THIEF

[Anonymous No.6003396]

FM List
https://pastebin.com/DhRAphDY

[Anonymous No.6003397]

[Anonymous No.6003402]

[Anonymous No.6003429]

Shit game.

[Anonymous No.6003443]

Should I continue Rocksbourg: Ink and Dust? Made it all the way to the room with a key under a severed head but the lack of a map is a major pain in the ass with how big the level is.

[Anonymous No.6003458]

>>6003443
Yea, do it for the finishing clout and so you can check it off as 'complete' in the FM selector of your choice.

[Anonymous No.6003492]

>>6003429
Based

[Anonymous No.6003728]

You are working on your fm, right anon? You're not slacking off again are you?

[Anonymous No.6003736]

>>6003429
t. mgsbabby

[Anonymous No.6003740]

Started Sound of a Burrick in the Room and the cityscape is awesome.

[Anonymous No.6003786]

>>6003728
My current mission is at 4k cells.

[Anonymous No.6003926]

https://voca.ro/9ehCCSU1Bgh
https://voca.ro/mO0ADwdlb2J

[Anonymous No.6004081]

>>6003926
The Trickster's magic is ensnaring me, brother.

[Anonymous No.6004105]

>>6003926
Do you voice act for FMs? Because you should.

[Anonymous No.6004587]

Thoughts on TGTool?

[Anonymous No.6004695]

thief sucks

[Anonymous No.6004704]

>>6003926
you're a talented voice actor

[Anonymous No.6004707]

[Anonymous No.6004709]

>>6004707

[Anonymous No.6004712]

>>6004709

[Anonymous No.6004734]

Is it possible to fall at a height high enough to where you will die hitting the ground in water?

[Anonymous No.6004782]

>>6004105
>>6004704
I didn't make those. That anon hasn't come around in a while.

[Anonymous No.6005051]

>>6003926
>https://voca.ro/mO0ADwdlb2J
something about that hammerite ambient makes me laugh every fucking time i hear it

[Anonymous No.6005146]

>>6005051
I wish that anon was around to provide the dialogue without the hammerite ambience so I could create a Daniel Thron after effects style cutscene with custom ambient

[Anonymous No.6005656]

Recommended audio settings for Thief? Currently using OpenAL with EAX off.

[Anonymous No.6005846]

>>6005656
Original eax sounded great in Thief, I still use it.
Just enhances the already good sound design.

[Anonymous No.6006394]

>>6005846
I always found EAX to sound absolutely dreadful in Thief.

[Anonymous No.6006498]

Just finished Sound of a Burrick in a Room. Amazing city mission.

[Anonymous No.6007091]

>>6004734
The very beginning of Precious Cargo has a chasm meant to restrict the player by using precisely that. They wanted to put water in the bottom to show that Garrett arrived by rowboat, they wanted the player to see that the scenery continues onward and there isn't just a wall where he came from but they couldn't let the player go there to look at the bounds of the level. So the water is low enough and the fall is high enough to kill the player if they try to go there.

[Anonymous No.6007473]

[Anonymous No.6007479]

[Anonymous No.6007554]

>>6006394
I am no audiophile but I like it? Whats the problem?

Its cool to hear guards footsteps down the street with some echo on it.

[Anonymous No.6007595]

Is Thief kino?

[Anonymous No.6007647]

>>6007595
No. Looking Glass developers said multiple times that they went to extreme lengths to tell most of the story via interactive gameplay and only ever used cutscenes (cinematic elements) when they couldn't get things across ingame. When you call an immersive sim "kino" you're literally calling it a bad immersive sim because you're implying that there are epic setpieces where something meticulously directed happens the same way every time. Only shitty movie games are kino. And Half-Life.

[Anonymous No.6007753]

>>6007554
All the sounds are muffled like hell.

[Anonymous No.6007754]

>>6007753
Really? Does not look like it on my end.

[Anonymous No.6007759]

>>6007754
I vastly prefer the crispier sound heard when EAX is turned off.

[Anonymous No.6007783]

>>6007647
except hl is good unlike thief.

[Anonymous No.6007802]

>>6007759
agreed

[Anonymous No.6007803]

>>6007783
Thief is a masterpiece. And will continue to be so while HL is forgotten.

[Anonymous No.6007813]

>>6007803
other way around. No one cares about thief.
Meanwhile people remember every other major 1998 game.

[Anonymous No.6007821]

Is the black parade ever coming out?


Fuck I wish somebody would jazz up the original missions one day with stupid levels of detail just to play them again with a remix feel.

[Anonymous No.6007825]

>>6007813
wrong but I don't even know what are you trying to accomplish with this bait

[Anonymous No.6007835]

>>6007825
you know i'm right.

[Anonymous No.6007864]

>>6007821
It's being led by Yandros and a bunch of competent mapmakers with skacky checking up on it.

[Anonymous No.6007867]

>>6007864
>We have assembled a team of highly talented builders and architects who will be doing most of the work to make sure it's at least halfway decent. I basically just proofread Random_Taffer's story and made the website, and am now going to sit back and drink coffee for the next few years until I can take credit for the project (but only if it gets good reviews).

[Anonymous No.6007882]

>>6007864
Its taking too fucking long.


Btw is DMod worth trying?

[Anonymous No.6007894]

>>6007882
Yes, just keep in mind it's all FMs so you gotta find a good one.

[Anonymous No.6007957]

>>6007864
Yandros is not part of the Black Parade team.

[Anonymous No.6007961]

>>6007894
One thing I have always wondered I never used dromed. I should try one day.

Does the Garret model have any animations ingame? Like third person?

I know it has a model because of the eye in 2.

[Anonymous No.6007975]

>>6007957
tell that to him

[Anonymous No.6008007]

>>6007975
These aren't the same projects.

[Anonymous No.6008042]

[Anonymous No.6008054]

>>6007479
where'd you find this?

[Anonymous No.6008112]

>>6007961
https://youtu.be/k2P4hKjTfIo

[Anonymous No.6008125]

>>6008054
Darkfate.

[Anonymous No.6008129]

[Anonymous No.6008138]

[Anonymous No.6008139]

>>6008112
Shit he does have. And its as janky as I expected. Here goes my graceful first person mental image of Garret out of the window.

Dude in ss2 is probably the same.

[Anonymous No.6008140]

>>6003443
Yes, so you can get buttraped in the Dark Zone.
>in the maze looking for the objective
> can't see shit
> hear noises coming from different directions
> decide to light up the lantern to get my bearings
> mfw one of those hunchback fuckers comes storming at me at 300mph from the end of the hall

[Anonymous No.6008167]

[Anonymous No.6008169]

[Anonymous No.6008173]

[Anonymous No.6008208]

[Anonymous No.6008232]

>>6008169
Pleb drawing. At least the cutscenes in Thi3f didn't have the dumb eye scar.

[Anonymous No.6008247]

>>6008232
ok taffer

[Anonymous No.6008250]

[Anonymous No.6008257]

New FM you dicklords: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150204

[Anonymous No.6008264]

>>6008257
at least post the pics

[Anonymous No.6008265]

>>6008257
On a scale of 0 to 10 how fucking annoying dromed is?

Just wish it was like trenchbroom

[Anonymous No.6008271]

>>6008265
>trenchbroom

[Anonymous No.6008279]

>>6008265
Its interface is archaic and you have no vertex editing nor any sort of clipping tool, but it's also a really powerful editor that allows you to edit pretty much every aspect of the game without you having to juggle between several different programs to achieve the same result.

[Anonymous No.6008281]

>>6008279
Gonna go for it Thief kinda captivated me, never got to play it. And already finished 1 and 2 two times. Deadly Shadows is okay as well,but kinda wish it was made on the style of the first two.

[Anonymous No.6008308]

>>6008281
Good luck mate. Don't be afraid to ask questions here, a few taffers who know DromEd lurk around here.

[Anonymous No.6008643]

>>6008264
>city mission
*yawn*

[Anonymous No.6008658]

>>6008281
Nicked's guide is a great one for showing the basics of wtf to do. Obviously he only makes a simple street + tower in the tutorial, but it covers all the basics.

I believe in you, anon-sama! Don't be afraid to ask here for help faggot

[Anonymous No.6008690]

>>6008643
t. thinks ink and dust is good

[Anonymous No.6008792]

>>6008643
Dude tall buildings lmao

[Anonymous No.6008910]

Thoughts on Yandros missions?

[Anonymous No.6009208]

[Anonymous No.6009427]

>>6008658
Jesus fuck this editor is fucking painful.

[Anonymous No.6009745]

>>6003728
im making a dnd map inspired by these games for my friends to play through as a one off

[Anonymous No.6009864]

>>6003396
What control scheme should I use for Thief Gold? When I click "LOAD" it gives me these options:

Thief Default Bindings
Unreal Bindings
Quake Bindings
WASD Bindings
Thief Classic Bindings
TFix default

Which most resembles Thief 2?

(I'm using the GOG version, incase that matters.)

[Anonymous No.6009868]

>>6009864
I already answered you in the doom thread.

[Anonymous No.6009939]

>>6009864
copy your user.bnd from thief 2 and out it jn thief gold
no need to thank me

[Anonymous No.6009987]

>>6009427
Anything in particular giving you trouble?

[Anonymous No.6009998]

>>6009987
Not really. Just the layout. And how slow it is to make more complex stuff. I am making a big house first to see how it works, make some doors, interactions. etc

[Anonymous No.6010004]

>>6008247
>greetings manfool, would you like to hold me down to the floor and shed your pollen inside of me? i am ready to disperse seeds right now
>no way fag

[Anonymous No.6010013]

Do you guys think Viktoria pussy in human form smells of weed?

[Anonymous No.6010251]

>>6010013
it smells like freshly mowed grass or pine needles

[Anonymous No.6010363]

>>6009868
No one ever answered which one most resembles Thief 2.

[Anonymous No.6010414]

>>6008910
Hi yandros

[Anonymous No.6010418]

>>6009427
Dromed LOOKS fucking amazing. It makes you look like a genius who uses retro hacking tools.

[Anonymous No.6010434]

>>6008910
Hit and miss, but he got better as time went on. At least he's not like that retard cardia who's released something like 15 missions and still shits out utter trash

[Anonymous No.6010451]

Underrated FMs?

[Anonymous No.6010937]

>>6010251
Freshly mowed grass when it's just shaved. Patch of moss after rain when it's not.

[Anonymous No.6011546]

Thoughts on Lady Rowena FMs?

[Anonymous No.6011583]

>>6003396
Thief 1 is fun but the spiders are the scariest fucking spiders I've ever seen in a game. The low polycount makes them even scarier honestly.

[Anonymous No.6011605]

>>6011583
They are pretty horrible in SS2 as well. I never had trouble with them but I dont deny the sound kinda weirded me out.

I still remember the first time i heard one in the mines.

[Anonymous No.6011651]

>>6011605
I actually got through SS2 without getting spooked that much. I guess it helps when you got a gun and not a pussy bow.

[Anonymous No.6011656]

>>6011651
Once you get the hang of Garret, dont even hammer haunts get me. But then again Ive played Thief like 500 times so.

[Anonymous No.6011932]

Are there any fan maps that retouch the original vanilla maps, not with shitty hi res textures but improve some aspects?

[Anonymous No.6011964]

>>6011932
I don't think there are any outright remakes of the original maps. There are some that build on top of them (e.g. Lorgan's Web/Assassins or Downtowne Funk/Thieves' Guild) but those end up being largely different.

[Anonymous No.6012014]

Retouching vanilla maps reminds me of another thing... The third mission of Calendra's Legacy takes place on the street that Garrett walks in the snowy epilogue of TDP

[Anonymous No.6012525]

>>6010451
POST TITLES OF UNDERRATED FMS

IF UNABLE, NAME YOUR FAVE

[Anonymous No.6012629]

>>6012525
Dark Messiah
The Unsung Villain
Hidden Agenda
Third Time's The Charm
The Night Shift
Just For Show
Out for a Revenge
The Focus
So Long Hammers
The Curse
By Order of an Unknown
Amoral Dilemma
Forbidden Rites
Ashes & Dust
Wicked Relics
A Theft In Hightowne
The Blue Star
Lingering Whispers
The Curse of the Skull Goblet

[Anonymous No.6012782]

[Anonymous No.6013203]

Anyone try the new TG mission? It's pretty good, worth trying out at least

[Anonymous No.6013218]

>>6012525
Saturio Returns Home
Rowena's Curse
Whitman's Disease

[Anonymous No.6013401]

>>6013218
Rowena's Curse is the polar opposite of underrated.

[Anonymous No.6013438]

>>6013203
I skip all city missions on general principle

[Anonymous No.6013568]

>>6013438
what's it like being gay/retarded anon

[Anonymous No.6013671]

>>6013568
well I get to have my prostate massaged while I play actually good missions so pretty nice overall

[Anonymous No.6013687]

>>6013438

[Anonymous No.6013776]

Jesus fuck most of these Thief fan missions are so fucking detailed, the engine really holds up except for character models. Thats why I was asking if somebody retouched vanilla missions, canon missions are really good but you can tell they were made on the late 90s, with time limits and with pc limitations before the engine upgrade.

Absolutely amazing.

Are there any HD packs worth it? Asking as a newb I am in love with this game series.

[Anonymous No.6013789]

>>6013776
Jesus H. Christ this looks fucking hideous.

[Anonymous No.6013790]

>>6013789
Some hd packs are hideous, are there any decent ones? I guess tfix already adn taffer patcher already spices shit a little bit.

[Anonymous No.6013801]

>>6013790
>Some hd packs are hideous, are there any decent ones?
No.

[Anonymous No.6013802]

>>6013801
Oh well. Would you recommend using no texture filtering?

[Anonymous No.6013809]

>>6013687
that's precisely how I picture every city mission loving fag to be like
>dude tall building lmao
>11/10 best mission ever skacky please fuck me in the ass

[Anonymous No.6013813]

>>6013802
Depends whether you like the look or not. I personally can't stand texture filtering so the ability to turn it off was a godsend.

[Anonymous No.6013816]

>>6013813
The game does look crisper in 1 and 2 especially 2 higher res textures. Now I get it why this game seems to hit on every cylinders with so many gamers, its fucking great. It does have some problems but fuck its a late 90s game.

[Anonymous No.6013820]

>>6013809
Next you're gonna tell me you hate Life of the Party because you're a retarded contrarian.

[Anonymous No.6013870]

>>6013820
Don't be ridiculous. Retarded contrarians hate all of Thief 2.

[Anonymous No.6013973]

>>6013802
Thief 2 looks worse with texture filtering disabled. It's a game made in 2000, not 1994 you hipsters.

[Anonymous No.6013979]

>>6013820
I like city missions and think Life of the Party is seriously overrated. Most of the mission is spent in Angelwatch which sucks.

>>6013809
Rocksbourg 1 and 2 are both city missions and are nothing like what you describe. That's more of a modern city mission thing.

[Anonymous No.6014018]

>>6013438
It's bank mission dummy.

[Anonymous No.6014070]

>>6013979
not the anon your replying to but the city missions are consistantly some of the worst missions in the first two games. Trace the Courier is alright though.

[Anonymous No.6014083]

>>6013809
What missions do you like, just curious. I hate the circle jerk for city missions as well. They're just loot simulators and nothing special after about the 3rd one.

[Anonymous No.6014105]

>>6014070
Nigga Trace the Courier is the worst
>flat, boring layout
>recycled from Ambush
>scripted linear progression
>basically a rehash of Assassins except drawn out, no longer novel, and without a cool mansion at the end

[Anonymous No.6014161]

>>6014105
The recycled content and the linearity are bad, but I think it's dishonest to criticize the layout as being flat and boring when in the same post you mention the half-empty symmetrical Ramirez mansion as a positive aspect. I'm not disputing the claim that Courier is the worst T2 mission though.

[Anonymous No.6014306]

>>6013790
>>6013790
WRONG,

There's a new 'HD" pack that is simply upscaled original textures and is p. good

TLDR:
Try the ESRGAN Texture pack

https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149825

https://imgsli.com/MzkxNg

[Anonymous No.6014309]

>>6013801
see >>6014306

[Anonymous No.6014395]

>>6013776
The amount of effort put into Thief FMs has always impressed me. Most other old games with active mod communities get a lot of lazy shit and the occasional well made mod, but Thief fans seem to go all out with that shit. The number of them that have original voice acting and even cutscenes is nuts.

[Anonymous No.6014440]

>>6014395
The Thief community continues to be extremely impressive and novel despite not being an open-source game.

Must have a lot to do with having the dev tools at launch and the culture of teaching/learning.

Plus most FMs are self-contained oneoffs so there's the allure of being master of your own domain

[Anonymous No.6014454]

>>6014306
Interesting thanks, but after trying them, I think tfix options with Thief 2 textures applied spaersely here and there look better, they kinda help Thief 1 lower res ones without breaking the style.

He went a bit too hard and dark on some of those but at least its trying to preserve the original look I guess.

[Anonymous No.6014825]

>>6014454
Thief 2's textures are almost all the same res as the originals. A lot of them are exactly the same as the originals except desaturated (which made sense in 2 because there's colored lighting to compensate, but there's none in 1 so it makes areas look uncharacteristically drab). I don't recommend it.

[Anonymous No.6015191]

>>6014105
thats fair trace the courier just frusterated me the least out of the city missions. I probably should replay assassins though now that i am more used to the games.

[Anonymous No.6015241]

>>6014825
I am not using all of them. Just the lite option in tfix

[Anonymous No.6016321]

[Anonymous No.6016578]

>>6010004

[Anonymous No.6017038]

Thief 1 vs 2: Which is better and why?

[Anonymous No.6017136]

>>6017038
-Thief 1 has better atmosphere
-Thief 1 has better enemy variety
-Thief 1 has better story

-Thief 2 has better stealth
-Thief 2 has better level design
-Thief 2 has more mechanics

[Anonymous No.6017191]

just installed tfix, are there any hd texture packs worth installing or is vanilla the chad way?

[Anonymous No.6017228]

>>6017191
I wouldn't say vanilla is the chad way but I know that the high-resolution textures are terrible because they aren't just high-res rescreated original textures. They're completely different ones and ruin the visuals of all ingame areas.

[Anonymous No.6017231]

>>6017038
Thief 1 is better and has more challenging stealth. Thief 2 has better graphics and a few standout missions.

[Anonymous No.6017348]

>>6017191
Vanilla. Like with most games, high res textures are just high res for the sake of it and you often lose any sense of a cohesive art style.

[Anonymous No.6017352]

>>6017136
I think level design is pretty close for me, but yeah sure.

Just because Thief 1 does some variety and some really well de masterful designed shit like cragscleft and the sword. Although stuff like undercover is jank, its not like the masks.

Thief 2 problems maybe was rushing it.

[Anonymous No.6017358]

>>6017191
The options in tfix for sky and minor stuff is okay.
That said I prefer vanilla for both.


However I think necroage did a really good job reimagining the game unlike other HD packs. Not stupidly high res and tries to have some color consistency, I enjoy how Thief 1 and 2 look with it.

[Anonymous No.6017390]

Is it just my stupidity, or is it really hard to find loot in Haunted Cathedral?

[Anonymous No.6017392]

>>6017390
It's probably the most challenging mission in Thief to reach the loot limit on expert. It's still nowhere near as bad as Thief 3 Expert loot requirements.

[Anonymous No.6017393]

>>6017231
i like theif 2 better overall, but I do wish ir was as hard as theif 1. You can be much louder in theif 2 and the gaurds wont notice. Hardly any need for moss arrows.

[Anonymous No.6017404]

>>6017392
The thing is, even on normal difficulty, I struggled to meet the loot requirement. Does the difficulty selection also modify the amount of loot?

[Anonymous No.6017406]

>>6017404
yes

[Anonymous No.6017408]

>>6017406
what i should say is, the difficulty setting modifies the amount of loot required, not the amount of loot on a map

[Anonymous No.6017409]

>>6017404
Its not that bad. You have to fine comb the level. Here is the real deal breaker.

Do you bother with stealthing undead? I never did, I avoid some but kill undead pretty liberally, and makes the undead levels better to navigate and explore.

[Anonymous No.6017414]

>>6017408
Well, then I guess I'm just that bad at the game.

>>6017409
I did at first, but soon gave up and smashed them with the sword.

[Anonymous No.6017416]

>>6017414
there's vases up on the rooftops you probably missed

[Anonymous No.6017417]

>>6017414
As you should, Haunts is another story but even then if you have flashbombs you can fuck them up.

[Anonymous No.6017445]

>>6017414
those levels have cool atmosohere and everything but part of the reason i dont like them is the loot requirements.

[Anonymous No.6017449]

what's that mod where you play as a slut

[Anonymous No.6017450]

>>6017449
a dance with rogues

[Anonymous No.6017469]

>>6017449
FTM Life

[Anonymous No.6017473]

>>6017449
Shadows of the Metal age. What a garbage protag.

[Anonymous No.6017475]

>>6017450
I have that, it's for NWN though. I'm talking about a Thief mod.
>>6017473
That's the one. Is it any good?

[Anonymous No.6017478]

>>6017475
>Is it any good?

Meh its okay. Nice level design at places.

[Anonymous No.6017514]

>>6017136
>-Thief 2 has better stealth
>-Thief 2 has more mechanics
they are literally the same

[Anonymous No.6017523]

Look guys! The guard is walking

[Anonymous No.6017525]

>>6017514
-Thief 2 does not have levels where the player has to kill multiple enemies and there are no sections where the player must use high explosives near enemies so they're forced to be detected. So there is an objectively higher quality of stealth.
-Thief 2 introduces new equipment with unique uses and combination locks and AI-relightable gas lamps are added into the level design. That counts as an objectively larger quantity of mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6017529]

>>6017525
neither game can be ghosted so who cares

[Anonymous No.6017531]

Yeah alright Necroage is a bit dark but fits the original game textures pretty well.
Unlike Bentraxx shit, the shit he made for Thief 2 with 3d grass etc is pretty disgusting.

[Anonymous No.6017536]

>>6017525
>player has to kill multiple enemies
where did this happen?

[Anonymous No.6017538]

>>6017529
The anon who asked which game is better I would assume.

[Anonymous No.6017540]

>>6017536
Return to The Cathedral has you kill 9 haunts.

[Anonymous No.6017551]

>>6017540
Running Interference has you knockout 8 guards. How is that "a higher quality of le stealth"?

[Anonymous No.6017565]

>>6017551
Not that anon but Interference is really a glorified tutorial mission.

[Anonymous No.6017573]

>>6017551
Undercover has you sound the alarm and the level design is fundamentally incompatible with making it out unseen after that point. Strange Bedfellows forces you to kill every single bugbeast if you so much as stealthily knock out one of them. If you think that having to incapacitate 8 people in a mission that literally doesn't let you kill anyone even on the easiest difficulty somehow makes a game less stealthy than one where the level designers simply don't even give you stealth as an option in multiple missions then I can't help you. Thief 1 has 3 missions where stealth is impossible and mandates 9 kills minimum. Thief 2 has you deal 8-9 points of non-lethal damage in total.

[Anonymous No.6017596]

*correction. Thief 2 has you deal 9 points of non-lethal damage in total. It's not possible to knock out Cavador with gas.

[Anonymous No.6017610]

>>6017573
Not kills if they aren't alive.

[Anonymous No.6017628]

>>6017529
>>6017610
Leave those goalposts alone. What did they ever do to you?

[Anonymous No.6017630]

>>6017573
>makes a game less stealthy
I never said that, it's you who has invented a stealth-o-meter, so I'm trying to understand how it works. Your initial argument was that Thief 1 has obligatory requirements for dealing damage, so I pointed out that T2 has that too. Lethal or non-lethal, they're either both non-stealth, as you are unveiling your presence, or they both can be considered stealth, as kills can be done 'stealthily' too. If the understanding of stealth has shifted to counting damage points, I guess I can't argue anymore.

[Anonymous No.6017642]

>>6017630
I didn't even need to resort to arguing about damage numbers, I only indulged the Running Interference argument due to that mission's 8 knockouts not being equivalent to RtTC's 9 kills. There is still no contest. Bonehoard forces you to blow shit up in a room with 5 zombies and a fire shadow. Undercover sounds the alarm and funnels you down a singular path that inevitably leads to alerted hammerites. Return to The Cathedral has you detonate a nuke in a well-patrolled area. I don't need to dissect how many knockouts Thief 2 because of how badly Thief 1 loses by a more relevant metric.

[Anonymous No.6017691]

>>6017642
Not that guy but Thief 2 has its fair share of bullshit gameplay too. Trace the courier is an overly long and linear scripted sequence that ends with enemies getting alerted to your presence for no reason. Kidnap has a lot of bullshit camera/turret setups on top of erratic patrols and has you knock out a gas immune AI that's closely guarded by several enemies (including one that is immune to blackjacking). One of the objectives in Precious Cargo spawns a haunt right in front of you just like in Bonehoard. First City Bank has the whole basement taking up a big chunk of the mission, an area that could have been made by someone after spending 15 minutes in dromed. Eavesdropping has you sit in place for 5 real time minutes to complete one of the objectives. And then there's Soulforge...

[Anonymous No.6017716]

Fuck Thieves Guild

[Anonymous No.6017717]

By these metrics Dishonored 2 is the best stealth game ever made because the whole thing can be ghosted.

[Anonymous No.6017724]

>>6017716
Damn right, and also fuck the enemy placement in the lost city. Vanilla Thief lost city is much better and more lonely as only those elementals spawn instead of fucking hand mages out of nothing.

[Anonymous No.6017739]

>>6017716
Also I forgot that shit half finished mission stopped many playthroughs back in the day.
Wish there as a way to play regular Thief.

The concept is good but fucking hell. I guess you get two other okay missions out of it.

[Anonymous No.6017741]

>>6017630
>>6017642
also theif 2 has missions that require you to ghost them.

[Anonymous No.6017761]

>>6017741
Yes, but they made them so easy anyone who casually played through the previous game would be bored out of his mind.

[Anonymous No.6017772]

>>6017739
How are there newfags that still don't know about GoldToDark?

[Anonymous No.6017774]

>really like the atmosphere of this series
>cant fucking stand slow paced boring as fuck stealth autism

Just let me run around stabbing fags.

[Anonymous No.6017813]

>>6017691
>And then there's Soulforge...
Soulforge's quality has and will always be entirely subjective. From my experience it's the culmination of all the challenges that the game has offered so far and the limited resources really encourage stealth above everything else whereas the previous missions except Casing basically assumed that you'd just be knocking out everyone. Others say they hate it, and morons actually try to tell you that it isn't still the best final mission despite competing against a hallway that ends with a 3 minute wait and a recycled city level anti-fetch-quest.

[Anonymous No.6017859]

>>6017774
>Just let me run around stabbing fags
You can do that, in fact you'll finish missions a lot faster if you focus on taking out guards, instead of figuring out how to sneak past them

[Anonymous No.6017872]

>>6017774
I understand given the age of the games, but a modern engine game using the same type of sound design would probably explain why its a great experience.
Its all about simulating a believable place.

Fuck I felt much more on the edge hiding in the shadows or just listening to guards talk in Thief than in you regular fucking shooter.

[Anonymous No.6018054]

>>6017761
I think youre exagerating a bit. Theif 1 is certainly harder than theif 2, but I thought those levels were fun, and challenging. Atleast on expert.

[Anonymous No.6018074]

>>6018054
Arguing about Fief 1 and 2 is really just fighting over two masterpieces. They're both amazing.

[Anonymous No.6018329]

>>6018074
i agree i just feel like people in these threads can be pretty hard on theif 2

[Anonymous No.6018350]

>>6018329
Learn to write thou Pagan filth.

[Anonymous No.6018585]

So, random walking patterns of guards, are they good or bad, exciting or "load the save till you get the winning combination"?

[Anonymous No.6018630]

>>6018585
Random patterns should always be combined with level design that supports hiding. So you can have a room fully of zigzagging patrols as long as there are spots where you can hide and wait for the next opportunity. I think Thieves' Guild had a good example of that done very badly, where there's a basement that's fully lit with electrical lights at all times and there are two servants walking around in an unpredictable pattern at all times.
Forget random patrols, some stealth players think it's unacceptable to ever have instant 180°s. So a guard should never have a patrol node that requires them to turn around and walk back where they came from. Because if the player is just about to knock out a guard they'll get caught because the guard turns around. -Because the player was impatient and didn't observe the patrol pattern before acting. It's their own fault and they still think it's legitimate criticism.

[Anonymous No.6018731]

>>6018585
It's interesting when zombies and hounds walk in a random pattern, but it can still lead to some shitty situations where you just cannot avoid them without attracting their attention, like in that prison mission for example when they will sometimes just hang around the elevator, not moving anyway further, or will block your exit from the abandoned chapel.
So maybe the solution is that the one enemy should have 3 or more randomly alternating patrolling routes that would prevent him from bugging out in one place or just getting stuck in a hallway when he encounters the other guard going in the opposite direction

[Anonymous No.6018856]

>>6017772
Because it is not actively recommended on /vr/ and /v/ nor is it mentioned in the 'How to play Thief' image.

[Anonymous No.6018965]

>>6018630
>Forget random patrols, some stealth players think it's unacceptable to ever have instant 180°s
Depends on the stealth game. This is really dumb in Hitman 2: Silent Assassin, where the stealth mode puts you at a movement speed slower than a non-alert patrolling guard, so it is impossible to tail them to knock them out without either abusing sliding (a glitch where rhytmically tapping Run Forward causes you to move fast without making a sound) or getting the drop on them somehow.
Experiences like this make me believe that a guard should stand still for a few seconds before proceeding with patrol mode, or he should telegraph which way he's about to turn so that you can juke his line of sight if you're observant. Or, of course, grant more hiding spots.

[Anonymous No.6019093]

>>6018329
I have been hard on it as well. But I didnt know they were basically closing doors and rushing to finish it. Miracle really. God bless LGS.

Fuck I wish somebody redid Deadly Shadows in the dark engine.

[Anonymous No.6019096]

>>6017772
>GoldToDark

Fuck where is it?

[Anonymous No.6019141]

>>6019096
on the internet

[Plutonia No.6019203]

>>6019093
>Fuck I wish somebody redid Deadly Shadows in the dark engine.
Many years ago I made this sketch, trying to come up with a way to make the linear tutorial mission into something that even remotely resembles the form of an actual building. The most viable progression still follows the linear formula of the tutorial, but it's actually built like a place and not a level. Also instead of tutorial segments having mandatory actions, they are voluntary. It's still easiest to knock out the receptionist to proceed but if you want to challenge yourself it is possible to get by him unseen.

[Anonymous No.6019410]

>>6019203
Too many rooms that are just "enter in, get items, leave out same way", would be too boring.

The other maps later on in the game, like St. Edgar's, would be way more interesting (and could even be a little more fleshed out to make them better). I think some people on TTLG were scared of this being """illegal""" to do though, and I'm not sure myself but I'm sure it wouldn't be THAT bad to try someday.

[Anonymous No.6019426]

>>6019410
I would fucking love to do it or help, but I am struggling with learning dromed first.

Some levels in deadly shadows would be amazing in the dark engine.

[Plutonia No.6019445]

>>6019410
Well, it is basically a hotel and the only other way out of a hotel room would be a window or an air duct. (Which I admit I neglected to add) It was hard enough to find an excuse to give Lord Julian's room a second exit. Also, what makes you think those rooms would have items to take in them? The whole idea of the sketch was to turn what is blatantly a linear videogame level into something resembling a place. Every location shouldn't have an explicit gameplay-serving purpose. If nothing is ever pointless then the world revolves around the player.

[Anonymous No.6019452]

>>6017739
You can just skip it

[Anonymous No.6019460]

>>6017739
How is it unfinished anyways? I'm convinced people who can't figure this mission out are retarded and don't use the compass ever. Lord help you if you never play a FM without a map.

[Anonymous No.6019462]

>>6019460
Its too jank compared to other missions, no wonder it got scrapped.

Its all over the place but I can see where they were going whit it. The first part with the casino is charming.

I mean compare it to Assassins, or The Sword.

[Anonymous No.6019546]

>>6019460
People hate it mostly for the unpredictable servants and the search for the key, bracelet and the that vase can be very tedious

[Anonymous No.6019678]

>>6019445
That's entirely correct. It is beneficial for Thief maps to have places that don't serve any purpose except to just be there. As long as there isn't too many of them, of course.

[Anonymous No.6019685]

>>6019678
I agree its one of the things that make me appreciate Thief level design, hidden loot is well placed.

In a regular game you get out of the beaten path young get a cookie, in Thief when you search beneath the stairs, there is nothing there, what did you expect right? Its just beneath the stairs.

[Anonymous No.6020708]

>>6003396
what do you guys think of this map?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG2-iLYORZY

[Anonymous No.6020750]

>>6020708
Typical Russian trash.

[Anonymous No.6021948]

>>6020708
Looks cool and plays like trash. Author's other missions only push further in both those directions.

[Anonymous No.6022034]

>>6017525
>That counts as an objectively larger quantity of mechanics.
quantity vs quality

Thief only requires you to kill multiple enemies in Return to the Cathedral on the highest skill level, and they are undead hammerite souls you are relieving of eternal torment.

The way you frame and argue it sounds like Thief requires you to kill people willy-nilly all the time, whereas Thief 2 is the paragon of pacifism. It's not. I bet you everyone went completely apeshit killing mechanists the first time they re-visit Karath-Din to get Brother Cavador. Also what are you on about with the high explosives? The only time you have to use one is to break out of the Cathedral, at the literal end of the level.

Thief 1 has superior stealth because there are more enemies and more levels with enemies that have specific conditions to be incapacitated (undead with holy water, explosives or flash bombs) for which you will never have enough equipment to clear out the entire level. 90% of Thief 2 can be comfortably completed blackjacking everything and everyone. You are forced to make use of the stealth mechanics in Thief 1.

[Anonymous No.6022654]

>>6022034
>with enemies that have specific conditions to be incapacitated (undead with holy water, explosives or flash bombs) for which you will never have enough equipment to clear out the entire level.

not that anon but this doesnt involve stealth youre fighting these enemies. Plus thief 2 has things like cameras that you cant fight and have to sneak past. Also, the mechanist machines require the same resource as putting out lights so you have to balence between the two. Plus theif 2 has the scouting orb that helps enhance your sneaking ability.

[Anonymous No.6022848]

>>6022034
>what are you on about with the high explosives?
-You need to detonate 5 fire arrows to get to the Mystic's Soul in Bonehoard in a room with 6 enemies. You will be heard and you will be seen.
-You need to detonate 1 explosive to get to the Keeper grotto in Haunted Cathedral right next to one of the most unpredictable and hardest to sneak through level sections in the franchise. you will be heard and at least put several enemies to maximum alertness.
-You need to blow up the cloister gate in Return to The Cathedral. All that hard work gone to waste.

In Thief 2 there is no section where you ever have to make the enemy aware of your presence. In Deadly Shadows there is one. It doesn't matter that the Mystic's Soul is only acquired on Hard difficulty. There is still an objective quality difference in stealth between the games because in one game stealth is possible and in another it isn't. Oh and by the way your casual mentioning of "quantity vs quality" with no comment as if it means anything was apparently more pointless than you imagined since Thief 2 has an objectively higher quantity of mechanics and an objectively higher quality of stealth.

[Anonymous No.6023072]

>>6022848
>Thief 2 has an objectively higher quantity of mechanics
What would these be? Scouting orbs? Robots? Blackjack immune AIs? Cameras? Some of these were already present in Thief 1 or had a direct counterpart, otherwise the base gameplay is pretty much the same across the games. More mechanics don't necessarily make a game better. Nobody fondly remembers oil flasks, climbing gloves or the lockpicking minigame from Thief 3 despite them being "new" mechanics as well.

>objectively higher quality of stealth.
Only if you go by that autistic definition of what good stealth is. Most missions in Thief 2 are so easy as to be almost trivial (particularly those catering to the ghosting crowd like Framed, Courier and Casing the Joint) and the ones that are actually challenging often felt cheap and poorly designed. Thief 1 made you blow stuff up, and in the end it was a far more memorable and fun gameplay experience than any of its sequels.

[Anonymous No.6023742]

>>6022848
It does matter that it's an objective locked behind difficulty, because the average joe on first couple times through will not encounter a special objective like that. Also your logic is twisted in that you EXPECT to be able to ghost the game, a strategy that was developed long after the release of the game and that isn't an intuitive strategy for the game at all. You are also taking 3 small segments of the game and blow them completely out of proportion.

The game was never meant to be ghosted. You can safely just run past and escape from the zombies in The Mystic's Soul. Also, wouldn't you admit that that trap is a pretty effective way of keeping thieves out, making it impossible for them to go by undetected?

I have never had the problem with the Keeper Grotto that you have described, to be quite frank. I either blackjack the Burricks or time myself for using the fire arrow. The way to the Cathedral and the cathedral itself is absolutel ghostable.

The cloister gate is what you do at the very very end of the mission, so what hard work goes to waste? It's not like the dead are going to call the guardsmen.

Thief 1 has a higher objective quality in stealth in that it puts you in much more difficult situations in which you need to be stealthy (being locked in a cathedral with undead) whereas Thief 2 does not (human enemies, easily dispatchable robots). Thief 2 is great in its way, but it's much lower difficulty tarnishes the stealth mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6023748]

>>6022654
>not that anon but this doesnt involve stealth youre fighting these enemies

Are you an idiot? The fact that you need special equipment often BARS you from fighting them, FORCING you to stealth past them. Human guards that can be blackjacked do NOT force you to stealth.

The cameras in Thief 2 are a joke, and are easily snuck by, and in the most cases can be simply turned off. They are an extra mechanic, but an easily outmaneuvered one.

[Anonymous No.6023758]

>>6020708
nice titties

[Anonymous No.6023891]

>>6023748
>The fact that you need special equipment often BARS you from fighting them

you can buy equipment in the begining of levels to deal with them, and some levels even give you renewable resources. So it is similar to dispatching the machines.

>The cameras in Thief 2 are a joke, and are easily snuck by, and in the most cases can be simply turned off

sure you can turn them off but often you have to find the controls which isnt in the same spot. Also, there are plenty of cameras that are placed in ways that bar you from entry to rooms. Not to mention the gun that will just shoot you if it sees you.

[Anonymous No.6024016]

>>6023742
Nobody is talking about ghosting. In a stealth game your first priority is to remain undetected. In Thief your second priority is to not kill anyone. Only if you really want to challenge yourself should you add avoiding all violence on top of staying undetected. That is ghosting, and nobody expects the games to be designed to support it. Which is why they aren't. Hell, Thieves' Guild has at least 3 mandatory knockouts. You are expected to knock out some people and in several missions you have to. But you seem to think it that a stealth game should compromise in another area it seems. In the area of stealth. No.

And not "No, I don't think so" I mean "Wrong." You can compromise on non-violence because it doesn't affect you. You cannot compromise on stealth because it's a bell that cannot be un-rung. Once you're seen you can't just make your perceiver forget. Nor can you heal Garrett's ego, the only reason why avoids murder in the first place. And that's why Thief 1's stealth is objectively worse. It doesn't have "more difficult situations". It has impossible situations. It is not possible to maintain the prerequisite of stealth gameplay when you are forced to use explosives near enemies that you cannot stealthily incapacitate prior to using said explosives. And I don't even want to speculate on the astronomical improbability of all the aggroed hammerites not being near the training room once you leave the basement in Undercover after LITERALLY SOUNDING THE ALARM WITH NO OPTION NOT TO. -Though I suppose you could just knock out everyone in the building without anyone noticing so there's no one left to attack you. Now that's what I call compromising non-violence for the sake of stealth.

[Anonymous No.6024918]

>>6008042
>https://voca.ro/mO0ADwdlb2J
Nice drawing! I remember being a little 9 year old fuck making dozens of those hammers for no reason.

[Anonymous No.6024932]

Is Undercover a good mission or not? I remember being frustrated at the mission objectives few years ago.

[Anonymous No.6025013]

>>6024932
It's a great mission even though I hate the unavoidable alarm at the end it's nice to have the variety of a disguise mechanic. You just need to learn a whole new set of rules on what you can do, since stealing very specific items but not others will cause suspicion and even just being seen looking at some things will cause them to raise the alarm. It's a mission where ghosting is impossible but its rules mean that you need to very strategically use your blackjack. If you succeed, you can get through without ever being attacked despite the alarm.

[Anonymous No.6025396]

VR Thief when?

[Anonymous No.6025423]

>>6024932
Yes. Anyone whinging about it is a basedboy or retard.

[Anonymous No.6025573]

>>6024016
Thief 1 is not a stealth game. It's a game about a character who happens to be a thief and uses his skills to his advantage in the most diverse situations. The point of the game is not roleplaying the ego of Garrett. I couldn't care less about the ego of Garrett or the ego of butthurt players who play "a stealth game" instead of Thief: The Dark Project. I chose not to kill any person even on the normal difficulty, because of how believable they were designed, and I felt it improper to kill a guard who had done me nothing wrong. And I would choose the explosives and and the undead and the unavoidable alarms and all the other emergent gameplay situations any day over the ad nauseam formulaistic "stealth" and "master thief" wankery of Thief 2, where every location and every enemy placement is deliberately screaming "look at me, I'm here so that you can exercise your stealth on me"

[Anonymous No.6025583]

I mean the alarm is Cragscleft is avoidable, so what? Who would want to sacrifice the fun of letting all the prisoners out, sounding the alarm and playing the rest of the level in the chaotic atmosphere of a prison break over some dubious stealth gameplay? Only boring people.

[Anonymous No.6025737]

>>6025573
>Thief 1 is not a stealth game
wut

[Anonymous No.6025909]

>>6024016
>LITERALLY SOUNDING THE ALARM WITH NO OPTION NOT TO.
Life of the Party does something similar. I know there's a way to turn it off but it's so well hidden and in such a random location that I doubt most players ever knew about it. The only reason I found it is because I read about it online.

[Anonymous No.6025947]

If there is a flaw in Thief 1 and 2, or well the dark engine is the terrible models. Helps in ss2 in a weird way

But man I would love for guards to have the ability to just walk around with sheathed swords, and draw them when alert.

[Anonymous No.6025965]

>>6024016
>Once you're seen you can't just make your perceiver forget

And yet you can still sneak by a guard that has seen you once and he will not notice you if you adjust for his heightened sense of alert, which is where the stealth gameplay is great and varied in the Thief games.

You say you're not talking about ghosting, but you are. Stealth in Thief is not just about going undetected 100% of the time, it's also about having CONTINGENCY PLANS. What do you do when you're caught? Flashbomb, Blackjack? Speed Potion? Lethal option? You could argue that having to plan for such contingency varies and heightens the quality of the stealth mechanics much more rather than always having the option of being able to go completely undetected.

Which brings me to Undercover: Undercover is quite clearly a mission that is designed to be incredibly difficult to manage, even on Normal difficulty. It's your worst nightmare: tiled floor and light almost everywhere, loot requirement and desire for loot that forces you to go into heavily guarded sections that will oust your disguise. It's the only mission that switches up the stealth mechanics to "hiding in plain sight" by blending, something that Thief 2 doesn't have. The hammerite guard system is just actually quite smartly designed to sound without an option to be able to shut it off. They're hiding 2 of the keys to the fucking zombie apocalypse after all, and you're trying to steal them. So what's your contigency plan for when the jig is finally up? The mission has loads to offer: gas arrow, gas mines, flashbombs, taking a detour through the basement/crypts, just straight up fleeing through the front door.

And then, like the other anon said, Thief 2 does something similar to you in Life of the Party. Because I didn't know about it, I, like thousands of others very likely, had to take the alert route in that mission.

[Anonymous No.6025972]

>>6025965
Undercover is proto hitman in a way. I love just to chilax in that mission before doing the objectives. Thief 2 lacks one.

[Anonymous No.6025973]

>you can buy equipment in the begining of levels to deal with them, and some levels even give you renewable resources.

The equipment you can buy is scarce, especially on the higher difficulties, and the only time you can renew your resources are fire arrows in the Gold version of the game, and if you decide to waste water arrows on them. The Fire Spirits are only there to give you extra fire arrows to light the torches for the extra objectives, not for ammo. So no, the undead enemies are not in fact the same or even similar to the robots or human guards.

> sure you can turn them off but often you have to find the controls which isnt in the same spot

And in over half the cases the control for the cameras is right next to them, or similarly obviously placed and easily accessible, and sneaking past them is not in the least bit difficult since they switch down from yellow alert quite easily and take a long time to detect you if you use even a modicum of stealth. They aren't a real challenge.

[Anonymous No.6025978]

>>6025972
The Executive Producer of Hitman pushed for open ended level design and stealth after experience with Thief and Deus Ex.

[Anonymous No.6025979]

>>6025978
Yes I know. Thief is kinda obscure darling, but its a seed game, its waves are felt in every single game afterwards.

[Anonymous No.6026913]

>>6025737
this part is kinda true theif 1 isnt just a stealth game. Levela like boneyard are more about dungeon delving than stealth.

>>6025973
damn anon am i that lowly to you that you wont even reply to me. Also, sure the equipment is scarse, and you do get flooded with equipment in theif 2. I dont think were going to agree on anything honestly. I dont think the cameras are trivial or that they should be writen off. Plus they are still an extra layer of complexity for stealth. Also, i think having to balnce water arrows for putting out lights, and the machines is similar to only having scarse objects for the other enemies you actually need to sneak by.

>>6025965
>>6025972
undercover is one of my favorite thief 1 missions. Its a shame they never got to make its thief 2 equivlent.

[Anonymous No.6026992]

>>6025583
That's one of the most important aspects of an immersive sim. Options. Cragscleft lets you do all sorts of things that you don't need to do, because it makes sense that you should be logically capable of doing them. So you can cause chaos by releasing the prisoners. You can lure zombies to hammerites and watch them fight. You can pour metal into molds to smelt hammers. But most importantly... you don't have to. That's why Cragscleft is a great mission.
webm ironic

[Anonymous No.6027028]

>>6026913
>theif 1 isnt just a stealth game
That's just stealth games in general. Splinter Cell, MGS, Hitman, Manhunt all have some not-so-stealthy parts

[Anonymous No.6027419]

Every single mission of Thief TDP and 2 reimagined toady in a powerful engine with unlimited money would be fucking amazing. The concepts are all there held back by old tech. And DS by consoles with zero ram.

But still what it accomplished was fucking incredible.

[Anonymous No.6027446]

Has anoyne tried this? I have no mic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxIYNG4TQ7U

[Anonymous No.6028664]

>>6027446
he sounds like a twelve year old but looks like a registered sex offender

[Anonymous No.6029472]

I'm thinking of creating a new "so you want to play some fucking thief" guide, but updated with new missions and without the "praised but actually quite flawed" missions like Calendra's Legacy.

I was also thinking of grouping the missions somewhat, like putting skacky's all together and under his name.

I'm also pretty sure that we can eliminate most FMs that piss anons off while still having a good number from all the new ones.

Any tips or suggestions from anons?

[Anonymous No.6029958]

>>6029472
That sounds like a good idea. A lot of the FMs on the lists aren't actually all that great, mostly to be enjoyed for the most hardcore of fans. Incidentally, does anyone else have the problem that Darkloader wants to load the T20th anniversary missions into Thief 2 instead of Thief Gold? Nothing seems to fix that for me.

[Anonymous No.6030818]

>>6029958
Stop using fucking darkloader holyshit just use fmsel or even fengaynix's angel loader thing but please stop that

>>6029472
I think a lot of the missions on the original here were fine, but there are some retarded listings. Shit like Sepulchre of the Sinestral, Mission X, Trail of Blood 2 and so on should fuck right off.

[Anonymous No.6031153]

>>6030818
its because of retards like you that this list is fucking shit. You dont have an issue with the host of generic city missions that take up most of the list but SoS should go? Fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.6031457]

>>6031153
Cry all you want but SoS is a fucking dogshit slog of a mission that's nothing like thief. Don't even try the "b-but muh bonehoard!" bullshit cause that's not an excuse to shit in the face of everything that makes up Thief's design philosophy.

I'd rather take a "generic" city mission, which almost none of them are by the way, over that any day of the week. Keep shitting your pants over city missions.

[Anonymous No.6031470]

>>6031153
Cry all you want but SoS is a fucking dogshit slog of a mission that's not fun in anyway shape or form. Don't even try the "b-but muh bonehoard on steroids!" bullshit cause that's not a good thing.

I'd rather take a "generic" city mission, which almost none of them are by the way, over that any day of the week. Keep shitting your pants over city missions.

[Anonymous No.6031504]

>>6031153
>>6031470
you can each make your own list and i will continue to not play the missions on either

[Anonymous No.6032421]

>>6031153
>>6031470
>>6031504
^ literally not even a bad idea.
Break the lists up by theme. City, Magic, Joke, etc...

[Anonymous No.6032769]

>>6010004
nice