How do you really feel about scanlines?

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Anonymous Mon Sep 2 00:27:57 2019 No.5854868 [Reply] [Original]

How do you really feel about scanlines?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 00:30:49 2019 No.5854873 >>5854868 I like em extra thicc

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 00:30:57 2019 No.5854874 No but some of these upscaling filters are getting crazy. Should have made a thread about that instead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 00:31:57 2019 No.5854876 >>5854868 Only necessary if you have any aesthetic discernment.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 00:34:21 2019 No.5854885 disgusting

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 00:37:38 2019 No.5854892 Ever since Analogue changed their scanline settings on Super NT and Mega SG, I have a hard time making them look how I want. I've been playing without, but I was really enjoying how they looked.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:02:03 2019 No.5854951

For me, most scanline filters just don't look good. The problem is the screen gets too dark with half the vertical resolution being cut out, which is something that didn't happen with CRTs because they were calibrated with this in mind.
Maybe it's something that can be fixed on something that takes full advantage of OLED 4K with HDR or something to compensate, but I've never tried one of those out.

However, the main draw of a CRT isn't the scanline look. It's something that doesn't get talked about much, but the biggest benefit is the response time. I'm not even talking about that in terms of having zero input lag. I'm talking about how you can have moving objects on a CRT and they still retain perfect crispness. Meanwhile on flat-screens, things always get smudgy and blurred when moving around, like with text on a dragged window on your PC. Certain panel types are worse about this than others, but they all still have the problem to an extent, and it can be jarring in things like side-scrollers.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:14:44 2019 No.5854976

>>5854951
You're right in general, but you're wrong on some of the particulars. They do look much better with scanlines than any other display does, but CRTs weren't calibrated with displaying 240p signals in mind. And even with a perfect response time a scrolling game won't look as good on a modern display unless it can strobe and can replicate the phosphor behavior of CRTs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:16:49 2019 No.5854980 File: 117 KB, 500x504, we-have-this-thread-every-day-30295928.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:17:28 2019 No.5854984 >>5854951 You’re in for a rude awakening when you see a modern screen without ghosting. Maybe you have friends that aren’t poor or can visit a nice store some day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:18:37 2019 No.5854987 >>5854976 >but CRTs weren't calibrated with displaying 240p signals in mind All standard definition displays show 240 lines at any given instance. Even with 480i, which is just 240 lines alternating 60 times a second.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:22:37 2019 No.5855000 >>5854987 480i isn't 240p.

>>	Funcoland Clown Mon Sep 2 01:29:26 2019 No.5855016 >>5855000 Actually, it is. Surprise! The only difference is that the even and odd fields are drawn on to of one another instead of betwixt

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 01:53:54 2019 No.5855069
File: 207 KB, 1440x900, 1553709176495.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5854868
Really depends on both the kind of scanlines and the game.
They're usually not necessary,
but some games heavily relied on the mild blurring effect of CRTs.

In short, sometimes justified.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:06:00 2019 No.5855086 I don't personally care for them, but I can understand the appeal of a well-calibrated 240p CRT

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:07:13 2019 No.5855089 >>5855016 >Actually it is the same thing, except it's different! Also, I like to say the word betwixt!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:08:09 2019 No.5855092 File: 41 KB, 345x430, A8E136F2-B7B2-46AF-8BAD-721D5902B485.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] They’re a meme. You didn’t actually see scanlines on the average set.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:11:25 2019 No.5855096 File: 37 KB, 345x430, Tri.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5855092 Then you weren't paying attention.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:43:44 2019 No.5855129 What about hybrid scanlines?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:46:32 2019 No.5855134 File: 37 KB, 345x430, triflip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5855129

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:55:28 2019 No.5855140 Newfag here, I don't get what the purpose or advantage of scanlines is? If there's a reason for them wouldn't it makes sense for me to apply them vertically too? How do I do that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 02:57:30 2019 No.5855145 >>5855140 Games that were designed to be displayed in 3:4 look better with vertical scanlines, i.e. a 90 degree rotated CRT.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 04:25:21 2019 No.5855274 >>5854868 Every filter has them too dark, and they mean nothing unless combined with a shadow mask / aperture grille.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 05:04:47 2019 No.5855329 >>5855096 I was, and they’re a meme. You couldn’t see them when sitting a normal distance from the set.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 07:56:56 2019 No.5855469 >>5854868 Grew up with them. Feel nostalgia for them. Don't go out of my way to emulate them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 08:57:15 2019 No.5855541 >>5855000 480i still only displays 240 lines at any given time. During the first 60th of a second it shows the even 240 lines, then on the second 60th of a second it shows the odd 240 lines, and so on. That's what the interlaced part of 480i means.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:08:51 2019 No.5855552 File: 32 KB, 497x500, jEQ1L.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5854980 This

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:35:33 2019 No.5855575 >>5854868 >How do you really feel about scanlines? I feel like they're not actually visible if you sit the correct distance from your TV so they don't fucking matter. Stop putting your eyeballs on the TV glass, OP.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:50:39 2019 No.5855586 >>5855541 Yeah, I know. And? 480i isn't 240p.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:52:43 2019 No.5855590 >>5855575 They matter, retard, regardless of how close you put your big dumb head to your TV and whether they're thick black lines or barely there they affect the image.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:54:02 2019 No.5855591 >>5854873 >thicc Go away zoomer. You've never experienced scanlines

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:10:57 2019 No.5855612

>>5855586
The original quote was
>The problem is the screen gets too dark with half the vertical resolution being cut out, which is something that didn't happen with CRTs because they were calibrated with this in mind.
You counter this by saying 480i is not 240p. But both 240p and 480i have half the vertical resolution blanked out at any given instance

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:25:23 2019 No.5855625

>>5855591
I especially hate scamline filters that make the scanlines just as thick as the actual image. It doesn't look that way on a real CRT, whether aperture grille or shadow mask, whether consumer or professional monitor. Real CRT phosphors have a blooming glow and the scanlines end up like a third the size of the picture lines

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:43:50 2019 No.5855646

>>5855612
This discussion's a waste of time, but 15khz CRTs weren't calibrated with one set of lines being permanently blanked (240p) in mind. They're calibrated with rapidly alternating blanked lines (480i) in mind. If you disagree with that then you just don't know what you're talking about, not that it matters one way or another.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:45:54 2019 No.5855648 >>5855646 Reread the post and the thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:04:53 2019 No.5855772 >>5855140 Artwork was designed to be displayed with scanlines back in the day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:16:04 2019 No.5855796 >>5855772 Nah. Scanlines are the result of shit tech, nothing more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:17:02 2019 No.5855802 >>5855796 >implying art wasn't designed to utilize that shit tech to its fullest

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 13:59:20 2019 No.5855964 >>5854868 I literally do not give a shit. The graphics do not make a game, and the scanlines are such a small part of the picture. Anyone that really, REALLY cares anout this shit is autistic as fuck, or a hardcore hobbyist (tistic).

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 14:17:02 2019 No.5856001 >>5854868 I like them

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 19:23:15 2019 No.5856520 File: 7 KB, 190x266, 324634623.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5854868 >zoomers believe scanlines are just the black lines

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 19:42:02 2019 No.5856552

>>5854951
>I'm talking about how you can have moving objects on a CRT and they still retain perfect crispness. Meanwhile on flat-screens, things always get smudgy and blurred when moving around, like with text on a dragged window on your PC.

Niggz you need to get a plasma tv. I still have one from 2008 and it's going strong. No motion blur, anti burn in tech is effective, and the 'only lasts 7 years' thing is a meme if you crank brightness and contrast to 100% and run it for 12 hrs a day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 19:49:00 2019 No.5856563 >>5855964 This, everyone who cares about this is an idiot

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 19:52:09 2019 No.5856571 >>5854868 nigga, did you slap scanlines over one of those awful smoothing filters like super eagle? are you fucking retarded?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 20:47:30 2019 No.5856632 >>5856552 >getting a plasma in 2019 instead of an OLED

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 20:50:34 2019 No.5856636 >>5856520 >old people think zoomers believe black lines are scanlines

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 20:56:45 2019 No.5856646

>>5856632
My 50" are Panasonic plasma cost $1500.

I have yet to see any LCD or LED to replicate the depth of color or clarity of motion at even double the price point. I am reminded of this every time I watch a sports game at a friend's house or local bar.

And that's because the tech is simply ill suited for the job. Instead we get marketing for higher pixel density, thinness to mount on your wall, and all sorts of extraneous apps bullshit when all of that is covering the simple fact that it can't beat the video quality of a TV released 11 years earlier.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 20:57:20 2019 No.5856647 >>5856646 Learn to fucking read.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 21:01:21 2019 No.5856654 >>5856647 no u

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 21:01:23 2019 No.5856656 >>5856636 >t. zoomer

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 21:09:05 2019 No.5856665 >>5854984 Higher end OLEDs may have good motion handling, but they'll never be as good as CRTs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 21:43:38 2019 No.5856717 >>5854868 >How do you really feel about scanlines? They look like shit when they are thick and defined. I prefer a more muted scanline, but I also game on a CRT as the developer intended. Fuck emulation and its filters.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 21:48:14 2019 No.5856730

>>5856717
I don't know why filters can't still get the look right. You'd think with 4k displays and such we'd finally be at the point where they can get the proper look of phosphors down and get the right thickness instead of these hackjobs where the black lines are just as thick as the lines of the actual image being displayed. It looks fake and gay.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 16:33:46 2019 No.5858295 >>5856665 Won't they though? We have 144hz monitors these days.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 17:36:40 2019 No.5858432 >>5854868 >scanlines was gonna say i love em but honestly they're kind of a cliche now

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 00:19:31 2019 No.5859178 >>5855069 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jflrB0UIcFE This CRT shader makes the DKC games look their best on an emulator + modern display and I had to look everywhere for the right one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 00:36:43 2019 No.5859189 >>5854868 They are a cheap solution to making old games look better on HD screens. But I personally prefer upscaling whenever possible.

Anonymous Wed Sep 4 00:40:43 2019 No.5859192

>>5856730
>I don't know why filters can't still get the look right.
Scanlines were a side effect of an odd signal sent to a CRT tv, and I think that plays a big part in it. They weren't a feature. You would think that by now they would have this figured out, but they have gotten close.

>>5858295
>Won't they though? We have 144hz monitors these days.
Not even a 144hz LCD compares to a CRT.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 00:47:35 2019 No.5859202 Is it true that scanlines induce the McCollough effect?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 00:59:22 2019 No.5859213 File: 849 KB, 1500x1125, 2A3100C0-B475-4348-90C0-A1D2130C0887.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Scanlines are love, scanlines are life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 01:06:09 2019 No.5859218 File: 916 KB, 1500x1125, B0B12061-14C7-4038-BC90-44A9D83B431E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Scanlines! Scanlines!

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 01:07:20 2019 No.5859221 File: 1.55 MB, 2500x1875, 7A7A27EC-B210-4620-9EE4-8DDC2F758082.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What kind of nerd would you have to be to not like scanlines? Yuck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 01:08:35 2019 No.5859223 File: 626 KB, 1500x1125, 93F7C511-D018-4997-AB46-B2F6EF91F529.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Well? Hmm? I know what I prefer...

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 01:12:56 2019 No.5859227 File: 13 KB, 362x346, DA28378E-E6CA-4510-8BFD-BCFCE0FB3742.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Btw. Why my thumbnails show moire pattern so bad?

Anonymous Wed Sep 4 01:13:29 2019 No.5859229
File: 3.51 MB, 2560x3840, SEGA Battletoads Near & far.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I might as well post a photo of my Zenith 25" wells gardner tube via s-video. Pretty much non-existent, which works great for me. I don't like highly defined lines, but I also don't sit close enough that they are visible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 01:56:45 2019 No.5859265 >>5854868 I love the look of them. I hate that retro gamers obsess over them, given that the greatest barrier to accurate emulation isn't CRT bloom or anything like that, it's refresh rate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 02:13:02 2019 No.5859279 I don't like them, but yet they're still good. The TV I grew up with didn't make them obvious.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 16:18:11 2019 No.5860364 >>5854868 thats a lcd

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 18:16:22 2019 No.5860606 File: 1.60 MB, 2176x2572, IMG_20190904_215924.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I like them on my consumer set

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 22:15:56 2019 No.5861004 >>5856730 You'd need an absolutely ridiculous refresh rate out of the scaler or specialized driving circuitry in the panel itself to emulate deflected beam hitting phosphor properly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 22:18:44 2019 No.5861009 >>5861004 No, it just takes a lot of tweaking. Try CRT-royale, and tweak the settings for hours. You'll find something you like, probably more than your real CRT.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 22:25:54 2019 No.5861021 >>5861009 No. You just cannot display phosphor decay properly on a screen that is refreshed at sub-khz frequencies. It's physically impossible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJU2drrtCM

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 4 23:13:48 2019 No.5861097 >not having comfy crt gamma glow and bloom in the wee hours of the night :)

Anonymous Wed Sep 4 23:21:42 2019 No.5861106

>>5861021
No but you can emulate it so well it looks as good. I've got my flat screen and 3 CRTs in the same room. I've been able to compare them side by side. There's all kind of parameters to experiment with in CRT Royale. I actually have more control over the image than on my BVM. I'm not saying they're the same thing, they're completely different technologies.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 00:04:27 2019 No.5861173 That picture makes me think of the buzz, weird magnetic feel of putting my face near the TV, and the smell. There is no smell like the screen of a 10 inch CRT

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 00:44:52 2019 No.5861246 >>5861173 MmmmMMmmmm. Delicious ozone.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 00:50:03 2019 No.5861256 File: 30 KB, 546x546, 1566588160327.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5861173 Is it me or are CRTfags getting weirder.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 00:53:27 2019 No.5861261 >>5861256 Long-term radiation exposure causes all kinds of issues.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 01:13:28 2019 No.5861282 File: 258 KB, 1280x1280, 240pcomparison.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Will the original games intentions be preserved or will it be lost to time and inferior display technology?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 03:15:05 2019 No.5861396 >>5861282 wtf is this ugly shit on the right side? I mean i'm all for CRT and real hardware but it seems like you took the most shitty pic you could just to support your point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 03:20:30 2019 No.5861405 >>5861261 Dangerous levels of radiation from CRTs are a myth. It isn't a myth however that your mom sucked off a goat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 03:21:43 2019 No.5861407 File: 1.22 MB, 2227x1163, IMG_20190904_232620.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5860606 Wish the geometry wasn't fucked tho

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 5 03:25:06 2019 No.5861416 File: 2.22 MB, 2001x1633, IMG_20190904_233754__01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5860606 >>5861407 Yay ;)

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/vr/ - Retro Games