/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5989750]

holy shit, what a gigantic turd, i am so fucking glad it is over

[Anonymous No.5989794]

Truly a fucking terrible game. Even worse than 8

[Anonymous No.5989809]

>>>/v/
Final Fantasy 2 is bad though.

[Anonymous No.5989943]

Is there any "fixed" version with a more reasonable level up system?

[Anonymous No.5989969]

>>5989750
>i didnt like a game that is widely disliked
Okay.

[Anonymous No.5989974]

>>5989969
Not every thread has to be a contrarian fishing for (You)s, maybe we can discuss what made the game so bad, what's the good stuff, and how it could have been improved

[Anonymous No.5989990]

>>5989974
Start a thread with that next time instead of saying the same thing that's been said for the last 30 years.

[Anonymous No.5989992]

>>5989943
yes you can do it, but you might as well hack it anyways. check romhacking the site for patches and fixes.

[Anonymous No.5990596]

HELP, I CANT STOP HITTING MYSELF

[Anonymous No.5990673]

>>5989750
>game everyone agrees that it's shit is shit
How come /sci/ doesn't get posts about gravity being a thing?

[Anonymous No.5990685]

>>5989943
The levelling system is reasonable.
Perhaps once you'll start using your head instead of listening to internet memes you'll understand.
The game's problem isn't the levelling system, is that, like all final fantasy, it's a rushed game with massive balance problems and a shitload of bugs, which modern remakes fix either way.
The post origin ports also boost enemy EXP and remove stat malus on growth to make the game even easier than it already is but people are still too stupid to understand the logic behind the entire growth system and still pretend hitting your own party members is functional.

[Anonymous No.5990686]

>>5989750
let me guess, you put all three characters in the front row and gave them all magic and turned them into three really shitty red mages instead of specializing
you also didn't bother raising your evasion

[Anonymous No.5991313]

>>5989943
ps1

[Anonymous No.5992814]

>>5989943
The PS1 version unfucked some of it but ultimately it just doesn't really work

When the best way to level up is attacking your own characters you start to wonder if Square's financial troubles in the 80s might have been their own fault

[Anonymous No.5992820]

>>5992814
I never attacked myself to win. The absolute state of the average FF player.

[Anonymous No.5992824]

>>5992820
It drastically shortens the grinding time from what I remember

[Anonymous No.5992860]

>>5990685
Every word of this

[Anonymous No.5993818]

>>5992824
>It drastically shortens the grinding time
It doesn't, it never, ever does at any point of the game.
You want to know why? Because undeads exist, and undeads' melee saps HP in plain percentages that ignore defenses and are calculated based on your static HP value.
This is why characters with high base HP growth such as Guy are much more vulnerable to Undeads than character like Maria, the higher your HP the bigger the damage, and the harder it is to cure your high HP characters.
Coincidentially, your HP growth chances are calculated on HP loss during battles.

Now, the average FF player has demonstrated throughout over three decades that he/she simply lacks the common sense and basic math to not only notice this very evident game mechanic, they also failed to understand what that means when it comes to HP grind (which is the only thing hitting yourself is supposed to do in the best case scenario).
The average FF player therefore goes on the internet, unable to wrap their head around why their characters keep dying like bitches to basic encounters, and he/she stumbles upon the various sites of likeminded morons like Gamefaqs, Kotaku, or the videogame boards of 4Channel™.
Idiot among idiots, the FF players begin to absorb his peers' idiocy throughout the years, incapable of developing any sort of critical thought or personal curiosity, they're trained to believe that FF2's mechanics don't make any sense and that you should abuse an ancient ass oversight that doesn't work and isn't even needed in the first place because anyone with two neurons to rub together already understand just how busted basic spells are.

This is also without considering being utterly incapable of building characters in the series' entry with the most indepth customization, because of their pavlovian conditioning into believing all characters should be able to do everything well and that machinegunning A/X/O to see the next cutscene is the epithome of RPG gameplay.

[Anonymous No.5993861]

>>5993818
Fuck FF2 I didn't read of single word of this shit

[Anonymous No.5993908]

>>5993818
Just ignore them, man. These people never learn.

Anyway here's a pic of my endgame god build from a solo magic-only run I did last year. Equipment is ribbon and black robe.

[Anonymous No.5993960]

>>5993908
>both evasions 16-90something%
see kids this is how you break the game

[Anonymous No.5993965]

>>5993960
The only way to play this piece of shit game is to break it

[Anonymous No.5993968]

I actually thought FF2 was the best FF game...Not even joking. Only one I enjoyed. The rest were shit.

[Anonymous No.5993971]

I like the plot, story and characters. The leveling system if kinda interesting and different for the time. I enjoy playing this once in a while.

[Anonymous No.5993972]

I only ever finished the GBA port, but I found the game to be fun. It's a shame how much the "dude just hit yourself xD" meme has caused people to approach this game in such a stupid way that they play it poorly and then get mad that it doesn't work out.
Iirc hitting yourself ONLY raises HP, so your actual important stats stay pathetic.

[Anonymous No.5993996]

>>>5993908
cheeky name.
>>5993960
FF2 is broken in so many ways you don't even need to raise your evasion,

[Anonymous No.5993998]

>>5993960
You can get both to 16-99% with the agility bonus from the thief gloves pushing you up to 109 agility, but their magic accuracy penalty makes it not worth it. Sure looks cool in the status screen, though.

Another option would be to raise vitality and magic enough to hit 99% magic defense without needing gear that lowers evasion, but it takes too long to grind them. Ribbon and black robe are worth equipping anyway for their resistances and int bonus, respectively.

[Anonymous No.5994004]

what's the best version of FFII?

[Anonymous No.5994008]

>>5994004
The one where you delete the rom and empty your recycle bin

[Anonymous No.5994010]

>>5994004
PS origins port

[Anonymous No.5994212]

>>5989943
>>5990685
The game would be a lot less frustrating if it ever bothered to explain shit like its equivalent of an armor check penalty and the general nature of the growth system. It's really really not intuitive at all without a lot of trial and error. I had no issues at all once I read an FAQ that explained it. No need for the attack-cancel bug either

[Anonymous No.5994791]

>>5994212
No FF is intuitive, I don't know why this would be an issue with two. Whatever build you follow you will win anyway.

>>5993818
Screencaped.

[Anonymous No.5994818]

I always had a weird fondness for FF2 but I also have the same feeling for SaGa which is just what FF2 became. I kind of just saw it as a strange game that has a few things that Morrowind happen to put in and keep it as that.

The problem with FF2 mostly is that it doesn't really do a good job at explaining it's system nor give you any info that you should know like gear weight. Or dungeon design where there are rooms just made to let you grind faster.

Still think it's better than FF3 but I really hate FF3.

[Anonymous No.5994984]

>>5994818
It's genuinely ambitious as fuck for its time

[Anonymous No.5994995]

>>5994984
For sure. As I said you can kind of think of it as just a extremely simplized Morrowind in a few ways. From the way leveling works, key words selection with NPC, maybe not crafting spells but the way spells are pretty crazy in the way you can use them. It's one hell of a game considering it was on the NES.

[Anonymous No.5995001]

>>5994818
This is its real biggest sin, for a game with such weird unintuitive mechanics, it sure does an awful job introducing them to you

[Anonymous No.5995056]

>>5994818
>>5995001
honestly I'm not sure even the devs knew how to play the game, considering how awful the builds on the guest characters tend to be

[Anonymous No.5995450]

>>5994818
>The problem with FF2 mostly is that it doesn't really do a good job at explaining it's system
First off, you are supposed to read the manual for that, this is a NES games, in game tutorials, especially for RPGs, were nonexistent at the time.
FF1 was the same, nobody tells you that you can get advanced classes and how, nobody tells you what exactly spells like Sabre do, nor how rows work, even something as basic as seeing your map was gated behind a riddle (an anathema for today's designers), FF2 isn't any different.
Secondly, we're talking about a game made by Kawazu, in his AD&D phase, and a very fervent believer of the ivory tower way of making games, just to quote him on that:

https://retronauts.com/article/670/akitoshi-kawazu-on-the-reasoning-behind-sagas-insanity
>AK: The fun in an RPG begins when you create a character, in my mind. I didn't feel the need to have a suggested party at the beginning for clearing the game.
>I wanted people to be all Black Mages or all Warriors if they wanted. But back then... In those days, people didn't think that deeply about that kind of thing, either. It wasn't just us. Everyone was sort of like that.
>The idea was to just let people figure things out. If you make a party of all White Mages, you probably can't clear the game, but we weren't really worried about that affecting the balance or anything like that.

All of his games are known to be like that, he's one of the few devs who believes players are intelligent enough to learn mechanics on their own.
And now, granted that FF2 was rushed, buggy as hell and that it was the first original system Kawazu designed and he bit a lot more than he could chew on the mechanics, these complaints are pretty out of place because again, this was not only the standard for the time, but you were also supposed to learn the basics from the game manual, which just doesn't happen in the retro environment where everyone emulates, especially when people emulate JP only games.

[Anonymous No.5995506]

>>5993996
How to break FF2: Equip the blood sword. Will kill anything with a pulse in two hits.

[Anonymous No.5995542]

>>5989750
what's the problem? I never understood the hate. it looks really cool, Firion and the others are based. Sure there is shit backtracking and some bullshit mechanics but still. I've seen worse. granted I might sound like a casual but I dropped the game when the difficulty spikes once you go into the vortex and into hell. that was some wizardry bullshit. felt the same way about 4 when you land on the moon. felt too tough and not fun anymore.

[Anonymous No.5995554]

>>5995506
>Will kill anything with a pulse in two hits.
That's factually wrong. The blood sword deals 1/16 of the target's max hp per hit, so it takes 16 hits to kill anything. It has zero accuracy, so you need high strength to boost your natural accuracy bonus enough to hit anything. It also has the highest magic accuracy penalty of any weapon in the game, making it only useful for an attack spammer, and no evasion bonus.

There's no doubt that it's overpowered against bosses, but using it effectively forces you to limit your build to a one-dimensional sword and board spammer.

[Anonymous No.5995598]

>all these people itt complaining that the game doesn't explain itself to the player
There's nothing wrong with being brand new to retro games, and it's not fair for anyone to expect you to know this because modern games don't come with instruction manuals, but I'm still gonna say it: read the fucking instruction manual, goddamn!

[Anonymous No.5995632]

Kawazu's approach to game design isn't to throw shit at a wall and see what sticks, it's just to throw shit at a wall.

[Anonymous No.5995651]

>>5989750
all of the nes ffs are like this

[Anonymous No.5995763]

>>5995598
>>5995450
The (Famicom ver.) instruction manual is missing important information like the existence of armor penalties. And it even has a mistake in the section about stat increase/decrease (though it's fairly obvious it's a mistake so likely didn't mislead too many people).

[Anonymous No.5995782]

its saga game not ff

[Anonymous No.5995857]

I didn't find FF2 difficult. I just didn't find it fun.
The growth system means that playing efficiently (ending battles quickly, limiting MP use, healing outside of battle) keeps your characters weaker, which feels bad. MP growth in particular is poor if fighting efficiently, which leads to frequent trips in and out of dungeons to recharge, made all the worse by the significant number of dungeons with teleport disabled.
It also encourages extreme specialization in weapon & spell use, making your characters more one-note than FF1.
And not even the biggest FF2 fan can defend Esuna-leveling.

[Anonymous No.5996526]

>>5995554
Per hit as in a normal attack, if you're not doing 10 hits by the endgame, play something else.