/vr/ - Retro Games

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Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:05:33 2019 No.6076526 [DELETED]

>“It’s like fighting a fireworks display. Sometimes the enemy blows up. Sometimes you do. There’s no strategy; no hook that makes you think about how you’ll do better next time.”
I couldn't agree more. I can't even enjoy the background because of constantly focusing on spinning dots. Where's the incentive to continue playing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:08:41 2019 No.6076534 Who are you quoting?

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:14:14 2019 No.6076543

>>6076534
It's a professional reviewer's take on your typical CAVE shmup. He's wrong about the lack of strategy, but right at the same time. Nothing in the game works to make me work harder. Am I supposed to go see more despite the game poorly designed? The dots are too big and so it looks like you can't fit anywhere. So instead of making the game visually readable, it expects you to play 9000+ hours for you to develop a 6th sense. The screen zoom is also stupid.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:14:58 2019 No.6076546

Can't read very well telegraphed slow moving patterns, don't use basic techniques like streaming and can't recognize and mentally break down/understand patterns? It's clearly not you who is a thick as a brick shitplayer unwilling to learn, the game must suck! Also if you are focusing on the background in a shmup you're playing some mighty boring shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:18:26 2019 No.6076557 >>6076546 >mentally break down/understand patterns Lol are you actually so deluded to think you can do this on the fly without playing for hours first or studying videos? This shit is completely unintuitive.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:19:40 2019 No.6076560

I would think that "beating the level" would be incentive enough.

If you don't like Cave games or bullet hells, play something else. I don't even really like Cave's games besides Mushihimesama Futari. I like the fairy tale aesthetic of that one, and it feels fair (until the final boss). I generally like the space shooter setting of 90s shooters more and like traditional shooters over bullet hells.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:20:19 2019 No.6076562

>>6076543
The games are visually readable, and you can go by visuals and be completely fine until the final parts of the games by which point you should already have a feel for your hitbox. The fuck is "Nothing in the game works to make me work harder" even supposed to mean? You expect the game to hand you clear solutions to all its patterns and give you confidence that you can dodge them next time? Well no the game expects you to be a big boy and consciously think about what you're doing if you want to improve.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:20:48 2019 No.6076564 >>6076557 >playing for hours Oh the horror. You might have to play a fun video game for hours to get good at it. All shooters use the exact same patterns.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:22:06 2019 No.6076569

>>6076560
Maybe I like bullet hells, just don't like when the game throws an autistic color spam at you, so you die 20 times and continue every time and then game over.

This fucking sucks. Doesn't feel like progress at all. Doesn't feel like learning anything. Where are the learning tools?

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:23:59 2019 No.6076578

>>6076557
If it was possible to figure everything out on the fly then the games wouldn't be challenging at all, you can do it in between runs, while credit feeding, during practice modes or watching your own replays. Who tf expects to beat a hard game first try or even improve at all without practicing and critically reflecting on youe performance?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:24:30 2019 No.6076580 >>6076562 >The games are visually readable No lol, half the time you survive because of the tiny hitbox and you're like "ok I didn't do shit but I lived". and then you die you feel exactly the same. It's retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:25:29 2019 No.6076581 >>6076526 Quote is from Nintendo Power review of Chaos Field, which isn't even bullet hell, nor is it by Cave. Shitty troll thread, do the needful. https://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/chaos-field

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:26:47 2019 No.6076583 >>6076580 idk maybe try dodging and keeping track of the bullets next time

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:26:55 2019 No.6076584

>>6076578
Man what the fuck is this, it's like asking me to turn the game into a speed run on my first playthrough. so shmups are just zero fun start cracking numbers or fuck off? No wonder nobody plays these games anymore. I would like to at least pay attention to what's attacking or fucking SOMETHING, not just look at purple dots

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:27:31 2019 No.6076585 >>6076526 Stick to hori shooters, dad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:28:42 2019 No.6076587 >>6076581 Idc what it's from I just read and it's exactly how I felt and it was from a shmup site by a grumpy shmupper

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:32:34 2019 No.6076592

>>6076584
Learning and improving is part of the fun as is the increasingly sick dodges and sense of control you feel as you get better at the basics. What "fun" do you want, you expect the games to just stroke your ego and never throw anything overwhelming at you? Tough shit, that's part of the fun, it's intimidating at first then you learn and gain control, it's satisfying and feels cool to execute. Also focusing on enemies is exactly what you do in most of the games, because focusing on bullets is defensive and doesn't set you up for the next waves.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:38:15 2019 No.6076601

>>6076592
>Learning and improving is part of the fun
I have nothing to look forward so learning and improving is pointless
>increasingly sick dodges and sense of control
My dodges are fine I don't feel like getting better mechanically for no reason
>sense of control
My sense of control is fine
>you get better at the basics
The basics are just reading what's coming at me so its replaying over and over until i understand the wave. in fact i should have save states but i don't, cave didn't give them to me
>What "fun" do you want
Something that doesn't feel like "ok i tried and died there was nothing i could do"
>you expect the games to just stroke your ego
I expect them to be fun
>never throw anything overwhelming at you
its called learning curve for a reason shmups dont have it

This shit is fail.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:45:47 2019 No.6076616

>>6076601
>its called learning curve for a reason shmups dont have it
They do have it. Why are you jumping into hard shmups when you are clearly a beginner? If you are dying to play cave games, play the 360 ports as they have beginner modes that scrubs like you can 1cc with ease.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:57:04 2019 No.6076628 File: 18 KB, 304x230, progear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6076585 >all horis are dadshit Cavecucks don't even know anything about their own company, lmao.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 20:57:35 2019 No.6076630

>>6076557
What do you think the different colors/bullet sprites for different attacks are for? You're supposed to look at the whole screen. The games go out of their way to make the patterns readable, and it's not the designers fault if you only look at the immediate vicinity of your own ship and try to twitch your way to victory.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:04:55 2019 No.6076647

>>6076601
>My dodges are fine
>My sense of control is fine
Then why are you complaining that dodging feels like unintended bullshit and that the games aren't visually clear? Once you know what you're doing the dodging is very deliberate and keeping track of bullets is part of maintaining control.
>The basics are just reading what's coming at me so its replaying over and over until i understand the wave.
Yes and thinking about what's happening and what you're doing instead of just throwing runs at the game hoping something will stick. And what's the alternative? In old school shmups you'll often outright die because of some really fast patterns you didn't expect and didn't notice in time, you either bitch about that or you suck it up and remember to dodge it next time.
>its called learning curve for a reason shmups dont have it
Sure they do, the difficulty gradually escalates, Cave in particular always introduce patterns through simplified slower variations before adding complexity. It seems to me as though you expect to beat the game and do well without practice

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:08:58 2019 No.6076658

>>6076616
No i don't care about your 1cc bullshit. There's a bigger problem that you're not seeing. I've played shmups that didn't care about art and story at all and I didn't complain because had all the emphasis.

When i play cave shmup i'm appalled because it tries to a story, it has beautiful art and music and... all of it is lost on you, the pacing is horrendous, it resembles something of a final battle a climax, there are constant bullets to dodge waves of enemies are pouring in, its not giving you TIME to appreciate the art in the game and the difficulty is shallow, reactionary. a learner is not introduced to patterns properly, doesn't get a chance to appreciate the adventure because there's no time to shift focus.

bullshit, this is just bad design. Why waste a whole game because the audience is expected to know things already? LET ME APPRECIATE YOUR GAME, you fucking cave faggot hacks.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:12:34 2019 No.6076661

>>6076658
All you're saying is that they are games in the truest sense that primarily focus on the aspects most important to gameplay with art and music being background elements rather than the main draw. And that they don't waste the player's time just to accommodate some noobs who could just as well learn the basics and appreciate purrrrdddddy backgrounds in novice modes or while credit feeding.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:19:36 2019 No.6076669

>>6076661
>a coherent presentation is inherently bad because muh noob pandering
This is how i can tell you're a mental case from too many purple dots in your field of vision. You have no fucking idea how to make a good game that doesn't feel like a bunch of number crunching.

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:39:17 2019 No.6076693

>>6076669
Quote the exact part of the post where I said that. What's bad is sacrificing high intensity pacing for the sake of showing off some backgrounds and giving noobs room to breathe, presentation is surface level, it should be sacrificed when needed to service the gameplay, and the first few credits are a tiny sliver of anyone's playtime of a shmup or arcade game, they don't matter

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:43:00 2019 No.6076695

Your brain isn't reacting fast enough because you haven't played enough actual games because you've playing too many interactive movies.

You can easily admire the enemy sprites and backgrounds on normal difficulty. Instead of being a scrub and pretending it is the game's fault, you should focus on practicing by playing. Which is what skill is, practice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:46:40 2019 No.6076703 >>6076695 >practicing videogames why not practice an actually useful skill instead

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:47:37 2019 No.6076706 >>6076703 False equivalence. You're going to play video games anyway.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:52:50 2019 No.6076723 >>6076706 yeah, but I wanna play games to have fun, not turn it into work.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:55:43 2019 No.6076731 >>6076723 Challenges are fun.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 16 21:58:48 2019 No.6076740 >>6076731 memorizing how to play a videogame like a robot is fun to you?

Anonymous Mon Dec 16 22:00:21 2019 No.6076748

>>6076740
Memorization can sometimes be fun, sometimes not. I don't know why you don't like using your brain. Memorizing things is good for you.

There's literally a way to "get better" at any shooter ever that's fun which is to track how many times you continued on a run and try to beat your record.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 00:53:27 2019 No.6077017 >>6076557 >i'm too retarded to understand something so it's impossible

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 00:58:35 2019 No.6077028 >>6076526 I like some of the arcade games that their logo happens to appear in.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 01:15:47 2019 No.6077064

Why does everyone hate on dodonpachi I'm not really into danmaku myself but I thought getting combos and switching between the rapid fire or laser was a fun mechanic. Also uncovering the hidden bees was another fun thing. I dont pull my dick between my legs and let other dudes fuck me in the ass so my opinion on shmups is probably worthless

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 01:35:47 2019 No.6077084 >>6077064 Nobody hates DDP, well besides fags anyway. Thing about it is that the chaining system is that it's extremely punishing for even the smallest mistakes so that puts off almost everybody but a few perfectionists from touching the scoring.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 01:45:55 2019 No.6077095
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Pretty sad to see how the only way to discuss shmups on /jarpig/ is to engage with obvious trolls and shitters that don't like the genre but the few shmup fans around are so desperate for conversation they'll bite anyway just to talk about the games in some capacity.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 01:46:33 2019 No.6077097

>>6076543
>professional reviewer
So a retard?
The incentive to continue playing is to learn how to read the screen and do better. This isn't exactly rocket science, but the fact that you give a shit what a "professional reviewer" says tells us a lot about you.
>This shit is completely unintuitive
No it's not, maybe you should just get good.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 02:08:21 2019 No.6077123

>>6076543
>Nothing in the game works to make me work harder

>what is high score
>what is 1cc
>what is beating the secret route

woah it's like it's a simple arcade game and not cinematic shooter with journalist mode where token black woman falls in love with you

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 02:20:58 2019 No.6077138

>>6077095
Honestly if I was in you all's position, I wouldn't even try to talk about the genre as a whole. I'd scrape through everything I've played and haven't and identify the very best of the best that represent the peak of the genre, so that when detractors and passerbys want to understand why these games are worth playing, they have examples of all the potential it has, embodied in these near perfect games that they just enjoy even though they wouldn't touch the genre otherwise.

Only game that comes to the unitiated's mind is Ikaruga, and I know you all hate that. So, make your own UNBIASED list that makes you immune from being accused of having shit taste in games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 02:24:44 2019 No.6077143 >>6077138 Impossible since these aren't jarpig-friendly games I just don't bother, just saw this and wanted to comment on how sad the whole situation is

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 02:56:45 2019 No.6077186 >>6076534 Who are you asking faggot?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 03:53:32 2019 No.6077239 get gud

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 03:55:23 2019 No.6077242

Hard shmups are an acquired taste. You need to have a skillset to really enjoy them, and the thrill is being under tension while seeking your goals. The learning process is fun but also painful.
The best thing is attaining your goals, surprising yourself and going further and further in the genre.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:07:41 2019 No.6077252
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>>6076526
>>6076557
>>6076569

OP I was in your position not long ago.
Learning danmakus (or shmups in general) is a huge pain in the ass at first and it's tempting to look for excuses and reasons not to like these games. But if you enjoy them even a little bit as a scrub with no skills you'll enjoy them sooooooo much more once you are competent.

Don't give up, just play a little every day, don't worry about results, just grind it out for 1hour a day, and in a couple months you'll be surprised and shocked at how far you've come. What seemed impossible before is within your grasp.

Another thing to consider is maybe start with something less daunting, what are you playing and what are you aiming for?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:09:33 2019 No.6077254

>>6076557
I can do it within first playing the game. Not well, but it's quite clear that a mix of pattern recognition and knowing how to play a shmup (which is something you need to develop as it's not as simple as dodge and hammer fire) can get you quite far into any Cave game. Typically my first time playing any shmup I'll get into the end of the second or third stage on one credit.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:09:45 2019 No.6077256

>>6077252
I should also say make your practice sessions efficient, simply playing is good, but it's better to practice with some structure. Use save states, consciously think about the patterns you see, some are aimed, some are scattered, some can be kited around, some can be tap dodged, others need big sweeping motions, etc.

Read the "full extent of the jam" and go to shmups system11 forums and study their newbie guides

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:10:47 2019 No.6077257 >>6076740 It's not memorisation.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:52:32 2019 No.6077275
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>>6076740
>memorizing how to play a videogame like a robot is fun to you?
Yes. Because humans are not robots and executing what we've memorized takes skill, effort and concentration, specially if we're talking high level shmup play. It's not something trivial.

But you have to play well to understand what that feeling is like, and then you'll understand why the process of practice and memorization is not so bad.

Don't use excuses and faulty reductionism. Why don't you try hard?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:54:48 2019 No.6077278

Gentlemen, I like shmups.
Gentlemen, I really like shmups...

No, gentlemen, I love shmups!

I love bullet-hells. I love kuso-games.
I love methodical-gems. I love doujin-games.
I love chaining. I love grazing.
I love milking bosses for gems, and chips.

Flying across space, on fields, over war-zones, in forests, through frozen tundras, through deserts, on the sea, in the air. I love every type of shmup that can be played on this earth.

I love blasting enemies to smithereens with autofire salvos that thunder across the enemy lines.
My heart leaps with joy whenever an enemy plane survives 3 bombs and is then shot to pieces.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 04:56:12 2019 No.6077280

>>6076543
>>6076543

I love the sight of credit-feeders being ridiculed in forums, it's such an irresistible pleasure.
And there is nothing more arousing, than the sounds made by veterans dropping like flies, screaming in agony as their minds gets cut down by constant resets!
When a band of pitiful scorers make their final stand with nothing but their will, only to have their arms smashed to injury by carpal tunnel, I'm in ecstasy.

I love it when my extends are ravaged by a TLB's final pattern.
It's very sad to fail reaching stages and bosses that you were supposed to be consistent at, and seeing all that energy, your planning and practice go to waste.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 06:08:18 2019 No.6077327
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>>6076526
>Where's the incentive to continue playing?
Who said you have to like Cave shmups?
Maybe you need to find a different style/company you like? But if you're against memorization, practice, dying A LOT, and crazy difficulty spikes then shmups probably aren't for you.

You can take the dadshit pill and play normal/classic shmups. Perfectly fine.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 13:45:47 2019 No.6077883

>>6077252
>>6077256
Nah I've got nothing to prove. I'm a competent player. I'll still play the game for a bit, but this shit is fail and dissatisfying. The premise is too simplistic; develop technical skill with the stick and muscle memory, memorize patterns, train eyes to recognize.

What are the tools to do so? Bash head against the wall and press continue when you die until you suck less. Absolute retardation. There's nothing to look forward to except purple dots because there's no content. There's no training mode like in Tekken where you get muscle memory up to speed on individual patterns. This shit NEEDS save states but doesn't have them, and having to resort to save states should be an after thought past having enjoyed the presentation.

The whole genre is a fucking joke for autists. There's no way to enjoy this garbage past one game. Recognizing patterns consisting of purple dots does not equal continued sense of enjoyment.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 13:50:41 2019 No.6077901

>>6077095
>/jarpig/
Your imaginary jrpg vs shmup war doesn't exist. People who were actually alive back in retro times didn't engage in genre wars, and anyway neither shmups nor rpgs were the most popular genres, and it shows (most threads on /vr/ are about platformers and action games in general, mostly sidescrollers which were the most popular kind of games back then.
If anything, shmups were more popular than RPGs up until the late 90s when FF VII and its FMVs converted a lot of people into the genre.
Stop having an imaginary war and trying to drag the rest of /vr/ with your delusions.
Anyway you guys know most of you don't really discuss shmups either, when you're not complaining about dadshits, you're shitposting about people, posting their Steam accounts, etc. It was never about the games, you're just a lonely teenager in search of a group.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 14:08:30 2019 No.6077951 >>6077064 ddp is shit for popularising the bullet hell which killed trad shmups and inspired poohou

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 14:17:15 2019 No.6077971 I kept spamming continue, beat a bunch of bosses and it gave me a cut scene and then GAME OVER what the fuck does this game want?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 14:33:44 2019 No.6078003

OK

OK

get this

i get it now

this thing that's called continue

they call it

CREDIT FEEDING

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS

so because i'm pressing start im cheating

and no wait this is real get this

I SHOULDNT DO THAT

despite the game giving me the option to do so

I SHOULDNT PRESS CONTINUE

I SHOULD RESTART

AND DO THINGS

WHAT??????????????????

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT

I JUST WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN

WHY WOULD I DO SO AGAIN

I SAW ALL ENEMIES AND BOSSES

THERES NO POINT PLAYING ANYMORE

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT THE FUCK

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 14:49:04 2019 No.6078032 >>6078003 Sounds like you don't enjoy playing video games anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 14:53:01 2019 No.6078047 >>6078032 I beat the game. it isn't telling me what to do. it's just the same except more bullets. Why does it cost 20 dolla on steam?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 15:20:34 2019 No.6078089 Cope Cavecucks Cope P

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 15:22:27 2019 No.6078094 >>6077901 You're right about the genre's history but that doesn't matter, this board is mostly filled with zoomer jarpigs and if you deny that you're simply delusional.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 15:24:20 2019 No.6078098

>>6077901
>People who were actually alive back in retro times didn't engage in genre wars
Because RPG cancer hadn't killed videogames yet. Notice how every modern game has to sport RPG elements, and that arcade games are dead? You can thank Final Fantasoy for that.

>most threads on /vr/ are about platformers
This is a blatant lie. There are usually 10+ highly active RPG threads up concurrently on /vr/.
JRPG is doubtlessly the most popular non-shitpost/non-general subject.

>sidescrollers which were the most popular kind of games back then.
>shmups were more popular than RPGs up until the late 90s
"back then" doesn't matter, /vr/ is not a time bubble for you to LARP like it's still the '90s.
If it were, there would be more shmup threads than RPG which is clearly not the case.

>Anyway you guys know most of you don't really discuss shmups either, when you're not complaining about dadshits, you're shitposting about people, posting their Steam accounts, etc. It was never about the games, you're just a lonely teenager in search of a group.
Still had more interesting shmup discussion when it happened than /vr/ ever could, though.
Also unlike /vr/, there were actual players with decent scores/clears.

>Your imaginary jrpg vs shmup war doesn't exist.
>Stop having an imaginary war and trying to drag the rest of /vr/ with your delusions.
No. Stop being triggered over anons disapproving of your RPG/progression cancer and stop brushing under the rug the fact that this board is being overrun by jarpigs who either hate or don't care about skill-based gaming.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 15:32:17 2019 No.6078124

>>6077883
>What are the tools to do so? Bash head against the wall and press continue when you die until you suck less.
This is such a fucking stupid midset. You can take this notion to most games really, but you also can just practice to recognize patterns and react better in general.
I rarely ever stick to one shump for any amount of time, I like to play a bit of everything, 1943, Gunnac, Rayforce, cave games, 2hu, whatever. I've gotten good at reacting where I can often play though shumps well without having ever played them, because I focused on being able to read the screen and react on the fly and don't rely on just memory. To me its more fun this way, but thats not to knock hard memorizing either if that person finds it fun.
Thinking shit can only be played by mussel memory though is the sign of someone who is either shit or dosn't have much experience with the genre.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 15:34:09 2019 No.6078130

>>6078047
Read this asap:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160520112100/http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture
>b-but icyc-
No excuses. Arcade games are explicitly designed to be cleared on one credit and their challenge is practically ruined by credit feeding. Literally anyone can slog through a Metal Slug or an Espgaluda if they're rich enough and the shot button doesn't give out, given that these games are basically on rails. In a genre that amounts to moving a ship across a screen and shooting stuff there's really not much to see; you'd be better off watching a movie if you just want to go through the motions and watch a spectacle. Mastering a game's mechanics and being able to pull off tricky feats is immensely more satisfying, and it's a feeling no movie could ever give you. Presentation is only half the experience.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 16:02:24 2019 No.6078179

>>6078130
This is such crock of shit from some delusional tard who got brainwashed into thinking unless the game holds you at a gun point to not die in it, you cannot have fun.

He genuinely shits on collectathon platformers like Spyro out of sheer hate for anything that doesn't punish the fuck out of you and rush you through the gameplay.

Guess fucking what, these apparently terrible collectathon platformers have gameplay on par with the shmup faggotry because people routed them and opt for playing fast if they feel like it.

What a shocker, if game reaches a wider audience, it might even convert some of the "disbelievers" into hardcore players if they aren't chased away for being too casual. Pathetic. No wonder shmups are dead, its playerbase never learned how to have fun a way that isn't based on existing knowledge of having played 1000 other carbon copies of uninspired cave trash.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 17:12:20 2019 No.6078283

>>6078179
So what's your actual complaint about the article, that he hates Spyro, a shit game for toddlers? And yes when games are crappy people are forced to come up with arbitrary challenges like speedruns to create longevity, competition, depth and challenge. It's a sign that the developers didn't satisfy inherent needs players have. These games don't convert people into "hardcore" players, "hardcore" players convert these games into "hardcore" games. Shmups don't need any of this, all the systems are already in there. You can either ignore them and credit feed, discarding your score, destroying the game's balance and removing all engagement that exists normally, or you could engage with those systems and get good. And to be blunt, the former playstyle is as close to being incorrect as you can get in a video game, save things like cheats.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 17:15:24 2019 No.6078285

>>6078179
You're taking his points out of context; Icy is describing the incentive for difficulty simply for arcade games, not for every game.
Think about the design of arcade games in general; they're fast paced, on 'rails' and have virtually no padding - there's no time to stop and smell the roses in a packed arcade, so no lengthy breaks. Additionally, they only cost a credit or two to operate. If these games could be cleared with one credit, then there wouldn't be much point for most people to have a second go - it certainly wouldn't be stimulating enough. At the same time these games need to be simple enough to play and understand so there's an incentive to keep trying. These simple games require this challenge to not only be addictive, but immersive. What would be engaging about a shmup where you just scroll through and shoot slow-moving asteroids the whole game?
There isn't this great need for console collect-a-thons to have excessive difficulty or a fast pace because there's no line of people waiting behind you for their go - it's a different environment. The idea behind these games is that the fun comes not really from mastering system mechanics, but from exploring the game world and searching every nook and cranny for collectibles. Of course a grown adult and hardcore gamer isn't going to find these sorts of games engaging - they're monotonous and too easy on their own, hence the 'need' for speedrunning.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 17:19:06 2019 No.6078290

>>6078047
The game isn't there to just be beaten, it's there to be mastered. This is like picking up Devil May Cry and then doing one scrubby item spam run, then calling it short and easy. No, anyone who treats games as something other than disposable trash will want to learn them more thoroughly and beat the harder difficulties, get S ranks, learn the scoring and combat system, and so on. I sincerely hope you're trolling and don't actually treat games in such a soulless fashion.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 17:45:42 2019 No.6078324

>>6078285
The reality is some crackpot arcade retard who couldn't let go of his sheltered worldview that already long died out by 2007 and so went on a long rant about arcades having produced better players when they were still thriving but what escaped him was the fact that little competitive scene that was polite enough not to credit feed because of lines and looking up each other's gameplay was just a sign of the scene working around the shitty limitations of the quarter system.

The biggest fucking facepalm moment behind arcades is thinking you not credit feeding is a good thing. Wrong, the smarter you play and the more you encourage others to play smart and hog the machines for 1-2 hours on a single credit, the less profitable it becomes.

It truly is the ultimate irony when you realize the positives you thought of so highly were just a sign of something entirely different (players exploiting the system meant to rob you of money with cheap deaths), isn't it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 17:48:50 2019 No.6078326 >Shit hits the fan BOMBSPAM! >Shit hits the fan BOMBSPAM! >Shit hits the fan BOMBSPAM! Presented by CAVEKEKS

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 17:59:02 2019 No.6078338

>>6078324
>Wrong, the smarter you play and the more you encourage others to play smart and hog the machines for 1-2 hours on a single credit, the less profitable it becomes.
What is this idiotic nonsense? If you have a set of casuals they will drop a few coins into a machine and never play it again just like the resident credit feeder ITT has done, while dedicated players will keep coming back and spending more money learning the game. What you're saying would be true only if you had an endless supply of casual players coming into the arcades at consistent rates, which isn't the case.
>It truly is the ultimate irony when you realize the positives you thought of so highly were just a sign of something entirely different (players exploiting the system meant to rob you of money with cheap deaths), isn't it?
For a start the deaths aren't cheap and playing the game normally can hardly be called "exploiting" anything. Developers have naturally cancerous inclinations, hardware limitations act as a filter for their creativity and allow them to produce good games. The format was incredibly healthy for game design because it gave developers the right set of incentives.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:00:15 2019 No.6078341

/jarpig/ does truly seem to need to have some thread once in a while to vent their hate towards evil shmups and arcade games, probably a regular cope because deep down they feel bad for having played games all their life and that one time they tried the genre they couldn't manage with the fact that it exposed how much they suck at the one thing they have in life due to a life of easy games designed for small children.
I invite the very few arcade and shmup fans to just give up on this place and let them rot.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:13:21 2019 No.6078361

>>6078338
>The format was incredibly healthy for game design
Riight. You know I'm not going to act like arcades used to be some holy grail of gaming in the 90s that absolute gaming elites frequented. Even in my commie country this shit used to pop up, obviously because it was profitable for a time until people wisened up and stopped wasting both time and money driving there and losing quarters.

So what was it outside of select few very popular places? Just a mid-sized room with a bunch of cabinets where you could play a random shmup featuring a jet and fuckton of explosions that looked impressive at the time and a super fucking short time you were allowed to play before random flying shit put you out of commission.

Obviously what I did next as a kid was stop playing and never return because this was neither fun nor interesting and there sure as fuck weren't any particularly committed players to spend hours upon hours perfecting their game. Only a loser would do that.

The fucking truth is even shitty NES knockoffs with terrible graphics were more interetsing than arcades because they had actual content in games and didn't force you to try hard. That was the biggest fucking mistake, to think people want to be forced to play well. Fuck you, nobody wants to be a little slave a shitty quarter devouring monster.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:17:06 2019 No.6078367 File: 11 KB, 225x300, kitchen diva.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >muh content >forced to play well reeeeeeeee

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:18:36 2019 No.6078372

>>6078361
>That was the biggest fucking mistake, to think people want to be forced to play well. Fuck you, nobody wants to be a little slave a shitty quarter devouring monster.
Lol agreed though I don't consider this a good thing since it leaves us with content rich but ultimately boring and disposable games. Why are you complaining about quarter eating anyway, aren't you playing on MAME or using a home port? That's pretty much a complete non-issue now.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:22:08 2019 No.6078378

>>6078372
>Why are you complaining about quarter eating anyway
Because I was still addressing the article of that mental case Icy guy jizzing over what epic gamers arcades put together when it was just one big money making scheme and the design was there purely to accomodate the profits, not the players. It just goes to show what insects japs are that they fell for it and formed a competitive scene around it.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:25:19 2019 No.6078381

>>6078378
All games are a big money making scheme with game design that's meant to generate profit. Arcades are in some ways more ethical than even the standard "buy game and get the full package" deal because you pay to play rather than committing to your purchase, though that still comes with many additional problems like sunk cost mentality. But that full package deal is increasingly becoming archaic with developers finding better ways to milk players. Icycalm's a mong but his points still stand even if you completely disregard developer intentions, which you should.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:28:39 2019 No.6078390

>>6078361
Jarpig zoomer larper detected, noone that lived through the NES era would cry about having to get good, console games demanded skill too, just to a lesser degree on average than arcades. And very rarely did they have more content than similar arcades anyway, not that that matters anyway, what matters is if a game's fun to replay, which is something that people who actually lived back then and couldn't afford to have many games all get.
Your mentality is what has killed gaming except for jarpigs.
Just be honest and admit that you hate arcades because you want 0 difficulty "games" to "play" for aesthetics, story and feeling of character progression. Because that's what you grew up with.
This is why there's a divide on /vr/ between jarpigs and arcade fans. Between fans of "games" and fans of games. Between those who only like old games that resemble new ones and those who actually enjoy old school design.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:29:11 2019 No.6078392

>>6078381
>Icycalm's a mong but his points still stand
Except they don't because a fuckton of people exist who get good at games because they loved the initial experience. Basically, arcade gives you a PTSD so you come back out of frustration. In healthy game design you come back because it was good enough to return to it.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:29:41 2019 No.6078393

>>6078324
>Wrong, the smarter you play and the more you encourage others to play smart and hog the machines for 1-2 hours on a single credit, the less profitable it becomes.
...which can only happen when people have invested enough time (and credits) into the game to even think about 1CC'ing it. You need to be familiar with the system, level structures and enemy patterns to even think about playing smartly, and even moreso being able to even execute those strategies by getting a handle on the controls and mastering them. So yeah, you could study someone weaving through Ketsui's bullet patterns and become familiar with all of them, but you still need to be able to pull it off yourself - that can only come from playing the game, which requires inserting a credit. Also arcade games are typically designed to run fairly quickly when 1CC'd (usually around 15-30 minutes), so even the small upper echelon of players who CAN clear these games on one credit don't stay on for long.
I don't see where you're getting this idea that competitive players are banding together to work around the credit system, as if beating games is some sort of job (maybe for you, considering you clearly don't enjoy shmups and other arcade games). Can't you see these people stick with these games, keep at them and watch each other play because they actually ENJOY THE FUCKING GAMES and thus want to get better and see more of them?

>>6078361
>think people want to be forced to play well.
Some people like a good challenge, and they are the sort who enjoy difficult arcade games and appreciate skill-based gaming. Obviously you couldn't - they're clearly too much for you.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:32:58 2019 No.6078405

>>6078390
Do you really think the majority of NES kids bothered getting good? Especially once 100 in 1 carts started popping up nobody bothered going back to games that were getting too repetitive. I remember original SMB or doc mario, star force or whatever the fuck. You played a little bit of everything and moved on. Nobody in their right mind took it more serously than that and arcades epitomized the absolutely worst parts of the NES.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:33:29 2019 No.6078407

>>6078094
RPGs are more popular than shmups today, that's right. But that happened after 4.
I don't mind JRPGs or shmups, both can have good and bad games. What I don't like is LARPing zoomers, either jrpg fans or shmup fans. Enough with this "genre war" nonsense.
>>6078098
>This is a blatant lie
There's more RPG-related threads than shmups, but are still not the majority. I don't get your obsession with RPGs, it's almost as if RPG fans raped your entire family and you're seeking revenge. Calm down.
>JRPG is doubtlessly the most popular non-shitpost/non-general subject.
The fuck? I'm not a regular in RPG threads, but I don't think they're extent of shitposting. There's only a handful of franchises that don't get shitposted on /vr/, and none of them are RPGs.
>No. Stop being triggered over anons disapproving of your RPG/progression cancer and stop brushing under the rug the fact that this board is being overrun by jarpigs who either hate or don't care about skill-based gaming.
>muh skill-based
>muh progress
This is the kind of zoomer LARPing that needs to end. You're not skilled just because you pretend to copy a japanese player, and when you actually spend more time complaining about older guys owning PCBs than actually playing.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:33:42 2019 No.6078408

>>6078392
You got that wrong, some people are desperate to engage more deeply with games so they go with hardcore self imposed challenges since games like arcades actually built for a deep challenging experience aren't popular. They probably think they're worthless due to all this shilling against them by retards like you around.
Most people never desire to go beyond playing mindlessly. When games force you to get good, you get better and gain an appreciation for this experience that maybe you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Suddenly, baby games designed for retards start feeling insulting (because they are). Modern gaming is the result of people that never had to try to get good after some years of transition by slowly lowering the entry bar in popular games.
Not that a jarpig would know any of this, of course.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:34:46 2019 No.6078414

>>6078393
>Some people like a good challenge, and they are the sort who enjoy difficult arcade games and appreciate skill-based gaming. Obviously you couldn't - they're clearly too much for you.
Jarpig shitters literally can't comprehend this, don't bother

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:35:12 2019 No.6078420

>>6078392
>Basically, arcade gives you a PTSD so you come back out of frustration
You could say that if your entire view of challenge is this twisted, almost pathological. The reality is of course that challenge is part of games, it's what makes them engaging especially in the long term. People come back because they love the well constructed challenge and huge depth contained in these small, straight-to-the-point games, ALONG with the game feel (which is what you call "initial experience", at least in the context of actual games rather than interactive stories).

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:36:06 2019 No.6078425 Didn't icycalm drop arcade games altogether to focus exclusively on cinematic modern experiences? Or I'm mistaking him for someone else?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:36:17 2019 No.6078427 >>6078405 I mean at some point you had to try or else the games would get boring. Why the larp?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:38:07 2019 No.6078432

>>6078414
You can talk all you want and I'll still know how full of shit you are because at the end of the day I have the awareness that I'm not a casual nor afraid of learning any game at a high level and have done so, but I can still say with full confidence that a game with barely any content that expects me to start researching from minute fucking 1 BELONGS IN THE TRASH. You lose, cocksucker.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:42:15 2019 No.6078447 >>6078432 Post the games you learnt at a high level This board doesn't even have RPG speedrunning threads ffs there's NO skilled talk here of any sort, if you try to have it get ready for the outrage and ban.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:43:35 2019 No.6078449

>>6078447
Not the anon you're talking to, but please re-read your post.
>you guys don't even speedrun RPGs, ffs there's no skilled talk here
Are you fucking serious, nigger? Read your post out loud and tell me it doesn't sound like you're in desperate need of an actual life.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:45:06 2019 No.6078460

>>6078432
>but I can still say with full confidence that a game with barely any content that expects me to start researching from minute fucking 1 BELONGS IN THE TRASH
Shmups don't require you to "start researching from minute 1" you absolute idiot, you don't need research to get 1cc's and get good at the basics, it's only at the absolute highest levels where research becomes necessary. You keep jumping around from point to point incoherently, it's like you just want something to whinge about after getting filtered

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:47:33 2019 No.6078470

Both shmups and rpgs might require research. In some shmups (especially late/post-/vr/ ones) scoring can get really weird and cryptic, but also happens with RPGs, be it cryptic side-quests, minmaxing and shit like that.
The internet has ruined video games, anyway. People want to be part of certain "gaming tribes", to feel like they belong somewhere.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:48:14 2019 No.6078472

>>6078392
>Basically, arcade gives you a PTSD so you come back out of frustration.
Is losing in a video game really that traumatic for you? Give me a break. Good arcade games pose enough of a spectacle and exhilarating feeling that you WANT to tackle their challenges and explore them more in-depth. If you weren't blown away by Mushihime-sama Futari or The Last Blade on your first go then I don't know what to say.

>>6078425
icy still enjoys arcade games, but doesn't get to play them as often anymore given he's moved out of Japan.

>>6078432
>a game with barely any content that expects me to start researching from minute fucking 1
That is the content, dummy: the actual friggin' game. You either like it or you don't. Or would you rather have Ketsui stop you with cinematic cutscenes and finding hidden goodies?

>You lose, cocksucker.
You're really obsessed with being a winner, aren't you? Guess that's why you're so resentful towards arcade games.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:48:27 2019 No.6078474

>>6078460
Except they do because they assault you with repetition and suddenly you wonder am i on the optimal controller? should i look stuff up before continuing this shitfest? etc. claiming only highest tier strats require research is nonsense. The problem is obviously the game not communicating shit and expecting you to figure everything out. Research is relative to skill level.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:51:08 2019 No.6078479 File: 14 KB, 577x111, Desjarpig.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Jarpigs are so cancerous they've even infected the shmup community, it's filled with jarpig secondary posers.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:51:12 2019 No.6078480

>>6078425
No, from what I understand Icycalm just formed some weird ideology about immersion basically advocating against games having non-diagetic abstract elements. So he will shill belt scrollers because they're just games about beating people up with every other element being made for that purpose while shitting on shmup with a focus on scoring systems because scoring is an abstract meta game that's not incorporated into the game world.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:51:23 2019 No.6078481 >>6078472 >Is losing in a video game really that traumatic for you? Don't make this about me fuckhead. Like the entire reason people go back to NES games is because their shit tier design frustrated the fuck out of them and it stuck.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:52:42 2019 No.6078485

>>6078472
>icy still enjoys arcade games, but doesn't get to play them as often anymore given he's moved out of Japan.
huh, well I don't follow that guy or anything, in fact I learned about him here on /vr/. Read a couple of his rants, he seemed like an unstable person.
Very weird to go from "Arcade-only, it's my lifestyle!" to playing cinematic experiences. I had the impression he dropped arcades altogether to focus on cinematic experiences, he seemed like the kind of aspie who would focus 100% on one thing only, unable to appreciate variety.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:53:16 2019 No.6078487 >>6078481 Just go back to elf

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:53:59 2019 No.6078490 >>6078479 This is the kind of thing that I reject from the /vg/ kids. >posts literally who screenshot >twitter Just fuck off, you just care about gossip, not video games. >m-muh community

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:54:28 2019 No.6078492 File: 186 KB, 547x303, monkeypilled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:55:31 2019 No.6078494

>>6078485
>he seemed like the kind of aspie who would focus 100% on one thing only, unable to appreciate variety.
Yes, remember Ulilililia? The guy basically went from min-maxing rpgs and obsessing game design to a ridiculous to basically avoiding computers altogether.

I really wouldn't be surprised if shmupfaggots are aspies by default and so they expect pandering that excludes everyone else.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:56:07 2019 No.6078495

>>6078490
That guy isn't a literally who he's the member of the biggest shmup forum that keeps the biggest number of scoreboards. Despite the fact that he barely if at all plays these games and would rather play Pokémon, Final Faggotry or Kingdom Sharts. It's a perfect example of the jarpig issue.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:57:43 2019 No.6078497

>>6078474
>Except they do because they assault you with repetition and suddenly you wonder am i on the optimal controller?
They do because you're a faggot who's constantly looking for shortcuts? Fucking hell how did you even supposedly get to "high level" in other games and not form any good practice methods and the ability to critically analyze your performance. The games would only MAKE you do research if getting good or making progress was unreasonably difficult, which isn't even remotely the case until you get to the highest levels of play. You can do research if you are struggling to speed up the learning process but that's on you, or you can just ask for general tips from other players which is completely normal and done for every game that's not effortlessly easy.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:58:04 2019 No.6078498

>>6078494
Uli was always a very inoffensive aspie, too pure for the internet.
In fact, IIRC, he overcame some of his traumas, and now has a job, IRL friends, and likes to go on vacations frequently to swim (he used to be afraid of water). It's a story that had a happy end, even if he doesn't play videogames anymore.
icycalm getting into "muh immersion" cinematic experiences is like a very bad ending, but you could see it coming, the guy was never likeable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:58:51 2019 No.6078504 >>6076578 Modern criticism is if a game can't be beaten on the first try, than it's artificial difficulty/bad design.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:59:06 2019 No.6078506 >>6078495 >he isn't a literally who, he's a member of a forum Oh, OK!

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 18:59:35 2019 No.6078508 File: 561 KB, 960x662, gay elf rule.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6078495

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:01:39 2019 No.6078514 >>6078506 typical /vg/, they're obsessed with forums and random people. Rarely talk about actual video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:02:09 2019 No.6078515 File: 285 KB, 1068x561, plato jarpigpilled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:02:13 2019 No.6078516

>>6078497
Lmao there is nothing wrong with me but with this pathetic caveshit design meant for robbing you of quarters at the arcade. You're telling me if I go through all content in 30 minutes I should have researched what credit feeding is and avoided pressing start because the game wasn't designed for that? Genuinely fucking embarrassing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:02:26 2019 No.6078517 >>6078506 Do you go into other communities and call the notable community leaders, organizers and members literally who's because you don't know them or care about the community or the things it's based around? Weird obsessive cunt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:04:09 2019 No.6078520 >>6078514 Why talk about games with clueless jarpigs, I talk about shmups on IRC with actual fans while laughing at you faggots here.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:04:26 2019 No.6078521

>>6078516
Well, if you're going to play a format that you're clearly unfamiliar with and that's very far detached from modern game design, maybe it's a good choice to familiarize yourself with how the format worked? But you don't need to do any of that if you pay attention, the games reset and don't save your score if you credit feed ffs, you have to be thick to not see this as an indicator that you're playing very poorly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:05:12 2019 No.6078523 File: 10 KB, 647x151, final solution to the j question.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6078495

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:06:58 2019 No.6078529

>>6078521
>score
Why would I care about score before learning how to fuck shit up effectively first? There's something about about the guy saying this bullshit is too meta for most people to care in any meaningful way. Why the fuck does the game only last 30 minutes?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:07:03 2019 No.6078530

>>6078485
>he seemed like the kind of aspie who would focus 100% on one thing only, unable to appreciate variety.
Sometimes you're in the mood to play different types of games, I guess. His list of favourite games is pretty diverse, with stuff like Max Payne, Planetary Annihilation, Super Mario World, Samurai Spirits and Devil May Cry all in the mix, iirc. There's only so much you can understand about someone from second-hand sources.
I don't recall him shilling stuff like The Last of Us or any of Sony's other cinematic bullshit, though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:08:04 2019 No.6078534 File: 20 KB, 1227x47, absolutamente elfo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] And this is a mod of that same forum (((pure coincidence)))

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:09:01 2019 No.6078536 >>6078520 Based. But I bet you actually spend more time seething ad "dadshits" who can afford PCBs with your discord friends rather than actually discussing games.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:09:40 2019 No.6078537
File: 241 KB, 500x876, greg-coomer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6078504
I've noticed this especially in recent years, it's sad how fair has become synonymous with easy. At least before people had some incoherent idea of a hypothetical supergamer who had perfect reflexes, and used that guy to determine whether something is fair or not, but now the average player is quickly becoming the standard.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:10:16 2019 No.6078540

>>6078529
>Why the fuck does the game only last 30 minutes?
You really outed yourself as a jarpig zoomer here (as if it wasn't obvious already), few NES games are longer, take Super Mario Bros.

You faggots bringing these nu-perspectives from modern games to the retro games board is obnoxious. It's almost as if you aren't really into old games, just jarpigs because they're the closest that's legal to modern games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:11:49 2019 No.6078545 >>6078536 Wrong, I really enjoy old school arcade shmups, if anything I have a preference for them, while still not disliking bullet hells. People that get PCBs aren't ridiculed just those that get them to just hoard and never play.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:12:53 2019 No.6078550

>>6078540
You're under the impression that these opinions are influenced by what I'm used and it couldn't be more wrong. It's the natural reaction to the game being fucking terrible
>oh but you're SUPPOSED to research
Where's the fucking gameplay faggot

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:13:37 2019 No.6078554

>>6078529
>Why would I care about score before learning how to fuck shit up effectively first?
Because it's a big part of the game that everything's designed around, and it's what the games save. They don't save how well you expressed your emotions with your character movements, they save your score on the in-game boards and leaderboards. Surviving longer also increases your score obviously.
>Why the fuck does the game only last 30 minutes?
Because it's meant to be replayed a lot with each sessions being one go, duh. Long games suck shit for that because the sessions stretch out for hours, nobody wants to have such long sessions of sitting on their ass and playing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:14:57 2019 No.6078561 >>6078550 >Where's the fucking gameplay faggot The game doesn't play itself and has no progression systems so there's no gameplay, BASED I guess you didn't like any game during your supposed NES childhood lmao

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:15:16 2019 No.6078562

>>6078550
>You're under the impression that these opinions are influenced by what I'm used
They undeniably are, you are used to long disposable games so you see short length as necessarily negative. Someone who plays short replayable games will welcome shorter games because they allow for quicker sessions. But you have to be self aware to understand this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:16:15 2019 No.6078567 File: 554 KB, 723x406, nice person.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6078554 >nobody wants to have such long sessions of sitting on their ass and playing. Remember who you're talking with

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:17:14 2019 No.6078569

>>6078554
It's still fucking retarded. I'm more willing to play Einhander because at least there was enough game before I was able to shoot through it on my first go. This caveshit, it's done, you just press start through and now either it's research or I should go away or repeat mindlessly. What a garbage game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:17:19 2019 No.6078571 File: 406 KB, 1510x728, pure coincidence (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:18:22 2019 No.6078573 File: 581 KB, 739x958, bbhdoj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:18:50 2019 No.6078574

>>6078571
Wow, 16 threads! That's obviously the majority of /vr/.
>most of them are bait shitposts
>Zelda is included
I like the Zelda paradox. When it's convenient for the narrative of whoever is shitposting, it's an RPG, but when it's not, it's not an RPG.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:21:26 2019 No.6078585

>>6078569
Caveshit is almost only game though, that's what you are complaining about. You aren't complaining that the games waste your time with cinematics and other surface level elements, or mandatory handholdy patronizing introductions/very slow difficulty curves. You're complaining that it just gives you a set of mechanics, a set of levels and systems and pretty much throws them at you non-stop and expects you to adapt and learn. Also then go play Einhander and simply accept that Cave's aimed at the dedicated fans who just want a pure shmup rather than the average player who wants an "experience". I don't see the problem.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:22:46 2019 No.6078594

>>6078574
Zelda is honorary gay elf, appeals to the same faggots
Not shitposting btw just voicing disapproval with the situation. What, can't dislike that the board is full of jarpigs and the fact that you can't discuss anything else?
Notice how the only way to have shmup threads is by being fueled by jarpigs that hate them?
This overwhelming jarpig pressence only attracts more of them while forcing people with other tastes away to places such as IRC.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:23:39 2019 No.6078595

>>6078585
Look you little dipshit, let me just explain my experience with this fucking game. I loaded up, I started dodging your fucking bullet hells purple dot bullshit alright. I died a bunch of times and it said continue so I pressed start. I beat a bunch of bosses and then it gave me a cutscene and a fucking GAME OVER. WHERE'S THE GAME MOTHERFUCKER, WHY DID I LOSE

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:24:33 2019 No.6078602

>>6078574
Here come the excuses. Find a single moment in time when /vr/ had 16 sidescrolling action threads up, which you claim is the most popular style. You can't, because they don't exist. At best you'll get one Megaman thread, maybe a couple of Castlevania ones and 1-2 other random sidescroller threads (usually something that achieved meme status thanks to ecelebs like AVGN) that quickly die off due to a lack of interest and that's about it.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:25:05 2019 No.6078606

>>6078594
You're just obsessed with some jarpig boogeyman, my friend.
16 threads is not the majority of /vr/.
The way to have threads going (of any kind) is to shitpost and bait people, RPG or not.
As I said, most of those threads you accomodated on that collage were bait threads.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:25:32 2019 No.6078607
File: 27 KB, 503x293, Steamflogger Boss.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This guy IS a literally who but a funny example: he inhabits the forum while never, I repeat, NEVER posting about shmups, purely inhabiting off topic threads. And he mostly likes RPGs.
How many more (((coincidences))) do we need before starting to consider there's a jarpig issue?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:26:08 2019 No.6078610

>>6078595
You lost because you didn't learn anything in the game, kept dying and your progress was pretty much discarded due to credit feeding. Depending on the game you also didn't get into the second loop and didn't fight the actual last boss. Why are you pretending to be retarded?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:27:52 2019 No.6078614

>>6078595
The game is in trying to do that without continuing, it's more fun than not trying at all. And for more experts you can try to score on top of that.
Consider continuing an option to sample the game, a practice tool, or just an option for when you don't feel like trying as hard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:28:13 2019 No.6078616 >>6078610 This is fucking outrageous when was your game going to explain any of that?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:29:49 2019 No.6078619

>>6078616
You need a game to explain to you the fact that "game over" means something, that dying all the time means you suck, and that not having your score appear on the leaderboards means that your run was in some way illegitimate? So this is the power of the modern gaymer huh

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:30:50 2019 No.6078623

>>6078606
>the jarpig issue doesn't exist
lmao the denial man
Consider the following: jarpigs don't just inhabit the many jarpig threads, but they and their views poison everything else. Just like what you're doing here and in other shmup threads.
You can't help but notice the total lack of knowledge and at best indifference towards games that differ a lot from jarpigs such as shmups.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:31:51 2019 No.6078629

>>6078602
>Find a single moment in time when /vr/ had 16 sidescrolling action threads up, which you claim is the most popular style
I just scrolled through the catalog and there's more than 16 threads about sidescrollers, even if most of them are Mario/Sonic.
But yeah, RPGs only became more popular during 5th gen, during 4th gen and before, they weren't that popular.
Shmups stopped being really popular around gen 4.
I find it strange that shmupfags aren't mad with FGC fags, since it was fighting games what actually displaced shmups as being the most popular genre at arcades in the early 90s.
But yeah, since you weren't there at the time, you have no way to know. You just go by what you see in 2019, and that's RPGs being more popular than shmups.
>b-but muh progrees, muh skill-based
monkey see monkey do is not skill.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:31:52 2019 No.6078630 >>6078619 Jarpigs were a mistake

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:33:02 2019 No.6078636 >>6078619 I don't fucking know maybe it means that I beat it I got the cutscene didn't I? Maybe it means I did it and so the game ended. So this is the power of communicating absolutely fucking nothing and expecting you to guess things at a gun point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:33:44 2019 No.6078638 >>6076740 memorizing how to play an instrument like a robot is fun to you?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:33:46 2019 No.6078639

>>6078629
This board has no fighting game fans. But it does have jarpigs. A whole lot of them. The past doesn't matter, it's the present and the board's situation.
You just explained why these are all jarpig zoomers. They try older games but stick to what's closest to what they're used to, which is jarpigs.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:34:08 2019 No.6078640

>>6078623
I was actually an avid RPG-hater many years back. I never got into the RPG boom during 5th gen, for example.
But you guys acting as if RPG (and specifically Japanese ones, for some reason) are the main problem of /vr/ can get tiring after a while. You're like broken records repeating the same thing over and over
>jarpigs
>skill-based
>progress system
You sound extremely pretentious for guys who copy gameplays and abuse save states, to be quite honest.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:34:49 2019 No.6078642 >>6078629 >monkey see monkey do is not skill. t. gets destroyed in Cave games where reflexes can get you very far survival-wise

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:35:21 2019 No.6078646 >>6078638 >comparing playing music to playing video games

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:35:51 2019 No.6078647 >>6078636 >game please spoonfeed me I'm a literal retard Jarpig zoomers please go back to /v/. Who am I kidding /vr/ has just become the board for you guys to pretend to be into old games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:36:23 2019 No.6078649 >>6078642 I never really played Cave games. I don't remember seeing any cab of theirs back in the day.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:36:44 2019 No.6078650

>>6078629
It's not 16 but based Sonic autists keeping sidescroller representation up
>I find it strange that shmupfags aren't mad with FGC fags
Maybe shmupfags are though I haven't met anyone that only plays shmups and doesn't branch out into other arcade genres. In this context you're not really railing against some mythical shmupfags, you're railing against arcadefags. And they obviously won't have a problem with fighting games since they're one of the few genres that still keeps arcades afloat together with rhythm and racing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:36:49 2019 No.6078651 >>6078646 They can be compared. Anything that takes time, effort, memorization, muscle memory, execution, practice, and skill, can be compared.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:37:43 2019 No.6078654

>>6078616
Why didn't Cave outright tell you you're supposed to 1CC their shmup? Because it's common sense. Given you respawn in the same place after you die or continue, it's not like you're punished for dying otherwise outside of maybe a hit to your score, so where's the challenge? Do you really have to wonder why you're not satisfied with merely clearing a game without getting through any of its tricky sections unscathed or mastering the system to full effect?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:37:53 2019 No.6078656 >>6078647 Cave isn't even retro you retarded nigger.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:38:03 2019 No.6078657 >>6078636 What do you want, the game to have a pop up when you game over that tells you that you're shit and to go and do it again? You'd just be shitposting about the games forcing you to git gud to see the content.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:38:14 2019 No.6078659

>>6078640
Glad that you finally admitted to being a jarpig. How many more hours are you going to waste seething at shmups and their fans? Why care when it's such a tiny thing. Meanwhile jarpigs are everywhere. Every general topic in any general gaming community rapidly turns into jarpig discussion, this is specially true on /vr/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:38:55 2019 No.6078660 >>6078654 >mastering the system to full effect I don't even know what this game wants and it's not going to explain it to me. Im picking up gems okay? That's best I can do.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:39:41 2019 No.6078663

>>6078650
>It's not 16 but based Sonic autists keeping sidescroller representation up
Likewise, shmup discussion I've seen on /vg/ is mostly gossip about people on twitter or forums.
The reality is that if you want actual deep discussion you're not gonna have it on the internet that easily. Most of the times people don't really have meaningful discussion online.
For shmups, there's already many videos and guides that help you with scoring and such, no need to keep talking about DDP's scoring system for the nth time when you can just link an url or a youtube vid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:40:05 2019 No.6078667 RPGs becoming more and more popular than shmups just proves that RPGs stand the test of time while shmups were shallow time-wasters meant to sucker you out of your lunch money.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:40:15 2019 No.6078668

>>6078660
So wait you're playing Mushihimesama? That fucking game has cheevos for 1cc's and score goals for every single mode and a score attack mode that iirc does not allow continues. The only way it can make it more explicit is kicking you in the balls and calling you a faggot each time you die

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:40:38 2019 No.6078669

>>6078629
I find it strange that shmupfags aren't mad with FGC fags, since it was fighting games what actually displaced shmups as being the most popular genre at arcades in the early 90s.
Probably because fighting games are another skill-based genre. As a fightanfag myself the dynamic situations and mind games of fighting games are a lot more appealing to me than the set challenges of shmups, but I've been giving the latter a go lately.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:40:42 2019 No.6078670

>>6078654
Dude this doesn't matter, even ports that remove credits or make them unlockable make these people seethe, they just want an easy comfy jarpig adventure with a gay elf story and progression systems.
You can't win
>reeee infinite credits too easy
>reeee no continues too hard

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:42:10 2019 No.6078675

>>6078659
>Glad that you finally admitted to being a jarpig.
I just said I used to hate them, now I'm mostly indifferent and even like some of them (Shin Megami Tensei series caught my interest), but I still never played a single Final Fantasy, for example.
I have definitely played more shmups than RPGs in the course of my life.
I grew up playing arcades in the 80s/90s, and had a ColecoVision, Famiclone and Mega Drive. Galaxian was one of my first games ever.
>How many more hours are you going to waste seething at shmups and their fans?
I don't really consider you guys "shmup fans", just lost kids in desperate need of a group. You found the 2010's online shmup community and you call it your group, but to me, you're not a shmup fan.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:42:25 2019 No.6078676 >>6078656 Cave started making games in 1995 and all of their games up till 2003 are /vr/-legal. If we go by shmup terms they're not, they're the new school of shmups, one of the defining companies that marked that shift.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:42:34 2019 No.6078678 >>6078668 What's a cheevo what are you talking about

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:43:08 2019 No.6078680 Why the FUCK is /vr/ so anti-skill when it comes to gaming? Do they feel threatened that someone is better at their hobby than they are?

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:43:53 2019 No.6078681

>>6078663
Mostly sure, I don't care about that though because I could ignore the gossip entirely and just talk about the games when I was actively playing something and wanted to discuss it, as long as it was something that others played. On /vr/ the latter isn't an option outside of the few ex-/vg/ posters. The guides aren't as all encompassing as outsiders think, especially for newbies who are often concerned with the overall learning process and basic tips that the guide creators take as a given.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:44:30 2019 No.6078683 >>6078667 RPGs becoming mainstream marked the shift that turned gaming to shit eventually, their current state is pathetic unless you're a jarpig

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:44:55 2019 No.6078685

>>6078680
I don't think /vr/ is that worried about skill or anti-skill. Most of /vr/'s shitposting revolves around real hardware vs emulation, or console wars.
This skill vs anti-skill weird thing comes from /vg/ kids. The irony is that their "skill" is based on copying japanese players, most of the times not succeeding.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:46:07 2019 No.6078689 >>6078680 /vr/ will often call out kids who complain about older games being "unfair" or "artificially difficult", though.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:47:25 2019 No.6078692
File: 549 KB, 1116x1200, arcade vs jarpig.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6078669
>Probably because fighting games are another skill-based genre.
You got it, fighting game fans aren't insecure bitches around shmup fans, nor do they spam this place at all, if anything they're missing along with any skill-based topic.
Hence /jarpig/

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:48:34 2019 No.6078694 >>6078675 >I grew up playing arcades in the 80s/90s, and had a ColecoVision, Famiclone and Mega Drive. Galaxian was one of my first games ever. And now you're calling all of this shit, yeah sure m8

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:49:11 2019 No.6078697 >jarpigs vs shmonkeys

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:51:18 2019 No.6078703

>>6078694
I know it's unbelievable for someone born in the 90s or early 2000s to think that some people actually grew up during the arcade's heyday, but yeah, I swear it's true.
I'm not even 100% in disagreement with some of the things you kids say. I was always more action-oriented than turn based-oriented. As I said, I hated RPGs back then. Recently I learned to appreciate some of them, but it's still far from being among my favorite of genres.
I'm just tired of your buzzwords and your shitposting, it's why I call you out.
Most "jarpigs" are busy shitposting on their own threads to care about this anyway.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:51:21 2019 No.6078704

>>6078680
Imagine playing baby easy jarpigs all your life, while having no life outside of games. Jarpigs are your life. So being shit at the only thing you thought were decent at in your life, which is what shmups do, expose that, make these people rage. Hence why every time jarpigs get together you get a place where skill-based discussion is verbotten, a sea of shit players protecting each other so that they never have to feel bad about themselves.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:51:24 2019 No.6078705

>>6078689
Unless they're talking about arcade games in which case they act like the same zoomers they shittalked previously. Or maybe the people who call out zoomers are completely detached from the rest of /vr/ and post in Sonic, Castlevania and Megaman threads exclusively, who knows.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:52:24 2019 No.6078707 >>6078685 /vr/ is anti-skill because it never discusses skill-related topics and when it's brought up it makes regulars seethe

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:54:00 2019 No.6078715 >>6078703 You dislike the games from your supposed childhood, while positioning yourself fully with the jarpig position, very interesting indeed

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:56:07 2019 No.6078719

>>6078705
/vr/ will generally make fun of people complaining about games being hard, no matter the genre or the platform. Especially with pre-4th gen stuff.
>>6078707
I've seen how it goes:
>/vg/ kids makes a bait shmup thread
>since it doesn't get a reply in 3 minutes, same /vg/ kid starts complaining about how /vg/ is "jarpig", etc, etc
>shitposters join in
>probably more discord /vg/ kids join in with falselfag as well
You guys are the reason shmups can't be discussed on /vr/. And anyway, you didn't discuss games on /vg/ either, it was all gossip. Stop pretending you talk about video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:56:12 2019 No.6078720 >>6078707 this thread is 100% proof of this one guy is straight up mad that Mushihimesama demands him to get good enough not continue ffs he even started the whole thread. This thread is unprovoked anti-skill sentiments

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:57:24 2019 No.6078721

>>6078715
What games am I supposed to dislike? I don't understand.
I like shmups, if that's what you're talking about. I even said I have played more shmups than RPGs, since I only got into (a few) RPGs recently, while I liked shmups all my life.
Well, I'm not big on danmaku, but danmaku didn't exist back in the day.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:57:47 2019 No.6078724 File: 22 KB, 480x360, trash.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6078719 >bait shmup thread >vg >general >bait thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:58:58 2019 No.6078727 >>6076526 >It’s like fighting a fireworks display This sounds pretty awesome desu.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 19:59:44 2019 No.6078729

>>6078724
>>since it doesn't get a reply in 3 minutes, same /vg/ kid starts complaining about how /vg/ is "jarpig", etc, etc
I mean to say
>since it doesn't get a reply in 3 minutes, same /vg/ kid starts complaining about how /vr/ is "jarpig", etc, etc
I'm talking about shmups threads on /vr/, and how /vg/ kids are the ones that sabotage them by bringing up their made-up genre war immediately.
/vg/'s shmup general was just pure gossip.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:00:09 2019 No.6078731

>>6078719
>You guys are the reason shmups can't be discussed on /vr/
You are talking about Retardo, not /vg/. /vr/ shmup discussion was pretty much the same dire shit before he came here. Even back in 2015-2016 when a lot of players jumped to /vg/ people made fun of the lack of real shmup discussion on this board.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:00:20 2019 No.6078732

>>6078719
You got this way backwards, shmupg was sabotaged by seething jarpigs spamming and the few remaining regulars just went away to either Discord, IRC or here (I pity those who went to /vr/ to try to discuss shmups only to get their generals removed by jarpig mods)

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:02:00 2019 No.6078738

>>6078731
>You are talking about Retardo, not /vg/
See what I mean? I have 0 idea about who this person is. You guys keep talking about random people, not video games.
>>6078732
I'm not going to defend jrpg fans, they are awful too and shitpost a lot, but /vg/ shmups kids aren't any better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:04:28 2019 No.6078749 File: 45 KB, 131x155, Gaymers JUST.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6076526 >another episode of a jarpig trying a shmup and seething at the genre for making him see he sucks at games way more than he thought

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:05:24 2019 No.6078750

>>6078738
Arent you the KoF fag whose into fighting games and puzzles? If so then you absolutely do know who he is. Otherwise its just one (1) poster. Dont throw accusations at the entire general with 50+ posters when you only have a problem with 1 guy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:06:26 2019 No.6078753 >>6078738 shmupg regulars (the players, not the jarpigs) were like 30+ lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:07:39 2019 No.6078757 >>6078749 I hate reruns

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:09:02 2019 No.6078760 File: 22 KB, 1317x191, jarpig farm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Hilarious example: this guy straight up made an account on the shmups forum to talk about RPGs.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:11:30 2019 No.6078764

>>6078750
>Arent you the KoF fag whose into fighting games and puzzles?
No. But I remember you guys talking about some "KoF fag" too. It's like you were obsessed with personalities, instead of actually discussing games.
You're gonna tell me this retardo guy was the sole responsible posting all the gossip on /shmupg/? I just remember browsing there once time, when a shmupg link was shared on /vr/, and it was mostly people posting screenshots from forums or twiter, much like >>6078607 or >>6078523.
Maybe it was retardo, maybe the guy who posted these in this thread is retardo, I wouldn't know. All I know is that most of /shmupg/ was like that. Anyway, 1 shitposter can ruin entire threads, that's not uncommon. If that's the case, I feel sorry for the legit shmup fans, but it's still not the fault of "jarpigs", it's the fault of a shitposter.
>>6078753
I find it hard to believe people who engage in such tribalistic shitposting marathons are over 30, but you never know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:12:08 2019 No.6078767 File: 44 KB, 1212x194, Squire Jarpig.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] No comment needed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:14:14 2019 No.6078771 >>6078764 Cee/CLP (the main guy who posted the gossip stuff) is 34. But he was also good at the games. Replay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6HUzB82b4

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:15:25 2019 No.6078775 Classic example of outsider who gets a false impression due to not lurking enough and acts as if that's the whole truth.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:18:17 2019 No.6078782

>>6078764
>You're gonna tell me this retardo guy was the sole responsible posting all the gossip on /shmupg/?
No player gossip is pretty standard, I don't care about it one way or the other as I said because I have little interest in the shmup community and it doesn't stop me from talking about games. What I'm talking about the jarpig shit, it's mainly Retardo who used it and yes I'm pretty sure he made posts ITT. But blaming him or any other shitposters for the state of shmups discussion on /vr/ is disingenous because as I said, he only started posting recently but it's been like this for years and it only gets worse and worse. It went from title drops and not playing/discussing much to outright hostility in the past year or two.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:18:25 2019 No.6078783 >>6078775 Kinda like /vg/ kids on /vr/. Complaining about "jrpgs" when the main problem here is /v/-style console wars and hardware vs emu, or CRT vs LCD.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:21:18 2019 No.6078794
File: 40 KB, 383x398, cee if only.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6078783
>kids
Shut the fuck up retard. Does this guy (Cee, the most key shmupg member) look like a kid to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCrrymve56g
And the problem absolutely is people just playing and caring about RPGs or similar baby when they do talk about games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:21:39 2019 No.6078796 skill-based gaming is ableist, you shitlords. fuck off back to your containment general.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:22:21 2019 No.6078803 >>6078796 based honest jarpig

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:24:10 2019 No.6078805 >>6078794 I feel bad for this overcompensating manlet. He just can't get over his height and bald head.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:24:29 2019 No.6078807 >>6078794 same guy 14 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndIsa76M70s

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:25:32 2019 No.6078808 >>6078805 moving the goalpost AND ad hominem? I guess this is it, it's over. At least you tried mr. jarpig

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:26:24 2019 No.6078814 >>6078805 There's literally nothing wrong with shaving your head, faggot

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:27:11 2019 No.6078817 >the virgin shut in no skill neet jarpig >the chad juggler bmx rider shmupper holy shit I don't think jarpigs will ever recover from this...

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:28:30 2019 No.6078821

>>6078794
As I said, I find it hard to believe anyone over the age of 30 would engage in such childish stuff, but I guess there are exceptions.
I'll choose to believe the vast majority of other /vg/ posters are younger.
>>6078808
By the way I'm not >>6078805.
This cee guy may be insufferable when he posts (I remember his wipeout vs f-zero shitposting marathons), but those videos are cool.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:30:16 2019 No.6078826 >>6078817 Hulk Hogan is a Pokemon fan. Pretty sure John Cena was into some RPG or another, not sure. Many japanese pro-wrestlers are into RPGs, but well that's a given since you can't be japanese without liking Dragon Quest by default.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:30:18 2019 No.6078827 >>6078821 >there are exceptions Pretty much every shmupg regular player is like this, over 30. Because gasp these games appeal to older people that grew up with them. Meanwhile, /vr/ is filled with jarpig zoomers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:31:34 2019 No.6078829 File: 59 KB, 384x377, Queen of Jarpigs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6078826 >celebs like basic bitch game Doesn't make you a jarpig

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:33:23 2019 No.6078836 >>6078829 Just named people you might recognize. I used to skateboard when I was 15, and there were a lot of Final Fantasy fags around.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:34:16 2019 No.6078837 What is it with shmupfags being manlets? what do they feel they need to prove?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:34:25 2019 No.6078838 >>6078827 >these games appeal to older people that grew up with them. Not danmaku though.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:36:24 2019 No.6078849

>>6078827
>Meanwhile, /vr/ is filled with jarpig zoomers.
No joke, you very often see threads like
>I've never tried RPGs / (popular RPG entry or series), what should I know?
You seldom see this with other genres and these are threads obviously made by very young people trying older games.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:37:04 2019 No.6078851

>>6078838
Bullet hells are a very natural evolution of shmups, it's nearly impossible to not enjoy them if you're a committed shmup player. It's like saying that Megaman Zero and ZX don't appeal to people who grew up playing Megaman X because they're not exactly the same.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:38:04 2019 No.6078854 >>6078838 Most actual players like both old school and bullet hell. I know because I speak to them. The aforementioned Cee likes Guwange and at the same time Same! Same! Same!.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:38:53 2019 No.6078857 >>6078851 In my experience, that "evolution" resulted in games turning more into dodge 'em up, rather than shoot 'em up. I don't see it as an evolution, but a deviation. Not hating on danmaku though, just an observation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:40:52 2019 No.6078864 >>6078857 This is a grossly misinformed exaggeration, you have to prioritize key targets during stages just the same in bullet hells.

Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:43:38 2019 No.6078869

>>6078857
Shmups became hugely focused on dodging since the mid to late 80's. After fixed shooters stopped being a thing they started giving you greater firepower and making the shooting more about point blanking and proximity stuff rather than raw aiming. You see this in Gradius which gave you 4 options with massive firepower and missiles that travel along the ground, where most of the "aiming" was grouping up or positioning your options. Someone who grew up playing late 80's or early 90's shmups will be very used to a heavier emphasis on dodging and most likely welcome it. I think it makes sense because movement is where these games get most of their depth, for aiming you want first person shooters or light gun games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 20:47:44 2019 No.6078882 >>6078869 This, Toaplan games were very dodge-focused too

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 17 22:14:07 2019 No.6079019 File: 49 KB, 333x299, Big_Bang_Mini_Cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6076526 >it's like fighting a fireworks display not retro but I couldn't help but think of this

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 00:59:06 2019 No.6079283

>>6078851
This is it.
If you are a shmup fan you'll eventually find a danmaku you enjoy, the principles and mechanics are the same as classic shmups (except danmakus turn it up to 11!)
For a long time I avoided bullet-hells, specially Cave, I tried them but they didn't click.
Then I found Dangun Feveron, Guwange and Progear and now I rate them just as high as any classic shmup.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 01:58:17 2019 No.6079397 File: 55 KB, 512x512, proxy.duckduckgo.com.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] overrated shmups go dadshits cream their pants over this, but what is the incentive to torture yourself with it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 02:03:08 2019 No.6079404 >>6079397 ikedashit yagawashit ikaruga the holy trinity of overrated arcade stg

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 02:09:36 2019 No.6079415 >>6079404 <can't name 1 overrated shmup so he baits<<<<<

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 02:28:39 2019 No.6079446 >>6078783 >>6078821 /shmupg/ is filled with autistic neurotic trannies. It's the HRT messing with their brains and making them more prone to emotional outbursts, like women.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 02:55:45 2019 No.6079484 >>6079397 the tournament's over, you can stop whining about games you suck at but had to play now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 02:57:40 2019 No.6079486 JAP superplayers regularly play jrpgs, not just for fun, but competitively, it's hilarious how many of them speedrun old school jrpgs they grew up with. retardo you are always wrong, always!

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 03:06:37 2019 No.6079495 >>6079486 Name 5 shmup superplayers who speedrun jrpgs

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 03:40:13 2019 No.6079525 >>6079495 yuru sddkaede come to mind, they have rpg runs on their youtube channels. But I remember seeing others get excited about jrpgs on their twitters too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 03:43:01 2019 No.6079531 >>6079525 So just 2? Being excited about jrpgs =/= speedrunning them but you knew that

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 10:02:52 2019 No.6079910 >>6079486 You don't get the jarpig issue, playing both is fine, the problem's when people like jarpigs and dismiss shmups (/vr/), or like jarpigs and pretend to like shmups but never actually touch them (shmups community).

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:07:12 2019 No.6080115
File: 160 KB, 1600x1167, depositphotos_182062968-stock-photo-happy-young-man-watching-movie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>some obsessed guy starts a thread about Fire Shark
>it doesn't get instant replies
>same OP starts complaining about how /vr/ doesn't care about shmups, how /vr/ doesn't play games because they don't 1cc shmups
>due to OP displaying hilarious faggotry, some troll joins and baits him up by fueling his points
>OP and his discord friends from /shmupg/ do some doubtful math and they come up with the idea that, because /vr/ might or might not have a lot of JRPG threads (they count games like Zelda as JRPG), then that means that the people shitposting shmup threads must be JRPG fans
>start some on-going saga about a war between /shmupg/ and supposed /vr/ "JRPG fans", which they nicknamed jarpigs as a sort of antagonist who wants to ruin /vr/ by forbidding "skill-based" game discussion in favor of more room (?) for "progress-based" game discussion, as if it was some sort of ideology war.
>jannies delete thread because of the amount of bait and low-quality posting
>/shmupg/ guys start victimizing themselves, claiming jannies are on the "jarpig" side, and deleting threads because they're about shmups, and not because of the shitposting.

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:18:10 2019 No.6080138

>>6080115
The shmups community itself is filled with jarpig secondary posers. Not a conspiracy, they stream JRPGs rather than shmups (see: blossom).
The resident mods remove shmup generals, not just bait posts, and will slap 30 day bans to shmup fans, such as the OPs of said generals.
/vr/ also undeniably plays RPGs a lot while not playing shmups except for the very few posters that get banned.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:19:13 2019 No.6080146 >>6080138 this, there's a reason shmup threads had to migrate to vg some years ago, mods are biased

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:19:30 2019 No.6080148 >>6080115 >/vr/ doesn't care about shmups >/vr/ doesn't play games >they don't 1cc shmups >/vr/ has a lot of JRPG threads All true desu

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:22:36 2019 No.6080156 >>6080138 Then this seems more like a problem in the shmup community in general, not a /vr/ problem. >see: blossom who

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:26:01 2019 No.6080160

>>6080156
https://www.twitch.tv/blossom7/videos
Just an example of many. And yes, it's a deep problem within the community.
But it's also a /vr/ problem since they like the same shit, only difference is here people don't pretend to like shmups and will even voice themselves against them as seen here. So it's just sad that the Retro Games board doesn't care for one of the most classic genres.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:49:24 2019 No.6080201 >>6080146 Shmuptrannies have the emotional maturity of an angsty teenager. Your shitposting doesn't belong and anyone outside your dead fandom recognizes you should join the zoomers on /vg/ because you clearly aren't going to grow up.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 13:59:57 2019 No.6080217 >>6080201 There are very few tranny shmup fans and if anything shmupg was anti-trans so I have no idea where this is coming from

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:10:34 2019 No.6080234

>>6080160
It's just how things are, my guys.
Don't take it against /vr/ as if it was only one person. People in general like RPGs more than shmups in 2019. It's not a shmups community, or a /vr/ problem, it's just how things are in general. Many things led to what genres are more popular than others. Happens with everything.
Most likely the people insulting shmups and arcade-style players here on /vr/ are trolls. Sadly /vr/ is infested with /v/.
The fact you don't always get a 500+ replies with only video game discussion is because not every thread catches on, and most threads that have many replies is because of bait. Again, just how things work.
To me, it's like you're seeing many different problems from many different sources and reasons, most of them which escape the range of the shmup community or /vr/, and you're canalizing them through a simplified version of it all: jarpig vs shmup.
You claim there is a problem, but what kind of solution are you guys bringing? Complaining about it?
Just trying to be logical because for the most part I agree with you guys, but a lot of the times I think you're just baiting too. But because of the insistence, and the fact some of you even posted videos of yourselves, etc, I don't think you guys are trolling, so here's my genuine answer to you from a /vr/ regular.

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:22:23 2019 No.6080256

>>6080138
The fucking shmup generals were copy pastes from the failed /vg/ generals and the OP post literally consisted of lists of recent and upcoming releases with no mention at all of retro stuff. I swear you shmuptards are the stupidest motherfuckers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:27:30 2019 No.6080269 >>6077327 Normal STGs are harder than danmaku anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:27:42 2019 No.6080271 >>6076526 > no strategy Negative IQ detected

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:28:06 2019 No.6080272

>>6080234
It's a general problem, but you'd expect a Retro Games board or, I don't know, the shmups community to not be infested with jarpigs that don't like shmups... Nope.
There's no solution this is just shmup fans laughing at the whole situation.

>>6080256
Do you mean the very last few attempts? But they were legit topics that don't break any rules. OP should have been less lazy and remove all non-retro ports from the list but still. It's also happened when the OP was completely fine.
>you shmuptards
OK jarpig

>>6080269
Both styles have hard and easy games to survive.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:29:42 2019 No.6080276 >this whole thread what the shit.

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:36:03 2019 No.6080290

>>6080272
>but you'd expect a Retro Games board or, I don't know, the shmups community to not be infested with jarpigs that don't like shmups... Nope.
Maybe it's a problem that needs to be fixed within the shmups community first, then, and not /vr/.
/vr/ isn't even the only retro community on the internet, there's many.
>There's no solution this is just shmup fans laughing at the whole situation.
A lot of the times you guys seem angry, rather than amused.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:41:36 2019 No.6080301 >>6080290 We indeed need a Final Solution to the Jarpig Question >>6078523 Working on it but it ain't easy, you pretty much risk nuking the entire community, that's how big the problem with jarpig posers are. Some of them have authority even.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:48:03 2019 No.6080313 File: 372 KB, 507x505, image.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] S-S-S-STOP NOT LIKING RPGS!!

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 14:48:15 2019 No.6080314 Ban every shmuptard. Allow dadshit discussion only. These morons belong on /vg/, period.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 15:00:11 2019 No.6080324 >>6080314 What dadcore shmup are you playing?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 15:06:21 2019 No.6080329 >>6080314 I'd take danmakuck players over anti-skill jarpigs or secondary poseurs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 15:16:37 2019 No.6080341 >>6080329 >secondary poseurs. like Retardo, who still hasn't posted himself doing a psikyo 2-all?

Anonymous Wed Dec 18 15:17:13 2019 No.6080343

>>6080272
>Do you mean the very last few attempts? But they were legit topics that don't break any rules. OP should have been less lazy and remove all non-retro ports from the list but still. It's also happened when the OP was completely fine.
>NOOOOOO LET US TALK ABOUT MODERN RELEASES AND UPCOMING RELEASES ON A BOARD WHERE THE TOPIC IS OLD GAMES IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR NOOOOOOOOOO
you retards act so fucking persecuted when you're the ones that literally have an entire discord devoted to "guys there's a jrpg thread we need to shitpost it NOW NOW NOW"

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 15:21:05 2019 No.6080360 >>6080343 Talk about discord tranny behavior. Shmuptards deflect at every chance but hit all the right notes at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 15:27:01 2019 No.6080375 >>6080256 If you think the general got banned because it had a couple non-retro games in the OP and not because a butthurt mod holds a grudge against some regulars from /shmupg/, you're the retard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 18 16:23:21 2019 No.6080483 >>6080343 Most of those were ports of retro games like M2 ESPRADE

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