/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5740942]

These games as a single player experience, were in every way worse than the previous releases. What were they thinking?

[Anonymous No.5740961]

It was the beginning of casualising the franchise

[Anonymous No.5740969]

>>5740961
It's the first time I've played them since many years ago, I'm at the very end and I just am so annoyed right now with it

>some choice Pokemon of their type can't be evolved because they don't make evolutionary stones available in the game outside of some really contrived random shit
>made the HM problem somehow far worse than the first game, making you have to constantly use someone with cut and flash over and over and over even though the moves are useless

It got worse in ways, didn't fix some problems and in fact made them stand out even worse, the only way it improved on the the first gen was by adding dark moves and making item management easier....but they could have easily improved so much more but instead made it such a chore

[Anonymous No.5740985]

>>5740942
They really, really weren't. Fuck off you contrarian fucktard. I had a blast with it even back when I played it with just the English patch, that "translated" nothing but the names.

[Anonymous No.5740987]

>>5740961
>casualizing fucking pokemon
lmao fucking listen to yourself
There was nothing more casual than 1st gen pokemon, every single retarded child was able to play this.

[Anonymous No.5740997]

>>5740985
Yes they really were.
>make some of the key pokemon unable to be evolved
>instead of remedying the HM problem by getting rid of useless ones or limiting them to specific uses, expand it by making you constantly need to use flash and cut just for every new area you enter no matter how brief

It did nothing better than the G1 games, other than item management and the fact that dark moves hurt psychic OP fucks, but those are minor improvements compared to what would have been the major improvements and the lack thereof that equaled major fucking flaws

[Anonymous No.5741006]

>>5740961
A game that is based on the IRL past time of Japanese kids running around and collecting beetles, was always for "casuals"..what the fuck are you talking about? Apart from simulators and twitch shooters, all games are for casuals you fucking tool.

[Anonymous No.5741029]

>>5740942
There is pokemon board please use that for pokemon discussion.

[Anonymous No.5741046]

>>5740997
it did everything better than the gen 1 games, a game is not just a checklist of features. you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.5741060]

>>5741029
No.

[Anonymous No.5741076]

The biggest sin the games committed really was sealing a lot of the Johto mons in the postgame and not bothering to give the Johto gym leaders Johto mons as their signature pokemon. Want to know why Whitney's Miltank pushing your shit in was so damn memorable? Because it was a new mon wrecking your shit. On the other hand, the game gave us more waifubait so I'm good.

Tl:dr Needed more of the new goddamn pokemon in the new pokemon game.

[Anonymous No.5741078]

>>5741046
>have to use flash to finish the game for no good reason at all

No it's shit.

[Anonymous No.5741138]

>>5740942
The worst parts about Gen2 was adding way too many HMs so your party of 6 pokemon suddenly becomes 5 pokemon plus the HM whore. This shitty as fuck trend continued for generations and ruined every single water starter as most HMs are water based.
Also the special split was done haphazardly with little concern for balance. Certain pokemon like Gyarados and and Totodile are worthless because of their inability to use good moves. It needed to be done but it wasn't truly fixed until gen4.
The fix to crit chance was something that was also needed but it ended up doing more harm than good. Bread and butter moves like Razor Leaf went from slightly OP to straight trash. Totodile could have been good if he was allowed to use the broken Slash move like Charizard before him, instead its hugely underwhelming.

From what I understand much of Gen2 was planned for Gen1 but a combination of spaghetti code and production issues lead to much of it getting cut and later re-used for the sequel. What made gen1 great was a messy accident. Nothing was done with any real consideration or foresight into the consequences.

[Anonymous No.5743659]

>>5740961
Nope, Gen 1 was even easier.

[Anonymous No.5743729]

>>5740942
>vpfags hate anything pre gen3
>vrfags hate anything post gen1
wow. also what happened to this board? it feels like v+pol.

[Anonymous No.5744107]

Let's take a moment to appreciate the hide thread option.

[Anonymous No.5745954]

>>5740942
They had more of an end game than gen 1 though. Breeding and the battle tower give you something to do once you finish the main quests. Trainer re-fights fixes the issue with the lack of money for end game. Berry collecting gives you something to do daily. Shiny hunting also added a heap to the end game. Crystal had battle tower too which was great. The time based events were fun too, like the rooftop shop on certain days, certain poke's appearing at certain times of the day, the bug catching contest, etc.

Gen 1 is still my favorite, but gen 2 clearly had a lot more single player end game content.

[Anonymous No.5745990]

>>5743659

Your movepool in the original games is just as limited as Blue's, and you're guaranteed to be outleveled because everything in Victory Road is in the low 40s. Even then, that Alakazam is the standard competitive set but with Psybeam over Thunder Wave.

[Anonymous No.5746101]

>>5740969
Almost every single cave which requires Flash is optional. The only exception from it is Mt. Silver (admittedly it sucks but it's nowhere near common you make it out to be).
Whirlpool and Waterfall have to be used like once each and maybe 2 more times for optional shit.

>>5741138
Special split and crit system did more good than bad. The former nerfed some absolutely overpowered Pokemon. Also, you are delusional if you think 79 special attack combined with 95 BP is worthless. On the other hand, crit system is much better. Handful of moves becoming weaker don't matter on a bigger scale. Pokemon having 20%+ crit chance right from the start was ridiculous.


>>5745990
You can use TMs unlike Blue.

[Anonymous No.5746371]

>>5745990
Most Champions do outlevel what you are at without grinding by 5-10 levels. Lance in GSC has a level 50 Dragonite as his ace while your pokemon are probably around the low 40s. Three Dragonites were also very tough as good Ice types are hard to come by in GSC. Ice Beam was not a TM in GS and was a postgame tutor move in Crystal on specific days. The only options were the weaker Ice Punch, Blizzard with low accuracy or maybe one of your pokemon learned Aurora Beam. If Dragonite survives the hit because of the level gap Lance can hit back with an Outrage, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder or Hyper Beam. Dragonite's other weakness Rock type moves are also elusive in GSC as only Sudowoodo has rock slide before the Elite 4 without breeding. Using Dragon type moves was not a very good option as well. With the strongest move being Dragon Breath with a TM. If you wanted STAB on that you needed to use something that would also be weak to Lance's Dragonites. Lance's moveset were also very strong, his Aerodactyl even had Rock Slide which is not obtainable at all on Aerodactyl in Generation 2. Blue only has 1 pokemon with no easy solution and while Alakazam is powerful in Generation 1. Other Psychic types or pokemon with a high special stat can take a hit and fire back at Alakazam through it's paper thin defenses. I didn't even mention the battle against Red with his pokemon that are 20 levels above what you would have at that point in the game.

[Anonymous No.5746552]

>>5740969
All the evolution stones except sum stones and moon stones are locked behind post-game because game freak wanted to enforce the new split evolutions like politoed and bellossom

[Anonymous No.5746575]

>>5746552
You can get them in Crystal through trainers with the Pokegear but it's still rather hard to get.

[Anonymous No.5746580]

>>5746575
In HGSS you can buy them with points at the pokeathlon, but you can only redeem them on certain days.

[Anonymous No.5746581]

>>5746552
>force players to use the new pokemon Politoed and Bellosom
>make every other Johto pokemon rare as shit and fill the entire game with kanto pokemon everywhere
Game Freak.

[Anonymous No.5746610]

>>5740942
they were better experiences, so youre wrong about that. R/B/Y were also great games, dont get me wrong.
My main criticism of Gen 2 is that the carts died after a few years because of the battery.

That, and the fact that actually catching a lot of the new Pokemon was unnecessarily difficult. Skarmory, to my knowledge, is in ONE patch of grass, south of Blackthorn City, and is about Level 37. Donphan is similar. Dunsparce appears in one part of the game, only at times when a Hiker phones you. Same goes for Yanma. Aipom and Smeargle are difficult to find, and Larvitar is a nightmare to catch.

All in all, the new pokemon were about as tricky as Legendaries were in Gen 1. That ruffled me at the time, and a lot of them weren't even that good as fighters anyway.

[Anonymous No.5746894]

>Day and Night cycle
>Consideration for days of the week
>Two new types
>100 new Pokemon
>The entirety of Kanto included
>Interface thoroughly improved
>Fixes a huge amount of bugs that plagued Red
>Made the special stat not a god stat
>Better difficulty curve
>Better visuals and mechanics overall

There is nothing Red did better than Gold

[Anonymous No.5747103]

>>5746101
>Almost every single cave which requires Flash is optional. The only exception from it is Mt. Silver (admittedly it sucks but it's nowhere near common you make it out to be).

Cut had to be used a lot too, especially once getting into Kanto, really annoying to constantly have to run to a Pokecenter to pull out an HM slave with cut just to shelf a Pokemon I'm TRYING to train while traveling through the new trainers along the way
>>5746371
> Three Dragonites were also very tough as good Ice types are hard to come by in GSC
I oddly had no issue with it....my Feralligatr or whatever basically one hit KO the Dragonites with ice punch, and I used thundershock on the Gyaradose and Charizard and razorleaf on the Aerodactyl, Lance was a breeze for me

>>5746610
>>5746894
They improved some things, but they could have improved far more that would have made the game less annoying to get through and considering they had retrospect on their side, it shouldn't have been hard to do...even as a kid I remember thinking like "why didn't they just make moves like cut and flash special abilities instead of actual moves, or have key items like "torch" and "sheers" or some shit."

If a 12 year old can think of better options, so could they

[Anonymous No.5747105]

>no ice beam, flamethrower and thunderbolt tms
>instead we get a mud-slap tm

[Anonymous No.5747146]

>>5747105
>someone thought Fury Cutter was a good enough for the only Bug move TM.

[Anonymous No.5747184]

>>5747103
Because the game is about relying on the Pokemon, but yeah HMs are one of the worst ideas to ever grace gaming and their removal in SM was one of the greatest ideas the series ever had.

[Anonymous No.5747201]

>>5740942
By then the franchise had made it big so they became able to rely entirely for a while on the hype surrounding the then new series of Pokemon.

[Anonymous No.5747207]

>>5740942
Also it was the first color title in the series.

[Anonymous No.5747219]

>>5747105
>evolved my porygon
>forgot to trade to blue, teach these TMs and trade back

[Anonymous No.5747620]

>>5741076
And good waifubait at that. Those are the best girls from their respective games. Is that official art?

[Anonymous No.5747638]

>>5740942
>more 'mons to catch
>type rebalancing
>twice the gyms
>can revisit (a more limited version of) the area from the first game
>more interesting music with better use of the waveform channel (though some Kanto remixes suffer due to the need to be different and fixing thing that weren't broken)
>nicer graphics, even if I like the wonky sprite artstyle from the first games
Honestly I consider them a step up in most regards. I do think they had a few things that ended up becoming major problems in later entries in the series, like dragging the player away to go deal with the villains instead of dealing with the villains being incidental while on your journey, but out of that wider context and just within the game itself it's not a problem.

[Anonymous No.5747640]

best gym battle theme

[Anonymous No.5747648]

>>5740969
>some choice Pokemon of their type can't be evolved because they don't make evolutionary stones available in the game outside of some really contrived random shit
Definitely a major problem in GS. Mitigated in Crystal but you have to know how to cheese the game to really fix the issue (there's an NPC who gives you their phone number who will call you and give you stones; if they're the only phone number in your phonebook, they will call you much more frequently than intended and you can have all the stones you need on hand).
>made the HM problem somehow far worse than the first game, making you have to constantly use someone with cut and flash over and over and over even though the moves are useless
I don't remember any areas that require Cut other than Ilex Forest and probably something in Kanto, and the only mandatory area where you need Flash to brighten up the cave is Victory Road. I think there are more mandatory Cut trees in RBY than GSC, usually Cut is just used for a shortcut or optional area in GSC while Cut is thrown about in places like Fuschia City long after you've gotten the HM.

[Anonymous No.5747662]

>>5741029
>wanting to go to /vp/
I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. If they aren't genwarring or bitching about the (admittedly terrible) upcoming game they're posting furry/loli threads.

[Anonymous No.5747676]

>>5747648
>optional
Is anything really optional if you want to fully experience the game though, some games are fun for just speed running but Pokemon is not one of them considering it isn't much of a skill based game at least not as a single player game, it's more just about exploring the world and immersion

[Anonymous No.5747682]

>>5747676
Well in my opinion, the problem isn't really there because it's optional. You can go through an area for the first time, see a Cut tree is there, keep going, and then after you've found a few on them on different maps you can go back and explore them all. Same with Flash, except since it's large areas that they affect, you can just bring it when you plan to go through it all at once.

[Anonymous No.5747916]

>>5740961
No you fucking retard, the whole franchise was the most casual shit to ever exist from the moment it crash bombed into japanese stores

[Anonymous No.5747975]

>>5740961
fpbp