Wow, for a gay autistic furry weeaboo Byuu sure isn't fucking around. bsnes now supports run ahead.

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Anonymous Sat Oct 19 11:41:03 2019 No.5958208 [Reply] [Original]

Wow, for a gay autistic furry weeaboo Byuu sure isn't fucking around.

bsnes now supports run ahead.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 11:44:30 2019 No.5958216 >>5958208 Well, he's already made BSNES as accurate as an emulator can be without being accurate to the transistor level. No where else to go for improvement now, it's all going to be enhancements and features from here on out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:32:00 2019 No.5958282 What's run ahead?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:35:51 2019 No.5958287 >>5958208 >emulator supports cheating and is big news! ???

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:35:59 2019 No.5958289 >>5958282 It's a way to reduce lag. My understanding of it is, the emulator is always predicting the next few frames, so that when it detects your input it can go straight to the correct frame. Apparently this is faster than just processing your input.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:37:16 2019 No.5958292 >>5958289 >cheating ftfy

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:40:28 2019 No.5958301 >>5958287 >>5958292 Hot new meme

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:40:56 2019 No.5958305 >>5958289 Yeah, instead of doing 2000 instructions later, it constantly does 14,000 instructions now and spends 8 instructions later picking the correct one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:42:38 2019 No.5958310 >>5958301 Runahead is blatant cheating. In other words, modes on an emulator that make it easier for the player, as in skipping frames, for any reason, is cheating.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:46:58 2019 No.5958318 >>5958282 Modern CPUs call it branch prediction. Its there same thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:47:06 2019 No.5958319 >>5958310 That's fine, you can have your retarded beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:48:53 2019 No.5958321 >>5958319 It's straight-up cheating. How is removing frames that you normally must "wait" through, not cheating? Are you actually telling everyone that using runahead is A-OK during world record runs? You must be.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:53:40 2019 No.5958328 >>5958321 >Using an emulator for speedruns Poorfag detected

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:55:04 2019 No.5958331 >>5958328 >obviously preach the hardware gospel >poorfag emu You're just trolling on every thread, aren't ya?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 12:56:53 2019 No.5958337 File: 343 KB, 640x627, 67927842_478370182941574_7251431175485390848_n.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5958321 Who the fuck even cares besides autistic little fags like you? I'll give you a hint: nobody that matters.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:10:12 2019 No.5958378 >>5958337 >Who the fuck even cares[?] People that want to beat the games fair and square.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:14:12 2019 No.5958386

>>5958321
The player is not on charge of how many frames it skips. It only skips frames to counteract lag, the gameplay should be at the same speed as real hardware. It shouldnt be an advantage.

It's your own community, I'm sure it will be it's own category or just take over the current emulated category

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:15:54 2019 No.5958389 >>5958386 >It only skips frames to counteract lag Sure, buddy. So then it's ok for world records, then. Right? No? Oh...

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:19:15 2019 No.5958396 >Runahead >Remotely accurate Choose one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:20:19 2019 No.5958401 >>5958208 But run ahead is the definition of fucking around

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:29:58 2019 No.5958425

Runhead is great when it works, and I do use it and I do shill for RetroArch and also suck byuu's cock, but let's be real here - it's cheating. There are blatant frames being skipped.
That being said, my man byuu is crushing it with bsnes lately. HD Mode 7, those shaders from RetroArch, runahead. Maybe he'll trim his fingernails next.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:32:39 2019 No.5958428 >>5958378 Yeah, I guess I'm happier with a game being fun than it being autistically identical to shit hardware.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:33:08 2019 No.5958429 >>5958425 this No one is saying that it isn't helpful, but cheating usually is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:34:10 2019 No.5958435 >>5958428 >correct and fair gameplay is teh g@yzors Gotcha, zoomy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:36:20 2019 No.5958440 >>5958435 Thought of that one all by yourself, huh?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:38:52 2019 No.5958446 >>5958440 >Thinking is novel to you. I like NES better than the SNES.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:44:48 2019 No.5958453 >>5958208 >gay autistic I believe the preferred nomenclature is ‘autistic faggot’

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:45:06 2019 No.5958454 >>5958446 Well this was fun, troll. Good bye

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:48:45 2019 No.5958460

remember: you can only advance as many frames as delay frames the game had with respect to the press on the controller. So what you do is compensate the external lag by eliminating the internal lag.
In other words, if a game doesn't have frames of delay in the response in the original hardware, you can't use runahead to compensate for the lag caused by the emulator, the operating system and the TV, or it will sound like shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:48:57 2019 No.5958462 >>5958454 I'm the troll!? LoL, ok, Have fun playing Adventure Fun Sparkle Babies 7 on your Apple phone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:52:05 2019 No.5958474 >>5958462 The hell are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 13:54:36 2019 No.5958481 >>5958474 >shill hard for cheating techniques on a classic vidya board >doesn't gravitate towards the easiest hand-holders

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:09:49 2019 No.5958515
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>>5958321
>speedruns
Who gives a shit about those? I bet half of the retard NEETs who waste their life getting frustrated replying the same sections 1000s of times all cheat.
Who gives a shit about speedruns?

Anyway, the emulator still renders the frames, runahead is actually just compensating for IRQ and OS latency and making it closer to the original console overall. Obviously a tech-illiterate gamer/speedrun-creature wouldn't understand.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:11:21 2019 No.5958520 >>5958435 After a long day's work, I look forward to going home and sitting down for an hour-long session of Correct and Fair.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:14:01 2019 No.5958529 >>5958289 So it's like that input prediction google stadia is pushing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:14:23 2019 No.5958531 >still no fullscreen

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:16:57 2019 No.5958535 [DELETED]

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>>5958462
>>5958435
>wojack-posting
>"he doesn't agree with a ''retro expert'' like me so he must be le itoddlerz app gamer"
It's not everyday that you see an anon with actual autism (mental disorder, not meme)

Also speedrunning os fucking retarded

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:17:35 2019 No.5958537

>>5958520
You might not be German.
>>5958515
How does it feel never achieving something without cheating? For me, I fail to see the substance in that; it would be pointless. Don't me wrong, I've used a Game Genie before, but AFTER I played the game for real, buddy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:19:18 2019 No.5958540 >>5958535 I never posted one Wojack, wtf are you on? Go lay some NES without cheating and grow some hair. >Also speedrunning os fucking retarded "Those who are better at video games threaten my ego."

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:20:11 2019 No.5958545

>>5958460
Horseshit. Your post is also easily proven wrong assumptions and miscatagorizations.
>if a game doesn't have frames of delay in the response in the original hardware, you can't use runahead to compensate for the lag caused by the emulator.
This is the most head scratching statement in this thread of misinformed gaymers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:20:57 2019 No.5958547 >>5958540 I only play open and free-source vidya where I can program the rules from the start. Enjoy playing by another man's rulebook, retard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:21:40 2019 No.5958551 >>5958547 >I only play open and free-source vidya where I can program the rules from the start. Ah you were trolling.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:40:10 2019 No.5958608

>>5958460
This. Setting runahead higher than the game's internal lag will cause noticeable stuttering. For example, with Super Mario World, you can have 4 frames of runahead and it will be smoother than real hardware because the game is a laggy slow overrated piece of shit, but if you do the same on a good game like Super Metroid, 2 frames of runahead make it stutter like crazy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:51:39 2019 No.5958639 >>5958289 >>5958305 >>5958529 No, it's not at all like that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 14:59:20 2019 No.5958664 >>5958208 >gay autistic furry weeaboo Redundant. Just say furry.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 15:03:16 2019 No.5958671 File: 1.26 MB, 480x273, hahahaha spoton.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5958664

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 15:05:19 2019 No.5958674 Eliminating a handicap isn't the same thing as giving yourself an unfair advantage. It's like saying playing games on a CRT is cheating

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 15:06:38 2019 No.5958679 >>5958674 >Eliminating a handicap What? It's creating a handicap, oh guru.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 15:09:19 2019 No.5958685 >>5958674 The thing introduces incorrect inputs and even skipped inputs in order to cheat on some games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 15:55:07 2019 No.5958778 emulatorfags are now TASing by default and see nothing wrong with it what happened

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:03:38 2019 No.5958794
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>>5958778
The natural evolution of video games, for better or for worse, is that they have gotten easier because all the early 8-bit games had going for them were pure mechanics and timing. Memory and reflexes were pushed to their limits because there was nothing else, so later consoles naturally shied away from that style. So through pragmatism, games got easier because they had to be, e.g., there are less choices to keep Mario from dying in 2-D, whereas in 3-D, there are more avenues to escape owing to the enhanced realism.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:07:19 2019 No.5958798

>>5958310
It also makes some games actually playable. Not sure about snes games, but the combat timing in mother 3 never worked until runahead, too much input latency.
Also, I haven't used it in years, but I'd be pretty surprised if bsnes didn't support game genie style cheat codes.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:11:40 2019 No.5958804

>>5958798
>It also makes some games actually playable
I just thought of a legitimate application for runahead, implement it in some of GoG's translations of classic PC games because[as a concept, I realize that DOSbox ain't the same emulator] most, if not all, of the DOS games circa 1995 run a tad too fast and make certain levels virtually impossible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:12:43 2019 No.5958807 >>5958798 >, but the combat timing in mother 3 never worked until runahead, too much input latency Hey, if runahead fixes broken games, more power to you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:32:05 2019 No.5958840 File: 1.02 MB, 1142x800, 1565320515661.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5958807

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:40:53 2019 No.5958863 >>5958840 Git gud. Wait forgot that you can't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:55:46 2019 No.5958889 >>5958537 how does it feel being both autistic and sophistic

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 16:58:19 2019 No.5958892 >>5958889 Feels like a flawless run of Mike Tyson's Punch Out!! At peace secure in the knowledge that patience overcomes all.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:00:34 2019 No.5958898

>>5958685
Citation needed you dumb fuck. How the fuck can it "introduce" inputs that you didn't input?

>>5958794
All runahead does it eliminate the extra input lag that LCDs have over CRTs, it doesn't make the game any "easier" than playing it on a CRT does. A good example is SMB1. Playing on an NES hooked up to a CRT I can jump exactly when I land going up the stairs to the flagpole every time. On an LCD it's hit or miss because not only is there added lag, the lag time can actually vary as you're playing. Runahead completely eliminates this and now it feels identical to CRT. This is neither cheating nor making the game any "easier" than it inherently is, all it's doing is getting rid of the lag. People in this thread claiming otherwise are fucking retarded and don't even understand how this shit works.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:02:21 2019 No.5958903 >>5958898 How does it feel never achieving something without cheating? For me, I fail to see the substance in that; it would be pointless. Don't me wrong, I've used a Game Genie before, but AFTER I played the game for real, buddy.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:03:29 2019 No.5958904

>>5958898
>>5958898
>How the fuck can it "introduce" inputs that you didn't input?
Read up on the topic outside of this forum.
>Runahead completely eliminates
False.
>This is neither cheating nor making the game any "easier" than it inherently is
Apocryphal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:03:56 2019 No.5958905 >>5958903 This smells like copypasta.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:04:15 2019 No.5958907 >>5958898 Runahead has absolutely nothing to do with LCDs input lag. And there’s many ips panels out there with less input lag than any crt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:05:34 2019 No.5958908 >>5958905 It's from earlier in the thread...my post. My typo helps it work as a pasta I guess.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:06:10 2019 No.5958912

>>5958903
I don't think you know what it's actually doing. It's simply a more-precise version of how a game like Resident Evil can pre-load all the adjoining rooms, except it's pre-loading all movement possibilities up to that point.

That or you're just an antivaxxer's deformed incest baby.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:08:00 2019 No.5958919 >>5958898 You are dumb.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:08:13 2019 No.5958920

>>5958912
>It's simply a more-precise version of how a game like Resident Evil can pre-load all the adjoining rooms, except it's pre-loading all movement possibilities up to that point.
It's still not operating as originally intended, though I appreciate the education.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:09:47 2019 No.5958925

>>5958321
>>5958378
Are you under the impression you HAVE to use run ahead? It's a software feature you can disable. It being included in new versions doesn't require it being on. If you want to "beat the game fair and square" you still can... Or are you mad at other people for not doing it the same way as you? I can't tell what you're sperging out about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:10:47 2019 No.5958926 >>5958925 We both know that the rampant cheating going on Youtube;et al is going to get worse because of this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:10:53 2019 No.5958927 >>5958925 >are you mad at other people for not doing it the same way as you I fail to see the substance in that; it would be pointless.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:14:14 2019 No.5958932 Plastic obsessed collectors seething really hard ITT

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:14:15 2019 No.5958934

>>5958904
>Read up on the topic outside of this forum.
I did it and doesn't work how I thought it did. I admit I was wrong. Please no bully.

I'm still going to use it though because it improves the experience, just like overclocking and removing sprite limits.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:14:27 2019 No.5958936 >>5958310 cheating or not, why the fuck do you care what other people do when emulating games? so what if they cheat, that's not your business or concern.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:14:40 2019 No.5958937 >>5958920 Emulators aren't original intention either, neither are USBs, drivers, LCDs, and all post-SNES technology in general, which is why problems occur.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:14:59 2019 No.5958938 File: 44 KB, 750x911, 3C41BE41-7724-4CDE-B881-C1322E346FAD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5958208 How old are you that you feel the need to call someone a gay autistic furry weeaboo?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:16:52 2019 No.5958942 >>5958926 the fuck are you smoking? people put dumb shit up on youtube all the time. that's what it's there fore. if you don't like it, don't watch it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:17:01 2019 No.5958943 >>5958208 jfc can you sperglords just give it a rest already with that byuu-hateboner of yours?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:18:22 2019 No.5958945 >>5958936 >cheating or not, why the fuck do you care what other people do when emulating games? They usually try to pass it off as original hardware or at least totes legit emu play and get credit for shit that they don't really accomplish.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:19:30 2019 No.5958947 >>5958937 Good point. Emulators aren't on parity with original hardware yet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:20:26 2019 No.5958950 Why are people bitching about cheating in this thread? 99% of people using emulators are just doing so to play a fucking game, they don't give a shit about your records communities.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:21:50 2019 No.5958959 >>5958945 the usual thing is actually to not record or show people one's video gaming

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:22:05 2019 No.5958960 >>5958938 None of those things are even necessarily an insult other than the weeaboo part, and that might just be a fact.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:23:03 2019 No.5958963

>>5958945
This may be a problem in competitive play like speedrunning, but in any other context I fail to see an issue with it. Less input lag makes for a more enjoyable experience, as do many of the other enhancements emulators provide. At the end of the day it's all about the experience of playing the game. Which box your controller is hooked up to is completely inconsequential, unless you have personal attachment to the hardware or are engaging in competitive play where original hardware provides an even playing field.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:23:19 2019 No.5958964
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>>5958934
>I did it and doesn't work how I thought it did. I admit I was wrong. Please no bully.
>I'm still going to use it though because it improves the experience, just like overclocking and removing sprite limits.

You're cool, anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:26:33 2019 No.5958971 >>5958898 >All runahead does it eliminate the extra input lag that LCD Wrong. If you want to eliminate that, you get a proper TV. Runahead only gets rid of the internal lag (see the Super Mario World example they posted)

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:33:31 2019 No.5958979 >>5958208 >gay autistic furry weeaboo obese gay autistic furry pedophile weeabo

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:35:16 2019 No.5958982 >>5958950 Records communities don't give much of a shit either, only pathetic dad collectors and nintendo speedrun trannies do

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 17:48:03 2019 No.5959006 >>5958982 >Records communities don't give much of a shit either LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iirf4_jiX0Y >4 hours of thorough analysis on how Billy Michell is a cheating bastard done with legal precision >don't give a shit

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:01:31 2019 No.5959032 >>5959006 The problem isn't and never was him simply playing on mame you DUMB nigga

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:14:56 2019 No.5959064 >>5959032 >The problem isn't and never was him simply playing on mame Yes, it is, oh uninformed one. Legally TG can't say it's MAME, but I'll say it: he used MAME .45-there that's what he used. Now you can go verify that, or you can troll, your choice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:17:56 2019 No.5959069 >>5959064 I'll repeat: who gives a shit outside of some stupid niche community? Most people just want to play games and don't care about what advantages or disadvantages features like run-ahead present for speedrun spergs. Cope.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:18:15 2019 No.5959070

>>5958898
Nope, what you said is the opposite of reality. Do some more learning. Runahead can achieve less lag than original hardware. That wouldn't be true if runahead was "only fixing LCD lag" and not fixing lag built into games themselves whether used on CRT or not.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:18:55 2019 No.5959073 >>5959069 >I'll repeat: who gives a shit outside of some stupid niche community? Where do you think you're posting? Almost everyone cares but you, dude.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:20:15 2019 No.5959074

>>5959064
You are an utter retard, mame's allowed for records as long as you specify and provide decent evidence like non suspect footage, inp files, live play etc Billy didnt meet any of that shit and pretended it was the actual hardware. Nobody cares if you use mame as long as youre otherwise honest

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:21:44 2019 No.5959078 >>5959074 Billy, you didn't use WolfMAME and the contest wasn't for MAME records, but for real hardware, you cheating has-been.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:21:57 2019 No.5959079 >>5959073 Whos everyone, non player dads on /vr/ who have more useless plastic than scores?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:23:13 2019 No.5959084 >>5959074 >Nobody cares if you use mame as long as youre otherwise honest That's a falsehood because MAME is not the original hardware and often doesn't act or feel like it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:23:46 2019 No.5959085 >>5959078 In other words the problem is DISHONESTY not some stupid hurrr he play on emu shit, besides most actual players will be impressed by a good mame replay instead of sperging out like the idiots itt

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:25:35 2019 No.5959086 >>5959084 Then how come theres mame score submissions side by side with arcade ones on leaderboards only separated by a small additional comment with no one batting an eye?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:25:37 2019 No.5959087 >>5959085 It's both. MAME acts differently even when played without cheats; some game even run faster, like Robotron, making it harder. Others are made easier. Those are facts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:27:06 2019 No.5959089 >>5959086 It's ok to play for a MAME score when that's the agreed contest with special locked down versions of MAME. Billy on the other hand played in the original hardware slot and used MAME to fake his scores.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:27:47 2019 No.5959090

>>5959073
I've been frequenting /vr/ for quite a while now and this thread is literally the first time I've seen one or several (can't tell yet) people throwing a bitch-fit over run-ahead being "cheating" or whatever. There are much, MUCH more valid criticisms of emulation I've seen in other threads, but this takes the cake for frivolous bullshit that someone seems to get their panties in a bunch over.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:30:20 2019 No.5959095 >>5959087 In other words if you get a good robotron record on mame youre actually a much more skilled player than hardware players, this actually applies to lots of games since they have more input lag than hardware >>5959089 No shit

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:30:24 2019 No.5959096

>>5959090
>There are much, MUCH more valid criticisms of emulation I've seen in other threads, but this takes the cake for frivolous bullshit that someone seems to get their panties in a bunch over.
It's valid, but I'll grant it's in a gray area. Not sure why you're surprised when there's been a hundred Mememeister threads.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:31:23 2019 No.5959103 What happened to byuu? Wasn't he shilling his retarded game folders concept?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:31:27 2019 No.5959104 >>5959095 >In other words if you get a good robotron record on mame youre actually a much more skilled player than hardware players That is a fact. Just remember that other games are made easier as well.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:32:52 2019 No.5959105

>>5959090
As I said, collectors desperately trying to justify their monetary investment and lack of scores. Frankly once you venture outside of the most mainstream scoring games hardware starts to matter less and less cuz being elitist would be completely anti competitive and poisonous to the scenes

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:34:57 2019 No.5959108 >>5959105 It's about who really wins, not the monetary value.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:35:38 2019 No.5959112

>>5959096
I mean, I can totally see where it specifically *might* be a problem for speedrunners that obsess over every damn ms, but for the average /vr/ gamer, especially if you're not playing something super latency-critical, it's pretty insignificant. It's not like someone is going to have the "wrong" experience due to run-ahead. They're emulating, it's already the "wrong" experience for a good chunk of this board. I'm not an asspie purist though, so I don't really give a shit, I just play games instead of sweating every little detail to the point I can't even enjoy a game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:39:29 2019 No.5959118 >>5959108 Nobody wins when theres 2 people playing because nobody can afford the pcb and mame is banned

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:39:59 2019 No.5959119

>>5959112
>It's not like someone is going to have the "wrong" experience due to run-ahead. They're emulating, it's already the "wrong" experience for a good chunk of this board
True. Yes, the crux is what we want to do in our own way, of course, but this is a nitpicky board by design and we could just all smoke pot and not discuss anything, or do this, I choose this.

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:42:18 2019 No.5959127

>>5959118
Which is the best argument for always having WolfMAME being an option. Hey, it's not that I don't respect MAME scores, I do, but they're just not the same as old hardware. Although yes, for reasons of practicality and fairness, I wouldn't outright ban MAME or any other emulator.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:43:09 2019 No.5959129 will he ever get dynamic rate control working? It might actually be usable outside of retroarch then.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:47:11 2019 No.5959138 >>5959119 I mean why not both :P

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 18:52:06 2019 No.5959143 File: 535 KB, 2848x2132, arwings in ocarina of time.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5959138 That is the best way. Like pic related that is in the ROM, but can't be unlocked (suppesedly) without a GameShark or en emulator.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 21:22:59 2019 No.5959404 File: 160 KB, 657x527, 593.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I thought snes9x was the best now. Should I delete it and replace it with bsnes?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 21:32:38 2019 No.5959425 >>5958807 The game isn't broken at all, it just only worked with low input latency, it works fine on6a gba or ds. it isn't broken.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 21:46:58 2019 No.5959460 File: 30 KB, 640x636, 1546706104221.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5959404 >snes9x

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 21:48:13 2019 No.5959462 >>5959404 >I thought snes9x was the best now It's pretty good and can play Starfox 2 (the finished version from Nintendo) at full speed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 21:57:20 2019 No.5959478 >b-but speedrunning! No one gives a fuck about your low skilled hobby.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 21:58:09 2019 No.5959481 >>5959478 It triggered you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 22:15:38 2019 No.5959520 What kind of gay speedrunning community allow emulation for a SNES game? Even if you can't find the cartridge it you can use a flashcart. .

Anonymous Sat Oct 19 23:24:50 2019 No.5959662

How has /vr/ not already had this cheating or fair argument when RetroArch added runahead years ago? This isn't new.
>>5958425
>Maybe he'll trim his fingernails next.
Good news anon, he did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW_Bz00pTcM
Now you don't have to worry about his nails digging into your back.
>>5958531
I count three kinds of fullscreen. How many more do you want?
>>5958938
At least that's all true. I think he denies being an autist but I mean come on.
Much better than low effort >>5958979 who can't even watch the YouTube video.
>>5959129
It has working dynamic rate control. See the OP screenshot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 23:27:58 2019 No.5959670 OP here. Came back after posting the thread yesterday, looking forward to reading the replies. And what I found? Autism of levels rarely seen. Really, the "muh cheating" fag needs to chill out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 23:50:15 2019 No.5959716 >>5959460 Is that a yes?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 19 23:52:17 2019 No.5959719 >>5959670 OP's a faggot. That kind of consistency is downright comfy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 02:44:29 2019 No.5959908 So whats the downside? Just beefier specs needed?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 03:02:04 2019 No.5959915 >>5959716 Download bsnes and give it a test run. If it runs fine for you then keep it, if it doesn't stick to 9x.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 03:03:50 2019 No.5959917

I've read this entire thread and I have seen no argument for his the fuck this is "cheating".

You faggots act like the game is playing itself for you now. It's literally just emulating frames ahead based on possible inputs and then choosing the actual input. How the fuck is this "cheating"? By that logic using an emulator at all is considered "cheating". Seriously. All of the features every single emulator has ever had, and this is the one that apparently crosses the fucking line. Retroarch has supported this shit for a while now.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 03:26:44 2019 No.5959937 >not using snes9x to emulate the sness >not using epsxe to emulate the psx Zoomers are fags. Case dismissed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 03:38:27 2019 No.5959945 >>5959917 le not how developers intended

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 03:49:54 2019 No.5959956 Remember back in the day when no one gave two shits that you used a gameshark or game genie to fuck around with your games to increase the fun you had with them? Prudes have ruined retro games. It's no wonder zoomers prefer minecraft and fortnite.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 04:11:43 2019 No.5959973

>>5959908
Every frame of run-ahead requires the equivalent of emulating an additional SNES. Five frames of run ahead means emulating six SNESes. bSNES is pretty fast these days so it's not a problem. Fast forward disables run ahead so you can turbo through games just as fast.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 05:26:28 2019 No.5960050

>>5959917
Sounds just like the autistic speed runners care because they don't understand what the actual function is. Though, byuu's demonstration does show that there's strange effects with too much runahead that might be something exploitable depending on the game, but it's readily viewable to anyone watching. Might as well complain about any oddity of any emulator. For the most part it's more like complaining about someone playing on a wired controller vs wireless and whining that they have an unfair advantage. Stupid shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 07:50:09 2019 No.5960207 >>5958378 >People that want to beat the games fair and square. "People" that sperg out at a feature that improves gameplay experience and is in no way forced on them can't be called "people" desu.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 08:31:57 2019 No.5960251

>>5959917
As usual, /vr/ (and speedrunners) are completely retarded about any technical subject. Explanations of runahead tend to use the same terminology as emulator enhancements like savestates and rewind, so people assume it's the same sort of thing and start the same old autistic tirades, when it really just reduces the lag of PC emulators back to what the original hardware would have been, (or "what the developers intended.") If it's cheating, using original hardware on a CRT is cheating, and the only way to avoid cheating is to use a shitty PC emulator with 5+ frames of lag. Either that, or people who own original hardware are getting desperate because there are fewer advantages over emulators, so they parrot things that they know are wrong in the hopes that other people do it as well and validate their irrational hatred of emulators.

It doesn't help that people in favour of runahead, like >>5958925 >>5960207 and others, also misunderstand it and defend it as if it was an emulator enhancement that improves the experience over OG hardware, not an accuracy improvement that makes the experience more like the original hardware.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 09:00:08 2019 No.5960280 >hardware fags >the input delay >emufags >removes input delay >hardwarefags >ITS CHEATING lol, you guys are fucking idiots, pc master race wins again

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 09:01:37 2019 No.5960282 >>5958318 >Modern CPUs call it branch prediction No they don't, this is much more simple than branch prediction. It's still impressive but not the same thing.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 09:20:37 2019 No.5960317

>>5960251
>As usual, /vr/ (and speedrunners) are completely retarded about any technical subject. Explanations of runahead tend to use the same terminology as emulator enhancements like savestates and rewind, so people assume it's the same sort of thing and start the same old autistic tirades,
No, that's not it at all. jfc. I was actually open to hearing a non-bs claim about runahead. Look at this guy, he's written two paragraphs, he must know SOMETHING. But clearly you do not. Runahead is literally running ahead in the game code, anyone who thinks that's acceptable at speedrunning is a fool, plain and simple. Fractions of seconds matter in speedrunning, sometimes tenths or thousands of seconds. If you're going to allow emulation so 3rd worlders can compete, then it at the very least has to be as accurate as possible.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 09:30:24 2019 No.5960332 >>5960317 For something like speedrunning they shouldn't even be using an emulator unless they're just practicing a certain part of a game.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 09:31:59 2019 No.5960337

>>5960251
>when it really just reduces the lag of PC emulators back to what the original hardware would have been. [...] If it's cheating, using original hardware on a CRT is cheating, and the only way to avoid cheating is to use a shitty PC emulator with 5+ frames of lag
Sort of. What run-ahead does is completely parallel to that.
You can pile it on top of using a CRT monitor straight through VGA, either without vsync or with tricks to limit buffering, and actually reach rates that are indeed faster than real hardware.
But that's practically ideal conditions, not usually realistic.

Honestly, it's just another aspect of setup. Like using a low lag monitor/TV. Or, forgive me for even mentioning this, using touch screen input or not.
Whether or not competitive scenes decide it's cheating is up to them. I don't even care if there's any hypocrisy involved in relation to other lag reduction; they can sort that out themselves. It's just completely irrelevant anywhere else.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 09:52:19 2019 No.5960350

>>5959129
>>5959662
>It has working dynamic rate control. See the OP screenshot.
Technically yes. He doesn't allow automatic skewing though; which, while less accurate, is pretty notable for avoiding stutter/crackle/pop.
You have to choose a skew rate yourself if you use it at all. So dynamic rate control can only help within its boundaries. Any jolt in running rate, like due to running at SNES's native framerate exactly and dropping a frame for vsync, could upset things slightly causing microstutter in video and/or audio.
I doubt almost anyone is setting a custom output mode for 60.1Hz.

Humorous note: skewing the rate to ~60Hz would be the opposite of cheating, due to slowing the game down ever so slightly. But the inaccuracy is still usually considered unacceptable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 10:02:13 2019 No.5960369 so when is he going to add frame delay and gpu hardsync?

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 10:16:37 2019 No.5960389

>>5959404
They have healthy and friendly competition going on, really.
They both have compatibility down pat. Even offering options for compatibility with broken ZSNES hacks.
Plenty of enhancement options too, though some stuff is done differently. Like overclocking on bSNES is done by inserting extra scanlines in each frame to run shit on, while overclocking (Non-FX) in Snes9x is done by reducing the cycles needed to complete certain functions.

Speaking of enhancements, bSNES is winning that race, and it is quite a bunch faster than it used to be.
But it's still slower than Snes9x. Though that only really matters if you need to use less power; from using weak hardware, trying to conserve electricity, trying to reduce fan noise, or just using runahead(bSNES or RetroArch only) or turbo.

You could really use either if you want to.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 10:24:41 2019 No.5960396

>>5959917
>It's literally just emulating frames ahead based on possible inputs and then choosing the actual input
Not quite.
It's taking inputs on one frame, saving a state, then running ahead however many frames it's set to, displaying that frame on the screen, then loading that state.
What that's useful for is bypassing internal lag. Like if the game doesn't actually display the reaction to your inputs for several frames, it can be skipped. Super Mario World, for instance, takes several frames to show up.
I've not read through byuu's implementation to know if it uses a 2 instance mode at all, but that's only really relevant for audio. And mostly just for getting around core/state issues.

Regardless, there's no choosing of future inputs at all.
Any inputs past the frame it's sampled from are irrelevant. Because if configured properly, to get rid of internal lag only, the frame on which the reactions from those inputs displays won't show up.
And if it's configured too far then the result is obvious as you have some weird stutter or negative inertia.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 10:25:54 2019 No.5960398 Does bSnes still create a subfolder for every game you play? Is it still unable to load zipped ROMs? because thats fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 10:29:13 2019 No.5960403 >>5960398 Game folders were trashed long ago, I believe. He and several other individuals still like the idea, but no longer want to push it on unwilling people.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 11:04:19 2019 No.5960431

>>5960280
Of course they're mad. It was the one thing they could lord their $200 hipster boxes over emufags with. Now we've got their input latency beat, save states, overclocking, HD Mode 7 and widescreen. "No emulation" is now a limitation instead of a selling point.
>>5960350
The new bSNES dynamic rate control setting does the skewing automatically. I've tried it, no dicking around with the audio skew setting needed, but you do have to set your monitor in 60 hz mode to use it.
>>5960369
He has GPU hardsync already: https://images.byuu.org/bsnes/byuu-bsnes-ui-drivers.png
I don't see frame delay though.
>>5960398
It loads ZIP and 7zip files, it didn't make any subfolders on my machine. All the autistic design is just gone, it's pretty slick now.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 11:08:17 2019 No.5960438 >>5960398 Jesus nigger, is it still 2014 in your head?

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 11:11:19 2019 No.5960445
File: 50 KB, 688x454, bsnes_2019-10-20_11-07-48_Settings.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5960369
Just as with RetroArch, hard sync is only relevant for using OpenGL with certain drivers.
But sadly, it seems bSNES with OpenGL doesn't allow exclusive fullscreen on Windows. So unless you are willing and able to disable desktop composition I couldn't recommend doing that at all. Direct3D would just plain work better.
No frame delay though, yeah.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 11:13:35 2019 No.5960451 >>5960445 Also yes I accidentally had sync audio on with dynamic rate control. That was to see how badly it works, not intending to use it that way.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 11:32:26 2019 No.5960475

>>5960445
What's stopping OpenGL exclusive mode anyway? Is that not a thing?
>>5960451
Those profile buttons are a step in the right direction but it's pretty dumb to even allow checking sync audio and dynamic rate control at the same time. The GUI still needs some polish for people who aren't emudevs.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:24:24 2019 No.5960572
File: 51 KB, 688x454, bsnes_2019-10-20_12-19-12_Settings.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5960431
>skewing automatically
Nice. I'll have to try that with my 120Hz monitor to make sure it works there, though I'll probably still use RA anyway.
>>5960475
I know it can be done. Pretty sure it's normally done with GLUT or just window styles.

Hiding options that don't work well with each other is not good design. The user should be allowed to fuck up if he wants to. Even if only for curiosity.
It is stated in the tooltip for Dynamic Rate. And there are presets for retards now.
Limiting what users can do to like to ``protect'' them or something is retarded. And retarding, literally.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:35:38 2019 No.5960593

>>5960431
>Of course they're mad. It was the one thing they could lord their $200 hipster boxes over emufags with. Now we've got their input latency beat, save states, overclocking, HD Mode 7 and widescreen. "No emulation" is now a limitation instead of a selling point.

There are two ways of reading this - literally or as hyperbole. If you actually believe for one second that you can remove input latency from emulation you are absolute straight retarded with no clue about emulation. byuu himself the author of bsnes even explains why it is not possible in his article on input lags. It's physically and theoretically impossible.

So if you're trying to make some ironic or devil's advocate point fair enough, but if you actually believe for one second if you really believe it's the same thing except less input lag then you my friend know absolutely nothing about emulation.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:40:20 2019 No.5960608

>>5958216
He can actually work to get the NES, Game Boy/Color/Advance, Master System, WonderSwan/Color, Game Gear, Mega Drive, TurboGrafx-16 and SuperGrafx higan cores anywhere near the quality of the bsnes emulator. Nowadays he's just beating a dead horse by forcusing on SNES emulation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:50:45 2019 No.5960630 >>5958208 >all these features >super gameboy is still busted

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:56:47 2019 No.5960641
File: 9 KB, 476x157, waterfox_2019-10-20_12-45-07_Input_Lag_Compensation_to_compensate_for_game's_in.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5960593
Not him, and the argument about real hardware comparisons is stupid as hell.
But it is the same thing except less input lag. Or more specifically less output lag, from the console.
All it does is run frames ahead of time to display the result of your inputs from them, discarding every single one right after.
Like it can be explained in 5 simple steps, as seen here.
It's seriously NOT complex. You don't need to know anything about emulation to understand it, though knowing more does help.

Most of the latency from emulation comes from OS/driver buffering and digital monitor output.
You can technically kill much of the buffering with some tricks. Beam racing in particular looks interesting, but isn't implemented in most emulators, besides I think WinUAE.
You can kill monitor output delay by using a CRT monitor.
And run ahead can push it up to or past real hardware in speed [[[IF]]] the game buffers a shit ton. Because if so, it's delayed a ton on real hardware as well, and killing that just kills it.

I'd love to see that article on input lag which claims that it's physically and theoretically impossible though. The current one certainly doesn't.
https://byuu.net/input/latency
And I can't find any cached/archived page that does either.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:58:35 2019 No.5960648 >>5960630 It's not though. He re-instated Sameboy for it a while ago, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel for it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 12:59:14 2019 No.5960650 >>5958907 >And there’s many ips panels out there with less input lag than any crt. Bullshit. Fastest LCDs are 240Hz. I own a 200Hz CRT. That extra 40Hz isn't enough to compensate for the slower pixel switching time.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:03:50 2019 No.5960660 File: 27 KB, 1280x720, same.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5960648 Same Boy is awesome but is there a way to disable the boot screen in RetroArch?

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:10:29 2019 No.5960672

>>5960650
Refresh rate and input latency are two drastically different aspects.
Refresh rate can help with input latency, especially when there's a specific number of frames being buffered, but it isn't the same thing at all. It's just the amount of frames per second, not how long they take to display.

Kind of hard to imagine an LCD faster than CRTs though. CRTs take analogue input directly without any need for conversion or buffering, and scan it out immediately as it's being input.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:12:07 2019 No.5960678 >>5960660 Why would you ever want to disable the glorious boot screen?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:33:43 2019 No.5960717 File: 4 KB, 480x432, SameBoy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5960678

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:36:52 2019 No.5960720

Runahead is byproduct of emulation netplay.
Early on to try to reduce lag in online multiplayer, emulator devs ran predicted frames and then hopped between results to try to keep things in synch.
It's a kind of client side prediction, but for the entire machine state instead of just the other player objects.
I think retroarch was the first to implement single player lookahead but I'm probably wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:58:34 2019 No.5960772 I'm trying it out and for the first time in my life I feel like platformers are worth playing on an emulator. Pretty cool stuff there.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 13:59:20 2019 No.5960774

>>5960641
Nevermind I found it.
https://articles.byuu.org/latency
But it is 3 years old full of some assumptions that he himself has revised later on.

He already stated JIT input polling with a reasonable cap for frequency to get around hypothetical pathological cases.
You CAN resample the final audio output. And you only end up with high latency if you allow it. With dynamic resampling and a low buffer size the latency is negligible.

And while you can't take shortcuts for video output to scan it out pixel by pixel, you can speed up the process.
Real hardware takes 16ms to scan out each frame as the frame is being processed.
Emulators on strong hardware can wait until vsync minus 1ms, run the entire frame in <1ms and have it on the back buffer immediately to flip out to the monitor.
And if the monitor is 120Hz then it would only take 8ms to scan out instead of 16, or if it's 180Hz it may take 5.5ms.
Assuming you can prevent triple buffering, anyway, which absolutely requires exclusive fullscreen or killing desktop composition. Independent flip immediate would also work on Win10.

So emulators definitely can get close.

Most importantly, run-ahead wasn't used anywhere at the time of writing.
More than just alleviating buffer time, it cuts out whole frames of lag from WITHIN games. Which is often more lag than emulators add entirely.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:02:19 2019 No.5960784

>>5958798
>but the combat timing in mother 3 never worked until runahead, too much input latency.
That's not true at all. I was able to get 12 hit combos using whichever crappy emulator shortly after the translation was released. You must just be a clumsy uncoordinated autist with no sense of rhythm.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:24:30 2019 No.5960830

>>5960720
There's no prediction. It just saves, runs ahead to display video and audio, then loads.
>>5960784
Indeed. Rhythm is the most important aspect. Prediction, planning, and memorization too.
Quick latency is only absolutely necessary for tight reaction. And tight reaction, specifically, is rarely necessary in most games. Certainly not for Mother 3, or other timed games like Super Mario RPGs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:28:38 2019 No.5960836 >>5958529 It's like ggpo for single player games.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:40:28 2019 No.5960865

>>5958529
>>5960836
No. Run-ahead has nothing to do with prediction/rollback like GGPO or whatever shit Google is pushing.
It just runs frames ahead.
The input for those frames is exactly the same as what the player has pushed in right then. But it doesn't matter because input on those frames isn't used at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AvOa8yt6Vc
It's really, really simple.

It was supposedly inspired by netplay, indeed. But it runs entirely different.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:43:03 2019 No.5960873 >>5960865 Thank you for the simple and straightforward explanation for a retard like me. That doesn't seem so bad then. Honestly it'd probably be beneficial in the long run

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:53:51 2019 No.5960907 >>5960865 >has nothing to do with rollback I think you need to read about how it works because it's fundamentally based on rollback.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:54:00 2019 No.5960912

>>5960641
>But it is the same thing except less input lag. >Or more specifically less output lag, from the console.
>All it does is run frames ahead of time to display the result of your inputs from them, discarding every single one right after.
No, you're explaining it away as some clean thing like switching to a CRT monitor and it's really not. Runahead is dirty, and that's why bugs and glitches pop up with some games when you put the runahead up too much.

>>5960774
>More than just alleviating buffer time, it cuts out whole frames of lag from WITHIN games. >Which is often more lag than emulators add entirely.
But smaller lag than original consoles is cheating. You have to match the console's input lag exactly if you really want to compete on a level playing field. In theory then for some games in some places I guess it could be made to match real hardware exactly, but in practice it's too many variables and too many unknowns.

There's nothing autistic about speedrunners wanting to make sure things are done right, that's just stupid. Speedrunners go after the tiniest of things for improvements. That may be autistic to begin with, but there's no additional autism in wanting to make sure the records are actually legitimate. And similarly, I really don't think you could say you actually beat a really difficult game when using runahead - even though it might play just as well or better that way.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 14:59:54 2019 No.5960928 >>5960907 Obviously it does rollback. I meant rollback to the prediction, like GGPO does. Hence "prediction/rollback" instead of what you misquoted as "rollback". Though that isn't exactly clear, so fine.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 15:10:18 2019 No.5960943

>>5960912
Have you never even touched it before?

It is clean if you only use it to bypass internal lag.
None of the inputs or game logic from the forward frames are used at all until you push it too far.

It is only dirty if you set the frame count too high.
In which case it is glaringly obvious due to skipped animation frames and reverse inertia. So that wouldn't matter for competitive bullshit since it's so easy to tell.
Setting it too high also makes games play fucking awful. Hard to handle, hard to predict, not enjoyable whatsoever.

I said nothing about cheating or fairness there at all whatsoever.
That's entirely up to the community in question that is tracking competitions, and should be discussed there. Just like any other setup or rule.
They can argue all they want about level playing fields and why improvements are bad.
Most communities are also against overclocking, FPS hacks, sprite flicker removal, and a million other improvements too. Many deny even setting resolution higher for 3D systems.
Regardless, it is beyond completely irrelevant anywhere else.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 15:25:01 2019 No.5960984

>>5960251
>improves the experience over OG hardware
I (>>5960207) have never said such a thing.
You misunderstood. What I said is that runahead improves the gameplay experience, and that is correct.
Reducing the lag after each input even if it's by 1 or 2 frames is absolutely and unquestionably an improvement to the gameplay experience.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 15:58:51 2019 No.5961050 I like how not a single one of you fags explain how this is cheating

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 15:59:41 2019 No.5961053 >>5961050 Read the thread and you'll see it explained. Good luck.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 16:37:51 2019 No.5961132 >>5961053 >Read the thread and you see a bunch of autists shitpost FTFY

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 16:39:36 2019 No.5961139 Gay autistic furry weeaboo is like four layers of sperg powerlevel; of course he's capable of this kind of thing.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 16:52:39 2019 No.5961158

>>5961050
For some people playing video games can only ever be a competition. It can only happen within a community and can never be a solitary experience.
So of course any changes to a game that are not officially sanctioned by some nebulous body of rules made by the "community" is bad and "the wrong way to play"™.
That may include all emulation that is not done by the official console makers, savegames/savestates, mods, hacks, fan-translations, software to rebind keys, moddable controllers, etc.
Of course all those rules are subject to change at the whim or daily mood of whatever part of the "community" you humbly beg for permission to be allowed to play games "correctly".

It's just bullshit tribalism with some religious cult trappings thrown in. Don't let anyone tell you how to play games. Ignore and move on.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 16:57:02 2019 No.5961160 >>5961158 >It's just bullshit tribalism with some religious cult trappings So not cheating=tribalism and religiosity now in 2019.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 17:22:27 2019 No.5961204

>>5961158
I'd agree mostly. Except the general statement of "Don't let anyone tell you how to play games".
IF one does does decide to play competitively agreeing to some terms is indeed a must. Even if that means giving up run-ahead, or overclocking, or CRTs, or RGB mods, or anything else, no matter how stupid it seems.
>>5961160
You're overreaching with "not cheating" by assuming that it's factually cheating, set in stone, already.
Assuming something subjective applies globally is more absolutism than it is tribalism, but since it generally requires a tribe to agree with and set rules, sure. That's true in any year.

Absolutely everyone has a different idea of what counts as cheating until rules are established.
Even then, plenty of people refuse to play by those rules, or in the group that set those rules, due to not agreeing with them.
Even within the context of a very competitive group, it's not cheating if everyone participating agrees upon either doing it or allowing it.
TAS, for example, isn't cheating within its competitions. Same with emulation vs real hardware as a whole.

Personally I believe playing without a handicap of buffered frames of input is NOT inherently cheating. No matter how inaccurate it is. As long as everyone involved agrees.
I would patch games to remove it too, given the option.
But I only ever compete with friends, if then.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 17:27:45 2019 No.5961217 >>5961204 Duly noted, but ask yourself, can it "increase the reaction" times of players?

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 17:32:20 2019 No.5961226

>>5961217
No. It can hypothetically reduce the reaction times, sure.
Though memorization, prediction, and rhythm are a million times more important than reaction in speedrunning, and most video games in general.
Not that it matters in the global scope.

As long as all players are playing on equal terms, as close as possible with each other, it's all good.
You can't actually account for absolutely every single variance in setups unless you have everyone playing on the same machine in the same location.
That's one of the main arguments against counting emulation for non-TAS records anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 17:35:09 2019 No.5961227 >>5960912 >There's nothing autistic about speedrunners Gonna stop you right there, chief.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 17:46:48 2019 No.5961251 >>5961139 Adding furry to the mix really brought him from SSJ3 to SSJG. What a difference from just gay autistic weeaboo higan.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 18:03:02 2019 No.5961291

>>5961160
Let people play fucking games. It doesn't take a genius or a word-wall explaining every intricacy of run-ahead to point out how fucking stupid this cheating argument is. For little speedrunning communities, sure, but I don't see any of you seething recordsfags designing a more authentic method of reducing lag. Shut up and cope or fuck off, either way, nobody is having a bad time enjoying their favorite game because some speedrunner wants to throw a tantrum over run-ahead.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 18:33:19 2019 No.5961349 >>5961291 >but I don't see any of you seething recordsfags designing a more authentic method of reducing lag. Connect device to CRT. Done.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 18:34:57 2019 No.5961356

>>5961226
>No. It can hypothetically reduce the reaction times, sure.
As can using a wired controller over a wireless one, a CRT over an LCD, a fast LCD over a failed third party korean IPS, or forcing off triple buffering, or turning vsync entirely off including desktop composition.

If it predicted inputs and gave more optimal results for the game in question, as many people seem to mistakenly believe, that could be considered cheating.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 20:33:02 2019 No.5961583 >>5961349 People are going to play games on emulators, get the fuck over it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 20:37:03 2019 No.5961594 >>5961583 Not him, and that is true. But CRT monitors do exist. They're also sharper and clearer than TVs in most cases. And generally 30kHz+ only so 480p+ or 120Hz+ is usually a requirement.

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 23:29:37 2019 No.5961979

>>5961594
Yes they exist but, surprisingly, not everyone has one, nor are most people interested in tracking down a decent CRT tube just to play some games. And this is coming from someone very, very attached to his Trinitron and very, very vocal about its superiority in gaming. That doesn't mean I'm going to shit all over people for alternatives. Yeah, a 15kHz CRT and original hardware is king, make no doubt about it, but that doesn't justify acting like anything else is the scum of the earth. They're having a less authentic and lower quality experience than me, but if it doesn't ruin the experience for them, who gives a shit?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 23:31:19 2019 No.5961982 >>5961356 Wireless is actually lower latency when using modern fast RF or WiFi direct capable controllers

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 23:32:34 2019 No.5961983 >>5961982 Faster than polling USB at 1000Hz?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 23:46:23 2019 No.5962010 >>5961583 I said device. I play emulated games on a CRT all the time and usually I forget I'm emulating because it's so convincing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 20 23:48:04 2019 No.5962015 Why is runahead so resource hungry? Shouldn't it be able to use modern multi-core processors far more effectively than traditional emulation?

Anonymous Sun Oct 20 23:53:53 2019 No.5962021

>>5962015
Because it's running multiple frames in one frame worth of time. The performance cost of that is roughly a straight multiple of base per frame of run-ahead.
bSNES is already threaded fairly efficiently and can largely max out cores. Not much can be done there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 01:33:20 2019 No.5962192 >>5962015 No, each frame has to run in order. To run other frames on different cores would require knowing the result of other cores before starting. A: 1+2 = 3 B: A+3 = ? You can't solve B until after you solved A.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 22:20:53 2019 No.5963914

>>5960912
>You have to match the console's input lag exactly if you really want to compete on a level playing field.
The people who are going to use this feature aren't fucking competing at anything. Emulators are banned for most WRs in speedrunning, who the fuck cares?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 23:20:55 2019 No.5964045 >>5963914 Local autists, it seems.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 23:53:12 2019 No.5964092

>>5963914
That guy seems to think you couldn't even say you've "beat" a game when using the feature. Like doing so could prevent anyone from making such a claim. As though it invalidates gameplay entirely.
And I'm really not sure if that's sarcasm, satire, hyperbole, or not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 00:39:46 2019 No.5964193 >>5961979 >Yeah, a 15kHz CRT and original hardware is king 30kHz CRT + line doubler is king because it doesn't make that irritating 15kHz whine.

>>	Anonymous ~ Tue Oct 22 00:51:17 2019 No.5964223 >>5960280 cheating would be inserting a "bullet-time" slow-mode. faster games are harder.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 03:14:26 2019 No.5964426

>>5964223
It's not faster though, it's quicker. There is a difference.
Overclocking often makes games faster; and may, in the process, make them harder. Gradius3 and R-type3 come to mind, on the topic of SNES at least.
Run-ahead just makes them quicker. Inputs get in and used, and results get output, sooner. That's it. It doesn't really make anything more difficult. It only makes general timing easier in that there's less delay to adapt to. The only thing it affects besides difficulty in adapting is twitch reaction, as soon as possible, to things displayed.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 13:03:32 2019 No.5965135

>>5960608
No reason to do that when there are cycle-accurate emulations of those systems already available. bsnes going multi-system in the first place was a mistake because nobody cares about a multi-system emulator that can't emulate multiple systems well.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 13:28:38 2019 No.5965193 What is run-ahead? Is it like fake cpu branching or some shit what the fuck

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 13:37:53 2019 No.5965214 >>5965193 The emulator runs the game several frames faster than it's supposed to, thus cancelling out any lag.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 13:38:51 2019 No.5965218 >>5965214 what ? hasn't emulation speed been an option forever

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:05:21 2019 No.5965298

>>5965218
If you get 6ms of lag that's like 3 frames.

Say you see frame 1 and push a button on frame 1. The emulator has already got up to frame 3 in your buffer out to your video cards or at least internal processing.

It backs up to frame 1 and then fast forward to frame 3 to continue smooth output.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:09:11 2019 No.5965307

>>5965218
That guys explanation was horrible.
A better way of explaining it would be the emulator sends controller inputs to the frame ahead. Or two frames ahead or what have you.
Runahead relies on save states, so it works well on 8 and 16-bit console emulators. It's non-functional on 32-bit and up.

I don't know what cpu branching is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:14:07 2019 No.5965329 >>5965298 >If you get 6ms of lag that's like 3 frames. I too own a 500 Hz monitor.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:26:27 2019 No.5965363

>>5965307
Its literally impossible for the emulator to make every possible or even reasonable controller input for the next several frames. It also would have no way to know which frame to put in the frame buffer. It waits for your input and then runs ahead.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:31:26 2019 No.5965373 >>5965329 60 hz. 60 frames per second. 1/60. 1 second every 60 frames. ... .02s per frame. Oh you know what you're right. That's 20 ms.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:34:57 2019 No.5965384

>>5965363
>Its literally impossible for the emulator to make every possible or even reasonable controller input for the next several frames
Why not? An Atari only has four directions and a single button.
Even for the Famicom you only need to predict 8 possible directions and four buttons. It should be perfectly possible to run 512 Famicom emulators simultaneously on a 48 thread processor to simulate all possible inputs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:36:54 2019 No.5965391 Run ahead on ps1 when

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:39:07 2019 No.5965398 >>5965391 You can use runahead on any emulator in Retroarch or similar libretro environments. It's all just a matter of CPU power.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:40:51 2019 No.5965408 >>5965398 Runahead crashes on anything that uses gpu, try for yourself

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:41:26 2019 No.5965412

>>5965307
It plays nice with mednafen for ps1 as long as you're not using analog functionality. The second you spin thr stick in circles and buffer 360 inputs every half second it shits itself. But if you're just using the dpad then it works well. Feels super good with Gradius Gaiden and SotN

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:41:36 2019 No.5965414 >>5965408 So why use the GPU when you can use the CPU?

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:49:50 2019 No.5965442

>>5965135
Higan lets him sperg out all he wants on something we don't have to use. As long as he doesn't fuck up Bsnes again who cares? Not like there's anything left to do for the SNES anyway. If he's ever not a one hit wonder then maybe he'll make a Bsnes for another system.
>>5965384
Select and start aren't used much so just let them have the normal lag when pressed. Now you only need nine Dpad states (no direction pressed counts) and two button states, so 36 NES emulators at once. Very easy to do with a 4 core CPU.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 14:56:42 2019 No.5965463

>>5965307
>>5965218
>>5965298
So let me get cis straight.

If you are pressing button X on frame N,
then the emulator computes frame N+1, N+2, N+3 etc assuming you are still pressing X?

That's more or less exactly what CPU branch prediction is. If it comes over a conditional jump many times, it will eventually assume the condition is true, and do all the computations. Not sure why this helps since it still has to check the condition (may be it can reorder some operations for speed) but it is crucial to have today.

So basically you are emulating branch prediction based on player input.

Now why doesnt this already occur? I have now fucking idea.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:02:49 2019 No.5965475

>>5965384
Okay so that's one frame of states

Now let's do two frames. That's 36*36. Three frames. 36*36*36. Oh these all have somewhere betweenn8 amd 4megs of ram allocated to them. Does your cpu have 746 gigs of cache to push around inall these possible configurations?

Continuing on one path, and backing up and correcting it if a different input is received is a very different fucking problem from predicting all possible inputs ahead of time, which still leaves you with no way to pick one to put into the frame buffer

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:09:02 2019 No.5965486 >>5965475 The Famicom has 2kB of RAM.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:10:54 2019 No.5965493 >>5965486 It might need to address a large game. 2kb would still be 93 gigs

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:12:41 2019 No.5965496 >>5965414 Where I really wanted to use run ahead was with psp emulation, ps1 has a software renderer but saturn doesnt

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:17:08 2019 No.5965506 >>5965493 The game doesn't change depending on your input. 93GB RAM isn't really that much. Modern chipsets support up to 3TB of RAM. 128GB should only cost you about $500 at the moment so money isn't an end all argument either.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:20:36 2019 No.5965516 >>5965506 Okay but run ahead clearly fucking works on a raspberry pi potato so it doesnt depend on 96 gigs of ram because it doesnt work the way you fucking think it does, jesus.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:23:27 2019 No.5965519 >>5965516 It works in a hacky kind of way and Byuu's video shows it. Multithreaded branch presumptive execution is the way for the future.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:27:13 2019 No.5965527 https://byuu.net/input/run-ahead

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:37:55 2019 No.5965559 >>5965527 >5 machines are emulated. Boy that sounds a lot.more reasonable than 36 or 512 or 8! Machines.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:43:49 2019 No.5965583

>>5965559
Not when you consider that every modern processor is multi-core and this can only utilize a single one.
>You cannot offload frame generation to a multi-core CPU, because each frame has to be rendered in-order, one at a time. In other words, it's a serial process.
So if your Threadripper or Xeon can handle 8 SNES serially, it could also handle 512 parallel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:50:22 2019 No.5965609 >>5965559 And 36 only works for single player NES. Not going to work for two player SNES. It's a stupid idea. I might be a dumbass but I can't conceptually imagine how it'd differ from run ahead of 1. You still have to show a frame in the future.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:58:03 2019 No.5965639

Man, this is some Back to the Future level mindfuck. If it wasn't complicated it would have been thought of by emulator writers decades ago. If you change your input dramatically then all the runahead will be bullshit. It's throwing accurate emulation out the window.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 15:59:24 2019 No.5965645 File: 44 KB, 755x1255, Trollface.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5965583 Your system memory is also not nearly fast enough to support this, and even a thread ripper doesnt have 96 gigs of ram onboard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 16:04:53 2019 No.5965657 testarooni

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 16:15:46 2019 No.5965683 >>5965645 Threadripper supports up to 2TB of RAM. Common TR4 mainboards support up to 128GB. DDR5 RAM isn't that far into the future either.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 16:37:18 2019 No.5965732 >>5965683 I'm talking about your CPU cache. What the fuck are you arguing for at this point? Some dumb unnecessary impossible game state prediction?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 16:57:11 2019 No.5965774 >>5965442 >If he's ever not a one hit wonder and your projects are?

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 17:32:41 2019 No.5965832

>>5965463
Whether you're still pressing X or not is completely irrelevant because it doesn't get used within the audiovisually displayed frames.
It's not prediction at all.
See >>5960865 that Youtube video.
All it does is:
>Take inputs
>Save state
>Run a specified number of frames as fast as possible without outputting anything from them
>Run the final frame while outputting video and audio
>Load state
All that does is bypass any buffering of inputs or outputs. Since, when configured properly, it displays only the frame that the action from the inputs gets used on.

Since it only displays up to the point that the "current" frame(Input polling and run-ahead's saved state) inputs and game logic get used and displayed, nothing past that matters.
It doesn't even fuck up RNG at all. Since again, nothing calculated past the first frame matters for anything displayed; it's all thrown out upon loading.

It is 100% separate from video card buffering, display latency, or anything else.
It is ONLY for delay WITHIN games.

Like holy FUCK the amount of people that still think it's absurdly prediction based is astonishing, given how many times it's been explained, both here and elsewhere.

Anonymous Tue Oct 22 17:51:58 2019 No.5965868

>>5965412
That doesn't make any sense at all, given it's not prediction based, runs all frames constantly no matter what input you use, and just save+loads states.
Using analogue shouldn't cause any problems. It's just 4 slightly larger values in memory (2 axes for 2 sticks) to save and load.

I can't get it to work well at all on beetle anything though. As it just locks up shortly after turning it on.
Probably because I'm still using a system with DDR3 RAM, so old I've forgotten what speed it's running at. Maybe bottlenecking the rate at which it can save/load states.
>>5965527
Oh yay, byuu clearly explaining it in text too.
And
>This raises an important question when it comes to the use of run-ahead in competitive gaming: is run-ahead cheating?
>Reducing input latency will certainly give a skilled player an advantage.
>In my view, as long as the use of run-ahead and the number of frames skipped is disclosed and consistent among all players, it becomes a fair playing field.
>But it's up to others to decide whether they view this as acceptable or cheating.
>When it comes to solo, non-competitive playing, I really can't see why it would matter, but to each their own of course. Run-ahead is just one more powerful option for people who are interested in reducing input latency in emulation.
I like this rational and reasonable byuu.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 19:06:42 2019 No.5966019 >>5958389 I'm sure it can be turned off for the SNES Olympics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 19:10:20 2019 No.5966026 >>5958389 Opinion discarded due to belief that world records should be done in emulators

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/vr/ - Retro Games