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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 101 KB, 1280x720, amiga 500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5834368 No.5834368 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Great as it was for creative work like graphics, music composition, etc, in the gaming department it always seemed to be lacking. Although it did have some bona fide classics, it was also deluged with games that had very limited, shallow gameplay or terrible controls disguised by nice graphics. The C64 also suffered from this to an extent, particularly in its later years, but not as severely as the Amiga did.

If you were to compare the Amiga to 16-bit consoles like the Mega Drive, the ratio of shit to good games was way higher.


>> No.5834373

The problems with the Amiga were twofold:

1. It happened to lend itself very very easily to all graphics and no gameplay games that looked nice in magazine screenshots
2. It suffered from a lot of games that were Atari ST ports. The C64 for contrast largely avoided this because it was the only major 6502 machine in the UK market (in the US for contrast, a lot of its games were Apple II ports).

>> No.5834378

Using those stupid Atari-style joysticks with one fucking button was a severely limiting gameplaywise.

>> No.5834387

I agree the typical Amiga game didn't match the typical Nintendo one for depth, gameplay, presentation, controls, or content. The big NES game series like Zelda, Mario, Castlevania, Mega Man, Dragon Quest etc were far superior in every metric to Amiga titles of the 1986-92 period. I think the reason Europeans soured on Nintendo was that games got released late/sparingly and were often terribly optimised PAL conversions that ran at like 15 fps.

>> No.5834396

I loved the Amiga back in the day but by the time the Mega Drive was out, it was obvious that its 1985 chipset was outdated and needed an upgrade.

>> No.5834449

You could get Amiga games very cheaply, sometimes free with magazines... Also, you could hack into games and program your own if you want. It appealed to a certain demographic outside of a typical NES or Master System owner.

>> No.5834454
File: 6 KB, 229x220, asdasd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh look one of these threads again

>> No.5834467

Try and do Stunt Car Racer on the Mega Drive. I just dare you.

>> No.5834471

And try and do Sonic on the Amiga and see how well that works out. ;)

>> No.5834484

>it was also deluged with games that had very limited, shallow gameplay or terrible controls
How did those games hurt you?

>> No.5834498

A lot of its game ran at like 25 fps because unlike the C64 the Amiga didn't have a char mode so it had to move more than twice as much data around.

>> No.5834514

Blitter, my lad.

>> No.5834529

Amiga was for sit-down mouse games like Populous. Console-style platformers like Superfrog never worked that well and were demeaning to the machine.

>> No.5834531


>> No.5834558

The C64 ended up with Speccy ports instead.

>> No.5834560

Spectrum ports weren't all that common though sometimes they did happen and could be instantly picked out.

>graphics are all hi-res characters
>only the 256x192 screen area of the Spectrum was used leaving a huge empty space around the edges
>usually the game ran at 5 fps because the programmer would just take the source code from the Spectrum and convert each Z80 instruction to its 6502 equivalent with no attempt to optimise anything

And thus Hard Drivin' and other horrors.

>> No.5834571

>imma parrot a youtube
My balls itch. I put more thought into that than you did into your shitpost.

>> No.5834574

The Amiga sold 4 million machines in its nine years on the market while the C64 sold 12 million machines so it wasn't going to have the C64's software library.

>> No.5834697

It's aged worse than the C64 desu.

>> No.5834867

So it was slightly less a timeless iconic part of gaming history. Thanks for clearing that up kiddo.

>> No.5834876

The Amiga at least did better PCM than the SNES because it wasn't limited to 64k of audio RAM.

>> No.5834881


>> No.5834885
File: 106 KB, 675x800, dpaint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not so great as a gaming machine, but it was a godsend for creative people.

>> No.5834891

And that's part of the problem. PCM sounds and high color graphics don't seem as impressive anymore. The Amiga lacks a real character of its own the way most of the 8-bit machines do and it feels like a diet VGA PC. PCM is also only as good as the samples it's fed. If you heard an Amiga tune and you didn't know it was an Amiga, you wouldn't be able to identify it while the SID's sound is immediately recognizable.

>> No.5834893

coping of the C64 gnome

>> No.5834919
File: 2 KB, 210x195, 1565843416401.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>usually the game ran at 5 fps because the programmer would just take the source code from the Spectrum and convert each Z80 instruction to its 6502 equivalent with no attempt to optimise anything

>> No.5834930

Professional musicians didn't use the amiga, they used the atari st with their midi instruments.

>> No.5834937

Welcome to 80s British game development. Enjoy your stay.

>> No.5835062

Piracy, low budgets, rushed development times, bad arcade ports, and more.

>> No.5835064

I get very depressed whenever I think about the amiga and how the hardware was wasted on such shitty games

>> No.5835208

Shitty company wasted the potential by not getting any real hardware development done after OCS. ECS is not even worth mentioning and AGA was too little too late.

>> No.5835221
File: 68 KB, 708x398, Diablo_Intro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


A little machine that could.

>> No.5835405

Arcade ports were with few exceptions a total waste of time.

>rushed out in two months by 1-2 programmers who didn't have access to the original source code or art assets
>they had to just play a cab and try to recreate the game from there
>often also involving arcade games significantly more powerful than the Amiga or having features that didn't translate well onto the hardware

This was in contrast to console ports normally done in-house by the developer of the arcade game with plenty of time as well as access to all the original code and whatnot. Also most devs usually had more sense in trying to pick arcade ports that were actually viable for the console they were porting to. This meant for instance that Sega didn't retardedly try to put Super Scaler games on their consoles. It didn't stop UK shovelware devs from attempting it on the C64 though.

>> No.5835414

The Mega Drive does have some advantages but the Amiga can match many of them with enough programming trickery.

>> No.5835426

Does it though? Shadow of the Beast's parallax scrolling is limited as fuck and can't compare to what consoles have. And while the copper and raster tricks can cheat the Amiga's 32 colors on screen, it takes processing time and so screen size and framerate have to be reduced for the Amiga to keep up.

>> No.5835430

I forgot to mention the Mega Drive has only 128k of work RAM and 64k of video memory while the Amiga has 512k-1MB of RAM.

>> No.5835436

Varies. When there was a game that was being made for multiple machines, the Amiga would often get the best looking version of it. Then a couple of years later a new deluxe DOS variant would make use of those Amiga assets. Eventually 3d game came out for DOS, and Amiga made no attempt to keep up.

>> No.5835440

Chalk and cheese. The MD uses ROM cartridges and can access up to 4MB ROM, all of which is instantly available on power on. The Amiga has 1MB of RAM which has to be loaded via slow floppy disks. On a MD you never have to swap 10 disks to play a game and have one get corrupted on you. Game over.

>> No.5835446

Check out Paradroid 90. You wouldn't find a better programmer than Andrew Braybook but he couldn't coax 50 fps out of an Amiga.

>> No.5835449

You wouldn't find a better C64 programmer than Andrew Braybook. That doesn't mean his skills translated to Amiga coding. Happened to a lot of guys. Jeff Minter's attempts at Amiga games were pretty sad.

>> No.5835454

The C64 definitely does arcade action better due to its tile graphics. The Amiga's bitmap graphics are a lot greedier and need more RAM and CPU to utilize.

>> No.5835461

I guess the C64 was lucky because it wasn't quite so easy to just copypaste Spectrum games to it (though this didn't stop the Hard Drivin' people) the way the Amiga was held back with Atari ST copypaste.

>> No.5835480

The Amiga is a 16-bit machine so its programming model is closer to a PC or Mac than would be the case on 8-bit machines. While on 8-bit machines writing to the bare metal is par the course, the Amiga has actual OS routines in Kickstart, which serves as its equivalent of a PC BIOS. There's routines you can call to use the blitter, do audio output, access the floppy drive, etc. The Atari ST had something similiar too with TOS. Most Amiga machine language programs just handle algorithms and calculations while calling the Kickstart API functions for I/O tasks. The Amiga's chipset is _considerably_ more complicated than any 8-bit machine so the API functions mean you don't have to worry about this. And because of this, not many programmers wrote to the bare metal, they merely called the API routines.

>> No.5835979
File: 43 KB, 1920x1080, zool-real-1908241359-01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

amiga games are a full on assault on the senses

>> No.5836025

That's more a problem related to the artists involved.

>> No.5836078

I played the shit out of Superfrog. Worked perfectly well. Chaos Engine was my favorite game though.


I don't think mod music was used that much on PC compared to Amiga, and PC mods (XM, S3M, IT) had much more than four channels (Amiga games had less than that when factoring in sound effects). People also reused samples. So the Amiga did have some sound of its own.

>> No.5836612

Superfrog is really pretty bad compared to any decent console platformer. Awful physics, floaty controls, and huge levels with hardly anything in them. They didn't even include a "start" period to the character's movements where you can move a couple of steps before the screen scrolls--it scrolls the moment you tap the joystick which makes controls almost impossible.

But at least the color scheme was reasonably tasteful as opposed to >>5835979

>> No.5836635
File: 97 KB, 1012x671, imh9.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Tried to tell you how mentally ill and deluded Amiga fanboys are.

>> No.5836650

The Amiga ended up with worse games than the 8-bit systems in most cases.

>> No.5836668

Its best games always seemed to be interactive movie kinds of stuff like Defender of the Crown. When they tried doing arcade stuff, it always fell flat.

>> No.5836671

With console games there was actual Q/C and they were usually made by professionals with a proper budget. The Amiga rarely enjoyed that.

>> No.5836698

>HAM mode
is that the blast processing equivalent for the amiga?

>> No.5836712

No. It was a special mode that let you display the entire 4096 color palette all at once. Useless for games but scanned photos looked amazing (PCs couldn't get that many colors on screen until the mid-90s). An leftover from a prototype of Denise when Jay Miner was playing around with different ideas. They wanted to remove HAM from the finalized design of the chip but then left it so as to not leave a big chunk of unused die space.

>> No.5836973

It might have been nice if the thing had had a real text mode.

>> No.5836981

I'm sure 14 year old memesters like you know all about the Amiga.

>> No.5837150

There are a lot of reasons the PC, Mac, and Nintendo succeeded where Amiga didn't...

>> No.5837243

It got superseded by the much newer Mega Drive in a few years sort of like how the C64 got superseded by the NES.

>> No.5837253

The technological gap between the C64 and NES is not nearly as clear cut or obvious as the gap between the Amiga and MD. Two systems that came out 11 months apart versus two systems that came out three years apart.

>> No.5837263

Trip Hawkins said the NES did games better than the C64, if I recall.

>> No.5837268

>If you heard an Amiga tune and you didn't know it was an Amiga, you wouldn't be able to identify
Confirmed for not actually listening to real Amiga music. Amigas have a very distinctive sound because of the half-assed anti-aliasing filter and the hard panning. Sounds completely different to the same modules played on a good player.

>> No.5837271

>they had to just play a cab and try to recreate the game from there
Or more likely, a VHS tape of somebody else playing the cab.

>> No.5837272

He's not a programmer and the NES had better games overall because of professional teams with lots of money and rigid Q/C. And EA never bothered with the NES because they hated Nintendo's monopolistic behavior, so they went for the Mega Drive instead.

>> No.5837274

It depends. Sometimes they did have a cab in the office to play on, if they were less lucky and the dev was particularly cheap, they'd just have to go down to the local arcade and play it. The absolute worst case was having nothing but a VHS tape of the game.

>> No.5837280

>And EA never bothered with the NES because they hated Nintendo's monopolistic behavior, so
Until they found out that greed and monopoly tactics were a lot of fun when they were the ones doing it.

>> No.5837284

If you had the cab on hand, some devs would use tools to rip the sprites from the arcade ROMs to be able to recreate them.

>> No.5837289

How many games actually needed >1MB anyway?

>> No.5837293

A lot actually. 2MB and 4MB Mega Drive games were common particularly in the console's later years.

>> No.5837327


You have to be 18 to post here.

>> No.5837453

The post-Tramiel Commodore didn't even try to develop anything new, just ride the C64 and A500 down with the Titanic. They even closed the Palo Alto lab shortly after purchasing Amiga.

>> No.5837550


Let's talk studying basic color theory, guys.

>> No.5837560

Hardly a hardware problem, more like an artist who needs to invest some more time.

>> No.5837572


It was way better at actual computer types of games instead of trying to be a Mega Drive.

>> No.5837609

It's like...idk, man. Amiga fans always used to talk like it was some incredible supercomputer that was 50 years ahead of everything else but when you actually play its games, you feel disappointed and most of them have never aged as well as its fans would have you believe.

>> No.5837615

How do you mean? The hardware is customizable it could be as powerful as you want but most developers only supported the most basic model for market reasons. The demoscene did pull off impressive stuff like porting wipeout and quake to that pos A500 model

>> No.5837616


>> No.5837619

Even the games it has that are good (mostly niche adventures and CRPGs) are relatlively obscure and its image will forever be tainted with terrible arcade ports and Zniggy-grade platformers.

>> No.5837624

Americans are blameless in that. The worst you can blame us for is Sierra's phoned-in Amiga ports.

>> No.5837652


>> No.5837658

Ah yes the great ST, so great in fact that I always had to manually set little offsets or else the MIDI interface would not trigger the synths precisely.

>> No.5837663

That's a shame, because it can do a lot better than Zniggy.

>> No.5837665

*offsets to individual notes to be specific

>> No.5837942

the colors look nice tho??

>> No.5837950

I'm a burger and I really don't understand all the hate it's getting in here. A lot of these games look cool.

>> No.5837958

>look cool
There's the problem. "Look cool" usually took precedence over "plays well".

>> No.5837984

What the Amiga could have used was 1. Better sprite capabilities, 2. An actual char mode, and 3. An additional sound channel or two.

>> No.5838028

Too expensive

>> No.5838580

Every anon should judge for themselves whether a game is any good or plays well.
Don't listen to any of those "truths" about the Amiga that get thrown around here. Can't trust the haters, can't trust the lovers.

>> No.5838597

no one thinks the amiga hardware was the problem when it comes to its shit library.

>> No.5838685

>browse youtube
>wow look at all these amazing things the amiga can do, its truly ahead of its time
>turns out they're using some accelerator card worth hundreds of dollars that practically hijacks the whole machine and runs modern hardware in its place

>> No.5838692

We need a wall to stop you /v/ migrants from getting in here

>> No.5839253

>In this video: Doom runs on a 100% stock A500 with a 68060 accelerator card and 32MB of RAM

>> No.5839457

>1. people who knew how to code, 2. people who knew how to code. 3. people who knew how to code

>> No.5839476

Coding skill wasn't the problem, it was that great programmers =/= great game designers as Manfred Trentz proved.

>> No.5839607

>If you were to compare the Amiga to 16-bit consoles like the Mega Drive,
>let's compare two machines that only share one thing in common: the CPU
you're not very bright, are you?
my sides. no idea what you're talking about.
jesus fuck. get an education.

>> No.5839610

Coding skills were absolutely a problem. As the post I replied to illustrated, consolefags didn't have a clue how to work with the hardware. It wasn't the only problem. Eyecandy with shit gameplay was rampant on the the system due to retards who fancied themselves game designers. There was also a lot of pressure to shit out game quickly. Space was also a major problem. A lot of people prioritized that over, say, a better sounds track.

>> No.5839620

>Space was also a major problem
Was it? Floppy media was dirt cheap compared with ROM cartridges.

>> No.5839627

Not floppy media, system RAM. A stock A500 had only 512k, you could expand it to 1MB but the Mega Drive could still access up to 4MB of ROM which means a lot more space for sprite frames and whatnot.

>> No.5839632

>Eyecandy with shit gameplay was rampant on the the system due to retards who fancied themselves game designers
The reason for these kind of games was more that publishers wanted nice graphics that looked good in magazine screenshots. The Amiga unfortunately made it very very easy to do this.

>> No.5839638

It does boil down to coding skill. Many Amiga programmers didn't know how to do anything but collectathons and shmups because these are simple to program. You'd have to be a fairly god-level coder to pull off something as complex as Mega Man and these guys didn't have what it took.

>> No.5839645

> I once played two games of a certain theme and decided:
> yep, all amiga games are of a fixed genre
> but that was in a shop in 1988 and the rest is a blur due to amyl nitrate abuse
this is what your comment looks like.

>> No.5839714
File: 9 KB, 464x401, 1557296607276.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

(You) again...
>as a child I liked to persistently annoy my parents by putting Lego pieces in the VCR... tee hee!

>> No.5839742
File: 186 KB, 282x354, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]



Worked out pretty well actually

>> No.5839789

It was. Very few Amiga games were released on ROM cartridges. Do you even know what the capacity of an Amiga floppy was?

>> No.5839793

And it's yet another Amiga platformer with nice presentation but garbage controls (supports one joystick button in a game from 1994 for fuck's sake), poor level design, shit music, and nearly impossible difficulty.

>> No.5839809

Guy who's never played any Amiga before and, wow, looking at the video that seems to be the case, a less colorful version of Sonic with less fun/charismatic characters, worse music and overall everything is just less inspired.

It also has some other problems that come from Sonic like the camera not always helping you, but that's not just from Kid Chaos.

Honestly, looking at Amiga videos, there aren't many games i would actually want to play, only Speedball II looks interesting, and the Lotus games are apparently pretty good, but besides that, it's all strategy/simulation games like Populous that look decent, and quite a few of those are on PC and other platforms already.

Also, can anyone explain Cinemaware games to me, they do appear a lot in Amiga stuff but they kinda seem more like cinematic Wario Ware games?

In that the game parts always just seem to be really simple or kinda confusing but fast to get through, but the clear purpose is the story, making it feel like the only reason it isn't a David Cage game was because the technology wasn't there yet.

Though Wings does seem to have more to it's gameplay, but it's a kind of game i don't like to play sadly.

>> No.5839816

Also as usual, the enemies are extremely generic and you don't seem to do much other than collect tokens to unlock the next level.

>> No.5839818

>Do you even know what the capacity of an Amiga floppy was?
880k while Mega Drive carts could be as big as 4MB

>> No.5839819

>but besides that, it's all strategy/simulation games like Populous that look decent, and quite a few of those are on PC and other platforms already.
Up to 1990 the Amiga version of these is generally better. After 90, the PC.

>> No.5839821

Cinemaware games were pretty nice but of all the different versions, the C64 ones seem to have always had the best programming.

>> No.5839825

Kid Chaos is a decent enough game.
Everybody who watches the gameplay will immediately see through your bullshit. Why are you so desperate to push that narrative?
I hope you are at least getting paid for this.

>> No.5839827



Say on Earl Weaver Baseball (from 88) the Amiga version is easily better than the PC. I wouldn't want to play Indy and the Fate of Atlantis on the Amiga and have 32 color graphics and swapping 12 floppy disks over 256 colors and hard disk installation.

>> No.5839830

>Programming by Eddie Dombrawer
That is such a baseball sounding name, it's perfect.

>> No.5839843

>EWB had an Apple II version as well, no C64 one though
How weird.

>> No.5839851

The Apple version I think needs a 128k machine. That's likely why there's no C64 version--the extra memory was needed to accommodate the game physics.

>> No.5839896

Why did nobody support the C128? It allegedly sold more units than the Amiga.

>> No.5839906

They didn't bother mostly because it had nothing in terms of improved audiovisual capabilities while 128k Apple IIs added DHGR mode and the Spectrum 128 added a Yamaha PSG sound chip.

>> No.5839925

It had an extra Z80 CPU.

>> No.5839934

Useless and slow as fuck. It was mainly added to support CP/M and solve a compatibility issue with certain C64 cartridges.

>> No.5839975

ITT: Once again we learn that Nintendo lobotomised Americans so well that 30 years later they still put Japcrap on a pedestal and they cannot into Amiga

>> No.5840004

80 Line mode with RGBi was a visual improvement.

>> No.5840008

If only you also got sprites or raster IRQs with that. But you didn't.

>> No.5840107

So now that you know that do you understand how space was a problem?

>> No.5840164

It wasn't the disk space, it was the RAM. Most games were designed for an A500 with 512k-1MB RAM.

>> No.5840171

640 is enough for everything.

>> No.5840435

Would have been nice if the Amiga had hardware sprite flipping. So much memory could be saved.

>> No.5840823

Sorry kiddo but youtube lied to you. Having 880k disks limit the amount you can store on a disk to around 880k.

>> No.5840929

>supports one joystick button in a game from 1994 for fuck's sake
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but Sonic only needed one button. And since this is a Sonic clone, one button seems to be fine.

>> No.5840956

>You'd have to be a fairly god-level coder to pull off something as complex as Mega Man
you mean game designer?

>> No.5840973

Good thing we have Retro Gamer magazine to undo the damage.

>> No.5840995

Oh yeah, that magazine is just retro computer heaven, though i recall later issues focusing more and more on consoles.

If anyone didn't know anything about computer gaming that wasn't PC they will surely know after reading some issues of that magazine, still, i don't expect everyone who didn't grow up with old computers to play a lot of the games and come out with as much love for those games as the Retro Gamer guys have.

>> No.5841016

I still think, though, that the best Amiga games were usually the ones that fit the stereotypical style of computer game, strategy, simulation, RPG and adventure games for the most part.

And some odd exceptions like Speedball II and Turrican, i don't know, playing a lot of the best rated platformers, racing games or any genres typically associated with consoles and arcades makes me wonder why they are so liked.

Though i haven't played much if any shump that Amiga has, i do know quite a few shump fans hate Euroshumps, but Apidya doesn't look bad.

Also, how does one classify Cannon Fodder, because i like that game, but i consider it more of a mix of action and strategy game rather than a straight console like game.

>> No.5841032

The best amiga game is installing Workbench with custom icons and rtg acceleration; it's all downhill from there.

>> No.5841038

Retro gamer is RAER GEMZ!!! the magazine. Everything is great! We can't bash a release! We might not get that interview!

>> No.5841292

Except they do bash games, they have made lists of worst games on systems and talked about bad games, it's just that, since they are a Retro Gamer magazine, they prefer to focus on the good games of the past...and some modern games, and can't forget about the homebrew games that, to be fair, require old systems(or emulators) to play.

>> No.5841560

Has many roight classics like SUPER Zniggy!

>> No.5842014

>every Amiga thread
>the same "sorry kiddo Youtube lied to you" memester

>> No.5842016

Shmups are easier to program than platformers for the most part since you don't have to worry about physics.

>> No.5842017



>> No.5842018

>I still think, though, that the best Amiga games were usually the ones that fit the stereotypical style of computer game, strategy, simulation, RPG and adventure games for the most part.
Winner winner chicken dinner. The Amiga was better at cinematic style PC games than trying to be a console, arguable it was worse at trying to be a console than the C64 simply because it didn't have char graphics.

>> No.5842171

>every Amiga thread
>some kid gets called out for parroting bullshit

>> No.5842207

ITT: americans

>> No.5842276

What would be some of the best games on Amiga computers in that case, if looking at stuff like CRPGs, strategy, and point and clicks?

>> No.5842671

Dungeon Master
Indiana Jones

>> No.5842695

>Indiana Jones
Last Crusade of course, you don't want to play Fate of Atlantis on the Amiga.

>> No.5842707
File: 386 KB, 1900x1250, comfy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

When is the Vampire V4 independent board coming out?

>> No.5842760

Back in the day very overrated as games machine and very underrated otherwise.

>> No.5843882

>assholes in USA buying NES

because it had good games?

>> No.5843924

Amiga users don't actually seem to use their machines for anything, they know the games suck ass. They just upgrade it and build a shrine for it. The amiga software scene is practically dead.

>> No.5843958 [DELETED] 

good games don't mean much if the hardware they run on is outdated archaic shite

>> No.5844095

based on the gameplay footage the biggest issue I see is the art choices are fucking stupid. That kid does not look like someone that can move that fast. The animations are pretty terrible with that in mind, also. The aesthetic overall isn't horrible but it's not anything close to Sonic's eye-catching colors. Also this is a 1994 clone of a 1991 game

>> No.5844102

good games is all that matters, period.

>> No.5844125

assblasted eurofag

>> No.5844396


Could the NES do this? Thought not.

>> No.5844410

Never. WinUAE is faster anyways.

>> No.5844441

Demos =/= games

>> No.5844443

Today maybe, but up until Dec 1996 my roided up A4000 VT/Flyer combo did its usual 3D rendering duties. Of course at that time two Pentium PCs and a DEC Alpha already did most of the work, but still.

>> No.5844446

The point still stands.
No, you can't do this on Nintendo.

>> No.5844581

Alas, in the real world of computers and video games, it's software, not hardware that sells machines. That's why the PS1 bested its technically superior rivals.

>> No.5844586

>Console-style platformers like Superfrog never worked that well

>> No.5844590

The Amiga would struggle with a game like SMB3 or Kirby simply because its bitmap graphics are so resource-intensive. In particular because those two games have eight way scrolling. Doing that on the NES is easy, even on the C64 it's pretty easy. On the Amiga, eight way scrolling is a huge headache and ends up with around 40% CPU use. Also factoring in how the Amiga has memory mapped video that steals CPU cycles while the NES's video memory is port mapped and allows the CPU to run at full throttle.

>> No.5844594

Yeah, this >>5838580. Just set up an emulator and try the ones you are interested in for yourself.

>> No.5844595

Fire and Ice isn't too bad and Graftgold were a fairly solid developer, but it has the usual problem of the difficulty level being brutally hard and the game being close to impossible to beat. You have too few lives and no continues and the controls are also pretty bad.

As for Ruff & Tumble, the full 32 color graphics come at the price of 25 fps scrolling. If they'd simply been willing to give that up and limit themselves to 16 colors, they might have been able to pull off 50/60 fps. In platformers, speed and responsive controls are a must and this game doesn't have it. You can't aim and fire up or down a slope which pretty much ruins playability.

>> No.5844604
File: 6 KB, 225x225, index.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Ruff n' Tumble uses EHB mode to get 64 colors on screen. Your point still stands however.

>> No.5844610

>Also, how does one classify Cannon Fodder
As a mix of action and strategy, just like you said. It really benefits from using a mouse. But you don't really need an Amiga to play since it was ported to lots of platforms and there is a source port avaliable.

>> No.5844616

>You can't aim and fire up or down a slope
You just need to stop, press Fire, and then move the joystick/press the arrows for the directional fire. Or the other way around, i don't remember well.

>> No.5844636

I can't remember ever seeing an Amiga game with eight directional scrolling desu.

>> No.5844641

Did Amiga programmers ever playtest their games? It seems like bad controls and impossible difficulty are a given every time.

>> No.5844648

Would YOU give a flying fuck if you were 19-20, tasked to recreate arcade games from scratch in 8 weeks and getting paid a few hundred $ for it?

>> No.5844650

The games being linked are OC, not ports though. Ports have been discussed before and with rare exception most were kind of doomed to be garbage from the outset. Judging by interviews with Amiga programmers, it seems that licensed games and arcade ports were the two things they dreaded the most.

>extremely tight deadlines
>arcade ports done with no access to the original source code or assets
>licensed games usually suffered from the owner of the license imposing rigid rules about the game content

>> No.5844653

Isn't that what happened to Superman 64? DC kept badgering Titus about what content the thing was and wasn't allowed to have, thus the stupid flying-through-rings levels because Superman wasn't allowed to punch people.

>> No.5844656

There's a bunch of them across a lot of different genres with 8 way scrolling. It's not the smoothest in most cases but its there.

>> No.5844750

Yes it does, actually. Never come to /vr/ again.

>> No.5844818

I am sorry, did you miss the name of the board? If you did, it is /vr/ - Retro Games, not /rh/ - Retro Hardware

>> No.5845036

No. The term "playtest" is a millennialism and no one used it when Amiga games were being made. The answer to what you really want to know depends very much on exactly what you choose the term to mean.

>> No.5845197
File: 672 KB, 1389x1652, Inve$t.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Are you sure about that? A lot a people complain about the same genres over and over again. I personally was more annoyed by another genre, that hardly is mentioned around these threads for whatever reason. And this also wasn't a pure Amiga thing. Back in the day I was kinda bummed out by all those sim games, that came out for every system, but especially the Amiga and C64. And those were all the business sims (that some people call spreadsheet games). You had such games as heading a newspaper, TV-studio, hospital, hotel, winery, road hauler, oil company, stockjobber, car manufacturer, all those very "speadsheedy" soccer managers (their numbers were legion), let alone all the medieval and renaissance age merchant sims etc. This was just too much for me, I'd rather played more adventure games like Darkmere or Lure of the Temptress but especially the french adventure games from Delphine and stuff like that, but you really got bombarded with all those management sims, that also hardly were the often accused eye candy games.

>> No.5845229

The C128 would've been a much more attractive system, if they'd have managed to make both processors work in tandem. But since you only could use one of them in the end it was pretty useless. Also despite the 80 column mode of the C128 was more aimed towards the usage in productive software, Commodore, as incompetent as they were, never managed to gain foothold in this market and probably didn't even care that much about it. Just like the C128 the main factor of the failure of the Amiga was less caused by the hardware (which was awesome for quite a while) or the software and games, but more caused by Commodores mind-numbing incompetence on all levels.Or just like the Amiga devs said via the hidden easter egg in the Workbench 1.2 "We made the Amiga, They fucked it up".

>> No.5845653

>And those were all the business sims (that some people call spreadsheet games)
I think the term usually means CRPGs.

>> No.5845664

Ultima V only had music if you ran it on a C128. One of the big disadvantages the C64 had vis a vis the NES is that the latter has ROMs that can be switched in on the fly. Most NES games work by switching in the level data, reading it, switching it out, then switching in the sound data (graphics data if you have CHR RAM). As a consequence, the level data is only switched in when the game engine needs to read it. On a C64, you can't do that, you have to load the level, graphics, and sound data from disk all in one big piece which eats a lot of memory.

>> No.5846063

Does anyone know how many unique function buttons the Amiga Joystick has?

Like the C64 joystick only had one unique function which I think is a real design flaw.

>> No.5846239

>unique function buttons
None. All the joysticks just had regular buttons
>the Amiga Joystick
No such thing

>> No.5846428

They had the Commodore PC for productivity.

>> No.5848564
File: 9 KB, 159x158, 1566512671435.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.5848572

>flat, blocky levels
>jank physics
>neanderthal protagonist
>awful, repetitive music
yep, it's European.

>> No.5848789

>flat, blocky levels
>jank physics
>neanderthal protagonist
>awful, repetitive music
yep, it's AMerican


>> No.5848801

NES and SNES games were obviously playtested as were Arcade games (probably even more than console games). Maybe it was just called QA or something like that but it obviously happened.

>> No.5848823

You are both fgts

>> No.5848837

Man I could really go for a Chupa Chups™ right now.

>> No.5848940

So you're saying that you, as a zoomer/millennial, choose the term "playtested" to mean "played as far as I ever have, maybe the first few levels"? Because there are many examples of games not being tested very well. Some of the most infamous are those arcade games that you think were "probably even more than console games". Because that's what actually happened.

>> No.5849130

In controller port there is input for 1 button and 2 analog inputs for paddles that can be used for extra buttons, but rarely were. Most games were made with 1-button Atari-style shitstick in mind.

>> No.5849204
File: 60 KB, 800x800, CompetitionPro001.jpg90a1a93e-ffa3-4f15-a907-d2b536dbf9caOriginal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some people actually believe the 1-button joystick situation meant 1-button only games, which is not true.
A ton of games (almost all bigger titles), including action and arcade games used multiple inputs. Those other inputs were on the keyboard, mostly the space bar, but sometimes the alt or shift key.
So you had your joystick (pic related) in front of the keyboard so you can reach all keys + fire button with one hand and have the other hand on the stick.
You moved your fingers pretty much the same way you did on an arcade control panel. Joysticks also had suction cups underneath, so the whole setup was stable.
That's how everyone I knew played on their Amiga.

The "1-button games" label is misleading. Games had several inputs. For action games you imitated the control layout of an arcade panel on the Amiga with joystick and keyboard in tandem.

>> No.5849241

Why didn't they use the numpad for games?

>> No.5849260

They could have had a separate keyboard only control scheme for every game.
They didn't.
Some game devs are just feckin wankers.

>> No.5849265

I wish I was a zoomer. But I wish more that there were fewer retards like you posting on /vr/.

>> No.5849310
File: 97 KB, 415x454, 1533057779701.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Is the Amiga very overrated?
As a computer? No.
As a gaming-only platform? Sure.

>> No.5849319

Except not? '030 and '060 accelerators at the time together with the price of a 1200 with a decent monitor in around 95-97 costed less than a 68k Macintosh. PowerPC accelerators less than PowerPC Macintoshes together with the system.

Sure there's videos of people using modern accelerators and other FPGA based solutions, but that's true for almost every system these days.

It runs on a 100% stock Amiga 4000 though, unless you think adding a single stick of additional RAM makes it non-stock (that was also available pre-configured in stores at the time).

>> No.5849324

That fact that they say it's playable on a '040 in a 1200 with AGA only is amazing. Can't wait for a release.

>> No.5849415

Using the joystick at all was just fucking dumb in those cases, keyboard having both arrow keys and a numpad.

>> No.5849528


>> No.5849537

I never saw a single Amiga in use anywhere in 95-97 let alone to see accelerators in a store.

>> No.5849568

Zool was supposed to be the sonic killer. They managed to make it pretty speedy but fuck it was an unpolished tied when it came to controls and gameplay. By 1991 anyone with half a brain jumped ship and bought a snes or MD.

>> No.5849578

All the later cards and beefy accelerators were order only stuff afaik. German companies were especially proficient with these designs and their sale.

>> No.5849637

US? Since here in Europe we had shops specializing in Amiga stuff even in the late 90's.

This also. But I remember having Blizzards for sale in computer stores too. At least they had one on display and still ordered if you brought one.

>> No.5849645

That looks frustrating as fuck. Player gets stuck for 10 minutes trying to cross a gap on a floating piece of ice.

>> No.5849779

Just like every console since the NES could have used mouse and keyboard for a ton of games. They were easily capable of it.
But there was almost zero support for stuff like that.
In hindsight, quite a lot of decisions and trends in gaming systems (past and present) were stupid as hell.
Thankfully all that just doesn't matter when you use an emulator and/or software to remap controls.Makes retro games so much more enjoyable now than they were back when.

>> No.5849807

>The Amiga was better at cinematic style PC games than trying to be a console
huh? Isn't the whole reason people praise the amiga is that it actually had dedicated hardware like consoles did for graphics? Amiga developers just sucked ass at making them.

>> No.5849837 [DELETED] 


>> No.5850024 [DELETED] 

*trying to be a 90's console

>> No.5850045

The difference being that on Amiga the keyboard was a integral part of the machine, the joysticks you had to buy separately. Not having keyboard controls in a system like that is just pure insanity.

I just cannot understand the whole fascination with joysticks in early days of computer games outside consoles.

>> No.5850367

>he soundly refuted all my claims
>maybe if i can him a retard no one will notice
Everyone noticed you're a tard

>> No.5850503

What the absolute frig are talking about?


>> No.5850507


>> No.5850671

That's genuinely interesting to me.

I imagine they might have thought it to be more comfortable than keyboard keys.
Optionally they just really wanted to imitate the arcades.

I can't think of many games on the NES which I would find mouse and keyboard desirable for. I guess Shadowgate and stuff like that?
Not that much more for SNES; Simcity, Simcity 2000, Metal Marines, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, those are a couple, but they're all ports of PC games and I feel I might as well just play the home computer versions instead.
Granted a 486 computer to play Doom was probably more expensive than a SNES.

>> No.5850674

I can't say I care that much for joysticks either, but it's probably because arcade games and consoles had them, and they wanted to sell to people the idea that you could have games like that on a home computer as well.

>> No.5850708

Over 6 years of identical threads.
Seriously, might as well copy paste posts from the archive, it's always the same arguments and dumb shit.

>> No.5852440
File: 48 KB, 800x600, Rubber.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Over 6 years of identical threads
Because Americans

>> No.5852483

>under 6 year olds making identical threads
I've heard it both ways

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