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/vr/ - Retro Games


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5807545 No.5807545 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

I've seen people here say humans can't perceive lag under certain amounts. Let's settle this once and for all. How much lag are you sensitive to? Everyone take the test and report back. https://input-delay.glitch.me

>> No.5807579

>>5807545
Even the 10ms setting wasn't good.

>> No.5807581

>>5807545
20-30ms I can still stomach (but I can feel it the heaviness setting in), 35ms is already too far. 15 is the highest I can feel kinda fine about, but I'm not using my proper writing keyboard at the moment to give you a proper judgement.

>> No.5807584

>>5807545
This is useless. Typing is nothing like playing videogames. While you need eye-hand coordination for both activities, typing is way more lag-tolerant that say, Super Mario Bros.
While annoying, I can type consistently well with a lag of 200ms. Playing SMB like that would drive me insane and kill all enjoyment of the gameplay.

>> No.5807601

>>5807584
It still gives you that similar sense of heaviness or stickiness that you get playing something like SMB on an emulator, even though it's not detrimental in the same way.

>> No.5807615
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5807615

>>5807545
This is where Retroarch's run-ahead technology can make up the difference. Now that emulation is better than the original hardware.

>> No.5807620

>>5807615
>Now that emulation is better than the original hardware.
I wish. It's a nice fantasy.

>> No.5807627

>>5807620
Zoomer detected. Emulation is great for 4th and 5th gen, I can't think of any games that aren't working now. But if you like 6th gen, you're out of luck and should go back to /v/

>> No.5807630 [DELETED] 

>>5807545
Just because you don't notice or perceive it doesn't mean it's not affecting or even ruining the gameplay. If you react in 190ms but there's 40ms lag then that's 240ms even if you don't realize it. It'll always be just that little bit off and you'll never directly perceive why.

>> No.5807636

>>5807545
Just because you don't notice or perceive it doesn't mean it's not affecting or even ruining the gameplay. If you react in 190ms but there's 40ms lag then that's 230ms even if you don't realize it. It'll always be just that little bit off and you'll never directly perceive why. And it's not just at critical moments, it's at every possible point during the gameplay, that's why lag sucks, and when you add it all up in emulation it's huge.

>> No.5807679

>>5807627
My favourite console is NES/Famicom and unfortunately emulation doesn't cut it.

>> No.5807685

>>5807627
>But if you like 6th gen, you're out of luck and should go back to /v/
luckily, non-retro games are garbage for retarded babies and you can win by facerolling the controller even if there's half an hour of lag

>> No.5807703

>>5807615
fuck off shill

>> No.5807709

>>5807703
isnt retroarch free? how is he shilling

>> No.5807710

>>5807679
couldn't agree more here

>> No.5807719

>>5807636
You're paranoid

>> No.5807727

>>5807627
>Zoomer detected. Emulation is great for 4th and 5th gen, I can't think of any games that aren't working now
You've got to be shitting me. The playstation is the only console with even passable emulation. The emulation you see for N64 is all HLE so inherently only approximations. If Super Mario 64 seems to play well that's fine, but it's not proper emulation. What are you on about "can't think of any games that aren't working now", plenty of 5th gen games run but terribly.

>> No.5807763

>>5807727
"It just works" for me. Try mupen64plus for N64 and mednafen for Saturn next time.

>> No.5807858

>>5807545
Hot take: lag is a problem that's only as big as you make it.
The more you look for it, the more it's going to bother you.

Or you have a really shitty TV.

>> No.5807989

>>5807545
I've seen people here see something on the internet, not understand it, and imagine it means something else. Last time I saw it was this faggot >>5807545

>> No.5809682

>>5807545
>How much lag are you sensitive to?
I can notice 1 frame in games i am really familiar with like Gimmick and Mario 3. Otherwise 2 frames roughly.

>> No.5809690

>>5807545
>https://input-delay.glitch.me
I think around 78-80 is the maximum for me. any higher and it became noticeably jarring.

>> No.5812063

It seems most people are pretty sensitive to lag. I wonder if we'll see more people switching from original hardware to emulation over the years for this reason specifically. I know SNES has about 3 or 4 frames of lag for most games but emulation can make it 2 or less.

>> No.5812070

>>5812063
Good joke but literally nobody could be dumb enough to think this.

>> No.5812075
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5812075

>>5812070
Unfortunately it's true :/ There are more than 3 frames of lag for every SNES game, sometimes 4.

>> No.5812078
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5812078

>> No.5812124

>>5812075
>Unfortunately it's true :/ There are more than 3 frames of lag for every SNES game, sometimes 4.
No there isn't, that wouldn't make sense. Show any source. With emulation you're introducing a lot of lag in addition to the natural lag of the game and you can't just make it disappear without introducing bugs and glitches.

>> No.5812210

>>5812124
It's actually pretty easy to measure yourself.. I don't think anyone besides you really disputes the fact that the SNES has a few frames of latency.
Also emulation can make lag disappear due to technical oversights by the original developers which can be rectified by emulation developers.
Here's your source for showing an original SNES on a CRT has noticeable lag https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407/424
I was surprised when I first found out too, so I don't blame you for finding it hard to believe and demanding a source. The more you dive into this hobby, the more surprising things you'll learn, so welcome aboard.

>> No.5812236

>>5807636
Nigga no game is that fucking tight that 40ms of lag matters. You're not doing brain surgery, you're bplaying bing bing wahoo videogames.

hell, your aging body is more likely to be the cause why you suck at videogames now than min

>> No.5812243

>>5807727
>b-but it's not REAL emulation!
>m-muh authenic experience!

I don't give a shit. I came here to play cool games, not relive my childhood or argue about proper color of sky in mario.

>> No.5812249

>>5812236
For me, 40ms is actually too much lag. Maybe you're one of those guys that mostly plays JRPGs and doesn't really have quick reflexes, but I play a lot of arcade type games and even a little bit of lag is kind of annoying. I just like having instant input and testing my skill that way, on hard modes of games or whatever. Again, some people can't even feel lag at that level so I don't blame you if improving on the 40ms lag isn't a priority for you, but you should understand that for other people it is. Kind of like how having a super accurate translation of your favorite JRPG might be a big deal for you but no one else really cares.

>> No.5812262

>>5812249
I mean, I completed F-Zero X/GX on original hardware AND, years later, on emulatorand use PSP emulator for shmups while on commute so i'm not sure what to say except people are different and react to lag differently

>> No.5812351

Question: let's say my monitor has 5ms of lag. And my controller has 4ms. Do they add up or only the biggest works?

>> No.5812370

>>5812351
They add up. No monitor has 5ms lag. A CRT has >8 and the quickest LCD has >9.
So, let's say you have an SNES and CRT. You're looking at >30 from the SNES + >8 from the CRT, so at least 38ms total lag.
With emulation and a quick LCD, using run ahead, you can get around 15 ms from emulation + >9ms from the monitor. A total of about >24ms of lag, not bad.

>> No.5812372

>>5812063
The best experience if you're sensitive to lag is original hardware. Runahead partially compensates for the already terrible lag of emulators/OS/USB bringing it closer to original hardware, but it only has 1-2 frames to work with in NES, SNES and MD games before it starts dropping animation frames. Then there's audio latency which is far worse than original hardware, and input lag consistency, which is also worse in emulation. It's a necessary evil when you can't find or can't afford arcade boards, and I'm thankful that it exists, but the order from best experience to worst is original everything > OG HW + flash cart > FPGA > software emulation.

>> No.5812379

>>5812236
The problem with lag is rarely about performance (rhythm games are shit with input or audio latency and Punch-Out!! needs pretty low latency); the problem is how the game feels, and any amount of input or audio latency makes action games feel worse, especially in rhythm games, platformers and run 'n guns. Emulation is fine for trying out a game, but for actually playing through one it's pretty bad.

>> No.5812451

>>5812370
>A CRT has >8 and the quickest LCD has >9.
But /vr/ keeps telling me CRT doesn't have input lag!

>> No.5812462

Display lag != input lag

>> No.5812470

>>5812462
The adults are talking about total roundtrip lag, but nice try kiddo.

>> No.5812473

>>5812370
>You're looking at >30 from the SNES + >8 from the CRT, so at least 38ms total lag.
>With emulation and a quick LCD, using run ahead, you can get around 15 ms from emulation + >9ms from the monitor. A total of about >24ms of lag, not bad.
You have quite the imagination.

>> No.5812479

>>5812473
What are your numbers? If you're claiming other than has been proved with numerous separate tests, you'll need to provide some sort of evidence for your outrageous claims. Are you saying an SNES has way more lag, like 100ms? Or are you saying it has less, like only one frame or 15ms?

>> No.5812481

>>5812470
>kiddo
This reeks of insecurity and frustration. Nice attempt at damage control though. You don't know a damn thing.

>> No.5812497
File: 212 KB, 552x414, not sure if trolling or just very stupid.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5812497

>>5812075

>> No.5812523

>>5812479
I'm saying that in my tests with runahead set to highest setting per game before animation frames are removed, and frame delay set to 12 (haven't been able to test at 15 yet, but that's only saving 3 additional ms), I've never been able to get results below hardware latency on either NTSC NES, SNES or Mega Drive using a supposedly 2ms raphnet adapter and CRT @ 60hz.

>> No.5812538

>>5812523
What emulator core were you using? Maybe it's an old one because I can get down to 2 frames lag roundtrip and my computer isn't very good.

>> No.5812573

>>5812538
Tested with snes9X (current version), quicknes and genesis plus gx; win10 d3d11 and lakka.

>> No.5812602

only zoomers care about fps and graphics
good games are good even if they go potato and you babies are complaining about miliseconds

>> No.5812613

>>5812573
>win10
Oof try installing Arch or a similar Linux and then video_driver=dispanx, video_max_swapchain_images=2, video_threaded=false. You'll get much better performance.

>> No.5812741

>>5812613
Lakka's based on Arch Linux; latency should be equivalent or even better than with a vanilla Arch install.

>> No.5814901

>>5812124
>and you can't just make it disappear without introducing bugs and glitches.
You can. This is what runahead is for.

>> No.5815512

>>5814901
>babys first shitpost

>> No.5815517

>>5815512
That's literally what runahead does.

>> No.5815518

People who care about this shit are pathetic.

>> No.5815658

>>5815517
Makes babies shitpost? I know. That's my point.

>> No.5815798

>>5815518
How depressed do you have to be to enter a thread about a topic you don't deem worthy and let everyone know how you feel? Get out, hoardlard

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