Examples?
>>6189392If you're replying to the post I think you're replying then you're not replying to retardo you buffoon. But also since when is the discussion solely about difficulty? Not just that, but difficulty that's measured by certain hard spikes? First stages are great for demonstrating scoring depth, if a game has easy base difficulty but is extremely hard to max out which deep scoring games are, that's an indication of depth. A game can be really shallow and easy for most of its duration but have an insanely difficult 5 minutes that nobody can clear, I bet by your standards this would be the "same challenge" as a really deep scoring game and you'd see no problems with a design where anyone proficient has to sit through 30 minutes of boredom to get what they can often get in the first stages in deeper games.
>>6189976>now tell me why trannies love danmakus and pedophiles play touhouIsn't it obvious? Anime, trannies fucking LOVE anime. And guess which genre is the most deeply steeped in anime shit?
>>6189959i would need to dedicate a good portion of my life to these repetitive skinner boxes like you for that to happen, so no thank you. i have better things to do.>>6189970>You know why theres a lot of comparisons to things like music, sports and so on? Because many of us have those other hobbies and can recognize similarities in the learning processno you don't lmao. 'mastering' a shump is a completely rewardless experience unlike those things. nobody is going to think you're cool for being good at irrelevant games played by autists and you won't make any real money off it even if you get world records.
>>6189994>no you don't lmaoCope>'mastering' a shump is a completely rewardless experience unlike those thingsSure, but people don't engage in their hobbies just because of the rewards, they enjoy the process itself. Not to mention that says nothing about the validity of comparisons between the process.
>>6189981>What "spergy autism" are you talking about? Examples?see >>6189863 >>6189970 >>6189798Some guy shitposts into oblivion, gets banned and suddenly comes back complaining about the JRPG conspiracy. Then projecting about how much jrpg players "seethe" at shmup players?? lmao. Absolutely bonkers. When asked to stop being an obnoxious sperg he demands your "high scores"..I mean, 100+ spergy autism posts were deleted, with his fake genre wars, but you get the jist .
>>6190001One of the posts is mine and is a reasonable response to a post discussing why games appeal to people. I question your ability to make these judgements
Wait, is the "spergy autism" only referring to the fact that some shmup players shit talk JRPG's sometimes in shmup threads? Is that ALL you're upset about?
>>6190005> One of the posts is mine and is a reasonable response to a post discussing why games appeal to people. I question your ability to make these judgementsThen youre not free of autism either.All those posts are dumb as fuck, so is this one that misses the point entirely and asks some guy for his "high scores" lol >>6189959
>>6190012>150+ garbage posts deleted across multiple threads>same guy preaching his anti-jrpg nonsense, genre wars and persecution complex>is spergy autism just these few posts?Yes, ignore everything that happened before. Your conspiracy is CORRECT. You are the victim!
>>6190014So wait, you call shmup players "shmuptards" and then when they respond in kind you get upset and call it spergy autism? I see.
>>6190000>Sure, but people don't engage in their hobbies just because of the rewards, they enjoy the process itself.i.e they have severe mental illness. playing shumps is extremely unenjoyable for someone who doesn't have autism. they are way too simplistic and repetitive and require extreme amounts of route memorization. i don't think it's comparable to playing sports or music because those things aren't nearly as repetitive and memorization-heavy.
>>6190019>get called a shmuptard>start unpacking your JRPG conspiracy theories, fruedian psychoanalysis and asking for high scoresSorry your stupid bullshit doesn't add up.
>>6190018Retardo is hung up about RPG's and keeps bringing them up which is a bit annoying, so? The vast majority of his posts were on topic, and he doesn't shitpost outside of shmup threads. You really ARE just upset with your favorite genre getting shit talked, aren't you? I do wonder what kind of posts of yours would be deleted if you got IP banned, something tells me a fair bit of shitposting would be wiped from these threads. Hell, it already got minimized when the janny started deleting obvious anti-shmup shitposting without banning anyone to my knowledge.
>>6190021>i don't think it's comparable to playing sports or music because those things aren't nearly as repetitive and memorization-heavy.Lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gog7xtXvndI
>>6190025It's "freudian psychoanalysis" to point out that escapism based genres are enjoyed because they're escapism after someone theorizes that skill based games are about virtual achievements? Cmon
>>6190028having SOME route memorization =/= the entire thing being based around it. i'm sure a 5 hour practice is something completely irrelevant to a shumptard and you spend way more time memorizing shit in shumps than that. music and sports are more than just memorization unlike shumps. you know what, let's just forget about music and sports and look at multiplayer games like fighting games and fps: those require some memorization too, but you're going to have to apply what you learned in a dynamic way vs real people, not follow a set pattern.
>>6190030>playing a 40hour jrpg is lonely escapism!>sitting in my NEET basement grinding the same route for 10 years straight isn't escapism, it's totally cool and realistic and I totally don't jerk off to animelol
you know, I don't think I want to try to talk about shmups on 4chan anymore, I think I'll just enjoy them to myselfbetween shitposting and people's inability to restrain themselves from replying to obvious shitposts I swear
>>6190037>i'm sure a 5 hour practice is something completely irrelevant to a shumptardAre you stupid? You think this is a one time thing? You have to practice scales regularly to become a proficient player, apparently from what I've heard piano and violin are even more demanding and grind heavy. 5 hours of regular practice is a huge deal and will get you far in any game, it's not "irrelevant". Shmups can get really autistic at the highest levels true but that's not really relevant since there's a huge range of potential playstyles. Repetition is inherent to these kinds of skill based activities, if you can't derive some enjoyment from the grind you'll probably get crushed in the long term.
>>6190030It's psychobabble because you can find all sorts of weirdos playing every genre. JRPGs tell stories, you need characters for stories, the more likable they are the more enjoyable the experience. Calling this some sort of conspiracy to lure lonely retards is psychobabble. It lures normal people and retards because cool characters and romances are just appealing to most people, that's why stories like Romeo & Juliet still sell and are appealing.>>6190048at least if you learn the piano or guitar you can make a career out of it, and impress your family and friends, play at weddings or whatever. shmup players do all this grinding with no reward at the end, it's fine if you're 12 years old and have no direction in life, but it's autistic to do that as an adult. Better to play an rpg casually.
>>6190048yes, but the difference is that shumps are literally ONLY about memorization and repetition while music is a bit more than just that. it requires creativity and improvisation. you don't become a good composer just by memorizing scales.
>>6190052>this postWew, so how was retardo wrong when he said that jrpgfags shitpost shmup threads aggressively? You're literally the perfect example of this, pure mental illness
>>6190060Not only is that untrue, but that's irrelevant since the comparisons are between the LEARNING PROCESS of different hobbies, not what you get out of the hobby in the long term.
>>6190061> jrpgfags shitpost shmup threads aggressivelyHe's wrong because he initiated this and and his stooges begged for it >>6190030 >>6189970
>>6190063the learning process is similar, but the application is completely different. you aren't following a set pattern when composing music unlike playing a shump. the sports comparison is even more retarded, because the equivalent to them would absolutely be multiplayer games instead of shumps.
>>6190070Both of those posts are replies to people shit talking shmups anon. Did you notice how these posts pretty much disappeared once the janny deleted a couple and now the thread's flooded with them? In fact, what are you even doing in this thread if you hate shmups but love RPG's?>>6190072>the learning process is similar, but the application is completely differentThe application is always going to be different because they are different activities. The comparisons are usually between the learning process itself, that is someone will say "learning a shmup is like learning how to play a song" and so on. Also sports isn't just handegg and football, there are contests that are all about pushing your own physical performance like running.
>>6189918Put your name back on and divorce the butterface.>>6190052>impress your family and friendsThis is how JRPG players think, everybody. >at least if you learn the piano or guitar you can make a career out of itHahahaha.>all this grinding How ironic.Let me guess, you learned Japanese or at least considered it? You play on a small PVM instead of a big consumer set? You ate a microwave meal for dinner? You're overweight? You make less than six figures? You dream about the plots of your favorite JRPGs, saving princesses from dragons in fantasy lands? You can't notice input lag? I hit the nail on the head?
>>6190080>"learning a shmup is like learning how to play a song"yes, a song that someone else already composed, not something of your own creation, so don't say it's like 'music', because music is more than just being able to learn how to play existing songs.
>>6190080>just responding to other posts.You can respond without resorting to psychobabble that is easily disproven. And if you say the achievements are "personal" and have no greater value, then you're already agreeing with the guy who called them virtual. A personal achievement that is concrete goes beyond you and your subjective experience, it has tangible effects on others and aims for something higher. Shmup achievements are literally virtual and worthless, calling them personal is just cope, jerking off is a personal achievement if all you think about is pleasure.>are you even doing in this thread if you hate shmups but love RPG's?the issue is with shmup autists themselves, not any genre. It's not complicated.
>>6190087>>6190087lol @ these effeminate hysterics
>>6190087I'm with you mostly but nigger how many people on 4chan do you think make six figures
I just cannot consistently get this motherfucking face killed. I feel like I'm doing the exact same strategy - go up underneath one of the corners and unload and then follow it to the center and keep dumping before it closes - but sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, and I don't know why.
>>6190103There's some of us. Doesn't matter anyways, my post got deleted by babbage a minute after it was posted. I guess he just refreshes shmup threads angrily and arbitrarily deleting posts he doesn't like, whether or not they're as off-topic as his own.
>>6190112Dont go under directly. When you are fully powered up use your top and bottom diagonal shot to hit 2 pieces of its head. When it closes stay on the outside of his head and hit it the same way.
>>6190090I never disagreed that video games are about virtual achievements, where are you getting that? They're virtual achievements and experiences, some people use them as a replacement for real achievements and experiences in their empty lives, but that's a reflection of broader social problems rather than anything inherent in the style of games
>>6190112I found that strategy less reliable than the diagonal shot one, just make sure you're letting him sandwich you for a while, don't move outside until you absolutely have to
This shit is driving me out of my goddamn mind. Now my ship keeps flying underneath the middle platform. I have to time the enemies so that I can have this motherfucker show up before the platform appears so I can shoot him without flying underneath, and also still get the Z panel on the left side. I'm going to fucking kill myself.
>>6190167>one round enemy sneaks through the gaps in your shots and blind spots and delays the midbossMore like shit soldier
>>6190167Stay next to him and you wont have that problem. Check the replay. https://streamable.com/jwy7u
>>6190167you're overthinking, and that's bad for this genre.just copy a route and grind it until you get sick, >>6190182
>>6190182You got the boss to spawn way earlier than I ever have.
>>6190204Yeah you really need to quick kill enemies to get him to spawn quick. I've noticed the quicker you kill shit the more enemies spawn in some areas too.
>>6190198As a matter of fact, I've never cleared all of the blue enemies in the third wave, or killed all of the enemies as quickly as you have.
>>6190204You need a route, especially against those pink enemies when the environment starts fucking with you. The last 2 waves before the boss can be really unpredictable though since they mix with the environment in various annoying ways
>>6190206Are you sure that you're playing with really high autofire rates? Some emulators have low default autofire rate and you need to adjust it
>>6190198I realize that this is meant to be an ironic post, but I will say that a big part of the fun of this for me is discovering a strategy but by bit. I'm cool with asking for help or looking at clips to get a sense of what higher level play involves or ideas to clear tricky parts, but the thought of sitting down and studying someone else's game to copy it verbaitun sounds fucking horrendous, and I am fully willing to accept being nowhere near the top of the board if that's the price I'll have to pay for having a game that feels like it's my own.
>>6190198since you have some experience can I ask when do these games get fun? I've been grinding stages for a dozen hours in DDP and so far it's awful
>>6190213>but the thought of sitting down and studying someone else's game to copy it verbaitun sounds fucking horrendousNobody does this, that's not only extremely dull but also extremely difficult. What happens is players reference some parts of good replays while working on a game on their own and incorporate little improvements here and there gradually as their skill and knowledge improves. Don't take non-player claims seriously
>>6190214>when does DDP get funMaybe stage 6? It's just a badly paced game and first loop is a snoozer.
>>6190213Yeah dont copy 1 to 1. Just look at the essential tricks for the bonuses and find your own route. That replay took me 4 hours to get down and I feel like it can be a lot more optimized by better players (I've only cleared maybe 5 shmups).
>>6190216>Nobody does thisMaybe nobody copies the entire route from start to finish, but they definitely copy chunks and sections, and those sections could take dozens of hours of tedious grinding and repetition. So he is right in a sense.
>>6190209I do have a basic idea of what enemies will come from where and where I should be for every wave leading up to the face, if that's what you mean. But there's a good amount of randomness that makes the pink enemies in particular capable of being pretty vicious, combined with the powerups not floating where I want them to all the time. Also, past the face, I have a lot less familiarity and the level gets a lot more chaotic to read, so I don't have much of a plan. >>6190212I never considered this, funnily enough. I'll have to check next time.
For me select is autofire and I didn't have to enable it through retroarch or anything. I just rebinded it to a button on my stick.
>>6190220Well obviously improvement requires a lot of practice, how do you think this "copying" happens though? It's not as though they open a video and frame by frame copy it, the players usually already have a strong foundation, they know the stages, understand the scoring systems and have their own routes, then they adjust their existing routes based on things they pick up from replays. This also changes based on skill level, if you're mechanically shit then borrowing difficult routes will be too much for you, and if you lack knowledge about how the game works then you won't pick up on the subtle details of the replays.
>>6190234>Stating the obviousOk. It's still boring af
>>6190245Then don't do it, many people find improving enjoyable and learning from others is an effective way to improve
2 MINUTE342900 - Cave owns bitch
>>6190253>many people find improving enjoyable and learning from others is an effective way to improveThen why aren't many people improving and enjoying shmups?
>>6190226As far as I know the only random thing is when they shoot, but you can kill them before they start shooting. The thing to watch out for is the skulls and power up boxes that block your shots, I always make sure to create a gap on both sides and shoot them through that.
>>6190261Well, the people who like seriously improving are a minority in all games, shmups aren't popular for several reasons but mainly because they don't help the player much at all. It's just you and the game, and they have no things like social elements of over-arching progression to encourage players to stick around despite struggles. That's part of the appeal though, they respect the player to come to the games, willingly play them and improve on their own terms.
>>6190261because they're designed as if they are speedrunning games, where you make a very static route and follow it over and over, and little mistakes are punished severely. So the overall experience is not enjoyable to people looking for a challenge or depth.
>get btfo by shmups>eternally seethe about the genre and attack the people who enjoy themnever change /vr/niggersoh, and jrpg's are still worthless trash
>>6190234Dont bother. This has been argued over and over. There is like one are two seething shitposters who just screech the same thing in every shmup thread. Just ignore them and dont feed them (You)s.
>>6190262If we're talking about the pink enemies that show up after the blue Xs right around the first powerups, whether they appear at the right or left of the screen coming from the bottom seems random, similar to what direction the first wave of the first stage comes from. >CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 344900 - shmupg gang3. 342900 - Cave owns bitch4. 333100 - jarpig5. 255200 - Character O6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 227500 - Ricardo3. 137900 - Character O>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
There's a 2-player shmup I remember playing way back when on the Super Nintendo, but I can't seem to find any info on it. My memory's spotty on it so I might just have some stuff wrong, but one of you could have an idea what I might have played:It had a vertical layout, and there was an ability meter of some kind alongside an equipable power. I can recall a really weak, energy-cheap, screen-wide flash that did a little damage to everything, and a super fuck-off beam that took a huge amount of energy (if not the entire meter) to use.
>>6191132They always appear on the side of the screen opposite to where you are when they spawn2 MINUTE346500 - Cave owns bitchNLM's score is quite good, that 2000+ point gap is much bigger than it seems
The man who fights for Cave's honor claws his way into second! But the 5 minute boards stay barely touched. Will everyone remain content playing the qualifying round? >CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 346500 - Cave owns bitch3. 344900 - shmupg gang4. 333100 - jarpig5. 255200 - Character O6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 227500 - Ricardo3. 137900 - Character O>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
>>6189783the blittering feature? it works but inaccurate, like a slowdown supposed to be happen on spot A but it happened on spot B or C insteadwhat's worse is no slowdown case at all, a clear example is on dfkbl stage 1 midboss
Fucking finally. Turns out my autofire really wasn't at max speed. I'm surprised how much easier it all was once I cranked that bitch up.>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 346500 - Cave owns bitch3. 344900 - shmupg gang4. 335500 - Character O5. 333100 - jarpig6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 227500 - Ricardo3. 137900 - Character O>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
Now that I know how to get all of the bonuses on stage 1, I'll start grinding out stage 2. I think I'm going to have the competition for this one be one week rather than two, so the new deadline will be February 15.>CURRENT BOARDS:>2 MINUTE1. 348900 - NLM2. 346500 - Cave owns bitch3. 344900 - shmupg gang4. 335500 - Character O5. 333100 - jarpig6. 205900 - Ricardo7. 42700 - Feetsies>5 MINUTE1. 910400 - shmupg gang2. 357300 - Character O3. 227500 - Ricardo>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS1. 88 - higgins.jpg2. 86 - Character O
>>6191982create a thread dedicated to it. hopefully more people will see it and try it out
>>6191987Yeah, I might as well do that. I'll link the new thread in here.
Here's the standalone thread: >>6192049