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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 132 KB, 220x311, 220px-Raiden_arcadeflyer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6144332 No.6144332 [Reply] [Original]

I want to 1cc either this or 2, thoughts on both?
Tips on 1ccing?

>> No.6144339

>>6144332
Play a Toaplan shmup instead.
Rayden sucks.

>> No.6144345

>>6144339
Why does it suck?

>> No.6144345,1 [INTERNAL] 

You might want to try the MD Raiden.

They're "shit" cause they have lives, but recoveries are sometimes literally impossible when playing the checkpoint versions/sides. Somewhat less the case with the MD port of 1. Anyway the designers of Kyukyoku Tiger (the Toaplan game Raiden is a shameless copy of) explicitly stated that recoveries and checkpoints were very thought out and the core of the design. Something Raiden never got "right". But if you can accept it for what it is (one life game with a preview of the next n frames before you formally lose your credit) then it is quite fine.

>> No.6144605

>>6144332
>Tips on 1ccing?
Get savestates, load a savestate after a spot where you die a lot and have to repeat, apply structured practice to all portions of the game. Eventually you will have to autistically restart the game until you actually get good on early parts. You also shouldn't 1cc because it's for speedrunning autists.

>> No.6144610

>>6144605
I thought scoring was the autist venture

>> No.6144648

>>6144610
Sort of. Surviving is about making up strats just to stay alive as you play normally / use savestates. Scoring is exactly like speedrunning, you research a route aka run of some autist who played before you, if you're very autistic you improve the route, if not you just get a shit score / time and quit.

Neither is harder you could be doing yourself a disservice not learning the route by making up strats, or it might be too hard to get anywhere in your lifetime. All depends on game.

>> No.6144782

>>6144610
You're not gonna find some crazy deep scoring system in fucking Raiden.

>> No.6145364

>>6144332
Just play it. You need to learn the patterns and map out a route. I usually do 1 credit runs as far as I can and then switch over to practicing each level and boss until I am consistent. Then I go back to full runs.

GLHF

>> No.6145382

you have to admit a shmup where the mortal kombat character raiden flew around and zapped things would be pretty neat

>> No.6145383

>>6144339
raiden is literally the toaplan shmup perfected

>> No.6145391

>>6145383
>>6144345
Raiden has a lot of these weird errors that should not be in any game. Alone, these don't immediately sound like a huge problem, but they're not alone. There are TONS of them, and they all add up.

1. Arbitrary player side differences that always benefit P2.
2. Frame-perfect powerup cycles. You have to spawn the item at the right time and collect it at the right time every time.
3. This is on top of most powerups being placed specifically to trap the player.
4. This is on top of power level being dependent on picking up the same item repeatedly. I really don't understand this downgrade at all, Toaplan solved this shit from the start, and even Tatsujin Ou and Kyukyoku Tiger II (released after Raiden) never really made the Raiden system feel miserable.
5. Don't even get me started on how Raiden basically undid every previous attempt to actually throw the player a bone when they died.
6. Then you have the fairy rose thing being a gigantic middle finger to the player. It's not worth trying to figure it out when powerups literally stack on top of each other.
7. Also, weird and dumb version differences leading to some having checkpoints and some not. Also, checkpoints fucking suck in this game because of point #5, still to a degree higher than things like Kyukyoku Tiger or Tatsujin Ou (I really don't understand why Tatsujin Ou has multiple Raiden errors in it)
8. No autofire by default, in a game where autofire is extremely important. Toaplan games didn't have this dependence on autofire, and when they did (Grind Stormer, Tatsujin Ou) they put autofire in the damned game by default.

>> No.6145392

>>6145391
9. Because there's no autofire by default, not allowing it (a real scenario that is worth considering) makes the red weapon is almost useless instead of being the only real hope you have. This is even worse in the first Raiden, because at least in II, the purple weapon is an acceptable alternative.
10. Random medals. Literally random medals, it's ridiculous.
11. Raiden II introduced a second bomb type that complicates the entire bomb system. The new type is more obviously helpful, so you wanna pick P2 because it starts with them, and you also gotta deal with point #2 with regards to bomb drops, never mind the bizarre way bomb items bounce around the screen, and if you fuck up at any point you really hurt your score because of the excess bomb bonus that only applies if all bombs are the same type. Or you can die. You can absolutely die, and ruin your score even harder.

I KNOW I'm forgetting something. But you see the point: Raiden is a needlessly frustrating game with every minor detail, and other games simply were not like this for the most part. Raiden III did something about nearly all of these, and it's a significantly better game for it. Even got rid of looping, which actually works in its favor because scoring now matters instead of it devolving into seeing how many loops you can stand (until you reach 10M which is the point where Japan stops caring). Want loop 2 in Raiden III? Pick one of the higher difficulties, like you're fucking supposed to.

This isn't about the game being difficult, you can totally do that without all these weird issues. Sniper tanks, fast bullets, slow movement, the memorization focus, those things are fine and are not the problem. Later Raidens have these things for the most part... Raiden V has a faster ship although it also has a bigger play area, and Raiden IV at least has the Raiden III ship in it (as DLC, of course, because Raiden IV is kinda dumb).

Seriously, fuck Raiden and Raiden II/DX.

>> No.6145409

>>6145392
Wolflame's also an example of a game that preserves a lot of the good difficulty like sniper tanks, fast as fuck bullets, etc. without keeping all of the needlessly frustrating shit

>> No.6145413

>>6145392
I was about to come down on you and say that Raiden III kicks ass, but these are all really good points and also you recognize that Raiden III kicks ass.

>> No.6145557

>>6145391
>>6145392
Well fuck Raiden then, but it's one of the few shmups at my arcade and I wanted to 1cc it
What would be the best out of
>Shienryu
>Genkiridan
>Macross Plus
>Raystorm
>Tatsujin
>Blazing Star

>> No.6145569

>>6145557
Geki is a pretty easy and simple 1cc, if you're just starting out with shmups go with that.

>> No.6145609

>>6145413
3d shoot em ups are so ugly looking though.

>> No.6146219

>>6145391
>>6145392
>player side differences
So? P2 is slightly easier to play and a blue ship. If you want red and a bit harder go P1, wtf is the problem? Lots of shmups have tiny P2 side differences, even DDP.

>frame-perfect powerup cycle
Powerups hover on the screen for a minute or so and they alternate every 6 or 7 seconds. A "frame" is 16ms, wtf are you talking about "frame-perfect cycles"? All your points are utter bullshit since raiden is totally inspired by old school toaplan shooters which is exactly what it's striving for, and what it attains. And it plays super tight if only you bothered to learn how to route it and when it's safe to get powerups and when it's not.

>3, 4, 5,6,7
All basically whining because you suck at checkpoint shmups with powerup pickups. Ok we get it, go credit feed some easy shit up to stage 3 then think up excuses to justify quitting and hopping to a different shmup.

>>6145392
>no autofire by default
arcade owners would put autofire on cabinets anyway, every serious player makes their own autofire macro accordingly, all shmups have autofire world records, this is a pleb complaint that newbs make about shmups in general. Funny how you're picking on raiden specifically for this...

>I KNOW I'm forgetting something. But you see the point: Raiden is a needlessly frustrating game with every minor detail
>This isn't about the game being difficult, you can totally do that without all these weird issues. Sniper tanks, fast bullets, slow movement, the memorization focus, those things are fine and are not the problem.
Those are the problems because you want to go to the top of the screen like a goofball to get a pickup as soon as it appears and then get sniped lmao


It's okay to not play Raiden, it's got a unique style, but don't spread bullshit about it to new players as if you know what you're talking about retard. Raiden 1 still gets huge play by the best of the best players, WTN is still looping it for fun.

>> No.6146220

>>6146219
You sound more knowledgeable than that other guy, should I be practicing Raiden 1 or 2 for 1cc?

>> No.6146224
File: 528 KB, 1200x630, Sky-Shark-OG-Image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6146224

>>6144332
>I want to 1cc either this or 2, thoughts on both?
>>6145557
Try Genkiridan or Vimana.
Then try Flying Shark (Hishouzame), Batsugun or Tatsujin.
Then once you're comfortable with old school style shmups you can graduate to Raiden.

>> No.6146226

>>6146220
Can't you just use savestates to test the games and decide whether you want to commit to them or not on your own? You indecisive bitch. No one can tell you that, and you have to spend some time playing to figure it out

>> No.6146228

>>6146220
Check the Jap Difficulty list here https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1157621

Raiden 1CC is listed as 24, Raiden 2 1CC is listed as 30. These are not friendly for new players.

Try shmups that are sub 15 if you are starting out. I recommend >>6146224

>> No.6146238

>>6146224
This except skip the "graduate to Raiden" part, because Raiden games are utter trash.

>> No.6146245

check this bullet speed out lmao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-m7jU5oqi4

>> No.6146249

>>6146238
nah if he ever gits gud at shmups he'll want something more challenging, and for traditional style shmups that means Raiden series. Or Same!^3,or maybe the Strikers games, and they all have their ways of beating the shit out of players and being frustrating.

>> No.6146250

>>6146249
Can always just move on to Tatsujin Ou

>> No.6146272

>>6146250
that's a good one too, but the pacing isn't great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shhk239SeTs

>> No.6146412
File: 35 KB, 500x500, 1579355559526.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6146412

NOOO YOU CAN'T PLAY RAIDEN IT'S TOO HARD!!!

>> No.6146593

goddamn this thread is good

>> No.6147421
File: 186 KB, 320x320, fire_shiggy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6147421

>>6146412
>he thinks liking poorly and frustratingly designed game makes him cool

>> No.6147912

>genkiridan is an easy shmup
>keep dying to stage 2 blimpy boy

>> No.6147954

>>6147912
Lol