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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 176 KB, 1280x720, ConkerHD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5836739 No.5836739 [Reply] [Original]

How did Rare make games with this level of texture, shading, animation, etc and STILL manage to keep it on a cartridge?

>> No.5836774

>>5836739
Word was that it could've looked even better!

>> No.5836819

>>5836774
For 5th gen? No

>> No.5836834

Because the only thing extra CD space was ever actually used for was useless intro movies and fmv cutscenes.

>> No.5836895

>>5836739
the framerate was terrible but that was no fault of the cartridge

>> No.5836921

>>5836895
It was mostly good.

>> No.5836925

>>5836739
The extra CD space wasn't actually that relevant unless you were using CD audio, FMVs, or making a gigantic JRPG.

>> No.5836935

>>5836739
Lots of optimization, compression, and custom code

>> No.5836936

>>5836895
Hardly any N64 era games had good framerate.

>> No.5836937

>>5836739
There’s a playthrough with commentary by the original devs where I recall they mentioned that there was a lot if dynamic swapping of resources off the cart depending on where the player is looking. If it were on CD, the read times would have been far too slow to achieve it.

>> No.5836943

britbong magic
Naughty Dog and Insomniac also did some kind of wizardry with the PS1 to make their games look so good.

>> No.5836945

>>5836936
Framerate generally was just not a thing console gamers cared about back then - it was ALL about the graphics. Today people will ream 5th gen over framerate and I don't feel that's fair.

>> No.5836951

>>5836937
Crash Bandicoot had a similar technique and they pulled it off by filling up unused space with the same assets a few times to make the reading of the disc take less time.

>> No.5836961

>>5836943
Still a damn shame what happened with Naughty Dog
From what I've heard, you had to do manual CPU pipelining in ASM to get a job there into the PS2 era

>> No.5836967

>>5836945
I don't know about that. F-Zero X left an immediate impression. Star Wars Pod Racer sure didn't feel fast, didn't matter how high the speedometer said you were going. Turok 1 felt better to play than Turok 2. Faster framerate was always better.

But yes, N64 games prioritized looking good in screenshots.

>> No.5837014

>>5836967
Yeah, sure, if a game happened to have a good framerate then it would a good advertising point. Point is it wasn't a make-or-break factor on some people's buying decisions like it is today.

>> No.5837019

>>5837014
I agree that it wasn't what it is today. Mainly because PC games did not run at 60fps, much less 70. Really the only place you'd see high res graphics running at high framerate was in an arcade.

But I definitely couldn't stand extremely low fps games back then even if I didn't know why I didn't like them. What qualified as low was definitely lower than it is now, though.

>> No.5837482

>>5837019
I still find it very unreasonable when people sperg over 30 FPS being too low. The typical cartoon animation is 24 frames and nobody ever bitches over that.

>> No.5837517

>>5837482
Your typical cartoon isn't reacting directly to your input, the issue of low framerate isn't one of motion, it's of input.

>> No.5837803

>>5837517
Ocarina of Time runs at 20 fps and it doesn't feel laggy at all.

>> No.5837805

>>5837803
I had trouble adjusting to Ocarina of Time when I played it back in1998. It definitely felt unresponsive. It still kind of does. 20 fps is quite low for a timing based action game

>> No.5837806

>>5836936
reasonably false

>> No.5837816

>>5837517
It's both really. There are numerous reasons 24fp movies can still look acceptable and they're mostly variables you can't control with a video game.

Even with this, some directors have made "pan camera over large distance" mistake and it's genuinely eye cancer.

>> No.5837824

>>5837806
Not even trolling but all multiplats had worse performance on N64.

>> No.5837834

>>5836945
Playing Goldeneye with a framerate of 0.5 was fun times.

>> No.5837842

>>5837824
>N64 era
I assumed this meant "5th gen"

>> No.5837854

>>5837842
You can test it out, tony hawk, duke nukem, all substantially worse framerate on N64. The exceptions are the few games that were developed on N64 first like Army Men Sarge's Heroes.

>> No.5838552

>>5836895
I think the framerate is still playable, especially grading on the N64's curve. It's better than Banjo-Tooie.

>> No.5838564

>>5837854
>duke nukem
>substantially worse framerate on N64

This is not the case.

>> No.5838635

>>5837854
Duke64 performs way better than Total Meltdown and Saturn Duke actually.
Tony Hawk games also run better on n64 but they all lack the FMVs and the music got butchered.

>> No.5839332

>>5837834
Why do you lie like that?

>> No.5839353

>>5836739
>58 fps

as if you couldn't make the emulation even more obvious

>> No.5839364

>>5837854
Burn me at the stake but I prefer Duke Nukem 64 over any other version.

>> No.5839382
File: 8 KB, 185x184, 1264201815571s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5839382

>>5837482
Lots of faggots think they're super saiyans,
These same faggots often wear glasses, and couldn't pass sports try-outs via reaction time and hand-eye coordination. They're the gaming equivalent to audiophiles who are 30+ years old and think they can hear under 30hz or over 18000hz.
It's borderline psychosis. Convincing yourself you have superpowers. Coke addicts suffer similar delusions. The same can be said for guys who wear glasses or are over 30 years old who get wet in their panties over 4K and HDR.

>> No.5839386

>>5839364
Everyone get the stakes ready, this dude is at it again

>> No.5839431

>>5839382
Ask me how I know you wear glasses and are over 30 years of age.

>> No.5839451
File: 10 KB, 313x378, 1318615228151.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5839451

>>5839431
I know that losing eye sight a bit has helped me realize that SOOOO SPARKLY!!10! really doesn't matter. I've also never minded lower frame rates, even as a 20/10-eyesight lil shit. The only people it really might matter for are FPS players and people who play FPS games that seriously are just faggots too poor/scared to own and use actual guns.

>> No.5839453

Graphics are for fags, I play retro video games for their amazing stories.

>> No.5840295

>>5839451
UUUU

>> No.5840338

>>5836739
They didn't. You're running it upscaled to HD in a fucking emulator. How is that even a remotely realistic representation of that game?

>> No.5840456

>>5836936
Yes and no. Games like mario and zelda ran at low framerates, but they were st least locked to 20fps. The issue I have with the rareware n64 games was that they ran unlocked. It was all over the place

>> No.5840492

>>5836739
the VA audio quality was so fuzzy and shit i couldnt even understand Conker most of the time

>> No.5840610

>>5836925
>or making a gigantic JRPG
Those gigantic JRPGs would fit a cart just fine if you stripped out all the CD audio and FMVs.

>> No.5840901

>>5840610
Not with the pre-rendered backgrounds.

>> No.5840934

>>5840610
But the entire appeal of 5th gen JRPGs was the FMVs

>> No.5840948

>>5840934
That's very sad in retrospect.

>> No.5841060

>>5840338
HD emulation doesn't magically improve textures, or lighting, or any of that shit, just resolution/performance. How much of a dunce do you have to be to not realize the ROM content is the exact same as it was on N64?

>> No.5841593

https://youtu.be/KbEMU7sgkrQ

Idk op

>> No.5841681

>>5841593
hey *snicker* I figured out how to leave the matrix

>> No.5841693

>>5840948
Not really. In 1995, home computer gear(pc or console) just wasn't up to the task of rendering decent-looking polygonal forms. However, the $100K workstations used by game studios could render that level of detail into video, so FMVs were used as a sort-of half measure. Blame the masses, we were the ones hungry for that shit, hence the popularity of Toy Story.

>> No.5841836
File: 341 KB, 640x480, turok.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5841836

>>5836739
Everything on the 64 looks like donkey ass anyway that's how.

>> No.5841837

>>5836961
>Still a damn shame what happened with Naughty Dog
What happened with Naughty Dog?

>> No.5841839

>>5836936
Hardly any N64 games* had good framerate. 20 was usually the target, few games did 30, like 5 did 60 (4 of which were 2D and the 5th sacrificed stereo audio for 60fps lol)

>>5838564
Saturn version is god tier, outclassing the PC version at the time.

>>5841836
That's actually the old PC version of Turok which looked worse than the N64 version (which still doesn't look great.)

>> No.5841851

>>5836739
>not 240p with 3-point sampling
Why even bother?

>> No.5841862

>>5841851
emulaters don't really get video games, they just consume a stage or two and eventually stop playing to never go back to it.

>> No.5841886

>>5837482
Nice bait faggot.

>> No.5841892

>>5841837
Liberals happened. Also, since the 7th gen they make interactive movies instead of games.

>> No.5842456

>>5836834
and uncompressed music files

>> No.5843614

>>5836739
By the time conker came out, n64 cartridges were well over 64mb

>> No.5843645

>>5841886
"Shit, a valid point which I can't immediately refute! What do I do?!"
>n-nice bait f-faggot

>> No.5843658

>>5841862
>t. butt mad /vr/tard that has sunk his money into useless plastic future landfill junk

>> No.5843959

>>5836739
It only looks good when compared to other N64 games.

>> No.5843995

>>5843959
A lot of n64 games look amazing
Conkers Dk64 and the banjos especially

>> No.5844001

>>5843995
They all look like below average PC games. Even crash bandicoot is more impressive.

>> No.5844014

>>5844001
No way. They had good aesthetics.

>> No.5844017

>>5844014
Play some 3dfx games.

>> No.5844018

>>5844001
Crash is nice af tho. Idk what u mean by even crash
Fuck u retard

>> No.5844019

>>5844018
>Idk what u mean by even crash
That even psx games looked better than the N64

>> No.5844065

>>5844001
Crash Bandicoot is a fucking beautiful game and 3 is definitely one of the best looking games on the system.

PSX had Crash, Vagrant Story and. Gran Turismo

Saturn had fucking Powerslave holy hell that was some impressive shit. Panzer Dragoon, Sega Rally and Daytona. Tailor made games for that system looked pretty damn impressive.

N64 had Conker and Turok At ass framerates. Even then Turok or Goldeneye compared to something like Powerslave, PSX Quake/Doom or Metal Gear wasn’t even a fucking contest. Those games were rock solid FPS wise with post processing and looked amazing. The N64 has some advantages but was severely lacking in a lot of ways

>> No.5844071

>>5844065
Turok aims at 30 fps. It drops frequently, but certainly less than your average Playstation shooter. It also has far more advanced animation and graphical effects. You might be thinking of Turok 2, which goes full retard on animation and texture quality at the expense of a playable game.

Doom runs at a higher framerate on N64 (locked 30 versus 20-30 unlocked on PSX)

Quake runs at a higher framerate on N64 (30) versus Saturn (20).

>> No.5844073

>>5844071
Have you actually played the quake N64 port? I don’t think you’d be discussing it at all if you had. It isn’t even worth bringing up it’s such hot ass. And Doom PSX is some impressive shit, Doom couldn’t even run on the N64 in any capacity. That’s why it got Doom 64. Which has puny maps and far less weapons. It’s loads of fun and a great game but it’s seriously cut back compared to doom 1, 2, plutonia or TNT. All of which are on the PSX with multiplayer.

>> No.5844079

>>5844073
>Have you actually played the quake N64 port?

Yes, it looks and plays well. For Quake. Honestly, looks better than the PC version I played as a kid because the color lighting brings something other than brown to the table. In addition, it is the only N64 game I know of that allows you to turn texture filtering off.

>> No.5844084

>>5844079
Did you eat paint chips as a child or are you a natural retard?

>> No.5844086

>>5844065
>Saturn had fucking Powerslave holy hell that was some impressive shit
No it wasn't. All the characters and items are sprites. It looks like DOOM, in the generation of Quake.

>> No.5844089

>>5844073
>Doom couldn’t even run on the N64 in any capacity

Given that Doom runs on the fucking SNES, gonna have to call bullshit on that. Certainly not going to fit on a small N64 cart though. Doom 64 engine is MORE advanced than Doom engine. It just isn't as good a game because the maps weren't designed by based bitch-maker John Romero.

>> No.5844090

>>5844084
I'm guessing you're the same retard from a while back insisting that the 20 fps mess of pixels also known as Saturn Quake is even worth playing.

>> No.5844097

>>5844086
Sprite monsters look better than Quake enemies who awkwardly shift around instead of animating.

>> No.5844110

>>5844086
so it looks like shit in the age of shit. gotcha

>> No.5844143

>>5844090
I said PSX Quake. As in PSX Quake 2. Saturn quake indeed is also a bad port

>> No.5845650

>>5844110
>>5844097
Graphically it's not impressive. It would have been neat on the Genesis. The Saturn was weak shit.

>> No.5845657

>>5841892
You’re right about them making shit games but you’re a faggot for thinking it has anything to do with MUH POLITICS when the entire industry has shifted over to shitty interactive movies.

>> No.5845660

>>5840456
>Mario locked at 20
Mostly 30.

>> No.5845680

>>5844019
Crash is the best looking PS1 game so i dont know why he means EVEN Crash Bandicoot
Crash is the motha fuckin shit

>> No.5845719

>>5842456
Which was dumb, seeing as you couldn't tell the difference if it was 320k mp3. But I suppose muh red book audio streaming was part of the gimmick.

>> No.5845725

>>5836834
This is why Conker’s sounds like shit.

>> No.5845738

>>5840934
Nope