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/vr/ - Retro Games

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5913489 No.5913489 [Reply] [Original]

>RPGs are a grinding genre
Reminder that anyone who thinks this literally doesn't have the IQ necessary to appreciate the genre. This is the type of person who will walk into a new shop, see the prices, and immediately think that he needs to grind out the gold to get the optimal equipment. Guess what retard? You don't need the optimal equipment. RPGs are essentially an optimization puzzle, and you just failed it.

>> No.5913494

>Dragon Quest III
>fight a boss at level 13
>get creamed
>grind
>level 14
>fight boss at level 14
>win easily
Get the fuck out.

>> No.5913496

>>5913494
The NES was getting the kinks out. Don't use that as an example, you disingenuous faggot.

>> No.5913524 [DELETED] 

They aren't optimization puzzles, they aren't even puzzles at all they are more like playgrounds where the players can develop their own style without worrying about efficiency, and get an "experience" rather than a focused structured game. Treating them as optimization puzzles ignores just about every aspect of the games, their history as a genre and their intent expressed both by designers and within the games themselves. It also presupposes that the player already knows the game, rather than a first time playthrough, in a genre that's infamous for how much shit you have to go through if you want to replay games.

>> No.5913527

>>5913524
t. bad at situational choices

>> No.5913529

>>5913496
>Don't use that as an example
This is /vr/, not /v/.

>> No.5913535

>>5913529
It's utterly unfair to judge a genre at its infancy. You make mistakes, learn from them, and improve. This applies to all gaming genres.

>> No.5913539 [DELETED] 

>>5913527
What situational choices? This is a genre with games which have a dedicated optimal gear button to make sure you never have to think. I'd understand if you were talking about western RPG's or strategy hybrids, but JRPG's are absolutely braindead

>> No.5913541

>>5913539
What's the most difficult RPG you've ever played?

>> No.5913542 [DELETED] 

>>5913541
The Dark Spire, Strange Journey, Etrian Odyssey games

>> No.5913546 [DELETED] 
File: 170 KB, 1280x720, xp_grind_reminder.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5913546

Progression systems were a mistake.

Also RPGtrannies need to 40% themselves.

>> No.5913547

>>5913542
None of those have a dedicated gear button. Whatever the fuck that means.

>> No.5913553 [DELETED] 

>>5913547
So what, it's an extreme example to demonstrate a point. Most of these games don't even have enough equipment to sort through at any given time to need this kind of button

>> No.5913557

>>5913553
Extreme example? You're talking about games that you haven't even played you stupid faggot.

>> No.5913558

only redditors hate JRPG.

>> No.5913560

>>5913558
This, quite frankly.

>> No.5913568 [DELETED] 

>>5913557
Low IQ response. Just because games on the more difficult end of the JRPG spectrum like TDS, SMT and EO don't have an optimize gear button doesn't mean no RPG's have it, Final Fantasy does and plenty of others do too though I can't be arsed looking for examples. You dumb nerds need to calm down

>> No.5913569 [DELETED] 

>>5913558
https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/

doesn't look that way to me.

>> No.5913570

>>5913568
>You dumb nerds
I'm one person, you histrionic bitch.

>> No.5913573 [DELETED] 

>>5913570
You're a type of person that's very common. Leave your jap crap aside and play some better RPGs at the very least

>> No.5913574

It's easy to get suckered into grinding and getting more powerful and then brute forcing every boss with no effort.

I've been on a JRPG click lately and have been going through them with the minimal of combat, avoiding if possible running away when more convenient than fighting and I'm finding there very little challenge (but I guess that's not the point of JRPGs).

I think the thing is when you're a kid you don't realize that this bot is revolving around this fairly obvious mechanic and a particular strategy and equipment set can easily overcome it, you just think "boss killed me, I get more levels."

>> No.5913575

>>5913573
Ah, I see, you're the exact type of person that I expected. Thanks for falling into my trap, you retarded commie.

>> No.5913581 [DELETED] 

>>5913575
LMAO so this the IQ sharpened by repeating a loop of attack magic heal for 200 hours

>> No.5913585

>>5913581
If you actually played EO, SMT, and the other hardcore JRPGs you namedropped, you'd know that's a failing strategy.

>> No.5913590

wrpgfags mad again.

>> No.5913595 [DELETED] 

>>5913585
That strategy works on 99% of the fights, only bosses are different and you need to apply some buffs/debuffs and get your tanks to soak in some damage or whatever the fuck, and repeat that with minimal changes for the entire fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QaBOX5nc7U

Check this out, 40 minutes doing the same shit in slightly different order

>> No.5913597

>>5913590
It's extremely telling that these faggots got into a tizzy when I didn't even mention JRPGs. The OP clearly only talks about general RPGs.

>> No.5913601

>>5913595
You're literally retarded. It sounds low effort, I know, but you simply don't know what you're talking about. Kill yourself.

>> No.5913606 [DELETED] 

>>5913601
Oof, outed and mad. Anyone can just check the video and see it themselves, fact is most fights in these games are over before you even start them, you figure out a simple tactic you'll repeat for the whole fight based on your skills/equipment and win

>> No.5913608 [DELETED] 

>>5913597
>trying to lump your 20 IQ genre with western games that don't even get the "it's grindy" criticism

You are transparent

>> No.5913610

>>5913606
You don't know the best skills/equipment before you go into the battle, you retarded faggot. That's why it's called an 'optimization puzzle'. Any stupid faggot can look up a guide and win.

>> No.5913616 [DELETED] 

>>5913610
You don't need the best skills and equipment to win just something decent that works, there's tons of perfectly viable builds and strategies and none of them are complex or demanding, outside of optional postgame bosses which actually are grindy more often than not

>> No.5913620

>>5913616
What was your build in EO? Any of the games, just go ahead.

>> No.5913626 [DELETED] 

>>5913620
How the fuck am I meant to remember something like that? The only thing that sticks out of any of the games mentioned is using low level reflect demons to btfo Mem Aleph when fucking around in SJ, the rest is a blur

>> No.5913628

>>5913626
That isn't EO, you stupid faggot. I'm done responding to you.

>> No.5913629

>>5913489
People who think that if you are a fan of Mother 2/Earthbound and Mother 3 you shouldn't play Mother 1 because it's a grindy slog are wrong and absolute plebeians. It's an easy RPG near the end till you get a difficulty spike but it's still not even that bad. I grinded more in Pplemom as a kid. And what the fuck are you doing playing RPGs if you cant stomach turn based combat and a hit? Fucking plebeians.


When mother 1 came out I saw literal children play the game, enjoy it, with no problem knowing where to go

>> No.5913631 [DELETED] 

>>5913628
No shit it isn't, EO's a mess of creating new party members, different skill trees, similar classes across the 3 games I played and SUBCLASSES, I ain't remembering that kind of shit get outta here

>> No.5913632

>>5913629
Nah, Mother is pretty grindy, don't lie.

>> No.5913642

I love grinding and am an anime girl trapped in a man' body

>> No.5913645

westcucks are pathetic.

>> No.5913646

>>5913642
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5913659

>>5913646
yeah, amerifats are worth loads of EXP

>> No.5913660 [DELETED] 
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5913660

Face it weebs, the west destroyed japan when it comes to RPG's and strategy. You play J"RPG"s if you want a mindless escapist fantasy, you play WRPG's if you truly want to think

>> No.5913667

>>5913659
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5913671

>wrpgs
>good
i will play arcade games thanks.

>> No.5913684

the average wrpgfag
https://yuki.la/v/477845112
https://yuki.la/v/477868950

>> No.5913698 [DELETED] 

>>5913671
Want your complimentary soilent bottle? Oh wait, you play JRPG weeb you should have more than enough saved up
>>5913684
>linking /v/ threads
How about you go back there instead of shitting up /vr/ with your dumb apologism threads.

>> No.5913704

>>5913698
whatever redditor.

>> No.5913707

>>5913684
oh wow

>> No.5913709
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5913709

>> No.5913728

>>5913489
also, ADD zoomers that run from every battle and then complain about the game never giving you enough experience for the boss
fight every battle until the enemies can be one hit, or until the experience isn't worth it. stock up on items. and then you'll be able to beat every boss

>> No.5913750

>>5913728
>spending time to trivialize a game
Something I don't want to do to accomplish something I don't want to happen? Genius!

>> No.5913754

>>5913750
What are you even talking about, you stupid faggot?

>> No.5913762
File: 136 KB, 1719x1719, 11698930_10155830045685381_2335394849354282770_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5913762

I have to make a big confession...

My favoite genre is JRpgs, and ive always posted on forums about it, talk with everyone i met about how i love JRPGs... but truth is.... ive never beat any of the top games ever made.

FF7 stopped in the middle of disc 2, Chronno Trigger stopped after getting the sun stone, FF6 stopped after the "world ended"... ive played dozens of RPGs, but never managed to finish them, only one i remember finishing is Mario RPG.
Am i a loser? im 35 by the way.

>> No.5913767

>>5913762
thats a dude

>> No.5913768 [DELETED] 

>>5913762
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5913773

>>5913762
weird coincidence, I also stopped chrono trigger after getting the sun stone, though not out of lack of interest

>> No.5913778

>>5913773
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5913792 [DELETED] 

>>5913546
Reminder that the study you are referencing means 40% of trans people in the study reported having suicidal ideation. It doesn't mean 40% of trans people kill themselves.

>> No.5913794

>>5913768
Weird, I thought it was Saudi Arabian royal family. I really wish the US government wasn't busy eating their shit every day.

>> No.5913795

>>5913767
no she isnt... i know for a fact if you know what i mean.

>>5913768
/pol/ is this way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>5913773
i still have the cartdridge with my save file, i think i stopped playing becauseLAvos as kicking my ass when i tried to fight him going throw the bucket gate. FF7, FF9, FF6 i still have the carts, games and memory cards with my savefiles but i just cant find myself in the mood to picking them up again.

>> No.5913797

>>5913794
>Weird, I thought it was Saudi Arabian royal family.
Retard.

>> No.5913801

>>5913792
Reminder that 40% of the population wants you to fucking kill yourself, tranny.

>> No.5913805 [DELETED] 
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5913805

>>5913792

>> No.5914041

>>5913794
Saudi Arabian royal family are jews

>> No.5914063

>>5913489
Usually I never grind in RPGs and I never had difficulty with them. I must also admit that I never played one RPG that came before than 1990 though.

>> No.5914072 [DELETED] 
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5914072

>>5913489
There are games about optimization that don't have the cancer that is RPG stat systems.
They're called puzzle games.

>> No.5914097

>>5914072
Those involve timing. Completely different skillsets.

>> No.5914106 [DELETED] 

>>5914097
They involve more than just timing, but I wouldn't expect an RPGfag to be skilled enough at games to know that.

>> No.5914108

>>5914106
I didn't say they exclusively involve timing, you stupid faggot.

>> No.5914161

Rpg video "games" Japanese or Western were a fucking mistake. They're failed abortions of pen and paper mechanics. They've never been fun and only appeal to number austists and waifufags.

>> No.5914163 [DELETED] 

>>5914161
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5914164

>>5913489
>RPGs are essentially an optimization puzzle, and you just failed it.
Except it's impossible to tell what's important until after you've tried it leading to guessing half the time. You are better off relaxing and enjoying the game, making sensible decisions than trying to calculate the optimized way of doing everything like a pure autist.

>> No.5914169

>>5914164
>guessing half the time
Fucking brainlet.

>> No.5914183

>>5914161
Number autists are alright, it's the waifufags you have the worry about. The former are into w/cRPGs, and the latter lean toward jRPGs

>> No.5914191

>>5914183
>have the worry
Kill yourself, Miguel.

>> No.5914217

I actually like the grinding aspect of those games.

>> No.5914227

>>5914217
Good man. There's honestly nothing wrong with grinding, stupid JRPG haters have made it out to be a sin.

>> No.5914228

>>5913489

Autistically min-maxing everything in a JRPG is very obviously not the intended way to play it because the game usually doesn't give you the tools to see the numbers and make decisions based on that. You learn that from trial-and-error and outside sources. The "learn to optimize" argument is a pathetic swipe from people who think it legitimizes RPGs as a "thinking man's genre" when people criticize them for being story games. Guess what, they ARE story games. RPGs 100% about the experience of being immersed in a different world and situations. Whatever numerical systems exist as there to give shape to the player's decision-making and instill the combat with a sense of stakes.

>> No.5914229

nu-/vr/ thread.

>> No.5914231

>>5914228
>The "learn to optimize" argument is a pathetic swipe from people who think it legitimizes RPGs as a "thinking man's genre"
Your projection is showing.

>> No.5914259

What I don't understand is that the same people who will complain about "grinding" in a 25-30 hour JRPG will spend 5,000 hours playing something like Skyrim.

>> No.5914281

>>5914259
Oops, you just stumbled upon the NPC secret.

>> No.5914291

>>5913489
>anyone who thinks this literally doesn't have the IQ necessary to appreciate the genre
This is absolutely true, their IQ is likely too high for it.

>> No.5914292

>>5914291
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5914304

turn based RPGs are a shit genre that should no longer exist, but I put that aside long enough to finish earthbound. Just because it has good enough art and music that it carries the whole game

>> No.5914307

>>5914304
Based normalfag.

>> No.5914317

>>5914304
Same, but the combat in EB was absolute ass. The whole game felt as if it were a fun game that doesn't let you enjoy it.

>> No.5914320

>>5914317
lmao, then why did you play it?

>> No.5914343

>>5913496
FF9 on your beloved PS1 was the same shit. You could basically get fucked over and barely able to survive in some places until you grinded your shit up.

>> No.5914345

>>5914343
FF9 is a shit game, you RPGlet.

>> No.5914458

>>5913529
Yeah, and RPGs were at their peak in 4th/5th gen. FF8, Chrono Cross, and Paper Mario are three off the top of my head that require little to no grinding. Other than maybe the last area of the game and trying to get Poo's gear I don't really remember much grinding in Earthbound either. Whether or not you think these games are any good is another story

>> No.5914464 [DELETED] 

>>5914458
You're correct in that those games don't require grinding, but your taste in games is absolute nigger tier.

>> No.5914490

>>5914464
>nigger tier
No, I don't spend all my time playing DBZ, Naruto, NBA2K and Street Fighter. But like I said, whether or not you think those games are good has zero bearing on the argument that was presented. Don't get me wrong, I liked them as a kid, but as I've gotten older they're hard to sit through.

>> No.5914491

>>5914490
>DBZ, Naruto, NBA2K and Street Fighter
Kill yourself, retard.

>> No.5914497

>>5914491
What do the brothers you know like to play?

>> No.5914504

>>5914497
When I say "nigger tier" I'm not talking about race, you stupid faggot. Nigger means 'subhuman'.

>> No.5914517

>>5914504
Save it, edgelord

>> No.5914519

>>5914517
Kiss my ass.

>> No.5914527

>>5913698
>>5913704
Lets agree that both of you insufferable douchebags are ruining /vr/

>> No.5914530

>>5913797
>>5914041
Nope, they hate jews just like you braindead poltarded degenerates. This is a basic fact! If you can't handle it, maybe you should leave America.

>> No.5914531

>>5914519
>nigger - a contemptuous term for a black or dark-skinned person
Your brainlet understanding of what the word means doesn't represent reality. But by your personal definition of the word, your contribution to this thread has been nigger-tier

>> No.5914535

>>5914531
How about you look at a dictionary that isn't sucking down gefilte fish?

>> No.5914540

>>5914535
Yeah, you're one of those people who says shit like, "There are black people, and there are niggers." That definition is more comfortable for you because you love the word. But of course you never say it around blacks, do you?

>> No.5914554

>>5914540
No, there are only niggers. Go back to r*ddit.

>> No.5914560
File: 8 KB, 210x240, images.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5914560

>>5913496
>>5914345
Grinding reduces difficulty in jrpgs, that's the norm, if you find an exception it's an anomaly.

Random battles are super easy, auto-attack X to win, that's the norm, if you find an exception it's an anomaly.

Even item management is a joke in majority of jrpgs, letting you buy/carry too many items, no cooldowns on potions and able to rest to full mana/hp after each encounter most of the time.

If a challenging or interesting jrpg exists it's a special unicorn that is not the norm, the genre should be ignored. Change my mind.

>> No.5914561

>>5914560
>auto-attack X to win
That doesn't work in real JRPGs, you cocksucker.

>> No.5914562

>>5914561
>no true scotts-man fallacy
>muh "real" jrpgs that I will never name
kek

>> No.5914564

>>5914562
>muh "real" jrpgs that I will never name
I thought you'd never ask.
>SMT
>DQ
>Ys
>Metal Max
>Lufia
Put a bullet in your brain.

>> No.5914569

>>5913762
The combat and dungeon crawls in CRPGs are designed to mimic pen-and-paper RPGs. These are the best games for hardcore numbers autists.
Jarpigs have RPG combat because it's easier than programming an action game, and just not that interesting to play for gamers or D&Dfags.

>> No.5914571

>>5914569
>Jarpigs
Kill yourself.

>> No.5914572

>>5914564

>DQ
>not brain-dead easy auto-attack to win random encounters and grind a bit to beat every boss

>Ys
grinding works just fine to smash bosses, actually it's encouraged sometimes even 1 level makes a big difference, otherwise the bosses are just more tedious to beat.
non-boss battles are brain-dead easy just plow through everything with normal attack spam

>Lufia
zelda tier puzzle shit and easy battles as usual

>Metal Max
never played

>SMT
pokemon tier difficulty, specially the persona series which is just a bloated visual novel experience, unless you do personal challenges where you restrict fusions/regen items SMT is trash and the stories equally cringey and sophmoric

Anything else? I like how you listed entire series instead of specific games, but still got #btfo

>> No.5914573 [DELETED] 

>>5914572
The jews murdered JFK, bombed the USS Liberty, and bombed the Twin Towers.

>> No.5914574
File: 8 KB, 250x238, 1485006428668.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5914574

>>5914564
>DQ
>hard

>> No.5914579
File: 503 KB, 894x477, 1569056997632.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5914579

>>5914573
wtf

>> No.5914621

WRPGfags got btfo so hard on /v/ that now they try to shit up /vr/.

>> No.5914625

Wrpgfags are bitter redditors>>5913684

>> No.5914998

>>5914320
Good question. I've played several indie games that were inspired by Earthbound, and I felt like I should play it. The music, graphics, and dialogue were nice, though. This is the first JRPG I ever played.

>> No.5915532

>>5914998
>plays a game that he clearly doesn't enjoy to completion just to fit in with his fellow Undertale buttbuddies
You deserve euthanasia.

>> No.5916194

>>5913496
>The NES was getting the kinks out
Just ignore that PC CRPGs already did it better for years and tabletop figure that shit out long before that too

>> No.5916203

>>5916194
>Just ignore that PC CRPGs
thank you, I will since they're trash

>> No.5916220

>>5914458
Paper Mario's RPG mechanics are boring as shit, literally made to be an introductory RPG for toddlers. It doesnt require grinding not because you can use skill to get through it but because its easy enough for illiterate 4 year olds to get through it while their parents read the dialogue.

>> No.5916225

>>5916203
What a sad cope

>> No.5916245

>>5913667
>muh USS Liberty
Why do incels keep bringing this up? If you had any idea what its like to fly a jet, you'd get why in a time of war mistaking a lone unknowm ship that doesnt respond to comms as an enemy is forgivable.
It was obviously an accident and friendly fire occurs extremely frequently. The USA have accidentally blown up their own planes and ships hundreds of times.

>> No.5916249

>>5916225
dilate

>> No.5916253

>>5916245
>It was obviously an accident
Not according to radio chatter. But then, it's probably jsut a coincidence that it happened when a U.S. ship was close to Egyptian waters where Israelis were doing some underhanded shit.

>> No.5916408

wrpg-kun seething

>> No.5916458

>>5913489
good RPGs aren't grinding games, but most JRPGs are.
For an RPG done right and with zero grinding, see Fallout.

>> No.5916464

>>5916245
fuck off shmuley

>> No.5916575 [DELETED] 

>>5916458
based and blackislepilled

>> No.5916593

>>5916458
>fallout
>good
lmao rpgcucks.

>> No.5916723

>>5914164
Wow it's almost like trying out new tools you get and seeing what stuff in your current arsenal does to enemies/bosses is part of any game with options. You won't wind up with THE most optimal clears but it's very, very easy to avoid grinding in most any game if you are playing properly. The morons that need to grind are the types that never try anything because "durr you would need a guide" No you fucking don't use your god damned head and TRY things. The very same people that complain about JRPGs playing themselves because they're just about autoattacking are the ones that scream and cry about how much grinding is required. Wow, it's almost like you have to play the game with your brain on. I wonder if this woodlands boss is weak to my fire spells and equipment. Oh look he is, who would have ever guessed. How was I supposed to know that without running to a guide, this game is trial and error.

On the case of the "optimize equipment" buttons, those are an idiot trap. The best equips in good JRPGs tend to be those with secondary effects that may not have the best stats, but come with another boon. There also tend to be equips with high stats but have downsides, so the optimization button can actively fuck you over. Never use that garbage.

>> No.5916740

>>5915532
If only there had been some undertale buddies to discuss it with, that would have made it a bit better. I wanted to see what the memes were about, and I actually want to play Mother 3 because that's said to be better, but at this point I'm not sure

>> No.5916743 [DELETED] 

>>5916723
>>5916723
Hmmm I wonder why this brainless playstyle is the default in JRPGs even among fans but not so much in WRPGs and strategy games? Perhaps it could be because they are poorly designed and dont actually punish slight overleveling, reward low level runs, encourage you to optimize anything or demand any strategy for non boss encounters? Nah surely that cant be it.

Besides vast majority of them are absolutely piss easy even if you never grind and even if you are underleveled, there is really not much to this genre

>> No.5916749

>>5913489
>proud of solving a videogame that's only designed to occupy surface thought processes while the mind wanders in imagination
you're literally a fat bitch at a bus stop braggin bout sudoku now

>> No.5916760

lmao beepzorz thread.

>> No.5916813

>>5913539
>click optimal gear button
>game automatically equips highest stat gear without taking secondary effects into account
>get face fucked by a boss that uses fire magic because you didnt have your "reduce fire damage by 50% but has slightly lower defense" armor
Many such cases of redditors pressing the optimal button and then finding themselves "forced" to grind.

Anyway, no genre instills asspain to the extent that JRPGs do. Why is that, I wonder?

>> No.5917109

>>5916813
How could one anon topple the arguments posted itt with just a few lines, and all while looking so fresh?

>> No.5917115 [DELETED] 

I love how JRPGfags can only ever bring up bosses as the points of challenge despite them being something 5% of the games at most while pretending the countless hours spent fighting enemies that present 0 challenge don't exist. The defense is inherently disingenous, and they will ALWAYS avoid addressing the broader points. Besides even that is stupid because optional bosses, the ones that actually do require some strategy are very grindy

>> No.5917142

>>5914560
>Grinding reduces difficulty in jrpgs, that's the norm, if you find an exception it's an anomaly.
I'd say FF8 punishes you for grinding if anything. To bad the card game and early mod ability breaks the game wide open

>> No.5917639

>>5913558
ironically it is exactly the opposite,only redditors like JRPGs

>> No.5917730

>>5917639
>>5917115
Ok beep.

>> No.5918659

>>5916220
You this I've never understood the Paper Mario appeal. Sure they're great for like teaching a kid how to play RPGs.

>> No.5918683

>>5913494
you can find a way to defeat him at level 13 you shitty brainlet