What is the appeal of Dungeon Crawlers?

[Anonymous No.5978180]

I can't get into these games.

[Anonymous No.5978182]

>>5978180
Closest thing to playing a tabletop game for friendless losers like me.

[Anonymous No.5978185]

Back in the day it was a neat way to create a pseudo 3D version of traditional tabletop RPG dungeons. The orthogonal geometry lent itself well to the technical limitations of computers.

[Anonymous No.5978186]

Challenge. You have to explore and navigate mazes and fight off monsters with limited resources.

[Anonymous No.5978187]

>>5978185
Table talk can't really give you the same experience as first person computer games. You are always just an observer or listener and never truly immersed.

[Anonymous No.5978212]

>>5978187
Oh yeah definitely. I'm just saying that it helps appreciate the genre more if you understand where the context is coming from.

[Anonymous No.5978292]

>>5978180
There are different kinds of dungeon crawlers, as the appeal really varies from people to people. For some, like to >>5978186, a challenge is the main drive (combat, fiddling with various mechanics, overcoming obstacles), some people really like exploration (mapping, discovering secrets), some people like immersion, some likes puzzles, etc. As >>5978182 and >>5978185 already pointed out, this genre kind of replicates the appeal of dungeon crawling from tabletop games, minus the social element and creative input.

You don't have to force yourself to like them if you feel like it's not your thing. I'm personally not a big fan of classical dungeon crawling in tabletop games, but there are still some dungeon crawlers that I genuinely liked. It is a rather diverse genre, so there is a chance that something will stick with you.

You may try something more or less accessible like Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, Might and Magic VII, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, or Lands of Lore. Also, not retro, but Legend of Grimrock and The Quest are rather neat, and there are a ton of weeb dungeon crawlers from Japan if that's your thing, like Etrian Odyssey, Labyrinth of Touhou, Strange Journey and mainline SMT in general. A lot of those Japanese games a rather shallow Wizardry clones, but there are some really challenging and interesting ones (Elminage Gothic or Stranger of the Sword City, for example).

Anyway, try different kinds of dungeon crawlers to find out if there's a niche for you.

[Anonymous No.5978294]

>>5978180
me neither. I tried Legend of Grimrock and played a few hours of Elminage Original and even tried several Wizardry titles. still can't play for too long.

[Anonymous No.5978368]

>>5978180
Treasure hunting. "Treasure" meaning interesting ideas. You explore your way around, stimble upon some setup, complete it employing mechanics in some way you haven't before, get awesome loot - but the real reward is you realizing you did sonething you haven't ever done before in order to get that awesome loot to begin with. Think of them as of exploration puzzle games with a metric ton of optional content. A dungeon crawler without optional shit is no dungeon crawler at all, as there is no point to "crawl".

[Anonymous No.5978375]

>>5978180
classic 8bit crawlers have so much charm and are always really comfy. I couldnt get into the newer games like grimrock, but really love looking at and playing limited-by-the-hardware dungeon crawlers

[Anonymous No.5978436]

>>5978180
IT'S A GENRE FOR BIG COCKED ELDERBULLS, AND NOT TINY PEEPEE KEKBABIES

[Anonymous No.5978437]

>>5978180
Moraff's world
>>5978182
Roll20

[Anonymous No.5978709]

>>5978180
What is the appeal of OP?

[Anonymous No.5978769]

>>5978180
I unironically love getting hopelessly lost and blundering into an inevitable death over and over again. If I manage to find a cool sword and chop up some orcs along the way then great.

[Anonymous No.5979089]

>>5978437
>Seriously suggesting Roll20 to anyone

[Anonymous No.5979104]

>>5978180
The point is to not watch porn as a kid but do something else

[Anonymous No.5979128]

>>5979104
How do pornographic Dungeon Crawlers fall into that?

[Anonymous No.5979129]

>>5978292
just going to put you straight there anon, your post is mostly nice but don't ever recommend The Quest to anyone

[Anonymous No.5979132]

>>5978180
They're just fun, naturally depending on what you like in a dungeon crawler you're gonna lean towards one style or another. I'm not a huge fan of M&M since I don't really like the combat mechanics, but I love gold box and wizardry

>>5978769
my negro
I still think the best possible setting is a single town or castle that you're dungeon delving either in or near

[Anonymous No.5979138]

>>5979128
They fall under subverted expectations

[Anonymous No.5979197]

>>5978769
That was always the appeal for me:
a) how deep can you go
b) can you make it back out?

As simple as shinging in the darkness was, it was the most comfy dungeoncrawl for me. It wasnt as brutally difficult as some of the WRPGs at the time, but returning to town and finding news shops open up, or new characters in the tavern. It just just such a comfy town.

[Anonymous No.5979334]

ive never played a dungeon crawler in my life and this thread makes me think they look kinda fun, can anyone recommend something cool to get into the genre?

[Anonymous No.5979358]

>>5979334
You're not missing much to be sure.

[Anonymous No.5979373]

sapes

[Anonymous No.5979452]

>>5979334
Wizardry 1 on PC 98

[Anonymous No.5979541]

>>5979334
First can you give a little background? I'd argue something like "Eye of the Beholder" or "Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei" would be good intros to both western and eastern dungeon crawlers respectively due to their relative ease and player friendliness, Shining in the Darkness could also be a good choice, and is even easier.

If you want to play influential dungeon crawlers somewhat chronologically I recommend the Super Famicom remakes of the first three "Wizardry" titles, although they are often unforgiving and a bit more obtuse.

[Anonymous No.5979684]

It's a fun little gameplay loop, with a mix of survival and combat focused RPG stuff.

Ultima Underworld 1 is the best dungeon crawler of all time. FIGHT ME

[Anonymous No.5979698]

>>5978180
fun autistic min max combat
if you want to save the farmer's daughter and get a ring as reward then fuck off this isn't for the sims lovers

[Anonymous No.5979709]

>>5979334
Might and Magic 3 is practically for babies.
Might and Magic 1 if you want an acceptable challenge.

[Anonymous No.5979747]

Dunno but those are the only rpgs I seem to enjoy nowadays and I can't even articulate the appeal myself. It's probably something like >>5979698 . They're mostly 100% gameplay focused, you're constantly making maps, finding secrets, managing your resources and so on.

[Anonymous No.5979753]

You get to explore nasty, mysterious dungeons with your party of bros, genocide inhuman monstrosities, loot treasures and have a jolly good time.
What's not to like?

[Anonymous No.5979756]

>>5979197
>can you make it back out?
There's definitely something to be said for games that lack exit-the-dungeon teleport spells.

[Anonymous No.5979867]

>>5979129
I used to play it a long time ago on my Windows Mobile PDA and really loved it. Combat is simplistic, but I found exploration and quests to be entertaining. Plus it has a neat editor, and I have a soft spot for those.

It's not great in any capacity, but very entertaining at the very least.

[Anonymous No.5979891]

I'm sorry RPGs have to be story-heavy bullshit games like fucking Final Fantasy for you, anon. You're missing out by closing yourself off to fucking /tv/shit.

[Anonymous No.5979960]

Making maps as you go along (or revealing them) and checking every nook and cranny for treasure.

[Anonymous No.5980045]

I don't get why the interface and the controls are always so clunky and the graphics so ugly, usually badly drawn sprites or fucking digitized people in cheap costumes with crappy 3D renders.
Those games feel too amateurish made.

I'm tired of anime and Japanese RPGs, but at least they look decent and feel more like actual games and not like something put together by some basement-dwelling nerds obsessed with D&D.

I want a mix of both. A japanese-made D&D dungeon-based RPG with western designs but nice Japanese art like Capcom D&D games and an interface that is not a complete clusterfuck.

[Anonymous No.5980059]

>>5980045
Monsters should be text only and dungeons wire frame.

>A japanese-made D&D dungeon-based RPG with western designs but nice Japanese art like Capcom D&D games and an interface that is not a complete clusterfuck.
There's a dozen Japanese made Wizardry games.

[Anonymous No.5980067]

>>5978182
Look at this fucking eyesore. And every single game in this series look like ass.
I'm okay with the character designs, but the art is atrocious.

[Anonymous No.5980087]

>>5980045
>I don't get why the interface and the controls are always so clunky
Because shit like Wizardry and Akalabeth are 40 years old? Why change what the core fans were used to.
>not like something put together by some basement-dwelling nerds obsessed with D&D
Stick to your weeb trash if you want to bash the roots. The genre essentially started as putting what was on paper onto a screen.(by basement dwelling nerds obsessed with D&D)

[Anonymous No.5980089]

>>5980087
Wizardry changed the interface in 6 and it was for the worse.

[Anonymous No.5980093]

>>5978180
Play the ones that don't have grid-based movement, like Ultima Underworld, King's Field or Arx Fatalis.
>>5980067
Yeah, visually Might and Magic is the video game equivalent of those old cheesy fantasy book covers.

[Anonymous No.5980094]

>>5979334
Etrian Odyssey on NDS (any of them, really and a sweet kickstart into the genre)
Elminage Original on PSP
Wizardry Tales of Forsaken Land or whatever it's called on PS2
Wizardry 8 on PC
Legend of Grimrock on PC
Any Might and Magic PC title

[Anonymous No.5980097]

>>5979334
Stonekeep. Can get you used to grid based movement but combat is in real time and fairly forgiving.

[Anonymous No.5980113]

>>5979334
Depends on what RPG you enjoy. Japanese honestly love their dungeon crawlers and does a great job giving enough safety net while still being fairly though so don't dismiss Japanese version as being kiddy versions over their western counterpart.

JRPG Phantasy Star 1 does an alright job giving a simple dungeon crawling experience while giving a JRPG like structure. If you have a Switch there's a nice version of it that even has auto mapping if you don't want to make your own or want to look up it (and people are going to yell at me for talking about auto mapping).

Etrian Odyssey has nice anime look to it while being more of a pure dungeon crawler. Bottom screen is built to map your own map and it's actually really fast and enjoyable.

WRPG fan look towards Wizardry 8 which many people think is the best in the series.

Might and Magic series are really well done. They don't really do many "bullshit" so pretty good for newcomers.

There are also some that adds more of a timer to the combat like with Legend of Grimrock or Lands of Lore but for some reason I personally never been much of a fan of them. But you might find them more enjoyable than I do.

[Anonymous No.5980129]

Kind of a zoomer question maybe but... I like to use my tablet for game guides and wikis sometimes. Is there a good graph paper replacement app for mapping dungeon crawlers?

[Anonymous No.5980138]

How do you guys think about stonekeep? I love absolutely everything about this game except gameplay itself.

[Anonymous No.5980148]

>>5980045
try Stranger of Sword City

[Anonymous No.5980157]

>>5980113
>RPG Phantasy Star 1 does an alright job giving a simple dungeon crawling experience while giving a JRPG like structure. If you have a Switch there's a nice version of it that even has auto mapping if you don't want to make your own or want to look up it (and people are going to yell at me for talking about auto mapping).
There's also an Android app specifically for manually mapping Phantasy Star. I used that last time I played.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.evertree.psmaps&hl=en_US

[Anonymous No.5980165]

>>5980157
I'm playing through phantasy star right now and immediately downloaded the app.
>last updated 2012
>arbitrarily dependent on a hardware feature not common any more

[Anonymous No.5980260]

>>5980045
There's tons of nip Dungeon Crawlers

[Anonymous No.5980315]

>>5980165
welp

[Anonymous No.5980469]

>>5980138
>>5980097 is me.

[Anonymous No.5980476]

I like SMT: Strange Journey and Arcana for SNES. What are some other good dungeon crawlers?

[Anonymous No.5980490]

>>5980476
>What are some other good dungeon crawlers?
Wizardry 1-3, emulate the SNES or PSX version since it has the first 3 games as 1
Wizardry 6-8
Might and Magic 1-5, though these games aren't that complicated
Phantasy Star I-IV
All of the Gold Box games, though these are a bit different since combat turns into an isometric turn based affair, but dungeon delving is all first person
If you want real time, Ultima Underworld, Dungeon Master, Anvil of Dawn, Eye of the Beholder

Non-Retro:
You're basically stuck with japanese games here since they're the only people that make crawlers anymore
Elminage Original and Gothic
Dark Spire
Etrian Odessy
Grimoire

[Anonymous No.5980579]

>>5980490
Why are you skipping Wizardry V?

>Might and Magic 1-5, though these games aren't that complicated
That's mainly 3-5. 1 is closer to Wizardry and 2 is bonkers with its numeric values.

[Anonymous No.5980682]

>>5980113
>They don't really do many "bullshit" so pretty good for newcomers.

Which ones in the series are you talking about? In M&M2, right off the bat, you'll encounter battles that are impossible to win.

[Princess Sevenleaf !IT2uZpX.Ic No.5980952]

Traditional tabletop dungeon crawlers were a way to simulate the experience of exploring the abandoned utility tunnels under your town, but y'all ain't ready to have that conversation

[Anonymous No.5980972]

>>5980093
>EDITED BY SAM LEWIS
but who wrote it? and what's with the tranny legs

[Anonymous No.5980980]

>>5980094
Etrian Odyssey looks pretty good except for having to play as a bunch of 10 year olds

[Anonymous No.5980983]

>>5980952
post feet

[Anonymous No.5980984]

>>5980980
there's always a variety of young and old to choose from for each class, and FYI there is only one actual teen (fem Hexer)

[Princess Sevenleaf !IT2uZpX.Ic No.5981000]

>>5980983
Paypal me $20 and I'll sell you feet pics

[Anonymous No.5981007]

>>5981000

[Anonymous No.5981020]

>>5978180
Simplistic dungeon crawlers are meh, the real meat is in games like Might and Magic 3 where the perspective is used to create memorable large open worlds. The details on dungeons aren't that great due to limitations but the worldbuilding helps your imagination "complete" their details and fill in the gaps.

[Anonymous No.5981564]

>>5980490
Couldn't grimoire be considered pseudo-retro or something?

[Anonymous No.5981725]

>>5980138
My fav game of all time. Still nothing that plays like it (the combination of grid-based movement and real-time combat using the mouse to aim as opposed to clicking an icon) Eternally mad that Black Isle and subsequently Stonekeep 2 went under.

[Anonymous No.5981749]

>>5980490
>Grimoire
It's all nice and sweet, but can you ride on turtles in there?

[Anonymous No.5981761]

>>5980476
Arcana is absolute garbage, but excellent taste with Strange Journey. If you like that you absolutely must go for the earlier Megami Tensei titles. I recommend starting with Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei, it is strangely overlooked despite being a solid set of remakes for the famicom Megami Tensei Titles, easily rivaling the Super Famicom Remakes of Dragon Quest I & II, as well as Wizardry I II & III (Which you should also check out)

[Anonymous No.5981820]

>>5981761
Whats wrong with arcana?

[Anonymous No.5981889]

>>5981820
I find it dull, repetitive, and shallow, while also being too easy. I think the art direction is poor, and the pacing is painfully slow. Map design is mediocre and hampered by a high encounter rate.

[Anonymous No.5981902]

>>5978180
Same feeling I get when I fuck your mom.

[Anonymous No.5982145]

>>5981725
IIRC Stonekeep's development was long, messy, and expensive, and on top of that, sales were not satisfying (the latter is partly because Ultima Underworld was released roughly at the same time), so no wonder that executives didn't want to continue with the franchise.

[Anonymous No.5982256]

>>5980682
I'm mostly talking about turn table that can mess up your mapping or sudden death traps. Fair level balance wasn't really a thing back than.

[Anonymous No.5982268]

>>5982145
stonekeep was so shit. so much hype and no actual gameplay

[Anonymous No.5982270]

>>5978294
This. Things like architecture or the same puzzle repeated for the hundredth time are way too samey for me to enjoy them for too long. There's really nothing to "explore" because all the hallways are copy pasted versions of themselves.

[Anonymous No.5982272]

>>5981902
You are being immature.

[Anonymous No.5982275]

>>5981761
it is strangely overlooked despite being a solid set of remakes for the famicom Megami Tensei Titles
Feel that's mostly because people just see SMT as taking MT and improving it. Also since Kyuuyaku was only "recently" (feel more and more people just stop looking into new SNES fan translations as the years go by) translated few people actually tried it out.

[Anonymous No.5982648]

>>5981749
Only one way to find out anon.

[Anonymous No.5982827]

>>5980045
>A japanese-made D&D dungeon-based RPG with western designs but nice Japanese art like Capcom D&D games and an interface that is not a complete clusterfuck.
Like From Software games?

[Anonymous No.5983037]

>>5980490
I prefer Japanese-style RPGs, but Wizardry looks interesting. Just something about it, I can't put my finger on it.
>>5981761
I didn't know Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei existed. I tried the NES games briefly, they look good and I plan to put more time into them. Right now I just finished Nocturne (90 hours never felt like it went by so fast) and I started DDS but it doesn't seem quite as amazing (Nocturne is a literal 10/10 though so it's hard to compete)

I LOVE the SNES Dragon Quest games, especially III. I still haven't played SMT 1 or 2 yet - I'm really in love with SMT lately

[Anonymous No.5983429]

>>5982145
>IIRC Stonekeep's development was long, messy, and expensive
this is true. The game went through insane feature creep (the original design required no mouse or hard drive) and the dev team went from just a main programmer (Peter Oliphant) and some graphic artists to a team of over 200 people by the end of development.
>and on top of that, sales were not satisfying
Stonekeep sold 300,000 copies in 3 years, so decent but way under what Interplay projected.
>(the latter is partly because Ultima Underworld was released roughly at the same time)
Stonekeep released in 1995. UU 1 in 1992. UU 2 in 1993. Not even close anon.
>so no wonder that executives didn't want to continue with the franchise
Stonekeep 2: Godmaker was in production for over 4 years before it got cancelled. Try doing some research before you embarrass yourself with another half-assed post.

[Anonymous No.5983478]

>>5980490
Theres also the Quest

[Anonymous No.5983539]

>>5983037
funny thing is japs love wizaedry

[Anonymous No.5986153]

>>5978368
great answer, thanks!

[Anonymous No.5986181]

>>5980087
>Why change what the core fans were used to.
Because games shall evolve. Many games had a clunky start, like Street Fighter, but evolved into something better.
Meanwhile this kind of dungeon crawlers stayed clunky and ugly.

>>5980093
I'm okay with the cheesyness. I even like it.
What I can't stand is how bad and amateur everything looks.

[Anonymous No.5986891]

>>5986181
>like street fighter

Yeah, isnt that a game a baby can beat button mashing?

I am pretty sure hand holding in video games is not an improvement. But you can fuck off to v where you belong faggot

[Anonymous No.5986957]

Start playing one.

[Anonymous No.5987084]

Autism.

[Anonymous No.5987087]

>>5978182
We can be friends if you want to.

[Anonymous No.5988463]

>>5978294
Try Etrian Odyssey. Grimrock is deliberately simple and Elminage is basically Wizardry in all but name. You might enjoy one more complicated.

[Anonymous No.5989273]

does Luigi's Mansion count as a dungeon crawler?

[Anonymous No.5989312]

>>5983037
>I LOVE the SNES Dragon Quest games, especially III. I still haven't played SMT 1 or 2 yet - I'm really in love with SMT lately

One of the reasons I like the retro DQ games more is because they respect their dungeon crawling inspired roots.

[Anonymous No.5989531]

>>5978182
roll20 is decent.

[Anonymous No.5989535]

>>5978180
this image made me coom

[Anonymous No.5990337]

>>5980972
If an editor is listed on the front page then traditionally it's a short story collection with many authors, rather than a novel.

[Anonymous No.5990757]

>>5978186
Thanks for putting in words what non-retro RPG's have failed to deliver. It's all about "story-story-story" and the resources (items, mp) are so many.

[Anonymous No.5990760]

>>5979756
Games WITH the exit spell will never deliver the "can you make it back out" feeling. It's similar to survival horror. Meanwhile, your exit spell has a fixed amount of MP requirement from only one party member, so as long as you keep him over that amount you're good to keep pushing.

[Anonymous No.5991240]

I tried Eye of the Beholder on Sega CD for my first crawler. How come these games aren't turn-based? Can't you just cheese combat by going around enemies between their swing timers, like in Grimrock?

[Anonymous No.5991250]

I tried Eye of the Beholder on Sega CD for my first crawler. How come these games aren't turn-based? Can't you just cheese combat by going around enemies between their swing timers, like in Grimrock?

The music and atmosphere were really good for their age. Especially when worms jumped on me. I like how you have no idea what to expect in the next corner, adds to the element of exploration.

I'm also thinking of grabbing the six M&M games from GOG (the limited edition collection). I hope they are the best versions.

[Anonymous No.5991397]

>>5991250
Samefagging here. I learned that the grid dancing is a thing from the past. My question is, can you enjoy combat if you opt out of dancing the grid?

[Anonymous No.5991589]

>>5979334
Echoing Etrian Odyssey (on 3DS), also Sega Ages Phantasy Star on Switch, fan translation of Shin Megami Tensei (first one, on SNES) is a bit less forgiving but still worthwhile. I wouldn’t recommend jumping in to something like Wizardry unless you’ve already got an appreciation for old school WRPG difficulty.