/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6072518]

>RPG Boss is completely immune to status ailments
>Not just instant death, any ailment.
>Not resistant, not fast-recovering, immune
>Paralyze? Immune. Poison? Immune. Sleep? Immune. Silence? Immune.
>Hilarious example, you find a Mage Masher in Bravely Default before a boss fight against a black mage. Mage Masher in Final Fantasy games inflicts Silence. GUESS WHAT HE'S FUCKING IMMUNE TO.
Fuck me for trying to use tactics, right?

[Anonymous No.6072521]

>>6072518
It's one thing I liked the bosses in SMT 1, 2 and If. Even the final bosses could be charmed(in fact it made SMT 1 quite easy with the charm bullets).

[Anonymous No.6072525]

>>6072518
get gud :^)

[Anonymous No.6072546]

>>6072521
Beat me to it but SMT gave no fucks and let you do whatever on equal terms.

[Anonymous No.6072548]

>>6072525
No, YOU git gud at game design.

[Anonymous No.6072579]

>>6072518
What is worse is when they can be affected but the first couple of times it fails so you think it doesnt work, fuck those bosses

[Anonymous No.6072591]

>>6072579
Some games are nice enough to tell you the difference between an ailment failing versus the target just being immune.

[Anonymous No.6072603]

>>6072579
That's random chance for you. In Etrian, most bosses can be affected by ailments (even instant death which is a conditional drop requirement for some bosses) but the catch is they become increasingly resistant each time they're afflicted.

[Anonymous No.6072621]

>>6072548
Stop complaining you bitch

[Anonymous No.6072627]

Evolution lets you poison all bosses, Sega does what nintendon't.

[Anonymous No.6072653]

>>6072518
>RPG

You mean JRPG

[Anonymous No.6072660]

>>6072518
Earthbound letting Jeff spy on an enemy to tell you what they're vulnerable to was kind of neat, but it still seemed better to just use damaging attacks most of the time anyway.

[Anonymous No.6072665]

>>6072653
Try and put an ailment on boss fights in Baldur's Gate 2, or KOTOR.

[Anonymous No.6072695]

>>6072518
You might like Octopath Traveler. Status effects do work on bosses -- and indeed are essential to beating them -- and that fact is countered with this armor which must first be broken, a well as later bosses simply having a fuck-ton of HP.

[Anonymous No.6072702]

>>6072695
Been looking at that but I don't have a switch and I don't touch anything with Denuvo out of principle. I do play SaGa though.

[Anonymous No.6072703]

>>6072521
SMT was pretty great about that, most bosses are pretty resistant, but not outright immune to status effects. In their later EO series, I don't even think anything but the optional super-boss is immune to instant death either, though getting anything more than a 3% chance of effect on a boss requires very specific setups. I had one of the bosses die from instant death after I dealt 80% of their life in damage to them, I was kind of upset my assassin dagger took that long to trigger.

[Anonymous No.6072706]

>>6072695
That was a pretty neat system I thought, a nice middle ground between outright immunity and being a low, random chance to apply.

[Anonymous No.6072708]

>>6072702
It's on Steam now too.

[Anonymous No.6072710]

>>6072708
Which has the aforementioned denuvo.

[Anonymous No.6072717]

>>6072710
Thank the master race for not buying games.

[Anonymous No.6072731]

>>6072717
>One of the oldest and least complicated DRM protection methods for computer and Nintendo Entertainment System games was when the game would pause and prompt the player to look up a certain page in a booklet or manual that came with the game; if the player lacked access to such material, they would not be able to continue the game.
The real reason companies hate piracy is because it lets you choose to not buy a shitty game. The only games I've bought within the last ten years or so were good indie games that I pirated first.

[Anonymous No.6072739]

>>6072731
Wait what NES games did that? StarTropics, I guess, but what else?

[Anonymous No.6072761]

>>6072525
>>6072621
This isn't a "game is too hard" post, its a "game has useless mechanics" post.

>>6072739
A decent chunk of older PC games did this, although most of them did this check upon starting the game up. Wasteland had almost all dialogue work this way, forcing the player to refer to specific paragraphs to read what a given person says.

[Anonymous No.6072772]

>>6072761
Yeah I know PC games did it all the time. But that anon's quote said NES games did it too, which is news to me.

[Anonymous No.6072774]

>>6072518
I fucking hate this. I could understand why you'd give some bosses immunity due to what they are, but when it's only the bosses that ever get some kind of immunity it just feels like they're trying to throw you a curve ball. They've trained you on how this games mechanics works, then threw them away and replaced them that with "lol just use brute force since this boss can't have any status ailments"

[Anonymous No.6072895]

>FF Series
>Poison something
>It ticks on enemies for around 3 HP every 15 seconds, meanwhile it ticks on your party for 200-400 because it keys off of a character's VIT, which monsters have 0 of

I think it took until FF10 to fix this, where poison ticks off of 1/8 max HP instead, making it incredibly strong.

[Anonymous No.6072965]

>>6072518

[Anonymous No.6072974]

I think it makes perfect sense. There are plenty of midbosses and other lesser fights where status ailments are debilitating, but if you could trivialize a boss fight with a single move that would be really disappointing. Generally these games have lots of different mechanics so I think it's good that you're encouraged to make use of several things rather than relying on status effects in every situation.

[Anonymous No.6073086]

>>6072974
I like that as games mature, some of the older games people find ways to apply status effects on various boss enemies. For example, the D. Lunars in FFIV are susceptible to having their breath reflected and turn themselves into frogs, which gets really funny because their AI doesn't update when it happens. One will keep casting spells on his buddy despite not having Wall up and wind up killing him with spells.

There's also the classic undead boss in every FF that's vulnerable to life magic, which is always fun.

>>6072965
>protestants

[Anonymous No.6073120]

>>6072518
https://youtu.be/l94FMMlVz30

[Anonymous No.6073282]

>>6072895
It did, and many FFX bosses could be poisoned.

[Anonymous No.6073283]

>>6072965
>>6073120
Both of you fuck off!

[Anonymous No.6073285]

is there any good game where status effects are well-balanced? seems like in most games they're either useless filler or broken

[Anonymous No.6073294]

>>6073285
Dungeon crawlers tend to be good about it, so Etrian Odyssey, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Elminage, and Shin Megami Tensei.

[Anonymous No.6073328]

>>6072665
>Baldur's Gate 2
Feeblemind is a broken CC spell that effectively replaces AI scripts to turn a lot of bosses (including Firkraag) into complete pushovers. Surprising amount of bosses isn't immune to effects you'd think they'd be immune to.
>>6072761
>"game has useless mechanics"
I mean, CC spells are still really useful for some really volatile random encounters on the world map or in dungeons in most jRPGs, sometimes those are more dangerous than proper boss fights.

[Anonymous No.6073409]

>>6072518
Yeah, it's kind of stupid because it makes status effect spells useless.

They're too strong to waste on regular enemies, but you can't use them on bosses.

Indie dev Zeboyd Games recently created a solution to these problems in their game Cosmic Star Heroine - no enemy is immune to status effects. However, every enemy has a hidden "Status Resistance" bar. Every time enemy gets hit with attack that inflicts a status, the bar lowers. Once the bar depletes, then finally a status goes through, and is inflicted.

So you use status moves to whittle down enemy's resistance to status moves.
This way, status moves are useful against bosses, but you also can't poison the boss in one move.

It's a shame that it took developers of jRPGs 30 years to come up with this solution.

[Anonymous No.6073427]

>>6073409
That's exactly how it's done in Monster Hunter and Dark Souls.

[Anonymous No.6073435]

>>6073409
Zemboyd Games devs are based, not perfect, but some of the choices to the genre and random dialogue in CSH and Cthulhu Saves the World is blessed.

I hope Cthulhu Saves Christmas also does this.

[Anonymous No.6073752]

>>6072710
OT on steam no longer has Denuvo

[Anonymous No.6073781]

>>6073285
>>6073294
They are pretty useful in roguelikes and SRPGs too.

[Anonymous No.6073796]

>>6073752
I'll wait until the next sale, I'm not paying full price for a year-old game.

[Anonymous No.6073801]

>>6072525
Obvious bait post.

[Anonymous No.6073834]

>>6072665
Bosses play by the rules, they just have godly saving throws. You have to lower their resistances and saving throws with magic if you want to affect them.

As for OT discussion, I recommend playing it, but it is NOT an oldschool game, despite how it looks. And the amazing combat system is offset by godawful pacing.

[Anonymous No.6073837]

>>6073294
>>6073781
Basically they're fine in everything except jRPGs where bosses have a trillion hit points

[Anonymous No.6073859]

>>6072731
things that never happened the post

[Anonymous No.6073885]

>>6073859
The first happened. I was there, zoomer.
The second is not implausible.

[Anonymous No.6073897]

>>6073885
Less than one percent of piratefags actually buy games after they deem them to be good.

[Anonymous No.6073925]

>>6073897
Sick totally real statistic not laced in bias, bro.

[Anonymous No.6073926]

>>6072518
Please don't depict our Lord and savior making obscene gestures

[Anonymous No.6073943]

>>6073897
when did he say that lmao you're a fucking retard
how the fuck do you read this:
>The only games I've bought within the last ten years or so were good indie games that I pirated first.
and come to the conclusion that you did lol
are you drunk? heavy medication? heroin addict? why are you so fucking stupid lol

[Anonymous No.6073945]

>>6073926
Your Lord once flipped tables and chased a bunch of people out a temple armed with a whip, he's not above giving someone the finger.

[Anonymous No.6073947]

>>6073926
He's probably flipping off a fig tree.

[Anonymous No.6074024]

>>6072739
>>6072772
From TVtropes, it looks like the Metal Gear port did. Too lazy to click around on other titles to check but that'd be where to look it up

[Anonymous No.6075025]

>>6073427
>That's exactly how it's done in Monster Hunter and Dark Souls.

Was abouy to say this. But then again, Dark Souls solves so many problems with RPGs it kind of goes without saying.

[Anonymous No.6075063]

>almost all enemies are immune to almost all status effects
>all status effects hit your party 100% of the time

[Anonymous No.6075068]

>>6075063
>status effects only land on trash enemies
>but trash enemies are so weak you're better off just using that turn and MP to cast a damage spell

Very few retro RPGs ever really figured out what they wanted to do with negative status effects

[Anonymous No.6075109]

>>6072521
Yeah, I love just stunlocking the boss permanently so they can't do anything.

[Anonymous No.6075118]

RPGs are just so full of awful conventions that it's a miracle if anything that doesn't suck comes out.

I would suck dick for an actual 'Dark Souls' of turn based JRPGs that fucks over all of those lame holdovers.

[Anonymous No.6075131]

>>6072518
>It's a boss in a game
>Newfag surprised it is immune to cheap tricks
This is what you've got for investing in gimmicks instead of raw damage.

[Anonymous No.6075142]

>>6075118
>I would suck dick for an actual 'Dark Souls' of turn based JRPGs that fucks over all of those lame holdovers.
Romancing SaGa 2 is notorious for its difficulty and demand of proper tactics.

[Anonymous No.6075145]

>>6075131
"We're at the boss, throw out everything you've learned and just spam your most damaging spells because we can't balance an encounter around the tools we actually gave you".

[Anonymous No.6075153]

>>6075118
Try 7th Saga.

[Anonymous No.6075168]

>>6075153
7th Saga is only hard because the difficulty was fucked in the western release to the point you can render it unwinnable.

[Anonymous No.6075203]

>>6075145
Don't respond to bait.

[Anonymous No.6075857]

>>6072518
not all RPG bosses are immune to status changes,it depends on the game and the boss,alot are though

[Anonymous No.6075926]

>enemy is susceptible to exactly one status ailment
>no indication as to which one that is
>no scan ability or the like
>easier to just brute force the fight with damage instead of wasting rounds casting spells and hoping you get lucky

literally just a way to sell strategy guides

[Anonymous No.6075987]

In FF1, Chaos is vulnerable to FEAR. If you can land it a few times, he'll fail his morale check and run away.
You can spook THE FINAL BOSS and make him flee.

[Anonymous No.6076094]

>>6075118
Literally Wizardry

[Anonymous No.6076127]

>>6075987
Final boss in FF2 can be frogged.

[Anonymous No.6076134]

>>6075987
No he isn't, you fucking moron. He's resistant to all elements, which gives 253/256 chance to resist status effects, including fear. You'll need to land multiple 3/256 chance hits to lower his morale enough to have a chance of him running away, which is virtually impossible given the limit of 9 spell charges per character. Let me guess, you watched a TAS and assumed it was remotely viable in real time despite knowing nothing about the game mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6076137]

>>6076127
I'll admit I totally cheesed Toad in 2 and 3, very few enemies were immune.

[Anonymous No.6076440]

yeah i fucking hate that shit. what usually ends up happening is having to spam defense and speed buffs on your party.