Majora's Meme

[Anonymous No.6114613]

Do any of you guys actually believe that Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game?

As far as I can make out this meme gained traction when pbg made his original top 10 zelda list; while he acknowledges this video was shit he still puts Majora at #1.

It seems wrong to me to rank MM above A Link to the Past, Ocarina, or even Twilight Princess.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.6114627]

>>6114613
are you speaking on your own or did AVGN tickled you to post this?

[Anonymous No.6114632]

>>6114613
You’re seriously out of touch if you think Majora’s Masks popularity stems from a YouTuber.

[Anonymous No.6114634]

>>6114627
I have ranted about this for the past couple of years, although I was presently surprised by AVGN putting out an episode running counter to the "best Zelda" narrative. Although I'm glad (as with Chex Quest) that he didn't shit on it too hard as it's still a great game at the end of the day.

Your opinion on the game?

[Anonymous No.6114636]

>>6114632
I didn't say so in that many words. I mainly have seen zoomers and some of my peers go for this when I feel like they're just saying it because muh youtube rather than as someone who has played all the games and is making an educated judgment.

Hence, I'm asking actual retro game fans. I take it you like Majora's Mask the best? If so, for what reasons?

[Anonymous No.6114637]

>>6114613
It had the most soul

[Anonymous No.6114641]

>>6114634
im very biased as I love it as a grim dark masterpiece that came out of literally nowhere... at least conceptually speaking.

seeing the avgn going thru some real issues with the water temple 2.0 opened my eyes to why I havent revisited the game at all after 100% it.

it was one of the very few games that I 100% without any guide as a kid so i'm very fond of it.

[Anonymous No.6114647]

>>6114613
Also, i fucking hate TP, it wants to be Ocarina so bad till it tries tropes outta MM and ends off being the edgiest Zelda.

The Spinning Top deserved better than being just a dungeon gimmick.

[Anonymous No.6114650]

>>6114637
define "soul?"

[Anonymous No.6114653]

>>6114650
don't feed the trolls

[Anonymous No.6114657]

>>6114627
I was catching up on AVGN episodes but I found them really boring. I don't like most of his new ones, especially the Jurrassic Park one, so I skipped the Majora's Mask episode.
Was that episode like Zelda 2 where he says it's a weird request but he still reviews it?

[Anonymous No.6114658]

I don't personally believe it's the best, but it is still very good and completely unique in atmosphere & structure so I can understand how others would feel that way about it.

[Anonymous No.6114659]

>>6114647
I can see where you are coming from on TP, although I would say it borrows less from MM than it just tries to out-edge it. It still has the chops to be a great game, although as you point out some aspects are clearly tacked-on. However, the stallord boss fight is the best in all of Zelda in my opinion, which redeems the spinner somewhat.

[Anonymous No.6114662]

>>6114657
No, he plays it straight and airs out some valid frustrations with the game while true to form exaggerating how much they drag the game down.

[Anonymous No.6114669]

>>6114636
Oh okay, I get what you’re saying. Some of MM’s popularity today does stem from Ben Drowned, “Termina is purgatory”, “Link is dead in MM”, etc. That’s mostly a younger crowd that wasn’t even born at the time it was released. I did play it on release, though. I liked it for its oddity. It even scared me when I was younger. Hard to say if I prefer it over OOT. OOT is a bit longer and insanely memorable, but I might give the edge to MM. I guess it all depends on if you like side quests or not.

[Anonymous No.6114671]

>>6114641
Fair points.

I see the Great Bay Temple shit on a lot but my main objection to it is the bone fish freak me the fuck out. I would rather play through it than the OOT one.

I do think the deku palace and stone tower drag a bit though.

Also: that's a lot of skultulla hunting! Damn.

[Anonymous No.6114679]

>like the game when it comes out
>20 years later people are telling me I only like the game because of ecelebs and memes

[Anonymous No.6114691]

MM is tied with Zelda 2 for my favorite game in the series.

If you asked what I like about it I’d say that it has the strongest atmosphere in the series, the most well balanced combat of the 3D games, and the small number of dungeons it does have all rank up there as some of the absolute best in the series.

I think it has the most fun character movement in the entire zelda series, with the transformations and bunny mask, the game is just a joy to move through.

Adding temporal exploration on top of spatial exploration is a fantastic twist, and the time limit adds a wonderful amount of stress. Really highlights that there’s some things you can only achieve with interactive entertainment, and does it in an incredibly unique way.

It firmly has the secondbest overworld of all the 3D games after only BOTW. Termina field is not the overworld, just a central hub. Compare the swamp, mountains, bay and ikana to OOT’s hyrule field, lake, and small number of roads, and MM clearly comes out on top as a vast improvement. Each area in MM is a playground that is fun to traverse in different ways with different forms. They also have the best enemy density and variety of all the 3D Zeldas.

I think it goes without saying MM has some of the strongest sidequests in the series.

On the downside, it’s sometimes an unnecessarily time consuming game to play. I recognize that, and think its strengths vastly outshine this problem. I also think this is mostly only a problem if you lack time management skills, as there is almost always multiple things you could be doing while waiting for some pivotal moment. Once you have the goron, restocking bombs and arrows takes like 10-20 seconds of rolling around termina field. That’s not an exaggeration.

All in all I consider it a fine, fine fucking game. I could keep going on about what I like, but this is the basic gist.

[Anonymous No.6114698]

>>6114613
ALTTP/LA/OOT/MM is the golden age of the series, though you can feel a bit of the dropoff in MM since it was scrambled together in just a year
Oracles were also good but they're more like the silver age in comparison

[Anonymous No.6114702]

>>6114691
>Once you have the goron, restocking bombs and arrows takes like 10-20 seconds of rolling around termina field. That’s not an exaggeration.

I see you're not a retard as well.

[Anonymous No.6114720]

>>6114698
I mostly agree but if any Zelda era is the silver age it's the original 2 on NES.

[Anonymous No.6114724]

>>6114691
You have made a pretty persuasive argument why Majora's Mask is the best 3D Zelda. Now how the hell do you square that with Zelda II? LOL

[Anonymous No.6114726]

>>6114698
Mm being developed in a year left it with some rough edges, I feel that enhance the whole experience.

Especially when you compare it to the 3d remake, which had an number of awful changes because someone was apparently unsatisfied with the initial release.

[Anonymous No.6114728]

>>6114724

MM doesn't suck

[Anonymous No.6114770]

>>6114613
MM is overrated. It's good but not great.

[Anonymous No.6114773]

>>6114613
pbg?

[Anonymous No.6114780]

>>6114773
Peanut Butter Lamer

[Anonymous No.6114802]

overrated but with some cool things in it like earthbound

[Anonymous No.6114809]

Ban eceleb threads

[Anonymous No.6114829]

>>6114809

see:
>>6114634
>>6114636

[Anonymous No.6114847]

>>6114691
Exquisite post

[Anonymous No.6114851]

>>6114829
Should've started the thread a different way other than

'WELL I GUESS EVERYONE WHO LOVES THIS GAME SINCE 20 YEARS AGO ARE REPEATING WHAT AN UNKNOWN YOUTUBER SAID'

[Anonymous No.6114856]

>>6114851
I'll own that.

ALTTP is the best Zelda though.

[Anonymous No.6114885]

>>6114724
Zelda 2 is just an awesome action game. The number one problem people have with it is that it was too hard, but honestly, for an NES game its difficulty isn’t all that exceptional.

The sword/shield play is simple but surprisingly engaging once you get going.

It has a surprisingly strong mood, it feels very post-apoc and you can see how people are just starting to really rebuild after zelda 1. There’s a pair of utterly massive graveyards which is really cool, and sailing to that new continent was an amazing surprise. Monsters look really cool. Nice color pallet. Just a cool game overall, closest zelda ever really got to being something I’d call badass.

Despite being one of my faves I dont have a ton to say about it. I like it so much because it’s a zelda that consistently gives me an adrenaline rush, I guess. Just an awesome action game that’s fun and exciting to play.
Only played it like threeish years ago so there’s no nostalgia bias here either.

Criminally underrated game, honestly.

[Anonymous No.6114896]

>>6114613
>pbg
literally who and go back

[Anonymous No.6114898]

>>6114885
I would agree Zelda II is a great game (I don't think you mentioned the awesome music!) but at the risk of sounding cliche I would still hold that it's not that great of a Zelda game. Although being badass is low on my list of Zelda priorities.

[Anonymous No.6114916]

>>6114613
>some youtuber popularized a zelda game on n64
Delusional zoomer.

[Anonymous No.6114923]

>>6114662
You mean playing like an absolute retard?

[Anonymous No.6114927]

>>6114898
Yeah, it's one of the best Zelda games.

[Anonymous No.6114936]

>>6114613
>do any of you guys think this is the best?
>personally i think that e-celeb-
Shut the fuck up don't ever post again go the fuck back to /v/ and fucking stay there until you magically become able to have an independent thought. Stop lowering the quality of this board with your presence, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.6114938]

>>6114613
>Do any of you guys actually believe that Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game?
Not sure, it's up there for sure.
>As far as I can make out this meme gained traction when pbg made his original top 10 zelda list;
What the fuck are you talking about. E-celeb shit has nothing to do with people liking Zelda games.
>It seems wrong to me to rank MM above A Link to the Past, Ocarina, or even Twilight Princess.
ALTTP or OOT sure, those are kind of like the gold-standard Zelda experiences, but TP? I dunno.
MM is definitely a cool strange twin sister of OOT, so yeah it's definitely great.

[Anonymous No.6114943]

>meme gained traction when pbg made his original top 10 zelda list
How young are you?

[Anonymous No.6114960]

>>6114923
No, if he was doing that he'd say the game was the best game ever.

[Anonymous No.6114970]

>>6114613
It was my favourite Zelda game since its release, and is my number two favourite game of all time.

[Anonymous No.6114971]

>>6114898
Oh for sure, it’s practically almost a spinoff as far as I’m concerned.

[Anonymous No.6114985]

>>6114885
>>6114898
>>6114971
>it's a "Zelda 2 is a good game, but not a good Zelda game" memepost
when zelda 2 came out, how many zelda games were there to compare it to?

[Anonymous No.6114991]

>>6114985
>it’s a “Zelda 2 felt like a real zelda at the time” post
I agree with you, but in the present the game is definitely an outlier.

[Anonymous No.6114996]

>>6114636
MM is my favorite because it feels like a darker, mores aesthetically polished version of OoT, which I love to death.
I also love it for how it's world moves and changes independantly of the player. It adds a depth I've yet to see replicated in any other game, let alone a Zelda game.
Also MM's versions of a lot of the series' staple items look sick as fuck, like the bow and hookshot. it's own new items look pretty cool too, I especially like the Gilded Sword's design.

[Anonymous No.6114997]

>>6114991
Not really. It's the groundwork all the later ones were built on.

[Anonymous No.6115000]

>>6114636
Well you're full of shit. I'm not going to be as kind as the other posters, I'm calling you out for false alleging that it's a youtuber/zoomer thing which is utter bullshit and rather demonstrates a huge gap in your own knowledge of retro gaming. As bad as meme youtubers are, using them as a criticism against games you don't like is just as bad.

[Anonymous No.6115140]

>>6114991
Other than the sidescrolling gameplay (ignoring that zelda 1 and later games like the oracles had sidescrolling sections) there are a lot of elements that survived zelda 2, like the magic system, certain sword techniques and so on.

[Anonymous No.6115191]

>>6114636
MM isn't the best to me, it just stands out because it does so many interesting things. Like someone else said in this thread, it came out of nowhere.

I stopped playing Zelda games after TP, and most of them were extremely similar and kind of pointless to judge against one another. OoT is better than WW and TP because they do basically the same thing, and Nintendo's idea of innovation was using the same formula with a couple new gimmicks. I also rate 2D titles separately from 3D.

[Anonymous No.6115204]

its got the most interesting world of all Zelda games
best side quests + rewards
4 well designed dungeons
4 playable characters

[Anonymous No.6115205]

>>6114613
Who the fuck is pbg? Personally I think it’s the best Zelda for multitude of reasons. My favourite music, story, gameplay.

[Anonymous No.6115278]

>>6114613
I think that Majoras Mask has always had the “Empire Strikes Back” effect, where people has been more appreciative of it as time goes on and it remains kind of tonally and stylistically unique.

[Anonymous No.6115279]

>>6114679
welcome to retro /v/

[Anonymous No.6115302]

>>6114698
OoT really felt like the best thing that could be achieved back in 1998 (even if it lacks the depth of PC games of the time).

[Anonymous No.6115609]

>>6114960
Struggling to defeat a dungeon in 3 hours, being unable to walk in a straight line and complaining about having to get first in a race is pretty retarded. Worst of all was the dungeon heart container complaint. You don't need to fight the boss again if you go back to the boss room on the same 3 day cycle and the first room of the dungeon has a teleporter to the boss room so that was just complete bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6115625]

>>6115609
Who even unless they are doing a 3 heart run misses a heart at the end of a dungeon

[Anonymous No.6115635]

>>6114613
I played majoras mask first therefore its better.

[Anonymous No.6115808]

>>6114613
I believe Majora's is the best along with Ocarina and Breath of the Wild at the top, but that's for 3D Zelda. I don't like comparing 2D and 3D Zelda. As for Twilight Princess I rate it near the bottom middle with Skyward Sword, and Wind Waker somewhere in the middle near high tier.

[Anonymous No.6115831]

Majora’s was the “contrarian” answer for most of the 2000s, long before whatever zoomer YouTube fag you’re alluding to was relevant. It was repeated so much for so long that it went from actual contrarian answer to genuinely popular answer, although the people who express that opinion still consider they’re brave heroes for thinking it and are 2smart4u

[Anonymous No.6115837]

>>6114691
the problem with Majora's Mask is that is lacking in the 'fun' factor. everything you do in that game feels like a chore.

the music is certainly not better than OOT. clock town theme makes me want to blow my brains out. same with deku palace.

there nothing really beginner friendly about MM. you can't just pick up and play it and have a fun organic experience of it without prior zelda experience. even a skilled Zelda player coming in hot after OOT will find most of the tasks and mini games absolutely tedious.

the environments feel claustrophobic and inorganic. termania field just doesn't feel all that vast and open.

i love this game and play through it every couple years or so. i agree with all the positive points youve made also.

it deserves the criticism and praise it gets.

OOT is a pure, polished, beautiful, joyful, experience for everyone

MM is mysterious, dark, complicated, austere, mind-breaking game that will seriously test your patience as a gamer

[Anonymous No.6115843]

>>6115837
>mysterious, dark, complicated, austere, mind-breaking

[Anonymous No.6115929]

>>6115843
fuck you buddy

[Anonymous No.6116007]

>>6115837
>the music is certainly not better than OOT.
This needs to be emphasized. Yes, Majora's Mask is purposefully discordant and off-key, but even when you sound like shit on purpose, you still sound like shit.

[Anonymous No.6116056]

>>6115837
>everything you do in that game feels like a chore.
>will find most of the tasks and mini games absolutely tedious.
How? I keep hearing this parroted around the site but I'm replaying the game now and each cycle is basically me doing new stuff and running around exploring each area. There are a couple issues in the game for sure, aiming the bow still sucks and I'm making a point to drop any and all cash I get into the bank because of that ridiculous 5000 rupee side quest. But the quests that require aiming to a fine degree can be counted on 1 hand and the game isn't tedious because of their inclusion.

The only way I could ever see this making sense is if someone is so bad at time management that they don't get any of the items that shortcut their progress in later loops. Because it seems that people treat the resets like a total reset and thus the game makes you repeat entire sequences of gameplay they should normally be skipped on subsequent loops. The only things that are hard coded to be repetitive is fighting bosses to progress a region, and it's only really Snowpeak that needs a couple resets as it's got the Goron Race Track, the sword upgrade, and Don Gero's side quest. Great Bay doesn't get any new content from it's post-dungeon state. And Ikana valley I'm also sure you can also do everything regardless of whether the dungeon is cleared or not.

What about the game is actually tedious to you? Because there's enough content that you'll realistically be doing something different each time you play the song of time all the way to the end of the game.

[Anonymous No.6116125]

>>6116056
>Great Bay doesn't get any new content from it's post-dungeon state. And Ikana valley I'm also sure you can also do everything regardless of whether the dungeon is cleared or not.

Great bay has the jumping game, which offers a heart piece

[Anonymous No.6116134]

>>6115837
>the environments feel claustrophobic and inorganic. termania field just doesn't feel all that vast and open.

Are you stupid? Did you know that the reason termina field feels small is because it actually is small? And that the reason that it doesn't feel as open is because not only is it smaller, but because clock town is smack dap in the center of it? Amazing, I know.

[Anonymous No.6116147]

>>6116125
>Great bay has the jumping game
Thank you, I forgot about that.

[Anonymous No.6116172]

I've prefered it since like, 2001? OOT's dungeons and content are so much better than OOT, which is boring and empty by comparison. There are actual side quests strewn throughout the game, which if you remember where they are and the earliest you can do them, enrichen the experience beyond going from dungeon to dungeon. OOT's dungeons are boring as fuck and simple, and only get good with the Spirit, Fire and MAYBE water (if you're not a brainlet) Temples. MM doesn't have the horrible pacing and hand-holding of TP as well, which is one of the worst Zelda's.

LTTP is probably as good or maybe better, but MM has a lot of LTTP's strengths; the dense overworld, decent dungeons (though they are short), and lots of hidden items. MM is the best 3D Zelda hands down, because it operates closer to a 2D Zelda's formula with the overworld and content.

[Anonymous No.6116181]

>>6116172
> OOT's dungeons and content are so much better than OOT

Fuck it, I meant MM's dunegons are better than OOT's, half of which are filler like the utter shit child dungeons.

[Anonymous No.6116271]

>>6115837
Music is subjective, though honestly I agree oot’s is better

Personally I like there being nothing beginner friendly about mm. It’s a sequel to what was one of the most widely played games, and is clearly intended to be played as a sequel. I’d consider this one of its divisive strengths.

The claustrophobic feel is a plus for me, and I think it’s inline with the game’s mood. And despite that mood there’s often two or three paths you can take from each room.

I’d say its inconveniences come mostly from having to wait for shit, and from having unskippable cutscenes that sometimes get repeated. And of course having to redo most of a dungeon if you cant oneshot it in time. Fucking stone tower temple.

[Anonymous No.6116275]

>>6114613
Most Zelda fans are women, fags and trannies and just like what they're told to by the loudest ralking asshole on youtube. That's literally it.

As for the rest of us, we all know that Link's Awakening DX is the best Zelda.

[Anonymous No.6116284]

My opinion is fact and yours is wrong.

[Anonymous No.6116402]

>>6114613
My opinion is biased, back when they were fresh and I was a kid I thought OoT was better. 20 years later, after replaying each game 1000x, I think Majora has more replayability.

[Anonymous No.6116406]

It was never unpopular, the game sold pretty well and reception from fans and critics were very positive. It was just a title released late into the N64's lifespan and required an add-on to play. Also it came out on the same day as the PS2 in NA.

[Anonymous No.6116435]

>>6116271
No music in OoT even comes close to Deku Palace theme, Stone Tower., Astral Observatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2foI62hzyQ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_NK5HgR6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxbCEfPeANo

[Anonymous No.6116503]

>>6116406
Sales were a letdown compared to oot. Which is a high standard sure, but this is a direct sequel.

It was more successful than the average game but compared to expectations it underperformed financially. People have always been divided on this one, it’s not really right to say it was popular or unpopular, it was always mixed. Like most zelda games, honestly.

[Anonymous No.6116504]

>>6114613
MM was good for what it was, it had some interesting ideas, but it was basically a romhack of OoT.

[Anonymous No.6116509]

>>6114613
Who is pbg?

[Anonymous No.6116552]

>>6116504
>basically a romhack
This is a single digit iq post

[Anonymous No.6117287]

>>6116134
>termania field feels small
>THAT'S BECAUSE IT IS SMALL
retard

[Anonymous No.6117308]

>>6116134
it's not just termania field. there's a lack of variety in the landscape. the ocean stuff in MM does feel pretty oceany though. MM environments feel so jam-packed otherwise. there's no economy of design. They weren't basing it on natural environments and trying to mimic what it would feel like to explore them.

[Anonymous No.6117310]

>>6116435
>deku palace
>good
sorry friend, your opinion is shit

[Anonymous No.6117342]

>>6116056
thats funny you say that because i actually liked the archery mini game.

you keep making the mistake of thinking everyone plays this game like they've played it 100 times. first time players and even experienced players from OOT wont know what items will shortcut their progress later on until they fail at doing so first.

the very first game as a deku scrub shooting yourself out of the moving flower platforms is tedious. infiltrating the deku palace is tedious. following the deku scrubs dad is tedious. the goron race, the hot-spring quest, the biggorron bomb quest, snowhead; all tedious. the water temple, omg. spirit temple is nearly as bad.

on my most recent playthrough, i hadnt played in many years a nearly forgot about many details. whenever i completed a quest or minigame i had to ask myself, "where is the FUN?"

MM is still a good game. its better than OOT on a technical level. It's just not more fun than OOT
its still a good game

[Anonymous No.6117883]

>>6117342
Not him and I had fun with a fair number of the things you found tedious, but jesus fuck is the biggoron bomb shit the most unnecessary thing ever

[Anonymous No.6117935]

>>6117342
I liked pretty much all of that stuff.

[Anonymous No.6117937]

>>6116504
>it was basically a romhack of OoT.
Why is it that MM is so often called a romhack of OoT when none of the Crash, Spyro, Tomb Raider, etc sequels are called romhacks of the original games despite being more similar to them than MM is to OoT?

[Anonymous No.6117947]

>>6117937
Because they didn't just copy paste old assets and try to pass them off as new content.
>The witches who gave birth to the king of evil from OoT
>no they're just random shop keepers it's not the same characters
>s-shut up they're totally different even though we didn't even change the name

[Anonymous No.6117950]

>>6117947
Instead they just copied the same gameplay, copied the same characters in the very same roles, and just set them to new levels.

[Anonymous No.6117956]

>>6117950
I totally remember Papu Papu in Crash 2.

[Anonymous No.6117963]

>>6117956
>missing the point this hard

[Anonymous No.6117990]

>>6117963
What was your point? Real sequels don't just copy and paste an entire game's existing assets like Majora's Mask did? Everyone knows that.

[Anonymous No.6118017]

>>6117342
>tedious
So when asked how the game is tedious you just say more things are tedious without explaining how or why that's the case? Excellent argument.

>first time players and even experienced players from OOT wont know what items will shortcut their progress later on until they fail at doing so first.
See, if you create a strawman player who is completely braindead I guess MM is just too much a hurdle. You're mindset is that people will not understand the relationship with the songs they can find, items like the hookshot and how it relates to places like the pirate fortress which I'll remind you is a situation where a player could only have 2 bottles when they enter meaning multiple trips. Doubly so if they have no stone mask.

If someone is aware of zelda mechanics they should be reading prompts and environmental cues to understand what item requirements are around them. You think that people won't recognize after Woodfall that once they get the area's song they can just go to the dungeon on the next loop? Some may struggle with some details, getting all the pieces of hearts won't happen unless they break out a strategy guide and getting all the masks requires paying attention and talking to everyone, but this isn't a game that cannot be cracked. It even provides a blatant hint system if you actually explore, get the mask of truth, and chat up the many gossip stones in the game.

I had fun with the game and still do. I don't want your assurance the game is good I just want to understand why people like you hold the idea that the game is tedious overall instead of tedious in brief moments.

[Anonymous No.6118021]

>>6114613
It has certain outstanding elements which carry it despite it's flaws. I'll always love something that is the best at only a few things, more than something which is merely 'good' at everything.

[Anonymous No.6118060]

>>6118017
>I just want to understand why people like you hold the idea that the game is tedious

Those mini games or events are tedious because if you fuck up even a little, you have to start over again. and its pretty easy to fuck up. the payoff isn't as good as the work it took to win. especially when it come to simple platforming feats in dungeons

[Anonymous No.6118065]

>>6118017
>explain to me why doing repetitive things is tedious
perhaps you have autism?

[Anonymous No.6118096]

>>6118060
>Those mini games or events are tedious because if you fuck up even a little, you have to start over again.
Holy fuck. Git gud.
There's four shooting gallery heart pieces in the game, and three race minigames. And all if those you have unlimited tries to beat, and all of those rewards, except the garo mask, are optional for completion.

[Anonymous No.6118109]

>>6118096
its not hard. its just not fun. its tedious

[Anonymous No.6118181]

>>6118109
Just fucking kill yourself, every zelda game from alttp on has minigames to play if you want 100% completion, and Majora's Mask lifts several of its minigames directly from Ocarina of Time, so the complaint isn't even exclusive to MM.

[Anonymous No.6118228]

>>6118060
>Those mini games or events are tedious because if you fuck up even a little, you have to start over again.
Most of them aren't actually locked to specific times so you can try them again with little consequence outside losing a couple dozen rupees. And yes anon, even in OoT if you failed a minigame you had to do it again. There's no difference between shooting gallery challenges in any other zelda game, are they all tedious? I hope you say yes to be consistent because your argument now is that not being able to complete everything on the first try is a bad trait.

>the payoff isn't as good as the work it took to win
Sounds like you just want a game that doesn't offer you a challenge in any way and also doesn't have failure states.

>>6118065
>explain to me why doing repetitive things is tedious
Because tedious means boring, repetition is not automatically boring unless you have the patience of an infant or there is something very wrong with the action you are performing.

[Anonymous No.6118239]

>>6118181
calm down you autist. it is exclusive to majoras mask because they are fucking annoying as shit. and im not just talking about the minigames. the dungeons and platforming too

[Anonymous No.6118242]

Honestly don't understand people calling this game tedious or stressful. I never really had a problem with it as a kid, and then I played for hours just exploring.

[Anonymous No.6118243]

>>6118239
Why do you even play this games, then. Get out of this thread.

[Anonymous No.6118253]

>>6118228
look im sorry your so butt hurt about me telling you you favorite game is shit, and you have shit taste for thinking its the best zelda, but if you don't realize that MM is just extremely annoying compared to the others then just shut the fuck up. i know you think youre some super skilled gamer or something. ive 100%ed MM many many times along with most of the other zelda games. i can objectively say that MM is not that fun after returning to it recently

[Anonymous No.6118254]

>>6118243
i had to give a counter point to you hand jobbing this game. its a good game but not that great. i still like it though

[Anonymous No.6118261]

>>6118253
>i can objectively say that MM is not that fun after returning to it recently
>fun
>objective
10/10 made me reply.

[Anonymous No.6118267]

>>6118253
I've 100%'d it once back when it released, I'll never touch it again. It's not bad, but I see no need in jumping through all those hoops again.

[Anonymous No.6119410]

>>6114613
Maybe not the best, but it's my favorite, outside of maybe the Oracle games.

[Anonymous No.6120792]

>>6118267
It’s my favorite zelda but it isnt really worth 100%ing more than maybe once

I think the main quest is great and the sidequests are mostly really solid the first time around. But a few sidequests are just tedious, and others kinda lose their point when you’ve already solved the puzzle and know how the story for those characters ends.

Cause the sidequests really are puzzles, and if youre doing a puzzle you know the solution to you’re just going through rote motions.

As much as most hate the goron race, that’s something i can return to because it’s a fun challenge each time.

Also I dont know why so many people who dislike this game try so hard to force sidequests they dont like. They’re fucking sidequests, you dont have to do them. 100%ing a game is not necessarily the ‘right’ way to play it.

[Anonymous No.6121478]

>>6114613
There is no "best." That being said, no, it's not the best, but it's up there. It's like the contrarian trickster god in the Zelda pantheon, which is really just all the home console titles.

I do love it, though. The textures, colors, and cutscenes are beautifully dreamlike. The story of going back and righting your wrongs and bringing peace to the weary and the whole "forgive your friend" analogy between Giants/Skull Kid and Link/Navi is just fucking gorgeous.

[Anonymous No.6121547]

Only 3d zelda with good dungeons with only a couple in OoT being comparable and none since, so, yes. Best at least among the 3d zeldas.

[Anonymous No.6121560]

>>6114613
The opening section to reclaim your ocarina gave me a bad impression of the time limit, it's seemed way too restrictive.

[Anonymous No.6121631]

>>6115625
A retard

[Anonymous No.6121812]

>>6114613
For 3D titles, it's equal best with OoT for me.
>>6114647
I absolutely despise TP as well, anon

[Anonymous No.6122582]

>>6114657
you've said this five times

[Anonymous No.6122589]

>>6122582
>>6114657
wrong person

[Anonymous No.6122598]

>>6122589
>five different people all repeating the same gay e-celeb shit
/vr/eddit, everyone.

[Anonymous No.6122669]

>>6121560
Funny enough, the tutorial's cycle runs faster because you're locked to Clock Town. It really can seem oppressive since it doesn't move at the pace the rest of the game does.

[Anonymous No.6122757]

I've started playing MM three days ago. I didn't know that AVGN release an episode on it before I saw this thread, so I'll hold of on watching it for now. I'm up to the third temple, and this is what I think so far.
(I've already played OoT a few years ago, btw)

- The controls will always fuck you up at a pivotal moments. Like running through those hoops as Zora Link and hitting your fucking face on the edges 5 times in a row because Zora Link spazzes out if you release A for just a second. Same for the underwater part of the Pirates Cove. Those water jets that throw you out for a single mistake... not fun.
- You can actually run out of magic/items in some parts, like that part where you have to kill the sea snakes. There are jars down there, but even if your magic is totally depleted, getting a green potion out of one is random. So I ran out of magic once in the last sea snake because Zora Link's shield sucks magic like a leech.

My biggest gripe with the game until now has been the "intuitiveness", or the lack thereof. Let me explain: some things in the game have a certain amount of steps that you must go through, but because the game developers didn't realize people would explore everywhere, there are a few oversights like:
- some items can only be used in very certain spots, like the eggs on the aquarium. If you're not standing dead center on the middle of the fence over the aquarium, Link won't drop the egg. That's very unintuitive, because if you miss the right place the first time, you think you can't do anything on top of the aquarium.
(cont.)

[Anonymous No.6122768]

>>6122757
- Playing the New Wave Bossa Nova in front of the aquarium (fuck the aquarium!). When the professor shows you the zoralings, your intuition says: "Well, I should note those positions, translate them to music notes and play them". NO! It'll never work. What you have to do is talk to the professor and use the Ocarina near him. And the game will show you the notes. I understand this is was done so people wouldn't get stuck, but their oversight is that they didn't realize people would see the zoralings as notes right away, instead of being led on by the game.
- the entrance to the Snowhead Temple. I loooked it up online after I finally got what I was supposed to do (learn and play Goron's Lullaby), and many people had the same problem: they thought you were supposed to speed along the path by rolling as a Goron and timing it so the wind wouldn't blow to the left. I tried it for a good 20 minutes, and even got to the foot of the mountain 2 times. The only, and very cryptic hint, was something a guy said a few screens back about making the elder's son stop crying.
- Getting the eggs inside the bottles. Tatl tells you "is there a way to carry the egg out?", and I'd never realize it was talking about the bottles because the eggs are way too big for them. I thought I was supposed to get a basket or some other item to do it. I only used the bottle because "why the fuck not".
- Like the entrance to Snowhead Temple, you aren't supposed to navigate Pinnacle Rock yourself, but you can - and it's quite easy. Just look at the mist onscreen. Also, it took me a while to realize I was supposed to release the sea horse by diving to the bottom. I was looking for some land. More of the "correct way" that the developers intended, but didn't realize people would try other solutions.
(cont.)

[Anonymous No.6122773]

>>6122768
>The only, and very cryptic hint, was something a guy said a few screens back about making the elder's son stop crying.
That's what the lens of truth is for, dumbass

[Anonymous No.6122780]

>>6122768
Lastly, the controls are good for their time, but even by then, it still needed a lot of adjustments:
- my main gripe with the controls is that you can't really tell when Tatl is gonna lock onto someone (so you can use Z-Target). And Z-Target only works if Link is facing the enemy. The intuitive thing would be to have him be able to Z-Target when the camera is looking at the enemy. But Tatl doesn't even hover near them that way. I actually had some trouble with this at the Pirate Cove boss and at Wart. So my main strategy was to block first thing in the fight, until I could Z-Target the enemy.
- Sometimes it's pretty difficult to center the fucking camera. I fell twice to the bottom of Snowhead Temple during rolling.

To finish this, a question: you don't need to lie. How did you find out about Kamaro? Magazine, guide/gamefaqs, a friend told you?

[Anonymous No.6122787]

>>6122780
>lie. How did you find out about Kamaro? Magazine, guide/gamefaqs, a friend told you?
Just in the field at night and hearing his music

[Anonymous No.6122793]

>>6122773
>icy mountain during a blizzard where routine gusts of wind blow
>why of COURSE the wind gusts are because of a giant invisible goron, why WOULDN'T you think that?

[Anonymous No.6122796]

>>6122773
If you use the lens of truth at the entrance, it just shows a giant Goron burping. Tatl tells you this. How does that help you? What are you supposed to do? Fire an arrow at the Goron?

Really, look online for "how do I get into/break into <anything majora>"? Another place that was lost to me at first was the Pirate Cove. I knew it had something to do with the skull wooden signs underwater, but because somehow the game didn't register me smashing into them face-first the first time, I didn't know you were supposed to break them that way. I tried punching, the special attack, nothing worked. I went back and did the skulltulla houses and collected fairies, then came back to the entrance to try again. Now it worked.

What I mean is, the game expects you to do something in an exact way, but if you deviate even slightly from it, you'll think you did something wrong or the entrance is somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.6122797]

>>6122793
>literally get the lens of truth right before
>never think to use it
Never play an adventure game

[Anonymous No.6122801]

>>6122773
The lens of truth only shows the Goron, there's nothing nearby telling you about the lullaby. Sure, by the third temple you realize you have to get the colored songs to open the temples, but there's almost no way to know you had to do it by the second one.

[Anonymous No.6122802]

>>6122797
Already used it to follow the ghost Darmani.

[Anonymous No.6122803]

>>6122796
>it just shows a giant Goron burping. Tatl tells you this. How does that help you? What are you supposed to do? Fire an arrow at the Goron?

>get the lens of truth
>get the goron lullaby
>use lens at snowhead
>play lullaby
>?????
>profit

[Anonymous No.6122807]

>>6122797
You're probably not remembering it that well. You get the lens of truth way before the entrance to the snowhead temple, and you can do those things with it:
- jump back to Goron Village
- find Darmani's spirit
- find the hidden stairs near the lake

After you do all of those, you have to get the hot spring water to thaw the ice in some places.

[Anonymous No.6122812]

>>6122801
The game leads you to finding the elder before you attempt to reach the temple, and assuming you have the lullaby, it should be obvious what you do.

>>6122802
>expect to use an item only once
What.

[Anonymous No.6122815]

>>6122807
>After you do all of those, you have to get the hot spring water to thaw the ice in some places.
Yes, which will lead to you getting the goron lullaby, where you then play outside the temple.
I don't know how the pattern of temples needing songs wouldn't have been apparent, just after woodfall. They're color coded and everything.

[Anonymous No.6122821]

>>6122803
>get the goron lullaby
Sure, if you can somehow find the Elder buried in the ice. See, what the guy is talking about in his post is that the game expects you to follow some steps the developer intended exactly, but you can actually go to the entrance of the temple without ever finding the Elder. And like he said, you can almost roll yourself to the bottom of the mountain somehow - someone who tried this a few times would think this was the right way to enter the temple, when it wasn't.

[Anonymous No.6122831]

>>6122812
The game doesn't lead you to the Elder. At least in the original. The other Gorons will say the Elder got lost in the way to Snowhead, which would imply he was between Snowhead and the Mountain Village, not near the Twin Islands (which is right outside Goron Village). You'd only get the hint to look for him there if you started punching the ice boulders and saw that one was bigger than the others.

Again, what threw me out for a loop was that you can roll yourself to the bottom of the mountain, without the Goron Lullaby. Like navigating the mist near Pinnacle Rock.

[Anonymous No.6122832]

>>6122821
Well then I guess the sequence was just too hard for some people.
>wind waker ganon's tower boomerang puzzle.webm

[Anonymous No.6122852]

>>6122832
>>6122821
Both of you are misremembering things. You probably saw how to get the Goron Lullaby from some magazine at the time, because...

... Did you know that the Goron Elder appears on a different location depending on the day it is? He's near the Twin Islands on Day 1, and that's what most guides tell you (without nothing that he's only there on Day 1). On Day 2, he'll be near the entrance to the Mountain Village, and on Day 3 he'll be near where you got the Goron Mask.

Now that begs the question: who moved him from place? None of the monsters in the path are strong enough to do it.

[Anonymous No.6122856]

>>6122852
>You probably saw how to get the Goron Lullaby from some magazine at the time, because...

Why is it policy on /vr/ to accuse everyone of not getting stuck in some part of a game to have owned a guide?

[Anonymous No.6122861]

>>6122831
Pretty sure Tatl, will highlight the snow ball with the elder in it with a green light even before breaking it. And there is also the goron rolling around the village you can free.

[Anonymous No.6122865]

>>6122856
Because that's what everyone did back then? I remember some thread where a guy asked how did people solve the tablet puzzle in Tales of Destiny for the PS1 back in the day. People would say a lot of stuff, but none actually remembered how. Then some anon replied "everyone got the password from a magazine, because the in-game hints are wrong" (the in-game hints spell "EASE", but the password is actually "FATE"). Then some anon dredged up a scan of an old EGM issue and it had the same exact comment: "The password in the tablet puzzle is FATE, not EASE".

[Anonymous No.6122869]

>>6122856
Silent Hill piano puzzle
Silent Hill 3 book puzzle

[Anonymous No.6122876]

>>6122865
>One translation error resulted in a guide dang it. In Helraois, the player needs to input a password. The dungeon itself has hints as to what the four letters in the password are. Unfortunately, two of the letters are one off their actual value, and both of them happened to be consonants. Have fun figuring out which ones are incorrect, and what 2 of the other 14 letters are required without resorting to a guide. Incidentally, the password is FATE.
How did that get past Q&A?

[Anonymous No.6122895]

>>6122876
>implying old games had Q&A
Penguin yay number one

[Anonymous No.6122908]

>>6122876
What QA?

[Anonymous No.6122915]

>>6122861
People will stray from falling on top of the frozen lake because you have to go all the way to the beginning to climb out, and there doesn't seem to be anything interesting on it.
You can also fall on the side the Elder isn't at. We're used to getting mad here on /vr/ about nowadays "streamlined" games, but this is one part that's supposed to be streamlined.

[Anonymous No.6122976]

>>6122915
>that's supposed to be streamlined.
My problem with this line of reasoning is that for the anon who originally posted his grievances to have arrived at that point. I can't remember the exact order, but he shouldn't be getting told about the Goron Elder without also having gotten the first half of the Goron Lullaby. if he didn't it probably means the guy who talks about the elder is outside the Goron hall. For the complaint about the lack of "intuitiveness", the poster either completely missed out on, or completely ignored a quest prompt. And if My memory isn't too busted, the goron that tells you about the elder is one of the ones directly next to the crying kid

As for not exploring the river basin. There are only 3-4 zones that comprise the goron area. If you are looking for the Elder and didn't find him in the mountain village or Snowpeak the only other region would be the zone directly before the Goron hall. I think for a player to continually avoid going down into the basin, just shows a lack of adventure on their part as the giant snowballs are at least landmarks and as i mentioned it's possible to learn that Gorons are being frozen not just in ice but snow above the Hall with the rolling goron

It's an odd complaint because even saying he didn't try and pull out his guitar in front of the Zora Eggs doesn't really work for a guy who finished OoT. if you aren't locked into a cutscene to learn a song you always perform it in front of the thing that will teach it too you. Like the music tablet in the cemetery

Keep in mind I'm not saying the game couldn't be clearer about some things, the zora eggs are definitely a rough patch. But Snowpeak was never a problem for me even as a kid without a guide, I'm amazed people didn't explore more. But I noticed during my own recent replay that I was bee-lining from A-B without exploring as much or following up on quest threads that weren't main ones. Almost went into woodfall without the great fairy mask

[Anonymous No.6122984]

>>6114613
I like Majora's Mask a lot, either my favorite or second favorite [3D] Zelda game. I liked the tone of helplessness, and I always pseudo-speedrun my games so I never worried about the three day timer. Stone Tower Temple is the best 3D Zelda dungeon and I like all the other too, even Great Bay Temple

[Anonymous No.6122993]

>>6114698
I don't really like LA. Other three I completely agree on though. ALTTP was a ton of fun and OOT was ALTTP 3D while MM was something new. The only other Zelda game I like nearly as much is TP despite all of its flaws the Link sections are my absolute favorite after you clear all the Twilight Bugs by Dungeon3

[Anonymous No.6123060]

>>6114613
Played LA on a gb emulator in like 1998
I played OOT in like 2002
TP in like 06
Tried ww later didn't like it never finished it
Gf at the time showed me mm and it seemed cool but I never got into it or played it my own just checked out areas and bosses with her on her completed save, clowned the boss with fierce diety mask and all that
tried original and alttp ln emulator for like an hour each, enjoyed but never beat them
Played botw 2 years ago thought it was mediocre but I did get all shrines and like 100 korok seeds or whatever max inventory requires

Played mm in 2018 finally on wii virtual console at gf's bequest. Controls and hdtv input lag fucked me up a few times then she broke up with me because nothing dries her up faster than seeing me failing at a children's game. Like the big quiver cant get because of 13fps and controller lag of 300ms on her shitty walmart tv. Have a new gf but mever playing zelda with her unless it's on original hardware and I know shit. Like I did oot speedrun with her and it was chill.

Anyway despite my shitty experiences with mm I did eventually complete it (had to restart cz my save file was on exgf's wii) and I think it has some of the best writing and dungeons in the series. Zora swimming is lots of fun. Deku scrub mechanics too. Goron controls ehile rolling are a little touchy but nothing worth complaining about. I think its a great game and actually appreciated it more than OoT now that I'm older.

[Anonymous No.6123267]

>>6123060
Haha, I can get the big quiver easily playing off my hdtv and wii.
You're bad.

[Anonymous No.6123852]

>>6114650
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=hygge&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
not the anon you replied to, but here is my take on it.

[Anonymous No.6123874]

>>6114613
There are people who consume fecal matter for sexual gratification, people who refuse to vaccinate their children, hell there's even people that use Macintosh computers. Do not doubt the abject stupidity of human beings.

[Anonymous No.6124136]

I didn't know my simple misgivings about MM would elicit such responses yesterday. Anyway, there was a lot of things I liked about MM too. I guess a lot of people who put it as their #1 or #2 like somber or "dark" games. This is probably the first Zelda game where you see someone being killed, and you even bury him. This makes it a very personal, harrowing story.

I guess there's another perspective people have on it: even if past titles had you always alone, in MM they take it to another level. There's the aforementioned scene with Mikau (with no one nearby to witness it), and most people you meet, even the children, had this kind of hopeless feeling that they're looking for someone to help them, but also would just keep on living without any hope... I don't know, it feels very different from most games, even nowadays. It just feels very personal to some people, that's probably why it "clicked" with a lot of people back then. There are people who liked the big hero stories, but also people who like somber stories like this.

I really liked the sidequests, specially the ones connected to time. I didn't gleam this from the comments here, but one I see mentioned a lot is the quest to help Romani fight off the aliens. While you'd expect to have a "mission marker" (like in GTA) to start the mission once you arrive at the place, they do it a lot better in MM. You first hear Romani talk about her problems, how her sister doesn't believe her, then she says the time the aliens show up. THEN, you make a promise to show up and help her. That's the part where people are taken by. When you arrive at the designated time, there isn't an impersonal "mission marker" that begins the mission. Romani will exit the house, and walk towards the barn. You can talk to her during this time, and she'll say "they are coming, get ready" and then it starts. People had trouble with it because of the ones who appear from behind, but I guess that's why it's so memorable.
(cont.)

[Anonymous No.6124137]

Honestly, I remember thinking of MM as more of a spinoff growing up and I don't think I was alone in that category. It was very different.

[Anonymous No.6124143]

>>6124136
You're helping this little girl in the middle of nowhere, and it's like you're really an unique person in this world - dare I say, a "living world". Later on, we understand that we can just reset the time to try again if we fail (and even if we succeed, resetting will leave Romani to her fate), but everything about it... it's just so memorable. Not every quest is like this, but even for a game from 20 years ago, there's just something that makes the experience so personal, that games even nowadays can't replicate that well yet. Like Mikau's death that I mentioned in the post above. In other games, you get this scene with a sad song and the character says their last words, the game wants to make you cry - but it just feels so "movie-like", so flat. In MM's, you find this guy on the water, almost dead, and he asks you to help him to shore. When you do so (you control it the whole time), he'll get up and his last words are a rocking jam. He'll die and Link has to bury him. That's what makes it so personal.

I also think the scenes of the dead guys (Darmani and Mikau) were really well-done. Darmani is surrounded by people who look up to him, and Mikau is in his "heaven", doing the thing he likes the most, playing in his band.

The character counterparts (too Hylian characters) are really interesting too. I really liked the Koume and Kotake in MM, and the way their personal quest is resolved. Although you're supposed to go and help Koume in the forest, if you don't do it by Day 3, Kotake will close her shop and go by herself. It makes the world feel more alive, in a way. It's also a stark contrast to the bosses from OoT - here they're just two sisters trying to get by.

MM has a lot going for it - but I think what makes it really memorable is that it IS a unique game. Even if you don't like the quests or the temples, MM is still very unique and memorable.

[Anonymous No.6124235]

>>6114613
I view MM and OOT as one complete game. Whenever I go back to play them I finish OOT and return to Kokori as a kid. I start MM afterwards and complete the N64 saga. My enjoyment doesn’t really differ between the two titles.

[Anonymous No.6124667]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the tedium of the Ikana well when talking about Majora's flaws.

MM did a great job of feeling different from OOT despite using many of the same assets, and had good aesthetics and dungeons. It felt consistently more tedious than OOT to me though, and despite having a lot of sidequests, a lot of the sidequests aren't fun.

[Anonymous No.6124671]

>>6124667
I've only completed the third temple yesterday, so I don't know how tedious Ikana Canyon will be.
I did most of the sidequests by now, and except for the Romani Ranch and Kafei's sidequests, they don't really feel that special... but those two are pretty good.

By the way, do the Gossip Stones tell you about every secret? Because I only got the Rock Sirloin by complete chance. When I first got to Mountain Village, I thought the "hard thing" the Goron was talking about was the Moon's Tear. Since some items are supposed to be used more than once on different loops...

[Anonymous No.6124762]

>>6124235
Yeah, as a kid, I was never critical of majora's mask the same way a lot if the people in this thread are.
It was a game I loved that was a direct sequel to another game I loved. Any reused assets didn't bother me, because they were both n64 zeldas. I didn't mind the time limit, because you could reset at any point. Majora's mask's short length didn't bother me, because I could just go play ocarina.

As a kid I loved MM because it was weird, surreal, spooky, but not scary. There were four characters you could play as, you got to see more of the societies of other races, the world was denser than Ocarina, with more NPCs and sidequests. I liked that you could freely replay dungeons and fight bosses. I liked playing around with the different masks or creating thematic 'loadouts'. I liked how a lot if the sense of mystery that Ocarina had was retained in Majora's Mask.

[Anonymous No.6125471]

>>6124671
I’m the guy up near the top who made a bigass post talking about how great MM is, the ikana well fucking sucks. Easily the worst part of the game and the only one I’d recommend using a guide for. You’ll know why once you get there and find out what the ‘challenge’ is.

[Anonymous No.6125485]

>>6124671
>so I don't know how tedious Ikana Canyon will be.
I'll tell you this, Ikana has 2 sequences that suck ass no matter what. The Well like the poster mentioned because you are doing a fetch quest, most of the items are found within the well but 2 are ones you have to hunt down. A blue potion and some magic beans. If you have done a reset recently and/or have the pig mask you can get 1 for free by saving the witch in the swamp then helping her sister get a mushroom from the lost woods area nearby
And ascending to the Stone Temple.

The stone temple and Ikana Castle make up for this somewhat because they are both very good but Ikana is still the most frustrating sequences in the game. And like that poster I'm one of the people in the game praising it overall.

[Anonymous No.6125998]

>>6114613
>pbg
Literally FUCKING who?
Fuck off underage

[Anonymous No.6126017]

I see this thread hits a lot harder here than on /v/. Anyway, I used to do that guy's dance a lot as a kid. One time at recess i got like ten kids doing it together. It was cool.

[Anonymous No.6126165]

Just reached Stone Temple. Boy, you guys weren't kidding when you said Ikana Canyon was boring as fuck. The whole thing starts in a "sidequesty" sort of way, I got into the girl's house thinking it just had a Heart Piece, but it actually had a quest item. Then, I walked around trying to open the castle like the evil spirit said, when I stumbled upon the well. The guys there asked for some items, so I thought I had to buy a ton of stuff (I was taking notes), so I withdrew 500 rupees from the bank. Then I discovered you only needed to buy the first two items (I didn't look at the spoilers beforehand), the rest were in the dungeon. Walk around, fetch stuff. Starts kind of cool, but gets old fast. I also had to buy a milk bottle because I didn't know Epona's Song was used to milk the cow (I tried everything else). Only after I completed the dungeon I remembered it did that in OoT. Ikana Castle was pretty meh, but the payoff was awesome. The King of Ikana is the best boss of the game by far. Really memorable. The way the curtains come down and he talks about Ikana Kingdom... now I understand the impression that MM left on many kid's minds back then.

[Anonymous No.6126234]

>>6126165
It’s weird, Ikana has the most nuisances but it’s still probably my favorite part of the game. I guess I really like the theme, and I think a lot of the content there is cool. Feels the most dreamlike of all the areas to me.

I have hate/love feelings for stone tower temple. I remember it being the most challenging 3D zelda dungeon by far, not counting master quest. Though it might give a few of those a run for their money. I remember it being the only dungeon I couldn’t do in three days.

[Anonymous No.6126281]

>>6126234
>most challenging 3D zelda dungeon by far, not counting master quest.
To he honest, even counting master quest, Stone Tower temple probably still ranks in top 5 hardest 3d zelda dungeons.

[Anonymous No.6126286]

>>6126165
>when you said Ikana Canyon was boring as fuck. The whole thing starts in a "sidequesty" sort of way, I got into the girl's house thinking it just had a Heart Piece
I can't believe that entire scene was lost on you because you didn't get a heart piece. It has a ton of emotional impact, both in seeing a scared young girl trying to protect her father while he is turning into a monster, but also realizing that he was the only person in game you can heal with the Song of Healing, without them already being dead or dying (Though I suppose he was undead).

[Anonymous No.6126296]

>>6114691
I agree about the movement being good, as well as the transformations being interesting. The problem is then that they are not well utilized by the game too often. I would consider this a bit of a nitpick compared to some other issues you seem to overlook, though. The time mechanic comes with pros and cons. Obviously it gives a unique playing experience. The downside is it necessitates some waiting around from the player to catch certain events, even if they are well-planned. It's the trade-off for the system existing. I don't see an issue with the game pressuring the player, and I enjoyed certain minigames having different arrangements for the day. A nice touch.

>it firmly has the secondbest overworld
No. Even if you ignore the central area, the other areas wind up having lots of areas you traverse exactly once, making the majority of the overworld a path you see exactly once. I agree in that the overworld is at least more of a "puzzle" or mini dungeon than, say, OoT's, but the tradeoff is once you've traversed the area, it's more or less finished and you don't come back. Even areas where you might, the arrangement of content is often awkward and strangely spaced. Look at Great Bay and how it's arranged. It isn't exactly the pinnacle of design.

I also don't think it's a fair compensation to overlook the game arbitrarily taking away items between resets. If it is so easy to restock (it mostly is), then why even take them away in the first place? The real shit is having to make an extra trip to the bank... (1/2)

[Anonymous No.6126303]

>>6126296
>if it is so easy to restock (it mostly is), then why even take them away in the first place?
Immersion

[Anonymous No.6126309]

>>6126296
The real problem with the game stems from not particularly good pacing. I would argue it's the first Zelda game with pretty consistent pacing issues which then get worse in subsequent games. There are sections of the game designed to waste the player's time for no real benefit. Some good examples are...
>zora eggs
>Kafei's quest x2 at minimum
The game is at its best when you already know everything to do, and even if you do the game has a lot of extenders. I'm being charitable when bringing up points as well, as one could easily argue that quests like the ranch, while well-presented, has a ton of downtime and just drags a bit. It also did not learn from OoT's iron boots issue (and to be fair, WW certainly didn't learn from MM) where Stone Temple requires a fair bit of ocarina playing where the solution to the puzzle far, far outlasts the thought needed to find the solution.

This isn't to say I dislike MM. There's a lot to enjoy about it, but the people who seem to think the game as flawless are kidding themselves. I'm even ignoring common complaints about minigames (bad aiming comes almost entirely from people not using the original N64 joystick, though the Goron Race is silly at times). It is an interesting game and I am glad it exists, but perfect it is not.
>under the well

[Anonymous No.6126312]

>>6126303
Then you should lose everything you didn't have up to that point, shouldn't you? I get the rationale behind the devs doing it-- that it makes the player "feel" like their state has been reset, but the reality is that they are just adding in a chore for the player. I don't even consider the bombs/arrows being the chore-- it's the bank.

[Anonymous No.6126398]

>>6126296
>>6126309
Those are all fair criticisms. I would say the overworld and tranformations are well designed but underutilized, I guess.

I would agree with the pacing criticism as well. Strongly, in fact. Although I think the zora eggs are actually a worthwhile quest, time consuming but they’re one of the only times the time limit is a real threat. I also like how there’s a dungeon with 7 subgoals (the eggs) instead of one boss at the end. But it’s been years since I played that part.

One tedious thing is actually the menu I’d say. It would've been nice if it would just take off a mask if you try to unequip it while you're wearing it, but you have to go in and out of the menu a lot since it doesn’t. Not hard to just take a mask off before opening the menu but it’s one of those things that’s a bit of an annoyance whenever you forget about it. Would also be nice if you could skip the warp animation and the song ‘replays’ when you play a song, but again it’s not exactly major.

Also while I stand by the losing items thing as not being a big deal, I agree it is unnecessary and doesn’t really make sense considering you keep the important items.

As much as I like Majora I’d never call it perfect. It’s a shame there isn’t a version with the original’s controls and appearance and the 3ds version’s qol changes. Still wouldn’t be perfect, but it would help quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.6126614]

>>6126286
No, no. What I mean is that Sharp (the "evil spirit") tells you about going to the Ancient Castle of Ikana, and I thought that would be the main part of the quest. After walking around a while, the Garos talked about the girl, so I thought it was just some side content. I went there and whent the father bust out of the closet, I understood it was part of the main quest. I was not expecting that at all.

[Anonymous No.6126620]

Just finished Stone Temple. I sorta liked the dungeon, but there's something about that intuitiveness I was talking about too. I had to look up the solution (let the hand throw you up the ledge) because the game sorta gives you a red herring. I saw in some interviews (from when MM3D) was released that people had a lot of problem in some parts (like I had), so they reworked them in MM3D, either making them outright easier or just less cryptic. Going back to my example: the red herring is that back in the room with the Armos, there are 6 Armos, but only 4 actually move. There are 2 Armos that never move at all. The red herring is that they have a "Grab" command. I fiddled around with this for a good 10 minutes, thinking you had to push them as Goron, putting statues near them on the same positions, etc. Nothing worked. Then I went back to the only other room which had some sort of unexplored exit, which was the bridge room. The room is made in a way that you believe you can get up on the other ledge by jumping out of the water as Zora Link, but you actually can't... I looked everywhere for a good 40 minutes, and deduced the temple flipping around had something to do with the symbol in front of it. Nothing worked.

Only after I said fuck it and let the hand grab me, it threw me up there.

Also, how did you figure up the liquid mirror thing? I thought I had solved it by firing an ice arrow at it, because Tatl didn't show the hint anymore, but after I solved it, I looked online and saw that you had to "charge" the mirror. The problem (and again, it's not intuitive) is that the game gave me no indication of this. I believe most people just randomly solved it by pointing the beam at the mirror and then running to it before it went out.

[Anonymous No.6126627]

>>6126620
I was talking about MM3D and downright forgot. That red herring with the Armos was removed in MM3D, and now all 6 statues in that room awaken. I also saw somewhere that they made the entrance in the courtyard more obvious (by putting cracks on it), because the original wasn't as obvious, specially if it was at night. I didn't have that problem with it, but I understand if people got stuck there.

[Anonymous No.6127584]

Deku is the best tranformation just saying

[Anonymous No.6127617]

>>6114613
It's my favorite if only in the fact it wasn't afraid to take risks and shake things up and unlike BOTW the content that was added was actually worth it.

[Anonymous No.6127659]

>>6127584
>can't even hold down a weight switch
>no double boomerangs that can also grab items
>can't swim
Zora Link is objectively the best.

[Anonymous No.6128042]

>>6127659
What is even the purpose of the Deku statue? Will it attract enemy attacks or something?

[Anonymous No.6128059]

Finished MM for the first time a few hours ago.

I considered Stone Temple to be quite easy, and it was actually the only temple where I got all the stray fairies on my first dive there. I don't know if it was just because I was used to the game by now (clocked 40+ hours probably), or because this dungeon doesn't really have that enemies, but I actually enjoyed Stone Temple. However, the boss was pretty bad, and I see that's why they completely reworked it in MM3D.

My favorite boss fights were Igos du Ikana and Majora's Mask. My least favorite was, of course, fucking Wizzrobe. How many times do I have to do the same exact fight? 6 or 7?

My favorite area was Zora Cape, and least favorite was Southern Swamp (poisoned version).

Lastly, the scene of the giants stopping the Moon was really impressive. Now I fully understand why MM left such an impression on many people back then, even more than OoT. It has a lot of memorable parts.

[Anonymous No.6128143]

>>6127659
Playing zora link on-land feels like playing the game in slow motion.

[Anonymous No.6128430]

>>6114724
Zelda II is hard as shit but it’s really fun. I wish they dove deeper into the RPG element.

[Anonymous No.6128642]

>>6115837
>MM is mysterious, dark, complicated, austere, mind-breaking game that will seriously test your patience as a gamer

Borderline retarded opinion. There's nothing mysterious about MM, everything is spelled out for you. Compare that to the creepy abandoned places of OoT that give vague hints about horrific pasts, like the Ghosts in the Forest Temple or the Bloody History Of Hyrule messages in the Shadow Temple.

Bad level design, garish and ugly palette choices, grimderp story beats like EVERYONE IS STUCK IN A CYCLE OF DEATH ALIENS PROBE LOLIS, do not a great game make.

In addition, MM is the precise moment the franchise tipped irrevocably into weeb shit with cringey Japanese humor and characters. This is the game that introduced Tingle after all.

OoT wasn't the last good Zelda game, but it was the peak of the franchise, and in comparison MM is a huge drop in quality that paved the way for turning the Zelda series from a simple, moody, and subtle game series into the weebshit chink skyrim simulator it's become today. The look, feel, sounds, and storytelling of MM feels like a romhack made by some fedora wearing hapa college student.

[Anonymous No.6128648]

>>6128642
Not the guy you were replying to, but your opinion on MM is also borderline retarded.
I don't see what's "japanese humor" about Tingle, if anything he seems like a parody on Peter Pan or something.
Also, to me MM doesn't feel like a romhack, I wish romhacks had stuff as good as Zora swimming.

[Anonymous No.6128665]

>>6128642
>There's nothing mysterious about MM, everything is spelled out for you. Compare that to the creepy abandoned places of OoT that give vague hints about horrific pasts

What was Lakebed Temple supposed to be? What was it there for? Some kind of energy producing dam, maybe? It's hard to say.

What was Stone Tower Temple? Seems implied to have been some weird take on a tower of babel type structure.

I don't know what the fuck snowhead was supposed to be.

Woodfall was an old temple that fell into ruin, which is not original but matches a lot of what is in oot.

I actually agree oot is more mysterious over all, but MM has neat stuff in it too. Most of MM's mysteries lie more with the characters though, which you may just not care about.

[Anonymous No.6128678]

>>6128648
Tingle is Japanese humor because he's a middle aged guy cosplaying as a creepy dude in spandex. The whole fairy concept could be vaguely based on Peter Pan though.

That said I agree with you that MM doesn't feel like a romhack. It reuses assets and probably also reuses some concepts that were scrapped for OoT but you'd be retarded not to. They could've very easily made a game that feels like 'OoT, but more of it' but they chose to do something entirely different with it.

Conversely Twilight Princess feels like 'OoT, but more of it' a lot more than MM does. It's imo one of the most overrated 3D Zelda games. It's not bad (all mainline Zelda games are at least good) but in retrospect it feels like one of the least memorable games. It's also the only Zelda game I always -try- to replay but get bored after one or two dungeons, others feel more replayable. Maybe that's just me though.

[Anonymous No.6128680]

lets say it like this...

Majoras Mask was an incredibly ambitious and absolutely fresh take on the action adventure formula, not to mention its rather mature story.

but it is also a kids game... a really, really fantastic kids game.

dumb fucks buy their kids an xbox and COD, and wonder why theyre morons.

buy them a fucking nintendo jesus christ. nintendo is for children.

anyway, yeah, majoras mask did for adventure genre what deus ex did for shooters.....

and then wind waker came along.

and just wrecked shit

[Anonymous No.6128682]

>>6128678
>The whole fairy concept could be vaguely based on Peter Pan though.
He's talking about Peter Pan Syndrome.

[Anonymous No.6128683]

>>6128680
What are you even trying to say dude? It's like you're starting to say a few things but you don't finish any of your thoughts.

[Anonymous No.6128685]

>>6128678
I don't like TP but I consider the second half of the game 'okay.'

Next time you try to replay it you'd be doing yourself a favor if you start from an old save you gave up on rather than try to start from scratch again. The whole first half of the game sucks.

[Anonymous No.6128689]

>>6128685
I think the first half of TP was really good for its time, and it's probably also really good to play through if it's your first time playing it but it's so goddamn tedious. It feels a lot like a tech demo, like 'see how pretty these things are, try fishing it's comfy'.

One thing I remember about TP is that it has a few really great weapons though, like the double clawshots, ball & chain and spinner. The spinner was probably my favorite Zelda item and the boss battle you had to use it for was one of my favorite Zelda bosses. Shame the item got completely useless after the dungeon.

[Anonymous No.6129054]

>>6128689
>I think the first half of TP was really good for its time
What does that mean? Because even playing the game in 2006, the first half is a total slog. If it's not story and cutscenes, it's bug hunting. TP's Forest Temple is probably one of worst 3D Zelda dungeons.

[Anonymous No.6129109]

>>6129054
TP is the worst 3D Zelda for me by far, I didnt even finish it, I stopped right before Zant because I couldnt be bothered to actually go through with it. They went too far with the "adult" Zelda meme, and while the design choices look cool, the game feels absolutely soulless. BOTW came out 10 years too late, its exactly what the 6th gen Zelda shoulve been all along.

[Anonymous No.6129187]

>>6129109
It's because Wind Waker had such a mixed reception at the time. It felt a hell of a lot more soulful than TP though, and graphically it's also aged a lot better. I replayed it pretty recently and I was impressed at how big everything felt. It was 'open world' before open worldness was really a (big) thing, but many people just wrote it off saying 'omg it looks like a cartoon give me my grimdark Zelda, Link needs to have an earring like in Soul Calibur II'.

WW has its flaws of course, particularly the slog it turns into when you need to collect the triforce pieces. It's not hard since the map tells you where to go, it's just tedious and if you didn't know about the map costs or the wallet expansion beforehand you'll probably have wasted tons of rupees before realizing you needed them.

[Anonymous No.6129190]

>>6129187
WW never feels big, only empty. Even the NES game felt larger.

[Anonymous No.6129231]

>>6129190
I wish wind waker could have been totally completed. With all intended great see temples, then with the intended hyrule temples.
You could probably cut the great sea in half and focus exclusively on islands that actually have content. Gutting the reefs, archipelago and such in favor of the denser islands with caves or mini games and sidsquests.

[Anonymous No.6129234]

>>6129190
Hard disagree. I'll grant that sailing from place to place can take a little while and that you should be able to warp to every square that you've mapped instead of just a handful of random ones but the NES game feeling bigger is just false. I think Link's Awakening has a bigger map (or at least the same size) and it feels small.

[Anonymous No.6129237]

>>6129234
>>6129231
Having a good density is better than sheer size. Majora's Mask's world has a good density, to me it never really feels like there's wasted space, and everything is small and concise.

[Anonymous No.6129349]

>>6122801
>there's nothing nearby telling you about the lullaby

how much hand holding do you need

[Anonymous No.6129354]

>>6129349
Obviously, 3d zelda is too hard

[Anonymous No.6129501]

I've watched the AVGN video, and one thing I agree with is that some of the hints are downright wrong. One situation he highlighted was the "race" against Captain Keeta. If you Z-Target him, Tatl will say something like: "Try to catch up to him, but if you get too close you'll be sorry!" Well, that's wrong. You actually have to what the guy with the sword. Anyone reading that for the first time would thing they just needed to get near the guy before the "finish line". If they got too near they would be punted down the canyon or something.
Some hints don't help at all, too. Someone mentioned above the giant Goron in Snowhead, and the liquid mirror in the Stone Temple.

And again, what is the use of the Deku Statue? I guess the developers played the Stone Tower and thought "hell, those cutscenes to summon the statues take too long, imagine doing that 50 times", so they barely use it in the dungeon itself.

[Anonymous No.6129504]

>>6129501
*to whack the guy with the sword

[Anonymous No.6129514]

>>6129501
What kind of kid is discouraged of trying something in a game because of what he reads? This criticism is only valid for autistic adult nerds who take everything literally.
For instance, Im not a native english speaker. When I played MM for the first time I was 10 and barely knew any english, even the little I knew didnt help, because I mashed through all text boxes without bothering figuring out what they could mean. Turns out I was able to finish the game just fine by way of intuition or simple trial and error. A notable moment I remember was putting the deku princess in a bottle. I had no idea what to do, so I just tried everything I could until this one worked.

[Anonymous No.6129536]

>>6129514
Good thing you can repeat the race as much times as you want, huh.

[Anonymous No.6129581]

>>6129536
Yeah, it's a good thing there's no real failure state, then autists might actually have a point about complaining some more obtuse things.

[Anonymous No.6129587]

>>6129501
>And again, what is the use of the Deku Statue?
It doesn't have a point other than to show what the deku mask's original body looked like. Frankly, everyone should be glad no Elegy of Emptiness puzzle required all four forms.

[Anonymous No.6129589]

>>6129231
Who knows, it could’ve ended up like skyward sword where the islands are fucking nothing and the land is a bunch of linear pathways.

Though I will admit, when I got to hyrule castle I wanted to run out and explore that background so much.

[Anonymous No.6129605]

>>6129589
Wind waker's hyrule is the coolest looking part of the game and all of it is locked away. All those caves and hills off in the distance will never be known.

[Anonymous No.6130524]

>>6126017
Cute

[Anonymous No.6130601]

>>6114613
ocarina of time with more thought out progression, interesting side missions, and fleshed characters

[Anonymous No.6130614]

For me it was watching Chugaconroys lp of the game. Watching it got me into the series.

[Anonymous No.6130641]

>>6130614
Imagine watching a let's play made around 2010 to get into one of the most famous video game franchises.

[Anonymous No.6132048]

>>6129605
And that makes them all the more enticing

I really do wonder what a finished ww would’ve been like

[Anonymous No.6132056]

>>6126017
very based

[Anonymous No.6132064]

Did they fugg?

[Anonymous No.6132282]

>>6132064
Sure

[Anonymous No.6134242]

>>6132064
They could not resist the dancing dildo mask

[Anonymous No.6135037]

>>6114613
who the fuck is pbg you stupid zoomer piece of shit