/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5928502]

Are shmups as hard and good as they say?
Seems like a meme genre.

[Anonymous No.5928506]

They're alright for soiboos but not as great as the chad JRPGs.

[Anonymous No.5928513]

>>5928502
>hard
yes, in most cases completing a shmup without credit feeding requires high amount of skill and also practice with that particular game.
>>5928502
>good
that's subjective, the fun in shmups is shooting enemies and dodging bullets, if you find that fun, then shmups will be good for you.

[Anonymous No.5928543]

>>5928502
Why don't you try some out instead of making dumb bait threads

[Anonymous No.5928616]

>>5928543
Playing a few shmups doesn't give deep knowledge of the genre. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.5928632]

Yeah theyre pretty sick about as pure as vidya gets, just no nonsense straightforward fun with tight controls and good amount of challenge & depth. Difficulty depends on goal & game. Theres some that are blind 1cc tier, and others that are absurdly difficult even without getting into scoring. But even most of the hardest ones have very reasonable first loops or lower difficulty modes.

[Anonymous No.5928667]

Precision platformers > shmups. There's no reason to rape your eyesight for the fuck of it. A lot of precision platformers also require a tapping technique, so the skill ceiling is way higher.

[Anonymous No.5928674]

>>5928667
>plays one danmaku
>goes crosseyed
>goes back to Bing Bing wahooo platformers
Lel. you don't know where to look if your eyes are straining.

[Anonymous No.5928681]

>>5928667
>There's no reason to rape your eyesight
megacope.

[Anonymous No.5928685]

>>5928667
I've had issues with eye strain from vidya and shmups are one of the least straining genres, any FPS or racing game will obliterate your eyes compared to shmups. As the other anon said you just have to know where to look. Precision platformers are generally much easier and don't have the depth, in fact the lack of depth is partly what defines the genre. The only exceptions would be games like N++, but that's soulless sterile shit outside of the good mechanics.

[Anonymous No.5928713]

>>5928632
>even without getting into scoring.
Look son, with shmups, it's just like life: only your mom cares if you're surviving. What everyone else wants to know is how much you're scoring.

[Anonymous No.5928717]

>>5928667
You are a baby

[Anonymous No.5928720]

>>5928717
Nice tool assisted video

[Anonymous No.5928729]

>>5928713
Wisdom

[Anonymous No.5928731]

>>5928713
And then there's poser faggots like you who can neither 1cc nor get good scores.

[Anonymous No.5928735]

>>5928502
Is there a single genre within videogames that can defeat shmups?
Mind you, I'm not talking about space shooters or vertical shooters with bullet hell elements nor your typical horizontal cave shooter, and I'm certainly not implying run-and-gun sidescrollers or isometric scrollers let alone multidirectional shooters consisting of the classic vector type and the modern "twin stick" shooters, and I'm certainly not insinuating rail shooters of both the flight simulator or the awkward moving character variety, and niether am I implying competitive puzzle shooters or even trackpad point-and-click shooters, but rather the arcade classic Wizard of Wor.

[Anonymous No.5928736]

Is using autofire acceptable in shmups with tapping like Batsugun? I have a fucked up hand and don't want to damage it further. I know it screws up the difficulty in some games that don't limit the fire rate. Is that the case with Batsugun?

[Anonymous No.5928742]

>>5928736
Yes its accepted as long as you specify that you used autofire but more importantly wtf anon are you retarded just use autofire youre playing for fun are you not, getting rsi from games is going full retard. If you think its too easy pick Iceman instead of Beltiana so it balances out

[Anonymous No.5928746]

>>5928736
But to answer directly yes Batsugun difficulty breaks a bit when using autofire, you get more dps but its not too crazy compared to other older shmups

[Anonymous No.5928753]

>>5928742
>>5928746
Thanks anon. It's not too bad, but my messed up hand started hurting after playing today. Beat the stage 4 boss without dying for the first time at least.
>are you retarded
Probably a little. Mostly just wanted to confirm it doesn't give a crazy advantage in this case.

[Anonymous No.5928760]

>>5928753
Could set it to a frequency that you can realistically pull off yourself so there's that

[Anonymous No.5928762]

>>5928760
Good idea, might do that

[Anonymous No.5928772]

>>5928731
If only you knew who you were talking to.

[Anonymous No.5928774]

>>5928736
When you post your world record replay just make sure to state you used "autofire". It's not cheating, lots of people use autofire and specify it. Many jap arcades installed autofire buttons anyway.

Check here https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=38524
ctrl+f Batsugun to see what score you need. Good luck

[Anonymous No.5928785]

>>5928742
Tried using Iceman, I think I like him better than Beltiana. Feels like I need to tap less as him too.
>>5928774
Nice. I saw autofire being listed with scores like that, but figured it was a bigger deal for some games. Didn't know that about jap arcades.

[Anonymous No.5928965]

>>5928785
how far are you in Batsugun? I'm trying to clear it now, just need to learn stage 4 boss and last boss, then put it all together.
Then milking tactics i suppose for some scoring.

[Anonymous No.5928992]

>>5928965
I can usually get to stage 4 without much trouble, just trying to get consistent at beating it now. The stage 4 boss was a huge pain at first, but I'm starting to understand it now. I'm still not sure how avoid his attacks in the final segment yet, so I'm using a bunch of bombs on the last part. The stage itself isn't too bad, but it feels long compared to the first three. Haven't tried stage 5 much yet.

Which ship are you using?

[Anonymous No.5928997]

>>5928502
They're challenging but also 90% memorization, so determine for yourself if that's fun.

[Anonymous No.5929004]

>>5928997
They aren't, mostly they're about execution but strategy also plays a part, memorization's just the bare minimum, it won't get you far if you don't put in the hours practicing, and if your routes are shit you'll have a hard and less productive time practicing.

[Anonymous No.5929027]

>>5928502
What is this faggy edit you absolute faggot

[Anonymous No.5929029]

>>5928965
Done with it in like 1998. I can easily counter stop Batsugun as it is the easiest of Toaplan shmups by far.

[Anonymous No.5929039]

>>5929029
Viamana and Slap Fight are easier Toaplan.
Special edition Bat is very easy to clear 1st loop, compared to original, but counter-stopping it 4-loops is not easy at all. So I'm doubtful of your claims.

[Anonymous No.5929045]

>>5929039
How much harder is the original version's first loop compared to Special?

[Anonymous No.5929046]

>>5929039
No
It's more easy.
You are noob.
Get good.

[Anonymous No.5929048]

>>5929039
You are suck then. Maybe only us Asians (HK!) are good as shooting games. Not western gamers.

[Anonymous No.5929051]

>>5929045
Check the difficulty list.
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1157621#p1157621

Batsugun Original is 12
Special Ed is 3. That's a huge difference.

But on the other hand clearing 4-loops of Special Ed is 24. And potentially 29 depending on the shit type.

>>5929046
weak troll

[Anonymous No.5929053]

>>5929045
A lot harder, special can be 1cc'd blind if you've got shmup experience while the original requires a few hours of practice

[Anonymous No.5929054]

>>5929051
Get better you kiddie

[Anonymous No.5929060]

>>5929051
>>5929053
I see. I'll stick with the original for now then.

[Anonymous No.5929068]

>>5929054
>>5929048
What are you good at now?
You must've been playing shmups for decades if you "counter stopped" that game in 1998.

[Anonymous No.5929071]

>>5929053
>a few hours of practice
what is a few?
4hrs? or 14hrs?

[Anonymous No.5929073]

>>5929071
2 years

[Anonymous No.5929078]

>>5929071
Fuck if I know, everyone's rate of improvement is different, took me like 5-6 hrs

[Anonymous No.5929082]

>>5929078
What clears did you have under your belt prior?

[Anonymous No.5929084]

>>5929082
A good amount, some entry level caves like Mushi Original, DP, DDP, Deathsmiles and Esprade and some others like TF3, Hyper Duel, Gradius, etc.

[Anonymous No.5929087]

>>5929084
Oh that's pretty good, nice.
What are you playing now?

[Anonymous No.5929094]

>>5929087
Gunvolt Luminous Avenger iX

[Anonymous No.5929101]

>>5929094

[Anonymous No.5929106]

>>5929094
t4n3?
whats the appeal of those games?

[Anonymous No.5929108]

>circle jerk: the thread

[Anonymous No.5929112]

>>5929108
This thread is cool, nihilistic, and great. This is what being masculine and dandy is all about.

[Anonymous No.5929114]

>>5929106
Fuck no. It's just fun to bounce around levels building chains even though it looks stupid in videos and the boss fights are really well made, if you're a 13 y/o weeb the aesthetics might be up your alley too

[Anonymous No.5929125]

>>5929112
>cognitive dissonance: the post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTATk-25sOQ

[Anonymous No.5929132]

>>5929125
>doesn't know shmup references
Maybe the Mario thread is more your style.

[Anonymous No.5929153]

>>5929132
Nobody cares about your autistic memes

[Anonymous No.5929313]

>>5928667
wtf is a precision plateformer? do you mean megaman zero and the likes?

[Anonymous No.5929316]

>>5928502
>are all shmups hard?
No, but on average they tended to be fairly difficult.
>are all of entries in an extremely large and long lived genre good?
Yes. Every single one of them is great.

[Anonymous No.5929320]

>>5929004
The routs that you have to memorize lol. It's just a rhythm game with a different aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.5929326]

>>5929313
Super Meat Boy, Dustforce, I Wanna Be The Guy and other meme platformers where you have to make extremely precise jumps with checkpoints every 3 seconds

[Anonymous No.5929334]

>>5929320
Unless you're copying someone else's routes you don't memorize them, you discover them by using game knowledge and critical thinking. There's a lot of variety there, tons of players bash their head against walls because they're not sharp enough to pick up better routes, and scoring adds a shit ton of variability in general.

[Anonymous No.5929338]

>>5929326
sounds absolutely unfun, sorry

Just let me chain stuff and blow things up

[Anonymous No.5929346]

>>5928502
They're about as difficult as memorizing digits of pi. Literally no gameplay element to them. It's hilarious to watch shmupdrones rag on jrpgs for being grindy and then turn right back around and harp on about how "simon but longer" is the pinnacle of gaming.

[Anonymous No.5929351]

>>5929346
Try playing them instead of going by reputation, fag

[Anonymous No.5929361]

>>5929346
cope.

[Anonymous No.5929368]

>>5929351
I've probably put around 200 hours into the genre. Skill doesn't transfer from game to game. If you take someone who has 1ccd mushihime then put them on some cave shooter they've never played, they'll make it to the 4th level at best. It's literally nothing but memorization, and at that point you might as well pick up some flash cards and learn japanese while you're at it, so you can enjoy the superior genre.

[Anonymous No.5929376]

>>5929368
How about all those players who blind 1cc'd Mushihimesama and DDP first loop which take new players 10 or even 20 hrs? The genre has plenty of transferable skills. I don't see why that even matters much though, it's satisfying to see yourself get better at a genre but if all new games use the same skillset and don't give new challenges to figure out, they just become boring and pointless.

[Anonymous No.5929389]

>>5929376
New players don't clear ddp in ten hours or even 20. But skill transfer is real and beneficial.
>>5929368
Shmup memo is fun if you enjoy the gameplay and extract info by yourself. Unless you are a dim copy monkey who mimics others replays 100% its fun to figure out starts/routes.

[Anonymous No.5929396]

>>5929376
>blind 1cc'd Mushihimesama and DDP first loop
Who did that?

[Anonymous No.5929402]

>>5929396
https://youtu.be/r2mUkJBCkbg
This fag comes to mind, there were others too but I cant remember them now. It's nothing special, completely feasible with enough carry over skill and some luck

[Anonymous No.5929421]

>>5928502
Explain what you mean by "meme genre"

[Anonymous No.5929438]

>>5929421
Anything that hasn't been adequately rpg-ified is a meme genre to zoomers.

[Anonymous No.5929441]

>>5929402
>DUDE trust me I've never played this game before
Anon....

[Anonymous No.5929448]

>>5929438
I just wish I knew what they meant, honestly I doubt OP knows himself. It seems like people use meme as a catch-all word.

[Anonymous No.5929457]

>>5929441
It's all aimless flailing, even if he played the game more than he suggests it clearly wasn't enough to know the patterns. The fact that nobody really gives enough of a shit to investigate the claim is also telling, because it's nothing remarkable. If you play the genre enough you'll get some similar runs yourself sooner or later.

[Anonymous No.5929593]

>>5929457
He played a lot of DOJ, Ketsui, Galuda and more importantly Mushi Futari Original. There's lots of similar patterns from Futari to regular Mushi, heck the final stage of Mushi is a modified version of stage 3 Futari.
A lot of the patterns can be tap dodged in similar ways.

Guy is probably lying that he only played it once before, but whatever, it's not that big of a deal given a big enough background with Mushi games.

[Anonymous No.5929606]

>>5928502
Just play one you fool. They are a nice easy to pick up and play genre. Hard to achieve mastery on, but a quick fun romp even without the autism.

[Anonymous No.5929630]

>>5928502

no MARIO games are BETTER and HARDER

[Anonymous No.5929932]

Play Tyrian. It's the best DOS vertical shooter and it's free.

[Anonymous No.5931032]

>>5929932
No.

[Anonymous No.5931038]

What are good shmups to start out with?

[Anonymous No.5931051]

>>5931038
Batsugun Special, Flying Shark, Sengoku Ace, Darius Gaiden, R Type Leo, Gradius Gaiden, Hyper Duel, Giga Wing, Deathsmiles, Mushihimesama Original, Armed Police Batrider beginner and normal course

Pick which ever looks good, some of them will put up a fight but they are all on the easy side

[Anonymous No.5931057]

>>5929593
Yeah that's my point, a lot of the basic dodging techniques carry over from game to game, especially bullet hells which are lenient with hitboxes and bullet speeds. Pattern reading skills improve with time, panic bombing gets better and that's to say nothing about improving learning methods. It won't carry you through the vast majority of games but it's def noticeable.

[Anonymous No.5931196]

>>5931057
>especially bullet hells which are lenient with hitboxes and bullet speeds
You say that as if it makes them easier than classic shmups, it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.5931218]

>>5931196
Nah, bullet hells are much harder on average and game difficulty can't be boiled down to just bullet speed, hitbox size, or even bullet count. But slower bullets are more reactable, which makes a huge difference when it comes to lower tier shmups with simpler patterns