Baldur's Gate and Infinity Engine Games

[Anonymous No.5784569]

It's been awhile since the last thread fell off. Get in here and relax with the comfiest retro RPG saga.

[Anonymous No.5784579]

To kick off the thread, I'm going to take a run at going through BG1 and BG2 for the umpteenth time with as standard a run as it gets.

>No Enhanced Editions
>No mods
>Canon party
>Insane difficulty
>90pt spread

Pure relaxation inbound.

[Anonymous No.5785097]

My hard drive died while I was in Chapter 4. I haven't played the game in years and I planned to go trough BG2 too, but always happens the same shit. Some time ago I was playing Fallout 2 and my PC died just in the middle. PC gaming sucks.

[Anonymous No.5785532]

Been playing IWD vanilla bc fuck all the fancy bullshit mods and what have you.
Took the silly gnome up on his nonsense quest thinking it was gonna be a walk in the park.
>this fucking fight comes up
>get buffs dispelled on my 2*FIGHTER/CLERIC + FIGHTER/THIEF/MAGE like a dozen times
>-11 AC not even close for the ghostly fucks to ever miss
>realize I'm in for a joyride bc this shit may as well be impossible
>finally figure out kiting works while hoping for finger of death to spare me
>must have been been reloading for good 30 min by now
>realize luremaster is still lurking on the edge of the screen teleporting around
>it's fucking impossible to get close and he has a metric shitton of HP
>finally keel over from Cone of Cold and other bullshit he throws at me while tp'ing like he was a sorc from D2
Literally the only reason I got through this shit was bc I managed to save before dispatching the absolute tping madman, and not before he ran out of like 99 dimension door instances he had memorized.
What an absolutely bonkers fucking encounter, what were they thinking.

[Anonymous No.5786067]

>>5784579
I made a pretty straight shot from Candlekeep to grab the Harpers, avoided quests down to Nashkel to grab Minsc and then a b-line to the Gnoll Stronghold for Dynaheir. Given how atrociously the AI will roll on HP if you pick these guys up later, I wasn't wasting any time.

Now it's back to the Friendly Arm and Beregost to pick up all the quests I missed.

[Anonymous No.5786217]

>>5786067
How do you play the original?

[Anonymous No.5786232]

>>5786217
GOG version.

[Anonymous No.5786369]

>>5786067
Enjoy your Bard, bro; even if the song is horrible, they're still a really underrated BG1 class.

[Anonymous No.5786378]

>>5784579
Goodspeed on your journey. I have to admit I am completely unable to play BG1 without mods nowadays. I guess those have been injected into my bloodstream nowadays.
And I kinda forgot how comfy unmodded BG 1 really is.

[Anonymous No.5786593]

>>5786369
Why they couldn't do them like in IWD? They are an amazing class there.

[Anonymous No.5786849]

You know what's fucking comfy? The latest version of the tweaks anthology and its component increasing movement speed outside of combat.
Fuck yeah, fucking finally

[Anonymous No.5786883]

>>5786593
IWD bards are arguably overpowered. Once you get the regeneration song, all bets are off, the game dynamic changes completely.

[Anonymous No.5786885]

>>5786883
I've been playing IWD since 12 years ago or so, I thought bards were shit like in BG so I never used one until my last run some months ago. It was mindblowing.

[Anonymous No.5786986]

>>5785532
Back when I played the original version, I remember that whole quest was one of the most tedious, frustrating shit I've experienced in any game.

[Anonymous No.5786993]

>>5786986
That's not a quest though, it's a whole expansion.
It was made because people complained about Heart of Winter being too easy and too short, and it was free.

[Anonymous No.5787042]

Has anyone tried SCS v32 and the newly added Icewind Dale spells? I've specifically switched to the EE to start a new run with this component yesterday but I haven't had much opportunities to use them so far since I barely started. Seems to work great though. Which ones are useful, which ones are trash?
I'm sad to admit that once modded, beamdog content out, and the UI slightly refined to look closer to the original, the EE is actually pretty fucking good

[Anonymous No.5787327]

>>5786986
Yeah, it's funny how that works. 10 years ago I woulda hated the whole thing, but now I kinda enjoyed it for a comfy dungeon crawl it was.
Shit like that is why being a dev is horrible because spoiled zoomers will instantly discard your game unless it has the best pacing ever. Zoom zoom.

[Anonymous No.5787474]

>>5785097
which portraits?

[Anonymous No.5787487]

>>5787474
Baldur's Gate Dungeon Meshi portrait pack.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fPFBOoG_LQobRcgdVxzLnhKuI2s7G8e8/view

[Anonymous No.5787491]

>>5786369
No they are not underrated BG1 class, they are shit class. Just a (some) wands user, composite long bow with chain user with shit THACO, and slow spell progression, with occasional pick pocket and free identify. Fighter/mage/thief is better in every way if you want a hybrid class in vanilla BG 1.

[Anonymous No.5787493]

>>5787491
Not to mention Garrick and Eldoth have shit dex and int, so they can't shoot, and scribe spells for shit without reloading.

[Anonymous No.5787560]

>>5785532
I had a considerably harder time with the room full of harpies on the last level of the dungeon (the one with the gems and portals) and the rakshasa group in the library. All the ghosts and undead battles were trivialized by Three White Doves on my fighter/cleric, that 20% chance to instakill is nuts.

[Anonymous No.5787927]

>>5787560
>Three White Doves
Oof, if that's an item you find, it woulda come in handy. I did see some mace the cleric was selling for a 100k on the barbarian island, but I just accepted the quest the minute I got to the tavern (Firkraag was easy, what could go wrong this time, right?). If that's the item then I probably would have skipped it still for that price.
>I had a considerably harder time with the room full of harpies
Yeah, that's just the thing. My fighters are all top notch, even rolled 18/00 for all 3 of them, which took fucking ages. My buffed party has like -27 AC, and the mage casts stone skin/illusions on himself and nothing touches him either. Except all that is for nothing when the ghosts sport like 300 HP and infinite dispel while every hit they dish out disrupts my casting, lol. Granted I didn't get to wasting all the potions I collected, but damn did they corner me proper. All I could truly do without potions was to try to take out 2 ghosts at a time while kiting the rest with the 3rd guy.

[Anonymous No.5788563]

>>5787927
Wow, that sounds horrible. How to play icewindale 1 to avoid all this? I mean, which version/expansions.

[Anonymous No.5788707]

>>5787491
a package of wands (most important ones; who cares about being unable to use Wand of the Heavens?), bows and some spellcasting is just good enough
lore and pickpocketing are nice too since they free up hassle
making a competent bard isn't hard at all
>f/m/t
bards: 16 base thac0 at xp cap, f/m/t = 15, which is comparable; similar ramp up speeds
bards: 1x 4th level spellslot, f/m/t = none (not to mention Bards' increased caster level ergo stronger fireballs, magic missiles and the like), also additional 2nd level spellslot
they're not at all that bad
f/m/t has a backstab and weapon specialization in exchange for worse spellcasting (contrary to the class you're comparing them to)
bards have no problem soloing either game anyway

[Anonymous No.5788896]

>>5788707
only humans and half elves can become bards, which are the weakest races. you don't get fighter bonus from constitution like in f/x. also lower Apr, lower taco, lack of find traps. if you don't need a thief there is also f/m, which is better mage, especially when ilusionist. bard is inferior and not at all underrated

[Anonymous No.5788986]

>>5788896
>only humans and half elves can become bards, which are the weakest races
proposed F/M/T gets to be elf, which is cool but nevertheless I find race choice outside of "shorty or not shorty" is trivial.
>you don't get fighter bonus from constitution like in f/x
base max HP for f/m/t at BG1 level cap is 38 (63 with maximum rolls and max CON)
base max HP for bard at BG1 level cap is 60 (80 with maximum rolls and max CON)
>lower apr and thac0
already acknowledged
>lack of find traps
okay
>bard is inferior and not at all underrated
it is underrated insofar as people failing to recognize its potential as wand carrier and secondary caster, thinking only about the bard song
yes it's not a top tier build but it's perfectly viable and can deal with anything in its path
also, if you want a solid protagonist to import to BG2, bards get fantastic kits and other support from the sequel and they're well worth playing

[Anonymous No.5789052]

>>5788986
f/m is shorty, and it makes more sense to compare f/m to bard rather than f/m/t.

why would you need bard?

[Anonymous No.5789060]

>>5789052
>why would you need bard?
purely for fun
I find it better to ask yourself the question of "how to have fun with this class" rather than to dismiss something out of hand because it's worse than a munchkin multiclass

as it stands, what Bards bring to the table makes for a solid mid-tier class and that's all
and again, they are amazing for import in full trilogy runs
that's all I'm arguing for - they're underrated because they're thought of as absolute shit whereas they deserve better appraisal on the basis of what they bring rather than focusing solely on weaknesses.
I was not the one who went off about how bards are strictly inferior to F/M/Ts

Considering that F/I is one of the most powerful combos in the game, claiming that something sucks because it compares unfavorably to them is a wee bit disingeuous.

Also, Bards will still have stronger-scaling spells (like Fireball) than either multiclass simply because they cap out at 10 levels of caster.
Solo Bard can also run a pickpocketing spree that a F/M can't, which can be great in a solo run (either for funding your consumables earlier or stealing stuff like Algernon's Cloak).
16 CON Bard has more HP than the multis and 18 CON Bard can wear a Claw of Kazgaroth with no penalties.
Overall you have a guy who will fire an Arrow of Detonation / Biting / Piercing, cast a powerful Fireball, do some stealing, carry all your wands and have a lot of HP all in a single package, and that's just good enough for me.

[Anonymous No.5789068]

>>5788563
It's just the final fight of a dungeon that a tavern gnome teleports you to if you agree. Completely skippable. Just don't enter until you get Three White Doves. And you can also grind money to a ridiculous extent; I spent half an hour taking out Giant Skeletons which netted me 180k in gold, lmao.

[Anonymous No.5789087]

>>5789060
but it's worse than any class

[Anonymous No.5789095]

>>5789087
no u

[Anonymous No.5789209]

What do I play if I want to wreck everything in BG1? No multi class please but I'd be ok with a party of 2

[Anonymous No.5789229]

>>5789209
cleric dwarf and recruit coran

[Anonymous No.5789230]

>>5789229
Ty kind anon

[Anonymous No.5789236]

>>5789229
level up on sirens and then when you can make skeletons level on basilisks.

[Anonymous No.5789251]

>>5786067
So... I fucked up. After clearing Nashkel, I started to wander the Sword Coast and clearing the various maps. God, it was the picture of comfiness.

Then I ran into the Sirens. They started Dire Charming my group and I used the Cloak of Algernon to charm them right back. Now, there's a bug where if you charm a charmed person, they turn permanently hostile when the second charm wears off. This is easily bypassed by temporarily removing them from your group and re-adding them.

It was late. I forgot that obviously won't work on the main character. So now, it's either Dire Charm him every 10 hours when the Cloak charm wears off throughout the Bandit Camps, Cloakwood, Baldur's Gate, Candlekeep and endgame, or just give up.

Feeling pretty demotivated.

[Anonymous No.5789345]

>>5789209
Two-weapon pure fighter is always the one class you'll never be able to recruit. Mastery gives you -2 THAC0. Give him buffs and everything drops before they can do anything. That's your safest bet for best DPS.

[Anonymous No.5789585]

>>5789345
>Two-weapon pure fighter
That won't work in vanilla BG1, and if you're using a BGT conversion, "best DPS" is likely a dual-wielding Berserker or Archer, not a pure Fighter.

[Anonymous No.5789609]

>>5789251
Have you tried enabling cheat keys and CTRL+R'ing your character? At least in BG2, that removes buffs and debuffs, which could work. You might also be able to remove it with GateKeeper.

A somewhat more extreme method would be to export your character, transfer the save game to the multiplayer folder and load it from there. Then you can delete and replace the character, and move the save game back to the singleplayer folder if the issue is fixed. Don't know if that breaks any global flags, though.

[Anonymous No.5790225]

I'm about to start Icewind Dale, but I see there's no Weapon Styles to put proficiency points in on character creation.
Will I be able to put points into Weapon Styles on level-up, or are they just not in IWD?

I literally cannot get any information either way on non-EE IWD through Google. Insanely frustrating.

[Anonymous No.5790646]

>>5790225
Weapon styles weren't part of the "BG1.5" updates IWD uses. There's some hacky two weapon fighting implementation for rangers with an empty offhand (?), but that's it.

[Anonymous No.5790670]

>>5790646
So I see.
I'm looking at BG2inIWD, but I don't really have the harddrive space.
Would you happen to know of any lower-tech mods that implement BG2's skill system, or even just weapon styles?

[Anonymous No.5790705]

IWD2 is shit

[Anonymous No.5790721]

>>5789251
I think you gave your character permanent magically induced brain damage anon

this is, narratively, a pretty cool way for him to die before you start a new, better character

[Anonymous No.5790742]

I'm trying to do Aldeth's quest in Cloakwood but he won't initiate dialogue. If I talk to him he just tells me he has nothing to say to me.

Any workaround? Something I can do with the Console, or GateKeeper?

>>5790705
I agree.

[Anonymous No.5790759]

>>5790670
I'm not aware of any. I think you'll have to choose between finding some disk space, playing the EE version or doing without weapon styles entirely.

[Anonymous No.5790781]

>>5790742
low charisma of main character maybe or very low reputation. try switching leader

[Anonymous No.5790790]

>>5790781
No, it's definitely a bug. My Cha is 20 and my Rep is 12.
I used the CLUAConsole to move him to Baldur's Gate and jump to the part of the quest where he opens the Merchant League to us by very luckily finding the command CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("AldethMove","GLOBAL",1) in a thread where someone was having a sort of similar problem.

However, after killing all the Doppelgangers in the Merchant League, Aldeth reverts back to his bugged dialog, pic related.

I'm trying to Google all the global variables so I can Console my way through the quest, but no dice so far.

[Anonymous No.5791228]

>>5784569
Are these good games to play if I want to learn regular tabletop d&d but don't know anyone who plays it? If not, what would u recommend

[Anonymous No.5791262]

>>5791228
Baldur's Gate is definitely a great series and very fun to play, but I'm not sure if you're going to derive a great learning opportunity.

BG came out as an adaptation of the 2nd edition of AD&D; we're currently on the 5th edition and most gaming groups play 5e or 3.5e (or 3.5e's fork, Pathfinder). AD&D 2e, while fun and playable, is somewhat phased out within the tabletop gaming niche, so learning stuff from BG might later serve you a tiny bit of unlearning (unless, of course, you find an AD&D 2E gaming group).

The "crunchiest" video game that is trying its hardest to be true to tabletop mechanics while confined to a mainstream edition is probably Temple of Elemental Evil, which adapts the 3rd edition of D&D, but, of course, it will still be a facsimile of the real thing as tabletop games are also about the social aspect.

If you want to learn tabletop games and don't have a group, try playing online (it's very likely you could get hooked up with a 5e group on a forum or on a Discord) or asking /tg/ for advice. Baldur's Gate is a ton of fun and it will teach you a little bit about stats, skills and the party dynamics (fighter-wizard-rogue-cleric), but it might not be the 100% match for your needs. Still, you could do worse than playing some of the best games in the genre.

[Anonymous No.5792089]

Alright dudes I've got a mod in my BGT install that prevents "empty" swings from playing, so characters' attack animations correspond directly to their APR.

The problem is I have no goddamn idea where I got it or what modpack it's a part of. I'm combing through the readmes of every BGT mod I've ever even thought of using and I can't find it anywhere.

Would anyone happen to know? I really want to add it to my BGToSC install if I can.

[Anonymous No.5792112]

>>5792089
ToBEx does that, but (as the name suggests) it won't work on a BG1 engine install.

[Anonymous No.5792129]

>>5792112
Out of sheer desperation I just Googled "attack animations same as APR" and found https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/33757/turn-off-non-attack-roll-attacks. The method only involves dropping a couple .pngs into the Override folder.
I checked my BGT Override folder and it has those same .pngs. No idea how it works but I'm hopeful that it will.
I'm just about to fire up the game and try it. Reinstalling my Widescreen mod ATM.

[Anonymous No.5792150]

>>5792112
>>5792129
Ayy, it totally worked.
Feels good man.
Now if only the GUI fix for ToSC came in a resolution besides 1280x720

[Anonymous No.5792619]

Is there a list of the garbage beamdog added to the "enhanced" edition, so you know what to ignore / who to kill? I've wanted to try BG for a long time now, but my pc and it's setup sucks ass. I figured i could finally play the switch port, but i worry about the crap they added souring the experience.

[Anonymous No.5792631]

>really want to try Berserker/Mage and Kensai/Mage
>autistically incapable of playing anything but elf
feels bad lads

[Anonymous No.5792659]

>>5784579
>no mods

at least make things more fun for yerself m8

[Anonymous No.5792665]

>>5789068
>180k

How I barely make over a single 1k inthe original baldur's gate

[Anonymous No.5792675]

>>5789345
>two weapons fighter

was that a thing added in the "EE"?

[Anonymous No.5792848]

>>5792659
What a peculiar statline. No bonuses whatsoever to any combat stats, but maxed out Intelligence.

[Anonymous No.5793148]

>>5792619
'Disable enhanced edition npcs' mod or play the original versions you lazy fuck

[Anonymous No.5793208]

>>5793148
not op, but can you do that on a switch port? probably not, you should've told him to buckle up and do it on pc

[Anonymous No.5793213]

>>5792619
Beamdog added several companions that attempt to drag you into their quests. Dorn, Neera, Rasaad (BG1 and BG2), Hexxat (BG2 only). They react to other companions, have unique items and a couple of quests each. There is a mod on PC called "Disable Enhanced Edition NPCs" that can either make them not approach you or remove them from the game completely. I use the second option, because they're distracting.

[Anonymous No.5793326]

I have the game on gog, I want to make a separate install to try different settings of scs and tweaks anthology without spending a week installing and uninstalling scs repeatedly, how can I download the game twice or more without uninstalling it?

[Anonymous No.5793331]

>>5793326
Nevermind, I'm retarded, just rename the folder, uninstall, rename the folder back and reinstall in another location

[Anonymous No.5793452]

>>5792665
I was talking Icewind Dale. The Giant Skeletons from the extension dungeon drop a +1 sword that goes for 1k, so I looted a bunch of those before getting bored of the grind. Gotta sell everything all at once though or they will drop in price significantly.

[Anonymous No.5793971]

>>5789251
I eventually got the charm bug off and after a day of residual demotivation, I'm back on track!

>>5792659
Any excuse to post that meme character, huh?

[Anonymous No.5793987]

How is the Beamnog Icewind Dale EE?
Is there as much fuckery with NPCs and such as in Baldur's Gate?

[Anonymous No.5794021]

>>5793987
No, the major change is that it uses BG2 ruleset

[Anonymous No.5794386]

>>5793213
Nice, thanks. I'll save this. If I get a PC soon enough I'll check out the patch. If i end up playing it on Switch I'll just kill them, I guess

[Anonymous No.5794661]

>>5793987
It's my least favourite Beamdog product because BG2 ruleset in IWD makes the entire game so much easier it's not even funny. It's hard to ignore it. Also, no Character Arbitration button, either, so the EE has actually cut a feature.

[Anonymous No.5794728]

Spell revision is trash.
>Unseeing Eye is casts Spell Deflection and Improved Mantle after you use the rod on it
>Cast Secret Word to remove Spell Deflection
>Cast Breach to remove Improved Mantle
>Still can't hit it (attacking with FoA+3)
garbage

[Anonymous No.5794730]

>>5794728

[Anonymous No.5794732]

>>5794730

[Anonymous No.5794941]

I never played Infinity Engine games, where should I start?

[Anonymous No.5794992]

>>5794941
Planescape Torment.

[Anonymous No.5795075]

>>5794661
that's somewhat disappointing. I have a physical copy of the original Baldur's Gate and have the original BG2 on GoG from before they were replaced with the EEs, but I'd never played IWD and the idea of a combat-focused IE game is interesting to me now. (I give much less of a shit about roleplaying and story these days)

[Anonymous No.5795078]

>>5794992
Why?

[Anonymous No.5795114]

>>5795078
Don't listen to this guy. Planescape Torment has the best writing out of Infinity engine games (and some of the best video game writing in general), but it's mechanically inferior to, say, Baldur's Gate 2.

Baldur's Gate 1 starts off slow and is kind of boring, most quests are obvious "do this good thing and people will love you" or "do this bad thing and get rich" stuff. BG2 is more nuanced and offers more interesting encounters, but if you know nothing of the engine you might not make it past the tutorial dungeon. Never played the Icewind Dale games, but I hear they are more combat oriented, and I don't like the combat in Infinity engine games.

Start with BG2 if you don't mind learning the hard way, though it will be confusing for the first couple of hours. Move on to Planescape when you know what you are doing.

[Anonymous No.5795116]

>>5795114
By mechanically inferior I mean fewer playstyles, less combat variety, worse magic system (fucking anime cutscenes every time you cast a higher tier spell), less loot, fewer companions by number and by class. Planescape Torment is not something you play for the gameplay, I'd say

[Anonymous No.5795258]

Who else play BG1 solo ? The companions seem to have interesting quests and personalities but I can't bring myself to use them, because I don't like to manage several characters at the same time.

[Anonymous No.5795260]

>>5795258
>that ui
also playing the game solo is piss easy,companions are fun to use and make the game more difficult,ironically,so I would never play without a full party

[Anonymous No.5795291]

>>5795260
>also playing the game solo is piss easy
until you hit the level cap and suddenly start falling behind entirely in action economy in every single encounter because you stopped progressing, especially since you will be hard-pressed to make a character without at least some weaknesses at some point

[Anonymous No.5795328]

>>5795291
Come on now, how many encounters will actually fit this bill in BG1 even with scs? Maybe 5 in the entire game, and you still have a metric ton of options to close that gap. Not like the game is lacking in items and consumables, experience and leveling are not the only way to increase your character's combat efficiency.

[Anonymous No.5795334]

>>5795328
> how many encounters will actually fit this bill in BG1 even with scs?
Soloing Durlag and, with some builds (ones that lack burst damage), the Werewolf Island.

Items and consumables are, of course, great to have, but having 6 capped out characters that can use them is still a better deal than having one. BG1 XP cap is really low if you're a completionist.

I agree soloing generally brings about a much easier mid-game due to the inflated XP rate, especially if you play something primarily scaling with level like Sorcerer, but you could also run with a small party to reap the best of both worlds.

[Anonymous No.5795714]

What's the most logical Charname for Baldur's Gate? I know about the "canon" character, Abdul or whatever his name was.

Sex: From Imoen's dialogue it's fairly obvious Charname is a male.

Age: An elf, gnome, or a dwarf are out of the question. Half-elf, half-orc, or halfling are possible, but unlikely. Human is the most likely.

Class: Barbarian, just no. Druid or ranger, nope, he spent all his life within the walls. Cleric, wizard... again from the dialogue Charname wasn't too interested in his studies and would skip out of his lessons. Monk, again skipping out of lessons and being generally carefree doesn't seem very lawful or disciplined. Bards need to be well read as well. Paladin, no knightly order in Candlekeep.

That leaves fighter, thief, or sorcerer. Charname starts the game with a quarterstaff. Doesn't seem like something a fighter in training would have. Or a thief. But definitely something a mage or sorcerer would carry.

So in conclusion: Charname is a human male sorcerer. Probably CN.

This is irrefutable.

[Anonymous No.5795796]

>>5795714
>Charname starts the game with a quarterstaff. Doesn't seem like something a fighter in training would have
>Long wooden stick isn't a suitable training weapon

[Anonymous No.5795860]

>>5795796
I seem to recall that in ad&d 2nd edition, a level 1 character had finished training. Thus they were proficient in the use of a weapon. Or could cast a spell without failure. They were ready for adventuring.

[Anonymous No.5795909]

>>5795714

>Charname is a class that didn't even exist in bg1

Heh
Jokes aside though, bhaal was an assassin and his blood inspires his progeny to murder. Charname is probably a thief.

[Anonymous No.5796081]

>>5795258
Anon spoiler that garbage UI for the love of God

[Anonymous No.5796342]

>>5795075
I always thought nerds were supposed to be smart. But every IE thread is full of posts whining as if you can't play the original release of these games anymore, much less legally purchase them for next to nothing.

[Anonymous No.5796547]

>>5795714
>What's the most logical Charname for Baldur's Gate?

Race: For an adult Dwarf, he'd have to be 40. A Gnome would be 60. Elves would be 110. So none of those. Humans, Half-Elves and Halflings are all 20 and under, so they're the only choice that fits the timeframe from the Time of Troubles.

Class: The major classes available in Candlekeep would be Cleric (of Oghma, specifically), Mage, and Bard. These are the studious classes that benefit from books, stories, travelers and the accumulation of stories and knowledge.

Arguments could be made for Fighters (training under Hull and other Watchers or Reevor, Jondalar, Erik, etc.), Thieves (practicing with Imoen, Deder and the few others there).

Never leaving Candlekeep limits the wild professions of Druid or Ranger. And the absence of Knightly Orders or any worshipers of relevant Gods makes Paladinhood unlikely.

Then meme classes like Barbarian, Sorcerer, Wild Mage, etc. weren't available in BG1, so those're out.

Alignment: Candlekeep is overwhelmingly LN, but the Bhaalspawn gravitated toward specific people in the castle. Gorion is LG, Imoen is NG, Tethtoril is LG, Dreppin is NG, Phlydia is CG, etc. That said, Parda is TN, Karan is LN, Firebead is LN, Hull is LN, Winthrop is TN, etc.

So, the majority of his influences are Good and Neutral, with Lawful being the third most common. He would be Neutral Good with a Lawful leaning.

These clearly all lead up to... a NG Half-Elf Bard. Probably proficient in Large Swords and Blunt Weapons like the Watchers, Pickpocketing from Imoen, and spellcasting from Gorion.

[Anonymous No.5796554]

>>5794941
It depends on what you're looking for.

Planescape has the strongest story but the weakest gameplay.

Icewind Dale has the strongest gameplay but the weakest story.

Baldur's Gate is right down the middle. Story almost as good as Planescape, gameplay almost as good as Icewind Dale's.

[Anonymous No.5796559]

>>5796554
I kind of disagree.

Baldur's Gate has better gameplay than Icewind Dale. More options, more variety, more strategy.

Icewind Dale has better graphics than Baldur's Gate, though. Arguably better music, too.

[Anonymous No.5796763]

I know that this isn't strictly about Infinity Engine games, but I figured this thread has the most knowledgeable people. If I liked the wide range of choices and ways to complete quests in Arcanum. What new CRPGs should I take a look at? I'm considering Divinity Original Sin, Pillars and the new Torment. Any other suggestions?

[Anonymous No.5796773]

>>5796763
None of those really fits the bill honestly, though they can be fun nonetheless i guess
Try looking into fallout, vtmb or underrail if you haven't already

[Anonymous No.5796776]

>>5796763
Pillars is like a terrible version of Baldur's Gate crossed with a terrible version of Dragon Age. Avoid.

Divinity OS is reminiscent of an ultima game more than anything.

[Anonymous No.5796796]

>>5796763
Divinity and Torment's turn based really fails to capture the feel. Pillars was made specifically as a homage to the Infinity Engine games. Most people agree that it missed the mark in quality, but fell pretty close. Honestly, I'd recommend Pathfinder: Kingmaker above any of the others for modern games that capture that feel.

[Anonymous No.5796802]

>>5796796
Pillars devs explicitly came out and said they made the game as boring as possible on purpose.

Kingmaker is great.

[Anonymous No.5797280]

Gorion's ward is a F/M/T Half Elf.

[Anonymous No.5797289]

>>5796547
>Race: For an adult Dwarf, he'd have to be 40. A Gnome would be 60. Elves would be 110. So none of those
Nothing says their bodies take this long to develop and there's precedent where a child of this race brought up in a human environment could grow up faster.

[Anonymous No.5797331]

>>5797280
>Gorion's ward is a F/M/T
Convoluted way to say "Bard."

[Anonymous No.5797334]

>>5797289
The core books say it takes that long.

[Anonymous No.5797386]

>>5797334
Ed Greenwood says elves mature physically in 15-20 years, same as humans. Drizzt was already established canon by the time of BG and he escaped the Underdark and lived on his own at 20.

I hear what the Complete Book of Elves and the AD&D PHB says, but I feel like at some point even the authors realized that shitting your diapers for 80 years is just ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.5797412]

>>5797386
>I feel like at some point even the authors realized that shitting your diapers for 80 years is just ridiculous.
I disagree, it makes more sense to have an even maturation level for the races rather than have everyone on humanity's clock until pubescence at 16 then suddenly have actual adulthood shoot out a century or more later. 80 years of pimples and crackly voice breaks makes no more sense than 80 years of being a baby.

[Anonymous No.5797439]

>>5797386
>Drizzt was already established canon by the time of BG and he escaped the Underdark and lived on his own at 20.
Nerd here. He was around 50 when he escaped the Underdark. But he was 16 when he started his training, and was a fully trained fighter three years later at 19.

So either the drow age differently, R.A. Salvatore didn't look up those AD&D age tables, or these tables, or core rules, are absolute bullshit and should be ignored and disregarded. If elves are mature at 110 years old, that means at 20 they should still be wearing diapers. Fuck that.

[Anonymous No.5797443]

>>5797439
>Nerd here. He was around 50 when he escaped the Underdark. But he was 16 when he started his training, and was a fully trained fighter three years later at 19.
Wait, seriously? Because I might be misremembering the first origin story book, but I always thought that between Drizzt graduating and rejecting his sister's invitation to an orgy and the Masoj Hun'ett' / Alton deVir plot it was like... a couple of weeks.

[Anonymous No.5797478]

>>5797443
Well, you're right. The plot in the first book takes only a few days/weeks. And then he leaves Menzoberranzan for good. Maybe you're confusing the drow city with the Underdark, where he stays for another 30 years or so. (the next two books)

[Anonymous No.5797487]

>>5797478
Yeah that's probably it. You're right. Nevertheless, it seems that there's multiple secondary sources (books and games and some geezer's musings) that seem to really defy the notion of how demihumans mature.

[Anonymous No.5797536]

Of every species out there in the real world, humans have the longest infancy and childhood periods. That probably holds true in D&D too. Dwarves, Gnomes, Elves, Halflings, they're all in their adult bodies at six months old, they're just not socially adults until 50/60/110/etc.

[Anonymous No.5797778]

>>5796547
I mostly agree, except Mc as a bard doesn't sound right to me, it's too much of a support role. Fighter or mage, leaning most towards fighter as it's the most generic choice for a party leader.

[Anonymous No.5797810]

>>5797778
Bard are natural party leaders with their Charisma. Fighters are support.

[Anonymous No.5797827]

>>5797810
t. 5th edition baby

charisma skills are the most toxic thing ever added to DnD

[Anonymous No.5797869]

>>5796802
>Pillars devs explicitly came out and said they made the game as boring as possible on purpose.
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.5797882]

>>5796763
Unironically Kingmaker. It's the closest thing to actual BG3 we'll ever get in both mechanics and tone. It doesn't have drow waifus, but nobody's perfect.
And if you want to see how BG3 made by people who absolutely despise Baldur's Gate would turn out, try PoE.

[Anonymous No.5797921]

>>5797882
>closest thing to actual BG3 we'll ever get
anon, I....

[Anonymous No.5797937]

>>5784579
Nice and sweat OP but why not go WEIDU BGT? Best way to play, seamless and customizable af

[Anonymous No.5797946]

>>5797882
>>closest thing to actual BG3 we'll ever get
ahem

[Anonymous No.5797950]

>>5797937
Because if you want actual vanilla BG1 gameplay, then you're obviously not getting it under BG2 rules or the BG2 implementation of the engine.

[Anonymous No.5798292]

>>5797331
Yes, but bards are shit and not nearly as strong as F/M/T. Gorion's ward is canonically strong, thus ruling Bard out of the question.

[Anonymous No.5798360]

>>5797946
Even if you forget that Larian has never done propper rts system, it's still stillborn due to licencing requirements thrown on them by wizards requiring tie in to their latest shitty mad max style Baldur's Gate campaign.

[Anonymous No.5798372]

>>5797827
What are these, I never got into 5th,
is 5th designed so that you can't make a shit useless, character?

[Anonymous No.5798374]

>>5797869
It checks out though. PoE is a forgettable snoozefest.

[Anonymous No.5798380]

>>5797882
Id have liked to see if the kingdom mgmt was less involved, e.g. not tied to time intervals so you could just drop in when you were bored, instead of having to come back every x days to deal with admin. Adventuring with your party is where it's at.

[Anonymous No.5798847]

>>5797827
>Leadership being drawn from Charisma is from the 5th edition!

brainlesswojak.png

[Anonymous No.5799043]

>>5797921
>>5797946
Yes, I know that BG3 is a thing. I still maintain that Kingmaker will be closer to BG spirit than BG3.
If anything, Baldur's Gate 3 is shaping up to be what Fallout 3 was to FO1/2. I am not getting my hopes up whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.5799221]

>>5797950
But if IIRC, with WEIDU you can keep both the vanilla graphics and gameplay; haven't been toying with it in an age, so I might be wrong.

>>5798360
I honestly hope that WotC won't choke them to death. I'm not a fan of divinity series but I can see when a developer is honestly passionate about cRPGs even when the thig they are doing is not exactly my thing. So I do have some hope that Larian will do BG justice.

>>5799043
True, Kingmaker is THE game of the decade as far as the top-down isometric cRPGs are concerned. But the thing is, Larian is very responsive to the wishes of their fans and listens to their feedback and has good communication with people that love and play their games. I hope they will do the same as far as BG crowd goes and that they will take a lesson or two from the Kingmaker. Not getting hyped up but not gonna be hopeless either.

[Anonymous No.5799224]

>>5797950
But if IIRC, with WEIDU you can keep both the vanilla graphics and gameplay; haven't been toying with it in an age, so I might be wrong.

>>5798360
I honestly hope that WotC won't choke them to death. I'm not a fan of divinity series but I can see when a developer is honestly passionate about cRPGs even when the thig they are doing is not exactly my thing. So I do have some hope that Larian will do BG justice.

>>5799043
True, Kingmaker is THE game of the decade as far as the top-down isometric cRPGs are concerned. But the thing is, Larian is very responsive to the wishes of their fans and listens to their feedback and has good communication with people that love and play their games. I hope they will do the same as far as BG crowd goes and that they will take a lesson or two from the Kingmaker. Not getting hyped up but not gonna be hopeless either.

[Anonymous No.5799359]

>>5799224
I don't know, I've been hearing very concerning things about BG3 and Larian's decisions so far.

First, it's 5E. Which means the date is around 1492 DR which puts it well over a century past the events of the first games. This means there should be almost no connection (raising the question as to why call it Baldur's Gate III instead of some new franchise, like Baldur's Gate: Mind Flayer the way Dark Alliance did?) and also that most connections are going to be pretty thin reaches. People are going to want to see fan favorites since its a sequel, but Viconia's story was already written. Including her means saying fuck you to the original stories we had. Plus, there's all the garbage that the Spellplague and subsequent retcons peppered everywhere. I get that WotC wants to push 5E as hard as they can, but anyone who gave two fucks about setting lore jumped ship at 4E.

Along that thread, it's being sold as a companion piece to Descent into Avernus. Which means if you want to know what the fuck is going on, go buy their adventure module. Otherwise, fuck off and piece together whatever you can.

Next, Larian constantly talking about disliking dice rolls and having characters miss, and how they want to change the attacking system so blows always land. Mix that with their unwillingness to come out and say if it's RTwP or Turn Based, and it sounds like the gameplay has a big red exclamation mark next to it.

[Anonymous No.5799440]

>>5799359
Well Black Hound was initially also supposed to have zero connection with the existing games, the plot was concluded in Throne of Bhaal and they (Black Isle) wanted to leave it at that, but I catch your drift. If they are going to start an entierly new thing, then there is no reason for the "III" in the name, unless there will be a tangible link with previous games which this strongly implies. I would be happy to see it if executed correctly but I really don't know how it can be done though. Maybe Bhaal will intervene and "unmurder" some of the companions to get the crew back for some reason? Or your PC that achieved apotheosis is now the big bad that your character has to deal with and that draws in all sorts of memories, living and dead? Guy that wrote the companion module you mentioned - "Descent into Avernus" - also wrote many others, including "Curse of Strahd"; I didn't play it myself but /tg/ often mentions it as an ok to good module so there is some hope for the story and it will be available as pdf faster than you can spell Elminster. It also seems that he has a boner for Baldur's Gate - pic related is him preparing to cosplay as Bhall at PAX 2013 - so that is something I guess. I just hope that from all of the choking requrments WotC will press on Larian, they will strees that Larian will have to follow the ruleset to the letter so they won't be able to fuck up the gameplay all that much. And of course, there is always - Chris Avellone. He had nice cooperation with Larian so far and I bet they will announce any day now that he is joining the team. All in all, I have hopes for the game, not to high but still hopeful. After the fiasco that PoE was and various other titles from Tyranny to Numenera, after the appearance of Kingmaker I like to believe that we are slowly entering a new golden age for cRPGs.

[Anonymous No.5799518]

>>5799440
I really hope you're right, anon. I haven't reached those /v/ levels where I'm certain that everything upcoming is garbage and will always be garbage. I actually really want this game to be good.

But you're also very correct about PoE, Tyranny, Torment, etc. We've been burned before.

[Anonymous No.5799564]

>>5799440
>>5799518

Why Tyranny and PoE are so loathed? I mean, maybe they aren't masterpieces but they are a lot better than Dragon Age shit and most of the stuff from last years.

[Anonymous No.5799654]

>>5799564
Loathed is a strong word. Most of them were heralded as the spiritual successors to the BG games, and they were all underwhelming and failed to capture that je ne sais quoi that no one quite got correct until Kingmaker.

[Anonymous No.5799661]

>>5799654
Truth is they have stuff Baldur's Gate didn't have, like more non-combat options, less linear structure, action-consequence, more elaborated companions (Tyranny is more like Torment in that particular). They are closer to a Black Isle game than to a Bioware game, and that's usually a good thing.
Problem is the combat isn't even close, but well, Arcanum combat was a turd and it's still a great game.

[Anonymous No.5799667]

Which NPC is the best in the Baldur's Gate series, and why is it Saemon Havarian?

[Anonymous No.5799824]

>>5799359

>Next, Larian constantly talking about disliking dice rolls and having characters miss, and how they want to change the attacking system so blows always land. Mix that with their unwillingness to come out and say if it's RTwP or Turn Based, and it sounds like the gameplay has a big red exclamation mark next to it.

This I'm certain is /v/ making shit up. I've watched a 30 minute interview with the head of larian, and literally nowhere was this mentioned. They just said
"Well it'll be 5e basically, though we have to remove the stuff that doesn't work in the game engine. And we'll be adding some environment interaction mechanics"

[Anonymous No.5799862]

>>5799654
For me PoE was simply boring. For a game that placed so much accent on "meaning" and "soul" it came out pretty meaningless and soulless. Overburdened by text dumps and seemingly disconnected world feel and atmosphere, combat "balanced" to the point of automation and shallow characters and out-of-place lore...fantasy colony/frontier simulator that could've been great, but turned mediocre at best - which is a grand failure for a game that had so much invested in it. 2nd game I didn't even have an urge to play, so on that I cannot comment. However I did loathe Tyranny though. Apart from it being an rpg-lite in every regard it also did an instant 180 on it's premise the moment chapter 1 ends. What was the point of pretending to be an evil simulator if you're just going to back out on it right from the start? And the sour and bland taste these two games left, pushed them into irredemable garbage section. Numenera ended up even below that is not even worth a mention. So thank GOD for Kingmaker and I hope Larian takes valuable lessons from all these games and makes BG3 into something at least worth a mention.

[Anonymous No.5799880]

>>5799661
>Problem is the combat isn't even close, but well, Arcanum combat was a turd and it's still a great game.
I don't think I ever seen an RPG with combat I truly enjoyed, at least Arcanum was fast-pased enough to not frustrate me, while also serving as a benchmark for my character's progress.

[Anonymous No.5799898]

>>5799862
Obsidian has made 1 good game ever; Fallout NV. I honestly don't know how they did it, either, because every other one of their games seems to be made by people who don't understand anything about the genre.

[Anonymous No.5799907]

>>5799898
While different South Park was pretty good, and Mask of the Betrayer was great. It's not like they have done that much. Maybe they do flawed games but compared to Bethesda or Bioware they are the good guys.

[Anonymous No.5799958]

>>5799880
>I CAST HARM HARM HARM HARM HARM HARM *SWINGS SWORD* *CRITICAL MISS* *WEAPON DESTROYED* *ARMOR DAMAGED* *KNOCKED DOWN* "Are you BLIND?!? I mean, better luck next time!" *SCARRED* "COMBAT ENDS* *KO DUE TO FATIGUE LOSS* *A* *A* *A*
Best rpg combat system ever

[Anonymous No.5799961]

>>5799898
I think it was different before. I mean, in the 15+ years obsidian has been making games a lot of people came and went from this studio. One of the reasons why their quality has such high variance, from KOTOR to PoE. They will get better once Sawyer fucks off.

[Anonymous No.5800217]

>>5799667
YOU HAVE BROUGHT ME TO THE BRINK OF MADNESS, SAEMON HAVARIAN

[Anonymous No.5800407]

>>5799898
Kotor 2 was fucking amazing.

[Anonymous No.5800985]

>>5793971
Update: All of the non-TotSC content is cleared with all the zones visited, so it's off to the Cloakwood next!

[Anonymous No.5801052]

>>5799862
Deadfire is actually even worse. The companions are even more shallow and unimaginative and those who aren't (Ydwin) are not given any content, the plot is pretty much non-existant and the writing takes a nosedive.
Obsidian learned all the wrong lessins from PoE 1, the narrative budget was significantly reduced and Sawyer decided to turn PoE into New Vegas-lite, because that game was succesful. And none of it worked in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.5801136]

>>5799564
Dragon Age Origins is great.

[Anonymous No.5801249]

>Spellhold studio down again
I swear they do it every time I reinstall the game

[Anonymous No.5801250]

>>5801249
just go to g3

[Anonymous No.5801343]

>>5801250
Do they have rogue rebalancing?

[Anonymous No.5801386]

>>5796802
>>5797869
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvyrEhAMUPo

[Anonymous No.5801393]

>>5799359
>Next, Larian constantly talking about disliking dice rolls and having characters miss, and how they want to change the attacking system so blows always land.
If their previous games are any reference, attacks DO have a chance to miss in the Original Sin games and there's a plethora of randomly generated "5% on hit to apply X" stuff.

[Anonymous No.5801401]

>>5801393
>there's a plethora of randomly generated "5% on hit to apply X" stuff.
Disgusting

[Anonymous No.5801467]

>>5801393
For once the overprotective stance that WotC takes when giving off their IP will bear fruit, hopefully. Also, think about it for a second: of all the big gaming studios out there, Obsidian, Bioware, Ubisoft, big names in cRPGs too, they chose Larian. That fact alone gives me hope. As an unrelated rant, I'm just sad that the transition from 4ed to 5ed happened so fast that we probably will never have a chance to see another Dark Sun game.

[Anonymous No.5801481]

>>5801052
Just wow. As much as I hate nu-obsidian, I never thought of them as this much retarded. Sawyer is so blinded by his pride and arrogance. Did they finish that turn-based mode there was talk about or it ended as another april fool's joke?

[Anonymous No.5801564]

>>5801481
>Did they finish that turn-based mode there was talk about
Yes, also don't trust waifufag blindly

[Anonymous No.5801642]

>>5801136
Correct. All other dragon age games are trash tho

[Anonymous No.5801659]

>>5801393
One thing that makes Baldur's Gate much better than other D&D games is that the real time nature, combined with 2e not even having that rule aside from attacks, negates the effect of "5% always fails/succeeds". There's simply no cases where luck is a deciding factor.

[Anonymous No.5801664]

>>5791262
TOEE had such a good combat system.

Wish they had done more with it.

[Anonymous No.5801671]

>>5799862
PoE did one thing that stayed with me, a few times in the game a villain would confidently opt to take on your whole team by themself. But instead of an epic baldurs gate "it's your funeral" style battle it's literally like a 6 on 1 curb stomping irl.

[Anonymous No.5801674]

>>5799958
Fuck Virgil. What a turbo cuck.

[Anonymous No.5801676]

>>5799667
It's clearly noober.
Heya. Heya. Heya. Heya

[Anonymous No.5801678]

>>5801674
Blood and ashes! Take that back you filthy gnome! Virgil is the best and most wholesome npc ever to grace cRPGs!

[Anonymous No.5801771]

>>5801564
...Yeah, because Xoti and Pallegina were such memorable and riveting characters. Not to mention the boring-as-fuck plot that can be at best described "The DM is playing with himself". The Watcher is not even the main character in his own game and serves no puprose in the narrative. His only job is to follow Eothas and witness how great and awesome he is. He doesn't even get a say in final confrontation. He can only choose how to make the world suck a bit less after Deadfire's climax - because you can't stop Eothas no matter what.

[Anonymous No.5801775]

>>5801136
It is kind of disappointing because it could have been the beginning of a great new series. The gameplay was rock solid. It just needed better class balance (this is an actual game with caster supremacy, casters are literally the best at every role, except for tanking on Nightmare difficulty -they are fine at that on other difficulties), and work on the artstyle which is pretty ugly.

[Anonymous No.5801776]

>>5796559
>Arguably better music, too.
Arguably, yes. There's like 4 minutes of the soundtrack that's in any way pleasant to listen to, the rest of it is just miserable. It fits the mood and the setting so you can say that's a plus, but at the end of the day I still want to play something that doesn't make me suicidal.

[Anonymous No.5801805]

>>5799359
Setting the campaign a century or so after would be the right decision regardless. CHARname is either a God, or completely dead/retired at the end the of ToB so that story is done, and all the major NPCs got epilogues on top of this. The compelling tie-in would in what the ripple effects of removing/replacing Bhaal would be for everyone that didn't ascend and/or retire.

[Anonymous No.5801815]

>>5800407
kotor 2 is shit unless you're some kind of star wars retard

[Anonymous No.5801849]

>>5801815
You need to mod back in the missing content.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=485537937

[Anonymous No.5801997]

>>5801849

How much missing content is that?

[Anonymous No.5802039]

>>5801343
No.
>>5801997
Read the changelog, but it's quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.5802423]

>>5801997
A lot. At least A whole planet worth.

[Anonymous No.5802526]

>>5801343

Why would you need to buff rogues? The class is fine.

>>5801674

>talking shit bout my nigga Virgil

Full half-orc

[Anonymous No.5802678]

>>5802526
Rogue Rebalancing is less a buff mod and more of a "bring the class closer to P&P", because it gives a few more flavorful options but also nerfs the Spike Trap cheese. Single-class Thieves tend to be sorta jack-of-all-tradesy and heavily reliant on the impact of their HLAs, that's all.

[Anonymous No.5804219]

>>5802678

Oh, so it's more of a nerf then? What do they change?