/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6070596]

Does anybody else enjoy Saturn DOOM? Sure it's slow and choppy, but there's something oddly satisfying about the faster fire rates. It seems a bit too dark, though.

[Anonymous No.6070764]

>>6070596
Wasn't it so fucked up because idiots who ported it put like ten thousand polygons on every wall? Instead of doing the logical thing and making one wall = one face? Sure, it would fuck up texture offset (since Saturn can't offset textures by itself) but the game would be PLAYABLE.

Or was this 3DO I'm thinking about?

[Anonymous No.6070805]

>>6070764
You are mostly correct, but I believe it was John Carmack himself who forced them to do the former instead of the latter.

[Anonymous No.6070829]

>>6070596
Look man I love the Saturn and think a lot of people highly exaggerate how bad most of its ports are however this one is genuinely worthless. It's literally a shittier version of the PS1 port at least the 3DO one had some cool arrangements for the soundtrack to justify it.

[Anonymous No.6070865]

>>6070764
Original coder had it running at 60fps using the Saturn gpu to draw the walls, but Carmack wanted it to use the original rendering to avoid perspective correction issues (nevermind the fact that the Saturns quad based rendered being very well suited for the type of walls that Doom has). So they had to port the original engine into Saturn, using the two SH2s to do software drawing while the VDP2 was doing the UI and your gun arm. It's why the game can slow down but you can shoot at the same speed as if it was running normal, resulting in some funny situations.

[Anonymous No.6070867]

>>6070829
The 3DO one isn't even playable, the music is all it has, the fact that you can just get the soundtrack online with the snap of a finger means the 3DO port itself has no reason any longer.

[Anonymous No.6070873]

>>6070867
The Saturn port is close to unplayable too and everything it does offer is in the original PS1 port it's based off which plays and looks better too. The 3DO port despite being utter garbage still offered something of value with its soundtrack regardless if you can look it up these online these days.

[Anonymous No.6070921]

>>6070596
I played it recently along with a load of other saturn games and actually found myself playing doom the most. The framerate is atrocious but the game is strangely addictive. I like the simple controls of these old shooters no y axis to worry about. I grew up on disruptor for the ps1 and that game still holds up quite well.

[Anonymous No.6070942]

>>6070921
>The framerate is atrocious but the game is strangely addictive
That's just the inherent quality of Doom, even the "crude" SNES port is fun, and the GBA ports, for all their drawbacks, still entertain.

You'd think all these modern sourceports and mods would spoil me, but God, I found my old dusty GBA cartridges a while back, thought "Gee, I should check if they still work." and then it was 3 hours later.

[Anonymous No.6071378]

>>6070805
>>6070764
>>6070865
Carmack told them that textures look really fucked (iirc floors were especially so) and that they have to make the textures unfucked. They couldnt figure out any elegant solution so they ported the code completely.

[Anonymous No.6072779]

>>6071378
Asked about it later, he said something like how "This was probably a bit of a mistake, I should have given them more time to experiment."

It had great framerate, but Carmack didn't tolerate all that texture warping and distortion.

[Anonymous No.6072830]

>>6072779
I saw the guy who programmed the Saturn port talking about it in YouTube comments somewhere. Would be neat if he saved any builds prior to the rejiggering.

[Anonymous No.6072835]

>>6070942
GBA Doom is so good. It runs on the doom engine, and is literally the most comfy version of Doom ever.

[Anonymous No.6072969]

>>6072835
It's definitely very playable, but there's caveats.

Doom:
>green blood and some censorship, this is Germany's fault
>does run on the original engine, somewhat slow, if you want good speed you'll have to turn off the shading and make everything in fullbright, which kinda sucks
>no Cyberdemon
>no Spider Mastermind
>E3M8 is replaced with E2M9, which is arguably the worst level in the game
>levels are trimmed here and there, *far* less texture variety, no secret level for E2 as it's used as the final level, no E3M9
>the music is pretty good, though assignment is shifted so each level will have the music track that's supposed to go on the previous level, E1M1 has E1M2's music, and so on

Doom 2:
>also green blood and some censorship, this is still Germany's fault
>runs on a custom engine for the GBA, you can't turn off the shading, but it overall runs much better than the Doom 1 port
>weapon behavior has some alteration, Shotgun doesn't have the original horizontal line spread anymore, rather a round one, the Chaingun lets you tap for single bullets (which is pretty useful actually), Super Shotgun reloads faster
>no enemies are missing, even Arch-Vile is here
>Spider Mastermind and Chaingunner uses Pistol sound effect instead of Shotgun sound effect
>no maps are missing, minimal trimming, Industrial Zone and The Chasm would have been to big to run on their own, thus each has been divided into a pair of levels as two-parters (so it's actually 34 levels)
>somewhat less texture variety
>enemy AI is nearsighted and will forget/ignore your existence if you get far enough away, this is too easy to exploit
>music is also pretty good

The first is decent, the second I would say is better than some 90s console ports, just for having so much content intact. By the early 2000s you had many good options for playing Doom on PC and it wasn't as expensive anymore, but the GBA let you fit Doom in your pocket, which wasn't something you could really get elsewhere at the time.

[Anonymous No.6072991]

>>6072969
Dont forget the issue Doom 2 Gba has where it thinks armor is supposed to wear off after each level but doesnt reduce the percentage you have, its a real bitch later on especially

Source: Have beaten Doom 2 on Gba, fuck that bug

[Anonymous No.6072996]

Saturn Doom is just a crappy port of PSX Doom.

Play PSX Doom instead. Better, play the original PC version.

[Anonymous No.6073146]

Atari Jaguar Doom is where it is at. Carmack loved that conversion. He even posted about it on Atari Age.

Used to have a serial cable and play deathmatch on that. All the SNES fags were Doom jelly. But my 486DX2 66 ran it so much better , but 9600 baud could lag bad.

[Anonymous No.6073289]

>>6070596
We will never see what Jim Bagley's version would be like, it's still a sour point with him

[Anonymous No.6073584]

>>6072969

Doom 2 GBA is a tough call. It’s far more features complete, however the custom engine breaks the momentum and speed of Doom, which is actually mostly preserved in Doom GBA. On first appearances Doom 2 GBA seems to be the better game, but it’s much slower and less enjoyable to play.

[Anonymous No.6073675]

japanese version is better

[Anonymous No.6073693]

It ran better on my ipod video from 2005

[Anonymous No.6074098]

>>6073675
Myth.

[Anonymous No.6075923]

>>6072835
how the fuck was gba doom 1 so decent?

[Anonymous No.6077367]

>>6070764
>since Saturn can't offset textures by itself

Why couldn't it offset textures by itself? Could PSX or N64 offset textures by themselves? Actual question, not trying to bait.

[Anonymous No.6077372]

>>6072991
>Have beaten Doom 2 on Gba

Recently, or when you were like 10? If the former, why?

[Anonymous No.6077419]

Doom port ranking

*****
PS1
old PSN/XBLA

****
Xbox
BFG edition
Unity ports

***
Jaguar
32X
GBA

**
SNES

*
3DO
Saturn

[Anonymous No.6077425]

>>6077419
Just to check, you're confirming the DOS vers was the best vers?

[Anonymous No.6077434]

>>6077425
DOS isn't a port, it's the original. But by itself it isn't much better than the better console ports of Doom. You better be using some sourceports.

[Anonymous No.6077438]

>>6077434
You can play usermaps on DOS.
Best version would probably be PrBoom+

[Anonymous No.6077440]

>>6073675
PAL version played on NTSC console is the best

[Anonymous No.6077457]

>>6077434
That's what I meant, friend. Comparing the original and the ports, what's the ultimate version in your opinion?

[Anonymous No.6077461]

>>6077457
In Euroland the Jaguar costs 150buckorinos now

[Anonymous No.6077463]

>>6070596
damn, I played this turd in 1997 or something, I really didn't remember it being bad or anything, since everyone had Doom on PC no one cared about the SAtu

[Anonymous No.6077509]

>>6077457
>Comparing the original and the ports, what's the ultimate version in your opinion?
GZDoom of course. But if only official releases count, the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions are kings. 100% faithful to the original, no weird bugs or censorship, and do away with some DOS era limitations. Unfortunately, they have been removed from the store.

[Anonymous No.6077524]

>>6077509
Ah, I'm sure somebody ripped them for superior beings on CFW to play

[Anonymous No.6077548]

>>6077434
DOS Doom is a port of NeXTSTEP Doom... somewhat.

[Anonymous No.6077640]

>>6077419
Putting 32x in the same league as GBA and Jaguar

[Anonymous No.6077680]

>>6077461
as it should

[Anonymous No.6077696]

>>6077372
The latter

[Anonymous No.6077771]

>>6077548
Doom source code github repo literally has 386 asm code in it for DOS specific drawing routine. The original doom source code compiled under borland c++

[Anonymous No.6079506]

>>6077771
Doom source on GIT comes from the Linux port btw. And ASM code doesn't say shit if it's a port or not.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/NEXTSTEP

[Anonymous No.6079528]

>>6077548
Developing a game on a work station doesn't really make it a port when you then release it for PCs.
That'd be like saying any given old console game is actually ported from whatever work station(s) it was developed on.

[Anonymous No.6079540]

>>6079528
Hence

>somewhat

[Anonymous No.6081213]

>>6077367
yes, the ps1 and n64 could

[Anonymous No.6081219]

>>6077419
>snes doom better than saturn

[Anonymous No.6081549]

>>6081219
Yes.

[Anonymous No.6081794]

>>6077548
>>6079506
>>6079540
Shut up nerd you're wrong

[Anonymous No.6081880]

>>6079506
>And ASM code doesn't say shit if it's a port or not.
The nextcube romero was developping on was running on a motorolla 68k cpu. If there's 386 asm in the source repo this means the target build has always been DOS from day 1

[Anonymous No.6082093]

>>6077548
NEXT was never relevant so we can safely treat it like it doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.6082124]

>>6077419
What was wrong with the first Xbox port? Wasn't it the first full speed Doom console port? It seems like a straight upgrade over the PS1 version

[Anonymous No.6082496]

>>6082093
That Doom was made on it I think justifies its existence.

[Anonymous No.6082610]

>>6077509
>>6082124

The 360 ports have slower music, some sound samples are messed up and have a few visual changes (pill logos on med/stimpacks). But other than that they were pretty decent. I can't comment on the PS3 versions.

>>6077509
GZDoom is definitely the most visually satisfying sourceport but I prefer Crispy Doom or PrBoom+ for the more authentic gameplay.

[Anonymous No.6082617]

Console port comparisons:

http://www.classicdoom.com/doomcomp.htm

[Anonymous No.6082619]

>>6082610
The PS3 version was like that too. If by messed up sound samples you may mean there's randomized sound pitches, which was an original feature of Doom, though it broke in an early version and was never fixed, so most people never played with it, many don't know it exists.

[Anonymous No.6082636]

>>6082619
>All sounds are played as if their sample rate was 11025 Hz, making the few 22050 Hz sounds (such as DSDBLOAD) slowed down.

This mostly affects the Doom II port afaik

As someone mentioned the 360 ports being removed from the store, they are still available as extras on the Doom 3 BFG Edition disc edition which is also backwards compatible on Xbone.

[Anonymous No.6083880]

>>6077440
Why?