Wipeout vs F-Zero

[Anonymous No.5780825]

What was the superior antigrav racing series?

[Anonymous No.5780837]

i summon cee

[Anonymous No.5780841]

We've been through this a lot of times.
Wipeout if you prefer slower but more "realistic" gameplay, and more geared toward single-player.
F-Zero if you prefer fast arcade gameplay and multiplayer.

[Anonymous No.5780843]

>>5780841
F-Zero had too much bullshit. All the different types of turns you needed to learn to do were completely unintuitive as to how antigrav physics might actually work.

The "realism" of Wipeout makes the series way better imo because anyone can pick it up and play it without needing to read a fucking game guide.

Also Wipeout had superior music

[Anonymous No.5780850]

>>5780843
I didn't need to read any guide and could still get gud at F-Zero.
About the music, I like Wipeout's OSTs but as far as electronic music goes, there's better electronic OSTs on Playstation. I actually prefer F-Zero's OSTs, though.

[Anonymous No.5780856]

>>5780843
>f-zero bad because need too much learning

[Anonymous No.5780859]

>>5780841
Either leaning towards singleplayer or multiplayer over the other makes zero sense. F-Zero GX definitely put some attention into campaign and Wipeout HD definitely had a clusterfuck multiplayer matches.

[Anonymous No.5780860]

Wipeout had the better vehicle designs

[Anonymous No.5780873]

>>5780860
You use whatever is best, not whatever is the prettiest, missy.

[Anonymous No.5780896]

>>5780856
It's not that it requires "too much learning", whatever the fuck that means, but that it has unintuitive 'gamey' mechanics that will make or break your effectiveness. While this may make for more entertaining speedruns to watch, it's a failure from a game design standpoint.

[Anonymous No.5780927]

>>5780896
So F-Zero is for people that actually like video games, and Wipeout is for shitters that just want to play make-believe without anything """gamey""" ruining their fantasy, got it.

[Anonymous No.5780939]

>>5780927
I don't think the kind of people that engage in repetitive play with any these non-story driven arcade style games are doing so because they "like video games". It seems more like a compulsion or habit at that point. I don't know how accurate this is, since I'm dealing with a small sample size here, but it seems like the people that got really into "mastering" games at a young age had very few games to choose from at the time.

[Anonymous No.5780943]

>>5780939
>I don't think the people who prefer what video games were for 80% of their history really like video games

[Anonymous No.5780945]

>>5780843
>wtf why aren't these made up flying cars in a sci fi video game realistic enough!!

[Anonymous No.5780951]

>>5780825
Wipeout is the only one out of those two that actually feels like antigrav racing. You could put wheels on F-Zero ships and the game would be no different.

[Anonymous No.5780953]

Which Wipeout game is better?

[Anonymous No.5780956]

For Wipeout-style games, BallisticNG is the best:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/473770/BallisticNG/


Wipeout 3 for the PS2 was the best real Wipeout

Wipeout HD for PS3 was also pretty good

Wipeout 2097 was redbull-tier.

[Anonymous No.5780958]

>>5780943
>what video games were for 80% of their history
Gen 4 is when gaming became something more than content-lite quarter sucking ventures, although many games still clung to that primitive low-effort/max profit design philosophy for a while. The fact that you think this was a good thing points to it being a compulsive habit.

[Anonymous No.5780963]

>>5780956
meant for
>>5780953

[Anonymous No.5780965]

>>5780958
There's an entire board for cultured interactive movie connoisseurs like you, why not join them instead us wasting time with us primitive neanderthals that like dated 'gamey' games?

[Anonymous No.5780969]

>>5780965
There's a board for anons who prefer all of the great games from gen 4/5 and who don't obsess over niche arcade shit? Man, I'm missing out, show me this hidden board.

[Anonymous No.5780981]

>>5780969
Yes, no one ever talks about REAL games like Zelda and Metal Gear on this board. Hidden gems like those are barely talked about here.

[Anonymous No.5780987]

>>5780956
>Wipeout 3 for the PS2
nigga

[Anonymous No.5780992]

>>5780981
Anon I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but reminder that this all started because someone said that wipeout was the better 'pick up and play' game and you lost your shit.

[Anonymous No.5780995]

>>5780956
>Wipeout 3 for the PS2 was the best real Wipeout
Can you please clarify which game you are talking about, I'm sensing some conflict

[Anonymous No.5781003]

>>5780987
Sorry, that was a typo

It's PS1 obviously

[Anonymous No.5781005]

>>5780992
I've been rambling, yes. I only chimed in at 'gamey', I just think that's such a stupid criticism for a video game.

[Anonymous No.5781019]

>>5780951
Wipeout: piloting anti-grav ships
F-Zero: piloting rockets

[Anonymous No.5781023]

>>5780951
This is admittedly true, and why I prefer F-Zero. I like the idea of driving future race"cars" rather than ships, and I like the "grippy" handling and sliding.

[Anonymous No.5781024]

F-Zero, because of better framerates.

[Anonymous No.5781025]

>>5780896
>but that it has unintuitive 'gamey' mechanics
based journalist

[Anonymous No.5781026]

>>5781005
Depends on the type of game in question. Removing ultra high level play from the equation, since most games can be broken in that manner: If mid level play looks like you're playing an entirely different game from low level play, I think that's an example of bad game design, especially for a game designed to be played socially. Smash shares the same core issue.

[Anonymous No.5781034]

>>5781023
I hate the floaty and swoopy feeling and animations of most futuristic racing games, to be honest.

I like my racing games to not be hovercrafts on greased up ice, thank you.

[Anonymous No.5781035]

>>5781026
Is F-Zero's cornering really that complicated though? You can hold a shoulder button for a tighter turn, slide, or spin, and if you're talking about mid-level play, you wouldn't need to spin much or at all.

Talking about "pick up and play", I think Wipeout is a good series, but the kind of "floating" feeling to the steering can seem a little unintuitive.

[Anonymous No.5781036]

>>5781026
High skill ceilings aren't bad game design. Why do you think fzero is some party game?

[Anonymous No.5781038]

>>5781035
Iirc, f-zero gx has drift turns, quick turns and slide turns.

[Anonymous No.5781040]

>>5781034
Future racing on wheels is always fun. You get the cool aesthetics, plus the control of a "normal" driving game.

[Anonymous No.5781058]

Wipeout no context, it has great technical tracks instead of ultra wide generic abstract planes, much better music, cool futuristic aesthetics rather than some dumb looking shit, the air brakes system is great and has a lot of depth without being a broken patchwork of different unintuitive systems, it has no retarded shit like snaking, it has some skips but they are reasonable, it uses real racing fundamentals, its one of the most tense racers at decent to higb levels and it works as both a dumb party game and a proper racer depending on if you play with items on or off. The one flaw of F Zero that I can't overlook is that the games have no real feel, the ships don't feel like ships they feel liks toys that turn on a dime and don't have any kind of physics applied to them. That just kills all the joy of playing for me.

[Anonymous No.5781061]

>>5781035
>Is F-Zero's cornering really that complicated though?
Somewhat, yes, since it isn't properly communicated to the player in-game and doesn't logically make sense with the visual feedback you're presented with. Wipeout is floaty, but by the time you finish your first lap you get the gist of how everything works, and from there it's intuitively learning to manage your speed and memorizing the tracks.

>>5781036
High skill ceilings are fine, but the curve should be gradual. If you aren't using advanced turning techniques it feels like you're playing the game wrong.
>Why do you think fzero is some party game?
I think these racers were primarily designed with local multiplayer in mind.

[Anonymous No.5781068]

I wish F-Zero would reward you for killing the other drivers. Technically it helps by taking one person out of the race, but it would be cool if it gave you boost energy or something like that.

[Anonymous No.5781071]

>>5780825
f-zero was a tech demo. wipeout was a real game. are you even serious? f-zero sucks cocks.

[Anonymous No.5781074]

>>5781061
Yeah Wipeout does have a bunch of advanced mechanics (opposite braking being the obvious one) but they are really just good application of the basics. As a player you understand that air brakes slide you, and you understand that you can air brake in the opposite direction of your steering so you can deduce that if you press opposite air brake and steering directions at the same time you can strafe. Same with many other techniques like correcting oversteer, or advanced pitch management. The only thing that's glitchy is ramp boosts in 3, even the skips are pretty intuitive. F-Zero though that's full of this kind of retarded shit, especially GX but X has been thoroughly broken over the years too see flying that's almost snaking tier and is the result of sloppy code rather than good game mechanics.

[Anonymous No.5781075]

>>5781068
If you take out a certain number of drivers in F-Zero you get an extra life.

[Anonymous No.5781097]

>>5780939
You think wrong, racers are meant for that kind of autism and get more fun when you engage in it. There's few things like the concentration you reach when you're trying to optimize a good pb further, or the feel of seamlessly entering corners and getting the perfect lines, or the tension of the last lap when there's all that building pressure but you still need to be very precise. It's so exciting and immersive. You can't truly appreciate the games until you get the aspie like desire to go fast and optimize, all you will get is a shallow impression.

[Anonymous No.5781295]

>>5781058
>no context
nice way to sum up your post.

[Anonymous No.5781297]

>>5781058
>great technical tracks
>generic abstract planes
>much better music
>some dumb looking shit
>great and has a lot of depth
>broken patchwork of different unintuitive systems
>retarded shit
>skips but they are reasonable
>most tense racers
>dumb party game
>proper racer
That's a lot of buzzwords and silly biased, unimportant opinions right there, boy.

[Anonymous No.5781298]

Wipeout fans constantly NEEDING their game to be compared to F-Zero reminds me of Alundra threads, where Alundra fans NEED to compare to Zelda no matter what.
Why are you guys like this? Can't enjoy a game without having to compare it to the games in the console you didn't own?

[Anonymous No.5781317]

>>5781297
Are you so ass blasted over an opinion that you've lost all capacity for though? Wtf is this lmao, where are the buzzwords and who are you to deem my opinions "unimportant"? I can substantiate everything I said if you want, just don't see a need for it

[Anonymous No.5781321]

>>5781298
It's because these comparison threads get more discussion than normal. Actual Wipeout threads are mostly devoid of F Zero mentions and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.5781324]

>>5781317
Not him, but I can see the point.
Saying "this good", "this bad" is just noting your opinions without giving much actual input as to why you think something is better. You just say "this is good, and this other thing sucks!" and call it a day. Then again, this is the case for 99,99% in human discussion.

[Anonymous No.5781329]

This is another Sony vs Nintendo thing.
>but wipeout was on N64
Yeah but wipeout fans will say N64 one is bad and PS ones are good.

[Anonymous No.5781330]

>>5780843
>Talks about realism in a game about fictional alien space ships.

Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.5781341]

>>5781324
Well what do you want, an essay? As I said I can elaborate, that shit's just my general view. Take skips for instance, skips in Wipeout are about taking the natural racing line in the air, using your ship's normal properties to fly over corners, this makes sense and is reasonable even though it can look pretty stupid sometimes. F-Zero X flight, though? You exit the track at the right angle, you do a really obnoxious series of inputs and gain altitude for no reason then spam the attack to dive which makes you massively speed up again completely for no reason. It's all counter-intuitive and obscure, you won't just learn this through play, you have to look up guides and even when you do your reward is looking like an absolute spastic and potentially a nice dose of RSI. This particular example is a glitch so it's extreme (though the F-Zero series is defined by its glitches, not by its normal mechanics which are quite shallow) but this difference can be seen in nearly every aspect of the game. Even something as simple as drifting speeds you up for some inexplicable reason, even racing games heavily based around drifting have drifts simply preserve good speed through corners, not outright speed you up. This isn't game design, it's just a collection of mechanics and glitches that aren't tied together into any coherent system.

[Anonymous No.5781343]

>>5781341
>it's not intuitive!
You've been saying the same shit the whole thread and people are just laughing at your inaptitude.

[Anonymous No.5781348]

>>5781343
That's not me, it's a fairly common opinion. And would be good if the people laughing had any skills themselves, but most of you don't even know any of the advanced mechanics and just stop at beating the AI, if even that.

[Anonymous No.5781526]

>>5780843
>f-zero is unintuitive
>hyper fast, sci-fi anti-grav racer is "unintuitive"
No shit sherlock.

[Anonymous No.5781548]

>>5781071
>tech demo
This is such a non-argument every time it's used. For any game.

[Anonymous No.5781939]

>>5781348
>That's not me
Suuuure.
>most of you
Nice assumptions, zoomer. Stop thinking that you're special just because you started playing older games. We've been playing arcade games since before your dad developed sperm.

[Anonymous No.5782357]

>>5781939
Anon why are you screeching like an emotional woman? Were you raised by single mother?

[Anonymous No.5782501]

For me, it's Star Wars Ep1 Racer, the best anti-grav racing game.

>tfw still can't get first place on Grabvine Gateway

[Anonymous No.5783498]

>>5782357
What's with the projection, anon?

[Anonymous No.5783629]

>>5781939
I don't care about this dumb boomer posturing, actually prove me wrong instead and show that you can pull off flying consistently among with other techniques you are defending.

[Anonymous No.5783639]

>>5780825
F-Zero and Wipeout should be banned from all futuristic racing game discussions

[Anonymous No.5783654]

Wipeout fans are embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.5783658]

>>5780951
It seems like there's always some retard who makes this comment in almost every F-Zero thread. You could put wheels on whoever makes this comment and he'd still be slow.

[Anonymous No.5783863]

>>5780825
>Wipeout vs F-Zero

ahem

[Anonymous No.5783873]

>>5783658
You see it all the time because it's true, Wipeout simply has a more authentic depiction of ag racing. You can feel your ship floating, there's basic aerodynamics, every bump and dip is interactive, pitch control matters a lot and even the ag tech is shown to have limits such as not being able to repel ships that have too much falling speed. F-Zero lacks all of this, the ships are glued to the tracks, gain speed when going sideways, gain speed from fast rough landings and have really buggy awkward flying that feels like the entire physics engine breaks entirely.

[Anonymous No.5783878]

>>5780956
this cracka know what's up

[Anonymous No.5783880]

>Not Dethkarz

[Anonymous No.5783901]

>>5780873
>not gitting gud in style

[Anonymous No.5783915]

>>5780850
>there's better electronic OSTs on Playstation
which ones anon?

[Anonymous No.5783926]

>>5780825
Floating sensation in WO 2097 and especially W3 is unparralled in the VG history, absolut godlike feel. Hate that they chnaged it for the following episodes.

3 and 2097 soundtracks (along with RR Type 4) changed my life

This reminds me that I need to try ballisticNG or whatever it's called

Never tried any F-Zero but it seems to me that the ships are just drift on the surface and not floating in air. Doesn't seem antigrav at all. Am I correct?

[Anonymous No.5783928]

>>5783926
RRT4 soundtrack is god tier.

[Anonymous No.5784114]

>>5780825
Why everyone saying f-zero and wipeout are unintuitive, they feel exactly like i'd expect a hovering race car with jet engines would work: a hovercraft with a jet engine. I like these games exactly for the feel of flying super low and having almost no control, going along with the momentum and inertia and shitting my pants whenever i crash because it goes from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds.

[Anonymous No.5784186]

>>5783926
Drifting is a punishing mechanic in the FZero game if you tunr to much too fast except in GX which is a Sega game and Sega loved putting drifting in their arcade racing games. There's no really punishing mechanics in Wipeout it feels like I'm playing on rails.

[Anonymous No.5784187]

>western racing games

[Anonymous No.5784196]

>>5784186
You've never played Wipeout, have you. Even the steering of Wipeout is punishing, it's very easy to under and oversteer and hard to recover from bounces, you need to learn to use air brakes well just to keep your ship stable, and it has infamously brutal wall collisions even in 3, a single wall hit costs almost a full second.

[Anonymous No.5784261]

even tho I love Wipeout 1 to bits it is pretty rough compared to the sequels. Massive pop-in, framerate issues and those white lines between textures everywhere. Putting on Wipeout 2097 felt like jumping forward 10 years in time. The ship handling is more wobbly in Wipeout 1 which I prefer, but all collisions reduce speed the same which they fixed in the sequels.

[Anonymous No.5784271]

>>5784196
I did and yeah the wall is punishing, not the drifting itself. That's why it feels like playing on rails.

[Anonymous No.5784287]

>>5784271
"The wall" isn't a mechanic, hitting it is a consequence of your failures. And because even tiny mistakes often lead you to crash into a wall and lose speed, the game is punishing. Calling it on rails is bizarre, on rails would be the opposite, where the ships rebound while maintaining decent speed, making your inputs less relevant.

[Anonymous No.5784563]

>>5783873
To me, it's less that F-Zero is "buggy" or broken, and more that F-Zero is more arcade, while Wipeout tries to be kinda more "realistic", but in the end that comes off as Wipeout being slower and clunkier, while F-Zero is faster and swifter. In the end, comparing both games is merely console wars though, because you won't convince F-Zero fans to start liking Wipeout more or viceversa.

[Anonymous No.5785039]

>>5784563
It's more arcade and more broken not just one or the other. Unless you're talking about the first game only, that one is just more arcadey. Or alternatively you're not aware of any of the tech and are speaking only about some of the most basic mechanics which wouldn't surprise me because F-Zero fans are surprisingly clueless about the games they're defending.

[Anonymous No.5785043]

>>5785039
>wouldn't surprise me because F-Zero fans are surprisingly clueless about the games they're defending.
Sure anon, your attitude totally convinces me that you're not just nut obsessed with fandom wars instead of actual discussion.

[Anonymous No.5785114]

>>5785043
I'm discussing the games aren't I? Just because I fling some poo poo every now and then doesn't change that

[Anonymous No.5785126]

>>5785114
>I'm discussing the games aren't I?
You're doing nitpicky comparisons for both games which are actually very different besides being "futuristic AG racers". You're not convincing anyone with your "technical" copymonkey strat babble. F-Zero X runs at 60fps and has more arcade, faster and aggressive gameplay and your nerd shit won't make people prefer your different AG racer over it.
If you want to discuss Wipeout, do it. Stop dragging F-Zero.

[Anonymous No.5785154]

>>5785126
Yeah one feels like you're controlling ag floating ships because of the very clear reasons I outlined, the other doesn't. Simple as that. The fact that people point this out shouldn't be surprising to you, if a game wants to depict floating it needs to simulate real world physics to some extent otherwise it wont feel like the thing it's trying to depict. Common sense.

[Anonymous No.5785178]

>>5780843
F-Zero's standard gameplay is very intuitive. See a corner, turn. Take a clear racing line. The ships are magnetically locked relative to the track (in-story and in terms of how the games handle how the craft reacts to grade changes along the course), so you get a far different handling vs the freely floating (and floaty) Wipeout craft.
Wipeout's handling obscures racing lines, leading to massive, punishing oversteer and understeer, with corners being taken way before they arrive. Recovery from errors is very hard. It's not worse, but it's very definitely less intuitive.

[Anonymous No.5785202]

>>5785178
Well yeah if you ignore almost all of F-Zero's mechanics (like quick turning that eliminates lines, X's drifting, MTS, snaking, the clusterfuck that is flight, exiting the track for speed boosts, hitting sides of speed pads, preserving speed by letting go of accel, and so on) then it's intuitive but it's also very boring. What's "obscures racing lines" even supposed to mean anyway? It's just out-in-out, you're confusing difficult with unintuitive.

[Anonymous No.5785247]

>>5785202
>you're confusing difficult with unintuitive.
Wasn't that you when discussing F-Zero?

[Anonymous No.5785273]

>>5785247
Not at all.

[Anonymous No.5785339]

>>5784261
>Wipeout 2097 felt like jumping forward 10 years in time

I would love WO2097 so much more if it wasn't shilling RedBull at me every three seconds.

[Anonymous No.5785492]

>>5785339
I don't know how that manages to bother you. When I played I just thought "cool, the game is referencing real life products". I don't even know how a red bull tastes. This is also okay because it's a 5th gen game and they're non intrusive.

[Anonymous No.5785667]

>>5780825

[Anonymous No.5786093]

Wipeout was the first title I got for my PSP so there's some nostalgia for me. Impressive eye-candy for the era, cool art and designs. Good music. F-Zero does seem kind of nuts (no personal experience, but I watch my friend play) so I can appreciate people who like it.

[Anonymous No.5786120]

>>5785339
No different than Dole bananas in Super Monkey Ball or Duracell in Pikmin. It's just one brand, and it's not completely out of place (Redbull gives you wings). /vr/ product placement is more based than cringe.

[Anonymous No.5786331]

>>5785339
at that time redbull drinks were banned in my country and the brand was only known from sponsoring extreme sports events. it had an underground feel to it, very fitting to the game atmosphere and the "spirit" sony tried to push in the early days of the ps1.

[Anonymous No.5786394]

>>5780825
see
>>5785667

but it really is tubeslider, followed closely by EXTREME-G

that said I love all of them, and especially love F-Zero X and Wipeout XL