/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5784371]

Will new CRTs ever be produced?

[Anonymous No.5784373]

They still make new ones in China and India but they're bottom of the barrel quality. Since what you really mean is will they make new Wegas again, I would argue no.

[Anonymous No.5784374]

>>5784371
Nope.

[Anonymous No.5784376]

If it happens, it won't be cheap nor mass produced. You're talking about a century old technology that was highly competitive (everyone had at least one in their house) in which the big tech companies would bang their heads against the wall trying to drive costs of a very heavy and complex device. The amount of circuitry in those things is fucking ridiculous.
The golden age of crt technology is over and there's no tech community to pass the torch to, no similar adjacent device that kind of uses the same tech. Everything about it just fizzled out. It was too beautiful for this world

[Anonymous No.5784383]

There will inevitably be some a crowd funded PVM that crashes and burns horribly

[Anonymous No.5784389]

You could probably make new monochrome tubes in your garage, they're pretty simple. Color ones, no way.

[Anonymous No.5784395]

>>5784376
The most expensive part of CRTs was shipping. Second was the glass parts.

Nothing about it is much more expensive than current lcd/oled tech. The actual glass panels, like OLED, are super expensive just like CRT.

>>5784371
No. When you become slightly more social, you will realize CRTs are a massive waste. We are currently fucking the earth with a heat death and CRTs would only increase that issue. Not only that but the best CRTs around are still lacking in so many areas that current displays have replaced, there just isn't a reason to consider them.

[Anonymous No.5784406]

And the award for most retarded post of the day goes to... >>5784395

[Anonymous No.5784409]

>>5784395
>Not only that but the best CRTs around are still lacking in so many areas that
That's not fair though because nothing new has been invested in CRT technology since Bush's first term.

[Anonymous No.5784410]

>>5784406
I know, you are upset by facts. Sorry kiddo, this is life. CRT is gone and won't come back. At least I have mine already and don't have to pay shill pricing.

[Anonymous No.5784413]

You could also rebuild tubes, although there's not much you can do about shot phosphor, at least not on color tubes.

[Anonymous No.5784417]

>>5784409
Nothing new could be invested. The technology was limited by literally everything. If the tech could be expanded upon and done more with (better color accuracy and larger displays) it would have happened.

Everyone here should be in /crt/. This thread is a waste of space with cumbrains all around like >>5784406

[Anonymous No.5784418]

>>5784410
Why don't you go pull some more """facts""" straight out of your ass?

[Anonymous No.5784425]

>>5784376
The circuitry is literally no problem at all. All the components are still made, you just need to design a new board and put the parts together.

No, the only hard bit is the tube itself. Even then, monochrome tubes arent that hard. Tube radio fags have a guy that started making new tubes after only a year or so to get off the ground.

I think monochrome tubes would have about the same lead time and trouble. Full color seems hopeless to me though.

[Anonymous No.5784434]

>>5784417
Jesus christ, you are retarded. Of course the technology could be improved further.
>cumbrains
Ah, that explains. Fuck off, underage retard.

[Anonymous No.5784441]

>>5784434
I mean, shit, we've been using internal combustion gasoline engines for 120 years.

[Anonymous No.5784448]

>>5784425
A monochrome CRT has just a flat face with a phosphor coating. You could make a tube yourself with glass blowing equipment and apply the phosphor to the face.

Color tubes on the other hand have many thousands of tiny phosphor dots as well as a shadow mask with thousands of tiny holes. Now tell me how anyone can do that in his garage.

[Anonymous No.5784452]

>>5784425
>Full color seems hopeless to me though.
You could always go for the old CRT projector design with three tubes (one for each color). More efficient than a single-tube color CRT too.

[Anonymous No.5784454]

>>5784373
Which WEGA is the best WEGA to buy?

[Anonymous No.5784457]

>>5784417
>>5784434
Yes it very much could have still been improved if companies didn't instead take the cheap, lazy route of TFT panels.

[Anonymous No.5784471]

>>5784371
Just like they're now reproducing retro consoles after a 20 year hiatus, give it a few years before they figure out there's a market for CRTs and some niche companies start producing them on a larger scale again. Especially as the current gaming industry gets more and more shitty, the market for everything related to retro gaming gets bigger and bigger.

[Anonymous No.5784481]

>>5784471
>Another member of the retard club chimes in
Great to have you!

[Anonymous No.5784491]

>>5784371
No. MicroLED will make them 100% obsolete first (only display tech that can match CRT performance with no compromises).

[Anonymous No.5784515]

>>5784491
Ah, if it isn't the retarded MicroLED shill again.

[Anonymous No.5784537]

>>5784434
I would love to know what changes could be made. They had 40 years to make a better trinitron and didn't. Want to guess why, cumbrain?

[Anonymous No.5784542]

>>5784491
What exactly is the OLED compromise again? Not a single thing about my QLED or OLED in my home are worse than a crt except being native 240p capable and actually near 0ms delay (compared to 12 and 14ms... lol laughably low times)

[Anonymous No.5784551]

>>5784537
>I would love to know what changes could be made
Better geometry by better (100% digital) control of the beam.
>Want to guess why
Because by the time semiconductor tech had advanced enough to make it practical the CRT market was already dying.

[Anonymous No.5784558]

>>5784537
>Want to guess why
I certainly don't, so why don't you entertain us with the intricacies and limitations of CRT production and technology?

[Anonymous No.5784561]

>>5784551
That shit was already there in the 90's. You this new to CRT? Apple had a scanning chip for geometry and color in the studio displays.

There has been no tech advancement that would benefit CRT. Stop mouth breathing and sage this half baked /crt/ waste of space.

[Anonymous No.5784573]

>>5784561
What was it like being a CRT engineer? I mean, you would know, right?

[Anonymous No.5785989]

>>5784573
What's it like being banned for shitposting? I mean, you would know, right?

[Anonymous No.5785998]

Sony basically gave up on new CRT tech in 2005 - 2006. It took years for alternatives to catch up to the quality of the XBR Trinitrons with Super Fine Pitch tubes.

[Anonymous No.5786010]

I think a company will eventually design 15 MHz CRTs for emulation

[Funcoland Clown No.5786013]

Let me tell you guys a story. When I wear my /ck/ hat one of the things I do is make espresso. I'm budget conscious so I use a simple old school prosumer Gaggia boiler that they've been making since like 1985 and they're still making.

But the grind is really important to making good espresso too and a good grinder can cost just as much as a boiler! So I use this literally 110 year old hand cranked coffee mill.

That coffee mill is like a CRT of the previous century. The kind of technology that was EVERYWHERE and even though maybe 99% of them are gone there's so little DEMAND for them, especially in "for use" condition (versus antique suitable for display) that it's not expensive to own and use one. That's how CRTs are going to be for the whole rest of probably even my kids' lives.

[Anonymous No.5786019]

>>5784542
Burn-in (which is an important factor for retro-gamers, a lot of old games have relatively static and high-contrast elements), limited brightness, and organic degradation. Microled won't have those issues, and I expect it will achieve better colours & blacks as well due to how small the pixels are (as QLED does). QLEDS are backlit, so their blacks won't ever be as good as the best OLEDs & microleds.

[Anonymous No.5786031]

Holy shit the absolute retards on this board don't know that CRTs are still being made.

[Funcoland Clown No.5786043]

>>5786031
Just out of curiosity what are the factories manufacturing new tubes? I think there are a staggering number of surplus tubes that these rinky dink Chinese outfits are slapping very low quality pcbs onto and unloading still.

[Anonymous No.5786053]

>>5784373
I am trying to look in AliExpress and there is nothing.

[Anonymous No.5786058]

>>5786053
>>5786031
>>5784373
This is a mystery that may never be solved.

[Anonymous No.5786068]

>>5786013
>110 year old hand cranked coffee mill
This works just as good. Just say you're a hipster, man.

[Anonymous No.5786069]

>>5785998
>It took years for alternatives to catch up to the quality of the XBR Trinitrons with Super Fine Pitch tubes.

Still waiting, myself.

[Anonymous No.5786074]

>>5786013
My Grinta grinder, which you can't afford, rapes your hand grinder. I've tried every grinder you know of and then some. The Monolith Titan. Lidos. The Jolly. I've spent thousands of dollars on grinders. The nicest modern electric grinder results in a better final taste than old grinders determined by blind taste testing. But you got that cool old one on eBay, and you want to brag about it. You are the definition of a collectorfag. You haven't done any objective research. You're religious about things, going by your "feelings" and enjoying bragging to other people about your "life" under a cute nickname.
>Let me tell you guys a story.
>Let me tell you guys a story
>Let me tell you guys a story
Can you actually just shut the fuck up?

[Anonymous No.5786089]

>>5786013
>The kind of technology that was EVERYWHERE and even though maybe 99% of them are gone there's so little DEMAND for them

This reminds me of high quality pencil sharpeners. Some time in the 80s the demand for these 200 dollar mechanical masterpieces of perfect pencil shaving perfection dwindled to nothing. These "made in West Germany/Japan" sharpeners were forced out of the market by the cheap 20 dollar Chinese knockoffs that do a much better job than a hand crank sharpener so why bother with the super amazing model? Now people trade them for hundreds on ebay but there will never be enough demand to open a factory for them.

[Anonymous No.5786157]

>>5784371
No, there are already technologies that are better than CRTs they just never caught on. In 2007 there were 240HZ FEDs. They work the same way CRTs do, except they use multiple tiny cathode-ray tubes. The technology was essentially an improvement on CRTs and even more energy efficient than LCDs, but there were lots of manufacturing issues. Once LCDs started their domination, it just wasn't viable to invest more in research. The financial crisis and patent fuckery was another nail driven into the FED technology.
Here's an old video, showing a FED at an event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML2Cik7-7ic
There were also SEDs which are a derivative of FEDs, and primarily intended to fix some manufacturing issues while sacrificing a bit of quality.

In 2006 Canon showed a SED prototype:
55
1080p
??less than 1ms response time
50,000:1 contrast ratio
450 nits
large viewing angles

According to them, the consumer model would reach:
100000:1 contrast rato
0.2 response time ?(Wikipedia, probably false. The source provided for this claim doesn't even talk about response time. And FEDs generally have better or similar response times to CRTs )
This was SED in 2006. Now, it is virtually dead.
Furthermore, FEDs are lighter and require less energy than LCDs.
(cont)

[Anonymous No.5786167]

>>5786157
Another alternative to LCDs are laser based display. At the core, the tech is more similar to CRTs than to LCDs. An example of a laser based display technology is LPD.
The issue of the tech is that the screens are heavy and that they aren't as thin as LCDs. But the technology isn't dead, Prysm (an American company) is still developing and building LDP screens. First they were manufacturing only small panels for the creation of video walls. But last year Prysm released their first proper LPD screens, a 135and a 190 LPD touch screen intended for /biz/ and educational usage. This isn't really relevant for gaming, but at least there's still potential that the tech can expand into other sectors.
Besides Prysm there are some companies that produce laser projectors which could theoretically with additional R&D move into the laser display market. But that's just me being deluded, no sane tech company is going to arrive at the conclusion that normal consumers want quality products after seeing how consumers behaved over the last decade.

[Anonymous No.5786192]

>>5786074
>I've tried every grindr you know
I bet you have.

[Anonymous No.5786224]

>>5786089
3d print maybe

[Anonymous No.5786227]

>>5786043
Chinese like you said. They're not good tubes but the point is just lol people who think companies can't manufacture a clone of the best Sony tube TV that ever came out again in the future if there's enough interest, sorry to you hoarders.

[Anonymous No.5786235]

>>5786089
Kum brand pencil sharpener are the best, and they're only a few dollars. I've never used a Chinese sharpener anywhere close to as good.

[Funcoland Clown No.5786250]

>>5786074
Wow you obviously missed the point of my story. In 100 years most people will have your attitude about their futuristic Jetsons-tvs which is why the relatively few remaining CRTs will still be fairly affordable for enthusiasts who for whatever reason might be inclined to continue using them.

As far as my coffee mill goes I'm just budget conscious. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on grinders but it's cute that you feel threatened enough by my $25 banged up crystal-less Arcade No 1 to have such a reaction to it. It's not like it's gonna get you any more pussy than mine gets me.

>>5786068
Percolators make a different kind of coffee

>>5786089
Yes, just like that - and I bet it's also possible to go out and chase down "for use" examples of the premium kind of sharpeners at much lower prices. I actually just today bought three brand new Japanese mechanical produce scales at Goodwill that hit the floor for $5 each and I hope to resell for ~$100 each or maybe find an interesting trade.

[Anonymous No.5786273]

>>5784371
>>5784374
>>5784383
Imagine someone making a "fake" CRT with an OLED display behind a curved lenticular lens or something.
The main thing I think keeping people from making full-on CRTs is how heavy they are. Distribution would be a NIGHTMARE

[Anonymous No.5786283]

>>5784395
>Not only that but the best CRTs around are still lacking in so many areas that current displays have replaced

Like what? If someone made a 2019 CRT that ran at 144Hz and was capable of 4K then you wouldn't have an argument at all, and the fact that modern displays have SOME advantage over displays that stopped manufacture over a decade ago but still fail in the majority of comparisons is pretty telling.

>>5786074

You sound like a guy with a million times as much money as sense.

>>5786227

Nobody has ever said CRTs can't be physically manufactured today. It's that they won't. Junk brand CRTs do not count. The precision of manufacturing goes up generally over time and expecting a basic CRT in 2019 to at least match the quality of a basic CRT in 2006 is very reasonable.

[Anonymous No.5786289]

>>5784395
>We are currently fucking the earth with a heat death and CRTs would only increase that issue.
This is a "but starving children in Africa" argument. We shouldn't be doing a lot of things we're currently doing but I'm not going to give up any of the shit I do and most people aren't willing to either. Cost and logistics are valid arguments for whether CRTs will come back, but "think about the environment" isn't one unless they're so bad that they're made illegal (at which point it's not an environmental problem but a legal one holding them back).

[Anonymous No.5786291]

my dad's friend can make them in his shop

[Anonymous No.5786367]

>>5784395
>>5786289
The main polluters of the environment are China and India due to the bad safety standards they have at their factories.

[Anonymous No.5786368]

>>5786291
My dad says your dad is a liar.

[Anonymous No.5786375]

>>5786368
My dad fucked your dad so his opinion supersedes yours.

[Anonymous No.5786448]

>>5786013
0/anything
Try harder reddittot

[Anonymous No.5786454]

>>5786367

It has nothing to do with safety standards, it has to do with low labor costs and wasteful (not financially wasteful) production standards being used to overcome trade barriers.

[Anonymous No.5786470]

>>5786289
How does it feel having no morals?

[Anonymous No.5786494]

>>5784371
Yes, there is enough demand now and making a CRT is very easy.
>>5784373
They do not. What is available is new old stock.
Bottom of the barrel quality is still okay. It's hard to screw up a CRT. Making HD CRTs is a simple matter. Remember that computer monitors were made in the millions and they are HD CRTs.
>>5784376
It'll be cheap enough. Again, CRTs are very mature technology that require no exotic materials to manufacture. I wouldn't expect over $300 for a new CRT.
>>5784413
There are more than enough new old stock tubes sitting around in china and india to supply the retro trade for decades. The idea of "shot phosphor" is not really an issue. CRTs need hundreds of thousands of hours of usage to have noticeable degrading of the phosphor surface and the vast (talking 99%) majority of used CRTs have no such issue.
>>5784417
CRTs have high refresh rates, support 10-bit color and could be designed to have HDR-like capability. A 34" 1080p CRT TV could be manufactured using existing ideas. It is possible that could even be pushed to 2160i but the size of display needed for that resolution to be worth it is prohibitive. A 40" 1080p 120hz 10-bit HDR CRT sounds like a dream to me. CRT tech would need to advance for that to be reachable, but I think it can be done.
>>5784425
Full color is doable at the pro hobbyist level. Just a matter of putting your nose to the grindstone and research it and doing it.
>>5784448
>Now tell me how anyone can do that in his garage.
A laser.
>>5784491
Maybe.
>>5786157
It's not about the technological advancement. People love CRTs. Even within the CRT community there are those who shun certain units for being too advanced.
>>5786227
I've seen RGB running on one of those cheap chinese tubes in the form of a 19" Pentranic arcade monitor and it was basically already just as good as any PVM I've seen. Just didn't have the AG scanlines. I can't imagine anyone ever complaining about the image from one of those tubes.

[Anonymous No.5786503]

>>5786494
Ohhh, so that's why no one is doing it. Gotcha.

[Anonymous No.5786504]

I fucking love analog technology guys. All I have are two 14" PVMs, one of which is pretty worn, and some 20" composite-only piece of shit I'm setting aside for the day I hopefully acquire the skills to RGB mod it. Despite my slow progress with being able to service these things I'm obsessed with them, how do I stockpile CRTs and knowledge enough to last me a lifetime of retro greed?

[Anonymous No.5786523]

>>5784395
>We are currently fucking the earth with a heat death
oh, don't worry pal, we'll all kill each other long before that becomes a problem
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/02/politics/nuclear-treaty-inf-us-withdraws-russia/index.html

>>5786470
petty damn good, thanks for asking

[Anonymous No.5786548]

>>5786523
>petty damn good, thanks for asking
Don't say that. However I agree that an individual shouldn't have to worry about what they're doing to the environment. If you're appreciably damaging the environment make it illegal - simple. Such as how you can't just burn all your rubbish in most civilized countries today. Capitalism ideology has it that people have an inherent greedy streak - yeah, so let's protect the environment by law.

[Anonymous No.5786570]

>>5784371
No. Too much lead.

[Anonymous No.5786712]

>>5786494
>maybe if i reply to the entire thread ill sound credible
lol. no

[Anonymous No.5786721]

>>5784481
Quality post and argument from a very high quality faggot

[Anonymous No.5786802]

>>5786494
>They do not. What is available is new old stock.
Proofs?

[Anonymous No.5786806]

>>5786494
>The idea of "shot phosphor" is not really an issue
I had at least two PC monitors in my time with burn-in/degraded phosphor. It may be less of an issue on TVs but with computer displays it very much is due to the bright, high contrast, static images being displayed.

[Anonymous No.5786967]

No.

That tech is gone forever.

[Anonymous No.5786989]

>>5784371
Maybe one day like vynil

[Anonymous No.5787027]

>>5786802
I can't prove or disprove it, it's just a feeling I have.

[Anonymous No.5787031]

>>5786967
>>5784373
Who is right? I'm confus.

[Anonymous No.5787037]

>>5784448
There's also the electron guns. I don't recall what they're coated with but it's probably something that will give you a fatal tumor.

[Anonymous No.5787041]

>>5784448
In the very early years of TVs in the 40s-early 50s, CRTs were blown by hand. By 1952 they'd switched to machine blowing which allowed much higher output and better glass without bubbles and other flaws in it.

[Anonymous No.5787142]

>>5786053
>>5786058
>>5787031
Not that anon, but I know what he's talking about. They're mostly made from recycled tubes and sold in South Asia where CRTs are still widely used. I can't find the website for the distributor, but here's a video of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HovUBEvlpAQ

[Anonymous No.5787145]

>>5786806
>but with computer displays it very much is due to the bright, high contrast, static images being displayed.
I for one am ready to enter the Screensaver Renaissance.

[Anonymous No.5787367]

>>5786167
youtube.com/watch?v=yG1AmHwa_8A

[Anonymous No.5787581]

>>5786806
And I have seen three with burn-in out of thousands I've been around in my life. It's just not an issue. There are enough left to not worry about it.

[Anonymous No.5787668]

>>5784371
I'd love to see a 4K modern CRT

[Anonymous No.5787797]

>>5784371
yeah, the same day 6th gen will be allowed here.

[Funcoland Clown No.5787892]

>>5786448
Surely you at least can appreciate my subtle
>>5786250
>have sex

[Anonymous No.5787907]

>>5784491
That what I believe too.

I'm learning to program, I'm thinking about creating a Github open source project to simulate old CRTs through post-processing. That with microLEDs will turn any CRT obsolete.

The main problem, I guess, is that the current colors gamut stand doesn't cover the NTSC standard.

[Anonymous No.5787951]

>>5787892
Uhh, a moka pot isn't a percolator fuckface.
>"A coffee percolator is a type of pot used for the brewing of coffee by continually cycling the boiling or nearly boiling brew through the grounds using gravity until the required strength is reached."
Moka pots do not cycle water, you must actually be a hipster.

[Anonymous No.5787959]

>>5786250
>>5787892
Uhh, a moka pot isn't a percolator fuckface.
>"A coffee percolator is a type of pot used for the brewing of coffee by continually cycling the boiling or nearly boiling brew through the grounds using gravity until the required strength is reached."
Moka pots do not cycle water, you must actually be a hipster.

[Anonymous No.5788004]

>>5787142
And what about shielding? Soviet tvs were notorious for going on fire/exploding.

[Anonymous No.5788068]

>>5787668
The size of screen necessary for 4k to be worth displaying is prohibitively large for CRT usage. A 50" CRT would be absolutely colossal and would risk damaging the floor of some houses.

4k CRT usage would only be feasible in the way of CRT projectors. The CRT tube for them would need to be enormous, bigger than the 9" of the last generation units. But it could be done.

In theory, one could buy 4 CRT projectors on the used market right now, build a rig to mount them and blend the images to create a 4k image. But it would be a hack and have all kinds of artifacts in the image from different settings and geometry, as well as poor corner focus so the middle of the image would be less sharp than the outer regions. If I had a literal barn to fuck around in I would try this.

[Anonymous No.5788163]

So here's a question I've had about current available crt's that will sound dumb as fuck but hopefully someone out there has the knowledge to explain why some of these things aren't feasible:

Most tv displays pre 2002 are limited to 15khz or so and most computer monitors were limited to 31 and up, why can't it be possible to drive a 31khz lower and a 15khz higher? The 31khz part is what keeps the display from doing interlaced 480/240p?

Especially with most pvm/bvm/clones having between 600-800 lines it should be trivial for the gun to fill the lines to for output 480p and up on 14-20" models.

Why was plastic never used? I'm sure sony at some point looked into it for weight and possible space saving but anyone have anything

[Anonymous No.5788174]

>>5788163
>why can't it be possible to drive a 31khz lower and a 15khz higher?
It's the deflection yoke. These are very specific to the display since they're responsible for focusing and controlling the beam. A standard 480i CRT TV can't focus the beam tightly enough for 31Khz scanning.

[Anonymous No.5788210]

>>5788163
>Why was plastic never used?
No idea. But also no reason I can think of why it could not. There are plastic camera lenses.

Maybe, and this is pure conjecture, plastic still has enough conductivity for it to not work properly.

[Funcoland Clown No.5788516]

>>5787959
>You don't know what a "moka pot" is so you must be a hipster

[Anonymous No.5788640]

>>5788163
>Why was plastic never used?
Most CRTs have plastic cases. If you mean the tube itself, it's because it has to be made from lead glass to shield you from the x-rays.

[Anonymous No.5788667]

>>5787892
>Surely you at least can appreciate my colossal stupidity
How could I not?

[Anonymous No.5788704]

>>5787027
>state something as fact
>it's a feeling
thanks for being another reminder why coming to this board less often has been a good idea

[Anonymous No.5788716]

Sorry collectorfags, CRTs are still being made. The tubes are still being made, not "old stock" or recycling. Just lol at people thinking otherwise, lots are in this thread I guess If there is demand for a 50 inch PVM or whatever people can obviously make them. https://www.thomaselectronics.com/faq/

[Anonymous No.5788749]

>>5788716
>https://www.thomaselectronics.com/faq/
How do you plan to get your hands on any of that literal military and medical stock that's likely not even compatible with consumer models, retard? Did you even read what you linked?

[Anonymous No.5788752]

Carbon emissions laws prevent their manufacture and sale in stores like Best Buy outside of places like China/etc.

[Anonymous No.5788753]

>>5788752
I hope this is bait and the global warming scare hippies aren't denying me sweet CRTs

[Anonymous No.5788756]

>>5788753
You can't make money making new CRTs that's what is denying you

[Anonymous No.5788774]

>>5788753
It's not bait. Why do you think CRTs really went away? They use too much wattage and their manufacture uses too many resources and too much energy to be viable on a planet with 7+ billion people.
A disposable, cheap, "efficient" option was required by law in most developed places.
It's the same reason modern packaging is complete shit, and why you can't find game manuals in new games anymore.

[Anonymous No.5788793]

>>5788753
Ah yes the Chinese conspiracy to ruin the economy. Neck yourself please.

[Anonymous No.5788802]

>>5788774
retard

[Anonymous No.5788817]

>>5788793
Billions of dollars in funding, taxes, and donations for the global warming scare. The threat of imminent apocalypse every 2 years for the past half century. Proven natural warming cycles and carbon levels have been on uptick since well before the industrial revolution ever even began. Did you ever ask where all the money is going and what all the scare is about? It's literally a profiteering racket, and saying so gets you labelled a heretic for a reason. Not to mention governments use the global warming excuse to literally rape the resources of developing countries even further because they can't be trusted with them.

[Anonymous No.5788826]

>>5788817
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

But I know. All the scientists are wrong and bought and paid off but that one guy you saw on youtube knows the truth.

Go back to /pol/ you mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.5788830]

>>5788826
>A NASA link, appeal to authority fallacy and adhom all in one post
Do you have a script by any chance?

[Anonymous No.5788837]

>>5788068
>feet over inches
is this available in actual units?

[Anonymous No.5788852]

>>5788837
reddit post

[Anonymous No.5788895]

>>5787907
>The main problem, I guess, is that the current colors gamut stand doesn't cover the NTSC standard.
Yeah, this would certainly be a problem if the NTSC color gamut had ever been relevant and CRTs actually covered it. But good luck with that project of yours.

[Anonymous No.5788926]

>>5787142
>CRT TV

[Anonymous No.5788941]

>>5788837
It is. Your boiclit is one € long

[Anonymous No.5788979]

>>5784389
Rear projection TVs used 3x mono tubes with colour filters. Could you make a cottage industry rear projection revival?

[Anonymous No.5788987]

>>5788837

Well for tradition reasons and compability screen diagonals to this day are often given in inches even outside of Murica. With feet the rough conversion 5ft = 1.5m is often close enough, 1ft is roughly 30cm.

[Anonymous No.5788993]

>>5788802
He is making shit up, but he's not too far off the mark. CRTs were made using processes that are straight up illegal today. Lead, arsenic, brominated stuff, etc. etc. Sure they can make compatible stuff using modern techniques, and get a waiver for the leaded glass, but as it was, the regulation was hitting right about the time CRTs were being supplanted by LCD and Plasma and manufacturers just collectively decided not to bother retooling. Bear in mind there really was only a tiny number of places making the tubes, all the TV brands were just packaging one of like three brands of tube. So if 2 of them gave up and the third said "mil spec and medical only", LG isn't going to make its own factory when they can go ham on LCD, now are they?

[Anonymous No.5789000]

>>5786074
kek nice pasta autist

[Anonymous No.5789007]

>>5786523
>CNN
kys faggot

[Anonymous No.5789012]

>>5788068
That picture is a load of shit, get your eyes checked niggas.

[Anonymous No.5789019]

>>5788993
Maybe there was a more obvious reason? The massively declining sales for instance.
>>5789012
The difference between that picture and your opinion is that one of them has been pulled directly out of your ass, and the other is based on science.

[Anonymous No.5789171]

>>5788993
>Bear in mind there really was only a tiny number of places making the tubes, all the TV brands were just packaging one of like three brands of tub
That isn't true anyway.

[Anonymous No.5789176]

>>5789019
>Maybe there was a more obvious reason? The massively declining sales for instance.
I don't remember sales actually falling off until the mid 2000s or so and it was less a demand thing than that people couldn't buy new ones. You can't buy a new Trinitron when Sony refuses to sell it to you.

[Anonymous No.5789534]

>>5789176
>it was less a demand thing
[citation needed]
>You can't buy a new Trinitron when Sony refuses to sell it to you
You don't produce something if there isn't a large enough market for it.

[Anonymous No.5789541]

>>5789176
Plenty of companies made CRT long after 2005/6 when LCD started to lower in price.

No one wanted the older tech. Besides retro gaming, CRT suffers in so many areas that most brainless would never admit.

[Anonymous No.5789542]

>>5789534
Look carefully. The falloff in CRT sales coincides with an industry-wide decision to phase out manufacture of them.

[Anonymous No.5789550]

>>5788895
I see. But the colors definetely change.

There're some guys that change the sprite pallets to NTSC, and it's pretty good.

[Anonymous No.5789553]

Anything that requires motion will always be better on a CRT b/c sample and hold blur.

[Anonymous No.5789556]

>>5789542
I remember when our university decided to get rid of all the fine CRT monitors we had and replaced them with lower resolution, laggy, pixellated shit lcd monitors, such a joke. LCD technology is improved now sure, but you can't beat a good CRT.

[Anonymous No.5789568]

I'll be honest flat panels are far better for static images though.

[Anonymous No.5789629]

>>5789542
Ah yes, that "industry-wide decision" based on all that legislation that made it impossible to produce CRTs and eventually forced consumers to buy LCD TVs.
>>5789550
Right. As in you want to match what was displayed on a CRT TV to whatever you want to display it on. But I don't think that's impossible.
>>5789553
And why do you think this is completely impossible to achieve with any other technology? There is nothing stopping from briefly flashing LEDs. High refresh rate TN panels with strobed backlights have better motion quality than a CRT due to the lack of decaying phosphors. It's no good for 60 hz content of course.
>>5789556
>you can't beat a good CRT
Depends on the use. CRTs are far from perfect. ANSI/intrascene/whateveryouwannacallit contrast is absolutely terrible on CRTs. And no, CRTs don't have "perfect blacks" either.

[Anonymous No.5789669]

>>5789553
Black frame insertion fixes that. The problem with BFS is dimming.

[Anonymous No.5791098]

After a certain point, the desire for them will outweight the declining stock to the point where making them again as a specialty product.

[Anonymous No.5791173]

>>5791098
Even PVMemes and muh FW900 that are memed into oblivion are only selling for a fraction of what they cost from new. Even if you somehow got production up and running, you would need to sell at significantly higher prices than what they went for back then, and there certainly wouldn't be a market for that.

[Anonymous No.5791182]

>>5789541
>CRT suffers in so many areas
for example, in area of table

[Anonymous No.5791191]

>Plenty of companies made CRT long after 2005/6 when LCD started to lower in price.
Not the main ones that you see on the market, which is what normies and plenty of non-normies buy. "Plenty of companies" sell flash carts too but the mainstream rarely buys them.

>>5789541
>No one wanted the older tech. Besides retro gaming, CRT suffers in so many areas that most brainless would never admit.
"No one wanted the older tech" because the industry was making it harder for them to get and were telling them LCD was a lot better because it was "sharper", in a ridiculous attempt to conflate monitor/picture sharpness (which obviously isn't always good) to vision sharpness.

The people talking about energy and environmental considerations are completely right. Government policies around the world were intent to phase out CRTs just like they are light bulbs. I don't know why that would strike anyone as being bs, that was a huge part of why it happened. Another thing is that CRTs are so bulky and even how they involve heavy lifting, for a large organization those things matter a lot. Once it became even slightly viable it made much more sense for companies to invest strongly in LCD technology, far before it ever made sense to get them on a consumer level. It's only in recent times that LCDs are finally getting back to where CRTs were the whole time.
>CRT suffers in so many areas that most brainless would never admit.
Imagine actually believing this.

[Anonymous No.5791209]

>>5789550
"NTSC" palettes for things like NES emulators are approximating how TVs handled out of range colours in the composite -> RGB decoding, not the gamut of RGB -> light.

[Anonymous No.5791217]

>>5791191
Lmoa, just give me one (1) source on this absolute conspiritard bullshit. Plasma panels use way more power than fucking CRTs as well and production only stopped in 2014.
Normal people don't give a fuck about picture quality either. Otherwise plasma would actually have been popular and same goes for OLED.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791230]

>>5791217
He lives in some authoritarian European shithole where he's been stomped into believing government regulation is actually more powerful than the almighty dollar. Nothing serious has ever been manufactured there and nothing ever will be.

[Anonymous No.5791327]

>>5791217
>>5791230
Honestly, I can't wit this. I am a serious person with a serious professional life. This is just nuts.

It's not a "conspiracy" you utter retard, it's open government policy for decades. Every government, not just western. The conspiracy would be if they weren't enacting policies.

And why do you think plasma got killed off? Why this great technology just disappeared? A large part of it was because they weren't favoured because of their power consumption. https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/giant-plasma-tvs-face-ban-in-battle-to-green-britain-1299665.html The EU in general are stricter than the UK and when it fails in one market it's unlikely to continue in another.

It almost pains me to post that because it's so fucking obvious. It's also policy for all government equipment to be as green as possible. People like you guys coming on here talking about normies - normies fucking shit all over your dumb asses. At least they read the news and have the slightest clue what's going on in the world. How anyone could have so little clue about how the world works - zoomers or not, you don't escape by saying you're just a zoomer so you just don't know any better cause I certainly was never that retarded.

[Anonymous No.5791345]

>>5791327
Seek professional help.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2008/03/05/business/pioneer-to-stop-making-plasma-display-panels/

[Anonymous No.5791354]

So he's basically telling me that CRTs didn't die from lack of demand but bullcrap government regulation.

[Anonymous No.5791374]

>>5791354
See >>5784373

Those cunts don't have any environmental laws, so...

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791404]

>>5791374
Exactly. I don't know why that fucking globalist thinks there's "open government policy for every government" but places like China and India both literally do not give a single shit about the environment and have significant industrialization/manufacturing. If it can be profitable, China will do it.

I suppose it's possible that it's other countries' environmental regulations that are preventing the IMPORT of Chinese CRTs which results in only shitty CRTs being made since they're for exclusively domestic consumption. We import all kinds of stuff like semiconductors that they manufacture without regard for the environment but the CRTs might be a shower but less "vital" thing to restrict than semiconductors.

[Anonymous No.5791416]

>>5791404
What the hell are you rambling about? First of all, there is absolutely no proof that new tubes are being produced. Second of all, who the fuck would buy some shit CRT TV just because it was """new""" when high quality used sets are being given away for free or for pennies in basically all of the civilized world.

[Anonymous No.5791428]

>>5791416
>What the hell are you rambling about? First of all, there is absolutely no proof that new tubes are being produced
Why not? Those cunts don't give a shit about the environment.

[Anonymous No.5791439]

>>5791428
What? I'm saying that there is no fucking proof that there is currently a production of CRT tubes for TVs.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791441]

>>5791416
Yes, I agree that it is unlikely considering we aren't seeing new CRTs in developed nations. I'm acknowledging it's POSSIBLE that they're being manufactured and simply blocked from import or even just not worth them exporting. I remember ten years ago when there were cheap crts at Walmart, slightly less expensive than a similarly sized LCD but no one was buying them and surprise surprise Walmart stopped carrying them.

This is the normal effects of natural market forces, which is what I'm very confident has caused the end of CRT manufacture (the topic of this thread, which has nothing to do with quality used crts). I'm not a fan of environmental regulations but they're only a small factor in the unprofitability of CRT manufacturing. Not everyone who replies to you is trying to argue with you. Reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.5791450]

>>5791439
There's also no proof that there isn't. Unless there's the possibility that they have a ton of stockpiled tubes and will make more when those get exhausted.

[Anonymous No.5791454]

>>5791450
>they have a ton of stockpiled tubes
Yes
>and will make more when those get exhausted.
No

[Anonymous No.5791460]

>>5791441
Fair enough.
>>5791450
>There's also no proof that there isn't.
Stay in school, kids.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791461]

>>5791450
There's a reason there's no proof of the kind of stuff that goes on in Asian electronic manufacturing

[Anonymous No.5791473]

>>5791454
>and will make more when those get exhausted.
>No
Why do you suppose not?

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791476]

>>5791473
Economics of scale

[Anonymous No.5791478]

>>5791473
There's no economic justification whatsoever

[Anonymous No.5791485]

>Babbage's Gramps aka known ban evader still thinks I'm going to give him (You)s
How cute.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791487]

>>5791461
But chinks actually love to show off their factories? There are plenty of videos around. Just not of CRT tube factories cause they aren't a thing.
>>5791485
You what now?

[Anonymous No.5791492]

>>5784471
Plenty of normal people are interested in retro consoles. Only a tiny handful of hardcore collectors and hobbyists actually want huge, heavy, unwieldy, dust-collecting eyesores in their house.

[Anonymous No.5791494]

>>5791450
No but absence of evidence is generally evidence of absence?

[Anonymous No.5791501]

>>5791473
>>5791454
I grant it's a possibility.

[Funcoland Clown No.5791502]

>>5791487
All the media that comes out of China is carefully censored to the point of it essentially being propaganda. For every sterile new white clean factory you see there's some undetermined number of ones you don't. I do think it's pretty likely they're not manufacturing them though, like I said earlier - and are just closing out existing stock of the tubes. Right here on my local Craigslist a few years ago I saw someone trying to sell palettes full of VGA CRTs at an incomplete state of manufacture (no pcbs). That's how suddenly the plug got pulled, relative to the production of the tube themselves.

>>5791485
We are legion

[Funcoland Clown No.5791508]

>>5791502
Wow gee, thanks for your oh so deep insight on China. I really don't know what I would have done without it.
China isn't North Korea, you fucking idiot.

[Funcoland Clown No.5791534]

>>5791508
Yes, the key difference here being that North Korea doesn't even have any sterile new clean white factories to show.

[Anonymous No.5791541]

Whether or not China is still making them doesn't prove consumer demand. As has been well established colour monitors require huge investment and consumers to be profitable. Otherwise it's no-go.

Think of it like the car market - there are a few major makers worldwide that take over the whole market. Nobody drives around in a car some local factory made from scratch. If a certain type of car is banned in western countries, the major car makers probably won't design those cars anymore for anyone as it's just not worth it for them.

[Funcoland Clown No.5791596]

>>5791534
Yes, that's definitely it. Now run along, kid.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791602]

>>5791596
If you love China so much maybe you should go back there. I'm sure 4chan is blocked.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791612]

>>5791602
If you like sucking cock so much maybe you should go back to doing that? And everyone and their fucking mother has a VPN in China.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5791626]

>>5791612
I heard this guy had a VPN too

[Funcoland Clown No.5791698]

>>5791626
Haha, that's epic.

[Anonymous No.5792061]

>>5784395
but anon i want to replay point balnk with my kids

think of the kids...

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5792137]

>>5792061
Point Blank is pretty fun to tap. It's not the same of course but pretty fun. Someone should invent a light gun that actually shoots some kind of beam that triggers inductive touch.

[Anonymous No.5792160]

>>5784371
>>5784373
I really wish someone would do a kickstarter to get one one of those companies to make some high spec tubes.

Not just for console gamers but arcades too. It sucks having monitors going on classic games and having to scavenge them from other system. A lot of arcade collectors would pay good money for bulk high quality tubes.

Any techs know what I am talking about?

[Anonymous No.5792163]

Did CRT ever reach its peak? Could it have continued to be improved upon?
It would have been nice if SED or FED were released
>>5784376
>no similar adjacent device that kind of uses the same tech
SED and FED, SED was going to be released but a lawsuit stopped it, they decided not the take them to market after the lawsuit because by the time it was out LCD and LED were already out for a few years and they didn't think people would be willing to pay twice as much for a new type of TV even if it is superior.

[Anonymous No.5792167]

>>5784395
>We are currently fucking the earth with a heat death
More anti- physical copy, pro paying for a download propaganda. Die Gabe

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5792176]

>>5792163
SED would have been the most like CRT but it still would have used a progressive scan, digital signal. To make true CRTs bigger than ~40 inches would require superconductors in the deflection yoke which I'm assuming is considered impractical.

[Anonymous No.5792180]

Some day you will never be able to play this or compete against a friend for a high score.

[Anonymous No.5792189]

>>5792176
Were DLP TVs that bad? I had a friend who did repair and said they were really great if you kept up with the parts, and since everything was replaceable you could fix them instead of tossing them out like when an LCD breaks.

Of course the guy repairs them so he was probably biased. I wonder if they could have made 4k DLP TVs with new technology or something if they didn't all die out.

[Anonymous No.5792196]

is it possible to 3d print a crt?

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5792213]

>>5792189
I like DLP but there's no point in having a "DLP TV" when you can just buy a DLP projector that takes up less space and has the capability of throwing a much larger screen.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5792218]

>>5792180
I literally have that exact cabinet sitting in my garage lol

Except my gun is black

[Anonymous No.5792313]

>>5792218
Lucky. I only get to play it once or twice a year when I visit the Museum of Pinball in Banning California.

I really love all the Play Choice 10 games. Even Vs The Goonies.

[Anonymous No.5792326]

Monochrome tubes may as a garage project ala radio tubes. Color tubes just aren't possible without big, heavy, and expensive equipment.

[Anonymous No.5792330]

>>5792160
>Not just for console gamers but arcades too. It sucks having monitors going on classic games and having to scavenge them from other system. A lot of arcade collectors would pay good money for bulk high quality tubes.
There was a Taiwanese manufacturer that made arcade CRTs until several years ago IIRC, but they discontinued them. Didn't matter how much arcadefags pleaded and threw money at them, they were like "Nuh uh, screw you."

[Anonymous No.5792337]

>>5792330
I've never known a company to refuse money, but what do I know.

[Father Electronics Boutique No.5792340]

>>5792313
Playchoice is different from Vs. System. An RGB NES is essentially the same just some slight variations in palette qv the SMB sky color debate.

[Anonymous No.5792473]

Nope, once existing ones die, future generations will literally never experience the perfect motion and soft glow of a CRT. Feels good to know that no one in the future will ever have it as good as me.

[Anonymous No.5792496]

>>5784371
I was playing some games on the uncle's HDTV and the input lag was shit so I looked around in settings and found a gaming mode, turned it on and the input lag went away, so any TV that has that negates needing a CRT anymore.

[Anonymous No.5792516]

>>5792326
Most likely scenario.

[Anonymous No.5792519]

>>5792326
The manufacturing equipment is probably gathering dust in a shuttered factory somewhere. It will take a rich crazy enthusiast to...

[Anonymous No.5792579]

>>5792189
>Were DLP TVs that bad?
No, they are severely underrated for two reasons.

1. muh lag
2. rainbow effects

1st is not that important for several scenarios, and the second is greatly reduced in later generation units.

A last-gen massive DLP is an amazing choice for a home cinema display and can be found cheaply right now.

[Anonymous No.5792582]

>>5787907
>I'm learning to program, I'm thinking about creating a Github open source project to simulate old CRTs through post-processing.
this is literally what Retroarch shaders are you n00b

[Anonymous No.5792898]

>>5792163
>LED were already out
The only real LED displays are the huge outdoor ones. LCD with LED backlight is not "LED". Don't spread the advertising propaganda.

[Anonymous No.5794532]

>>5792163
SED/FED were more competitors to plasma than to LCD, going for quality and good black levels, but even plasmas were kinda dying to cheap ass big LCDs.

[Anonymous No.5794539]

>>5792579
>1. muh lag
Putting "muh" in front of it doesn't make it a non-issue you dumb fuck. Yeah, DLP TVs are shit, though you can find some good DLP projectors that have sub 20ms lag.

[Anonymous No.5794547]

>>5792898
>LED isn't LED

lol, what a fucking idiot you are.

[Anonymous No.5794549]

>>5794539
You have poor reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.5794571]

>>5794547
He said LCD with LED backlight, retard

[Anonymous No.5794584]

>>5794571
>LED isn't LED

lol, what a fucking idiot you are as well.

[Anonymous No.5794602]

>>5792898
That's wrong. You can get small LED screen panels as well. Even the Virtualboy used a type of LED display.
Samsung has also started selling LED TVs recently.

[Anonymous No.5794624]

>>5794584
If it's not using LEDs as the display element then it's not an LED monitor. You are a massive retard. By your logic every device with LEDs in it is an LED monitor.

[Anonymous No.5794789]

>>5794602
And none of those look like a regular display except
>Samsung has also started selling LED TVs recently.
which is just not true. It's still only prototypes.

[Anonymous No.5794835]

>>5792496
>so any TV that has that negates needing a CRT anymore.
If it doesn't flicker it doesn't have CRT-tier motion quality.

[Anonymous No.5794843]

>>5792496
Bait

[Anonymous No.5794890]

>>5794789
They are taking orders for the business version.

[Anonymous No.5794901]

>>5784371
Yes. One literally just rolled off the assembly line right now.

[Anonymous No.5794902]

>>5794890
They started doing that a year ago. Go figure. You can "order" a trip to space as well.

[Anonymous No.5796062]

>>5792898
Same shit, they're both garbage and inferior to SED.

[Funcoland Clown No.5796075]

>>5796062
This fixation on SED is kind of fascinating psychologically. It was really not that different from plasma which ultimately was more feasible but there's lots of people who feel like they were cheated out of something great.

[Anonymous No.5796082]

>>5788749
Nice goalpost moving. The subject of debate is "Are CRTs still being made" and they are, I posted proof. If there's enough demand, obviously they will be available to consumers, too. CRTs are still being manufactured. Cope

[Anonymous No.5796087]

>>5796075
>not that different
SED is an emission display same as CRT

[Funcoland Clown No.5796110]

>>5796087
Same as plasma. SED and FED are still progressive scan technologies reliant on a panel of emitters rather than an analog deflection yoke like CRTs

[Anonymous No.5796279]

Is this the /crt/ thread? I have a question about muted colors. I recently got a PVM-10L2 and the colors are noticeably duller than my other monitors. Is this something that I should be looking to adjust in the on screen menu or is it a sign of a failing component?

[Funcoland Clown No.5796305]

>>5796279
Its not and I don't think there are 10 inch pvms but you should have a Chroma knob. If that doesn't have enough range there should be a color temperature range you can change under chroma in the menu.

[Anonymous No.5796316]

>>5796305
Thanks, I turned the chroma up a tiny bit and the contrast way up. When i got the monitor the contrast was turned way the fuck up so i turned it down to the median notch. the pvm 2030 still has brighter colors, but it also has a "new dynamic color" option, which im almost sure is just cranking the contrast up.

[Anonymous No.5796320]

>>5796305
Fuck, i also didnt even notice that i typed in 10L2, its a 20.

[Anonymous No.5796449]

>>5786053
Look on Alibaba shit is wholesale though

[Anonymous No.5796686]

With all the modern retro gadgets being created by individuals or small companies, like the retrovision cables, OSSC, carby, etc. I could totally see some rich as shit retro guy funding a project to make a modern CRT and maybe having a kickstarter on the side.

It would probably crash and burn. I don't see how you can get the materials and production lines outside of ripping apart other CRTs and even then that doesn't work.

I'm curious, but don't see it being anything other than a news story to build up hype and then disappear on release.

[Anonymous No.5797325]

>>5792163
sned's fed and sed