/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5754997]

Why didn't this console have any good JRPGs?

[Anonymous No.5755013]

Well, it does have Paper Mario, Ogre Battle 64, Shiren 2, which are all celebrated games. But if you mean why does the N64 have so little of them, we've been through this before and the general consensus response was that N64 was expensive to develop for, and its main thing was 3D. RPGs during 5th gen still relied a lot on 2D graphics (or simple lowpoly 3D models on pre-rendered 2D backgrounds), and FMVs to carry the story.
The N64 had no problem doing 2D, but for most publishers, doing a 2D game on N64 was risky as 2D was kind of not very hot in the mid/late 90s, people wanted 3D, and that's what N64 was famous for; if you were to spend money on developing a N64 game, might as well be a 3D game. And also, no FMVs (well, some devs managed to fit some sort of digitalized videos on N64 carts, like Factor 5 on Resident Evil 2, but it was definitely not the norm and you couldn't fit as many FMVs as on CD of course).
So, for most companies, making RPGs was just much more feasible on CD-based systems, or handhelds like Game Boy.
Then you have weird games with RPG mechanics like Hybrid Heaven.

[Anonymous No.5755061]

>>5754997
Paper Mario, Orge 64, Harvest Moon 64

[Anonymous No.5755113]

>>5754997
big studios like square and enix were sick of nintendo's bullshit at the time. smaller studios joined them in moving to playstation because cd-roms were cheaper and it was easier for them to make money off their games.

[Anonymous No.5755131]

Cartridges.

[Funcoland Clown No.5755145]

>>5755131
This. Was that so hard?

[Anonymous No.5755151]

>>5755013
The N64 had big problems doing 2D. It's the biggest reason why not even one actual standard RPG made it to the N64.

[Anonymous No.5755153]

>>5755131
Yeah, that sure stopped all those SNES RPGs.

>>5755151
Sounds like nonsense.

[Anonymous No.5755223]

>Why didn't this console have any good games
Fixed

[Funcoland Clown No.5755245]

>>5755153
Why can't you buy Sekiro on floppies?

[Anonymous No.5755263]

>>5755153
How does it sound like nonsense? Certain consoles are better are different things, that we know, and 2D wasn't easily portrayed in the games which is why all menus and speech bubbles etc.. on N64 have a certain look, and why there is not a single standard RPG on the system. RPG's were absolutely huge during that time on other consoles, you don't think Nintendo would do even one regular RPG or have one 'port' if they reasonably could? And you think a developed wouldn't take the chance to enter a completely void niche on a system?

[Anonymous No.5755272]

>>5755151
>It's the biggest reason why not even one actual standard RPG made it to the N64.
Ogre Battle 64 proves you wrong.

[Anonymous No.5755280]

>>5754997
>good games
There fixed that for you, now fuck off.

[Anonymous No.5755282]

>>5754997
Nintendo was autistic at the time

[Anonymous No.5755296]

>>5755151
Wonder Project J2 looks amazing (and it's an Enix published game).
2D wasn't an issue for the N64. The real reason was already stated: developing and publishing for the system was expensive and if you invested on N64 might aswell do 3D.

[Anonymous No.5755301]

>>5755282
>at the time

[Anonymous No.5755312]

I believe it was because carts couldn't hold enough data for really long games like JRPG's.

[Anonymous No.5755316]

>>5755312
What if they just included a vhs for the cutscenes with the game?

[Anonymous No.5755340]

mother 64 might've been good

[Anonymous No.5755356]

>>5755312
Max N64 cart space was 512 MB. Dunno if it was the size of the game back then but the steam release is somewhere around 1200-1500 MB. If it was, then the total amount of discs needed when using maxed out carts would be 3, same as the amount the PS version used. Issue is uh, I don't think the N64 used memory carts that allowed you to continue games with multiple carts. Probably the main reason why we didn't see any bigger games from big devs on it is purely that they couldn't surpass the 512 MB via mem cards like the PS1 could.

[Anonymous No.5755360]

>>5755356
N64 had a memory card you could plug into the controller, no? Why wasn't a multi-cart game ever tried?

[Anonymous No.5755361]

>>5755356
>total amounts of discs
Meant carts but I think you know that.
>>5755360
Oh fuck it does, I forgot about that. Assumed it saved data on the carts. Haven't touched an N64 in a long fucking time. Cost would be my next guess, or Nintendo keeping up its "You release on our system and our system only" shtick still?

[Anonymous No.5755393]

>>5755272
Not a standard RPG, and clearly favors using 3d elements to present what would normally be 2d. The way they programmed many 2d elements was layering them on 3d objects which was an overly complex process that often resulted in lower quality than you would get on other systems.
>>5755296
It's a game that tried to work around the issues and again had 2D layered on 3D and while they made it look pretty good they were clearly limited in what they could do with it. Not saying the other factors listed weren't a big part, but the way N64 handled 2D was not simple and not efficient which is why almost all games tried to work around it.

[Anonymous No.5755431]

>>5754997
The company's CEO at the time was on record publically stating that RPGs were for shut-ins and he didn't want them as customers.

That's literally the only reason. Anyone who says it's more complex than that is just parroting memes.

[Anonymous No.5755434]

>>5755431
Imagine if Reggie or Doug Bowser announced that Earthbound and Animal Crossing was for gay incel and they wouldn’t be making anymore of them

[Anonymous No.5755570]

>>5755151
>The N64 had big problems doing 2D.
Not true. You could render 2D without touching the RSP, and the N64 had some 2D-specific microcodes.>>5755263
>RPG's were absolutely huge during that time on other consoles, you don't think Nintendo would do even one regular RPG or have one 'port' if they reasonably could? And you think a developed wouldn't take the chance to enter a completely void niche on a system?
When you say "RPG" you really mean "JRPG" which was a Japanese genre popular in Japan. The N64 was not a console for people who wanted to play Japanese games. It was very much aimed at non-Japanese audiences with literally the best selling FPS lineup of any console until the 7th gen.

[Anonymous No.5755846]

>>5755393
>The way they programmed many 2d elements was layering them on 3d objects
Isn't the same case with Playstation? Most famous example is SOTN. They had to make flat polygon renders and add textures to give the illusion of 2D. But ultimately, to the human eye, it's still 2D anyway.
Is there any actual proof to support what you're saying, that N64 had trouble doing 2D? Because I don't think so. There are 2D games on N64 that have nothing of 3D (pic related for example). But again, main reason of lack of 2D (or RPGs, which still relied on 2D heavily back then) is that N64 was expensive, and if you were going to invest on N64 development, might aswell use its main feature, which was having more powerful 3D than PS1 or Saturn. If you wanted to do 2D, you had the cheaper Saturn or PS1 options.

[Anonymous No.5755867]

>>5755431
Ironically there's an interview in Nintendo Power magazine that couldn't even hide the shill and asked Miyamoto "yo N64's doing ok in America but Japan it's TANKING. Why dat?" and Miyamoto had no choice but to say "we ain't go no RPGs dawg"

[Anonymous No.5755885]

When Canada thought they could make a good jrpg.


https://youtu.be/W4NCe45bw30

[Anonymous No.5756030]

>>5755393
>>5755846

there's nothing unusual about doing 2D this way. it's not an illusion or inefficient or anything like that. Why would it be less efficient on the N64 to do less work?

[Anonymous No.5756035]

>>5755061
Come on, bro. I like Harvest Moon but it is not an RPG.

[Anonymous No.5756048]

>>5755431

[Anonymous No.5756053]

>>5756048
Is he, dare I say, /ourguy/?

[Anonymous No.5756062]

>>5755312

[Anonymous No.5756067]

>>5756062
RE2 on PS wasn't nearly as huge as FFVII.

[Anonymous No.5756075]

>>5755360
a multi-cart game would have been outrageously expensive for both the publisher and the consumer.

[Anonymous No.5756081]

>>5755312
with ff7 in particular, the n64's hardware also wasn't well-suited to run the game. they tried, and it just wasn't working.

[Anonymous No.5756083]

>>5755867
>pocket monsters 64

[Anonymous No.5756084]

>>5756048
Of course they sit in dark rooms. It's a thousands degrees during a Japanese summer and not all homeowners have AC.

[Anonymous No.5756093]

>>5756081

that quote literally tells you why the N64 was slower in their test. the z-buffer cut fillrate by somewhere around half. if you write your own gpu ucode you don't have to use a z-buffer

[Anonymous No.5756109]

>>5756048
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.5756132]

>>5755312
How big is FF7 without the FMV's? Could you fit that on a single cart?

[Anonymous No.5756134]

>>5755151
Zoomer...

[Anonymous No.5756153]

>>5756132
I don't know about carts, but I know the whole game would have fit on one disc without them.

[Anonymous No.5756189]

>>5755153
>Yeah, that sure stopped all those SNES RPGs.
are you really this much of an ignorant retard?
SNES RPGs were all developed by 3rd parties who preferred developing games for CD once it became available.

[Anonymous No.5756198]

>>5755431
>>5756048
That was sour grapes after Square dumped him for Chad.

[Anonymous No.5756229]

>>5755356
>Max N64 cart space was 512 MB
512Mb, not MB. Divide by 8 to get MB.

[Anonymous No.5756240]

>>5756132
>>5756153
One CD is about 650MB, so that's about 10 of the biggest N64 carts (which were only available late in the system's life).

[Anonymous No.5756246]

>>5756132
You'd also have to downgrade the music since N64 can't stream CD quality tracks.

[Anonymous No.5756248]

>>5755356
No, no, no. The max N64 cart size was 64MB, you're thinking of 512Mb, a very old method of measuring size where they would count the bits rather than the bytes mostly to make it sound bigger. The vast majority of PS1 games can be ripped to some ridiculous small size like 50MB by stripping out all the CD-music and fmvs. You can also strip out tons of textures because N64 had notoriously small texture limits anyway. Add in the N64's hardware-based compression/decompression that doesn't use up resources. Add in how developers that are working with space constraints in mind tend to end up with vastly smaller sizes than those who don't.

Super Mario 64 was all fit into 8 megabytes. RE2 had two discs and came out on N64. There is no question whether they could force it to fit or not, it's how much they would sacrifice that is the question.

[Anonymous No.5756254]

>>5756246
FF7 doesn't have CD audio.

[Anonymous No.5756259]

>>5756246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fqfHQbATwk

inb4 32khz isn't cd quality

[Anonymous No.5756261]

>>5756246
FFVII doesn't use Redbook audio. The N64 is easily capable of playing FFVII's music (basically tracker music), but unlike the PSX it doesn't have dedicated audio hardware, so it will eat into the CPU time. Jarpigs aren't hugely CPU intensive so maybe you'd get away with it, but you still need enough CPU cycles to feed the graphics hardware. Battle scene framerate might be even lower.

[Anonymous No.5756278]

Would Nintendo have won 5th gen if they'd gone with CDs instead of carts for the N64?

Cartridges pretty much scared every developer off to Sony and Sega.

[Anonymous No.5756280]

>>5756278
Hard to tell.
Sony was determined to enter the console market and there wasn't much Nintendo or Sega could have done to stop them. Sony had the money to burn, the CD factories, everything.

[Anonymous No.5756301]

>>5756280
Glad to see them crashing and burning lately. They deserve it for ruining videogames.

[Anonymous No.5756302]

>>5756278
with just cds alone, they still probably lose to sony.
if they had treated third parties better when they were on top AND switched to cds, then yes, they would have won.

[Anonymous No.5756332]

>>5755153
>develop at a lower cost on CD, which can fit so much gameplay content, even redbook audio, voice acting, and video sequences
>develop at a higher cost on a format that is severely limited in those capacities, and can at best do compromised equivalents if you spend more money on the cartridges
Also I believe the PSX came with one memory card, while for the N64 memory cards were a separate peripheral.

[Anonymous No.5756335]

>>5756301
This promises to be entertaining. How did Sony ruin videogames?

[Anonymous No.5756338]

>>5756030
Programming for 2D was way easier on PS and Saturn. Also used way less resources when running the game.
>>5755570
Lol. First time I heard N64 was aimed for non-Japanese and JRPG's are only popular in Japan.

[Anonymous No.5756375]

>>5756198
IIRC he might have said that BEFORE Final Fantasy VII came out. His opposition to RPGs is the reason why they weren't on the system in the first place.

[Anonymous No.5756460]

>>5756332
PS1 didnt come with memory card and most games on N64 did not need a one.

[Anonymous No.5756471]

>>5756460
>most games on N64 did not need a one.
most of the third-party games needed one, zoom zoom.

[Anonymous No.5756510]

>>5754997
The best, most honest answer I can give is the cart format.
Imagine trying to squeeze FFVII onto carts, and maintain the same quality sound, video and graphics, while keeping your product's cost at a level people will still pay.

I know some wannabe techy nerd boi will jump up my ass over this, but it's true. Modern tech is different. I can fit the entire PSX library onto a $60 SD card now.
Back then, a cart that could hold one longer game with decent sound and lots of fmvs would have put you into the $100 or more range. And not many people would have paid for it when the PSX version cost $40-$50.

[Anonymous No.5756634]

>>5756335
By snuffing Sega and Nintendo (who are actual videogame makers) and shilling moviegames instead of real games.

[Anonymous No.5756636]

>>5754997
Because jRPGs aren't good

[Anonymous No.5756642]

>>5755145
Final Fantasy 7 isn't even the best Final Fantasy game, let alone the best game ever made.

[Anonymous No.5756862]

>>5754997
> The genre evolved to heavily using FMVs and/or voice overs to tell the story, and that wouldn't fit on cartridges.
> Nintendo's extortion policies drove away 3rd party developers.

Combination of the above.

[Anonymous No.5756898]

Because jarpigs are haram.

[Anonymous No.5756912]

>>5756634
Hi Moviebob.

[Anonymous No.5756913]

>>5756634
Nintendo came out fine, and Sega snuffed themselves.

[Anonymous No.5756917]

>>5756634
>By snuffing Sega
sega did it to themselves because of their own stupidity.
>Nintendo (who are actual videogame makers)
bing bing wahoooooooo!!!

[Anonymous No.5756930]

>>5756634
Movie games like Doom, Quake, Castlevania Chronicles, Chrono Trigger, Simcity 2000, Diablo, Super Streetfighter 3 Alfa, Crash Bandicoot, etc, etc
Meanwhile, Sega made an entire peripheral which was primarily advertised with shit games pretending they were movies.

You fucking retard, you cocksucker, who sucks cock.

[Anonymous No.5756950]

>>5754997
Probably the same reason it didn't have any good anything.

[Anonymous No.5757078]

>>5756917
nice /v/ rhetoric.
Try not paying that much attention to e-celebs who think they know what happened to Sega, and try not to be a teenager who thinks he's too mature for "kiddy" video games. All video games are for kids, especially the Rated M ones.

[Anonymous No.5757082]

>>5756930
>Super Streetfighter 3 Alfa
Awful Playstation port missing lots of frames, while Saturn version of Alpha 3 is the best home port, even better than Dreamcast.
Playstation fanboys are usually the worst, and it's kinda funny seeing this being confirmed day by day, especially because it's obvious you're not being ironic.
Also
>Chrono Trigger
>on PS1
Not too sure if you're not being ironic now.

[Anonymous No.5757250]

>>5757082
The argument is if they're trying to be movies or not, you dyslexic. Sega tried to cash in on the FMV craze with a machine that could only just BARELY do the games, while the craze had mostly died down by the time the Playstation was ready.

>>5757078
He's right though, the 32X was an atrocious idea that lost them mountains of money, customer goodwill, and kneecapped the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.5757260]

>>5756930
>Crash Bandicoot
hugo > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > poochie the dog

[Anonymous No.5757274]

>>5757078
>complains about rhetoric
>unironically says "e-celeb"

[Anonymous No.5757281]

>>5756460
>PS1 didnt come with memory card

Sold separately, but you still needed it

[Anonymous No.5757334]

>>5756642
cope

[Anonymous No.5757346]

>>5756278
No way, Nintendo used to force companies to make Nintendo exclusives, Nintendo could be so bad even that they notoriously told Square to, "never come back" after making a deal with Sony. It also was cut short due to the speed with which the second era arrived, which Nintendo wasn't ready for either and made the Gamecube fail as well which was a disc-based system and practically what the Nintendo 64 would have been.
Sony sold their system as a cheap DVD player as well, something Nintedo never did. Sony's other DVD players were still very expensive back then, so many people bought the Playstation simply as a DVD player, which worked the system into many people's homes, which served as a foot in the door for Sony to get newcomers to try out video games.

Nintendo also took too long to release their games, as well as marketing young children while the avid fans were older now and wanted more mature games. Resident Evil and Sony were seen as the rise of mature gaming in 1996, you have to imagine going from the SNES to playing Resident evil.
Nintendo 64 also had Super Mario and Pilot Wings 64 as launch titles, after which gamers had to wait months for any other titles. Nintendo still did really well and won the '96 Christmas however, with strong releases and Super Mario 64 becoming a bestseller.
But after that it all went downhill and Nintendo had to struggle to return profit, which simply never stopped, Nintendo spent copious amounts of time and money trying to rectify the Nintendo 64's cartridge system, but there were tons of other problems that were pressing just the same.

The arrival of a big company like Sony alone was enough for companies to prefer Sony's business model and move away from Nintendo anyway. Companies were dying for young blood, and many companies had attempted to cut out Nintendo and be their own thing, Sony juat had the money and the people to make it work. People trusted Sony before the Nintendo 64 existed.

[Anonymous No.5757349]

>>5754997
>Final Fantasy Se-
oh wait
get N or get out? more like get N n get BTFO

[Anonymous No.5757353]

>>5757346
The whole "nintendo is draconian" shit from the NES era wasn't a thing anymore. Devs made games exclusive to Nintendo as they did to Sony. Exclusives always existed.
>Nintendo also took too long to release their games, as well as marketing young children while the avid fans were older now and wanted more mature games.
While true that Nintendo is more family-oriented (wouldn't say kid-only), N64 was definitely aimed at teens and young adults with the abundance of fighting games (KI gold and MK Trilogy were hyped back then. MKT was originally announced as an N64 exclusive) and racing games, as well as sports games.
N64 was a college console, people would play goldeneye and shit. PS1 was more of the loner RPG guy except for stuff like Crash racing or some fighters like tekken. N64 was definitely more common at college dorms.

[Anonymous No.5757354]

>>5757349
Why was that such a big deal? Seems like weebshit to my imo.

[Anonymous No.5757364]

>>5757354
Sony financed FF7's ad campaign in the west. That was likely the deal that ultimately convinced Square to jump ship.
The game was the introduction to JRPGs for many people and is quite memorable, although if you're familiar with the genre, it's just a good game, not necessarily the best in its own series.

[Anonymous No.5757453]

>>5757353
Exclusives were far more common, but at the same time Nintendo maintained a very strict model for what a company must do to work with Nintendo, and Nintendo has always been notorious to work with as a fiscally and technologically conservative company, even today. Games are an unpredictable market, and Nintendo's solution is often to stick to the tried and true method, this creates tension between Nintendo and other companies.
Gaming is w market that is also about technological innovation and growth, which is why Nintendo doesn't care much about graphics, and picks affordable and very stable hardware for their devices, because they prefer things to stay the same.

And Nintendo was still bossing companies around in the SNES era, look at Super Mario JRPG, which was supposed to be a fantasy JRPG like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, but Nintendo refused everything Square suggested unless it stayed as close to the Mario franchise as they possibly could. This kind of behavior didn't do them any favors in the Nintendo 64 era.

And Nintendo isn't a system for children, but that's what people called it and where the phrase kiddie system came from
This stigma happened before the Nintendo 64 and Playstation released, Nintendo was launching with Super Mario 64 and Pilot Wing 64, while Sony launched with Battle Arena Toshiden which became a killer app in Japan, Twisted Metal, and a heap of other games that were all more or less very graphic.
Sony also tended to advertise their games with graphical ads with mature themes such as blood, sex, and even fetishism, even for games that had very little to do with any of these themes. It was a tactic Sony used to sell their console all the time, playing in on the fact that Nintendo was seen as sort of childish in appearance, the means of playing the games that reminded people of the NES/SNES era from when they were little, and platformers that were also reminiscent of people's childhood.

[Anonymous No.5757459]

>>5757453
Yeah, I know about Sony's tactics, it was just following what Sega was already doing.
Nintendo also had their own "edgy" marketing shticks during the 90s in the west, though.
But the fact remains that N64 was far more common at college dorms and teens/young adults parties than PS1.
Quickly after Mario 64 and Pilotwings came Killer Instinct Gold, Driving USA and Mortal Kombat Trilogy.

[Anonymous No.5757472]

>>5757459
For sure, but Sony managed to get the Japanese market with Square, the home market with their built-in DVD player, every other company with the cost of CD production, and Sony's (then) very open business model that gave companies plenty of room to come up with new ideas.

Teenagers and kids absolutely loved the Nintendo 64 and look back on it very fondly, which won Nintendo the stigma of being a company for kids. But I'm not arguing against the importance of the Nintendo 64, it did many things for the first time and managed to create things we still see today to make uo for what it lacked elsewhere, such as console FPS games, good and self-aware collectatons, accessible fighting games, easy to play fighting games, 3D staples with OoT and MM, solidify kart games, and popularize ensemble games. The Nintendo 64 was a failure compared to the PSX, but it turned profit and is one of the most important consoles to gaming ever made.

[Anonymous No.5757484]

>>5757459
That's a good ad for both 90s gaudiness and to address the fact that literally no Goemon games were released in NA sans a single SNES release

[Anonymous No.5757496]

>>5757484
That ad is for the 2nd N64 Goemon. But still, it has returning characters from goemon 3 which wasn't released in the west, so the plot was still confusing in that regard.

[Anonymous No.5757972]

>>5757354
>how could there be any other demographic but mine?

[Anonymous No.5757974]

>>5757496
Ah, my mistake. You're right, the series is still full of holes so it works.

[Anonymous No.5758015]

>>5756375
>IIRC he might have said that BEFORE Final Fantasy VII came out
but after Square decided not to develop for N64.
>His opposition to RPGs is the reason why they weren't on the system in the first place.
backwards rationalization
They committed to cartridges and a restrictive development model that most 3rd parties didn't like, including all of the major JRPG developers (Square being the most notable). When they all told Nintendo bugger off, Nintendo's response was "well JRPGs suck anyway!"

Sour grapes.

[Anonymous No.5758019]

>>5757346
>Sony's other DVD players were still very expensive back then, so many people bought the Playstation simply as a DVD player
PS1 wasn't a DVD player, only CDs. People bought PS2 to play DVDs but not PS1.

[Anonymous No.5758029]

>>5757459
>But the fact remains that N64 was far more common at college dorms and teens/young adults parties than PS1.
More common at parties? Yes but mostly only Goldeneye, Madden 64, and Mario Kart 64.
More common in dorm rooms? Playstation by far.

t. did tech support for student computers from 1998-2001 and was in a LOT of dorm rooms.

[Anonymous No.5758246]

>>5758029
>from 1998-2001
Fair enough, I was mostly talking 1996-98.

[Anonymous No.5758272]

I'm so glad I had the 64 as a kid, and so never accustomed to countless hours of cutscenes and loading times.

[Anonymous No.5758289]

>>5758272
It's a great kids console due to all the collectathon scotformers, but a shit teenager/adult console.

>too impatient to sit through some loading times
Zoomer detected.

[Anonymous No.5758290]

>>5758289
>Zoomer
>>/v/

[Anonymous No.5758308]

>>5758289
Enjoying loading times IS a zoomer trait.

[Anonymous No.5758318]

>>5754997
Because the available data space on the carts is not too great. A compact disc held 700mb and even then a good amount of jrpgs were multi-disc affairs.

[Anonymous No.5758417]

>>5755316
:/

[Anonymous No.5758512]

>>5757334
>t. hurt

[Anonymous No.5758523]

>>5758318
To be fair though, the really large files were the music and the FMVs, and games like FF7 are where FMVs really hit the limelight.

[Anonymous No.5758539]

>>5755223
sonygger

[Anonymous No.5758747]

>>5758015
You're the one who's got it backwards. If Nintendo had any intention to have RPGs on the system they would have made some themselves. They also would have designed the hardware to accommodate for the genre.

[Anonymous No.5758871]

>>5758747
if it really makes you feel better

[Anonymous No.5759313]

>>5758272
I liked it enough as a kid, Super Mario 64, Goldeneye, Mario Party 2, these games were barrels of fun, but the games were pricey and I just never got any more bought for me.

A few years later, my big brother comes home with a Playstation he bought cheap from a friend, and he had some fucking cool-ass games for it, Resident Evil 3, Castlevania Chronicles, Castlevania Symphony of The Night, and so on.
It was a worn console, wouldn't read discs unless you propped the thing up sideways, but as long as it was left sitting like that, it ran.

I realized there was a lot of good games I missed out on, cool stuff I hadn't seen on other consoles at that time, and my brother got them for cheap, which I certainly couldn't for N64 games.
He also got a PS2 one day, and that had some great games as well. As my mom didn't want to buy a Gamecube, I was infinitely thankful to get to play PS2 games.

[Anonymous No.5759316]

>>5758747
>sour grapes by proxy
You need to grow out of consolewarring.

[Anonymous No.5759332]

why make an n64 game when you can keep releasing super famicom games in late 1999?

[Anonymous No.5761712]

Before Final Fantasy VII, Square developed every game of the Final Fantasy series for the Nintendo consoles. When Nintendo released the Nintendo 64, Square was skeptical of its cartridge system; cartridges cost more to produce and had less storage space than a CD-Rom. Considering the costs of their new project, Square had to make a hard decision and announced on January 12th, 1996 that they would only develop for Sony consoles from now on. This policy remained in place until the release of Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, in 2003.

https://www.giantbomb.com/playstation/3045-22/

[Anonymous No.5761990]

>>5754997
>Why didn't this console have any good games?
FTFY

[Anonymous No.5761994]

>>5761990
sonygger...

[Anonymous No.5762052]

>>5756248
>512Mb
this always gets me

[Anonymous No.5762058]

whats the difference between midi music and tracker music

[Anonymous No.5762205]

>>5754997
Because Nintendo tanked that generation for themselves by autistically clinging to cartridges and making the system unnecessarily difficult to develop for. That's why the N64 catalog is pure shit, with the first party titles being the only ones that are even remotely playable. Meanwhile, PSX was easy to develop for, and used CD-ROM which attracted more third party devs.

[Anonymous No.5762216]

>>5755061
>harvest moon
>rpg

[Anonymous No.5762217]

>>5762205
>That's why the N64 catalog is pure shit, with the first party titles being the only ones that are even remotely playable
Explore the catalogue a bit more, but given that you have anti-nintendo pics on your PC, you're probably just biased.

[Anonymous No.5762221]

>>5761990
Jesus. That line of thinking was sad almost 25 years ago

[Anonymous No.5762230]

>the nintoddler copes itt

[TrekkiesUnite118 No.5762237]

>>5759332
To add insult to injury, the actual boxed cartridge version released in 2000.

Nintendo themselves found it more worthwhile to keep making those kind of games on the SNES instead of the N64 2 years after the Dreamcast released and when the PS2 was a month or 2 a way.

[Anonymous No.5762243]

>the obsessed snoytranny itt

[Anonymous No.5762710]

>>5756338
>Programming for 2D was way easier on PS and Saturn. Also used way less resources when running the game.
The way that the N64 renders 2D games is literally identical to the way PS1 does it. The features that enable the N64 to render 3D more accurately than PS1 don't come into play at all when doing 2D games. There's literally no need to z-buffer when you don't have a z-axis and there's no need to do 3D perspective correction when there's no 3D perspective.

The reason N64 barely had any 2D games is purely on economic factors for developers. Developers generally only made games for N64 if they wanted to do 3D stuff that would be too tricky to pull off on PS1 and Saturn.

>>5755570
>You could render 2D without touching the RSP, and the N64 had some 2D-specific microcodes
Technically speaking you didn't need the 2D specific microcodes but they were just there to make the programming even easier than PS1 by directly replicating SNES PPU functions. Don't think it was ever used though.

>>5756081
IIRC the N64 prototype used by Square during the early stages of FF7 development had a terrible rendering bug that reduced performance by like 80% compared to the final silicon. The bug wasn't even fully fixed and Rare discovered that it was still present under certain rendering circumstances though unlikely to seriously affect game development.

FF7 battles aren't even very technically sophisticated. All of the character models are only gouraud shaded, no textures at all.

>>5756093
>the z-buffer cut fillrate by somewhere around half
Technically speaking, the N64's GPU is capable of single-cycle z-buffering, so the z-buffer doesn't directly reduce fill rate. The fill rate gets reduced indirectly due to the z-buffer overloading memory bandwidth.

>unlike the PSX it doesn't have dedicated audio hardware, so it will eat into the CPU time
You can also process music on the GPU's vector unit RSP, which is probably the N64's fastest component.

[Anonymous No.5762717]

>>5762237
What insult/injury? The SNES was a more than capable machine for that type of game, it's never too late to release a good game. As someone who posts on /vr/ you should know that better than most.

[Anonymous No.5762729]

>>5754997
Not popular in Japan

[Anonymous No.5762731]

>>5755145
>tfw in the 90s you could've been a vidya marketer instead of a 4chan shitposter

[Anonymous No.5762737]

>>5762731
or a game journalist

[Anonymous No.5762763]

>>5756338
>Lol. First time I heard N64 was aimed for non-Japanese
Nintendo invited no Japanese developers to be part of the "Dream Team" lineup. It was all British and American devs.

[Anonymous No.5762907]

>>5762717

The insult/injury being that not even Nintendo felt it was worthwhile to release those kind of games on the N64.

Yeah, it's never to late to release a good game, but I think we can all agree that we would have all raised our eyebrows and said "huh?" if say Sony decided to release a major entry into one of their major first party franchises for the PS2 a few months before the PS4 released.

[Anonymous No.5763042]

>>5756261
>Jarpigs aren't hugely CPU intensive
FFVII's CPU requirements are likely on par with any other game as far as combat is concerned. You can even see by FFIX, it was straining the hardware

[Anonymous No.5763678]

>>5758289
loading times suck dumbass they were annoying even then

[Anonymous No.5763716]

>>5762737
I get why he is calling his parents retarded but saying he inherited it from them just seems gratuitous - the kid was smart enough to know he needed a SNES. The idea that there could be a converter wasn't that dumb, if they used the same CPU it could make sense. Obviously we know they don't, hurr a 8 year old kid without the internet may not have access to that information.

[Anonymous No.5763735]

>>5757346
>Nintendo also took too long to release their games, as well as marketing young children while the avid fans were older now
Avid fans of what?

[Anonymous No.5764940]

>>5756062
The RE2 port required lots of resources, effort, time, and money to achieve the final results (2 CDs on a 64MB cartridge). Resources had to be poured into downgrading the video (video that has VARIABLE bit rates PER SHOT), creating all new textures, compressing backgrounds/recorded audio, and creating an ENTIRELY NEW music library system to handle sampled music. While the team of the RE2 port had the time and money to do all these things, other studios weren't that willing to pour monumental efforts to pull off high effort PS1 to N64 conversions.

Here is a link to a DF Retro video about RE2 (including the ports) (my link skips ahead to when John starts talking about the N64 port):
https://youtu.be/9J716rqAPCU?t=892

>>5756278
Not certain if Nintendo would've won the 5th gen but they would've gotten much closer to Sony if they had, at the very least, released a reasonably priced CD/DD drive add on very early on in the N64's life (if they hadn't downright built in a CD drive to the N64). It would make developers a bit more hesitant to switch to Sony (many more third party games as a result) by removing one of the main developmental complaints about the N64. The expanded catalog of third party games would give the N64 a wider variety of genres and allow Nintendo to close the gap between its catalog size and the PlayStation's.

[Anonymous No.5764948]

>>5763042
PS1 is like barely more powerful than a snes

[Anonymous No.5764956]

Has anyone 101% on donkey kong 64

[Anonymous No.5764983]

>>5757459
>Goemon's Great Adventure
>Hot tub
Those cheeky cunts

[Anonymous No.5765192]

Look, I love the N64, but why is it so hard to admit for some people that it failed in many regards, which held it back from being better?
The amount of games to play on it are fairly limited, to the average gamer the controller is garbage, and the cartridge system tends to make collecting for it expensive even to this day.

it's an amazing system, a total hidden gem device, but it's faulty and did many things horribly wrong, just admit it.

[Anonymous No.5765206]

>>5764940
I'm surprised Capcom were willing to go through this Herculean effort to port the game.

[Anonymous No.5765210]

>>5764948
I'd like to see a snes run tomb raider

[Anonymous No.5765506]

>>5763042
FFIX might not have been straining the CPU, but the GPU or RAM. Without doing a performance analysis of the game you can’t usually know what the bottleneck is.

[Anonymous No.5765535]

>>5765210
You'd end up with...basically Prince of Persia.

[Anonymous No.5765536]

>>5765192
>and the cartridge system tends to make collecting for it expensive even to this day
I can't fault it for durability though, N64s are very solid systems while PS1s were flaky pieces of shit. It's probably the single most reliable Nintendo console.

[Anonymous No.5765638]

Nintendo was also late to the party once again, the N64 was launched in December 96, more than two years after the PS1 and Saturn had debuted.

[Anonymous No.5765675]

>>5765506
sure but let's not presume that >>5756261 did that analysis either when asserting that jrpgs aren't cpu-intensive.

[Anonymous No.5765676]

>>5765206
They pulled it off because they had to get help from Factor 5 and Angel Studios.

[Anonymous No.5765726]

In any game, the actual code portion is pretty small, usually around 20-25% of the total size, the rest all being sound, graphics, and level data. So RE64 was 64MB but you figure no more than 15 or so MB was code.

[Anonymous No.5765740]

>>5756240
Again though, the vast, vast majority of that was taken up by music and FMV. The typical PS1 game had about 30MB of code.

[Anonymous No.5765753]

>>5756302
Namco had collaborated with Atari to produce unlicensed NES games because they hated Nintendo for their arrogance.

[Anonymous No.5765773]

>>5765638
It came out in June (jap) and September 1996 (US) and March 1997 (eu), dumbfuck

[Anonymous No.5765796]

>>5765773
That's still very nearly two years behind the other two consoles.

[Anonymous No.5765804]

>>5758246
>>5757459
You're still full of shit by assuming N64 was popular with college dudebros thanks to Mario 64 and in the like during its early years. Goldeneye was what kicked off the N64 being popular with dudebros and other normalfags.
>>5755316
No one in their right mind would want to have pause a game, switch inputs on their TV, play a tape, then stop the tape, switch inputs to the game, and do it over and over during a 40 hour game. Doubly so if they replay a game and have to wear the tape out.

[Anonymous No.5765827]

>>5765536
It's easily the most reliable Nintendo system. A lot of NES systems won't play games anymore thanks to that shitty front loading design. The SNES has it's VRAM and PPU failures that seem to get more and more common by the day. GameCube and Wii are pretty solid but they lose points for having moving parts that are bound to fail in the future. Wii U is pretty good for the most part but with the system being reliant on the gamepad only time will tell. The Switch is a piece of shit hardware wise. The Joy Cons are garbage and get stick drift if you breathe on them wrong and will desync randomly, the screen scratches really easily, laughable internal memory, and the system itself often bends or becomes warped.

[Anonymous No.5765963]

>>5765804
>You're still full of shit by assuming N64 was popular with college dudebros thanks to Mario 64 and in the like during its early years.
>early years
>years
Goldeneye came out in 1997, so barely a year after the console's launch. N64 released in september '96 in USA.
Also, there were other games before, like Cruisin' USA and some sports titles.
Speaking of that, PS1 also wasn't too hot during its early days, there was Tekken and Ridge Racer, little else. Games like FF VII and MGS came out years after the system's launch.

[Anonymous No.5765974]

>>5765827
>The SNES has it's VRAM and PPU failures that seem to get more and more common by the day
That's apparently only the original SHVC models though.

[Anonymous No.5767762]

>>5764956
I have 5 times, no doctor I'm not insane why do you ask?

[Anonymous No.5767776]

>>5754997
black people

[Anonymous No.5768093]

>>5762737
Fucking roasted

[Anonymous No.5768258]

>>5762737
>>5763716
What makes this segment even better is that companies have made adaptors to play Megadrive games on a SNES and vice versa since a few years ago so if only that kid had been born a decade or two later he could've seen his dream come true.

Or he could've just emulated of course, like what most people would do but this wouldn't be /vr/ if the people here would cry about it being inferior to the original experience that the developers intended or something.

[Anonymous No.5768270]

>>5762237
To be fair the Super Famicom wasn't doing too badly in japan, even in the late 90s so it's kinda what the Vita is nowadays that it's basically not really supported anymore (in the West at least, I don't know how it currently is in Japan) but there's still an audience left for it so why not squeeze some money outta them while they can? Just because the Playstation, the Saturn and the Dreamcast were more popular doesn't mean that nobody played SFCs anymore.

It's much sadder to see how the N64 and the Gamecube were instantly dropped the moment that Nintendo released their last 1st party releases on them. Not to mention the Wii U which is basically Nintendo's Sega Saturn at this point.

[Anonymous No.5768294]

>>5762237
>>5759332
Why not though? The SNES was nine years old at the time and for comparison the NES was nine in 1992 and still getting some major game releases.

[Logos !Oeinw7tpRQ No.5768341]

>>5754997
It had based Paper Mario at least.

[Anonymous No.5768575]

>>5754997
>>5755013
Wow, this long post came 8 minutes after the OP post.
I'm so certain someone different posted this instead of some samefag starting some random shit on the board.
I mean, this IS /vr/, after all, it's one of the fastest moving boards on 4chan!

[Anonymous No.5768581]

>>5768294
While true, the NES was still strongly supported by Nintendo and getting AAA games almost to the end, while they basically abandoned the SNES outside Japan its final years.

[Anonymous No.5768598]

Biggest problem with the SNES, at least back in the day, was that half the worthwhile games for the thing were never localized. Sega was much more willing to take chances on weird Japanese shit. You actually got SRPGs, like Langrisser, Master of Monsters, and Dark Wizard. And even VNs. I had an N64, but got burned even worse with the no-games bullshit. Most of the games worth playing were first party, but Nintendo took for god damned ever to release anything.

[Anonymous No.5770087]

>>5765804
>You're still full of shit by assuming N64 was popular with college dudebros thanks to Mario 64 and in the like during its early years
I never said that. It was always Goldeneye and Madden 64.

[Anonymous No.5770425]

>>5762737
>tfw your parents got called retarded in a video game magazine forever

[Anonymous No.5770430]

>>5754997
It'll always amaze me that Nintendo went all out for the 3D processor, but then severely handicapped the N64 by going with carts instead of CDs.

[Anonymous No.5770435]

>>5770430
It was the right call.

[Anonymous No.5770470]

>>5755312
Ah yes, FF 91. Best in the series.

[Anonymous No.5770473]

>>5770435
Handing over practically every third party to create their biggest rival, which they paid to create out of their own pocket, was the right move? The same rival that has handily trounced them in sales for 3 of the 4 generations they have competed in? Weird definition of right you have.

[Anonymous No.5770485]

I was content to play my NES and SNES well into the 64/Playstation era. I only went to the PS when I had played FF7 at a friends. I've always been behind in my system purchases because I'm still a S/J/Rpger and good ones are getting so much harder to find anymore.

[Anonymous No.5770667]

>>5755013
>>5755312
>>5757346
>>5757353
>>5757453
>>5761712
>>5762205

For the problem of the Nintendo 64 it is necessary to go back to the time of the Sony / Nintendo contract.

In the book "La Révolution Playstation" (a book I can't find in English) by Ryoji Akagawa (Sony's producer of Arc The Lad, Equinox, Motor Toon), he recounts that era.

He says that one day the people (lawyers?) having negotiated the contract with Nintendo returned conquering, with closed contracts too good to be true. To the point that Ken Kutaragi did not believe Nintendo could accept that!
And that did not fail since later Hiroshi Yamauchi put an end to it.

We will probably never know the real reason for this break, but I had read some that it was mostly for reasons of royalties.
For the games published on Nes and Snes, Nintendo would have asked for 14% of roaylaties, and Sega just lined up below at 12-13%.

Then around 1992 Sony arrives, and the contract negotiated for the Snes Play Station would have asked 21% royalties on the games (in addition to the 14% of Nintendo, here is the price of games after ...), VideoCD and Karaoke for Sony !!
Yamauchi cancels the contract.

Ken Kutaragi takes over the Playstation and negotiates the royalties with the publishers himself.
Taking advantage of the CD it only requires 7% royalties!
While Nintendo remains on 14% and Sega on 13%!

[Anonymous No.5770669]

>>5770667
>muh Nintendo is conservative with cartridges
It is false and true at the same time.
The reason why Nintendo had agreed to partner with Sony was for the quality of its CD player.
Because the first player (Sega-CD, PC-Engine CD etc ...) were very long to load, and that Yamauchi did not want it.
But Sony are the first to use RAM to halve the load time, enough to convince Yamauchi to switch to the CD and make the Snes Play Station.
And so Sony could have been the CD player provider for future Nintendo, as is Yamaha with Sega or as is Samsung for Xbox.
So who else besides Sony can provide a CD player as powerful ??
Nobody.

Since Nintendo got closer to Philips, but it did not give anything since the Philips player was as slow as the others (Sega CD etc ...).
Did you see the loading times of Philips CD-I games? Can you imagine that on N64 ??
so Nintendo was forced to go back to the cartridges.

After the only question was why not make N64 directly with Disk Zip 64DD (and Famicom Disk)?
They already had the technology.