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/vr/ - Retro Games

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6003396 No.6003396 [Reply] [Original]

FM List

>> No.6003397
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>> No.6003402
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>> No.6003429

Shit game.

>> No.6003443
File: 464 KB, 640x406, 1568473611851.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Should I continue Rocksbourg: Ink and Dust? Made it all the way to the room with a key under a severed head but the lack of a map is a major pain in the ass with how big the level is.

>> No.6003458
File: 19 KB, 359x132, Thief_series_logo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Yea, do it for the finishing clout and so you can check it off as 'complete' in the FM selector of your choice.

>> No.6003492


>> No.6003728

You are working on your fm, right anon? You're not slacking off again are you?

>> No.6003736 [DELETED] 

t. mgsbabby

>> No.6003740

Started Sound of a Burrick in the Room and the cityscape is awesome.

>> No.6003786

My current mission is at 4k cells.

>> No.6003926
File: 97 KB, 909x450, by the builder.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.6004081

The Trickster's magic is ensnaring me, brother.

>> No.6004105

Do you voice act for FMs? Because you should.

>> No.6004587

Thoughts on TGTool?

>> No.6004695

thief sucks

>> No.6004704

you're a talented voice actor

>> No.6004707
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>> No.6004709
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>> No.6004712
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>> No.6004734

Is it possible to fall at a height high enough to where you will die hitting the ground in water?

>> No.6004782

I didn't make those. That anon hasn't come around in a while.

>> No.6005051

something about that hammerite ambient makes me laugh every fucking time i hear it

>> No.6005146

I wish that anon was around to provide the dialogue without the hammerite ambience so I could create a Daniel Thron after effects style cutscene with custom ambient

>> No.6005656

Recommended audio settings for Thief? Currently using OpenAL with EAX off.

>> No.6005846

Original eax sounded great in Thief, I still use it.
Just enhances the already good sound design.

>> No.6006394

I always found EAX to sound absolutely dreadful in Thief.

>> No.6006498
File: 2.37 MB, 1920x1080, dump015.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Just finished Sound of a Burrick in a Room. Amazing city mission.

>> No.6007091

The very beginning of Precious Cargo has a chasm meant to restrict the player by using precisely that. They wanted to put water in the bottom to show that Garrett arrived by rowboat, they wanted the player to see that the scenery continues onward and there isn't just a wall where he came from but they couldn't let the player go there to look at the bounds of the level. So the water is low enough and the fall is high enough to kill the player if they try to go there.

>> No.6007473
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>> No.6007479
File: 355 KB, 544x1000, thief05.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.6007554

I am no audiophile but I like it? Whats the problem?

Its cool to hear guards footsteps down the street with some echo on it.

>> No.6007595

Is Thief kino?

>> No.6007647 [DELETED] 

No. Looking Glass developers said multiple times that they went to extreme lengths to tell most of the story via interactive gameplay and only ever used cutscenes (cinematic elements) when they couldn't get things across ingame. When you call an immersive sim "kino" you're literally calling it a bad immersive sim because you're implying that there are epic setpieces where something meticulously directed happens the same way every time. Only shitty movie games are kino. And Half-Life.

>> No.6007753

All the sounds are muffled like hell.

>> No.6007754

Really? Does not look like it on my end.

>> No.6007759

I vastly prefer the crispier sound heard when EAX is turned off.

>> No.6007783

except hl is good unlike thief.

>> No.6007802


>> No.6007803 [DELETED] 

Thief is a masterpiece. And will continue to be so while HL is forgotten.

>> No.6007813

other way around. No one cares about thief.
Meanwhile people remember every other major 1998 game.

>> No.6007821

Is the black parade ever coming out?

Fuck I wish somebody would jazz up the original missions one day with stupid levels of detail just to play them again with a remix feel.

>> No.6007825

wrong but I don't even know what are you trying to accomplish with this bait

>> No.6007835 [DELETED] 

you know i'm right.

>> No.6007864

It's being led by Yandros and a bunch of competent mapmakers with skacky checking up on it.

>> No.6007867

>We have assembled a team of highly talented builders and architects who will be doing most of the work to make sure it's at least halfway decent. I basically just proofread Random_Taffer's story and made the website, and am now going to sit back and drink coffee for the next few years until I can take credit for the project (but only if it gets good reviews).

>> No.6007882

Its taking too fucking long.

Btw is DMod worth trying?

>> No.6007894

Yes, just keep in mind it's all FMs so you gotta find a good one.

>> No.6007957

Yandros is not part of the Black Parade team.

>> No.6007961

One thing I have always wondered I never used dromed. I should try one day.

Does the Garret model have any animations ingame? Like third person?

I know it has a model because of the eye in 2.

>> No.6007975

tell that to him

>> No.6008007

These aren't the same projects.

>> No.6008042
File: 3.12 MB, 1882x1176, craigscleft factory.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.6008054

where'd you find this?

>> No.6008112


>> No.6008125
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>> No.6008129
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>> No.6008138
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>> No.6008139

Shit he does have. And its as janky as I expected. Here goes my graceful first person mental image of Garret out of the window.

Dude in ss2 is probably the same.

>> No.6008140
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Yes, so you can get buttraped in the Dark Zone.
>in the maze looking for the objective
> can't see shit
> hear noises coming from different directions
> decide to light up the lantern to get my bearings
> mfw one of those hunchback fuckers comes storming at me at 300mph from the end of the hall

>> No.6008167
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>> No.6008169
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>> No.6008173
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>> No.6008208
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>> No.6008232

Pleb drawing. At least the cutscenes in Thi3f didn't have the dumb eye scar.

>> No.6008247
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ok taffer

>> No.6008250
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>> No.6008257

New FM you dicklords: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150204

>> No.6008264
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at least post the pics

>> No.6008265

On a scale of 0 to 10 how fucking annoying dromed is?

Just wish it was like trenchbroom

>> No.6008271
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>> No.6008279

Its interface is archaic and you have no vertex editing nor any sort of clipping tool, but it's also a really powerful editor that allows you to edit pretty much every aspect of the game without you having to juggle between several different programs to achieve the same result.

>> No.6008281
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Gonna go for it Thief kinda captivated me, never got to play it. And already finished 1 and 2 two times. Deadly Shadows is okay as well,but kinda wish it was made on the style of the first two.

>> No.6008308

Good luck mate. Don't be afraid to ask questions here, a few taffers who know DromEd lurk around here.

>> No.6008643

>city mission

>> No.6008658

Nicked's guide is a great one for showing the basics of wtf to do. Obviously he only makes a simple street + tower in the tutorial, but it covers all the basics.

I believe in you, anon-sama! Don't be afraid to ask here for help faggot

>> No.6008690

t. thinks ink and dust is good

>> No.6008792

Dude tall buildings lmao

>> No.6008910
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Thoughts on Yandros missions?

>> No.6009208
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>> No.6009427

Jesus fuck this editor is fucking painful.

>> No.6009745

im making a dnd map inspired by these games for my friends to play through as a one off

>> No.6009864
File: 23 KB, 639x361, ad68a58a4dcc05edbe97edc0370cc4865ba09327cf47a68e47d214c6e4f4a1d4_product_card_v2_mobile_slider_639.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What control scheme should I use for Thief Gold? When I click "LOAD" it gives me these options:

Thief Default Bindings
Unreal Bindings
Quake Bindings
WASD Bindings
Thief Classic Bindings
TFix default

Which most resembles Thief 2?

(I'm using the GOG version, incase that matters.)

>> No.6009868

I already answered you in the doom thread.

>> No.6009939

copy your user.bnd from thief 2 and out it jn thief gold
no need to thank me

>> No.6009987

Anything in particular giving you trouble?

>> No.6009998

Not really. Just the layout. And how slow it is to make more complex stuff. I am making a big house first to see how it works, make some doors, interactions. etc

>> No.6010004

>greetings manfool, would you like to hold me down to the floor and shed your pollen inside of me? i am ready to disperse seeds right now
>no way fag

>> No.6010013

Do you guys think Viktoria pussy in human form smells of weed?

>> No.6010251

it smells like freshly mowed grass or pine needles

>> No.6010363

No one ever answered which one most resembles Thief 2.

>> No.6010414

Hi yandros

>> No.6010418

Dromed LOOKS fucking amazing. It makes you look like a genius who uses retro hacking tools.

>> No.6010434

Hit and miss, but he got better as time went on. At least he's not like that retard cardia who's released something like 15 missions and still shits out utter trash

>> No.6010451
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Underrated FMs?

>> No.6010937

Freshly mowed grass when it's just shaved. Patch of moss after rain when it's not.

>> No.6011546

Thoughts on Lady Rowena FMs?

>> No.6011583

Thief 1 is fun but the spiders are the scariest fucking spiders I've ever seen in a game. The low polycount makes them even scarier honestly.

>> No.6011605

They are pretty horrible in SS2 as well. I never had trouble with them but I dont deny the sound kinda weirded me out.

I still remember the first time i heard one in the mines.

>> No.6011651

I actually got through SS2 without getting spooked that much. I guess it helps when you got a gun and not a pussy bow.

>> No.6011656

Once you get the hang of Garret, dont even hammer haunts get me. But then again Ive played Thief like 500 times so.

>> No.6011932

Are there any fan maps that retouch the original vanilla maps, not with shitty hi res textures but improve some aspects?

>> No.6011964

I don't think there are any outright remakes of the original maps. There are some that build on top of them (e.g. Lorgan's Web/Assassins or Downtowne Funk/Thieves' Guild) but those end up being largely different.

>> No.6012014

Retouching vanilla maps reminds me of another thing... The third mission of Calendra's Legacy takes place on the street that Garrett walks in the snowy epilogue of TDP

>> No.6012525
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>> No.6012629

Dark Messiah
The Unsung Villain
Hidden Agenda
Third Time's The Charm
The Night Shift
Just For Show
Out for a Revenge
The Focus
So Long Hammers
The Curse
By Order of an Unknown
Amoral Dilemma
Forbidden Rites
Ashes & Dust
Wicked Relics
A Theft In Hightowne
The Blue Star
Lingering Whispers
The Curse of the Skull Goblet

>> No.6012782
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>> No.6013203
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Anyone try the new TG mission? It's pretty good, worth trying out at least

>> No.6013218

Saturio Returns Home
Rowena's Curse
Whitman's Disease

>> No.6013401

Rowena's Curse is the polar opposite of underrated.

>> No.6013438

I skip all city missions on general principle

>> No.6013568

what's it like being gay/retarded anon

>> No.6013671

well I get to have my prostate massaged while I play actually good missions so pretty nice overall

>> No.6013687
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>> No.6013776
File: 99 KB, 780x488, k.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Jesus fuck most of these Thief fan missions are so fucking detailed, the engine really holds up except for character models. Thats why I was asking if somebody retouched vanilla missions, canon missions are really good but you can tell they were made on the late 90s, with time limits and with pc limitations before the engine upgrade.

Absolutely amazing.

Are there any HD packs worth it? Asking as a newb I am in love with this game series.

>> No.6013789

Jesus H. Christ this looks fucking hideous.

>> No.6013790

Some hd packs are hideous, are there any decent ones? I guess tfix already adn taffer patcher already spices shit a little bit.

>> No.6013801

>Some hd packs are hideous, are there any decent ones?

>> No.6013802

Oh well. Would you recommend using no texture filtering?

>> No.6013809

that's precisely how I picture every city mission loving fag to be like
>dude tall building lmao
>11/10 best mission ever skacky please fuck me in the ass

>> No.6013813

Depends whether you like the look or not. I personally can't stand texture filtering so the ability to turn it off was a godsend.

>> No.6013816

The game does look crisper in 1 and 2 especially 2 higher res textures. Now I get it why this game seems to hit on every cylinders with so many gamers, its fucking great. It does have some problems but fuck its a late 90s game.

>> No.6013820

Next you're gonna tell me you hate Life of the Party because you're a retarded contrarian.

>> No.6013870

Don't be ridiculous. Retarded contrarians hate all of Thief 2.

>> No.6013973

Thief 2 looks worse with texture filtering disabled. It's a game made in 2000, not 1994 you hipsters.

>> No.6013979

I like city missions and think Life of the Party is seriously overrated. Most of the mission is spent in Angelwatch which sucks.

Rocksbourg 1 and 2 are both city missions and are nothing like what you describe. That's more of a modern city mission thing.

>> No.6014018

It's bank mission dummy.

>> No.6014070

not the anon your replying to but the city missions are consistantly some of the worst missions in the first two games. Trace the Courier is alright though.

>> No.6014083

What missions do you like, just curious. I hate the circle jerk for city missions as well. They're just loot simulators and nothing special after about the 3rd one.

>> No.6014105

Nigga Trace the Courier is the worst
>flat, boring layout
>recycled from Ambush
>scripted linear progression
>basically a rehash of Assassins except drawn out, no longer novel, and without a cool mansion at the end

>> No.6014161

The recycled content and the linearity are bad, but I think it's dishonest to criticize the layout as being flat and boring when in the same post you mention the half-empty symmetrical Ramirez mansion as a positive aspect. I'm not disputing the claim that Courier is the worst T2 mission though.

>> No.6014306


There's a new 'HD" pack that is simply upscaled original textures and is p. good

Try the ESRGAN Texture pack



>> No.6014309

see >>6014306

>> No.6014395

The amount of effort put into Thief FMs has always impressed me. Most other old games with active mod communities get a lot of lazy shit and the occasional well made mod, but Thief fans seem to go all out with that shit. The number of them that have original voice acting and even cutscenes is nuts.

>> No.6014440

The Thief community continues to be extremely impressive and novel despite not being an open-source game.

Must have a lot to do with having the dev tools at launch and the culture of teaching/learning.

Plus most FMs are self-contained oneoffs so there's the allure of being master of your own domain

>> No.6014454

Interesting thanks, but after trying them, I think tfix options with Thief 2 textures applied spaersely here and there look better, they kinda help Thief 1 lower res ones without breaking the style.

He went a bit too hard and dark on some of those but at least its trying to preserve the original look I guess.

>> No.6014825

Thief 2's textures are almost all the same res as the originals. A lot of them are exactly the same as the originals except desaturated (which made sense in 2 because there's colored lighting to compensate, but there's none in 1 so it makes areas look uncharacteristically drab). I don't recommend it.

>> No.6015191

thats fair trace the courier just frusterated me the least out of the city missions. I probably should replay assassins though now that i am more used to the games.

>> No.6015241

I am not using all of them. Just the lite option in tfix

>> No.6016321 [SPOILER] 
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>> No.6016578
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>> No.6017038

Thief 1 vs 2: Which is better and why?

>> No.6017136
File: 208 KB, 1920x1080, T1 and T2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

-Thief 1 has better atmosphere
-Thief 1 has better enemy variety
-Thief 1 has better story

-Thief 2 has better stealth
-Thief 2 has better level design
-Thief 2 has more mechanics

>> No.6017191

just installed tfix, are there any hd texture packs worth installing or is vanilla the chad way?

>> No.6017228

I wouldn't say vanilla is the chad way but I know that the high-resolution textures are terrible because they aren't just high-res rescreated original textures. They're completely different ones and ruin the visuals of all ingame areas.

>> No.6017231

Thief 1 is better and has more challenging stealth. Thief 2 has better graphics and a few standout missions.

>> No.6017348

Vanilla. Like with most games, high res textures are just high res for the sake of it and you often lose any sense of a cohesive art style.

>> No.6017352

I think level design is pretty close for me, but yeah sure.

Just because Thief 1 does some variety and some really well de masterful designed shit like cragscleft and the sword. Although stuff like undercover is jank, its not like the masks.

Thief 2 problems maybe was rushing it.

>> No.6017358

The options in tfix for sky and minor stuff is okay.
That said I prefer vanilla for both.

However I think necroage did a really good job reimagining the game unlike other HD packs. Not stupidly high res and tries to have some color consistency, I enjoy how Thief 1 and 2 look with it.

>> No.6017390

Is it just my stupidity, or is it really hard to find loot in Haunted Cathedral?

>> No.6017392

It's probably the most challenging mission in Thief to reach the loot limit on expert. It's still nowhere near as bad as Thief 3 Expert loot requirements.

>> No.6017393

i like theif 2 better overall, but I do wish ir was as hard as theif 1. You can be much louder in theif 2 and the gaurds wont notice. Hardly any need for moss arrows.

>> No.6017404

The thing is, even on normal difficulty, I struggled to meet the loot requirement. Does the difficulty selection also modify the amount of loot?

>> No.6017406


>> No.6017408

what i should say is, the difficulty setting modifies the amount of loot required, not the amount of loot on a map

>> No.6017409

Its not that bad. You have to fine comb the level. Here is the real deal breaker.

Do you bother with stealthing undead? I never did, I avoid some but kill undead pretty liberally, and makes the undead levels better to navigate and explore.

>> No.6017414

Well, then I guess I'm just that bad at the game.

I did at first, but soon gave up and smashed them with the sword.

>> No.6017416

there's vases up on the rooftops you probably missed

>> No.6017417

As you should, Haunts is another story but even then if you have flashbombs you can fuck them up.

>> No.6017445

those levels have cool atmosohere and everything but part of the reason i dont like them is the loot requirements.

>> No.6017449

what's that mod where you play as a slut

>> No.6017450

a dance with rogues

>> No.6017469

FTM Life

>> No.6017473

Shadows of the Metal age. What a garbage protag.

>> No.6017475

I have that, it's for NWN though. I'm talking about a Thief mod.
That's the one. Is it any good?

>> No.6017478

>Is it any good?

Meh its okay. Nice level design at places.

>> No.6017514

>-Thief 2 has better stealth
>-Thief 2 has more mechanics
they are literally the same

>> No.6017523
File: 740 KB, 1920x1080, dump002.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Look guys! The guard is walking

>> No.6017525

-Thief 2 does not have levels where the player has to kill multiple enemies and there are no sections where the player must use high explosives near enemies so they're forced to be detected. So there is an objectively higher quality of stealth.
-Thief 2 introduces new equipment with unique uses and combination locks and AI-relightable gas lamps are added into the level design. That counts as an objectively larger quantity of mechanics.

>> No.6017529

neither game can be ghosted so who cares

>> No.6017531

Yeah alright Necroage is a bit dark but fits the original game textures pretty well.
Unlike Bentraxx shit, the shit he made for Thief 2 with 3d grass etc is pretty disgusting.

>> No.6017536

>player has to kill multiple enemies
where did this happen?

>> No.6017538

The anon who asked which game is better I would assume.

>> No.6017540

Return to The Cathedral has you kill 9 haunts.

>> No.6017551

Running Interference has you knockout 8 guards. How is that "a higher quality of le stealth"?

>> No.6017565

Not that anon but Interference is really a glorified tutorial mission.

>> No.6017573

Undercover has you sound the alarm and the level design is fundamentally incompatible with making it out unseen after that point. Strange Bedfellows forces you to kill every single bugbeast if you so much as stealthily knock out one of them. If you think that having to incapacitate 8 people in a mission that literally doesn't let you kill anyone even on the easiest difficulty somehow makes a game less stealthy than one where the level designers simply don't even give you stealth as an option in multiple missions then I can't help you. Thief 1 has 3 missions where stealth is impossible and mandates 9 kills minimum. Thief 2 has you deal 8-9 points of non-lethal damage in total.

>> No.6017596

*correction. Thief 2 has you deal 9 points of non-lethal damage in total. It's not possible to knock out Cavador with gas.

>> No.6017610

Not kills if they aren't alive.

>> No.6017628

Leave those goalposts alone. What did they ever do to you?

>> No.6017630

>makes a game less stealthy
I never said that, it's you who has invented a stealth-o-meter, so I'm trying to understand how it works. Your initial argument was that Thief 1 has obligatory requirements for dealing damage, so I pointed out that T2 has that too. Lethal or non-lethal, they're either both non-stealth, as you are unveiling your presence, or they both can be considered stealth, as kills can be done 'stealthily' too. If the understanding of stealth has shifted to counting damage points, I guess I can't argue anymore.

>> No.6017642

I didn't even need to resort to arguing about damage numbers, I only indulged the Running Interference argument due to that mission's 8 knockouts not being equivalent to RtTC's 9 kills. There is still no contest. Bonehoard forces you to blow shit up in a room with 5 zombies and a fire shadow. Undercover sounds the alarm and funnels you down a singular path that inevitably leads to alerted hammerites. Return to The Cathedral has you detonate a nuke in a well-patrolled area. I don't need to dissect how many knockouts Thief 2 because of how badly Thief 1 loses by a more relevant metric.

>> No.6017691

Not that guy but Thief 2 has its fair share of bullshit gameplay too. Trace the courier is an overly long and linear scripted sequence that ends with enemies getting alerted to your presence for no reason. Kidnap has a lot of bullshit camera/turret setups on top of erratic patrols and has you knock out a gas immune AI that's closely guarded by several enemies (including one that is immune to blackjacking). One of the objectives in Precious Cargo spawns a haunt right in front of you just like in Bonehoard. First City Bank has the whole basement taking up a big chunk of the mission, an area that could have been made by someone after spending 15 minutes in dromed. Eavesdropping has you sit in place for 5 real time minutes to complete one of the objectives. And then there's Soulforge...

>> No.6017716

Fuck Thieves Guild

>> No.6017717

By these metrics Dishonored 2 is the best stealth game ever made because the whole thing can be ghosted.

>> No.6017724

Damn right, and also fuck the enemy placement in the lost city. Vanilla Thief lost city is much better and more lonely as only those elementals spawn instead of fucking hand mages out of nothing.

>> No.6017739

Also I forgot that shit half finished mission stopped many playthroughs back in the day.
Wish there as a way to play regular Thief.

The concept is good but fucking hell. I guess you get two other okay missions out of it.

>> No.6017741

also theif 2 has missions that require you to ghost them.

>> No.6017761

Yes, but they made them so easy anyone who casually played through the previous game would be bored out of his mind.

>> No.6017772

How are there newfags that still don't know about GoldToDark?

>> No.6017774

>really like the atmosphere of this series
>cant fucking stand slow paced boring as fuck stealth autism

Just let me run around stabbing fags.

>> No.6017813

>And then there's Soulforge...
Soulforge's quality has and will always be entirely subjective. From my experience it's the culmination of all the challenges that the game has offered so far and the limited resources really encourage stealth above everything else whereas the previous missions except Casing basically assumed that you'd just be knocking out everyone. Others say they hate it, and morons actually try to tell you that it isn't still the best final mission despite competing against a hallway that ends with a 3 minute wait and a recycled city level anti-fetch-quest.

>> No.6017859

>Just let me run around stabbing fags
You can do that, in fact you'll finish missions a lot faster if you focus on taking out guards, instead of figuring out how to sneak past them

>> No.6017872

I understand given the age of the games, but a modern engine game using the same type of sound design would probably explain why its a great experience.
Its all about simulating a believable place.

Fuck I felt much more on the edge hiding in the shadows or just listening to guards talk in Thief than in you regular fucking shooter.

>> No.6018054

I think youre exagerating a bit. Theif 1 is certainly harder than theif 2, but I thought those levels were fun, and challenging. Atleast on expert.

>> No.6018074

Arguing about Fief 1 and 2 is really just fighting over two masterpieces. They're both amazing.

>> No.6018329

i agree i just feel like people in these threads can be pretty hard on theif 2

>> No.6018350

Learn to write thou Pagan filth.

>> No.6018585

So, random walking patterns of guards, are they good or bad, exciting or "load the save till you get the winning combination"?

>> No.6018630

Random patterns should always be combined with level design that supports hiding. So you can have a room fully of zigzagging patrols as long as there are spots where you can hide and wait for the next opportunity. I think Thieves' Guild had a good example of that done very badly, where there's a basement that's fully lit with electrical lights at all times and there are two servants walking around in an unpredictable pattern at all times.
Forget random patrols, some stealth players think it's unacceptable to ever have instant 180°s. So a guard should never have a patrol node that requires them to turn around and walk back where they came from. Because if the player is just about to knock out a guard they'll get caught because the guard turns around. -Because the player was impatient and didn't observe the patrol pattern before acting. It's their own fault and they still think it's legitimate criticism.

>> No.6018731

It's interesting when zombies and hounds walk in a random pattern, but it can still lead to some shitty situations where you just cannot avoid them without attracting their attention, like in that prison mission for example when they will sometimes just hang around the elevator, not moving anyway further, or will block your exit from the abandoned chapel.
So maybe the solution is that the one enemy should have 3 or more randomly alternating patrolling routes that would prevent him from bugging out in one place or just getting stuck in a hallway when he encounters the other guard going in the opposite direction

>> No.6018856

Because it is not actively recommended on /vr/ and /v/ nor is it mentioned in the 'How to play Thief' image.

>> No.6018965

>Forget random patrols, some stealth players think it's unacceptable to ever have instant 180°s
Depends on the stealth game. This is really dumb in Hitman 2: Silent Assassin, where the stealth mode puts you at a movement speed slower than a non-alert patrolling guard, so it is impossible to tail them to knock them out without either abusing sliding (a glitch where rhytmically tapping Run Forward causes you to move fast without making a sound) or getting the drop on them somehow.
Experiences like this make me believe that a guard should stand still for a few seconds before proceeding with patrol mode, or he should telegraph which way he's about to turn so that you can juke his line of sight if you're observant. Or, of course, grant more hiding spots.

>> No.6019093

I have been hard on it as well. But I didnt know they were basically closing doors and rushing to finish it. Miracle really. God bless LGS.

Fuck I wish somebody redid Deadly Shadows in the dark engine.

>> No.6019096


Fuck where is it?

>> No.6019141

on the internet

>> No.6019203
File: 132 KB, 1685x1381, heroninn.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Fuck I wish somebody redid Deadly Shadows in the dark engine.
Many years ago I made this sketch, trying to come up with a way to make the linear tutorial mission into something that even remotely resembles the form of an actual building. The most viable progression still follows the linear formula of the tutorial, but it's actually built like a place and not a level. Also instead of tutorial segments having mandatory actions, they are voluntary. It's still easiest to knock out the receptionist to proceed but if you want to challenge yourself it is possible to get by him unseen.

>> No.6019410

Too many rooms that are just "enter in, get items, leave out same way", would be too boring.

The other maps later on in the game, like St. Edgar's, would be way more interesting (and could even be a little more fleshed out to make them better). I think some people on TTLG were scared of this being """illegal""" to do though, and I'm not sure myself but I'm sure it wouldn't be THAT bad to try someday.

>> No.6019426

I would fucking love to do it or help, but I am struggling with learning dromed first.

Some levels in deadly shadows would be amazing in the dark engine.

>> No.6019445

Well, it is basically a hotel and the only other way out of a hotel room would be a window or an air duct. (Which I admit I neglected to add) It was hard enough to find an excuse to give Lord Julian's room a second exit. Also, what makes you think those rooms would have items to take in them? The whole idea of the sketch was to turn what is blatantly a linear videogame level into something resembling a place. Every location shouldn't have an explicit gameplay-serving purpose. If nothing is ever pointless then the world revolves around the player.

>> No.6019452

You can just skip it

>> No.6019460

How is it unfinished anyways? I'm convinced people who can't figure this mission out are retarded and don't use the compass ever. Lord help you if you never play a FM without a map.

>> No.6019462

Its too jank compared to other missions, no wonder it got scrapped.

Its all over the place but I can see where they were going whit it. The first part with the casino is charming.

I mean compare it to Assassins, or The Sword.

>> No.6019546

People hate it mostly for the unpredictable servants and the search for the key, bracelet and the that vase can be very tedious

>> No.6019678

That's entirely correct. It is beneficial for Thief maps to have places that don't serve any purpose except to just be there. As long as there isn't too many of them, of course.

>> No.6019685

I agree its one of the things that make me appreciate Thief level design, hidden loot is well placed.

In a regular game you get out of the beaten path young get a cookie, in Thief when you search beneath the stairs, there is nothing there, what did you expect right? Its just beneath the stairs.

>> No.6020708

what do you guys think of this map?


>> No.6020750

Typical Russian trash.

>> No.6021948

Looks cool and plays like trash. Author's other missions only push further in both those directions.

>> No.6022034

>That counts as an objectively larger quantity of mechanics.
quantity vs quality

Thief only requires you to kill multiple enemies in Return to the Cathedral on the highest skill level, and they are undead hammerite souls you are relieving of eternal torment.

The way you frame and argue it sounds like Thief requires you to kill people willy-nilly all the time, whereas Thief 2 is the paragon of pacifism. It's not. I bet you everyone went completely apeshit killing mechanists the first time they re-visit Karath-Din to get Brother Cavador. Also what are you on about with the high explosives? The only time you have to use one is to break out of the Cathedral, at the literal end of the level.

Thief 1 has superior stealth because there are more enemies and more levels with enemies that have specific conditions to be incapacitated (undead with holy water, explosives or flash bombs) for which you will never have enough equipment to clear out the entire level. 90% of Thief 2 can be comfortably completed blackjacking everything and everyone. You are forced to make use of the stealth mechanics in Thief 1.

>> No.6022654

>with enemies that have specific conditions to be incapacitated (undead with holy water, explosives or flash bombs) for which you will never have enough equipment to clear out the entire level.

not that anon but this doesnt involve stealth youre fighting these enemies. Plus thief 2 has things like cameras that you cant fight and have to sneak past. Also, the mechanist machines require the same resource as putting out lights so you have to balence between the two. Plus theif 2 has the scouting orb that helps enhance your sneaking ability.

>> No.6022848

>what are you on about with the high explosives?
-You need to detonate 5 fire arrows to get to the Mystic's Soul in Bonehoard in a room with 6 enemies. You will be heard and you will be seen.
-You need to detonate 1 explosive to get to the Keeper grotto in Haunted Cathedral right next to one of the most unpredictable and hardest to sneak through level sections in the franchise. you will be heard and at least put several enemies to maximum alertness.
-You need to blow up the cloister gate in Return to The Cathedral. All that hard work gone to waste.

In Thief 2 there is no section where you ever have to make the enemy aware of your presence. In Deadly Shadows there is one. It doesn't matter that the Mystic's Soul is only acquired on Hard difficulty. There is still an objective quality difference in stealth between the games because in one game stealth is possible and in another it isn't. Oh and by the way your casual mentioning of "quantity vs quality" with no comment as if it means anything was apparently more pointless than you imagined since Thief 2 has an objectively higher quantity of mechanics and an objectively higher quality of stealth.

>> No.6023072

>Thief 2 has an objectively higher quantity of mechanics
What would these be? Scouting orbs? Robots? Blackjack immune AIs? Cameras? Some of these were already present in Thief 1 or had a direct counterpart, otherwise the base gameplay is pretty much the same across the games. More mechanics don't necessarily make a game better. Nobody fondly remembers oil flasks, climbing gloves or the lockpicking minigame from Thief 3 despite them being "new" mechanics as well.

>objectively higher quality of stealth.
Only if you go by that autistic definition of what good stealth is. Most missions in Thief 2 are so easy as to be almost trivial (particularly those catering to the ghosting crowd like Framed, Courier and Casing the Joint) and the ones that are actually challenging often felt cheap and poorly designed. Thief 1 made you blow stuff up, and in the end it was a far more memorable and fun gameplay experience than any of its sequels.

>> No.6023742

It does matter that it's an objective locked behind difficulty, because the average joe on first couple times through will not encounter a special objective like that. Also your logic is twisted in that you EXPECT to be able to ghost the game, a strategy that was developed long after the release of the game and that isn't an intuitive strategy for the game at all. You are also taking 3 small segments of the game and blow them completely out of proportion.

The game was never meant to be ghosted. You can safely just run past and escape from the zombies in The Mystic's Soul. Also, wouldn't you admit that that trap is a pretty effective way of keeping thieves out, making it impossible for them to go by undetected?

I have never had the problem with the Keeper Grotto that you have described, to be quite frank. I either blackjack the Burricks or time myself for using the fire arrow. The way to the Cathedral and the cathedral itself is absolutel ghostable.

The cloister gate is what you do at the very very end of the mission, so what hard work goes to waste? It's not like the dead are going to call the guardsmen.

Thief 1 has a higher objective quality in stealth in that it puts you in much more difficult situations in which you need to be stealthy (being locked in a cathedral with undead) whereas Thief 2 does not (human enemies, easily dispatchable robots). Thief 2 is great in its way, but it's much lower difficulty tarnishes the stealth mechanics.

>> No.6023748

>not that anon but this doesnt involve stealth youre fighting these enemies

Are you an idiot? The fact that you need special equipment often BARS you from fighting them, FORCING you to stealth past them. Human guards that can be blackjacked do NOT force you to stealth.

The cameras in Thief 2 are a joke, and are easily snuck by, and in the most cases can be simply turned off. They are an extra mechanic, but an easily outmaneuvered one.

>> No.6023758

nice titties

>> No.6023891

>The fact that you need special equipment often BARS you from fighting them

you can buy equipment in the begining of levels to deal with them, and some levels even give you renewable resources. So it is similar to dispatching the machines.

>The cameras in Thief 2 are a joke, and are easily snuck by, and in the most cases can be simply turned off

sure you can turn them off but often you have to find the controls which isnt in the same spot. Also, there are plenty of cameras that are placed in ways that bar you from entry to rooms. Not to mention the gun that will just shoot you if it sees you.

>> No.6024016

Nobody is talking about ghosting. In a stealth game your first priority is to remain undetected. In Thief your second priority is to not kill anyone. Only if you really want to challenge yourself should you add avoiding all violence on top of staying undetected. That is ghosting, and nobody expects the games to be designed to support it. Which is why they aren't. Hell, Thieves' Guild has at least 3 mandatory knockouts. You are expected to knock out some people and in several missions you have to. But you seem to think it that a stealth game should compromise in another area it seems. In the area of stealth. No.

And not "No, I don't think so" I mean "Wrong." You can compromise on non-violence because it doesn't affect you. You cannot compromise on stealth because it's a bell that cannot be un-rung. Once you're seen you can't just make your perceiver forget. Nor can you heal Garrett's ego, the only reason why avoids murder in the first place. And that's why Thief 1's stealth is objectively worse. It doesn't have "more difficult situations". It has impossible situations. It is not possible to maintain the prerequisite of stealth gameplay when you are forced to use explosives near enemies that you cannot stealthily incapacitate prior to using said explosives. And I don't even want to speculate on the astronomical improbability of all the aggroed hammerites not being near the training room once you leave the basement in Undercover after LITERALLY SOUNDING THE ALARM WITH NO OPTION NOT TO. -Though I suppose you could just knock out everyone in the building without anyone noticing so there's no one left to attack you. Now that's what I call compromising non-violence for the sake of stealth.

>> No.6024918

Nice drawing! I remember being a little 9 year old fuck making dozens of those hammers for no reason.

>> No.6024932

Is Undercover a good mission or not? I remember being frustrated at the mission objectives few years ago.

>> No.6025013

It's a great mission even though I hate the unavoidable alarm at the end it's nice to have the variety of a disguise mechanic. You just need to learn a whole new set of rules on what you can do, since stealing very specific items but not others will cause suspicion and even just being seen looking at some things will cause them to raise the alarm. It's a mission where ghosting is impossible but its rules mean that you need to very strategically use your blackjack. If you succeed, you can get through without ever being attacked despite the alarm.

>> No.6025396

VR Thief when?

>> No.6025423

Yes. Anyone whinging about it is a basedboy or retard.

>> No.6025573

Thief 1 is not a stealth game. It's a game about a character who happens to be a thief and uses his skills to his advantage in the most diverse situations. The point of the game is not roleplaying the ego of Garrett. I couldn't care less about the ego of Garrett or the ego of butthurt players who play "a stealth game" instead of Thief: The Dark Project. I chose not to kill any person even on the normal difficulty, because of how believable they were designed, and I felt it improper to kill a guard who had done me nothing wrong. And I would choose the explosives and and the undead and the unavoidable alarms and all the other emergent gameplay situations any day over the ad nauseam formulaistic "stealth" and "master thief" wankery of Thief 2, where every location and every enemy placement is deliberately screaming "look at me, I'm here so that you can exercise your stealth on me"

>> No.6025583

I mean the alarm is Cragscleft is avoidable, so what? Who would want to sacrifice the fun of letting all the prisoners out, sounding the alarm and playing the rest of the level in the chaotic atmosphere of a prison break over some dubious stealth gameplay? Only boring people.

>> No.6025737

>Thief 1 is not a stealth game

>> No.6025909

Life of the Party does something similar. I know there's a way to turn it off but it's so well hidden and in such a random location that I doubt most players ever knew about it. The only reason I found it is because I read about it online.

>> No.6025947

If there is a flaw in Thief 1 and 2, or well the dark engine is the terrible models. Helps in ss2 in a weird way

But man I would love for guards to have the ability to just walk around with sheathed swords, and draw them when alert.

>> No.6025965

>Once you're seen you can't just make your perceiver forget

And yet you can still sneak by a guard that has seen you once and he will not notice you if you adjust for his heightened sense of alert, which is where the stealth gameplay is great and varied in the Thief games.

You say you're not talking about ghosting, but you are. Stealth in Thief is not just about going undetected 100% of the time, it's also about having CONTINGENCY PLANS. What do you do when you're caught? Flashbomb, Blackjack? Speed Potion? Lethal option? You could argue that having to plan for such contingency varies and heightens the quality of the stealth mechanics much more rather than always having the option of being able to go completely undetected.

Which brings me to Undercover: Undercover is quite clearly a mission that is designed to be incredibly difficult to manage, even on Normal difficulty. It's your worst nightmare: tiled floor and light almost everywhere, loot requirement and desire for loot that forces you to go into heavily guarded sections that will oust your disguise. It's the only mission that switches up the stealth mechanics to "hiding in plain sight" by blending, something that Thief 2 doesn't have. The hammerite guard system is just actually quite smartly designed to sound without an option to be able to shut it off. They're hiding 2 of the keys to the fucking zombie apocalypse after all, and you're trying to steal them. So what's your contigency plan for when the jig is finally up? The mission has loads to offer: gas arrow, gas mines, flashbombs, taking a detour through the basement/crypts, just straight up fleeing through the front door.

And then, like the other anon said, Thief 2 does something similar to you in Life of the Party. Because I didn't know about it, I, like thousands of others very likely, had to take the alert route in that mission.

>> No.6025972

Undercover is proto hitman in a way. I love just to chilax in that mission before doing the objectives. Thief 2 lacks one.

>> No.6025973

>you can buy equipment in the begining of levels to deal with them, and some levels even give you renewable resources.

The equipment you can buy is scarce, especially on the higher difficulties, and the only time you can renew your resources are fire arrows in the Gold version of the game, and if you decide to waste water arrows on them. The Fire Spirits are only there to give you extra fire arrows to light the torches for the extra objectives, not for ammo. So no, the undead enemies are not in fact the same or even similar to the robots or human guards.

> sure you can turn them off but often you have to find the controls which isnt in the same spot

And in over half the cases the control for the cameras is right next to them, or similarly obviously placed and easily accessible, and sneaking past them is not in the least bit difficult since they switch down from yellow alert quite easily and take a long time to detect you if you use even a modicum of stealth. They aren't a real challenge.

>> No.6025978

The Executive Producer of Hitman pushed for open ended level design and stealth after experience with Thief and Deus Ex.

>> No.6025979

Yes I know. Thief is kinda obscure darling, but its a seed game, its waves are felt in every single game afterwards.

>> No.6026913

this part is kinda true theif 1 isnt just a stealth game. Levela like boneyard are more about dungeon delving than stealth.

damn anon am i that lowly to you that you wont even reply to me. Also, sure the equipment is scarse, and you do get flooded with equipment in theif 2. I dont think were going to agree on anything honestly. I dont think the cameras are trivial or that they should be writen off. Plus they are still an extra layer of complexity for stealth. Also, i think having to balnce water arrows for putting out lights, and the machines is similar to only having scarse objects for the other enemies you actually need to sneak by.

undercover is one of my favorite thief 1 missions. Its a shame they never got to make its thief 2 equivlent.

>> No.6026992
File: 1.10 MB, 1280x720, immersive sim.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That's one of the most important aspects of an immersive sim. Options. Cragscleft lets you do all sorts of things that you don't need to do, because it makes sense that you should be logically capable of doing them. So you can cause chaos by releasing the prisoners. You can lure zombies to hammerites and watch them fight. You can pour metal into molds to smelt hammers. But most importantly... you don't have to. That's why Cragscleft is a great mission.
webm ironic

>> No.6027028

>theif 1 isnt just a stealth game
That's just stealth games in general. Splinter Cell, MGS, Hitman, Manhunt all have some not-so-stealthy parts

>> No.6027419

Every single mission of Thief TDP and 2 reimagined toady in a powerful engine with unlimited money would be fucking amazing. The concepts are all there held back by old tech. And DS by consoles with zero ram.

But still what it accomplished was fucking incredible.

>> No.6027446

Has anoyne tried this? I have no mic

>> No.6028664

he sounds like a twelve year old but looks like a registered sex offender

>> No.6029472

I'm thinking of creating a new "so you want to play some fucking thief" guide, but updated with new missions and without the "praised but actually quite flawed" missions like Calendra's Legacy.

I was also thinking of grouping the missions somewhat, like putting skacky's all together and under his name.

I'm also pretty sure that we can eliminate most FMs that piss anons off while still having a good number from all the new ones.

Any tips or suggestions from anons?

>> No.6029958

That sounds like a good idea. A lot of the FMs on the lists aren't actually all that great, mostly to be enjoyed for the most hardcore of fans. Incidentally, does anyone else have the problem that Darkloader wants to load the T20th anniversary missions into Thief 2 instead of Thief Gold? Nothing seems to fix that for me.

>> No.6030818
File: 1.38 MB, 1400x3900, so you wanna.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Stop using fucking darkloader holyshit just use fmsel or even fengaynix's angel loader thing but please stop that

I think a lot of the missions on the original here were fine, but there are some retarded listings. Shit like Sepulchre of the Sinestral, Mission X, Trail of Blood 2 and so on should fuck right off.

>> No.6031153

its because of retards like you that this list is fucking shit. You dont have an issue with the host of generic city missions that take up most of the list but SoS should go? Fucking retard.

>> No.6031457 [DELETED] 

Cry all you want but SoS is a fucking dogshit slog of a mission that's nothing like thief. Don't even try the "b-but muh bonehoard!" bullshit cause that's not an excuse to shit in the face of everything that makes up Thief's design philosophy.

I'd rather take a "generic" city mission, which almost none of them are by the way, over that any day of the week. Keep shitting your pants over city missions.

>> No.6031470

Cry all you want but SoS is a fucking dogshit slog of a mission that's not fun in anyway shape or form. Don't even try the "b-but muh bonehoard on steroids!" bullshit cause that's not a good thing.

I'd rather take a "generic" city mission, which almost none of them are by the way, over that any day of the week. Keep shitting your pants over city missions.

>> No.6031504

you can each make your own list and i will continue to not play the missions on either

>> No.6032421

^ literally not even a bad idea.
Break the lists up by theme. City, Magic, Joke, etc...

>> No.6032769
File: 517 KB, 501x896, 1534257172243.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]